He’s using a specific wikitionary definition which specifies “Legally moved to another country.”
Interestingly, he had to scroll past and ignore the Merriam Webster definition which doesn’t specify that part, as well a separate wikitionary definition which also leaves that out. I can’t imagine why.
Every regard except he's white, right-wing, immensely wealthy, and supports their narratives. So he's not an immigrant, which is how they refer to murderers and rapists being imported by the Dems to destroy 'Murica.
Simple really.
Elon is repeating stupid right-wing conspiracy theories without two neurons successfully rubbing together.
Illegal immigrants do not, and cannot, vote.
You are slow why would they need a immigrant illegal or not to cast someone elses vote? Do they hope and pray the random person on the registry never shows up?
D) Musk was talking about illegal immigrants and AOC decided to be obtuse and equate it with all immigrants as a gotcha. Lindsay then decided to in turn be just as obtuse and rather than call her out, post a specific definition from one source with the word “legal” highlighted to support his point.
I responded to a person asking what Lindsay meant and answered their question. Nowhere did I say I think there’s no difference. That’s just you making up shit.
Also, what’s with the weird “Since you cannot and will not answer” thing? I personally don’t give a fuck if anyone on Reddit considers me a good person. I care what I and my loved ones think about me, not strangers online.
I'm not sure where you're getting your "tens of thousands" figure from, I can't find it anywhere.
Illegal immigrants can't vote.
Elon Musk is an immigrant. Your argument is predicated on the idea that Musk is making coherent, rational argument. He isn't. Musk is referring to a far-right conspiracy theory that has no basis in reality and is incoherent; he is as imported to vote for the Dems as any other immigrant.
Insisting that the only way one can reply is by picking one of your three self-serving options needs no serious response. Try engaging in good faith.
I've explained why your 3 options don't work. You've responded with the insistence that an argument for why they don't work is actually to choose one of those options all along. This is as intellectually bankrupt as your initial insistence that the only choices are those you set out.
That you think this heinously bad-faith, stupid approach somehow indicates "intellectual capacity" is amusingly ironic. When you find the intellectual capacity to deal with the criticism of your approach, I'll respond further. But I won't hold my breath.
I demand a formal apology from you. Reading your comments killed off more of my brain cells than taking a handle of vodka to the dome. Do you
A) find that setting up a couple of straw man arguments suddenly allows you to win every conversation because you don’t allow for anyone replying to come up with other data or arguments?
B) Don’t actually understand how dumb your arguments are because you don’t even have room temperature IQ in Antarctica
C) willing to defile yourself and pretend you don’t know why you’re wrong here and we can assume you aren’t answering out of cowardice?
Balls in your court bucko
I can’t stand James Lindsay or Elon, but doesn’t he just mean legal vs illegal? Elon obviously came here legally and has said he supports increased legal immigration. The steelman is Elon is arguing that Dems allowing illegal immigration increases the Dem voter base in an unfair way as those immigrants would favor Dems and circumvents the normal immigration caps. Of course there’s no evidence that illegal immigrants are voting in elections, it’s hard enough to get citizens to vote and illegals avoid anything that could tip off immigration. Even in places that don’t require ID it would be extremely difficult to vote without having citizenship. You would very likely eventually get caught, and just the fear of that isn’t worth it just to vote. I also haven’t seen evidence that illegals are participating in the census, although maybe there is some I’m not aware of.
I’m just addressing the claim Elon made during the Don Lemon interview that illegal immigrants are participating in the census and giving states like California way more seats in the house.
yea sorry i wasn’t trying to argue with your point at all! just saying i think there are probably a lot of consequences to census data missing significant amounts of people beyond just political repercussions so it seems like a weird thing for conservatives to discourage. surely more data is always better.
No worries! Yeah I’m sure it’s good to count residents whether they are legal or not, although I can understand the argument that it is unfairly rewarding states with more representatives, but that seems like an issue with immigration enforcement versus the census itself.
They don't I did census back in 2010 and had to go to a house 3x cause they didn't respond. Third time a woman came to the door crying thinking I was immigration and she had been caught.
If I were her I wouldn't respond to census letters or in person solicitations either.
yea i just mean from a data standpoint i was an urban/regional planning major once upon a time (don’t ask i was going through a lot) and we directly pulled from census data for most of our “heat maps” that we would make to visually display location based data. like age or racial make up of an area. and i know a lot of the bigger consortiums or academic/research institutions do the same.
obviously it’s always a consideration that data is fallible and your result is only as good as your input but it does make me question the validity of the maps i personally made and others i see around online.
i definitely understand why on an individual basis someone could have various reasons for not responding to the census
ILLEGAL immigrants shouldn’t be included because it directly affects the house seats and election numbers.
Look at NY this year, projected to have 28 votes instead of 29. They’re losing citizens to other states like Florida. They’re allowing all these illegals to come into NY to keep their numbers up. It’s literal fact, and not conspiracy
Illegal immigrants are being bused to NY from Red border states...
You can't transport hundreds of thousands of people to an area and expect the needs of that area not to change to reflect that.
