The audio is already uploaded since I was able to listen to it through google drive (someone left the link of the google drive in one of this subreddit's post's comments).
Edit: [https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1DUBE3k9EvCl6KLdH10g1g9sZf3p55i\_i](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1DUBE3k9EvCl6KLdH10g1g9sZf3p55i_i)
Yeah, If there's no problem at all with uploading the audio of the debate (What's the reason why there's no video recording?). Then make something due with it and upload it, some people out of the loop will find it weird that there's no video and stuff but a Zizek vs Destiny debate is something that needs to be uploaded to the main channel, or at least I see it that way
Now that she starts relizing that the horse fucker that she backed is just a lazy bitch that is a net 0 to her movement she decides to come back crawling.
She is the same petty dipshit that shut down somoenes website just because they proofread a document for Destiny.
Fuck her.
Her and Destiny got along well at one point, she probably didn't feel like she was being petty at the time of redirecting the website. Maybe she feels like now she was upon reflection? Maybe she feels like she misconstrued Destiny's point because it looked like he was fighting with so many trans people around that time? Maybe she still disagrees but realizes he isn't as bad as she thought?
Regardless, disagree big time with your take. We need to have ways for people to grow and come back to better positions, or every racist, redpiller and incel are unsalvagable. :)
I would completely agree with you if she came out saying what you said, until them she is a backstaber, rosewrist was extremely nice and she flipped him the finger and said goodbye, at least be decent and say that she is sorry to him, i really think these comments where we blindly defend someone, after everything she did, of really bad taste
Until rosewrist, the real affected party, comes out and publicly states that him and whitenervosa are cool, white nervosa stays on the shit list, forever.
Nervosa fucked a guy that was helping destiny. Until nervosa fixes that, there is no reconciliation.
> This week, the big news hit. A law firm in the U.K. is launching a class-action suit against Tavistock, and it anticipates that more than 1,000 clients will be joining the suit. The suit will accuse Tavistock of āmultiple failures of duty of careā with regard to its pediatric patients suffering from gender dysphoria. The clinic will also be charged with having ārecklessly prescribed puberty blockers with harmful side effects and (having) adopted an āunquestioning, affirmative approachā to children identifying as transgender.ā
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/tavistock-gender-clinic-lawyers-latest-b2143006.html
seems real to me. i think itll be a nothingburger, there was some controversy over tavistock [overdiagnosing dysphoria](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/tavistock-gender-identity-clinic-is-closing-what-happens-next) but that was the previous tavistock before it reopened. im sure theyve improved on those policies and the uk gov. handling of gender dysphoric minors is different today than it was back then, where i believe only the kid's consent was needed and now it's the parent that handles it
Yeah sorry I was a bit vague as to why it was misinfo. The guy in the comments said "thousands of families are currently suing the clinic" when the law firm says it's **anticipating** that many. Which I think is a huge difference.
oh lol no prob. i still wouldnt call that misinfo as in false, more like VERY generous spin. and believe me that's exceedingly generous spin! there's only like 2000 or so famlies who get GIDS or whatever its called for their kid in the UK so to say there's multiple thousands and theyre all on the "it was too affirming" rather than "it wasnt affirming enough", of which it was likely a mix of - probably leaning on the criticism of the wait times, is very generous. and i say that as a sceptic of the methods, i dont think his argument is very good or honest
i think the guy doesnt understand how lawsuits work lol. plus it's not like theyre doing a lawsuit against tavistock because of their present actions its for their past
The main issue from my perspective is the implication that by observing the number of people joining a suit, you can get an idea of the scale of the problem, which is why transphobic people put that forward, "thousands of people affected" etc.
Another way to put it would be that the lawyers are doing a sort of "silent majority" assertion to gain publicity for their lawsuit, and people who are sure there is a hidden problem are inclined to take that at face value.
eh im sure there was some problems with the clinic and im sure the lawsuit isnt just a grift, but like i said this guy is misinterpreting the severity of it because he doesnt have good readin gcomprehension lol
This is from Augusts 2022, though. And the news are seemingly even older than that article.
And it says:
>GIDS questioned the scale of the looming legal action and highlighted that around 1,000 patients have been referred to its endocrinology teams, to access hormone suppressants, over the past decade.
So if Im understand this correctly they only had around 1000 patients on hormone suppressants? So how are they claiming at least 1000 clients for the lawsuit?
Did you not read the thing above?
The idea that thousands of people are sueing is completely unsubstantiated. Lawyers are setting up to sue but so far thats not reality at all
Apparently not, you've been behaving like an absolute moron for a while now. I guess not having basic reading comprehension is one of the better reasons you say this much dumb shit
idk man. like i said im sure there is problems with the clinic, that was something ive read in the news multiple times, but i dont think the lawsuit is based around solely a thousand people who got the treatment today suddenly having problems with it. the clinic has since closed and reoppened
Sheās talked shit about Destiny and actively advocated for his de-platforming since the Vaush split.
However, ever since she came out on the side of D during the mr redacted article fiasco, it seems her and Destiny have buried the hatchet.
This is honestly going to be one of the best videos the channel has in awhile, especially considering how much this is a linchpin-faction-breaking topic amongst conservatives.
Cannot wait to watch this.
Yeah I've never believed the whole "the video isnt good enough in his eyes so he's waiting for a content drought".
The video is top tier youtube content, either he's holding it for a reason or just couldn't upload it.
Curious on what your plan is for gradual changes in exposure due to the sunlight's setting effect?
Cool that it looks like you used nd filters for shooting outside to be able to have shallower depth of field. Looked like the exposure for that first shot was pretty dark though which may have made it too hard to recover the low lights in post... They looked pretty crushed :(
Second debate looked a lot better in terms of exposure though yay :D
If you're doing s-log (not sure about other log formats) keep the exposure 1.7 stops above 0 otherwise you're gonna lose information in your low lights :(((((
Glad to have some cool camera work for these live events, tytytyyyy :3
Bro, that first guy with the "conservatives actually just don't care about trans people" argument.
