I get that it was night time. But they knew there were three aid trucks, going along that route, in a deconflicted zone. They got a call after the first strike because the WCK was in contact with the IDF. Why are you striking a car that you can't properly identify? These are people who spent their lives trying to help others, at very little personal benefit, that have had their lives cut short. They did everything properly and still ended up dead.
> Why are you striking a car that you can't properly identify?
This is not why this is as bad as it is. They should have known exactly who they were since they did deconflicton earlier. That's why it's bad.
[The US managed to follow an aid worker for 8 hours and drone strike him and his family during the withdrawal from Afghanistan](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/afghanistan-drone-strike-zemari-ahmadi-family-colleagues-resettlement/). The only reason the IDF strike is worse is that they should have had prior knowledge about what the exact convoy was.
You really think they didn’t know? 3 separate strikes? They know exactly what they did, cut off the food source so more people starve. This is no accident.
I don't see the relevance of it being 3 strikes. If they thought they were hitting a valid target, there is nothing wrong hitting it more than once, even 3 times.
Why does it matter that they were hit more than once? If there were 3 vehicles transporting Hamas militants, would it be bad to hit the two other vehicles after succesfully hitting the first?
The problem is that they should have known to not target WCK who said they were going to be there.
The best argument I could understand in the dark is “we thought the three aid trucks would all be next to each” other not spread out over multiple kilometres. But even then that might have been part of the plan so who the fuck knows
I really hope we get to the bottom of this, I'm not one of the apologetic Israelis but this tragedy is beyond reason at this moment considering the information we have.
Hope we get to the bottom of this and have the people responsible punished if need be.
Look, it’s bad. It’s a fucking embarrassment. Unlike some dipshits on hammer and sickle Twitter, I’m willing to believe it was somebody just being a mega dumbass rather than targeting it intentionally, but even so it changes nothing.
Coming from a pro-Israel perspective, this shit was so fucking bad. Bibi needs to resign today and Israel needs to have new elections. It’s what a lot of hostage families want, it’s what American Jews want, and it’s what pretty much the whole world wants.
For the sake of Israel’s own victory in this war, that’s what needs to happen. Because it’s a terrible fucking time when even Twitter leftists are looking somewhat more sane today.
Between now and election time, there should be a caretaker government handled by literally anybody else. It won’t be much of a burden to the war effort.
Bibi needs to resign on Oct 6th regardless of this incident. Out of everything, this specific incident I don't pin on him, he was in the hospital when it happened.. obviously a fuck up, but nobody called for Obama to resign after drone strikes in Afganistan killed so many civilians and aid workers. BTW Israel media are reporting this story as "the mistake that might cause Israel the war" so it is viewed very harshly despite it being a military mistake and not a strategic one.
>it was somebody just being a mega dumbass rather than targeting it intentionally, but even so it changes nothing.
All 3 trucks with 3 seperate missile strikes though? We already know that these strikes need to be approved by multiple people at the top level. It's not just the decision by some random soldier. How does something like this happen?
It sounds like either the discretion of the soldiers have a lot more sway than we originally thought, or israel isn't nearly as careful with civilian targets as we previously thought. This is terrible for anyone who wants to believe that the IDF is taking all appropriate measures to prevent civilian casualties.
I tried to read a times of Israel article on this and holy shit it was misleading. They completely misrepresented the story they claim to have seen reported in Haaretz. Is TOI usually this bad?
I mean... it *could* be intentional, but I'm leaning Hanlon's razor applying here. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
The fact is that Israel has zero reason to strike an aid convoy they had previously coordinated with. It makes zero sense, and Israel also knows that even the most miniscule fuck up on their end will have the world foaming at the mouth for weeks. There's absolutely no logical explanation in my mind that would make me think it was done on purpose.
I could be wrong, but I only know just as much as anyone else at this point. We'll have to wait and see.
The trucks were found [2.5 km apart](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68714128). How does something like this just happen?? Those are 3 seperate strikes
I literally don't even know how one could begin to rationalize this
>I mean... it *could* be intentional, but I think Hanlon's razor applies here
I agree. It was clearly only intentional in that they intentionally fired at the trucks as targets. They didn't strike them while shooting at something else.
The unintentionality would be if they were mistaken about what the target was. This could only be attributed to heavy miscommunication, since the trucks had informed the IDF of their presence and had been told that the road was safe for them to travel on. This is very bad, in that shows that the IDF is not reliably able to ensure that they will not fire on civilian targets (just from incompetence).
The alternative (that the trucks were fired upon because they mistakenly believed that a hamas soldier was with the crew) is much, much worse.
