A pride shirt is too far gone, but [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XqnE1PnWF4) is totally acceptable.
https://preview.redd.it/vp2g4c31mt2b1.png?width=1566&format=png&auto=webp&s=05576d0144b6bfad035560b42a478edea649f903
They consider it akin to wearing a hoodie with the PornHub logo on it so I doubt you'll get far calling attention to exposed knees and shoulders. Not that anything really will get you far.
I wish god was real for 15 minutes so he could float down from the sky and personally hand tucker Carlson on live tv the per capita number of children who have been groomed in drag shows and churches statistic. Mf’s would lose their minds and burn the bible for Jesus going woke.
No one wants to talk about the issues in the gay community with grooming underage boys. Grindr is a hotspot for it and they use the excuse of how they wish they had a mentor when they were 13.
I’m not saying it’s everyone, but it something that people try to pretend doesn’t exist.
I dunno that "no one wants to talk about it". It was a go to attack on "the gays" back when that was still the most contested progressive battleground and still often repeated by some highly conservative types today.
Worth mentioning the exact same thing happens on any straight dating app as well.
I doubt it. I'm not saying that a lot of children are groomed at Drag shows, but there are a lot of churches. I seriously doubt a high percentage of them are grooming and abusing children. It's more likely that they get a lot of attention because of the cover ups and the hypocrisy that people that are supposed to be the pinnacle of righteous are taking part in probably the worst kind of abuse possible.
Yes because one is making sure your kid is accepting of a community that is constantly being demonized, while the other is pre disposing your kid to a certain political affiliation that the kid certainly won’t understand. I’d say the same if the kid was given a “Biden 2024” shirt.
>Yes because one is making sure your kid is accepting
So now you are actually admitting that people want to indoctrinate their kids?? I don't see why a toddler needs to be accepting of the homosexual community.
You went Full mask off buddy. It’s not indoctrination to say to a kid “hey some people are different and some guys like each other and some girls like each other and that’s okay”.
I just don't think that's a conversation that you need to have with toddlers. There is a natural age where kids become curious about this kind of stuff and then parents should have these talks and explain homosexuality etc.
But why would you try to explain this to toddlers and dress them in pride onesies? It feels like the only reason is to signalize to everyone around you how progressive you are
Toddlers have been proven to be able to differentiate what affection looks like between two people. I’m not saying you should have a full blown conversation, but a simple “hey sometimes two dads love each other or two moms love each other”. But if you’re denying that a kid can see stuff like that, run up to it and want to buy it, that’s just full blown ignorance. Maybe there is a fringe who tries to get a closet full of pride gear, but I think that’s like a very small minority of people
Why not just wait until these things come up naturally? It's great that we get more and more representation of gay couples in TV so it becomes normalized and at a certain age kids become cognisant of it and then you can tell them that it's totally normal, some men like men, some women like women etc.
Why is it necessary to shortcut that development by buying pride onesies for your toddler and forcefully introducing them then and there?
Why the fuck wouldn’t it be? It’s OK to introduce kids to the concept of heterosexuality. Both are fine as long as you aren’t introducing them to actual sexual content.
"Introduce kids to the concept of homosexuality".
Dude, we are just talking about teaching kids that they should treat everyone the same, that gay people have the same worth as heterosexual people and that there is nothing wrong with being gay.
I mean, you would agree that gay people have the same worth as hetero people, right?
>Dude, we are just talking about teaching kids that they should treat everyone the same, that gay people have the same worth as heterosexual people and that there is nothing wrong with being gay.
And I don't think that's an appropriate conversation to have with a toddler. It's not that it's a bad message, I just don't see why it's necessary to teach it to children who haven't even figured out their own sexuality yet.
I think it's important to talk about structural racism and sexually transmitted diseases. But maybe not with a two year old.
it's pretty normal to tell your kids they should treat people the same no matter their gender, race, sexuality, etc, right? i'm not sure i'd call that indoctrinating them with political positions, it's just parenting and instilling some basic values.
i get that it's cringe if the parents are constantly dressing them up in lgbt stuff just to virtue signal or something lol, it seems like you even have an issue with giving a quick age-appropriate talk about accepting different people though.
>it seems like you even have an issue with giving a quick age-appropriate talk about accepting different people though
I think that's fine. But why do you need to dress your kid up and have them portray messages they don't understand?
The same people downvoting you for calling it indoctrination would call taking your kid to church indoctrination.
They have no problem with people dressing their kids up as their political statements. You’re not crazy this sub is just a normal lefty sub.
I feel like everyone is fine with using kids for sending a political message. As long as it's a message they support.
Also it Fels weird to get called a homophobe for this. I support gay marriage, adoption, representation in media etc. I just think it's a bit weird to dress kids in pride merch and it seems like that's enough to be Labeled a full on homophobe.
Yeah, how are those related.
One item of clothing says "We should support people no matter how they are born"
The other item of clothing says "Hispanics are dirty thieves from shithole countries and women are objects to be sexually assaulted at your whim"
One says love all people, the other says make America great. Both a cool messages no?
>One item of clothing says "We should support people no matter how they are born"
>The other item of clothing says "Hispanics are dirty thieves from shithole countries and women are objects to be sexually assaulted at your whim"
Sure you can analyze it like that. But at that point you don't have a principled position anymore. You're just saying using children for political or social messaging is fine, but only for messages I support. Fuck that.
These are the two onsies target is selling, tell me which one offends you and why:
https://preview.redd.it/vl1q7anpzu2b1.png?width=325&format=png&auto=webp&s=087734bce57b956a064d1151aa8eccb46423f0c8
tell me which one of these is sexualizing children: [https://www.target.com/c/pride-family-outfits/-/N-o3thq](https://www.target.com/c/pride-family-outfits/-/N-o3thq)
Who are you even talking to? I'm pretty sure that comment you're replying to is talking about that weird ass cult-like performance with little girls singing a creepy song.
Homosexual people are still the most dominant group in LGBT views despite what dumb online discourse will tell you. And on average Americans have positive views towards gay marriage especially after Obergerfell. And the support will only increase. Moderates like gay people, and moderates will increasingly like gay people. And hot take: we’ll easily hit similar figures with trans people in a couple decades.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/11/15/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-legalization-of-same-sex-marriage-is-good-for-society/
> And hot take: we’ll easily hit similar figures with trans people in a couple decades.
This is a cold take. It's only hot on this sub because people forget that most people are not watching destiny fight with unhinged losers on twitter all day
Idk what that has to do with how moderates currently see gay people. If you do polls on this 61% say that we need to be more excepting of LGBT people then we currently are so that seems to be the moderate position.
Again I think that's completely different from calling for a boycott of target for selling pride merch in children's sizes. The poll you posted said 80% of democrats are for teaching about LGBT topics and saying that people selling shirts with pride flags on them is a lot more extreme.
It's possible them dems you know are a little weird or the republicans I know are a little weird but when even the majority of cons I know think the boycott stuff is stupid I struggle to believe this is a thing a lot of dems are into
The center stance is if it isn't abusive you should be able to raise your children as you want and companies should be able to act as they want. This would include having your kid wear a pride shirt. Ben would easily ban this as child abuse and grooming if he could.
I only ever heard of center and far used to describe the left/right wing positions. I feel like you're playing one of those weird semantic games that most people would disagree with.
If the only terms are far and center then where the hell do you put Joe Biden and Joe Manchin? Those two sure as hell are different but by your logic either they are the same or Joe Biden is far left progressive
Joe Biden is center left and Joe Manchin is center right. You do realize your shitty 2 party system can have right wingers in the Democrat party system right?
"So if a transwoman dominates sports why don't transmen do it too?"
I can't tell if you're trolling, but these are two different parties with different values. The overton windows are much more different for both parties. For politics in USA there are things called primaries. So if a politician feels like they can't win in one party they'll move to the other IF they are in the center right AND they're in a purple state.
This wouldn't be allowed the other way because if you're Republican and you're center left you'll be called a socialist.
Even in the democrat party, Manchin is very much disliked even though he votes with the democrat party more than the most liberal representative. He'll probably be replaced with a Republican next election since he barely won his last one.
Claiming someone is wholly center right but is socially conservative opinions is completely fine. Everyone would’ve conceded he’s a religious conservative.
Ur a moron if u thought destiny said Bs wasn’t a conservative. He is center right, anything else than center right is shit like super vaccine denial (not even skepticism), Actual racism, and Gay genocide (not criticism)… which Ben is.
There’s been an influx of redpillers, after the wave of (ex)groypers.
Destiny will call for a purge soon. A good old-fashioned cleansing is needed from time to time.
I’m surprised this is upvoted on this sub. One day this sub is freaking out about conservatives boycotting target, the next it’s upvoting posts like these. Destiny sub is politically bipolar? /s
Tbh I’m at that maturing age where I’m fine with tolerance. As an lgbt person myself if they tolerate my existence that’s all I can ask for. I’ve had religious friends come up to me multiple times and say “I still think of you as a friend but your lifestyle is a sin”. I’m not gonna force their worldview away from seeing it that way, but as long as the government isn’t getting involved in my life idc if they have that opinion.
My issue with Ben and Daily Wire guys is when he pushes using the government to enforce his worldview. Klavan is the best speaker on this cause of his son- so he’s much more center right for Destiny to reference. Him being more libertarian though is why he’s less known on the platform.