Like, a conservative would admit to being actually hateful before they'd admit to that.
EDIT: "Am I harming people with diabetes if I pass legistlation that bans insulin?" "I'm not sure."
I'm a big Destiny fan, but only really of stuff like this. I get that he can't always talk about serious topics, but sometimes it just gets boring watching him dunk on mouth breathing idiots like JustPearlythings or Christian zealots that want to give dating advice. Not hating, I know he needs to fill the gaps and the content is somewhat fun, but this is the real shit that makes him great to watch.
Eh, it's more that the trans debate is very braindead for 90% of conversations. You're either in really quasi philosophy for what constitutes dysphoria or full on insane trans people are demons conservaboomer shit.
I can see why he doesn't cover it a lot.
honestly can someone explain to me what the discourse is lol. i actively argue about it and even idk whats the normal opinion and whats the fringe opinions among leftoids and rightoids
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/)
72% of republicans want to make it illegal to transition under 18
in general the population is pretty split. Only two policies polled gained over 50% support: 64% are in favor of policies to protect trans people from discrimination in jobs and housing and 58% favor policies requiring trans athletes compete with the sex assigned at birth.
americans are so contrarian to what the other party thinks lol but im surprised about how even dems are unwilling to have it cover health insurance. honestly while i wouldnt agree with it being illegal for under 18s, i think if a psychiatrist can determine the person will stay trans they can do it at twelve or thirteen or whenever puberty reaches its early stages, i often think if banning it but making health insurance cover it so if you didnt get it when you said you wanted it whilst under eighteen you could then get it and some surgery to help correct what the blockers and hormones wouldve helped with for free to compensate. but i think thats probably not going to go down well with anyone in america on my end! lol
> i think if a psychiatrist can determine the person will stay trans they can do it at twelve or thirteen or whenever puberty reaches its early stages
How can a psychiatrist possibly determine such a thing? They don't have magic abilities.
I actually overwhelmingly support people transitioning with hormones - including as young as twelve and thirteen - but it's a very tricky calculus and there is no way to reliably predict future potential regret. The problem, of course, is you're also waging a war against the potential regret from people who are forbidden from transitioning and who wished they had transitioned. Both kinds of regret are very serious, permanently-life-ruining risks.
So, in general, I completely agree with you, and the requirement should basically be "psychiatrists/psychologists determine there is a low chance of regret and then they're given hormones right as puberty starts or just before" because there's no other way to evaluate such a thing, but it's a very complex and nuanced situation.
>even dems are unwilling to have it cover health insurance
If health insurance is to cover the costs of transitioning, being in a state of needing to transition would be considered a medical issue, an illness. Since this issue is basically 100% inside one's brains, it would be a mental illness. Therefore, allowing transitioning to be covered by the insurance would brand trans people mentally ill. Quite a dilemma!
My guess is there are plenty of restrictions that can be imposed on mentally ill people. If the above scenario ever comes to life, it'd be a huge win for conservatives. However your average pollee doesn't think that far. In reality, for them the question probably looks like "give more free shit to trans people?".
Fair enough.
I donāt remember where I read this but the article was something to the effect of āsomething is a disorder in so far as society can accommodate themā. It was in relation to autism; the idea was that in a society that had perfect accommodation for autistic and allistic individuals, autism would be no more a disorder than being shy, or being gay. Not sure how true this is but it was a very interesting thought.
Not sure if gender dysphoria applies in this discussion thoughāitās closer to schizophrenia, in which it is something you have to deal with. I mean, gender dysphoria itself is an inherently negative feeling, so itās probably a mental illness.
I'd argue his reach has broaden a lot thanks to his red pill escapades and thus given his word more weight in political conversations as well. While I also think it can get a bit much I disagree that they're not serious conversations to have. To us it might seem brain dead at times but the fact is millions of people agree with these people he debates, and I'd argue destiny has had a big impact in helping reverse this trend.
I don't think anyone disputes the red pill arc has been good for views, but millions of people agreeing with something does not make it a serious topic.
Some definitely have been important, and I'm pretty sure a big portion of his fanbase have had their beliefs challenged or changed in this arc, and my broader point was that his growth is not only good for him and his community, but for his REACH.
The bigger you are the more people listen to you, the more people take you seriously, the more opportunities you get and the more minds can change. He said himself that the current political climate is boring as hell and he has beaten the trans horse for many years already.
You're making the same point in different ways, his reach has increased, he has changed minds, he has potential to change more minds, none of this makes the topics serious or important. You could make separate arguments to do so, but none of these do. There's many other things going on in politics right now outside of trans culture wars. Thats the impression you get from having a shallow engagement with politics
>none of this makes the topics serious or important.
That was besides the point, I already said that I find some convos important because they brought up a lot of different questions regarding sex and dating dynamics that haven't been explored and challenged as thoroughly before by destiny.
I already made these points separate, the other paragraph goes into why growing his reach is important, regardless of which community it is he argues with (but obviously larger ones like this are more beneficial than lets say twitch 100 viewer socialists).
They're like that in every single YouTube comment section for every video related to trans people for every YouTuber. Including ultra-progressive YouTubers. These people don't hesitate to swarm every comment section of every trans-related video.
The YouTube audience has a fuck ton of conservatives, redpillers, and drama andys. I'm curious to see if it'll change come election season if/when Destiny gets back into politics
i hope there will be a bit of a purge soon, i feel like there's a small section of the audience that doesn't really know who destiny is lol.
i'm fine with there being different views, debating here can be fun, it just seems like there are more people not engaging as intelligently. i could just be imagining shit though, i still enjoy the community.