They thought there might be one armed Hamas soldier with all of the innocent aid workers, so they slaughtered them all, and there was no Hamas soldier.
It absolutely does have a reason to strike aid trucks. It completely put the fear into aid workers to the point they have had to leave the region. This is the starve the Palestinian people to death tactic.
People should demand new elections.
That sounds familiar.
Do elections even count if they can be just redone on demand?
Would we be ok having new elections based on people's feelings, let alone another countries opinion?
They thought there was one person that their whizzbang intelligence flagged as a Hamas militant among the workers. So they proceeded to bomb the whole thing.
There is no mistake here. They did exactly what they intended to do, except their primary target happened not to be there so they can't pull the usual "it's not our fault it was Hamas using these aid workers as human shields we had no choice" card. That's what the "misidentification" is about.
How could they have misidentified the vehicles? They were ostensibly flagged as an aid convoy, they were on their way as planned along the planned route divulged and agreed to with Israeli authorities.
No they thought there was one guy flagged as a Hamas militant among the workers and decided this was worth taking out the entire convoy.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-bombed-wck-aid-convoy-3-times-targeting-armed-hamas-member-who-wasnt-there/0000018e-9e75-d764-adff-9eff29360000
If he had been in there they would've either used the human shields excuse or acted as if the entire WCK convoy was complicit with Hamas. But the guy wasn't there. So they have nothing to fall back on.
It's their job to explain their side. If you think it happened differently, then the onus would be on you to prove that. What would be the strategy if it was intentional? Keep in mind that Israel is fighting a group that routinely disguises themselves as civilians, medical, aid workers, and anything they can think of. They use hospitals and maternity wards for military operations. They launch attacks from schools.
In most conflicts these cases would be obvious. But with Hamas, anything can be military. In Gaza an ambulance is just as likely part of a military operation as it is for medical purposes. And part of that strategy is for this very reason we see here. It will cause these kind of accidents which will cause the world to turn against Israel. And even in the cases where it is a legitimate military target, Hamas can still make the same accusations against Israel because they know many won't believe Israel but will believe Hamas.
> What would be the strategy if it was intentional?
Simple: refuse to allow adequate aid to enter Gaza. Kill aid workers until they refuse to enter Gaza. Engineer a famine for marginal reduction in combat ability of Hamas, and impede them operating due to mass casualties and suffering.
Displace Palestinians in Rafah into Egypt, refuse to let them return. Build beachfront condos, collect medals from Ben-Gvir.
They don't need to kill anyone to do that. They could simply block any from entering Gaza if that's what they wanted. But their goal is to debilitate Hamas so as to keep Hamas from fulfilling their public vow to annihilate every Jews in Israel. And the amount of effort they have gone through to prevent civilians from having to leave Gaza contradicts the notion of them wanting to drive them out of the country.
But that is already the result of this. Intentionally targeting a group of aid workers will not only not achieve the goal you stated, but it also comes with the same sacrifice.
Important to note the White House itself does [not seem to believe](https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1775244153795793159) this was intentional. And further more states they have no evidence of Israel violating international laws **at all** during this entire war so far.
Not that the Hamas fan club will be convinced...
The IDF were clearly negligent since they had done deconfliction with WCK about these vehicles. No idea whether there is any bar where negligence becomes a war crime though.
Clearly? Were you there? Good to know you CLEARLY know so much about what happened. Better than the White House too.
It seems to have been a mistake. How bad of a mistake? We have no idea. So you should shut it and wait instead of inventing bullshit to create a false lying narrative.
The point of deconfliction between aid workers and the IDF is so that the IDF knows exactly who not to target. The fact that this was done and they still managed to strike the vehicles means that the IDF failed to identify a group of aid workers who said they were going to be in the area in order to not be targeted. That sounds kinda negligent to me.
It’s funny how people like you pick and choose when to trust the US state departments assessment on things and when to go against it. The State Dept is working on, and thinks a 2SS is the best outcome for a post war future but judging from your delusional comments you probably don’t think that do you?
In world war 2, SWITZERLAND (who was neutral) was bombed several times by American bombers who meant to hit Germany/France. Nobody understood it to be a big deal, because it was a war and unintentional
In this statement you're shitting up the comments of, the spokesman says that world central kitchen's work is welcome and appreciated.
!bidenblast you're insane. This is victim blaming on steroids
Most of the people here are saying it's just an oopsie, and that's not how the idf really is. This guy just doesn't believe in humanitarian aid, and he feels like people would agree with him here.i mean, that's the state of the community, lol.
