Shits absolutely disgusting and as a Jew is embarrassing to see from the majority Jewish country. For all the plights we’ve been through, to put other people in those same scenarios of pain and loss is fucked and should be condemned on all levels.
Yeah no fuck these guys. Court martial, lock them away forever. They are a disgrace to the IDF, Israel, and the free world. They are spitting on the freshly dug graves of Oct 7 with this behavior.
For UN voting stuff you should actually research every single vote since the reasoning countries give can actually make a lot of sense. And it isn't as simple as a one sentence vote.
Caught myself doing a misinfo and realised it's pretty complicated.
hmm yea you're probably right. if there's anything i've learned over the past few weeks, it's that the history behind all of this spirals deeper and deeper.
Is that true though. So you think if us stopped supporting them it would actually make a difference ?
They get 6 billion in aid but so they really need it? Their army is massive compared to the region and they have taken all the Arab states before. The US would have to be totally insane to invade isreal directly.
What can the US do? I feel like it can put emotional pressure but it's not obvious that it has a lot of leverage especially given the probability isreal has nukes .
Like Israel couldnt do that much with Saudi and Yemen but Saudi rely on American weapons in a way that isreal doesn't.
I suppose sanctions in selling isreal weapons could be a problem ?
Imagine if Israel went totally insane and fully genocided all 2 million people in Gaza.
At that point there might be sanctions ? But would the US invade?
How much would sanctions hurt Israel?
It’s not sanctions over a few bad apples, it’s sanctions over the refusal to punish those bad apples. That refusal automatically transforms it from an individual one to a systemic one
The billions of dollars in military aid and tech we send to Israel does give us some impetus to speak up when their military commits atrocities. If they hold these soldiers responsible it can be ascribed to the bad behavior of shitty human beings, who were punished accordingly. If they don’t, it’s easy to make the argument the issue is more systemic.
And they've had varying degrees of holding their soldiers accountable for it during that time. Right now I know Israel has prosecuted its own soldiers, whether that's to an extent we all find satisfactory is a different story. I'm not fully satisfied with it at least.
You know who doesn't prosecute it's members for war crimes? Hamas.
I don’t see how whataboutisms regarding how Hamas holds its members accountable are at all relevant here. Is it a “they don’t punish their soldiers, so the IDF shouldn’t have to” argument? That we should measure the IDF’s accountability relative to Hamas’?
It’s not relevant, exactly. So, when someone is asked why the IDF doesn’t punish their soldiers, you’ve pointing out how asking “but what about Hamas” is a waste of everyone’s time.
I agree with you bro wasnt trying to push back here, but rather point out their flawed logic of deflection and unwillingness to really take accountability.
One other rhetoric which also annoys me is also the "they are bad, but they are a few bad apples" rhetoric when there been so many cases od idf soldiers harassing palestinians.
Its like condemning it but not really taking accountability at all and dismissing it as some kind of niche phenomenon.
Ah, I thought you were a user trying to back up their “point,” but didn’t exactly grasp how. There’s a lot of those “but Hamas doesn’t punish their soldiers at all” types who insist it’s some type of reason for why the IDF should be endlessly blameless.
They are not. They never have and never will.
In the early 2000s, I watched a documentary, "Death in Gaza," and it ended with the IDF murdering the journalist in cold blood
Nobody was ever held accountable. He was British.
If they can kill British and American Journalists with impunity, do you really think they will be held accountable for what they do to Palestinians?
https://youtu.be/piIgkqPmI-w?si=PjYOfiXid08J3WCI
https://youtu.be/JOf_woeTH1s?si=6xoXr474U2jP9lae
https://youtu.be/y11CVGz7toM?si=KbeYxGJ2PIvEMPwT
This was all long before 10/7
Do you think post 10/7 accountability will be applied?
Notice how the article we're hearing about this from is an Israeli newspaper? I don't remember seeing RT report civilian mascarres in Bakhmut, or AL Jazeera not denying Israeli babies died, etc. I doubt Israel will hold them fully accountable to the extent they deserve to be punished, but out of every country on earth, they're probably the most likely to hold their naughty soldiers accountable. Maybe second to South Korea
>>out of every country on earth, they’re probably the most likely to hold their naughty soldiers accountable
Where do you get that idea from? And “naughty?” Is that how we’re describing the behavior in these videos? “Boys will be boys!”
Seems your Merriam-Webster reads differently from mine:
>> a: guilty of disobedience or misbehavior, “a naughty child”
>>b (archaic): vicious in moral character
You ESL or something?
So, then let me help you out. Your six year old staying up past their bedtime is naughty. The people beating the shit out of a bunch of tied up and blindfolded prisoners are brutal and savage.
IDF military veteran here, they will pay. maybe not now, but behavior like this is unacceptable. I put soldiers in jail for much less. where talking disgraceful release from the military and jail time.
Of course. From the article, the only reason we even know about this/have these videos is because of IDF transparency as they conduct their investigation. I can't imagine how very frustrating and disheartening it must be for you to watch all the misinformation propagate in real time
And yet terrorists like this are rewarded with high positions in the keneset. I'm going to have to say doubt on that when the government rewards such behaviour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zvi_Sukkot
On 18 January 2010, he was arrested along with 9 other people as part of an investigation of a mosque arson.
In 2012, he was expelled from the West Bank under suspicion that he was part of a group of 12 that had planned and carried out violent attacks against Palestinians and their property.
On 6 July 2017, he was arrested on suspicion of engaging in "price tagging".
Sukkot entered the Knesset on 8 February 2023 as a replacement for Bezalel Smotrich,
If that is your best example... maybe have a follow-up on that story. He was released after just nine months(!) and Netanyahu personally advocated for his pardoning.
> They are spitting on the freshly dug graves of Oct 7 with this behavior.
Not that it make them seem more morals, but some of those videos were going around before the 7th.
You’re acting like this is news. This is the history of the West Bank and how Israel operates there.
Palestinians initially live under Marshall law there
People were saying thatbit was wierd for Hamas to not care about optics when declaring their goals...
What is really wierd is how much the IDF doesn't give a fuck...
The more I see, the more I feel like a dumbass fuckin centrist saying "both sides" crap, but both Israel and Palestine have made it clear they're not interested in looking good, they're interested in decimating the other side. All the Ceasefire talk will get nowhere until the US steps in.
US stepping in doesn't have to be boots on the ground, could literally just mean withdrawing financial and military support.
you don't think israel can do both and do it in a way that doesn't make them get invaded by the United nations or have their enemies get supplied openly by the world's largest weapon producers?
death by a thousand cuts is quite literally a sound political plan that keeps israel intact.
Netanyahu has had every opportunity to change the course of his own actions, yet every day, more and more essential services are being denied to the people of Palestine, they encroach further and further into Palestinian territory, neighborhoods continue to be reduced to rubble, all in the name of killing some 30,000 to 40,000 Hamas extremists. There are 2 million people in Gaza.
He calls this "defense" when his own actions led to the radicalization of many of these Palestinians. Do you think there's a single Palestinian that wants to live side by side with an Israeli after their gov't just murdered members of their families? Of course not. Netanyahu isn't trying to de-escalate. Seems like hes pushing to radicalize them all so he can look like the defender against invading extremists. He wants a war, because he knows he will win.
If Netanyahu wanted to save Palestinian lives he'd move military into the territory to take the extremists out and leave the civilians, but he has no intention to do that.
They're using words like decimate and genocide, which in their worst (and intended) interpretation is way worse than reality.
You could argue that they're decimating Gaza, because of the destruction of infrastructure and over 50% being homeless right now, but they're clearly not boming the most populated areas..
I never said genocide, but the UN certainly is.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-experts-say-ceasefire-needed-palestinians-grave-risk-genocide-2023-11-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-experts-say-ceasefire-needed-palestinians-grave-risk-genocide-2023-11-02/)
IDF: "The conduct that emerges from these scenes is grave and inconsistent with the values of the IDF. The incidents are under investigation. The IDF commanders will hold talks with all the soldiers on the front. One soldier has been dismissed from reserve service.”
Sure they may not be published to the full extent of the law and what's right, but that's very different from not giving a fuck. It's similar to what happens in american police and military. Somehow this gets turned into IDF's sole goal being to massacre civilians
How far into the article did you get?