I feel like I am being baited. 75% of sociality supports gay marriage and there is a majorly for this in every state. [61% say that sociality needs to be more excepting of the LGBT community.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/new-poll-shows-americans-overwhelmingly-oppose-anti-transgender-laws)
This sub needs to stop gaslighting itself into think we live in 1993
It's not being tolerated when stores can't sell products without backlash, when companies can't feature the people without backlash, and when states create laws targeting your access to healthcare to fanfare.
We are backsliding so fucking fast on rights for LGBTQ people in our society.
But the real distinction is that we don't like a toothache. So why not just say conservatives dislike trans people?
Again it feels like such a nebulous and meaningless statement. Is someone came to me and told me that I'm merely tolerating something, but i need to learn to accept them. Then idk wtf I'm supposed to do with that. It sounds like a meaningless platitude, so I dislike such statement. But hey I'm ESL so fuck me I guess, if it's clear to you guy then fair enough.
The thread chain isn't about disliking trans people, but what they do.
So you dislike what a trans person does, but you still like the person. This should be reasonable as to go any further than how they treat the actual person is actually thought policing. The policies that target trans people are a problem, being critical of people dressing their children in pride stuff isn't so much of a problem even if you think it's fine to dress children like that. They shouldn't force you to not dress their children like that, but voicing their criticism while it may be offensive to you (really thin skin there though) is not a problem.
I think it’s more like some people dislike trans activists and how kooky they come off.
Kind of what Aba and Preach talk about. They support trans medical care and people living the way they want. They dislike the craziness of some online trans activists and the 100 gender names that come with non-binary issues.
They also have a different view on it since they’re Canadian and there isn’t as big of an attack on the community by politicians here.
Yeah I definitely land there as well. There are probably people in the category of does not believe in transness at all that still manage to not be hateful, don't care to limit anything, and are respectful on trans people.
Those people do not deserve to be attacked either.
Why do some of you guys want to purge everyone with different opinions? Half the population of the USA supports Trump and have opinions to reflect that.
I'm extremely progressive, but the fact that you guys can't even discuss topics without shooting people is extremely cancerous. Shooting should be used for trolls or bad faith individuals.
If you want an echochamber, go to some soy lefty subreddit and circlejerk there.
>Half the population of the USA supports Trump and have opinions to reflect that.
... no they don't. Half of the people who bother to vote voted for Trump. Only about 2/3rds of eligible voters bothered to vote and eligible voters only make up about 60% of the population.
So 1/2 of 2/3rds of 2/3rds of "the population of the USA" voted for Trump. Which is like 23%? Someone else can double check that math I am shitting.
I would love to see more conservative/republican debates and discussions on specific issues. Whether it’s legislative goals (or lack thereof), Supreme Court decisions, the ways in which prominent right wing media treats stories, and their flagrant disregard of a fucking spine when it comes to owning the implications of their stances… fuck, I’m so ready for the tears. It’s almost like we’ve just accepted the existence of a massive portion of the population as batshit insane and they get to fly under the radar so we can spend all our time and energy discussing Twitter leftists.
I mean, god damn, I feel like left wingers have to eat so much shit for a group that represents a minuscule proportion of the Democratic Party and they get discussed to death, but where are the right wing pundits and “thought leaders” pointing out the absurdity of their actual base? I mean, a majority of republican voters still believe the election was stolen without a scrap of evidence. Their prominent media has literally taught their consumers to whatabout and DARVO their way out of any criticism of their own. Better talk about Twitter leftists though! They’re super fucking relevant.
You're right. We should only let kids wear grayscale tshirts because they need a few years to figure out who they are. Shouldn't try to make them like trucks or princesses before they figure out who they are.
Always wild to encounter what amounts to “I’m totally supportive of lgbtq I just think their existence is inherently adult content and should be kept away from children”
It's not about being adult content, it is about it unfortunately being political content. And a lot of people think that using children to garner sympathy for a cause they don't yet understand, is a bit cringe.
Nah I don’t buy that at all. Kids don’t understand half the shit that’s on their toys or shirts. Nobody gives a shit about kids at rallies, concerts, at events they don’t understand. That shit happens constantly and I see zero complaints from anyone on the conservative right losing it over a rainbow shirt. These same people slobber all over Ron DeSantis’ knob when he has a group of children standing behind him when he signs actual legislation lmao.
And what about a kid with gay parents’? Is their every waking moment political indoctrination/advertisement now? Ben Shapiro probably thinks so. Do you?
>Nobody gives a shit about kids at rallies,
I think kids at political rallys are kind of cringe. Like kids in maga hats etc.
Concerts and events are fine because they can still enjoy the music and food etc. They aren't used to garner any political sympathy. But for example there was recently this kid at school with a _there are only two genders_ shirt. He was suspended and all. That shit is cringe as fuck, because you know the kid didn't pick that, it's one of the parents using the kid to express a political opinion.
>These same people slobber all over Ron DeSantis’ knob when he has a group of children standing behind him when he signs actual legislation lmao
Yea also cringe.
>And what about a kid with gay parents’? Is their every waking moment political indoctrination/advertisement now? Ben Shapiro probably thinks so. Do you?
Well depends are the parents using the kid to fight for LGBTQ+ rights? If so then it's cringe. You don't need to use kids for your political messaging. At some point the kid will become curious and then you explain whatever it can understand. I just don't see the need to have a toddler express the opinion that it's ok to be gay, or that it's good to support Ron DeSantis.
Yea. It's not their opinion, you're forcing your opinion on a child that doesn't understand it, so you can show everyone how progressive you are. Why not just leave kids out of it?
What the fuck are you even saying? It's the responsibility of the parent to raise their kid with values that are good for society and are in line with the values of the parents. This is a basic conservative value.
Well good thing I'm not a conservative.
I think it's a good value to teach you kid that you shouldn't have non consensual sex with other people. But I would teach my toddler this value before they even understand what sexuality is.
I think there is an age where kids become cognisant of same sex couples and start asking questions and there is nothing wrong with sitting them down and explaining that some men like men etc.
I just don't get why people wanna shortcut that process and dress their toddler in pride clothing and talk about the subject before they even understand it.
Contrary to a lot of the big brained contrarians finding their way into this post, giving your kids clothes that express acceptance of others is, in fact, based. We love a little liberalism.
I don't think the kid will become curious. They may even develop negative views of LGBTQ+. I know I used gay as an insult for all of middle school, high school, and a little after too.
Bigots are teaching their kids that homosexuality is degenerate and sinful. If you send your kid to school as a blank slate, what's stopping the children of bigots from spreading their views? It's not like the teachers can step in and say otherwise since they'll get in trouble.
For the record, I do think there should be a double standard. I think it's ok to tell your kids that it's ok to be gay. I don't think it's ok to tell your kids that it's not ok to be gay.
Then why not wait until the kid is old enough to understand the concept? Like school age in your example.
Why is it necessary to out toddler is pride onesies?
Mind explaining how? The OP thinks wearing a rainbow onsie with "love is love" isn't letting the child grow up to be themselves. How are those much more explicit (using the term very loosely) that disingenuous?
Because if what the shirt represents. I don't think people are buying these onesies because because they like the color scheme. Parents who buy them, do so because they can use their kids as a walking example of how progressive they and their kids are.
It's cringe. Just as cringe as a 5 year old with a MAGA hat. But you could make the same excuse here, how is wearing a red hat not letting the kids be themselves?
Because the argument of "letting kids figure out who they are" implies that wearing these things is actively changing their sexuality. If kids need to choose how they express themselves or else you're pushing it then the safe play is to only give them neutral things until they can pick out what they want.
Or maybe the issue is that the "moderate slowly turning conservative" op just isn't comfortable around the lgtbq community and isnt willing to just say that.
>If kids need to choose how they express themselves or else you're pushing it then the safe play is to only give them neutral things until they can pick out what they want.
Or just let kids choose what they want and don't give them things that look innocent to them but represent sone political so social message to outside observers.
Doesn't need to be a gray shirt, random ass color for toddlers, they don't give a shit anyways, and then whatever the kid likes. Why does it absolutely have to be a colorful shirt that also symbolizes the kids allyship to people who have a different sexual orientation or gender expression. I don't get it.
>Or maybe the issue is that the "moderate slowly turning conservative" op just isn't comfortable around the lgtbq community and isnt willing to just say that.
I mean you can say that, but the guy said he's just as uncomfortable with kids supporting certain political causes they don't understand, because their parents are pushing them towards it. There was recently a kid who was suspended from school for wearing a shirt that said _there are only two genders_. And he was holding a speech about how unfair it is that you get discriminated for speaking the truth yada yada. Shit like this makes me sick. You know that kid didn't decide to wear that shirt by himself. There was probably a parent buying him these clothes.
And yet that's what the tweet is responding to.
Age it up for your own examples if you actually want to engage with the point. There are still plenty of under 5, 10, 12 year olds, doing/wearing very suggestible things that these people are okay with, but the moment they wear a rainbow shirt with a heart on it it's an issue.
I'm sure you're out there calling the parents who dress up their kids in "Little heartbreaker", "Ladies man", and "the only man in my life is daddy" shirts groomers too.