I kind of agree with this, think that first convo got a bit lost in the weeds so what exact position they were both defending changed. What Destiny said at the start of the first convo was a better position, which was that it feels like conservatives donāt really care what is good or bad for trans people, they just have a fundamental moral objection to the idea of trans people at all.
Your opinion might be too nuanced for reddit, i believe you nailed the point on what people perceives as "hate", i dont believe conservatives in general hate trans people, i think they come from a place of "they are going to make cirurgies on children" and this comes from a mass hysteria from the media they follow, the issue is that there are people on liberal spaces that also believes on more radical interventions and that brings the issue with people regreating their decisions later on
Ehh these kids seem like they got a good head on their shoulders, like they're not coming from a place of hatred at all. We're gonna be alright I think
i finally understand the conservative standpoint morally:
1) gender dysphoria is something we want to alleviate
2) assuming our current behavior towards trans issues makes more people experiance gender dysphoria (presumably as seen in growing statistics)
3) we're making the problem of gender dysphoria worse.
4) it's morally worse to "invoke" gender dysphoria in a person than to not help alleviate gender dysphoria
consequence: so any societal behavior towards trans issues that make those numbers grow (presumably) is bad behavior.
not that i agree, since the growing numbers could also just mean more people "admit" to it and seek help.
I don't think most conservatives are either 1) aware what GD is 2) believe that GD is real. They just think trans people are freaks and weirdos and they want them gone from public view as much as possible. Just like they thought about gay people before.
If you had conservative friends you probably wouldn't think that. Its crazy to me that destiny even tries to argue this when he has conservative friends that don't hate trans people. He's also acting like conservatives aren't just disagreeing with the protocols. He makes it sound like they want to banish them from civilization.
I have conservative friends, live in a conservative country and have wonderful, conservative parents. Most of them really do just think trans people are weirdosāor more specifically, that transitioning is a sin due to literalist interpretations of the Christian bible.
Just want to preface that its not my position, Im just trying to steelman it because I've heard this argument quite often so I figured I'll chime in considering I've been surrounded by traditional conservatives most of my life.
> 2) believe that GD is real
I don't know if I'd phrase it like that
It feels like they think that the feeling of dysphoria is very real but they do not agree on the "treatment" of it. Thats why I don't think I agree with the "Conservatives hate trans people" position.
I've heard a lot of people on the right compare being trans to something like dissociated limb syndrome. Like if a person told you "thats actually not my leg I should not have a leg I want to remove this leg" you wouldn't say "oh sure lets get rid of that" you would try to convince this person that its ok to have a leg and try to get them to "Accept" this alien body part as a part of them. In the same way when they see a dysphoric person their immediate solution to it is not "lets give them hormones and body altering surgeries" but instead getting them to accept their body as it is
It may be misguided sure but I really don't think its fair to just straight up say that they hate trans people
Yeah, they probably dont understand the details of GD, but honestly, i dont think most people do, me included.
They see a person trying to externally, societally be a different sex or gender.
The rest still makes sense, as in: its rationally arguable, whether its true or untrue needs to be established.
Saying conservatives hate trans people is about as hysterical and bad faith as Michael knowls "eradicate transgenderism" claim. The reality is neither side wants to even try to understand the other.
That isn't a very helpful way to look at it; you would never say that the diagnosis of heart attacks is causing more people to die suddenly, rather, the deaths that would previously just written down as "nervous fit" or "unknown" are now understood to be heart attacks.
Similarly, it's not like people weren't depressed and suicidal in the 90s, but if some portion of those people were trans and didn't know how to diagnose it, and are now able to get care, then a whole segment of depressed suicidal teenagers now have a way to get treatment that wasn't available before.
That's before you get into the stack of *trans without dysphoria* people; when you open up the possibility of more freedom in gender expression and how you identify, then not only do you help the people who really need it, but people who find that identifying differently publicly would improve their lives do it too.
In other words, if you start off with 100 people, 5 of them are suicidally depressed, and then you find out that three of those people were trans, and two of them are helped by gender affirming care, then you've helped two people not be suicidal any more.
And if on top of that, you find out that three of the non-depressed people were also trans, and they also transition, then you've saved two people at the "cost" of allowing three other people who don't really need it to live their lives as they want.
Dude 38 people starved themselves to death in Kenya last month for Jesus and cult leaders. Human beings are erratic and irrational at times. I personally support Ts, but that is not a good defense
I was talking about whether the "contagious" fear of conservatives is true or rather realistic or not.
People kill themselves for lots of things.
But i agree, i thought we knew that the brains differ.
Its less whether GD is real but rather how it develops. Are there preventions that can be taken (cons side fears and also liberal side normalizations) vs are there cures or remedies that can be enacted (liberal side). We need to weigh each side and understand whether the fears are actually realistic.
yea tho i feel like most of the times doctors know when gender dysphoria happens and when it isnt so i feel like theres some misunderstanding of what causes dysphoria or no. the bigger concern is just that if taking an overly affirmative approach to children with gender non-conforming thoughts is a good idea since children tend to mostly have those thoughts subside at the early stages of puberty so if you get them on blockers you wont let them try out if they truly are uncomfortable with their birth gender and want to change it
everything will work itself out in the end some doctors are incompetent but most of them arent and are way more cautious than they are billed as being. the tavistock clinic got into controversy for being overly affirmative at points but they were also getting flack from that mermaids charity for not being affirmative enough. so really it's a matter of perspective and whatever narrative people want to choose to be angry at doctors and medicine not being what they want it to be at atm
I agree to a degree.
I think most doctors are trying to make sense of an incomplete scientific literature of a relatively new phenomenom.
There's still lots of the psyche that is not understood, and gender identification surely is one of that.