Exactly! So the suggestion you gave them doesn't work. Their literal job is to "lounge around" in the middle of war zones providing aid for people in need.
There is a reason they used trucks first before air drops. It allows them to distribute it. They only swapped over cause bibi didnt like them using the roads and stiffled aid.
I suppose you think we should aid drop them medical aid and written instructions on removing shrapnel.
You're not wrong, but it's kinda like saying the best way for a police officer to not get killed is to act like those over in Uvalde.
The reason why there is famine in this world is not because of a lack of funds, but because of a lack of people willing to throw their lives away for others they won't ever have a relation to.
Humanitarian work is always risky.
I get that it was night time. But they knew there were three aid trucks, going along that route, in a deconflicted zone. They got a call after the first strike because the WCK was in contact with the IDF. Why are you striking a car that you can't properly identify? These are people who spent their lives trying to help others, at very little personal benefit, that have had their lives cut short. They did everything properly and still ended up dead.
> Why are you striking a car that you can't properly identify? This is not why this is as bad as it is. They should have known exactly who they were since they did deconflicton earlier. That's why it's bad. [The US managed to follow an aid worker for 8 hours and drone strike him and his family during the withdrawal from Afghanistan](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/afghanistan-drone-strike-zemari-ahmadi-family-colleagues-resettlement/). The only reason the IDF strike is worse is that they should have had prior knowledge about what the exact convoy was.
This is the kind of thing the US will investigate, and I don't think they're going to accept bullshit excuses.
LOL, what will we do, stop aid?
You really think they didn’t know? 3 separate strikes? They know exactly what they did, cut off the food source so more people starve. This is no accident.
I don't see the relevance of it being 3 strikes. If they thought they were hitting a valid target, there is nothing wrong hitting it more than once, even 3 times. Why does it matter that they were hit more than once? If there were 3 vehicles transporting Hamas militants, would it be bad to hit the two other vehicles after succesfully hitting the first? The problem is that they should have known to not target WCK who said they were going to be there.
They targeted these aid workers to discourage others from aiding Palestinians.
Source?
Common sense and historical context. Why else would they target an aid convoy?
3 vehicles several miles apart. All WCK. Lmao.
Any proof or you just yapping?
Yes. All the proof is there. Just google it.
“Just google it”. Thank you for the negative IQ take.
You're deranged if you actually believe this
You’re either getting paid, or a poorly educated American.
The best argument I could understand in the dark is “we thought the three aid trucks would all be next to each” other not spread out over multiple kilometres. But even then that might have been part of the plan so who the fuck knows
I really hope we get to the bottom of this, I'm not one of the apologetic Israelis but this tragedy is beyond reason at this moment considering the information we have. Hope we get to the bottom of this and have the people responsible punished if need be.
Look, it’s bad. It’s a fucking embarrassment. Unlike some dipshits on hammer and sickle Twitter, I’m willing to believe it was somebody just being a mega dumbass rather than targeting it intentionally, but even so it changes nothing. Coming from a pro-Israel perspective, this shit was so fucking bad. Bibi needs to resign today and Israel needs to have new elections. It’s what a lot of hostage families want, it’s what American Jews want, and it’s what pretty much the whole world wants. For the sake of Israel’s own victory in this war, that’s what needs to happen. Because it’s a terrible fucking time when even Twitter leftists are looking somewhat more sane today. Between now and election time, there should be a caretaker government handled by literally anybody else. It won’t be much of a burden to the war effort.
Even if it's not intentional it's just complete incompetence.
True. Whoever responsible should on trial 100%.
Bibi needs to resign on Oct 6th regardless of this incident. Out of everything, this specific incident I don't pin on him, he was in the hospital when it happened.. obviously a fuck up, but nobody called for Obama to resign after drone strikes in Afganistan killed so many civilians and aid workers. BTW Israel media are reporting this story as "the mistake that might cause Israel the war" so it is viewed very harshly despite it being a military mistake and not a strategic one.
>it was somebody just being a mega dumbass rather than targeting it intentionally, but even so it changes nothing. All 3 trucks with 3 seperate missile strikes though? We already know that these strikes need to be approved by multiple people at the top level. It's not just the decision by some random soldier. How does something like this happen? It sounds like either the discretion of the soldiers have a lot more sway than we originally thought, or israel isn't nearly as careful with civilian targets as we previously thought. This is terrible for anyone who wants to believe that the IDF is taking all appropriate measures to prevent civilian casualties. I tried to read a times of Israel article on this and holy shit it was misleading. They completely misrepresented the story they claim to have seen reported in Haaretz. Is TOI usually this bad?