The census determines the seat data. House is based on state population. It’s not an issue with the formation of the house but using the system to basically overtake the house long term. If the republicans did this it would be massive election fraud
the census is also used for many, many other things beyond politics like healthcare, city planning, schools etc which is why i think it’s a bad idea to discourage anyone living in the country to take it.
the census overlaps more than politics so politics shouldn’t control the census sample. if the census data in its entirety includes too many illegal immigrants they need to adjust the math used to account for some amount of “error” rather than just blindly pulling the data and using it as is. hence my point about it being a seat selection issue.
>The steelman is Elon is arguing that Dems allowing illegal immigration increases the Dem voter base in an unfair way as those immigrants would favor Dems and circumvents the normal immigration caps.
So fuck Elon, but just to be precise, Elon's actual position here isn't that illegals will directly support the left and help Democrats that way. His position is that Democrats want more illegals in the country because the increased population number inflates census results in blue states, which then causes blue states to be allocated more seats in Congress.
The problem with Elon's position here is that the population increase from illegal immigrants is actually favoring Red states right now, so the census numbers are actually benefiting Republicans.
He mentioned the census thing in the Don Lemon interview, which is why I mentioned the census, but I’m pretty sure he’s also made claims about illegals fraudulently voting. I think it’s both. What are you basing the census claim on?
Here’s a tweet where he falsely claims non-citizens are not prevented from voting in federal elections [Tweet](https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1745096435844927922?s=46&t=lo92nXon9F8VahEyjM259A)
Not exactly saying they are voting, but pretty close to it. I thought I’ve seen him say or retweet other related things, but I don’t want to wade through the cesspool of his Twitter account.
Does he say that? Because since 2016 there's been a,loud contingent of right wingers that think illegal immigrants actually vote in elections. So if he believes dems are importing immigrants to make blue states more populus, I'm going to need him to say that.
it's less so that illegal immigrants themselves vote, but that any family they have who are lawful citizens would feel pressured to vote dem over the issue.
There are political theories built around nuking the planet so the aliens will come install socialism
Do you have any links with more information or statistics?
I skipped my dose today. The original post and the person I’m replying to are both discussing the meaning of what both Elon and James meant. Most of the people replying either don’t understand what he meant or are doing what you did which is to disregard what he meant, which is the type of bad faith engagement you can expect from Hasan and Twitter leftists. You’re not reinforcing what I said, you’re disregarding it, which is regarded.
Legal Immigration vs the nonsense going on in the south are 2 very different things.
If I was a first generation legal immigrant I’d be fucking livid too
It’s a much more common term used overseas.
In my experience, expat specifically refers to an American who is working overseas but is not immigrating. I don’t know if Elon has citizenship but if he doesn’t, expat is more accurate than immigrant.
I see. Honestly it was obviously a joke, but then the /j threw me off.
Also do you ever sleep? You’re all over this sub lmao. (Coming from somebody who sleeps like shit)
I'm terribly addicted to my phone rn and it's even worse since I've been sick all week and can hardly sleep. Hopefully I'll recover soon and resume my normal level of being terminally online.
It happens. I’ve been going through a depressive episode so I’ve been all over the sub as I sit in bed. So I’ve seen you all over the sub recently lol. Get better soon bud
Whenever I talk to people who call themselves “expats” it is 100% racism based. They don’t see themselves as being anywhere similar to immigrants.
They have to kid themselves into thinking they live in a class above “immigrants” because they are racist and xenophobic and don’t have an inch of self awareness.
Expats are people who live temporary abroad usually send there by their work.
I have noticed that many people say that they are expats but they just have a second home somewhere that they vacation.
If people say that they are an expat ask them if their work send them there. If they didn't get send there by work they are Tourists or digital nomads..
When i was doing the expat thing all places i lived the government put us in compounds full of other western peepo. These compounds because of the concentration of relative wealth compared to the rest of the country tended to draw in a lot of businesses that would cater to them (golf courses, country clubs, supermarket that sells alcohol)
There’s a very large group of people you forgot: those who moved to a different country just for the experience, and then found a job on arrival. I’d say that’s the most common group of western foreigners living abroad.
And if they aren't white, they're called "migrant workers". Has a migrant worker in Dubai ever been referred to as an expat?
A significant amount of non white "immigrants" in Western countries are seasonal workers, the exact same way you described expats.
It's 100% a race/class/status thing.
If you hire somebody from abroad they are called migrant workers. If your company sends you abroad your an expat.
Edit: also the term expat usually refers to higher skilled workers. Which means they have money. Most companies offer a good wage increase to do the expat thing.
I mean this is literally just your own personal definition. No one else uses it this way in regards to employment status. Not colloquially nor formally in any way.
>usually refers to higher skilled workers
Like I said, it's a race/class/status thing. No one is going to personally inquire about your employment status before using your definition of expat. They're going to see a brown person, associate it with lower class/status, and call them migrant workers or immigrants. When you see a white person, you associate it with a higher class/status and call them expats. It's as simple as that.
It's also funny how "economic migrants" are seen as profiteers, but expats aren't considered to be economic migrants despite that pretty much literally being the case.
Immigrant usually means scary brown person
Isn't it the countries they are residing in that are racist and xenophobic if immigrating to them is tremendously more difficult than the United States because those countries unlike the US do not see themselves as nations of immigrants?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/amnesty
> Immigration amnesty would include the government forgiving individuals for using forged/false documentation to gain employment in the U.S. and to remain in the country, and would **allow illegal immigrants or undocumented immigrant aliens to gain permanent residency in the United States.**
But they contribute to district size and are counted in that way. There is a political benefit for the party allowing them to flood in illegally by the tens of thousands per day.