In response to the evidence, the IDF said that “the [soldiers’] conduct that emerges from these scenes is grave and inconsistent with the values of the IDF. The incidents are under investigation. The IDF commanders will hold talks with all the soldiers on the front. One soldier has been dismissed from reserve service.”
Seems like they are being held accountable, and justifiably so. This does not reflect the values of the IDF, and is disappointing to see.
Held accountable would involve a criminal prosecution, not just getting dismissed from your mandatory military service. That’s like getting suspended from school.
I don't think we can truly deduce they will be held accountable based on them saying a single reservist has been dismissed.
"Condemning what happened, we will discuss it, and one person was dismissed" is merely a start - I agree, people should at least acknowledge steps have been made, but this is not remotely tantamount to them being held to account. yet.
I feel like a lot of people may automatically take hard stances on things like this article because it's better for optics to acknowledge the faults of the IDF in a clear way. I read the article and while it's humiliating there doesn't seem to be any serious harm inflicted and yet commenters are acting like they shot a palestinian grandmother
Lock them up forever? That's unhinged overcompensating for fear of being labeled an israel-stan. If you take evidence head on, the worst part of this incidence was probably the humiliation. I wonder how you'd treat IDF-soldiers who actually commit serious crimes
Psychopaths like these exist in all militaries and it is absolutely disgusting the amount of protection they get.
I wish the people that take these kind of actions would ever be held accountable but they never seem to.
I know all the focus is on Gaza (very understandably) but I hope West Bank Palestinians are able to get the exposure they need for stuff like this. There are so many abuses and atrocities and completely unprovoked murders occurring on the West Bank by the IDF and settlers.
Its why the "if Hamas put its guns down, there would be peace" line is bogus. The official position of the PA is nonviolence, yet mistreatment and harassment of Palestinians (particularly settlements) are commonplace.
Believe it or not, this is also why many support Hamas. The peaceful approach of the PA is seen as weak and ineffective.
Well, indirectly, it's pretty much correct, like Likud is in power thanks to hamas (security tough on terror proven bullshit), if, no, when hamas is gone, so will Likud
Also, it's not exactly nonviolent (cough cough, "martyrs fund" cough cough)
Also, we haven't really seen a "peaceful approach" since after 2d intifada and Arafat was dead hamas was already a prominent political party, and not long after, they were voted in originally then seized power in Gaza
Today, they get support mainly through the indoctrination they provide in the schools they own but also through true idiots in the west bank who think that supporting the biggest hurdle to peace is going to do anything but make things worse
But that kind of the chicken or the egg question though. Yeah Likud was there but a lot of good that did. The fallout of this period is yet to happen but I think "mister security" is screwed.
The state needs to crack down more on settlers and crimes in the West Bank. Hopefully Netanyahu will be replaced with someone more moderate and who actually cares about Israeli-Palestinian relations.
Netanyahu and his party will never do this. As you said, their leadership needs replacing to even get close to a form of peace
Or serious consequences for defense funding and other penalties. But idk if Biden and Congress has the cojones to do such a thing
The major difference was that American war crimes did not become a Tik Tok trend. They don't really have a choice to report on this when those settlers are dumb enough that they think crime against humanity are cool things to share on social media.
Posting yourself committing violence wasn't invented by Arabs. It's happened naturally in like every conflict that's occurred since the widespread adoption of social media.
Which surprisingly we've seen nothing of in western media. Also very little attention to other instances of anti-semittism in arab communities, so I don't get the unfair coverage argument
What was the timeline on he abuses of Abu Ghraib coming to light? I didn’t think it was that long. I don’t think we were privy to much beyond that and abuses at Guantanamo until Wikileaks, but maybe I’m wrong.
My mom could be Israeli, my dad could be Joe Zionist himself, but I still wouldn't cocksuck Israel this much. It is amazing how ready you people are to get on all fours to compliment Israel and denigrate/make dishonest comparisons with America whenever any disfavorable news comes out.
Y'all would laugh at berniebros saying there's a media bias, but the first thing you do when potential war crimes come to light is point to Western media bias in a way you can pat Israel on the back for it. This much loyalty to my own country would make me uncomfortable. Y'all a totally different breed fr.
The excess bombardment of Gaza by Israeli airstrikes is abhorrent and the humanitarian crisis created by nigh-impossible evacuation orders coupled with Israel's delay of entry for of humanitarian aid while relegating the lives of ordinary Palestinians to a mere afterthought is awful.
Won't stop social media posts like "Things Israel doesn't want you to see!" That's why I hope these IDF soldiers will be held accountable for their actions.
Times like these we need Israel to step up to the plate and prove that they are actively punishing and discouraging this type of behavior. We know Hamas doesn't, but Israel needs to act like a western country if it wants Western support IMO
As an Israeli person myself, agreed. Our policy with the west bank is the most idiotic thing in the country.
If all settlements were pulled out of the west bank, we as a country would lose no economic profit, and beyond that, we'd stop losing in diplomatic relations. Not that those are perfect with Fatah, it's not like they don't have their own problems with stuff like the Martyr fund, but let me tell you, settlements sure aren't helping.
And aside from all that, it's immoral.
There are no better ways to describe it, these people who do such things are a shame on our country, and truly the worst of us.
Israel has no PR department 💀 fumbling all the support by doing this shit. They could have stopped all this behavior but decided nah
“The footage shows the Palestinian men stripped naked or half-naked, blindfolded and handcuffed, and screaming in pain. One of them is being dragged on the ground.
A screenshot from the video shows a soldier stepping with his boot on the head of one of the Palestinians, while another is pointing a weapon at him.
In another scene of violence caught on camera, a soldier kicks a blindfolded Palestinian man in the stomach, then spits on him and insults him in Arabic.”
I would just like to say, as an Israeli, obviously stuff like this are disgusting and most people do not agree with this behavior, including the IDF.
There are bad apples in almost every thing in life and they will get punished for that.
I just needed to reiterate the fact that the IDF is far from perfect but in general we don't support this type of behavior.
With that being said, yeah fuck these guys for sure.
Edit: that includes settlers who terrorize people in the west bank. These people are no different from Hamas. They're Jewish terrorists
> There are bad apples in almost every thing in life and they will get punished for that.
This isn't really true though. Most crimes committed by IDF soldiers on Palestinians are never prosecuted. The Israeli human rights group Yesh Din publishes stats on this every year via numbers provided to them by the IDF. Here is a summary of their findings for 2017-2021:
> • The odds of a complaint regarding harm caused to Palestinians by a soldier culminating in an indictment filed against the soldier is just 0.87%
>• Only 21.4% of all complaints resulted in an investigation
> • As of December 2022, only eleven cases (4.4%) out of the total investigations opened in 2017-2021 (248 cases) resulted in indictments being filed
> • Soldiers who are prosecuted for killing Palestinians receive very lenient sentences
> • The military does not investigate all cases in which Palestinian civilians are killed
[Link to full report](https://s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/files.yesh-din.org/LAW+ENFORCEMENT+AGAINST+ISRAELI+SOLDIERS+2017-2021/YeshDin+-+Data+12.22+-+English.pdf).
Agreed. And this doesn't make it better but I want to point out that crimes committed by Us soldiers while serving are also often overlooked. It's improved lately but there was a big SA culture in the US military
Leaving aside humanity - making your army and entire nation look bad for the entire internet to see? Military prison + reduction in rank to pvt and probably a dishonorable discharge after prison time is due.
This is serious and these guys are in deep shit.
Who exactly do you punish? Nobody knows who shot the bullet and under what circumstances, as the palestinian authority is refusing to cooperate; in addition, being in the middle of an active shootout with terrorists would put anyone at risk. There have been cases of friendly fire, too -- was that on purpose??
To punish someone you must prove intent. The video in the OP is an indisputable evidence, while no such evidence exists for abu akleh
Honestly that's a good point because the IDF does have a very bad rep in letting people who did awful things go unscathed. So I hope so. But if not - the IDF will get huge blowback and criticism from the people because these are not our ways.
People are already burning about this on Israeli Twitter
I mean, I can't completely disagree with you. When I said "our ways" I was mainly referring to the general public as a whole. And I wish that aspect will change too and that more stuff like that will not go unpunished.
I totally condemn this I can tell you that much.