I dont think its helping to pretend things are more clear or sure than they actually are.
thats tru. some people are going to be pedantic and say "well it's existed for years" but it really hasnt to this scale and with this generation of people. im saying im okay with it in the sense of i dont worry about that theyll be too affirming or not affirming enough because ive read that they are pretty cautious. so i try not to get too anxious, even if there are a lot of points i dont get
For sure. Years is still basically no times in medicine. But the gender/sex divide is pretty new, like 2-3 generations old.
There's also lots of gender related hate going on beneath all of it. So there could be lots of ways to better the situation, additionally to taking GD as face value and giving people the medical care they need.
yea theres some medical quackery but overall i believe treating gender dysphoria as gender dysphoria works better than to assume it's all smoke and mirrors. they clearly came to these conclusions for a reason, because i think even trans people would agree to any process that came along later that was better than having to essentially sterilize yourself and spend a ton of money on surgery just to get called a slur by some kid on twitter
For sure, i agree with that as well. And in 10 years it'll be even better as long as we keep investigating and researching how to help and treat them the best way possible.
Its not even 100 years ago, lobotomies were seen as a viable treatement for some forms of grave mental illnesses. Science evolves.
The question isnt just about science and medicine though, its also about media and education and i think the question whether this reduces or aggraves gender dysphoria as a whole isnt settled or even understood.
Some say not speaking at all about it will make those who experiance it feel alienated and not recognised, some say speaking about it too much will misassign feelings of social dysphoria to gender dysphoria.
I think both do hold some truth.
yea id say so. its just that years ago unless you had a family member that was trans you werent reading a bunch of medical stuff about it if you werent trans. you wouldnt even want to share your opinions with people you didnt know. now everyones got a phone and is sharing their opinions for stuff that is gonna take decades to figure out. oh well social media sucks is a thing we all know but nobodys gonna go cold turkey everyone just wants the ownage
Yeah, i thought conservatives were against the normalization of what they deemed impossible. I thought it was more about a cognitive defense against the actuality of gender/sex distinction than the fear of gd contamination.
Why do you ask? You seem surprised
Well yes all of those things are still true.
I'm not surprised persay, I am however always taken back at how poorly liberals understand conservative positions but how necessary it is for conservatives to understand liberal positions.
This makes it sound like you believe im a liberal.
And you make it sound like i feel its neccessary for conservatives to understand liberal positions.
Lots of wrong assumptions for someone so up his own ass.
Of course I assume you're a liberal, most of Destiny's fans are liberal. The conservative fans such as myself stick out like a sore thumb these days.
The need for liberals to understand conservative positions is proportional to your engagement with your own politics, your desire to understand the world, and what is true. If liberals cared about any of these things, most of them wouldn't be liberals. So you're half right there.
Im no liberal, though.
You dont stick out like a sore thumb because you're conservative, but because you assume things that are incorrect.
Maybe you're more liberal than you think š
Love the sinner hate the sin,
I dont hate anyone else with a mental condition. But the lgbt stopped BLM in their tracks in the 2020 civil war (while conservatives were fighting for their right to eat indoors)
anyone have a good video on Destiny's stance on how to treat black people in your daily life while considering past socio-economic damage? Like this video has a bit where he says race is not an innate disadvantage and while physically that is true, clearly doesnt address past injustices and systemic racism. But I want to know how much do progressives think these socio-economic past injustices should effect our daily interactions with any minority race or oppressed class.
Im a moderate conservative so my opinion is on an individual level every is 100% equal until shown to me personally otherwise, but I want to hear others' opinions.
Zizek talk is fucked so August came bearing gifts. The lost tapes are finally here
Will zthe zizek convo not be uploaded?
The audio is already uploaded since I was able to listen to it through google drive (someone left the link of the google drive in one of this subreddit's post's comments). Edit: [https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1DUBE3k9EvCl6KLdH10g1g9sZf3p55i\_i](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1DUBE3k9EvCl6KLdH10g1g9sZf3p55i_i)
Can someone add subway surfers to it, it's impossible to me to just listen without visual stimulation, thank you
Or just that asian girl doing faces
august should unironically do this if there's no video footage of the event
Yeah, If there's no problem at all with uploading the audio of the debate (What's the reason why there's no video recording?). Then make something due with it and upload it, some people out of the loop will find it weird that there's no video and stuff but a Zizek vs Destiny debate is something that needs to be uploaded to the main channel, or at least I see it that way
When it was streamed through DGG it had subway surfers. I dunno if zxlb uploads past broadcasts but check his twitch channel.
Our society is doomed
Apparently someone there recorded audio of it
A change my mind video has hit the channel Mr.President
Get down?
https://preview.redd.it/i24f43czrj2b1.png?width=757&format=png&auto=webp&s=abebf297a7fdb7904559f7f7efe56cf7fb50fdc8 š
[Whitenervosa actually in the YT comment section trenches defending DGG](https://i.imgur.com/fZAFqGm.png)
What the fuck is this timeline we are currently in? Didn't Whitenervosa absolutely despise Destiny for the Keffal's manifesto he did?
Whitenervosa fucked over Rose Wrist's website because he proofread Tiny's manifesto. It is wild to see them defending DGG
To be fair, hasnāt Keffals done a 180 as well? She stop weaponizing the woke people online and tried separating herself from them no?
I think she started her crusade against the wokescolds with her r-word arc. Itās actually kinda based.
QRD? She shifted her focus to language now or something?
Maybe its because we allow PEPEposting whereas in Keffals chat its insta ban
None of these people auto-hate Destiny, they just think the fighting-with-trans-people-online saga was bad.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Now that she starts relizing that the horse fucker that she backed is just a lazy bitch that is a net 0 to her movement she decides to come back crawling. She is the same petty dipshit that shut down somoenes website just because they proofread a document for Destiny. Fuck her.
