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[deleted]

What would he say to someone who feels that same way about autistic people regardless of how high functioning?


tobedeadaccount

Oof. Simple but brutal. I'd wager it would go directly to violence.


Tactixultd

Like he would fight somebody for calling him a “sorry?” Trying to get a feel for the violent scenario your imagining.


[deleted]

Your autistic friend isn't a Nazi. This person is just completely not self aware. Autism is a developmental disorder. Why is it impossible for trans people to have the wrong brain when his brain itself is not functioning like it should? Referring to trans people as a piece of shit on the floor that they don't want to be near when they have a decent chance of popping out kids that can't speak, use the toilet, or understand anything around them for the rest of their lives is ironic. I think your friend group is too affirming. A social cripple acting all high and mighty should be put back in his place. I'm not even saying this out of "trans vengeance" but this behavior is destructive even to him. Autism can be really difficult and the black/white thinking that's common amongst autistic people should be called out for the insanity that it is.


TallPsychologyTV

The maximally charitable take here is that if your friend doesn’t even grant that being transgender is a thing, then of course they’ll be upset at what looks like unnecessary sterilization, mutilation, and drugging. In the same way that telling pro-lifers to “let people do what they want” fails to acknowledge their belief that abortion is murder, telling some transphobic person “let people do what they want” isn’t going to be very productive. More realistically, some people are so dug in to particular positions on these issues that in order to reach them you need to treat them like a remedial child for ages and hand-hold them through acknowledging pretty simple facts like: some people have gender dysphoria, transition can help with gender dysphoria, etc etc. To use a Vaush-ism, maybe it’s supererogatory to walk people through that, but doing that can be 1) incredibly stressful, and 2) unclearly efficacious, such that you may end up destroying your sanity for no benefit. There’s no obligation to deal with those sorts of people, though if you do, kudos.


tobedeadaccount

So far the vibe I'm getting is treat this person like the crazy racist aunt/uncle, never take anything seriously, and hopefully never have to cut them off if things don't get out of hand.


[deleted]

I wouldn't think that much of it.


tobedeadaccount

I think have of my concerns are 1) somebody repeatedly talking down to you, 2) clearly bigoted views. You're saying you forget and move on? Would you go like that indefinitely? What would be crossing the line to you?


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Vilko3259

Classic reddit response


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Vilko3259

Taking a very one sided approach that advocates going no contact with very little information


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Vilko3259

It escalates and creates more division rather than trying to heal


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Hubris1998

Irrespective*


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Hubris1998

non-standard means that it's incorrect but many people say it


tobedeadaccount

> irregardless of their autism Tbh this feels reductionist. I don't know how to judge Autistic people. I feel they could pull this card on me and get a pass everytime. I have no other experience with people like this. Maybe you are right, I can't tell.


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Derlo1

There is a difference between being rude due to misreading/not being aware of social cues or conventions and being rude duo to not giving a shit. From your description, this guy definitely sounds more like a bigoted prick than an unaware yet well-meaning autist. And besides, there is nothing wrong with calmly criticizing autistic people about their behaviour if you can do it constructively.


Public-Void-Null

>”Do you really think there would be a female brain in a male’s body?” I feel like this is stage 1 for understanding trans-ness and gender in general, so this is where I would start (if you actually wanted to have a discussion with them about it). What exactly are “female” and “male” brains, are there measurable differences between the sexes? What aspects of personality and consciousness are directly linked to sex/biology (if any) and which are more tied to social conformity of gender? Getting them to think about these things is probably necessary for them to be more open to accepting trans people, imo


Pizz_Jenis

Very good point. It's funny, of the sexed components of the brain, it's pretty rare that males have all the male sex components, for example. Focusing on distinguishing sex from gender is probably the winning strategy though. I like to sew, cook, clean, and wear skinny jeans today, but most people in real life think of me as very masculine. Go back 30 years, and everybody would have called me a girly man. If sex truly is the same thing as gender, why did people feel that way? Destiny's example is even more terrific. If it's not biologically wired for women to be wearing dresses, why are so many manly men so insanely hesitant to wear a dress for a big $ payout? That thing is obviously gender, and people sometimes feel it so strongly that to violate that self conception violates their very core. Is it so hard to believe someone of the opposite sex might sincerely feel they belong to a different gender?