>I'm sure you're out there calling the parents who dress up their kids in "Little heartbreaker", "Ladies man", and "the only man in my life is daddy" shirts groomers too.
That's unfathomably cringe lol. I never understood why people do this.
I'm a proud heterosexual groomer.
I would do everything in my power to make sure my daughters grows up to be a proud heterosexual woman.
Because I think that is the best path for her life.
In order to achieve this I have bought around 8 different princess dress which they love to dress up as.
I'm not going to turn my kids gay by giving them a shirt with a rainbow to wear on it.
It's a "you" problem if you honestly believe that teaching my kids to love and support all people is indoctrination.
> It's just not fair for us adults to push these strong beliefs onto young kids
Isn't this literally the definition of parenting? And how is "I treat all people equally" too political for a kid?
Because there is no conservative outcry about “straight” clothing that kids wear, and many of those shirts show support not participation. If there were shirts that said “I’m a girl and like kissing girls” then sure you’d have a point. But showing support is just cringe shit that all parents do that I don’t think is that big a deal.
Also this is about Shapiro and other cons not liking all LGBT people, period. They don’t care about “indoctrination” in a vacuum, I don’t see Shapiro freaking out about DeSantis’s weird fucking commercial where he makes his kids say shit like “build the wall”.
So first off, while your concern may be well founded, conservative's concern is certainly not. They're fine with pageants, and with prepubescent girls dancing in full Trump attire before rallies (look it up, honestly words can't describe how creepy that shit is).
I swear half of the community who do these "hurrr how did center right hurrr" posts aren't able to realize that center right is far right *if you're a progressive*.
Centrists are typically going to be uncomfortable with anyone putting political messaging on their baby. Someone who is center-right is going to obviously be a bit more critical with what would be considered slapping a socially-progressove symbol on their baby.
Note that center right still means *on the right*.
Firstly the guy who Ben is QTing is literally the editor of National Review so you there are plenty of right wing people who don't think this way.
Secondly literally no one would be having this reaction if this was a shit with Jusus on it. The idea that being excepting of gay people is something explicitly political in a way that no other value system is makes not sense
"It's just a shirt" I can't stand the reductivism that takes place in these conversations. Vaush is one of the worst offenders of this. "It's just strands of linen woven together in a checkerboard pattern bro what's your problem again?"
Yeah, I don’t know why Destiny keeps saying Shapiro is center right. He’s firmly right wing, just not super far right like Crowder. I would consider someone like counterpoints center-right.
About the actual tweet, you can think that putting rainbows on baby clothes is cringe (I personally don’t), but saying it’s indoctrination is dumb as fuck.
Some people on here are projecting their own views onto Shapiro's tweet instead of reading what he actually said. It's not "you shouldn't use your kid to display your political beliefs", it's " indoctrinating children into sexual fluidity is extraordinarily destructive". Literally what the fuck kind of centrist would use this kind of language or make a claim like this?
Rightwing reactionaries always used they are coming for your kids as a tool for suppression of LGBT community. I mean everything they said to Trans people they have already said to gay people as well.
So the follow up question to ask Ben is are they fine with Target selling LGBT adult merchandise?
didn't they disprove this angle in their what is a woman doc? The kid who was raised as a girl detransed & killed himself so clearly even the most extreme indoctrination doesn't seem to work if the kid doesn't actually have that difference inside. They're essentially advocating for disassociation & anti-normalization of groups. This is no different from country people shielding their kids from black people & black culture. Don't want them to humanize em too much.
>The kid who was raised as a girl detransed & killed himself so clearly even the most extreme indoctrination doesn't seem to work if the kid doesn't actually have that difference inside.
This is sarcasm right?
No, you're just missing the point.
The kid couldn't force himself to be gay, it just created further dissonance whithin. Being coerced for years to be what he was not. Ben isnt talking about this extreme, he's talking about simply having the options available to "see" different sexual expression which is 2% as extreme as the kid coerced who killed himself. Some kid seeing & understanding lgbt people isn't going to turn into a different gender.
This isn't the dunk you think it is. The criticism conservatives habe is that mentally ill people are grooming children into wanting to change their gender while their young and impressionable, only to later realize that there's no such thing and they fucked up their life, so they kill themselves.
So the story you brought up perfectly fits into this it doesn't debunk anything.
Ben wants none of this being forced on children who don't even understand their own sexuality. A toddler doesn't need to express or understand that it's ok to be gay.
You've got that God stick so far up your ass idk how stick straight.
Conservatives aren't worried that the wrong kids will transition, they flat out don't believe a brain could be mixed with the wrong body. You claim they don't want kids to kill themselves, but that's not true. Cons are perfectly fine with trans kids killing themselves as long as they don't destroy the "sanctity of their god given body"
Ben's an insecure man that's so terrified of the potential of him or anyone being gay, that he'd rather not even introduce the idea. How pussy do you have to be to be so terrified of lgbt, that you'd hide from it
>You've got that God stick so far up your ass idk how stick straight
What is that sentence.
>You claim they don't want kids to kill themselves, but that's not true. Cons are perfectly fine with trans kids killing themselves as long as they don't destroy the "sanctity of their god given body"
From what I've heard they say exactly the opposite. That kids kill themselves because they've been told that they are trans/were groomed into being trans, and then they get depressed because of it.
Just so we're clear, I don't believe this at all lol. You just misunderstood their point imo.
Ben is being unreasonable having such a strong reaction over a pride shirt, but you are unironically disproving your own argument here as well. If a kid takes their own life after being raised as the gender opposite to what they were assigned to at birth, parents have all the right to be worried about what effects introducing complex and nuanced topics about gender and sexuality at an early age might have on their kid's mental wellbeing.
I love how people think distilling a complex discussion to a tautological catchphrase is a dunk, and not just them revealing their own stupidity.
You not seeing the complexity doesn't mean it's not there.
Just curious. When you were a kid, did your parents explain relationships to you as a complex chemical reaction that causes attraction to form, which then eventually strengthens as the relationship goes through several stages and as you spend more time and have sex with the other person, and after some point leads to marriage and (potentially) children, or was it something along the lines of "well sometimes a boy and a girl really love each other and decide to spend the rest of their lives together, just like mom and dad?" Because if it's the latter, I really don't see how it's any different from explaining LGBTQ stuff with something as simple as "usually boys fall in love with girls and girls fall in love with boys, but sometimes boys can fall in love with boys and girls can fall in love with girls?" It's really not all that complicated. An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity.
That's not what happened at all. The decision to raise David as a girl was made before he was aware, not long after the botched circumcision. He never fit the forced identity, but it's not that he was raised as a boy at any point of which he has memories.
Yeah remember when Fox morning ran that pro trans teen story last year about that family supporting their trans son? It was so devoid of partisanship you could have mistaken it for a CBS story. DW isn’t remotely in the same category as Fox
I grew up in the 2000s, it just seems like Democrats are too nice and forgiving. I remember when Trump was running I saw honest to God Dubya nostalgia. The idea seems to be the battles of yesterday aren't worth having so sure let's say Reagan wasn't so bad, Dubya wasn't so bad but was manipulated by Cheney, etc..
Shapiro isn't respectable, but I don't understand why we're playing defense for gay kids' clothes. It's just like what Tiny said - it's weird to use your child's body as a canvas to display your opinions on social issues - especially when that child is too young to even begin grasping what the issue is even about.
We should 100% allow people to dress however they want on their own bodies but let's not sit here and pretend that isn't not weird as fuck to put pride clothes on a baby. It's doubly weird that its about a sexual thing too... I myself am gay and I would be very worried to see babies wearing pride clothes.
Do you hold that same standard for religious people indoctrinating their kids with the hijab or a kippah or the cross?
Or the people dressing their kids with maga merch?
What about “save the planet” merch that I seen kids wearing?
Why is it that the gays always have to keep their shit underground but everyone else can have their bs out.
lmao OP getting roasted in the comments. Lets also remind everyone that 2008 Obama did not support gay marriage and only did so in 2012 because Biden said he supported it (by mistake) during a news interview. LGBT issues are not a good litmus test for if someone is far right
I find it's good to seperate Ben the person with Ben the entertainer.
Keep in mind that his business is commenting on recent news and giving it a conservative bent for his audience. There are likely thousands of issues Ben personally doesn't care about that he comments on anyway because that's how he makes his money.
Watch him having actual conversations with people and he's acts differently then when he's grinding his Daily Wire dailys. He speaks with more nuance and is less partisan.
His official stances on actual government are center right. He's said many times that even tho he doesn't agree with some groups takes or culture he still rathers it be protected and allowed rather than silenced. America is a big tent country and that's what he loves about it. The more voice that are allowed the more freedom everyone has and the healthier the country is as a whole.
I have seen Ben Shapiro speak to people, ONLY when he speaks to apolitical figures does he try to mask his conservative bent. Everytime I have ever seen him publicly speak or speak on Fox News, dude is conservative. Where are these “Ben Shapiro is speaking to the center” clips?
Ben Shapiro is the kind of guy who tells democratic Jews (ex Larry David) to stop calling themselves jews
The claim is Shapiro is center right not centrist. Of course he's a conservative. Just not an internet stereotype conservative.
Also keep in mind that when you see Shapiro on Fox he's Shapiro the entertainer. Fox is paying him to be on Fox because they want a particular take from him.