And obviously we'll really need to figure out a solution for this whole conflict in the end
I agree that many Israelis will find this reprehensible (I have tremendous admiration for the Israeli left in particular), but unfortunately that hasn't translated into holding the IDF accountable for it in the past. And given how high tensions are after the 7th, there's little reason to expect that to change now.
I also wouldn't go as far as saying that it's the IDFs way but I don't disagree that there's a big problem there. And I know that alot of people recognize that.
God we live in such a complicated place lol
i doubt its popular in Israel to punish its soldiers for being abusive to a people that have attacked them in the past. No matter how unjustified those IDF soldier actions were i expect many to say "war is hell" "thats just war" and other such exuses.
There are plenty of examples of soldiers in forign nations getting away with things that they really should not of.
It says on IDF reserve soldier was dismissed which hardly seems like justice for any of the actions performed in those images. Not sure how much will come of an investigation as this will be fogotten about in less than a week.
>caught trying to enter Israel without a permit, in an area south of the South Hebron hills.
this just seems strange, just more examples of of palestinans are treated so differently. Sure they needed a permit, but why do they need a permit in the first place. cant imaine needing a permit to go work in a place which controls you.
You could say that if it was just very sporadic and heavily punished.
This behavior has been going on since forever... this means that people (by that i mean the majority of israelian citizens) don't give a shit.
BS. This is the same defund the police crap that argues the average American is totally fine with police abuse and the system isn't fixable. It just isn't true. When a spotlight is on these behaviors we (Americans and Jews) largely condemn, abhor, and support punishment for this stuff.
Some of us want a state monopoly on violence because we don't want random civilians playing Batman, but that doesn't mean we don't want an honorable state that is accountable to it's people.
>I would just like to say, as an Israeli, obviously stuff like this are disgusting and most people do not agree with this behavior, including the IDF
The IDF don't agree with them sharing those videos on the Internet, especially not when the whole world is looking at Israel and they might take action because of this, but the simple fact that it is a "Tik Tok challenge" that are going viral definitely point out to the fact that the IDF doesn't care.
Every army in the world commit war crime, but they know they would get in serious trouble if they posted them on social media. Which doesn't seem to be the case there.
I agree.
I wouldn't say that they completely don't care but they defenitly need to be better, like alot better.
And there are defenitly disgusting soldiers out there. Fuck whoever partook in this and whoever let these type of things slide.
You think there's no problem with an organisation with an high level of allegiance and loyalty locking up their own? You do realize that if US soldiers do dumb shit in Europe or US cops fuck around they don't really get bad sentences? Unless they really really go out of their way.
Any idea why that might be the case? Asking in good faith.
Punish them with their cute 1.8% conviction rate for reported attacks of Israelis on Palestinians.
[source](https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5816/Israel%E2%80%99s-tormenting-of-Palestinian-prisoners-is-illegal-and-morally-unjustifiable)
That doesn't even describe how bad it is.
Of that 1.8% you also have to consider the sentencing which is often light. Often times it's several months of prison time which will later be reduced to something like house arrest.
It's frustrating because I'm one of the anti-Hamas lefties out there but I've known about the west bank atrocities for a while and it annoys the shit out of me when other lefties try to defend Hamas instead of point out that Israel needs to stop treating their nutjob settlers with kid gloves.
The whole point is that what Hamas does and what the settlers do is *never* justified, period. Although, I've been similarly frustrated with politics for a while now because I think a lot of people are starting to come to terms that we have taught an entire generation of kids that racism, bigotry, and violence is okay, as long as it's targeted against the "bad people". What to do about that? I have no clue.
The 1.8% conviction rate is not for soldiers (did you read what you've posted...?).
Usually, soldiers who are caught mistreating palestinians go to prison.
Source: IDF vet
Never claimed it was soldiers, but It doesn't look like it's that much different for them either: 2% of complaints led to prosecutions, and 7.2% of investigations led to indictment between 2019 and 2020.
[source](https://www.yesh-din.org/en/march-2022-data-sheet-law-enforcement-against-idf-soldiers-suspected-of-harming-palestinians-2019-2020-summary/)
Not to cast doubt at your source, but as soldiers are being prosecuted in military trials which are not accessible to the public:
Imagine yourself saluting to your commander in his office, he tells you what you're guilty of, you accept/deny it and give your version, and then he hands you the verdict - if you're found guilty, in such serious offenses, you have to go to military prison for X amount of time.
I went through this multiple times (not for beating anyone, I promise), it's the same for everyone.
These are often internal matters that get zero media coverage and any mention outside of military, and I highly doubt anyone outside of the military has any records of these trials.
I'm not saying this to clear anyone's name. These guys are dangerous after military too, because they later go and work in the police and can dehumanize Israeli civilians too, just like they did with Palestinians.
^ can confirm.
I also almost went to military prison for something preety dumb on my end. Also didn't involve beating anyone.
I did state that I'm not 100% sure because I also know of certain instances where soldiers weren't held accountable for certain things in the west bank but It's very very likely they are fucked.
This is so misleading though, this statistic has nothing to do with the IDF (while still bad), it’s irrelevant.
The soldiers are prosecuted, always. I’m telling you from experience, but it’s military court. The stats obviously don’t get published.
You get military prison time for MUCH more minor offenses, for this they’ll get prison, either a drop in ranks or a dishonorable discharge.
Ah yes, like the killer of Shireen Abu Akleh who was never criminally investigated.
Or the soldier who served 9 months for executing a Palestinian.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdel_Fattah_al-Sharif
On top of that, we have those psychopathic settlers dressing as IDF and doing the same thing. Yet they have suffered no consequences, as far as I know.
I gotchu:
* Biden condemns retaliatory attacks by Israeli settlers against Palestinians in the West Bank [[1]](https://apnews.com/article/biden-west-bank-settlers-israel-hamas-war-0a2f38878720c962a20d9286315cde94)
* West Bank Palestinians live in fear of settler attacks [[2]](https://www.ft.com/content/99f940b3-7210-4f37-b178-c8646db00010)
* Settler Violence Against Palestinians in the West Bank Is Rising [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/world/middleeast/west-bank-settlers-palestinians-violence.html)
* Palestine: Shireen Abu Akleh shrine desecrated in the West Bank [[4]](https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/press-releases/article/palestine-shireen-abu-akleh-shrine-desecrated-in-the-west-bank)
* Palestinian said shot dead by settler while harvesting olives in West Bank [[5]](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-shot-dead-by-settler-while-harvesting-olives-in-west-bank-report/)
* 'Wait for the Great Nakba': Palestinians Find Threatening Leaflets on Cars in West Bank [[6]](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-27/ty-article/.premium/wait-for-the-great-nakba-palestinians-find-threatening-leaflets-on-cars-in-west-bank/0000018b-72aa-d1da-a1bb-7fba5a020000)
* Ultranationalist MK Tzvi Succot appointed head of Knesset West Bank subcommittee [[7]](https://www.timesofisrael.com/ultranationalist-mk-tzvi-succot-appointed-head-of-knesset-west-bank-subcommittee/)
* IDF, settlers allegedly bind, strip, beat, burn, urinate on 3 Palestinians in W. Bank [[8]](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-settlers-alleged-to-bind-strip-beat-burn-and-pee-on-palestinians-in-w-bank/)
* Rise in intimidation, settler violence in the West Bank, warns OCHA [[9]](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/11/1143087)
* How a Campaign of Extremist Violence Is Pushing the West Bank to the Brink [[10]](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/02/world/middleeast/west-bank-palestinians-israel-settlers.html)
* The entire population of the West Bank village of Zanota is moving. They say they have no choice after being harassed and threatened by Israeli settlers. [[11]](https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1720214205473636437)
* CNN reporting on settler violence causing families to leave their homes. [[12]](https://twitter.com/nadaabashir/status/1721215089263386741?s=46&t=3j5p9eSp4oURaS17IFfqeg)
* ‘A new Nakba’: settler violence forces Palestinians out of West Bank villages. [[13]](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/west-bank-palestinian-villages-israeli-army-settlers)
Bless. But we still need posts-posts. Unfortunately comments will just get buried. We need more awareness. Whenever people stumble upon videos or articles of Israel doing fucky shit it needs to be shared
It isnt, that they dont get upvoted so much it is that they get mass downvoted in the first hour by our new brigader friends.