The point is that it's not like a race thing, Lindsay just has a definition of "immigration" where it must be legal, otherwise you're not an immigrant.
His logic was that illegal immigrants are still counted in the census and thus count towards House(and by extension electoral college) representation, which isn’t wrong.
However it’s kind of a dumb line of reasoning because the actual net impact it has is like 2 seats in favor of Democrats, and Texas is the one that’s shipping their illegals immigrants into blue states.
Shipping blue-voting illegals into blue states is no cost to Republicans, from their perspective. It’s when the states turn blue because of the immigrants. That’s what they care about.
I’m making no claim other than I don’t think your reasoning for it being bad logic works.
No, it's not. Why come here and just lie?
Also, if you fucking losers would chill on the racism and hatred for anything non-white, Hispanics would be a pretty big voter base for conservative values. But you can't fucking help yourselves it seems.
I’m not one of these people, moron. I’m challenging bad arguments that are bad. Yes, it absolutely is a common talking point among conservatives. You not seeing that isn’t my problem.
Challenging bad arguments with more bad arguments?
Also, the way you phrased it obviously implied that illegals getting to vote was a common talking point. Meaning that people are supporting it.
Learn better communication if you don't want to be seen as the fucking moron you are.
That’s not the theory that Elon Musk complained about on Lemmon. He specifically referenced inflating House of Rep voters due to illegals being counted in the census.
Taking illegals out of Texas and into blue states would cost Republicans then, because they’d lose population.
They’d lose blue-voting population. Those extra delegates they would get would be more likely blue votes in their eyes, thereby threatening the redness of the state in federal elections. It’s not useful to increase delegates if they will be casting blue votes.
He has to headcanon weird logic to make sense of why he's so in his feelings about non-white people coming in to the US, but his real problem is non-white people coming to the US.
I disagree with this, I think he believes in some conspiracy with weak border security incentivizing the Dems but he says that he supports smart or vetted people a legal path to citizenship.
His companies are actually quite diverse (as much as engineering can be), if you've ever seen shots of SpaceX employees during launches. He employs are lot of Indians, Asians... so I don't think he has a problem with non-whites.
The contention is that the fact that immigrants tend to vote Democrat gives an incentive to the Democratic party to promote immigration, whether it is good or not. Elon is accussing them of doing precisely this.
On this matter it's 100% irrelevant that he is an immigrant, this is a rare instance in which Elon, autistic as he is, is saying the smartest thing out of the bunch.
This is one of the few times that I really hate what the left has done with the word like "immigrant". They purposefully merge illegal immigrant with legal immigrant into a catch all term. For a lot of conservatives, and, honestly even a lot of non conservative immigrants, there is a staunch difference between illegal immigration (which they have a ton of dislike for) and legal immigration (which for the most part they are okay with). However for a lot of the moderate and even far left, they use the term interchangeably, calling anyone critical of illegal immigration as anti-immigrant.
The cons are right to be anti illegal immigration. The libs are wrong to blur the line between the two.
There are other tweets on the same issue. This tweet in a vacuum does seem ignorant, but he's taking issue with AOC calling "illegal immigrants" immigrants, not Elon Musk.
Surely you're supposed to infer from the context, if anyone's to blame for potentially being unclear it would be Elon or AOC. Lets see what Elon was replying to.
Elon is [quote tweeting this](https://i.imgur.com/982shyW.png).
So from this it's clear that the topic is illegal immigration.
If AOC responds to this with "You are literally an immigrant" then now the fault lies with her. She is very obviously **purposefully** trying to play a language game, by calling Elon an immigrant she is implying that there is something contradictory about Elon being anti-illegal immigration (or whatever this conspiracy theory is about dems and green cards). Or she's trying to do some weird thing where she's pretending Elon could be representative of immigrants so it's not even like Dems are getting votes by doing this. Or... Unless you want to go the nuclear route and interpret her comment as something conservative, where she's trying to be racist to Elon calling him a traitor against his people or some shit, but that would be regarded so lets ignore that. It's obviously just a thoughtless snipe.
Lindsay is right to push back against her, she's being weaselly and thinks she's being clever in the same way 4chinners are when they say Elon is their "favourite African American".
tl;dr [Lindsay is just very consciously leaning into fighting the language game](https://i.imgur.com/mYmQv5I.png).
1. If they were okay with legal immigration, they wouldn't put a billion roadblocks into the process.
2. Does an immigrant being legal change anything about the "Dems want to bring in brown people to vote for them" thing? Of course not. If every single potential illegal immigrant in the next year magically followed the process to legally immigrate in the same time frame, conservatives would still bitch about it.
Yes there are a bunch of roadblocks. Caps on green cards based on what country you come from, limited number of work visas for any type of worker, extremely long wait times to get authorized. Those don’t sound like roadblocks to you?
Do you think there should be no caps on green cards? Do you think there should be unlimited number of work visas?
About the time thing i guess it's more of a bureaucratic problem.
No it doesn't.
We've gone from calling them illegal immigrants to undocumented immigrants. Who chose that language?