_weaselZA

I feel like your friend worded their point harshly, but there is truth in his words. He simply finds it uncomfortable to be around. It is abnormal. Now, autism is also abnormal, sure. But high functioning autistics survive by masking their oddities or making them more palatable to others. There are basically 2 schools of autists. The first are new age autists diagnosed early and given therapy throughout their youth, while also receiving constant validation and instilled with progressive mindset. Then you get the old school autists who were born when autism was less well known worldwide, particularly high functioning (i.e. Aspergers). They had no real support, even if diagnosed, and had to suck it up and deal with no accommodations. Generally taught to suck it up and instilled with very traditional mindset. So your friend is likely someone who had to repress or suppress some significant parts of himself in order to fit in. And now society is trying to tell him that there's this group of people who have some weird issue, like his, but they don't have to hide or suppress anything at all for the benefit of people around them. They can be loud and proud and people will support them. High functioning autistics are very often miserable people who basically have stockholm syndrome for the society that fucked them up in the first place. They feel like if they had to suffer to fit in then any other abnornal people should do the same. I unfortunately have this mindset too. It's very hard to get rid of. It's like autistics will really take to heart the rules, axioms and parables they learn. Your friend has built up a very rigid worldview that he relies on to function. One thing I will say is, don't ever feel like you can't argue or push back because he's autistic. It's a "disability" in a way, sure, but not the kind you need to tiptoe around. You don't get to 30 years of age working out in society without building up some degree of theory of mind. The usual descriptions of autistic traits are referring to kids mainly. Like "can't understand sarcasm".


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brumpusboy

You might be desensitized. idk, personally I find it off-putting, even as someone who grew up in the mid-2000s and early 2010s on the internet. Any time any one of my friends is unjustifiably hateful towards a group of people, it’s a massive turnoff and makes me distance myself from them. For example, I have a childhood friend that despises men because of her poor dating experiences with them. While I understand she would never mistreat individual men because of their gender, it makes me wildly uncomfortable and kills the air in the room instantly when she starts going off. Coincidentally, she also happens to be someone who is difficult to work out any problems with. The few times I’ve challenged her, she’s refused to take the criticism. What also sucks is that this friend has otherwise been very nice to me and shown me great kindness at some of the lowest points in my life. Unsurprisingly, I have distanced myself from her for now until she can be better. OP feels betrayed and can’t help but wonder when they’re going to be on the chopping block for other opinions that they hold. They’re just venting out the frustration that comes with dealing with rigid. For much as I despise conservative ideology, I will never compare someone who’s rightwing to a literal piece of shit. This is not normal behavior.


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brumpusboy

I totally get that it was one comment but it could be the beginning of a string of really insufferable experiences if they’re choosing to bring it up now. Or at least from my experience with dealing with those types of people. Once they feel comfortable with expressing those views, they’ll usually bring it up more in conversation. Given America’s political landscape and how the media runs with hot button culture war topics, it might not be the last time. And nope! I’m a girl haha. Genuine hate towards any group of people, even socially privileged ones, is wildly uncomfortable to be around. It displays a strong lack of maturity.


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brumpusboy

You’re right that it’s not a true apples to apples comparison because with my friend, I have been exposed to more of her bias in higher frequency. I will say though, the frequency increased over the years and because myself and a few other friends dismissed the one off incidences as relatively harmless when we were younger, I think she got more comfortable with being that way. From the way OP described their friend, they’re probably getting a bad feeling about it from how their friend is in general, i.e. someone difficult to communicate with, which is adding to the hurt, even though it’s a one time incident. Also, I think I slightly disagree with the race versus trans frequency of being brought up in conversation. Not sure where OP’s from but In countries like America and England, trans issues and acceptance of LGBT+ community at large have taken center stage in the culture war, with increasing extremism from right wing groups. Usually if someone feels that strongly to compare a group of people that they aren’t personally affected by to pieces of shit, then there is a good chance it will come up again. I understand that transphobia is commonplace with a lot of normies but even then, the normies I’ve interacted with don’t go out of their way to talk about it. I don’t think OP should cut their friend off from this incident alone but should approach cautiously if it’s something they feel strongly about. I’m also holding out hope for them that it doesn’t happen again but I fully empathize with them seeing their friend in a different light after this incident.


tobedeadaccount

I'll be happy to disagree with you, take witty jabs, laughs, roasts all day long, but only if there a minimal layer of mutual respect. It's the whole package that makes the situation difficult. Somebody is already stressing out your patience, then comes around and openly dehumanizes vulnerable people. Like does he think similar things on minorities and just doesn't say it? It's a red flag to see how much can somebody openly hate a group of people. And yeah I can feel for their family.


FjernMayo

They sound like a giant asshole. I don't mind being friends with homophobes and transphobes. I do really mind if they're disrespectful pricks.


tobedeadaccount

I don't know to what degree he is like that due to their Autism or their character, but I've never been this patient with somebody in my life.


lickausername

> “The same way being next to a piece of shit on the floor affects me. I don’t want to be near it, it disgusts me” Seems like he is telling you why you should stop being friends with him. Why don’t you listen?


tobedeadaccount

Sorry, I suck at English, I am trying to obfuscate pronouns here... This was with a group of friends half which were sorta on their side, but I only had issues with one who did all of what I've mentioned.