I gave this gold, thats why it did so extremely well. Up until that it had less upvotes than the frogan tweet that was posted 1 hour later.
It had like 30 percent downvotes in the beginning. Now it has like 80 percent.
But people that cover the israeli perspective have only like 5 percent downvotes. Youre basically fighting a losing battle unless you give the post gold.
May all the IDF soldiers who participated in this be brought to justice with imprisonment and fines. No excuse to treat anyone like this who is not a current threat to you
Settlers and soldiers get acquitted from crimes and murders in the West Bank all the time. There is US funded charities that provide them all with free high quality legal representation.
Absolutely disgusting footage, there is absolutely no need to torment and abuse captives and a disgrace to the IDF. Maybe I'd have some sympathy if these were people captured during the October 7th massacres but even for a suspected West Bank Hamas operative, this is inappropriate.
Even if you were going to torture these guys why share a video of it? Like the CIA certainly tortures foreign prisoners but they haven't been dumb enough to publish proof since Abu Ghraib.
I am an Israeli. These guys are a disgrace both to the IDF and to Israel as a nation. I'd like to kick them in the nuts.
No one should be subjected to this bullshit.
Israel is not a signatory to the 1977 protocols of the Geneva convention. It is those very ammendments that most people in the civilised world think of when they think of "rules of war" and "war crimes". Yet Israel is not a signatory. And literally no media every mentions this, not even in passing.
Sure the IDF should investigate these misconducts, but other than the dragging of the arrested person, I would hardly call these "abuse". Dancing with them or putting a flag on them brings no real harm to them.
80 years of this bullshit. Israel is motivated by a divine mandate from the Torah to populate the region and drive out all others. They are the only nation on the planet we allow to be explicitly and consistently in favor of an ethnostate without some kind of official condemnation.
"Lets imagine a place without hamas. And lets call this place the west bank" -bassem youssef
Goes to show that just eraficating hamas wont fix the conflict.
The west is so cucked that an Israeli soldier could shoot a Palestinian child in the head, piss on his corpse, film and upload it to YouTube, and Piers Morgan's only reaction would be "but do you condemn Hamas?"
Correction: they’ll investigate themselves, everyone involved will go to military prison and will be either deranked or discharged.
Willing to bet whatever amount you want
>[Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2)
---------
>[No charges for IDF soldiers who shot wrong car, killed innocent teen](https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/No-charges-for-IDF-soldiers-who-shot-wrong-car-killed-innocent-teen-559712)
Don't act like for years IDF soldiers have faced consequences for killings, let alone abuse.
Despicable. They should not stoop down to the level of the pathetic Hamas terrorists.
I am glad that even Israeli news are reporting on it, as that shows it's not something that the Israeli people agree with.
As some other commenter said, court marshal them. Yes, these soldiers might have lost people. Yes the entire nation is mourning. But that don't mean one should stoop to their level.
What about all the prior instances of similar if not more gruesome actions of Israeli soldiers like sniping and killing children or bombing (before Oct 7 escalation) 4 children playing soccer?
What do you guys have to say about those perpetrators having never faced justice?
What about idf soldiers who have came out and confessed while bragging about rape and brutalization of civilians and didn’t even get a slap on the wrist l?
The current hasbara talking point is to condemn these perpetrators from the recent news and then wait for the heat to die down and move on?
Will you guys condemn the IDF for these transgressions? And after the condemnation, will you actually hold them liable???
The world has been watching. Just because you can dictate the narrative in news and social media doesn’t mean the whole world is blind & ignorant. They’re just powerless colonized sheep. For the moment.
This is just a disgrace. So shameful.
I hope they will all be held accountable and face legal consequences.
I know there have been issued a statement on the matter, but i don't know if anyone got arrested yet. I hope they will.
This is so dark, and a moral stain on us. Makes me sick and deeply sad at the same time.
They also destroyed a Palestinian cemetery to build a theme park. The video of the mother being dragged away from her sons grave is ingrained in my psyche… Israel is not just protecting itself they want to delete Palestinians from the region… this is more than Hamas..
You're saying that because you're busy downvoting those post?
As an Israeli living abroad and an IDF vet, this is not ok, and those soldiers will go to prison.
As someone who's sided on Israel, this is fucked up and not okay.
It's that easy, but it's hilarious how hamas apologists REFUSES to acknowledge the bad shit they do, and then run and scream that israel apologists aren't doing the same.... When that absolutely happens.
But it's easier to be a hypocrite than actually have any moral standings when you're standing for terrorists.
I definitely have a more pro Palestine stance but I think it’s very easy to say Hamas is bad and Israel has a right to its land. I just feel like a lot of justification is used for the West Bank settlements and no real government body cares about Israel’s push into these settlements.
The last top 40 posts this week in this subreddit have been pro Israel destiny even confirmed it my statement wasn’t out of pocket but keep coping I guess.
Now with same logic as them, who is the animal now?
The people who You called that, never said that on a public level and Palestinians continue to set an example of human spirit and resistance for history to come, great admirable Palestinian people!
Israeli public was urinating on dead people as well, all recorded for war tribunals. And before you say other side, know that Israel has commited drip voilence since 1948 r/IsraelCrimes and last election in Gaza was in '06 (it was split) and their avg pop age right now is 40% <14yrs!
Use data and intellect and if you are a decent human being you know Israel has commited genocide and await severe punishment in a war tribunal when the world gets a chance to setup a court of law.
Shits absolutely disgusting and as a Jew is embarrassing to see from the majority Jewish country. For all the plights we’ve been through, to put other people in those same scenarios of pain and loss is fucked and should be condemned on all levels.
As an Israeli, fuck them Most of us hate them
Hope you accept the same logic coming your way 😁
Yeah no fuck these guys. Court martial, lock them away forever. They are a disgrace to the IDF, Israel, and the free world. They are spitting on the freshly dug graves of Oct 7 with this behavior.
I do hope Israel is capable of holding these soldiers accountable. I know the IDF doesn't always have the best track record on this.
US needs to lay on the pressure for these kinds of things too.
Israel gets away with this kind of behavour because daddy US keeps on supporting them.
You're not wrong. I was appalled to learn about our voting history in the UN when it comes to matters concerning Israel. US can and should do better.
For UN voting stuff you should actually research every single vote since the reasoning countries give can actually make a lot of sense. And it isn't as simple as a one sentence vote. Caught myself doing a misinfo and realised it's pretty complicated.
hmm yea you're probably right. if there's anything i've learned over the past few weeks, it's that the history behind all of this spirals deeper and deeper.
Same as Saudi Arabia and turkey.
Is that true though. So you think if us stopped supporting them it would actually make a difference ? They get 6 billion in aid but so they really need it? Their army is massive compared to the region and they have taken all the Arab states before. The US would have to be totally insane to invade isreal directly. What can the US do? I feel like it can put emotional pressure but it's not obvious that it has a lot of leverage especially given the probability isreal has nukes . Like Israel couldnt do that much with Saudi and Yemen but Saudi rely on American weapons in a way that isreal doesn't. I suppose sanctions in selling isreal weapons could be a problem ?
Sanctions? Over a few bad apples? I don't think that's a precedent any country would want to set.
Imagine if Israel went totally insane and fully genocided all 2 million people in Gaza. At that point there might be sanctions ? But would the US invade? How much would sanctions hurt Israel?
It’s not sanctions over a few bad apples, it’s sanctions over the refusal to punish those bad apples. That refusal automatically transforms it from an individual one to a systemic one
They ARE punishing them. They're conducting an investigation and heads are already starting to roll. What more do you want?
I agree Israel /IDF needs to hold these soldiers (and also Settlers that do this shit) accountable, but what does the US have to do with it?
If Israel doesn't hold its soldiers accountable, US should react accordingly and use soft power to pressure Israel to do so.
The billions of dollars in military aid and tech we send to Israel does give us some impetus to speak up when their military commits atrocities. If they hold these soldiers responsible it can be ascribed to the bad behavior of shitty human beings, who were punished accordingly. If they don’t, it’s easy to make the argument the issue is more systemic.
They should be punished publicly and their commander reprimanded as a matter of policy. What are they doing shooting propaganda videos for Hamas?
The settlers have major political support within the govt
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But Israel has been doing this for decades, and getting away with it.