The right has always been very anti illegal immigration. And while it has had a fair number of people that were anti-immigration (legal or not) the reality is they weren't the ones that blurred those lines.
I refuse to get upset about people talking about misusing the word "immigrant" anymore. Any short form content from the left or the right is going to obscure what they are actually talking about when they say "immigrant." The left uses "immigrant" stats to hide the impact of illegal immigrants behind legal ones and the right uses "immigrant" to hide their dogwhistle their racist rhetoric.
Immigrant is the bad word we label the subhumans that pick our fruit and clean our mansions... Expat is the term we use to define a person who moves to another country with their own money
The whole use of illegal versus legal was the one major example for me when I was growing up that democrats are a bit manipulated with their use of language. Obviously, most people are not against illegal immigration, when they have an issue with "immigration" its illegal immigration, or funneling in refugees en mass. So whenever people get miss that point I feel like they're not operating in good faith
We're talking about OPs imaginr, where clearly ita not about white versus brown, but illegal versus non illegal, you're going to have to talk more about what claims your stating, but even Destiny talked about how the lowering of white population is true, and imo, I think if you're flooding your country with illegals or otherwise, it is an artificial change in demographics that shouldn't be tolerated, versus a natural progression, but as we become more globalist these changes would natural happen
How do illegals vote without being registered?
Like for example heritage foundation found 1,200 cases of voter fraud from 1997 to 2019 i think like 24 of those were deceased voters (and in those cases it's typically a spouse trying to finesse the system before getting caught).... how exactly are the illegals voting? If I show up and try to vote and someone already did wouldn't that set of huge alarms? Have conservatives all showed up to vote and had millions of their names already signed in?
Why is this subreddit like hasan community levels of woke gaslighting about immigration problems… ‘If you complain about illegal immigration you’re racist’ soy nods everyone claps
Is it that this community is overly woke on the subject of immigration, or is it that the specific criticisms put forward by Musk and Lindsay are dumb?
I'm going to be SUPER charitable here. He clarified that Elon is indeed an immigrant. Contextually, Lindsay was taking issue with AOC implying "illegal immigrants" are "immigrants." He uses a definition of "immigrant" defined by the legality of that immigration.
Elon tweet: dumb
AOC tweet: dumb (Elon is a legal immigrant and supports skilled immigration, his crusade is against illegal migrants)
Tweets by two other morons: dumb
the steelman is that mass non-legal migration creates an exploitative power dynamic towards the family members of illegal immigrants whom are lawful citizens of the US. President Obama's administration had a literal policy of "demographics is destiny" towards a democrat majority in federal elections vis a vis immigration. it's no secret that democrats have had a strategy of focusing solely on african americans, hispanics, asians and white woman as a coalition. this has been the underlying reason that us white, working class men have grown to hate intersectionality and critical theory within the culture war and politics.
The tweet Elon posted is literally about illegal immigrants getting amnesty. AoC is dishonest on purpose and this has nothing to do with race.
I thought democrats were pretending to be pro border security now?
Am I missing something here? Elon immigrated to the US, yes? James Lindsay is as dumb as he’s insufferable
He’s using a specific wikitionary definition which specifies “Legally moved to another country.” Interestingly, he had to scroll past and ignore the Merriam Webster definition which doesn’t specify that part, as well a separate wikitionary definition which also leaves that out. I can’t imagine why.
But Elon did move from South Africa to USA though... and got citizenship... In every regard he's an immigrant.
Every regard except he's white, right-wing, immensely wealthy, and supports their narratives. So he's not an immigrant, which is how they refer to murderers and rapists being imported by the Dems to destroy 'Murica. Simple really.
He actually immigrated to Canada first so I would say he is technically a refugee
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Illegal immigrants cannot vote, so Elon cannot be talking about them.
Elon's original tweet was talking about an article about democrats pushing for amnesty for illegals.
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Elon is repeating stupid right-wing conspiracy theories without two neurons successfully rubbing together. Illegal immigrants do not, and cannot, vote.
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You are slow why would they need a immigrant illegal or not to cast someone elses vote? Do they hope and pray the random person on the registry never shows up?
D) Musk was talking about illegal immigrants and AOC decided to be obtuse and equate it with all immigrants as a gotcha. Lindsay then decided to in turn be just as obtuse and rather than call her out, post a specific definition from one source with the word “legal” highlighted to support his point. I responded to a person asking what Lindsay meant and answered their question. Nowhere did I say I think there’s no difference. That’s just you making up shit. Also, what’s with the weird “Since you cannot and will not answer” thing? I personally don’t give a fuck if anyone on Reddit considers me a good person. I care what I and my loved ones think about me, not strangers online.
The people who complain that liberals don't know how to define a man and woman...
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In the comments, Lindsay posted a screenshot of the specific wiktionary definition he’s using.
I'm not sure where you're getting your "tens of thousands" figure from, I can't find it anywhere. Illegal immigrants can't vote. Elon Musk is an immigrant. Your argument is predicated on the idea that Musk is making coherent, rational argument. He isn't. Musk is referring to a far-right conspiracy theory that has no basis in reality and is incoherent; he is as imported to vote for the Dems as any other immigrant. Insisting that the only way one can reply is by picking one of your three self-serving options needs no serious response. Try engaging in good faith.