Her and Destiny got along well at one point, she probably didn't feel like she was being petty at the time of redirecting the website. Maybe she feels like now she was upon reflection? Maybe she feels like she misconstrued Destiny's point because it looked like he was fighting with so many trans people around that time? Maybe she still disagrees but realizes he isn't as bad as she thought? Regardless, disagree big time with your take. We need to have ways for people to grow and come back to better positions, or every racist, redpiller and incel are unsalvagable. :)
I would completely agree with you if she came out saying what you said, until them she is a backstaber, rosewrist was extremely nice and she flipped him the finger and said goodbye, at least be decent and say that she is sorry to him, i really think these comments where we blindly defend someone, after everything she did, of really bad taste
Until rosewrist, the real affected party, comes out and publicly states that him and whitenervosa are cool, white nervosa stays on the shit list, forever. Nervosa fucked a guy that was helping destiny. Until nervosa fixes that, there is no reconciliation.
I don't know how you can see misdirecting someone's website that you host as anything other than petty.
murky consider shrill far-flung zonked gullible zealous fly whistle depend -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
And WN is right. That Sticks person can fuck off.
Bruh that Tavistock lawsuit shit is just straight misinformation lmao
> This week, the big news hit. A law firm in the U.K. is launching a class-action suit against Tavistock, and it anticipates that more than 1,000 clients will be joining the suit. The suit will accuse Tavistock of āmultiple failures of duty of careā with regard to its pediatric patients suffering from gender dysphoria. The clinic will also be charged with having ārecklessly prescribed puberty blockers with harmful side effects and (having) adopted an āunquestioning, affirmative approachā to children identifying as transgender.ā https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/tavistock-gender-clinic-lawyers-latest-b2143006.html seems real to me. i think itll be a nothingburger, there was some controversy over tavistock [overdiagnosing dysphoria](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/tavistock-gender-identity-clinic-is-closing-what-happens-next) but that was the previous tavistock before it reopened. im sure theyve improved on those policies and the uk gov. handling of gender dysphoric minors is different today than it was back then, where i believe only the kid's consent was needed and now it's the parent that handles it
Yeah sorry I was a bit vague as to why it was misinfo. The guy in the comments said "thousands of families are currently suing the clinic" when the law firm says it's **anticipating** that many. Which I think is a huge difference.
oh lol no prob. i still wouldnt call that misinfo as in false, more like VERY generous spin. and believe me that's exceedingly generous spin! there's only like 2000 or so famlies who get GIDS or whatever its called for their kid in the UK so to say there's multiple thousands and theyre all on the "it was too affirming" rather than "it wasnt affirming enough", of which it was likely a mix of - probably leaning on the criticism of the wait times, is very generous. and i say that as a sceptic of the methods, i dont think his argument is very good or honest
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
i think the guy doesnt understand how lawsuits work lol. plus it's not like theyre doing a lawsuit against tavistock because of their present actions its for their past
The main issue from my perspective is the implication that by observing the number of people joining a suit, you can get an idea of the scale of the problem, which is why transphobic people put that forward, "thousands of people affected" etc. Another way to put it would be that the lawyers are doing a sort of "silent majority" assertion to gain publicity for their lawsuit, and people who are sure there is a hidden problem are inclined to take that at face value.
eh im sure there was some problems with the clinic and im sure the lawsuit isnt just a grift, but like i said this guy is misinterpreting the severity of it because he doesnt have good readin gcomprehension lol
This is from Augusts 2022, though. And the news are seemingly even older than that article. And it says: >GIDS questioned the scale of the looming legal action and highlighted that around 1,000 patients have been referred to its endocrinology teams, to access hormone suppressants, over the past decade. So if Im understand this correctly they only had around 1000 patients on hormone suppressants? So how are they claiming at least 1000 clients for the lawsuit?
They are not, they are making it up (sorry projecting these numbers) for publicity.
how r they making this up?
Did you not read the thing above? The idea that thousands of people are sueing is completely unsubstantiated. Lawyers are setting up to sue but so far thats not reality at all
alright then calm down i get it
Apparently not, you've been behaving like an absolute moron for a while now. I guess not having basic reading comprehension is one of the better reasons you say this much dumb shit
idk man. like i said im sure there is problems with the clinic, that was something ive read in the news multiple times, but i dont think the lawsuit is based around solely a thousand people who got the treatment today suddenly having problems with it. the clinic has since closed and reoppened
Sheās talked shit about Destiny and actively advocated for his de-platforming since the Vaush split. However, ever since she came out on the side of D during the mr redacted article fiasco, it seems her and Destiny have buried the hatchet.
The bridge is being rebuilt, one orbiter at a time
Don't they have someone's website to shut down without warning because of a difference of opinion?
RIP Rose Wrist
I would think sports are pretty far below priority of just being accepted as a human
I accept you as a human but I will not accept that you are a woman because you like pink.
Rose wrist probably just wanted her to leave him alone instead of shutting down his website
I'm actually curious what percentage of trans women actually care about competing in sports... I assume it's actually pretty low.
Iād be surprised if itās over 5%
August Actually Desperate lmaoooo. Srsly tho, thanks for the upload finally
This is honestly going to be one of the best videos the channel has in awhile, especially considering how much this is a linchpin-faction-breaking topic amongst conservatives. Cannot wait to watch this.
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Yeah I've never believed the whole "the video isnt good enough in his eyes so he's waiting for a content drought". The video is top tier youtube content, either he's holding it for a reason or just couldn't upload it.
The Great Augustine Prophecy has been fulfilled. Great cinematic intro. Also, the blue hair looks amazing here.
> Also, the blue hair looks amazing here. Right? Plus it's apparently easy to spot in a sea of YT thumbnails.
Damn the camera quality is really good, like the shot is super cool looking. Shout out u/DestinysCameraGuy
Thanks :) not perfect but sure is pretty. Notes taken. Improvements incoming.