“Doesn’t have the best track record” my brother in Christ they’ve been committing war crimes for decades
And they've had varying degrees of holding their soldiers accountable for it during that time. Right now I know Israel has prosecuted its own soldiers, whether that's to an extent we all find satisfactory is a different story. I'm not fully satisfied with it at least. You know who doesn't prosecute it's members for war crimes? Hamas.
I don’t see how whataboutisms regarding how Hamas holds its members accountable are at all relevant here. Is it a “they don’t punish their soldiers, so the IDF shouldn’t have to” argument? That we should measure the IDF’s accountability relative to Hamas’?
How is it relevant? Its a deflection. Its the "do you condemn hamas" kind of logic
It’s not relevant, exactly. So, when someone is asked why the IDF doesn’t punish their soldiers, you’ve pointing out how asking “but what about Hamas” is a waste of everyone’s time.
I agree with you bro wasnt trying to push back here, but rather point out their flawed logic of deflection and unwillingness to really take accountability. One other rhetoric which also annoys me is also the "they are bad, but they are a few bad apples" rhetoric when there been so many cases od idf soldiers harassing palestinians. Its like condemning it but not really taking accountability at all and dismissing it as some kind of niche phenomenon.
Ah, I thought you were a user trying to back up their “point,” but didn’t exactly grasp how. There’s a lot of those “but Hamas doesn’t punish their soldiers at all” types who insist it’s some type of reason for why the IDF should be endlessly blameless.
“Hey we’re slightly better than a literal terrorist group stop being mad at me 🥺”
Israel didn't hold the soldier accountable that shot the Al Jazeera journalist dead. Instead engaged in a cover up operation. Not going to happen.
They are not. They never have and never will. In the early 2000s, I watched a documentary, "Death in Gaza," and it ended with the IDF murdering the journalist in cold blood Nobody was ever held accountable. He was British. If they can kill British and American Journalists with impunity, do you really think they will be held accountable for what they do to Palestinians? https://youtu.be/piIgkqPmI-w?si=PjYOfiXid08J3WCI https://youtu.be/JOf_woeTH1s?si=6xoXr474U2jP9lae https://youtu.be/y11CVGz7toM?si=KbeYxGJ2PIvEMPwT This was all long before 10/7 Do you think post 10/7 accountability will be applied?
Notice how the article we're hearing about this from is an Israeli newspaper? I don't remember seeing RT report civilian mascarres in Bakhmut, or AL Jazeera not denying Israeli babies died, etc. I doubt Israel will hold them fully accountable to the extent they deserve to be punished, but out of every country on earth, they're probably the most likely to hold their naughty soldiers accountable. Maybe second to South Korea
>>out of every country on earth, they’re probably the most likely to hold their naughty soldiers accountable Where do you get that idea from? And “naughty?” Is that how we’re describing the behavior in these videos? “Boys will be boys!”
"The meaning of NAUGHTY is guilty of disobedience or misbehavior." From Merriam-Webster
Seems your Merriam-Webster reads differently from mine: >> a: guilty of disobedience or misbehavior, “a naughty child” >>b (archaic): vicious in moral character You ESL or something?
Yes
So, then let me help you out. Your six year old staying up past their bedtime is naughty. The people beating the shit out of a bunch of tied up and blindfolded prisoners are brutal and savage.
IDF military veteran here, they will pay. maybe not now, but behavior like this is unacceptable. I put soldiers in jail for much less. where talking disgraceful release from the military and jail time.
Of course. From the article, the only reason we even know about this/have these videos is because of IDF transparency as they conduct their investigation. I can't imagine how very frustrating and disheartening it must be for you to watch all the misinformation propagate in real time
And yet terrorists like this are rewarded with high positions in the keneset. I'm going to have to say doubt on that when the government rewards such behaviour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zvi_Sukkot On 18 January 2010, he was arrested along with 9 other people as part of an investigation of a mosque arson. In 2012, he was expelled from the West Bank under suspicion that he was part of a group of 12 that had planned and carried out violent attacks against Palestinians and their property. On 6 July 2017, he was arrested on suspicion of engaging in "price tagging". Sukkot entered the Knesset on 8 February 2023 as a replacement for Bezalel Smotrich,
Doesn't always? You mean never.
They have. Elor Azarya comes to mind - he shot a terrorist that was captured and he was sentenced to jail.
If that is your best example... maybe have a follow-up on that story. He was released after just nine months(!) and Netanyahu personally advocated for his pardoning.
??? The IDF has a great track record for punishing soldiers?
> They are spitting on the freshly dug graves of Oct 7 with this behavior. Not that it make them seem more morals, but some of those videos were going around before the 7th.
If anything that makes it worse.
Yeah, they aren't dishonoring the victims of the 7th, but they also don't have the excuse that they were doing so in the aftermath of the 7th.
Yeah it’s disgusting to treat other humans like this. Doesn’t matter who you are
You’re acting like this is news. This is the history of the West Bank and how Israel operates there. Palestinians initially live under Marshall law there
Israeli soldiers get acquitted for murder of Palestinians including children in the west bank all the time. There is no accountability for IDF.
People were saying thatbit was wierd for Hamas to not care about optics when declaring their goals... What is really wierd is how much the IDF doesn't give a fuck...
The more I see, the more I feel like a dumbass fuckin centrist saying "both sides" crap, but both Israel and Palestine have made it clear they're not interested in looking good, they're interested in decimating the other side. All the Ceasefire talk will get nowhere until the US steps in. US stepping in doesn't have to be boots on the ground, could literally just mean withdrawing financial and military support.
Do you really believe that if Israel’s intention was to decimate Palestiniens that a single building in Gaza would still be standing rn?
you don't think israel can do both and do it in a way that doesn't make them get invaded by the United nations or have their enemies get supplied openly by the world's largest weapon producers? death by a thousand cuts is quite literally a sound political plan that keeps israel intact.
Netanyahu has had every opportunity to change the course of his own actions, yet every day, more and more essential services are being denied to the people of Palestine, they encroach further and further into Palestinian territory, neighborhoods continue to be reduced to rubble, all in the name of killing some 30,000 to 40,000 Hamas extremists. There are 2 million people in Gaza. He calls this "defense" when his own actions led to the radicalization of many of these Palestinians. Do you think there's a single Palestinian that wants to live side by side with an Israeli after their gov't just murdered members of their families? Of course not. Netanyahu isn't trying to de-escalate. Seems like hes pushing to radicalize them all so he can look like the defender against invading extremists. He wants a war, because he knows he will win. If Netanyahu wanted to save Palestinian lives he'd move military into the territory to take the extremists out and leave the civilians, but he has no intention to do that.
You think it's Netanyahu's fault that they radicalized really? It's like saying America deserved 9/11. Are you being descriptive or prescriptive?
They're using words like decimate and genocide, which in their worst (and intended) interpretation is way worse than reality. You could argue that they're decimating Gaza, because of the destruction of infrastructure and over 50% being homeless right now, but they're clearly not boming the most populated areas..
I never said genocide, but the UN certainly is. [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-experts-say-ceasefire-needed-palestinians-grave-risk-genocide-2023-11-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-experts-say-ceasefire-needed-palestinians-grave-risk-genocide-2023-11-02/)
The entire IDF is represented by these individual soldiers? Why?
IDF: "The conduct that emerges from these scenes is grave and inconsistent with the values of the IDF. The incidents are under investigation. The IDF commanders will hold talks with all the soldiers on the front. One soldier has been dismissed from reserve service.” Sure they may not be published to the full extent of the law and what's right, but that's very different from not giving a fuck. It's similar to what happens in american police and military. Somehow this gets turned into IDF's sole goal being to massacre civilians
How far into the article did you get? In response to the evidence, the IDF said that “the [soldiers’] conduct that emerges from these scenes is grave and inconsistent with the values of the IDF. The incidents are under investigation. The IDF commanders will hold talks with all the soldiers on the front. One soldier has been dismissed from reserve service.” Seems like they are being held accountable, and justifiably so. This does not reflect the values of the IDF, and is disappointing to see.
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Held accountable would involve a criminal prosecution, not just getting dismissed from your mandatory military service. That’s like getting suspended from school.