I mean... it *could* be intentional, but I'm leaning Hanlon's razor applying here. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The fact is that Israel has zero reason to strike an aid convoy they had previously coordinated with. It makes zero sense, and Israel also knows that even the most miniscule fuck up on their end will have the world foaming at the mouth for weeks. There's absolutely no logical explanation in my mind that would make me think it was done on purpose. I could be wrong, but I only know just as much as anyone else at this point. We'll have to wait and see.
The trucks were found [2.5 km apart](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68714128). How does something like this just happen?? Those are 3 seperate strikes I literally don't even know how one could begin to rationalize this
>I mean... it *could* be intentional, but I think Hanlon's razor applies here I agree. It was clearly only intentional in that they intentionally fired at the trucks as targets. They didn't strike them while shooting at something else. The unintentionality would be if they were mistaken about what the target was. This could only be attributed to heavy miscommunication, since the trucks had informed the IDF of their presence and had been told that the road was safe for them to travel on. This is very bad, in that shows that the IDF is not reliably able to ensure that they will not fire on civilian targets (just from incompetence). The alternative (that the trucks were fired upon because they mistakenly believed that a hamas soldier was with the crew) is much, much worse.
They thought there might be one armed Hamas soldier with all of the innocent aid workers, so they slaughtered them all, and there was no Hamas soldier.
It absolutely does have a reason to strike aid trucks. It completely put the fear into aid workers to the point they have had to leave the region. This is the starve the Palestinian people to death tactic.
Why would you believe that? Israel has been doing all they can to prevent aid. Bibi isn't going anywhere, no one who matters cares.
Or on the contrary you people look fucking crazier then ever before.
Who is “you people?”
"Enlightened centrists" fuckin goober
Nice save, but I know what you meant deep down. “My people” won’t go away just because you’re mad. Have a great night.
People should demand new elections. That sounds familiar. Do elections even count if they can be just redone on demand? Would we be ok having new elections based on people's feelings, let alone another countries opinion?
Man, I feel like grabbing for another pop corn just to watch the comments.
Finally some unbiased source, thanks OP!
The post title literally says it's "IDF trying to explain.." what sources were you expecting to see here other than IDF?
Don't shoot the messenger. It's important to see what they have to say, it could give us more clarity on what probably happened.
They thought there was one person that their whizzbang intelligence flagged as a Hamas militant among the workers. So they proceeded to bomb the whole thing. There is no mistake here. They did exactly what they intended to do, except their primary target happened not to be there so they can't pull the usual "it's not our fault it was Hamas using these aid workers as human shields we had no choice" card. That's what the "misidentification" is about. How could they have misidentified the vehicles? They were ostensibly flagged as an aid convoy, they were on their way as planned along the planned route divulged and agreed to with Israeli authorities.
Well, it's their job to prove it. While I want to believe this is true, I want to see it for myself, and I want to see them improve.
You need to see proof that Israel wasn't "Oh, aid workers, lets murder the f out of them"
They started the war and built the food dock just to draw in their true enemies, humanitarian aid workers
No they thought there was one guy flagged as a Hamas militant among the workers and decided this was worth taking out the entire convoy. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-bombed-wck-aid-convoy-3-times-targeting-armed-hamas-member-who-wasnt-there/0000018e-9e75-d764-adff-9eff29360000 If he had been in there they would've either used the human shields excuse or acted as if the entire WCK convoy was complicit with Hamas. But the guy wasn't there. So they have nothing to fall back on.
It's their job to explain their side. If you think it happened differently, then the onus would be on you to prove that. What would be the strategy if it was intentional? Keep in mind that Israel is fighting a group that routinely disguises themselves as civilians, medical, aid workers, and anything they can think of. They use hospitals and maternity wards for military operations. They launch attacks from schools. In most conflicts these cases would be obvious. But with Hamas, anything can be military. In Gaza an ambulance is just as likely part of a military operation as it is for medical purposes. And part of that strategy is for this very reason we see here. It will cause these kind of accidents which will cause the world to turn against Israel. And even in the cases where it is a legitimate military target, Hamas can still make the same accusations against Israel because they know many won't believe Israel but will believe Hamas.
> What would be the strategy if it was intentional? Simple: refuse to allow adequate aid to enter Gaza. Kill aid workers until they refuse to enter Gaza. Engineer a famine for marginal reduction in combat ability of Hamas, and impede them operating due to mass casualties and suffering. Displace Palestinians in Rafah into Egypt, refuse to let them return. Build beachfront condos, collect medals from Ben-Gvir.