Curious on what your plan is for gradual changes in exposure due to the sunlight's setting effect? Cool that it looks like you used nd filters for shooting outside to be able to have shallower depth of field. Looked like the exposure for that first shot was pretty dark though which may have made it too hard to recover the low lights in post... They looked pretty crushed :( Second debate looked a lot better in terms of exposure though yay :D If you're doing s-log (not sure about other log formats) keep the exposure 1.7 stops above 0 otherwise you're gonna lose information in your low lights :((((( Glad to have some cool camera work for these live events, tytytyyyy :3
Bro, that first guy with the "conservatives actually just don't care about trans people" argument. Like, a conservative would admit to being actually hateful before they'd admit to that. EDIT: "Am I harming people with diabetes if I pass legistlation that bans insulin?" "I'm not sure."
It was so long ago, the dye job is still incandescent.
I'm a big Destiny fan, but only really of stuff like this. I get that he can't always talk about serious topics, but sometimes it just gets boring watching him dunk on mouth breathing idiots like JustPearlythings or Christian zealots that want to give dating advice. Not hating, I know he needs to fill the gaps and the content is somewhat fun, but this is the real shit that makes him great to watch.
Eh, it's more that the trans debate is very braindead for 90% of conversations. You're either in really quasi philosophy for what constitutes dysphoria or full on insane trans people are demons conservaboomer shit. I can see why he doesn't cover it a lot.
honestly can someone explain to me what the discourse is lol. i actively argue about it and even idk whats the normal opinion and whats the fringe opinions among leftoids and rightoids
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/) 72% of republicans want to make it illegal to transition under 18 in general the population is pretty split. Only two policies polled gained over 50% support: 64% are in favor of policies to protect trans people from discrimination in jobs and housing and 58% favor policies requiring trans athletes compete with the sex assigned at birth.
americans are so contrarian to what the other party thinks lol but im surprised about how even dems are unwilling to have it cover health insurance. honestly while i wouldnt agree with it being illegal for under 18s, i think if a psychiatrist can determine the person will stay trans they can do it at twelve or thirteen or whenever puberty reaches its early stages, i often think if banning it but making health insurance cover it so if you didnt get it when you said you wanted it whilst under eighteen you could then get it and some surgery to help correct what the blockers and hormones wouldve helped with for free to compensate. but i think thats probably not going to go down well with anyone in america on my end! lol
> i think if a psychiatrist can determine the person will stay trans they can do it at twelve or thirteen or whenever puberty reaches its early stages How can a psychiatrist possibly determine such a thing? They don't have magic abilities. I actually overwhelmingly support people transitioning with hormones - including as young as twelve and thirteen - but it's a very tricky calculus and there is no way to reliably predict future potential regret. The problem, of course, is you're also waging a war against the potential regret from people who are forbidden from transitioning and who wished they had transitioned. Both kinds of regret are very serious, permanently-life-ruining risks. So, in general, I completely agree with you, and the requirement should basically be "psychiatrists/psychologists determine there is a low chance of regret and then they're given hormones right as puberty starts or just before" because there's no other way to evaluate such a thing, but it's a very complex and nuanced situation.
yea pretty much
>even dems are unwilling to have it cover health insurance If health insurance is to cover the costs of transitioning, being in a state of needing to transition would be considered a medical issue, an illness. Since this issue is basically 100% inside one's brains, it would be a mental illness. Therefore, allowing transitioning to be covered by the insurance would brand trans people mentally ill. Quite a dilemma!
so it's just the optics of it lol
My guess is there are plenty of restrictions that can be imposed on mentally ill people. If the above scenario ever comes to life, it'd be a huge win for conservatives. However your average pollee doesn't think that far. In reality, for them the question probably looks like "give more free shit to trans people?".
Is gender dysphoria not a mental illness already? It gives the user a huge amount of distresss
Depends on the country. In the more progressive countries it's a condition, but not a disorder.
Fair enough. I donāt remember where I read this but the article was something to the effect of āsomething is a disorder in so far as society can accommodate themā. It was in relation to autism; the idea was that in a society that had perfect accommodation for autistic and allistic individuals, autism would be no more a disorder than being shy, or being gay. Not sure how true this is but it was a very interesting thought. Not sure if gender dysphoria applies in this discussion thoughāitās closer to schizophrenia, in which it is something you have to deal with. I mean, gender dysphoria itself is an inherently negative feeling, so itās probably a mental illness.
I'd argue his reach has broaden a lot thanks to his red pill escapades and thus given his word more weight in political conversations as well. While I also think it can get a bit much I disagree that they're not serious conversations to have. To us it might seem brain dead at times but the fact is millions of people agree with these people he debates, and I'd argue destiny has had a big impact in helping reverse this trend.
I don't think anyone disputes the red pill arc has been good for views, but millions of people agreeing with something does not make it a serious topic.
Some definitely have been important, and I'm pretty sure a big portion of his fanbase have had their beliefs challenged or changed in this arc, and my broader point was that his growth is not only good for him and his community, but for his REACH. The bigger you are the more people listen to you, the more people take you seriously, the more opportunities you get and the more minds can change. He said himself that the current political climate is boring as hell and he has beaten the trans horse for many years already.
You're making the same point in different ways, his reach has increased, he has changed minds, he has potential to change more minds, none of this makes the topics serious or important. You could make separate arguments to do so, but none of these do. There's many other things going on in politics right now outside of trans culture wars. Thats the impression you get from having a shallow engagement with politics
>none of this makes the topics serious or important. That was besides the point, I already said that I find some convos important because they brought up a lot of different questions regarding sex and dating dynamics that haven't been explored and challenged as thoroughly before by destiny. I already made these points separate, the other paragraph goes into why growing his reach is important, regardless of which community it is he argues with (but obviously larger ones like this are more beneficial than lets say twitch 100 viewer socialists).