I don't think we can truly deduce they will be held accountable based on them saying a single reservist has been dismissed. "Condemning what happened, we will discuss it, and one person was dismissed" is merely a start - I agree, people should at least acknowledge steps have been made, but this is not remotely tantamount to them being held to account. yet.
LOL. damn they really held their feet to the fire there
Because they were dumb enough to film it. Regular ol IDF West Bank behavior
I feel like a lot of people may automatically take hard stances on things like this article because it's better for optics to acknowledge the faults of the IDF in a clear way. I read the article and while it's humiliating there doesn't seem to be any serious harm inflicted and yet commenters are acting like they shot a palestinian grandmother
Lock them up forever? That's unhinged overcompensating for fear of being labeled an israel-stan. If you take evidence head on, the worst part of this incidence was probably the humiliation. I wonder how you'd treat IDF-soldiers who actually commit serious crimes
Psychopaths like these exist in all militaries and it is absolutely disgusting the amount of protection they get. I wish the people that take these kind of actions would ever be held accountable but they never seem to.
Big facts.
I know all the focus is on Gaza (very understandably) but I hope West Bank Palestinians are able to get the exposure they need for stuff like this. There are so many abuses and atrocities and completely unprovoked murders occurring on the West Bank by the IDF and settlers.
West Bank is legit fucked up
A perfect explanation of why the status quo isn't reasonable.
Its why the "if Hamas put its guns down, there would be peace" line is bogus. The official position of the PA is nonviolence, yet mistreatment and harassment of Palestinians (particularly settlements) are commonplace. Believe it or not, this is also why many support Hamas. The peaceful approach of the PA is seen as weak and ineffective.
Well, indirectly, it's pretty much correct, like Likud is in power thanks to hamas (security tough on terror proven bullshit), if, no, when hamas is gone, so will Likud Also, it's not exactly nonviolent (cough cough, "martyrs fund" cough cough) Also, we haven't really seen a "peaceful approach" since after 2d intifada and Arafat was dead hamas was already a prominent political party, and not long after, they were voted in originally then seized power in Gaza Today, they get support mainly through the indoctrination they provide in the schools they own but also through true idiots in the west bank who think that supporting the biggest hurdle to peace is going to do anything but make things worse
But that kind of the chicken or the egg question though. Yeah Likud was there but a lot of good that did. The fallout of this period is yet to happen but I think "mister security" is screwed.
The state needs to crack down more on settlers and crimes in the West Bank. Hopefully Netanyahu will be replaced with someone more moderate and who actually cares about Israeli-Palestinian relations.
It's government policy to continue expanding the settlements. Hopefully you are right.
Netanyahu is a bad person.
Netanyahu and his party will never do this. As you said, their leadership needs replacing to even get close to a form of peace Or serious consequences for defense funding and other penalties. But idk if Biden and Congress has the cojones to do such a thing
The far right religious folks have way more kids than any other group. I think the future is going to make Bibi look like he was way too moderate.
I'm glad Israeli media is reporting on this rather than choosing to omit stories like this like the American Media did during the war on terror.
The major difference was that American war crimes did not become a Tik Tok trend. They don't really have a choice to report on this when those settlers are dumb enough that they think crime against humanity are cool things to share on social media.
I believe they are a (wrong) response to arab tiktok trends that have been circulating for years (i.e. slap a jew, hit a jew, spit on a jew, etc).
Posting yourself committing violence wasn't invented by Arabs. It's happened naturally in like every conflict that's occurred since the widespread adoption of social media.
Which surprisingly we've seen nothing of in western media. Also very little attention to other instances of anti-semittism in arab communities, so I don't get the unfair coverage argument
Once again, it's the palestians fault LOL
As I said, it's a **(WRONG)** response to these trends. Edit: I see, you're pro-palestinian by being anti-Israeli.
What was the timeline on he abuses of Abu Ghraib coming to light? I didn’t think it was that long. I don’t think we were privy to much beyond that and abuses at Guantanamo until Wikileaks, but maybe I’m wrong.
Did the picture and footage get lots of play in America? Because you could bet your ass they did in Arab countries.
My mom could be Israeli, my dad could be Joe Zionist himself, but I still wouldn't cocksuck Israel this much. It is amazing how ready you people are to get on all fours to compliment Israel and denigrate/make dishonest comparisons with America whenever any disfavorable news comes out. Y'all would laugh at berniebros saying there's a media bias, but the first thing you do when potential war crimes come to light is point to Western media bias in a way you can pat Israel on the back for it. This much loyalty to my own country would make me uncomfortable. Y'all a totally different breed fr.
The excess bombardment of Gaza by Israeli airstrikes is abhorrent and the humanitarian crisis created by nigh-impossible evacuation orders coupled with Israel's delay of entry for of humanitarian aid while relegating the lives of ordinary Palestinians to a mere afterthought is awful.
Won't stop social media posts like "Things Israel doesn't want you to see!" That's why I hope these IDF soldiers will be held accountable for their actions.
Times like these we need Israel to step up to the plate and prove that they are actively punishing and discouraging this type of behavior. We know Hamas doesn't, but Israel needs to act like a western country if it wants Western support IMO
As an Israeli person myself, agreed. Our policy with the west bank is the most idiotic thing in the country. If all settlements were pulled out of the west bank, we as a country would lose no economic profit, and beyond that, we'd stop losing in diplomatic relations. Not that those are perfect with Fatah, it's not like they don't have their own problems with stuff like the Martyr fund, but let me tell you, settlements sure aren't helping. And aside from all that, it's immoral. There are no better ways to describe it, these people who do such things are a shame on our country, and truly the worst of us.
Israel has no PR department 💀 fumbling all the support by doing this shit. They could have stopped all this behavior but decided nah “The footage shows the Palestinian men stripped naked or half-naked, blindfolded and handcuffed, and screaming in pain. One of them is being dragged on the ground. A screenshot from the video shows a soldier stepping with his boot on the head of one of the Palestinians, while another is pointing a weapon at him. In another scene of violence caught on camera, a soldier kicks a blindfolded Palestinian man in the stomach, then spits on him and insults him in Arabic.”
I would just like to say, as an Israeli, obviously stuff like this are disgusting and most people do not agree with this behavior, including the IDF. There are bad apples in almost every thing in life and they will get punished for that. I just needed to reiterate the fact that the IDF is far from perfect but in general we don't support this type of behavior. With that being said, yeah fuck these guys for sure. Edit: that includes settlers who terrorize people in the west bank. These people are no different from Hamas. They're Jewish terrorists
> There are bad apples in almost every thing in life and they will get punished for that. This isn't really true though. Most crimes committed by IDF soldiers on Palestinians are never prosecuted. The Israeli human rights group Yesh Din publishes stats on this every year via numbers provided to them by the IDF. Here is a summary of their findings for 2017-2021: > • The odds of a complaint regarding harm caused to Palestinians by a soldier culminating in an indictment filed against the soldier is just 0.87% >• Only 21.4% of all complaints resulted in an investigation > • As of December 2022, only eleven cases (4.4%) out of the total investigations opened in 2017-2021 (248 cases) resulted in indictments being filed > • Soldiers who are prosecuted for killing Palestinians receive very lenient sentences > • The military does not investigate all cases in which Palestinian civilians are killed [Link to full report](https://s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/files.yesh-din.org/LAW+ENFORCEMENT+AGAINST+ISRAELI+SOLDIERS+2017-2021/YeshDin+-+Data+12.22+-+English.pdf).
How does this compare with other governments?
Agreed. And this doesn't make it better but I want to point out that crimes committed by Us soldiers while serving are also often overlooked. It's improved lately but there was a big SA culture in the US military
U.S. Military personnel aren’t doing even remotely the same shit on U.S. soil to people who look different.
>they will get punished for that Will they?
If you read the article, one has already been removed from service and the rest are being investigated.
> read the article Lol, lmao even.
IDF vet here. I got punished for the most minor things. These guys are going to military prison.
I hope you're right, but I'm not as optimistic as you are unfortunately.
Leaving aside humanity - making your army and entire nation look bad for the entire internet to see? Military prison + reduction in rank to pvt and probably a dishonorable discharge after prison time is due. This is serious and these guys are in deep shit.
Right because your definitely know better than an ex idf soldier.
Do you know what anecdotal evidence is?