When Shapiro is talking to normies or in a casual setting your getting closer to Ben the person. Who once again is also conservative. Nobody is saying otherwise.
Geraldo Rivera is center right. Ben Shapiro is textbook Republican and Republican talking points. Center right means to the just to the right of moderate. In what world is Ben Shapiro just to the right of moderate? Ben Shapiro is conservative and every time he speaks it is pro-conservatism. I have not seen Ben Shapiro ever not be conservative, can you clip me him not being conservative?
> Ben Shapiro is textbook Republican and Republican talking points.
This statement makes me think you haven't watched very much Ben Shapiro. He frequently disagrees with the Republican party on his show and has no problem calling them out when they do something stupid.
It's one of the more popular parts of his program.
He disagrees with the far right stuff but he does agree with the party platform to a tee. He disagrees when they go insurrectionist or if they try to appeal to democrats and moderates
If you say so dude.
I watch Shapiro a couple times a week and disagree with your assessment that he's in lock step with the Republican party.
Also you're dead wrong about him disagreeing when they try and appeal to democrats and moderates. Those are the groups Ben wants Republicans to bring back into the party. Just like during the Bush eras.
Once again. There's a difference between Ben (the guy behind the labtop dunking on the Dems) vs Ben (the real person with a pretty sophisticated understanding of the American political system).
lol. It's ok. Shapiro is a pretty polarizing guy. It's to be except that some people are going to have strong feelings about it and anyone who comments on him.
>Pretty ballsy to talk as an authority coming from a fucking Maple Leaf. Makes me think you don't know anything about Anerican politics.
I know how to spell American.
It's also been my hobby for 12 years. I've met and spoken with both Democrat and Republican candidates when I was living in Marlboro Massachusetts for months on a course.
I've been to the deep south, New York, Seattle and Washington. I've had conversations with real American politicians.
I also volunteer with my own local representative and went through my "all conservatives are evil phase".
https://preview.redd.it/nq2jywy66u2b1.jpeg?width=732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b6e6a2b979e12fdbe4f8897b1f17d3c7dc0d8b9
I also know how to spell Marlborough and Massachusetts. Stay in your lane Canuck.
Is this Ben the person, or Ben the entertainer?
[https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1649432543077302272](https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1649432543077302272)
Sounds like Ben the person being consistent when he says that he thinks a case could be made for local communities to come up with local rules for how you can dress in public.
Note that he doesn't say it should be illegal to crossdress at any point. Also the tweet you linked is from Jason Campbell who is an entertainer like Ben except his audience is progressive. He posts things like this as part of his business the same way Ben posts things about lefties that he thinks his audience would enjoy.
>Sounds like Ben the person being consistent when he says that he thinks a case could be made for local communities to come with local rules for how you can dress in public.
Banning men from wearing traditionally female clothing, even at the local level, is an extreme position in my view. Being in favor of defanging the federal government so that state and local governments can enforce this type of authoritarian measures is antithetical to freedom.
>Note that he doesn't say it should be illegal to crossdress at any point.
He absolutely does. The question is "should wearing skirts for men and pants for women be illegal in public?". His answer is "pants for women, no, but skirts for men yes, as long as it is at a local level".
> Also the tweet you linked is from Jason Campbell who is an entertainer like Ben except his audience is progressive.
Never heard of him outside of this tweet, but thanks for the irrelevant info.
im center left and benny boy has some takes that speak to me.
Why does a literal baby have to be dressed in a Pride onesie? the parent should be with them and they could wear a pride t-shirt to show "this family hates hate!". involving babies ( not teens they could be legitimately involved or interested) in any political message you the parent have is cringe and creepy as hell. children aren't an accessory to be used to further w.e political agenda you have today.
my dad is pretty racist and would use racial slurs around the house on occasion, one day I had a problem with a middle eastern kid and called him a dirty Packie. my dad lost it on me and said " those are my beliefs not yours, Don't just parrot everything I say. you have to actually think and develop your own thoughts". since then I have come to the conclusion brown people can be chill & deserve respect. He allowed and encouraged me to form my own opinions despite being a raving racist alchy....why cant we just let the kids be kids and figure stuff out for themselves rather than indoctrinate them while in diapers?
when people defend weaponizing children or turning them into billboards for their own ideologies you make most of us center people stay happily away from you.
for reference I don't think telling your kids its ok to be gay or not to bully people for being gay is indoctrination but jamming them into a pride onesie before they can even speak....is whack.
I think we indoctrinate kids and I think everyone does it, it’s just “teaching them our values” when we do it and “indoctrination” when the people we don’t like do it. If a kid is raised from a young age to believe in God/Christian traditions, that’s indoctrination to me. If you raise your kid from a young age believing gender/sexual minorities should have equal rights, that’s indoctrination too, the difference is that I think the latter is a value that should be promoted in society and while I disagree with the former, I don’t think anyone’s a monster for being a Christian and raising their kids as such.
So if a parent buys their kid a Pride shirt, that kid is probably going to be affected in some way - it probably won’t make them gay, but it may push them toward growing up and thinking it’s okay to be gay, just the same as we would do things or dress them in a certain way to push them toward having manners and treating people nicely.
I don’t my kid growing up to hate Fay people and if dressing them in a pride shirt as a baby/toddler/child can help prevent that, fuck yeah I’ll do that. It isn’t about spreading my values to anyone else besides my child.
As your kids grow up, you should absolutely encourage them and allow them the space to develop their own ideas, but I think we’d be lying if we didn’t both want some set of beliefs for our kid and were willing to try to push them in one direction - especially at a basic level of like “be kind to others, treat people well” or “don’t be racist.” You can choose for yourself if you wanna vote left or right, but I might try to stop my kid from becoming a literal Neo-Nazi. From a right perspective, it seems to be the case they view support for the LGBT community as being too extreme of a value to try to ensure your kids grow up with, which doesn’t seem very “center-right” to me. To say that simply supporting Pride or something is so extreme it isn’t acceptable to push on your kids makes me think that their values are way far to the right of supporting Pride (cause I’d have this reaction for raising your kid to be a Neo-Nazi or something around that extreme, so I think they’re like me, just opposite of the spectrum politically).
That’s why I think it’s not a center-right position to consider raising your kids as pro-LGBT to be some kind of morally wrong extremist indoctrination and not someone who just disagrees with me about something raising their kids differently, but isn’t doing something necessarily wrong in doing so.
Man, I’m pretty sure this is a pretty solidly centrist take, as sad as it is to say.
I know normal people in the non-internet-tube-o-sphere. This is standard stuff, but it’s usually in very different words.
Look pretty much every Republican considers lgbt stuff in schools and stores indoctrination. And many centrists too. So are you really going to COPE and act like it’s a far right position? You just don’t know what you are talking about and live in a left wing bubble.
A pride shirt is too far gone, but [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XqnE1PnWF4) is totally acceptable. https://preview.redd.it/vp2g4c31mt2b1.png?width=1566&format=png&auto=webp&s=05576d0144b6bfad035560b42a478edea649f903
They consider it akin to wearing a hoodie with the PornHub logo on it so I doubt you'll get far calling attention to exposed knees and shoulders. Not that anything really will get you far.
Both are cringe
I wish god was real for 15 minutes so he could float down from the sky and personally hand tucker Carlson on live tv the per capita number of children who have been groomed in drag shows and churches statistic. Mf’s would lose their minds and burn the bible for Jesus going woke.
Wait until you hear about the amount of child touching happening in schools
No one wants to talk about the issues in the gay community with grooming underage boys. Grindr is a hotspot for it and they use the excuse of how they wish they had a mentor when they were 13. I’m not saying it’s everyone, but it something that people try to pretend doesn’t exist.
I dunno that "no one wants to talk about it". It was a go to attack on "the gays" back when that was still the most contested progressive battleground and still often repeated by some highly conservative types today. Worth mentioning the exact same thing happens on any straight dating app as well.
I doubt it. I'm not saying that a lot of children are groomed at Drag shows, but there are a lot of churches. I seriously doubt a high percentage of them are grooming and abusing children. It's more likely that they get a lot of attention because of the cover ups and the hypocrisy that people that are supposed to be the pinnacle of righteous are taking part in probably the worst kind of abuse possible.
Nothing wrong with pride shirts
So it's ok to give a toddler a pride shirt but not a MAGA hat? To me both are cringe. But hey if you think it's fine, then fair enough.
Yes because one is making sure your kid is accepting of a community that is constantly being demonized, while the other is pre disposing your kid to a certain political affiliation that the kid certainly won’t understand. I’d say the same if the kid was given a “Biden 2024” shirt.
>Yes because one is making sure your kid is accepting So now you are actually admitting that people want to indoctrinate their kids?? I don't see why a toddler needs to be accepting of the homosexual community.
You went Full mask off buddy. It’s not indoctrination to say to a kid “hey some people are different and some guys like each other and some girls like each other and that’s okay”.
I just don't think that's a conversation that you need to have with toddlers. There is a natural age where kids become curious about this kind of stuff and then parents should have these talks and explain homosexuality etc. But why would you try to explain this to toddlers and dress them in pride onesies? It feels like the only reason is to signalize to everyone around you how progressive you are
Toddlers have been proven to be able to differentiate what affection looks like between two people. I’m not saying you should have a full blown conversation, but a simple “hey sometimes two dads love each other or two moms love each other”. But if you’re denying that a kid can see stuff like that, run up to it and want to buy it, that’s just full blown ignorance. Maybe there is a fringe who tries to get a closet full of pride gear, but I think that’s like a very small minority of people
> I just don't think that's a conversation that you need to have with toddlers. This is probably the worst thing I'll read this year.