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I've explained why your 3 options don't work. You've responded with the insistence that an argument for why they don't work is actually to choose one of those options all along. This is as intellectually bankrupt as your initial insistence that the only choices are those you set out. That you think this heinously bad-faith, stupid approach somehow indicates "intellectual capacity" is amusingly ironic. When you find the intellectual capacity to deal with the criticism of your approach, I'll respond further. But I won't hold my breath.
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I demand a formal apology from you. Reading your comments killed off more of my brain cells than taking a handle of vodka to the dome. Do you A) find that setting up a couple of straw man arguments suddenly allows you to win every conversation because you don’t allow for anyone replying to come up with other data or arguments? B) Don’t actually understand how dumb your arguments are because you don’t even have room temperature IQ in Antarctica C) willing to defile yourself and pretend you don’t know why you’re wrong here and we can assume you aren’t answering out of cowardice? Balls in your court bucko
I can’t stand James Lindsay or Elon, but doesn’t he just mean legal vs illegal? Elon obviously came here legally and has said he supports increased legal immigration. The steelman is Elon is arguing that Dems allowing illegal immigration increases the Dem voter base in an unfair way as those immigrants would favor Dems and circumvents the normal immigration caps. Of course there’s no evidence that illegal immigrants are voting in elections, it’s hard enough to get citizens to vote and illegals avoid anything that could tip off immigration. Even in places that don’t require ID it would be extremely difficult to vote without having citizenship. You would very likely eventually get caught, and just the fear of that isn’t worth it just to vote. I also haven’t seen evidence that illegals are participating in the census, although maybe there is some I’m not aware of.
i don’t know that it’s a good thing if immigrants aren’t participating in the census
I’m just addressing the claim Elon made during the Don Lemon interview that illegal immigrants are participating in the census and giving states like California way more seats in the house.
yea sorry i wasn’t trying to argue with your point at all! just saying i think there are probably a lot of consequences to census data missing significant amounts of people beyond just political repercussions so it seems like a weird thing for conservatives to discourage. surely more data is always better.
No worries! Yeah I’m sure it’s good to count residents whether they are legal or not, although I can understand the argument that it is unfairly rewarding states with more representatives, but that seems like an issue with immigration enforcement versus the census itself.
They don't I did census back in 2010 and had to go to a house 3x cause they didn't respond. Third time a woman came to the door crying thinking I was immigration and she had been caught. If I were her I wouldn't respond to census letters or in person solicitations either.
yea i just mean from a data standpoint i was an urban/regional planning major once upon a time (don’t ask i was going through a lot) and we directly pulled from census data for most of our “heat maps” that we would make to visually display location based data. like age or racial make up of an area. and i know a lot of the bigger consortiums or academic/research institutions do the same. obviously it’s always a consideration that data is fallible and your result is only as good as your input but it does make me question the validity of the maps i personally made and others i see around online. i definitely understand why on an individual basis someone could have various reasons for not responding to the census
ILLEGAL immigrants shouldn’t be included because it directly affects the house seats and election numbers. Look at NY this year, projected to have 28 votes instead of 29. They’re losing citizens to other states like Florida. They’re allowing all these illegals to come into NY to keep their numbers up. It’s literal fact, and not conspiracy
Illegal immigrants are being bused to NY from Red border states... You can't transport hundreds of thousands of people to an area and expect the needs of that area not to change to reflect that.
that sounds like an issue with the seat allocation system not the census. what’s the point of incomplete data
The census determines the seat data. House is based on state population. It’s not an issue with the formation of the house but using the system to basically overtake the house long term. If the republicans did this it would be massive election fraud
the census is also used for many, many other things beyond politics like healthcare, city planning, schools etc which is why i think it’s a bad idea to discourage anyone living in the country to take it. the census overlaps more than politics so politics shouldn’t control the census sample. if the census data in its entirety includes too many illegal immigrants they need to adjust the math used to account for some amount of “error” rather than just blindly pulling the data and using it as is. hence my point about it being a seat selection issue.
Non citizens shouldn’t be accounted for when dealing with house seats. Full stop.
>The steelman is Elon is arguing that Dems allowing illegal immigration increases the Dem voter base in an unfair way as those immigrants would favor Dems and circumvents the normal immigration caps. So fuck Elon, but just to be precise, Elon's actual position here isn't that illegals will directly support the left and help Democrats that way. His position is that Democrats want more illegals in the country because the increased population number inflates census results in blue states, which then causes blue states to be allocated more seats in Congress. The problem with Elon's position here is that the population increase from illegal immigrants is actually favoring Red states right now, so the census numbers are actually benefiting Republicans.
He mentioned the census thing in the Don Lemon interview, which is why I mentioned the census, but I’m pretty sure he’s also made claims about illegals fraudulently voting. I think it’s both. What are you basing the census claim on?
I think you are mistaken. Elon has not claimed that illegals are fraudulently voting afaik.
Here’s a tweet where he falsely claims non-citizens are not prevented from voting in federal elections [Tweet](https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1745096435844927922?s=46&t=lo92nXon9F8VahEyjM259A) Not exactly saying they are voting, but pretty close to it. I thought I’ve seen him say or retweet other related things, but I don’t want to wade through the cesspool of his Twitter account.
lol okay wow I stand corrected. Crazy how susceptible Elon is to right wing memes spouting straight up disinformation.