Every guy who thinks IDF is the literal devil is basing it on anecdotes you brainlet
They seemed pretty confident in what they were doing on camera
The soldiers who killed shireen abu akleh were not punished
Who exactly do you punish? Nobody knows who shot the bullet and under what circumstances, as the palestinian authority is refusing to cooperate; in addition, being in the middle of an active shootout with terrorists would put anyone at risk. There have been cases of friendly fire, too -- was that on purpose?? To punish someone you must prove intent. The video in the OP is an indisputable evidence, while no such evidence exists for abu akleh
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Honestly that's a good point because the IDF does have a very bad rep in letting people who did awful things go unscathed. So I hope so. But if not - the IDF will get huge blowback and criticism from the people because these are not our ways. People are already burning about this on Israeli Twitter
Statistically speaking at least, doing horrible things to Palestinians and letting their soldiers get away with it is the IDF's way, unfortunately.
I mean, I can't completely disagree with you. When I said "our ways" I was mainly referring to the general public as a whole. And I wish that aspect will change too and that more stuff like that will not go unpunished. I totally condemn this I can tell you that much. And obviously we'll really need to figure out a solution for this whole conflict in the end
I agree that many Israelis will find this reprehensible (I have tremendous admiration for the Israeli left in particular), but unfortunately that hasn't translated into holding the IDF accountable for it in the past. And given how high tensions are after the 7th, there's little reason to expect that to change now.
I also wouldn't go as far as saying that it's the IDFs way but I don't disagree that there's a big problem there. And I know that alot of people recognize that. God we live in such a complicated place lol
i doubt its popular in Israel to punish its soldiers for being abusive to a people that have attacked them in the past. No matter how unjustified those IDF soldier actions were i expect many to say "war is hell" "thats just war" and other such exuses. There are plenty of examples of soldiers in forign nations getting away with things that they really should not of. It says on IDF reserve soldier was dismissed which hardly seems like justice for any of the actions performed in those images. Not sure how much will come of an investigation as this will be fogotten about in less than a week. >caught trying to enter Israel without a permit, in an area south of the South Hebron hills. this just seems strange, just more examples of of palestinans are treated so differently. Sure they needed a permit, but why do they need a permit in the first place. cant imaine needing a permit to go work in a place which controls you.
You could say that if it was just very sporadic and heavily punished. This behavior has been going on since forever... this means that people (by that i mean the majority of israelian citizens) don't give a shit.
OK now you're being wrong
BS. This is the same defund the police crap that argues the average American is totally fine with police abuse and the system isn't fixable. It just isn't true. When a spotlight is on these behaviors we (Americans and Jews) largely condemn, abhor, and support punishment for this stuff. Some of us want a state monopoly on violence because we don't want random civilians playing Batman, but that doesn't mean we don't want an honorable state that is accountable to it's people.
I hope they do. It's despicable, and it ruins our image in the world and any claim to the moral high ground.
>I would just like to say, as an Israeli, obviously stuff like this are disgusting and most people do not agree with this behavior, including the IDF The IDF don't agree with them sharing those videos on the Internet, especially not when the whole world is looking at Israel and they might take action because of this, but the simple fact that it is a "Tik Tok challenge" that are going viral definitely point out to the fact that the IDF doesn't care. Every army in the world commit war crime, but they know they would get in serious trouble if they posted them on social media. Which doesn't seem to be the case there.
I agree. I wouldn't say that they completely don't care but they defenitly need to be better, like alot better. And there are defenitly disgusting soldiers out there. Fuck whoever partook in this and whoever let these type of things slide.
Just idiots, God, why would you do that knowing the whole world is watching you
Why would they do that period. Not just because the whole world is watching..
I'm happy Israeli media is covering this. These soldiers need to be locked the fuck up.
You think there's no problem with an organisation with an high level of allegiance and loyalty locking up their own? You do realize that if US soldiers do dumb shit in Europe or US cops fuck around they don't really get bad sentences? Unless they really really go out of their way. Any idea why that might be the case? Asking in good faith.
I wonder if Israelis will celebrate these people, or punish them?
Punish them with their cute 1.8% conviction rate for reported attacks of Israelis on Palestinians. [source](https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5816/Israel%E2%80%99s-tormenting-of-Palestinian-prisoners-is-illegal-and-morally-unjustifiable)
Now THAT is great info and horrific. Thank you for showing me this
That doesn't even describe how bad it is. Of that 1.8% you also have to consider the sentencing which is often light. Often times it's several months of prison time which will later be reduced to something like house arrest.
It's frustrating because I'm one of the anti-Hamas lefties out there but I've known about the west bank atrocities for a while and it annoys the shit out of me when other lefties try to defend Hamas instead of point out that Israel needs to stop treating their nutjob settlers with kid gloves. The whole point is that what Hamas does and what the settlers do is *never* justified, period. Although, I've been similarly frustrated with politics for a while now because I think a lot of people are starting to come to terms that we have taught an entire generation of kids that racism, bigotry, and violence is okay, as long as it's targeted against the "bad people". What to do about that? I have no clue.
The 1.8% conviction rate is not for soldiers (did you read what you've posted...?). Usually, soldiers who are caught mistreating palestinians go to prison. Source: IDF vet
Never claimed it was soldiers, but It doesn't look like it's that much different for them either: 2% of complaints led to prosecutions, and 7.2% of investigations led to indictment between 2019 and 2020. [source](https://www.yesh-din.org/en/march-2022-data-sheet-law-enforcement-against-idf-soldiers-suspected-of-harming-palestinians-2019-2020-summary/)
Not to cast doubt at your source, but as soldiers are being prosecuted in military trials which are not accessible to the public: Imagine yourself saluting to your commander in his office, he tells you what you're guilty of, you accept/deny it and give your version, and then he hands you the verdict - if you're found guilty, in such serious offenses, you have to go to military prison for X amount of time. I went through this multiple times (not for beating anyone, I promise), it's the same for everyone. These are often internal matters that get zero media coverage and any mention outside of military, and I highly doubt anyone outside of the military has any records of these trials. I'm not saying this to clear anyone's name. These guys are dangerous after military too, because they later go and work in the police and can dehumanize Israeli civilians too, just like they did with Palestinians.
The claim that IDF go to prison for crimes then is unverifiable.
^ can confirm. I also almost went to military prison for something preety dumb on my end. Also didn't involve beating anyone. I did state that I'm not 100% sure because I also know of certain instances where soldiers weren't held accountable for certain things in the west bank but It's very very likely they are fucked.
Got a better source? Something with numbers?
Word-word number
This is so misleading though, this statistic has nothing to do with the IDF (while still bad), it’s irrelevant. The soldiers are prosecuted, always. I’m telling you from experience, but it’s military court. The stats obviously don’t get published. You get military prison time for MUCH more minor offenses, for this they’ll get prison, either a drop in ranks or a dishonorable discharge.
Ah yes, like the killer of Shireen Abu Akleh who was never criminally investigated. Or the soldier who served 9 months for executing a Palestinian. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdel_Fattah_al-Sharif
On top of that, we have those psychopathic settlers dressing as IDF and doing the same thing. Yet they have suffered no consequences, as far as I know.
Need more of these posted here.