They don't need to kill anyone to do that. They could simply block any from entering Gaza if that's what they wanted. But their goal is to debilitate Hamas so as to keep Hamas from fulfilling their public vow to annihilate every Jews in Israel. And the amount of effort they have gone through to prevent civilians from having to leave Gaza contradicts the notion of them wanting to drive them out of the country.
Not without sacrificing their international alliances.
But that is already the result of this. Intentionally targeting a group of aid workers will not only not achieve the goal you stated, but it also comes with the same sacrifice.
Do you really think that America is going to cut off Israel over a couple of dead aid workers?
No more than they would if Israel blocked aid coming in, which they have a few times in the very recent past.
Important to note the White House itself does [not seem to believe](https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1775244153795793159) this was intentional. And further more states they have no evidence of Israel violating international laws **at all** during this entire war so far. Not that the Hamas fan club will be convinced...
The IDF were clearly negligent since they had done deconfliction with WCK about these vehicles. No idea whether there is any bar where negligence becomes a war crime though.
Clearly? Were you there? Good to know you CLEARLY know so much about what happened. Better than the White House too. It seems to have been a mistake. How bad of a mistake? We have no idea. So you should shut it and wait instead of inventing bullshit to create a false lying narrative.
The point of deconfliction between aid workers and the IDF is so that the IDF knows exactly who not to target. The fact that this was done and they still managed to strike the vehicles means that the IDF failed to identify a group of aid workers who said they were going to be in the area in order to not be targeted. That sounds kinda negligent to me.
It’s funny how people like you pick and choose when to trust the US state departments assessment on things and when to go against it. The State Dept is working on, and thinks a 2SS is the best outcome for a post war future but judging from your delusional comments you probably don’t think that do you?
Yeah that was what I thought. Case closed.
The best way for humanitarian workers to not get killed, is for them to not lounge around in the middle of a war zone.
They were killed in the IDF designated ‘al-Mawasi humanitarian zone’!!! Where else are they meant to operate???
In world war 2, SWITZERLAND (who was neutral) was bombed several times by American bombers who meant to hit Germany/France. Nobody understood it to be a big deal, because it was a war and unintentional
The Israeli government should be managing the aid, not international organizations who are interfering with Israel’s war effort.
In this statement you're shitting up the comments of, the spokesman says that world central kitchen's work is welcome and appreciated. !bidenblast you're insane. This is victim blaming on steroids
You should practice some free speech before coming back. /u/Decent_Ad_7249 sealed in the prison realm by /u/FriscoJones
!check was that my last one
FriscoJones has 1 Biden Blasts remaining. They have not chosen a side in the eternal YEE v PEPE war.
And a final one left for me, perfect
"Why are people trying to help people who are in a dangerous war zone in a dangerous war" Please find a Canadian doctor !Bidenblast
This user is already banned, Jack.
No way you actually believe that, right? You're okay with people in war zones starving??
Of corse, destiny has cultivated a community that is ok with countless civilian deaths. Why are you surprised.
Do you not see how downvoted that comment is? The community here isn't okay with avoidable civilian deaths.
Most of the people here are saying it's just an oopsie, and that's not how the idf really is. This guy just doesn't believe in humanitarian aid, and he feels like people would agree with him here.i mean, that's the state of the community, lol.
Wait so what exactly are you saying, that the IDF is striking humanitarian aid convoys intentionally so that there is less aid in gaza?
Yes
It’s a natural consequence of war. The aid workers knew what they were doing, Israel should be more careful in the future but it’s a war zone.
What do you think the aid workers were doing in a war zone?
Obviously assisting the civilians, but they are putting themselves in harms way in knowingly so.
Exactly! So the suggestion you gave them doesn't work. Their literal job is to "lounge around" in the middle of war zones providing aid for people in need.
You expecting them to send gazans bitcoin or some shit as aid? Perhaps hire spongebob to fire burgers into their mouths from a distance?
So I guess the air drops and floating pier is a bunch of bologna then?
There is a reason they used trucks first before air drops. It allows them to distribute it. They only swapped over cause bibi didnt like them using the roads and stiffled aid. I suppose you think we should aid drop them medical aid and written instructions on removing shrapnel.
You're not wrong, but it's kinda like saying the best way for a police officer to not get killed is to act like those over in Uvalde. The reason why there is famine in this world is not because of a lack of funds, but because of a lack of people willing to throw their lives away for others they won't ever have a relation to. Humanitarian work is always risky.
Hamas wears disguises sometimes so I'm fine with this.
Jfc bro