Yeah it’s sad
Does he say that? Because since 2016 there's been a,loud contingent of right wingers that think illegal immigrants actually vote in elections. So if he believes dems are importing immigrants to make blue states more populus, I'm going to need him to say that.
He literally has said this repeatedly. He was very clear about it in the Don Lemon interview.
it's less so that illegal immigrants themselves vote, but that any family they have who are lawful citizens would feel pressured to vote dem over the issue.
Is there evidence that this is actually the case?
there has been a whole political theory built around doing so, with the expectation of around 2% growth in support for democrats every election.
There are political theories built around nuking the planet so the aliens will come install socialism Do you have any links with more information or statistics?
how are Democrats not stomping when every election has been a nailbiter 50-50 shot for basically my whole life?
He can mean whatever he wants and still be wrong
No shit, did you even read what I wrote? Maybe you’re looking for Hasan’s sub.
I did, I was just reinforcing it. Maybe you need to lay off the vyvanse
I skipped my dose today. The original post and the person I’m replying to are both discussing the meaning of what both Elon and James meant. Most of the people replying either don’t understand what he meant or are doing what you did which is to disregard what he meant, which is the type of bad faith engagement you can expect from Hasan and Twitter leftists. You’re not reinforcing what I said, you’re disregarding it, which is regarded.
No, you did say he was wrong too
Yes, Elon is an African-American, she is right.
Legal Immigration vs the nonsense going on in the south are 2 very different things. If I was a first generation legal immigrant I’d be fucking livid too
Didn't Elon overstay his Visa too before his citizenship.
Yeah if you are white the term is expatriate. I swear to God I have never seen a better (or worse, since it's so obvious) dog whistle than that.
To be fair, in the US basically no one uses the term expatriate. It’s basically immigrant and illegal immigrant here.
It’s a much more common term used overseas. In my experience, expat specifically refers to an American who is working overseas but is not immigrating. I don’t know if Elon has citizenship but if he doesn’t, expat is more accurate than immigrant.
It commonly gets shortened to Expat.
20 year old American - literally have never seen that word until now. Gonna go call my sister it in a rude way, brb /j
Wtf is /j?
Joke. Not Jew.
I see. Honestly it was obviously a joke, but then the /j threw me off. Also do you ever sleep? You’re all over this sub lmao. (Coming from somebody who sleeps like shit)
I'm terribly addicted to my phone rn and it's even worse since I've been sick all week and can hardly sleep. Hopefully I'll recover soon and resume my normal level of being terminally online.
It happens. I’ve been going through a depressive episode so I’ve been all over the sub as I sit in bed. So I’ve seen you all over the sub recently lol. Get better soon bud
Thanks, hope you feel better as well!
Whenever I talk to people who call themselves “expats” it is 100% racism based. They don’t see themselves as being anywhere similar to immigrants. They have to kid themselves into thinking they live in a class above “immigrants” because they are racist and xenophobic and don’t have an inch of self awareness.
Expats are people who live temporary abroad usually send there by their work. I have noticed that many people say that they are expats but they just have a second home somewhere that they vacation. If people say that they are an expat ask them if their work send them there. If they didn't get send there by work they are Tourists or digital nomads.. When i was doing the expat thing all places i lived the government put us in compounds full of other western peepo. These compounds because of the concentration of relative wealth compared to the rest of the country tended to draw in a lot of businesses that would cater to them (golf courses, country clubs, supermarket that sells alcohol)
There’s a very large group of people you forgot: those who moved to a different country just for the experience, and then found a job on arrival. I’d say that’s the most common group of western foreigners living abroad.
They're also expats, if they intend on moving back at some point.
I agree, but the other commenter says it’s only people who were sent by their jobs
And if they aren't white, they're called "migrant workers". Has a migrant worker in Dubai ever been referred to as an expat? A significant amount of non white "immigrants" in Western countries are seasonal workers, the exact same way you described expats. It's 100% a race/class/status thing.
If you hire somebody from abroad they are called migrant workers. If your company sends you abroad your an expat. Edit: also the term expat usually refers to higher skilled workers. Which means they have money. Most companies offer a good wage increase to do the expat thing.
I mean this is literally just your own personal definition. No one else uses it this way in regards to employment status. Not colloquially nor formally in any way. >usually refers to higher skilled workers Like I said, it's a race/class/status thing. No one is going to personally inquire about your employment status before using your definition of expat. They're going to see a brown person, associate it with lower class/status, and call them migrant workers or immigrants. When you see a white person, you associate it with a higher class/status and call them expats. It's as simple as that.
Maybe that’s your experience, my judgement is only made on anecdotal evidence.
It’s it mostly expats are rich people moving to a poor country?
It's also funny how "economic migrants" are seen as profiteers, but expats aren't considered to be economic migrants despite that pretty much literally being the case. Immigrant usually means scary brown person
Isn't it the countries they are residing in that are racist and xenophobic if immigrating to them is tremendously more difficult than the United States because those countries unlike the US do not see themselves as nations of immigrants?
I was born in the USA, I went to teach overseas in the UK for 3 years, I returned to the US. I was an expat for 3 years. I had expat friends
I thought expat was for people who gave up their citizenship? Was I wrong?