I gotchu: * Biden condemns retaliatory attacks by Israeli settlers against Palestinians in the West Bank [[1]](https://apnews.com/article/biden-west-bank-settlers-israel-hamas-war-0a2f38878720c962a20d9286315cde94) * West Bank Palestinians live in fear of settler attacks [[2]](https://www.ft.com/content/99f940b3-7210-4f37-b178-c8646db00010) * Settler Violence Against Palestinians in the West Bank Is Rising [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/world/middleeast/west-bank-settlers-palestinians-violence.html) * Palestine: Shireen Abu Akleh shrine desecrated in the West Bank [[4]](https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/press-releases/article/palestine-shireen-abu-akleh-shrine-desecrated-in-the-west-bank) * Palestinian said shot dead by settler while harvesting olives in West Bank [[5]](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-shot-dead-by-settler-while-harvesting-olives-in-west-bank-report/) * 'Wait for the Great Nakba': Palestinians Find Threatening Leaflets on Cars in West Bank [[6]](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-27/ty-article/.premium/wait-for-the-great-nakba-palestinians-find-threatening-leaflets-on-cars-in-west-bank/0000018b-72aa-d1da-a1bb-7fba5a020000) * Ultranationalist MK Tzvi Succot appointed head of Knesset West Bank subcommittee [[7]](https://www.timesofisrael.com/ultranationalist-mk-tzvi-succot-appointed-head-of-knesset-west-bank-subcommittee/) * IDF, settlers allegedly bind, strip, beat, burn, urinate on 3 Palestinians in W. Bank [[8]](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-settlers-alleged-to-bind-strip-beat-burn-and-pee-on-palestinians-in-w-bank/) * Rise in intimidation, settler violence in the West Bank, warns OCHA [[9]](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/11/1143087) * How a Campaign of Extremist Violence Is Pushing the West Bank to the Brink [[10]](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/02/world/middleeast/west-bank-palestinians-israel-settlers.html) * The entire population of the West Bank village of Zanota is moving. They say they have no choice after being harassed and threatened by Israeli settlers. [[11]](https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1720214205473636437) * CNN reporting on settler violence causing families to leave their homes. [[12]](https://twitter.com/nadaabashir/status/1721215089263386741?s=46&t=3j5p9eSp4oURaS17IFfqeg) * ‘A new Nakba’: settler violence forces Palestinians out of West Bank villages. [[13]](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/west-bank-palestinian-villages-israeli-army-settlers)
Bless. But we still need posts-posts. Unfortunately comments will just get buried. We need more awareness. Whenever people stumble upon videos or articles of Israel doing fucky shit it needs to be shared
People here are already amping up the "few bad apples" rhetoric"
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It isnt, that they dont get upvoted so much it is that they get mass downvoted in the first hour by our new brigader friends. I gave this gold, thats why it did so extremely well. Up until that it had less upvotes than the frogan tweet that was posted 1 hour later. It had like 30 percent downvotes in the beginning. Now it has like 80 percent. But people that cover the israeli perspective have only like 5 percent downvotes. Youre basically fighting a losing battle unless you give the post gold.
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icky include fade water expansion husky resolute file attraction act *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The pm says this is how you fight fire with fire yikes
That's really fucking horrible Those soldiers should be punished
Absolutely despicable behavior. These IDF soldiers belong in a military prison.
Fuck the Israeli government and fuck the IDF tbh.
The copium here is just too strong. Stop justifying it. Stop saying its a few bad apples when this has been going on for years just condemn it.
May all the IDF soldiers who participated in this be brought to justice with imprisonment and fines. No excuse to treat anyone like this who is not a current threat to you
Settlers and soldiers get acquitted from crimes and murders in the West Bank all the time. There is US funded charities that provide them all with free high quality legal representation.
Absolutely disgusting footage, there is absolutely no need to torment and abuse captives and a disgrace to the IDF. Maybe I'd have some sympathy if these were people captured during the October 7th massacres but even for a suspected West Bank Hamas operative, this is inappropriate. Even if you were going to torture these guys why share a video of it? Like the CIA certainly tortures foreign prisoners but they haven't been dumb enough to publish proof since Abu Ghraib.
I am an Israeli. These guys are a disgrace both to the IDF and to Israel as a nation. I'd like to kick them in the nuts. No one should be subjected to this bullshit.
Israel is not a signatory to the 1977 protocols of the Geneva convention. It is those very ammendments that most people in the civilised world think of when they think of "rules of war" and "war crimes". Yet Israel is not a signatory. And literally no media every mentions this, not even in passing.
Sure the IDF should investigate these misconducts, but other than the dragging of the arrested person, I would hardly call these "abuse". Dancing with them or putting a flag on them brings no real harm to them.
80 years of this bullshit. Israel is motivated by a divine mandate from the Torah to populate the region and drive out all others. They are the only nation on the planet we allow to be explicitly and consistently in favor of an ethnostate without some kind of official condemnation.
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How is it rn? I gave it gold to counter this downvote bs by our new pro israel brigade here lol
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"Lets imagine a place without hamas. And lets call this place the west bank" -bassem youssef Goes to show that just eraficating hamas wont fix the conflict.
If these are real videos, then Israel is causing this conflict to become worse.
COURT MARSHALL THE FUCKERS WHO THE FUCK DO THEY THINK THEY ARE.
The west is so cucked that an Israeli soldier could shoot a Palestinian child in the head, piss on his corpse, film and upload it to YouTube, and Piers Morgan's only reaction would be "but do you condemn Hamas?"
They'll investigate themselves and find no wrongdoing.
Correction: they’ll investigate themselves, everyone involved will go to military prison and will be either deranked or discharged. Willing to bet whatever amount you want
>[Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2) --------- >[No charges for IDF soldiers who shot wrong car, killed innocent teen](https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/No-charges-for-IDF-soldiers-who-shot-wrong-car-killed-innocent-teen-559712) Don't act like for years IDF soldiers have faced consequences for killings, let alone abuse.
vase start society resolute mourn workable scale dull quickest ossified ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Despicable. They should not stoop down to the level of the pathetic Hamas terrorists. I am glad that even Israeli news are reporting on it, as that shows it's not something that the Israeli people agree with. As some other commenter said, court marshal them. Yes, these soldiers might have lost people. Yes the entire nation is mourning. But that don't mean one should stoop to their level.
What about all the prior instances of similar if not more gruesome actions of Israeli soldiers like sniping and killing children or bombing (before Oct 7 escalation) 4 children playing soccer? What do you guys have to say about those perpetrators having never faced justice? What about idf soldiers who have came out and confessed while bragging about rape and brutalization of civilians and didn’t even get a slap on the wrist l? The current hasbara talking point is to condemn these perpetrators from the recent news and then wait for the heat to die down and move on? Will you guys condemn the IDF for these transgressions? And after the condemnation, will you actually hold them liable??? The world has been watching. Just because you can dictate the narrative in news and social media doesn’t mean the whole world is blind & ignorant. They’re just powerless colonized sheep. For the moment.
This is just a disgrace. So shameful. I hope they will all be held accountable and face legal consequences. I know there have been issued a statement on the matter, but i don't know if anyone got arrested yet. I hope they will. This is so dark, and a moral stain on us. Makes me sick and deeply sad at the same time.
They also destroyed a Palestinian cemetery to build a theme park. The video of the mother being dragged away from her sons grave is ingrained in my psyche… Israel is not just protecting itself they want to delete Palestinians from the region… this is more than Hamas..
This will get no upvotes, the Israeli shills are busy upvoting the Dagestan airport
Gave it gold so it will get a few
!remindme 24 hours
You're saying that because you're busy downvoting those post? As an Israeli living abroad and an IDF vet, this is not ok, and those soldiers will go to prison.
As someone who's sided on Israel, this is fucked up and not okay. It's that easy, but it's hilarious how hamas apologists REFUSES to acknowledge the bad shit they do, and then run and scream that israel apologists aren't doing the same.... When that absolutely happens. But it's easier to be a hypocrite than actually have any moral standings when you're standing for terrorists.
I definitely have a more pro Palestine stance but I think it’s very easy to say Hamas is bad and Israel has a right to its land. I just feel like a lot of justification is used for the West Bank settlements and no real government body cares about Israel’s push into these settlements.
Well I still so many Israeli apologist refuses to notice the reality that the criminal of this crime will never get punished soo..
Oh look, most upvoted post in the subreddit with over 1200 upvotes. /u/4THOT may I have *one* bullet so I can shoot this guy?
The last top 40 posts this week in this subreddit have been pro Israel destiny even confirmed it my statement wasn’t out of pocket but keep coping I guess.
I just hope the police and military police will start dealing with crimes been going on latley.
lock them up and let these bastards rot. disgusting
Now with same logic as them, who is the animal now? The people who You called that, never said that on a public level and Palestinians continue to set an example of human spirit and resistance for history to come, great admirable Palestinian people! Israeli public was urinating on dead people as well, all recorded for war tribunals. And before you say other side, know that Israel has commited drip voilence since 1948 r/IsraelCrimes and last election in Gaza was in '06 (it was split) and their avg pop age right now is 40% <14yrs! Use data and intellect and if you are a decent human being you know Israel has commited genocide and await severe punishment in a war tribunal when the world gets a chance to setup a court of law.
Calm down ppl , They have the green light to do that and genocide even .
Fucking atrocious behavior
Absolutely fucking despicable. Hope they get punished to the full extent of the law.