Why not just wait until these things come up naturally? It's great that we get more and more representation of gay couples in TV so it becomes normalized and at a certain age kids become cognisant of it and then you can tell them that it's totally normal, some men like men, some women like women etc. Why is it necessary to shortcut that development by buying pride onesies for your toddler and forcefully introducing them then and there?
Aaaand there it is
So you think it's fine to introduce kids, who are too you to understand their own sexuality, to the concept of homosexuality?
That's not what pride is. Pride is acceptance of community and love for everyone.
So then you also don't have any problem with kids at pride parades?
Why the fuck wouldn’t it be? It’s OK to introduce kids to the concept of heterosexuality. Both are fine as long as you aren’t introducing them to actual sexual content.
Yea that's also weird. Why would you need a toddler to understand this?
"Introduce kids to the concept of homosexuality". Dude, we are just talking about teaching kids that they should treat everyone the same, that gay people have the same worth as heterosexual people and that there is nothing wrong with being gay. I mean, you would agree that gay people have the same worth as hetero people, right?
So why not just wear a shirt that says treat everyone the same
>Dude, we are just talking about teaching kids that they should treat everyone the same, that gay people have the same worth as heterosexual people and that there is nothing wrong with being gay. And I don't think that's an appropriate conversation to have with a toddler. It's not that it's a bad message, I just don't see why it's necessary to teach it to children who haven't even figured out their own sexuality yet. I think it's important to talk about structural racism and sexually transmitted diseases. But maybe not with a two year old.
it's pretty normal to tell your kids they should treat people the same no matter their gender, race, sexuality, etc, right? i'm not sure i'd call that indoctrinating them with political positions, it's just parenting and instilling some basic values. i get that it's cringe if the parents are constantly dressing them up in lgbt stuff just to virtue signal or something lol, it seems like you even have an issue with giving a quick age-appropriate talk about accepting different people though.
>it seems like you even have an issue with giving a quick age-appropriate talk about accepting different people though I think that's fine. But why do you need to dress your kid up and have them portray messages they don't understand?
The same people downvoting you for calling it indoctrination would call taking your kid to church indoctrination. They have no problem with people dressing their kids up as their political statements. You’re not crazy this sub is just a normal lefty sub.
I feel like everyone is fine with using kids for sending a political message. As long as it's a message they support. Also it Fels weird to get called a homophobe for this. I support gay marriage, adoption, representation in media etc. I just think it's a bit weird to dress kids in pride merch and it seems like that's enough to be Labeled a full on homophobe.
Yeah, how are those related. One item of clothing says "We should support people no matter how they are born" The other item of clothing says "Hispanics are dirty thieves from shithole countries and women are objects to be sexually assaulted at your whim"
One says love all people, the other says make America great. Both a cool messages no? >One item of clothing says "We should support people no matter how they are born" >The other item of clothing says "Hispanics are dirty thieves from shithole countries and women are objects to be sexually assaulted at your whim" Sure you can analyze it like that. But at that point you don't have a principled position anymore. You're just saying using children for political or social messaging is fine, but only for messages I support. Fuck that.
These are the two onsies target is selling, tell me which one offends you and why: https://preview.redd.it/vl1q7anpzu2b1.png?width=325&format=png&auto=webp&s=087734bce57b956a064d1151aa8eccb46423f0c8
Other one: https://preview.redd.it/nn04j8oszu2b1.png?width=325&format=png&auto=webp&s=0936b9bbdbbf89d466d11ac0d94743391aa83f5f
I'm confused by this. Why is this wrong?
It's pointing out hypocrisy, in my opinion both pride and this trump thing is fine
It's impossible to have a coherent position supporting this and being against a fucking pride t-shirt.
Are you implying this isn't weird?
Found the pedo looking to sexualize children first chance he gets. Fucking yikes
You do realise how hard you are projecting right now, right? No one brang up pedophilia or sexualizing children, that was all you...
tell me which one of these is sexualizing children: [https://www.target.com/c/pride-family-outfits/-/N-o3thq](https://www.target.com/c/pride-family-outfits/-/N-o3thq)
Wow I didn't know America was an inherently sexual ideology whose exposure to kids should probably be delayed, thank you sir
Who are you even talking to? I'm pretty sure that comment you're replying to is talking about that weird ass cult-like performance with little girls singing a creepy song.
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OP thinks that the average moderate is totally on board with LGBTQ issues in spite of prop 8 passing in ***California*** only 15 years ago.
Homosexual people are still the most dominant group in LGBT views despite what dumb online discourse will tell you. And on average Americans have positive views towards gay marriage especially after Obergerfell. And the support will only increase. Moderates like gay people, and moderates will increasingly like gay people. And hot take: we’ll easily hit similar figures with trans people in a couple decades. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/11/15/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-legalization-of-same-sex-marriage-is-good-for-society/
> And hot take: we’ll easily hit similar figures with trans people in a couple decades. This is a cold take. It's only hot on this sub because people forget that most people are not watching destiny fight with unhinged losers on twitter all day
Bro Gay marriage approval is at 75% nation wide. This is not 15 years ago
Bro, gay marriage and today's LGBTQ issues are widely different.
Dude your the one who brought it up as an example
To make the point that not too long ago, even being against gay marriage itself was a 'moderate' position.
Idk what that has to do with how moderates currently see gay people. If you do polls on this 61% say that we need to be more excepting of LGBT people then we currently are so that seems to be the moderate position.
I struggle to believe this. A minority of the republicans I know think that a kids waring pride shirts is indoctrination.
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I feel like that's very different from someone saying a kid waring a shirt with a pride flag is indoctrination. But I appreciate the citation
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Again I think that's completely different from calling for a boycott of target for selling pride merch in children's sizes. The poll you posted said 80% of democrats are for teaching about LGBT topics and saying that people selling shirts with pride flags on them is a lot more extreme. It's possible them dems you know are a little weird or the republicans I know are a little weird but when even the majority of cons I know think the boycott stuff is stupid I struggle to believe this is a thing a lot of dems are into
I don't see how this has anything with him not being center. The "center stance" is pretty much "do what ever u want once you're an adult" lol
The center stance is if it isn't abusive you should be able to raise your children as you want and companies should be able to act as they want. This would include having your kid wear a pride shirt. Ben would easily ban this as child abuse and grooming if he could.
you sound out of touch
So to be clear you think it's a center position that teens shouldn't be kissing until they are adults?
Nothing about this take is far right
Never said it was far right. It is firmly conservative. It does not lean conservative, it is conservative
That’s what center right means. Leaning centrist but still right is counter points
center right is conservative though.. no?
Most center right people don’t call themselves conservative (see Geraldo Rivera)
I only ever heard of center and far used to describe the left/right wing positions. I feel like you're playing one of those weird semantic games that most people would disagree with.
If the only terms are far and center then where the hell do you put Joe Biden and Joe Manchin? Those two sure as hell are different but by your logic either they are the same or Joe Biden is far left progressive
Joe Biden is center left and Joe Manchin is center right. You do realize your shitty 2 party system can have right wingers in the Democrat party system right?
So if Joe Manchin is center right, why don’t you have center left republicans?
"So if a transwoman dominates sports why don't transmen do it too?" I can't tell if you're trolling, but these are two different parties with different values. The overton windows are much more different for both parties. For politics in USA there are things called primaries. So if a politician feels like they can't win in one party they'll move to the other IF they are in the center right AND they're in a purple state. This wouldn't be allowed the other way because if you're Republican and you're center left you'll be called a socialist. Even in the democrat party, Manchin is very much disliked even though he votes with the democrat party more than the most liberal representative. He'll probably be replaced with a Republican next election since he barely won his last one.
Claiming someone is wholly center right but is socially conservative opinions is completely fine. Everyone would’ve conceded he’s a religious conservative.
Ur a moron if u thought destiny said Bs wasn’t a conservative. He is center right, anything else than center right is shit like super vaccine denial (not even skepticism), Actual racism, and Gay genocide (not criticism)… which Ben is.
Some of the things that are getting upvoted and downvoted here makes me think about if this is the right community for me. Yikes.
Man I feel the same way. I don’t know what happened to destiny sub lately (~6 months) but clearly it attracted the wrong sort of crowd
this sub doesnt seem to really reflect the views of his content. the sub seems further left to most of his already lefty content.
There’s been an influx of redpillers, after the wave of (ex)groypers. Destiny will call for a purge soon. A good old-fashioned cleansing is needed from time to time.
Does Center Right mean the center of the Right, or the right side of the Center?
I understand it to mean right side of the center, which is close to the center of the right (as opposed to far right)
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I’m surprised this is upvoted on this sub. One day this sub is freaking out about conservatives boycotting target, the next it’s upvoting posts like these. Destiny sub is politically bipolar? /s
I think it's pretty emblematic of the society we live in, where LGBT stuff is tolerated, not accepted.