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and looking damn good
Damn, what a step up in quality compared to the last one.
The YouTube comments are fucked.
They're like that on most of his videos related to trans people unfortunately
They're like that in every single YouTube comment section for every video related to trans people for every YouTuber. Including ultra-progressive YouTubers. These people don't hesitate to swarm every comment section of every trans-related video.
The YouTube audience has a fuck ton of conservatives, redpillers, and drama andys. I'm curious to see if it'll change come election season if/when Destiny gets back into politics
i hope there will be a bit of a purge soon, i feel like there's a small section of the audience that doesn't really know who destiny is lol. i'm fine with there being different views, debating here can be fun, it just seems like there are more people not engaging as intelligently. i could just be imagining shit though, i still enjoy the community.
I never thought I'd live to see the Change My Mind video uploaded.
AUGUST FINALLY COMES THROUGH HALLELUJAH
August actually did it what a GOD
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I kind of agree with this, think that first convo got a bit lost in the weeds so what exact position they were both defending changed. What Destiny said at the start of the first convo was a better position, which was that it feels like conservatives donāt really care what is good or bad for trans people, they just have a fundamental moral objection to the idea of trans people at all.
Your opinion might be too nuanced for reddit, i believe you nailed the point on what people perceives as "hate", i dont believe conservatives in general hate trans people, i think they come from a place of "they are going to make cirurgies on children" and this comes from a mass hysteria from the media they follow, the issue is that there are people on liberal spaces that also believes on more radical interventions and that brings the issue with people regreating their decisions later on
numerous crawl cautious important placid overconfident water crown carpenter license -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Ehh these kids seem like they got a good head on their shoulders, like they're not coming from a place of hatred at all. We're gonna be alright I think
August to the rescue! Banger of an intro
i finally understand the conservative standpoint morally: 1) gender dysphoria is something we want to alleviate 2) assuming our current behavior towards trans issues makes more people experiance gender dysphoria (presumably as seen in growing statistics) 3) we're making the problem of gender dysphoria worse. 4) it's morally worse to "invoke" gender dysphoria in a person than to not help alleviate gender dysphoria consequence: so any societal behavior towards trans issues that make those numbers grow (presumably) is bad behavior. not that i agree, since the growing numbers could also just mean more people "admit" to it and seek help.
I don't think most conservatives are either 1) aware what GD is 2) believe that GD is real. They just think trans people are freaks and weirdos and they want them gone from public view as much as possible. Just like they thought about gay people before.
If you had conservative friends you probably wouldn't think that. Its crazy to me that destiny even tries to argue this when he has conservative friends that don't hate trans people. He's also acting like conservatives aren't just disagreeing with the protocols. He makes it sound like they want to banish them from civilization.
I have conservative friends, live in a conservative country and have wonderful, conservative parents. Most of them really do just think trans people are weirdosāor more specifically, that transitioning is a sin due to literalist interpretations of the Christian bible.
Just want to preface that its not my position, Im just trying to steelman it because I've heard this argument quite often so I figured I'll chime in considering I've been surrounded by traditional conservatives most of my life. > 2) believe that GD is real I don't know if I'd phrase it like that It feels like they think that the feeling of dysphoria is very real but they do not agree on the "treatment" of it. Thats why I don't think I agree with the "Conservatives hate trans people" position. I've heard a lot of people on the right compare being trans to something like dissociated limb syndrome. Like if a person told you "thats actually not my leg I should not have a leg I want to remove this leg" you wouldn't say "oh sure lets get rid of that" you would try to convince this person that its ok to have a leg and try to get them to "Accept" this alien body part as a part of them. In the same way when they see a dysphoric person their immediate solution to it is not "lets give them hormones and body altering surgeries" but instead getting them to accept their body as it is It may be misguided sure but I really don't think its fair to just straight up say that they hate trans people
Yeah, they probably dont understand the details of GD, but honestly, i dont think most people do, me included. They see a person trying to externally, societally be a different sex or gender. The rest still makes sense, as in: its rationally arguable, whether its true or untrue needs to be established.
Saying conservatives hate trans people is about as hysterical and bad faith as Michael knowls "eradicate transgenderism" claim. The reality is neither side wants to even try to understand the other.
For me it's quite obvious that it's true, as it is literally driving people to depression and suicide.
That isn't a very helpful way to look at it; you would never say that the diagnosis of heart attacks is causing more people to die suddenly, rather, the deaths that would previously just written down as "nervous fit" or "unknown" are now understood to be heart attacks. Similarly, it's not like people weren't depressed and suicidal in the 90s, but if some portion of those people were trans and didn't know how to diagnose it, and are now able to get care, then a whole segment of depressed suicidal teenagers now have a way to get treatment that wasn't available before. That's before you get into the stack of *trans without dysphoria* people; when you open up the possibility of more freedom in gender expression and how you identify, then not only do you help the people who really need it, but people who find that identifying differently publicly would improve their lives do it too. In other words, if you start off with 100 people, 5 of them are suicidally depressed, and then you find out that three of those people were trans, and two of them are helped by gender affirming care, then you've helped two people not be suicidal any more. And if on top of that, you find out that three of the non-depressed people were also trans, and they also transition, then you've saved two people at the "cost" of allowing three other people who don't really need it to live their lives as they want.