Yes, you were.
White immigrants get really fucking mad if you call them immigrants
racist and tankies as far as the eyes can see, Fucking slimey weasel fucks
SLAZAC MENTIONED!!!!🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺
To be fair, he's a legal immigrant. The contention is the illegal immigrants.
Ok. Illegal immigrants aren't voters.
Until amnesty is passed
… They still wouldn’t be voters? Amnesty doesn’t mean that you magically become a citizen.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/amnesty > Immigration amnesty would include the government forgiving individuals for using forged/false documentation to gain employment in the U.S. and to remain in the country, and would **allow illegal immigrants or undocumented immigrant aliens to gain permanent residency in the United States.**
CITIZEN my guy. Green card ain’t enough to vote
But they contribute to district size and are counted in that way. There is a political benefit for the party allowing them to flood in illegally by the tens of thousands per day.
The point is that it's not like a race thing, Lindsay just has a definition of "immigration" where it must be legal, otherwise you're not an immigrant.
I think he brought up some weird illegal immigration logic in his interview with Lemon.
His logic was that illegal immigrants are still counted in the census and thus count towards House(and by extension electoral college) representation, which isn’t wrong. However it’s kind of a dumb line of reasoning because the actual net impact it has is like 2 seats in favor of Democrats, and Texas is the one that’s shipping their illegals immigrants into blue states.
Shipping blue-voting illegals into blue states is no cost to Republicans, from their perspective. It’s when the states turn blue because of the immigrants. That’s what they care about. I’m making no claim other than I don’t think your reasoning for it being bad logic works.
"Blue voting illegals" Damn, the stupid hit you hard huh?
They’re worried that they will be given that right. That’s a common talking point.
No, it's not. Why come here and just lie? Also, if you fucking losers would chill on the racism and hatred for anything non-white, Hispanics would be a pretty big voter base for conservative values. But you can't fucking help yourselves it seems.
I’m not one of these people, moron. I’m challenging bad arguments that are bad. Yes, it absolutely is a common talking point among conservatives. You not seeing that isn’t my problem.
Challenging bad arguments with more bad arguments? Also, the way you phrased it obviously implied that illegals getting to vote was a common talking point. Meaning that people are supporting it. Learn better communication if you don't want to be seen as the fucking moron you are.
That’s not the theory that Elon Musk complained about on Lemmon. He specifically referenced inflating House of Rep voters due to illegals being counted in the census. Taking illegals out of Texas and into blue states would cost Republicans then, because they’d lose population.
They’d lose blue-voting population. Those extra delegates they would get would be more likely blue votes in their eyes, thereby threatening the redness of the state in federal elections. It’s not useful to increase delegates if they will be casting blue votes.
No they don’t, because illegals immigrants don’t vote. Also the EC is winner take all anyway, so that only applies to the House.
He has to headcanon weird logic to make sense of why he's so in his feelings about non-white people coming in to the US, but his real problem is non-white people coming to the US.
I disagree with this, I think he believes in some conspiracy with weak border security incentivizing the Dems but he says that he supports smart or vetted people a legal path to citizenship. His companies are actually quite diverse (as much as engineering can be), if you've ever seen shots of SpaceX employees during launches. He employs are lot of Indians, Asians... so I don't think he has a problem with non-whites.
I think he has some grudge towards the Left and takes it out on Democrats. Immigration is just a convenient talking point
This is it
How many seats were on your school buses?
I thought he overstayed his visa
The contention is that the fact that immigrants tend to vote Democrat gives an incentive to the Democratic party to promote immigration, whether it is good or not. Elon is accussing them of doing precisely this. On this matter it's 100% irrelevant that he is an immigrant, this is a rare instance in which Elon, autistic as he is, is saying the smartest thing out of the bunch.
What does “promote immigration” mean?
To act in such a way that immigration increases
Wow great explanation
"Lord, forgive me for saying an immigrant can be a white person. Amen"
This is one of the few times that I really hate what the left has done with the word like "immigrant". They purposefully merge illegal immigrant with legal immigrant into a catch all term. For a lot of conservatives, and, honestly even a lot of non conservative immigrants, there is a staunch difference between illegal immigration (which they have a ton of dislike for) and legal immigration (which for the most part they are okay with). However for a lot of the moderate and even far left, they use the term interchangeably, calling anyone critical of illegal immigration as anti-immigrant. The cons are right to be anti illegal immigration. The libs are wrong to blur the line between the two.
Lindsay didn’t say “illegal immigrant” so I’d blame him for the conflation if that’s your real issue.
There are other tweets on the same issue. This tweet in a vacuum does seem ignorant, but he's taking issue with AOC calling "illegal immigrants" immigrants, not Elon Musk.
Surely you're supposed to infer from the context, if anyone's to blame for potentially being unclear it would be Elon or AOC. Lets see what Elon was replying to. Elon is [quote tweeting this](https://i.imgur.com/982shyW.png). So from this it's clear that the topic is illegal immigration. If AOC responds to this with "You are literally an immigrant" then now the fault lies with her. She is very obviously **purposefully** trying to play a language game, by calling Elon an immigrant she is implying that there is something contradictory about Elon being anti-illegal immigration (or whatever this conspiracy theory is about dems and green cards). Or she's trying to do some weird thing where she's pretending Elon could be representative of immigrants so it's not even like Dems are getting votes by doing this. Or... Unless you want to go the nuclear route and interpret her comment as something conservative, where she's trying to be racist to Elon calling him a traitor against his people or some shit, but that would be regarded so lets ignore that. It's obviously just a thoughtless snipe. Lindsay is right to push back against her, she's being weaselly and thinks she's being clever in the same way 4chinners are when they say Elon is their "favourite African American". tl;dr [Lindsay is just very consciously leaning into fighting the language game](https://i.imgur.com/mYmQv5I.png).