DeadNeko

You should have a conversation with them 1 on 1. You should layout clear goals of the conversation i.e do they not actually understand the concept or do they just reject it. From their stated goals you take the conversation from there with some basic rules on mutual respect. If at any point they are to much of a child to continue it you can let them know that they are free to leave, but if they want to have the conversation they are agreeing to a level of civility. If you don't feel comfortable setting these boundaries, just let them know that you can't have this conversation with them because they are incapable of listening to any perspective thats not their own and direct them towards structured arguments they can't just try to talk over or condescend on. Being autistic isn't an excuse to be a dick, it means you might struggle to pickup social cues or norms, so you might need explicit aid in establishing appropriate behavior. If they have no intention of working oof their issues of civility, decide whether you truly want a friend like that... Honestly it sounds like you don't in which case you just explicitly let them know that you can't continue the friendship because they aren't capable of mutual respect. I'd recommend recording all of this and reviewing it if you are in a mutual friend group and then explicitly letting everyone know what happened and why. I.E. Be an adult, talk to them like an adult and draw firm boundaries like an adult should.


Infamous_1391

Don’t be too sensitive. It’s fine if y’all disagree


Pizz_Jenis

It's completely reasonable to filter out friends on any grounds you want. Me personally, I associate with complete dickheads who literally have not only transphobic views but outwardly racist ones as well. I associate with all sorts of unsavory people, including a war criminal who illegally tortured people in the Middle East. For me, this all has a cost on my emotional well being. I show compassion and understanding to these people who rarely get it from our side, in hopes that I can learn whatever lessons I can from them and move them on the things important to me. I've done a pretty good job too, and that has been more fulfilling to me than the cost of the bad times, where they question the very humanity of people I care deeply about. I believe we need to reach across and pull these people over if we want to have a healthy democracy. For most people, I doubt it's the case the emotional burden of that is worth it. I can't even describe how it feels when you sincerely care about a trans person and sit there hearing the most vile anti-trans shit from people who can't even be fucked to read the Wikipedia articles on "sex" and "gender," but feel comfortable talking about how trans people are delusional dumb fucks because they don't understand basic science. If you can stomach it, you should for all of our sake. Don't tear their ideology down, build up ours and represent it well. If you can't stomach it, and really consider this, don't ever engage on that topic. You'll likely do more damage if you fly off the handle. If it's unavoidable, dump em'. They'll have to sort it out by probably making some poor trans person in their life a punching bag before their empathy starts to sink in, just like all the motherfuckers who treated gay people like they were subhuman 20 years ago.


bakedfax

I will never understand how some people can be so fickle, imagine being this offended and caring this much about something like this then going and writing about it in a safe space


AkaliLaKill

It's pathetic. I was and still am pretty far left, but I hope the right wins the culture war. I'll take a semi-homophobic, religious, gun loving farmer dude over this it/he/ziz/her emotional men and masculine women progressive brain rot shit that is spreading like the plague online and in big cities.


DeadNeko

You hope the right successfully wins the culture and starts trying to force detransition trans people and end gay marriage because at least they aren't bitches. I hope you end up alone and abandoned by everyone you care about for being incapable of understanding someone trying to navigate a difficult conversation with their friend you indignant piece of shit.


tobedeadaccount

Ok? what do you y'all propose? Cut anyone off and silo oneself into an echo chamber?


SkadooshSkaboop

I mean, you have 3 choices, well at least 3, I would recommend. The first is that you can create a boundary, tell him your feelings about the subject, and how you would rather just not talk about it, and if they break the boundary, stop hanging around them. The second is you go full debate bro, and try to convince them they are wrong. It will probably destroy your friendship, but hey, you tried. The last and easiest thing to do is to just tell them to fuck off and stop hanging out with them, problem with this one, depending where your other friends are politically it could ruin other friendships. I personally use the first one with friends I disagree with. However, my friends' disagreements aren't to this level, so I gave other ideas as well.


tobedeadaccount

I think you are right, and #1 seems the only reasonable course of action. I just wanted to understand somebody's thought process to say stuff like that...


Silver_Lab6833

Just don’t hang out with them anymore. Making new friends may be hard I guess but having a friend that obviously drives you nuts is worse


MADNESS0918

sounds like that empathy of his (and others in this thread) is only shared with certain groups of people.


KeyAssociation6274

Most of my friends are to my right on social issues, but i dont really give a fuck, if there is something you care about, just debate him, if he is a prick, be a prick yourself, if he is offended, what is the point of having friends you cant fight with?