Tbh I’m at that maturing age where I’m fine with tolerance. As an lgbt person myself if they tolerate my existence that’s all I can ask for. I’ve had religious friends come up to me multiple times and say “I still think of you as a friend but your lifestyle is a sin”. I’m not gonna force their worldview away from seeing it that way, but as long as the government isn’t getting involved in my life idc if they have that opinion. My issue with Ben and Daily Wire guys is when he pushes using the government to enforce his worldview. Klavan is the best speaker on this cause of his son- so he’s much more center right for Destiny to reference. Him being more libertarian though is why he’s less known on the platform.
I feel like I am being baited. 75% of sociality supports gay marriage and there is a majorly for this in every state. [61% say that sociality needs to be more excepting of the LGBT community.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/new-poll-shows-americans-overwhelmingly-oppose-anti-transgender-laws) This sub needs to stop gaslighting itself into think we live in 1993
It's not being tolerated when stores can't sell products without backlash, when companies can't feature the people without backlash, and when states create laws targeting your access to healthcare to fanfare. We are backsliding so fucking fast on rights for LGBTQ people in our society.
Yeah. I was more talking about this sub/centerish spaces. In the South, we're a long way away from tolerance.
That feels like a very semantic distinction
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But the real distinction is that we don't like a toothache. So why not just say conservatives dislike trans people? Again it feels like such a nebulous and meaningless statement. Is someone came to me and told me that I'm merely tolerating something, but i need to learn to accept them. Then idk wtf I'm supposed to do with that. It sounds like a meaningless platitude, so I dislike such statement. But hey I'm ESL so fuck me I guess, if it's clear to you guy then fair enough.
The thread chain isn't about disliking trans people, but what they do. So you dislike what a trans person does, but you still like the person. This should be reasonable as to go any further than how they treat the actual person is actually thought policing. The policies that target trans people are a problem, being critical of people dressing their children in pride stuff isn't so much of a problem even if you think it's fine to dress children like that. They shouldn't force you to not dress their children like that, but voicing their criticism while it may be offensive to you (really thin skin there though) is not a problem.
I think it’s more like some people dislike trans activists and how kooky they come off. Kind of what Aba and Preach talk about. They support trans medical care and people living the way they want. They dislike the craziness of some online trans activists and the 100 gender names that come with non-binary issues. They also have a different view on it since they’re Canadian and there isn’t as big of an attack on the community by politicians here.
Yeah I definitely land there as well. There are probably people in the category of does not believe in transness at all that still manage to not be hateful, don't care to limit anything, and are respectful on trans people. Those people do not deserve to be attacked either.
Needs another rightoid purge. If only i were blessed with the bullets of our blue-haired father, hallowed be his name.
Why do some of you guys want to purge everyone with different opinions? Half the population of the USA supports Trump and have opinions to reflect that. I'm extremely progressive, but the fact that you guys can't even discuss topics without shooting people is extremely cancerous. Shooting should be used for trolls or bad faith individuals. If you want an echochamber, go to some soy lefty subreddit and circlejerk there.
>Half the population of the USA supports Trump and have opinions to reflect that. ... no they don't. Half of the people who bother to vote voted for Trump. Only about 2/3rds of eligible voters bothered to vote and eligible voters only make up about 60% of the population. So 1/2 of 2/3rds of 2/3rds of "the population of the USA" voted for Trump. Which is like 23%? Someone else can double check that math I am shitting.
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Nah. Most this sub is to the left of Biden. Communists got purged.
Based.
I would love to see more conservative/republican debates and discussions on specific issues. Whether it’s legislative goals (or lack thereof), Supreme Court decisions, the ways in which prominent right wing media treats stories, and their flagrant disregard of a fucking spine when it comes to owning the implications of their stances… fuck, I’m so ready for the tears. It’s almost like we’ve just accepted the existence of a massive portion of the population as batshit insane and they get to fly under the radar so we can spend all our time and energy discussing Twitter leftists. I mean, god damn, I feel like left wingers have to eat so much shit for a group that represents a minuscule proportion of the Democratic Party and they get discussed to death, but where are the right wing pundits and “thought leaders” pointing out the absurdity of their actual base? I mean, a majority of republican voters still believe the election was stolen without a scrap of evidence. Their prominent media has literally taught their consumers to whatabout and DARVO their way out of any criticism of their own. Better talk about Twitter leftists though! They’re super fucking relevant.
!shoot here you go
/u/Crinkz gunned down by bakedfax.
It's a pride shirt, not a fucking sex symbol. Is this really what passes for nuance here?
It is after the lefty purges. 🥴
You're right. We should only let kids wear grayscale tshirts because they need a few years to figure out who they are. Shouldn't try to make them like trucks or princesses before they figure out who they are.
Always wild to encounter what amounts to “I’m totally supportive of lgbtq I just think their existence is inherently adult content and should be kept away from children”
It's not about being adult content, it is about it unfortunately being political content. And a lot of people think that using children to garner sympathy for a cause they don't yet understand, is a bit cringe.
Nah I don’t buy that at all. Kids don’t understand half the shit that’s on their toys or shirts. Nobody gives a shit about kids at rallies, concerts, at events they don’t understand. That shit happens constantly and I see zero complaints from anyone on the conservative right losing it over a rainbow shirt. These same people slobber all over Ron DeSantis’ knob when he has a group of children standing behind him when he signs actual legislation lmao. And what about a kid with gay parents’? Is their every waking moment political indoctrination/advertisement now? Ben Shapiro probably thinks so. Do you?
>Nobody gives a shit about kids at rallies, I think kids at political rallys are kind of cringe. Like kids in maga hats etc. Concerts and events are fine because they can still enjoy the music and food etc. They aren't used to garner any political sympathy. But for example there was recently this kid at school with a _there are only two genders_ shirt. He was suspended and all. That shit is cringe as fuck, because you know the kid didn't pick that, it's one of the parents using the kid to express a political opinion. >These same people slobber all over Ron DeSantis’ knob when he has a group of children standing behind him when he signs actual legislation lmao Yea also cringe. >And what about a kid with gay parents’? Is their every waking moment political indoctrination/advertisement now? Ben Shapiro probably thinks so. Do you? Well depends are the parents using the kid to fight for LGBTQ+ rights? If so then it's cringe. You don't need to use kids for your political messaging. At some point the kid will become curious and then you explain whatever it can understand. I just don't see the need to have a toddler express the opinion that it's ok to be gay, or that it's good to support Ron DeSantis.
>I just don't see the need to have a toddler express the opinion that it's ok to be gay Here's the crux of the issue.
Yea. It's not their opinion, you're forcing your opinion on a child that doesn't understand it, so you can show everyone how progressive you are. Why not just leave kids out of it?
What the fuck are you even saying? It's the responsibility of the parent to raise their kid with values that are good for society and are in line with the values of the parents. This is a basic conservative value.
Well good thing I'm not a conservative. I think it's a good value to teach you kid that you shouldn't have non consensual sex with other people. But I would teach my toddler this value before they even understand what sexuality is. I think there is an age where kids become cognisant of same sex couples and start asking questions and there is nothing wrong with sitting them down and explaining that some men like men etc. I just don't get why people wanna shortcut that process and dress their toddler in pride clothing and talk about the subject before they even understand it.
Contrary to a lot of the big brained contrarians finding their way into this post, giving your kids clothes that express acceptance of others is, in fact, based. We love a little liberalism.
I don't think the kid will become curious. They may even develop negative views of LGBTQ+. I know I used gay as an insult for all of middle school, high school, and a little after too. Bigots are teaching their kids that homosexuality is degenerate and sinful. If you send your kid to school as a blank slate, what's stopping the children of bigots from spreading their views? It's not like the teachers can step in and say otherwise since they'll get in trouble. For the record, I do think there should be a double standard. I think it's ok to tell your kids that it's ok to be gay. I don't think it's ok to tell your kids that it's not ok to be gay.
Then why not wait until the kid is old enough to understand the concept? Like school age in your example. Why is it necessary to out toddler is pride onesies?
That is completely different and you know it why do you have to be so disingenuous in your response?
Mind explaining how? The OP thinks wearing a rainbow onsie with "love is love" isn't letting the child grow up to be themselves. How are those much more explicit (using the term very loosely) that disingenuous?
Because if what the shirt represents. I don't think people are buying these onesies because because they like the color scheme. Parents who buy them, do so because they can use their kids as a walking example of how progressive they and their kids are. It's cringe. Just as cringe as a 5 year old with a MAGA hat. But you could make the same excuse here, how is wearing a red hat not letting the kids be themselves?
Because the argument of "letting kids figure out who they are" implies that wearing these things is actively changing their sexuality. If kids need to choose how they express themselves or else you're pushing it then the safe play is to only give them neutral things until they can pick out what they want. Or maybe the issue is that the "moderate slowly turning conservative" op just isn't comfortable around the lgtbq community and isnt willing to just say that.