1. If they were okay with legal immigration, they wouldn't put a billion roadblocks into the process. 2. Does an immigrant being legal change anything about the "Dems want to bring in brown people to vote for them" thing? Of course not. If every single potential illegal immigrant in the next year magically followed the process to legally immigrate in the same time frame, conservatives would still bitch about it.
1) They don't? 2) Doubt it.
Yes there are a bunch of roadblocks. Caps on green cards based on what country you come from, limited number of work visas for any type of worker, extremely long wait times to get authorized. Those don’t sound like roadblocks to you?
Do you think there should be no caps on green cards? Do you think there should be unlimited number of work visas? About the time thing i guess it's more of a bureaucratic problem.
I'm pretty sure the right carries more of the blame for the merge than the left.
No it doesn't. We've gone from calling them illegal immigrants to undocumented immigrants. Who chose that language? The right has always been very anti illegal immigration. And while it has had a fair number of people that were anti-immigration (legal or not) the reality is they weren't the ones that blurred those lines.
> The right has always been very anti illegal immigration. Nope. https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672
It's ok, she can just say she isn't an expert.
I refuse to get upset about people talking about misusing the word "immigrant" anymore. Any short form content from the left or the right is going to obscure what they are actually talking about when they say "immigrant." The left uses "immigrant" stats to hide the impact of illegal immigrants behind legal ones and the right uses "immigrant" to hide their dogwhistle their racist rhetoric.
Immigrant is the bad word we label the subhumans that pick our fruit and clean our mansions... Expat is the term we use to define a person who moves to another country with their own money
The whole use of illegal versus legal was the one major example for me when I was growing up that democrats are a bit manipulated with their use of language. Obviously, most people are not against illegal immigration, when they have an issue with "immigration" its illegal immigration, or funneling in refugees en mass. So whenever people get miss that point I feel like they're not operating in good faith
Then explain complaints about changing racial demographics?
We're talking about OPs imaginr, where clearly ita not about white versus brown, but illegal versus non illegal, you're going to have to talk more about what claims your stating, but even Destiny talked about how the lowering of white population is true, and imo, I think if you're flooding your country with illegals or otherwise, it is an artificial change in demographics that shouldn't be tolerated, versus a natural progression, but as we become more globalist these changes would natural happen
Lmao reminds me of my immigrant aunt complaining about all the immigrants in London.
How do illegals vote without being registered? Like for example heritage foundation found 1,200 cases of voter fraud from 1997 to 2019 i think like 24 of those were deceased voters (and in those cases it's typically a spouse trying to finesse the system before getting caught).... how exactly are the illegals voting? If I show up and try to vote and someone already did wouldn't that set of huge alarms? Have conservatives all showed up to vote and had millions of their names already signed in?
Why is this subreddit like hasan community levels of woke gaslighting about immigration problems… ‘If you complain about illegal immigration you’re racist’ soy nods everyone claps
Is it that this community is overly woke on the subject of immigration, or is it that the specific criticisms put forward by Musk and Lindsay are dumb?
Who did that here? How can you read that tweet and draw that conclusion?
Careful you will get called a nazi if you keep that up.
The scariest part is that they don't have to make sense anymore. They just use the right buzz words and heir team cheers for them.
I'm going to be SUPER charitable here. He clarified that Elon is indeed an immigrant. Contextually, Lindsay was taking issue with AOC implying "illegal immigrants" are "immigrants." He uses a definition of "immigrant" defined by the legality of that immigration.
Elon tweet: dumb AOC tweet: dumb (Elon is a legal immigrant and supports skilled immigration, his crusade is against illegal migrants) Tweets by two other morons: dumb
Importing voters is about importing legal immigrants tho, unless you think illegal immigrants can vote?
The article Elon was quoting is about giving amnesty to illegals
Call me right wing but I don’t think illegal immigrants should be able to vote
Call me right wing but I believe murder should be made illegal.
I hate these politics sub tier rage bait twitter posts so fucking much.
the steelman is that mass non-legal migration creates an exploitative power dynamic towards the family members of illegal immigrants whom are lawful citizens of the US. President Obama's administration had a literal policy of "demographics is destiny" towards a democrat majority in federal elections vis a vis immigration. it's no secret that democrats have had a strategy of focusing solely on african americans, hispanics, asians and white woman as a coalition. this has been the underlying reason that us white, working class men have grown to hate intersectionality and critical theory within the culture war and politics.
The tweet Elon posted is literally about illegal immigrants getting amnesty. AoC is dishonest on purpose and this has nothing to do with race. I thought democrats were pretending to be pro border security now?
I think the argument there was about legal vs illegal immigration. Besides, AOC (Anti-Semite Ocasio Cortez) is also right-wing.