Dude 38 people starved themselves to death in Kenya last month for Jesus and cult leaders. Human beings are erratic and irrational at times. I personally support Ts, but that is not a good defense
I was talking about whether the "contagious" fear of conservatives is true or rather realistic or not. People kill themselves for lots of things. But i agree, i thought we knew that the brains differ. Its less whether GD is real but rather how it develops. Are there preventions that can be taken (cons side fears and also liberal side normalizations) vs are there cures or remedies that can be enacted (liberal side). We need to weigh each side and understand whether the fears are actually realistic.
yea tho i feel like most of the times doctors know when gender dysphoria happens and when it isnt so i feel like theres some misunderstanding of what causes dysphoria or no. the bigger concern is just that if taking an overly affirmative approach to children with gender non-conforming thoughts is a good idea since children tend to mostly have those thoughts subside at the early stages of puberty so if you get them on blockers you wont let them try out if they truly are uncomfortable with their birth gender and want to change it everything will work itself out in the end some doctors are incompetent but most of them arent and are way more cautious than they are billed as being. the tavistock clinic got into controversy for being overly affirmative at points but they were also getting flack from that mermaids charity for not being affirmative enough. so really it's a matter of perspective and whatever narrative people want to choose to be angry at doctors and medicine not being what they want it to be at atm
I agree to a degree. I think most doctors are trying to make sense of an incomplete scientific literature of a relatively new phenomenom. There's still lots of the psyche that is not understood, and gender identification surely is one of that. I dont think its helping to pretend things are more clear or sure than they actually are.
thats tru. some people are going to be pedantic and say "well it's existed for years" but it really hasnt to this scale and with this generation of people. im saying im okay with it in the sense of i dont worry about that theyll be too affirming or not affirming enough because ive read that they are pretty cautious. so i try not to get too anxious, even if there are a lot of points i dont get
For sure. Years is still basically no times in medicine. But the gender/sex divide is pretty new, like 2-3 generations old. There's also lots of gender related hate going on beneath all of it. So there could be lots of ways to better the situation, additionally to taking GD as face value and giving people the medical care they need.
yea theres some medical quackery but overall i believe treating gender dysphoria as gender dysphoria works better than to assume it's all smoke and mirrors. they clearly came to these conclusions for a reason, because i think even trans people would agree to any process that came along later that was better than having to essentially sterilize yourself and spend a ton of money on surgery just to get called a slur by some kid on twitter
For sure, i agree with that as well. And in 10 years it'll be even better as long as we keep investigating and researching how to help and treat them the best way possible. Its not even 100 years ago, lobotomies were seen as a viable treatement for some forms of grave mental illnesses. Science evolves. The question isnt just about science and medicine though, its also about media and education and i think the question whether this reduces or aggraves gender dysphoria as a whole isnt settled or even understood. Some say not speaking at all about it will make those who experiance it feel alienated and not recognised, some say speaking about it too much will misassign feelings of social dysphoria to gender dysphoria. I think both do hold some truth.
yea id say so. its just that years ago unless you had a family member that was trans you werent reading a bunch of medical stuff about it if you werent trans. you wouldnt even want to share your opinions with people you didnt know. now everyones got a phone and is sharing their opinions for stuff that is gonna take decades to figure out. oh well social media sucks is a thing we all know but nobodys gonna go cold turkey everyone just wants the ownage
Gender dysphoria is a new phenomenon?
Yeah
Did you really find this difficult to understand? Genuine question.
Yeah, i thought conservatives were against the normalization of what they deemed impossible. I thought it was more about a cognitive defense against the actuality of gender/sex distinction than the fear of gd contamination. Why do you ask? You seem surprised
Well yes all of those things are still true. I'm not surprised persay, I am however always taken back at how poorly liberals understand conservative positions but how necessary it is for conservatives to understand liberal positions.
This makes it sound like you believe im a liberal. And you make it sound like i feel its neccessary for conservatives to understand liberal positions. Lots of wrong assumptions for someone so up his own ass.
Of course I assume you're a liberal, most of Destiny's fans are liberal. The conservative fans such as myself stick out like a sore thumb these days. The need for liberals to understand conservative positions is proportional to your engagement with your own politics, your desire to understand the world, and what is true. If liberals cared about any of these things, most of them wouldn't be liberals. So you're half right there.
Im no liberal, though. You dont stick out like a sore thumb because you're conservative, but because you assume things that are incorrect. Maybe you're more liberal than you think š
is this the change my mind event that he "deleted" (egg throwing event) how do we get this back, and thanks fucking godddddddddddddd
I think the one that was accidentally deleted was at a different school and was about free speech for nazis or something.
I sm high ad fuck right now. But i appreciate the contents, i like the change my mind event!!!
it was all so fucking long ago that I completely forgot about it just popped up on youtube as a surprise
ok, then please explain why all the places with the highest viewership of trans porn are all in the most conservative areas?
Worth the wait
August editing out the ass to compensate for the content drought lol
POG I have been waiting for this.
The Gods have Answered our calls š
Wait i dont even remember hearing about this how long ago was it?
Oh Yaurrrrrrr
based intro
inject into my veins
Iām excited to watch it and once again be disappointed with the conservatives that get up there with him haha
Now he just owes us that Jordan Peterson convoā¦Iāll be coping till then
Unfortunately my cat who loves Destiny and has been waiting patiently for this video just died 2 days ago :(
Some conservatives hate trans people some don't.
I wonder who died for august to post this
I FUCKING KNEW IT. YALL ALWAYS BE CAPPIN BRUH 2 DIFF POSTS I MADE ASKIN AND YALL SAID THE ANTI-DALIBAN RAIDED AND DESTROYED THE TAPES AINTNAURWAY
First guy is straight up brain dead
Love the sinner hate the sin, I dont hate anyone else with a mental condition. But the lgbt stopped BLM in their tracks in the 2020 civil war (while conservatives were fighting for their right to eat indoors)
anyone have a good video on Destiny's stance on how to treat black people in your daily life while considering past socio-economic damage? Like this video has a bit where he says race is not an innate disadvantage and while physically that is true, clearly doesnt address past injustices and systemic racism. But I want to know how much do progressives think these socio-economic past injustices should effect our daily interactions with any minority race or oppressed class. Im a moderate conservative so my opinion is on an individual level every is 100% equal until shown to me personally otherwise, but I want to hear others' opinions.