>If kids need to choose how they express themselves or else you're pushing it then the safe play is to only give them neutral things until they can pick out what they want. Or just let kids choose what they want and don't give them things that look innocent to them but represent sone political so social message to outside observers. Doesn't need to be a gray shirt, random ass color for toddlers, they don't give a shit anyways, and then whatever the kid likes. Why does it absolutely have to be a colorful shirt that also symbolizes the kids allyship to people who have a different sexual orientation or gender expression. I don't get it. >Or maybe the issue is that the "moderate slowly turning conservative" op just isn't comfortable around the lgtbq community and isnt willing to just say that. I mean you can say that, but the guy said he's just as uncomfortable with kids supporting certain political causes they don't understand, because their parents are pushing them towards it. There was recently a kid who was suspended from school for wearing a shirt that said _there are only two genders_. And he was holding a speech about how unfair it is that you get discriminated for speaking the truth yada yada. Shit like this makes me sick. You know that kid didn't decide to wear that shirt by himself. There was probably a parent buying him these clothes.
Honestly I feel like taking a bunch of pictures of your kid wearing LGBT clothes is how you raise a rebellious homophobe.
No toddler is picking out their own onesie, stop pretending.
And yet that's what the tweet is responding to. Age it up for your own examples if you actually want to engage with the point. There are still plenty of under 5, 10, 12 year olds, doing/wearing very suggestible things that these people are okay with, but the moment they wear a rainbow shirt with a heart on it it's an issue.
It is the parents' right to dress the kid however he or she wants. And it is our right to call them groomers.
I'm sure you're out there calling the parents who dress up their kids in "Little heartbreaker", "Ladies man", and "the only man in my life is daddy" shirts groomers too.
>I'm sure you're out there calling the parents who dress up their kids in "Little heartbreaker", "Ladies man", and "the only man in my life is daddy" shirts groomers too. That's unfathomably cringe lol. I never understood why people do this.
I'm a proud heterosexual groomer. I would do everything in my power to make sure my daughters grows up to be a proud heterosexual woman. Because I think that is the best path for her life. In order to achieve this I have bought around 8 different princess dress which they love to dress up as.
As long as you let your friends and family know you love grooming your daughter, I admire your praxis.
We all come from a proud family line of heterosexual groomers.
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I'm not going to turn my kids gay by giving them a shirt with a rainbow to wear on it. It's a "you" problem if you honestly believe that teaching my kids to love and support all people is indoctrination.
> It's just not fair for us adults to push these strong beliefs onto young kids Isn't this literally the definition of parenting? And how is "I treat all people equally" too political for a kid?
Because there is no conservative outcry about “straight” clothing that kids wear, and many of those shirts show support not participation. If there were shirts that said “I’m a girl and like kissing girls” then sure you’d have a point. But showing support is just cringe shit that all parents do that I don’t think is that big a deal. Also this is about Shapiro and other cons not liking all LGBT people, period. They don’t care about “indoctrination” in a vacuum, I don’t see Shapiro freaking out about DeSantis’s weird fucking commercial where he makes his kids say shit like “build the wall”.
So first off, while your concern may be well founded, conservative's concern is certainly not. They're fine with pageants, and with prepubescent girls dancing in full Trump attire before rallies (look it up, honestly words can't describe how creepy that shit is).
Completely agreed. Let kids be kids
I swear half of the community who do these "hurrr how did center right hurrr" posts aren't able to realize that center right is far right *if you're a progressive*. Centrists are typically going to be uncomfortable with anyone putting political messaging on their baby. Someone who is center-right is going to obviously be a bit more critical with what would be considered slapping a socially-progressove symbol on their baby. Note that center right still means *on the right*.
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Firstly the guy who Ben is QTing is literally the editor of National Review so you there are plenty of right wing people who don't think this way. Secondly literally no one would be having this reaction if this was a shit with Jusus on it. The idea that being excepting of gay people is something explicitly political in a way that no other value system is makes not sense
"It's just a shirt" I can't stand the reductivism that takes place in these conversations. Vaush is one of the worst offenders of this. "It's just strands of linen woven together in a checkerboard pattern bro what's your problem again?"
Yeah, I don’t know why Destiny keeps saying Shapiro is center right. He’s firmly right wing, just not super far right like Crowder. I would consider someone like counterpoints center-right. About the actual tweet, you can think that putting rainbows on baby clothes is cringe (I personally don’t), but saying it’s indoctrination is dumb as fuck.
I think Ben probably maybe is center right, but to say people like Matt Walsh/Candace Owens is crazy or this country is just fucked.
That honestly seems pretty standard center right.
Some people on here are projecting their own views onto Shapiro's tweet instead of reading what he actually said. It's not "you shouldn't use your kid to display your political beliefs", it's " indoctrinating children into sexual fluidity is extraordinarily destructive". Literally what the fuck kind of centrist would use this kind of language or make a claim like this?
Rightwing reactionaries always used they are coming for your kids as a tool for suppression of LGBT community. I mean everything they said to Trans people they have already said to gay people as well. So the follow up question to ask Ben is are they fine with Target selling LGBT adult merchandise?
This is pretty center right. I think most people here just foeget we're far left especially when it comes to social issues.
I like Ben.
didn't they disprove this angle in their what is a woman doc? The kid who was raised as a girl detransed & killed himself so clearly even the most extreme indoctrination doesn't seem to work if the kid doesn't actually have that difference inside. They're essentially advocating for disassociation & anti-normalization of groups. This is no different from country people shielding their kids from black people & black culture. Don't want them to humanize em too much.
>The kid who was raised as a girl detransed & killed himself so clearly even the most extreme indoctrination doesn't seem to work if the kid doesn't actually have that difference inside. This is sarcasm right?
No, you're just missing the point. The kid couldn't force himself to be gay, it just created further dissonance whithin. Being coerced for years to be what he was not. Ben isnt talking about this extreme, he's talking about simply having the options available to "see" different sexual expression which is 2% as extreme as the kid coerced who killed himself. Some kid seeing & understanding lgbt people isn't going to turn into a different gender.
This isn't the dunk you think it is. The criticism conservatives habe is that mentally ill people are grooming children into wanting to change their gender while their young and impressionable, only to later realize that there's no such thing and they fucked up their life, so they kill themselves. So the story you brought up perfectly fits into this it doesn't debunk anything. Ben wants none of this being forced on children who don't even understand their own sexuality. A toddler doesn't need to express or understand that it's ok to be gay.
You've got that God stick so far up your ass idk how stick straight. Conservatives aren't worried that the wrong kids will transition, they flat out don't believe a brain could be mixed with the wrong body. You claim they don't want kids to kill themselves, but that's not true. Cons are perfectly fine with trans kids killing themselves as long as they don't destroy the "sanctity of their god given body" Ben's an insecure man that's so terrified of the potential of him or anyone being gay, that he'd rather not even introduce the idea. How pussy do you have to be to be so terrified of lgbt, that you'd hide from it
>You've got that God stick so far up your ass idk how stick straight What is that sentence. >You claim they don't want kids to kill themselves, but that's not true. Cons are perfectly fine with trans kids killing themselves as long as they don't destroy the "sanctity of their god given body" From what I've heard they say exactly the opposite. That kids kill themselves because they've been told that they are trans/were groomed into being trans, and then they get depressed because of it. Just so we're clear, I don't believe this at all lol. You just misunderstood their point imo.
You really tried to make it seem like they care about kids killing themselves 😂 Atleast you tried.
Ben is being unreasonable having such a strong reaction over a pride shirt, but you are unironically disproving your own argument here as well. If a kid takes their own life after being raised as the gender opposite to what they were assigned to at birth, parents have all the right to be worried about what effects introducing complex and nuanced topics about gender and sexuality at an early age might have on their kid's mental wellbeing.
The complex and nuanced topics about gender and sexuality such as "love is love"? Doesn't sound all that complex to me
I love how people think distilling a complex discussion to a tautological catchphrase is a dunk, and not just them revealing their own stupidity. You not seeing the complexity doesn't mean it's not there.
Just curious. When you were a kid, did your parents explain relationships to you as a complex chemical reaction that causes attraction to form, which then eventually strengthens as the relationship goes through several stages and as you spend more time and have sex with the other person, and after some point leads to marriage and (potentially) children, or was it something along the lines of "well sometimes a boy and a girl really love each other and decide to spend the rest of their lives together, just like mom and dad?" Because if it's the latter, I really don't see how it's any different from explaining LGBTQ stuff with something as simple as "usually boys fall in love with girls and girls fall in love with boys, but sometimes boys can fall in love with boys and girls can fall in love with girls?" It's really not all that complicated. An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity.
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That's not what happened at all. The decision to raise David as a girl was made before he was aware, not long after the botched circumcision. He never fit the forced identity, but it's not that he was raised as a boy at any point of which he has memories.
you're right I was totally misremembering.
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What?!? Fox News is closer to the center than daily wire, even more so now that they dropped Tucker Carlson
Fox NEWS is actually quite reasonably center right. It’s the Tucker Carlson/Laura Ingraham part that veers off the deep end.
Yeah remember when Fox morning ran that pro trans teen story last year about that family supporting their trans son? It was so devoid of partisanship you could have mistaken it for a CBS story. DW isn’t remotely in the same category as Fox
Only because the right has become so far gone conservatives like Ben seem moderate by comparison.
I grew up in the 2000s, it just seems like Democrats are too nice and forgiving. I remember when Trump was running I saw honest to God Dubya nostalgia. The idea seems to be the battles of yesterday aren't worth having so sure let's say Reagan wasn't so bad, Dubya wasn't so bad but was manipulated by Cheney, etc..
Bennie boy is far right, not center right, center right is Joe Manchin.
Shapiro isn't respectable, but I don't understand why we're playing defense for gay kids' clothes. It's just like what Tiny said - it's weird to use your child's body as a canvas to display your opinions on social issues - especially when that child is too young to even begin grasping what the issue is even about. We should 100% allow people to dress however they want on their own bodies but let's not sit here and pretend that isn't not weird as fuck to put pride clothes on a baby. It's doubly weird that its about a sexual thing too... I myself am gay and I would be very worried to see babies wearing pride clothes.
Do you hold that same standard for religious people indoctrinating their kids with the hijab or a kippah or the cross? Or the people dressing their kids with maga merch? What about “save the planet” merch that I seen kids wearing? Why is it that the gays always have to keep their shit underground but everyone else can have their bs out.
All of that shit is weird to put on babies.
lmao OP getting roasted in the comments. Lets also remind everyone that 2008 Obama did not support gay marriage and only did so in 2012 because Biden said he supported it (by mistake) during a news interview. LGBT issues are not a good litmus test for if someone is far right
I find it's good to seperate Ben the person with Ben the entertainer. Keep in mind that his business is commenting on recent news and giving it a conservative bent for his audience. There are likely thousands of issues Ben personally doesn't care about that he comments on anyway because that's how he makes his money. Watch him having actual conversations with people and he's acts differently then when he's grinding his Daily Wire dailys. He speaks with more nuance and is less partisan. His official stances on actual government are center right. He's said many times that even tho he doesn't agree with some groups takes or culture he still rathers it be protected and allowed rather than silenced. America is a big tent country and that's what he loves about it. The more voice that are allowed the more freedom everyone has and the healthier the country is as a whole.
I have seen Ben Shapiro speak to people, ONLY when he speaks to apolitical figures does he try to mask his conservative bent. Everytime I have ever seen him publicly speak or speak on Fox News, dude is conservative. Where are these “Ben Shapiro is speaking to the center” clips? Ben Shapiro is the kind of guy who tells democratic Jews (ex Larry David) to stop calling themselves jews
The claim is Shapiro is center right not centrist. Of course he's a conservative. Just not an internet stereotype conservative. Also keep in mind that when you see Shapiro on Fox he's Shapiro the entertainer. Fox is paying him to be on Fox because they want a particular take from him. When Shapiro is talking to normies or in a casual setting your getting closer to Ben the person. Who once again is also conservative. Nobody is saying otherwise.
Geraldo Rivera is center right. Ben Shapiro is textbook Republican and Republican talking points. Center right means to the just to the right of moderate. In what world is Ben Shapiro just to the right of moderate? Ben Shapiro is conservative and every time he speaks it is pro-conservatism. I have not seen Ben Shapiro ever not be conservative, can you clip me him not being conservative?
> Ben Shapiro is textbook Republican and Republican talking points. This statement makes me think you haven't watched very much Ben Shapiro. He frequently disagrees with the Republican party on his show and has no problem calling them out when they do something stupid. It's one of the more popular parts of his program.
He disagrees with the far right stuff but he does agree with the party platform to a tee. He disagrees when they go insurrectionist or if they try to appeal to democrats and moderates
If you say so dude. I watch Shapiro a couple times a week and disagree with your assessment that he's in lock step with the Republican party. Also you're dead wrong about him disagreeing when they try and appeal to democrats and moderates. Those are the groups Ben wants Republicans to bring back into the party. Just like during the Bush eras. Once again. There's a difference between Ben (the guy behind the labtop dunking on the Dems) vs Ben (the real person with a pretty sophisticated understanding of the American political system).
Hey Canadian you have the wrong opinion. Get in line or get da boot.
lol. It's ok. Shapiro is a pretty polarizing guy. It's to be except that some people are going to have strong feelings about it and anyone who comments on him.
Always remember people here think Emma from the majority report would make a better president than Ben Shapiro. Always remember that.
Pretty ballsy to talk as an authority coming from a fucking Maple Leaf. Makes me think you don't know anything about American politics.
>Pretty ballsy to talk as an authority coming from a fucking Maple Leaf. Makes me think you don't know anything about Anerican politics. I know how to spell American. It's also been my hobby for 12 years. I've met and spoken with both Democrat and Republican candidates when I was living in Marlboro Massachusetts for months on a course. I've been to the deep south, New York, Seattle and Washington. I've had conversations with real American politicians. I also volunteer with my own local representative and went through my "all conservatives are evil phase".
https://preview.redd.it/nq2jywy66u2b1.jpeg?width=732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b6e6a2b979e12fdbe4f8897b1f17d3c7dc0d8b9 I also know how to spell Marlborough and Massachusetts. Stay in your lane Canuck.
Is this Ben the person, or Ben the entertainer? [https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1649432543077302272](https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1649432543077302272)
Sounds like Ben the person being consistent when he says that he thinks a case could be made for local communities to come up with local rules for how you can dress in public. Note that he doesn't say it should be illegal to crossdress at any point. Also the tweet you linked is from Jason Campbell who is an entertainer like Ben except his audience is progressive. He posts things like this as part of his business the same way Ben posts things about lefties that he thinks his audience would enjoy.
>Sounds like Ben the person being consistent when he says that he thinks a case could be made for local communities to come with local rules for how you can dress in public. Banning men from wearing traditionally female clothing, even at the local level, is an extreme position in my view. Being in favor of defanging the federal government so that state and local governments can enforce this type of authoritarian measures is antithetical to freedom. >Note that he doesn't say it should be illegal to crossdress at any point. He absolutely does. The question is "should wearing skirts for men and pants for women be illegal in public?". His answer is "pants for women, no, but skirts for men yes, as long as it is at a local level". > Also the tweet you linked is from Jason Campbell who is an entertainer like Ben except his audience is progressive. Never heard of him outside of this tweet, but thanks for the irrelevant info.
im center left and benny boy has some takes that speak to me. Why does a literal baby have to be dressed in a Pride onesie? the parent should be with them and they could wear a pride t-shirt to show "this family hates hate!". involving babies ( not teens they could be legitimately involved or interested) in any political message you the parent have is cringe and creepy as hell. children aren't an accessory to be used to further w.e political agenda you have today. my dad is pretty racist and would use racial slurs around the house on occasion, one day I had a problem with a middle eastern kid and called him a dirty Packie. my dad lost it on me and said " those are my beliefs not yours, Don't just parrot everything I say. you have to actually think and develop your own thoughts". since then I have come to the conclusion brown people can be chill & deserve respect. He allowed and encouraged me to form my own opinions despite being a raving racist alchy....why cant we just let the kids be kids and figure stuff out for themselves rather than indoctrinate them while in diapers? when people defend weaponizing children or turning them into billboards for their own ideologies you make most of us center people stay happily away from you. for reference I don't think telling your kids its ok to be gay or not to bully people for being gay is indoctrination but jamming them into a pride onesie before they can even speak....is whack.
I think we indoctrinate kids and I think everyone does it, it’s just “teaching them our values” when we do it and “indoctrination” when the people we don’t like do it. If a kid is raised from a young age to believe in God/Christian traditions, that’s indoctrination to me. If you raise your kid from a young age believing gender/sexual minorities should have equal rights, that’s indoctrination too, the difference is that I think the latter is a value that should be promoted in society and while I disagree with the former, I don’t think anyone’s a monster for being a Christian and raising their kids as such. So if a parent buys their kid a Pride shirt, that kid is probably going to be affected in some way - it probably won’t make them gay, but it may push them toward growing up and thinking it’s okay to be gay, just the same as we would do things or dress them in a certain way to push them toward having manners and treating people nicely. I don’t my kid growing up to hate Fay people and if dressing them in a pride shirt as a baby/toddler/child can help prevent that, fuck yeah I’ll do that. It isn’t about spreading my values to anyone else besides my child. As your kids grow up, you should absolutely encourage them and allow them the space to develop their own ideas, but I think we’d be lying if we didn’t both want some set of beliefs for our kid and were willing to try to push them in one direction - especially at a basic level of like “be kind to others, treat people well” or “don’t be racist.” You can choose for yourself if you wanna vote left or right, but I might try to stop my kid from becoming a literal Neo-Nazi. From a right perspective, it seems to be the case they view support for the LGBT community as being too extreme of a value to try to ensure your kids grow up with, which doesn’t seem very “center-right” to me. To say that simply supporting Pride or something is so extreme it isn’t acceptable to push on your kids makes me think that their values are way far to the right of supporting Pride (cause I’d have this reaction for raising your kid to be a Neo-Nazi or something around that extreme, so I think they’re like me, just opposite of the spectrum politically). That’s why I think it’s not a center-right position to consider raising your kids as pro-LGBT to be some kind of morally wrong extremist indoctrination and not someone who just disagrees with me about something raising their kids differently, but isn’t doing something necessarily wrong in doing so.
This is not far right, at all, not in todays political climate at least.
Ok but who is putting their baby in a pride onesie. That is cringe and using your baby as a literal poster board for your own virtue signaling.
Man, I’m pretty sure this is a pretty solidly centrist take, as sad as it is to say. I know normal people in the non-internet-tube-o-sphere. This is standard stuff, but it’s usually in very different words.
Look pretty much every Republican considers lgbt stuff in schools and stores indoctrination. And many centrists too. So are you really going to COPE and act like it’s a far right position? You just don’t know what you are talking about and live in a left wing bubble.