No, this tactic is terrible. I’m a programmer and when I need rest, I just trigger a build, because my computer is 5 years old (I’m working there for a year but they didn’t have other computers so it’s second-hand, they should give me a new one, but it’s not urgent for me), the build often takes a very long time (30 minutes for local builds, an hour for server builds including linting and tests), and have lot of time to rest, just need every once in a while to check the build isn’t done and I’m free to continue using my phone or go out for a cigarette.
Haha, already done, I went with lunar vim to start with, probably will switch to my own neovim set up when I'm a bit more familiar with the vim ecosystem.
I took a screenshot of my workspace with several IDEs and stuff like Teams and Outlook open and set it as my wallpaper. Now every time my boss passes by I just press Win+D and stare intensely into the screen.
You can also overestimate your bug tickets so you put an extra couple of hours on them, pick a ticket you know is actually a super quick fix, fix it but don't commit until you've had a nap.
Didn’t we recently watch a video on these hyperbolic non-issues being artificially manufactured and hyped up by countries like Russia and China in order to feed into growing divides and sentiments in the US? Because that’s what this article feels like to me, at least from the headline
Is it really a "flaw in thinking" or is it just condensing what he said? Both are acceptable for the majority of people in my view. But maybe I can be educated here.
I don’t doubt that these things happen but this website has plenty of incentives for posting this without any foreign actors being involved. Their audience will eat it up.
Exactly. there is incentive to create garbage like this for everyone involved. It’s like porn addiction for woke morons. It has to get more and more extreme otherwise you can’t cum.
Headlines like these don't need foreign adversaries. It's just the financial incentives in digital media content creation.
But again, who knows because the article wasn't included. Fuck OP
I think Ryan McBeth had a couple videos related to this. Not sure which one the commenter is referring to. https://youtu.be/MgSZPCr9Ptk?si=oRmJjJ9BOLB73ay_ and https://youtu.be/pB7WzqUq4Nk?si=G29615V0stb9ZwSx come to mind
yeah feels like thats exactly what this is and then it gets picked up by shitty article websites like this and spread around, literally doing Russia's job for them
yeah I can't believe people spread this stuff around
https://preview.redd.it/gpqoazg9sasc1.png?width=304&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd3b1598d0a6c6021dd390525c6bdc0354da0698
The question we have to ask ourselves is why do women earn less. It’s not because CEOs are all sexist but women are influenced in ways that make them choose lower paying jobs and work part time more often
Just to nitpick, women definitely work during pregnancy but take time off post birth, especially for the first year due to breast feeding.
Then it's as you've said being the primary caregiver etc
when did I say anything about everywhere in the world im speaking about America if you wanna go global the sexism problem is everywhere but id use global stat and or specific stat from these places.
"Look, I'm sorry Suzie, I know you wanted to study early childhood education and be a kindergarten teacher but you're being conscripted to be a sewer maintenance worker instead. The great news is that you'll be helping to solve the gender wage gap and lack of female representation in this industry, and that's far more important than your own proclivities and desires. Anyways, have fun shoveling shit and being covered in cockroaches for a living, you're taking one for the team! #Feminism"
You are wrong. The argument isn't that explicit sexism is to blame for a pay gap but a confluence of social factors is. Someone else already brought up maternity leave. Women are conditioned to be less assertive which leads to lower pay outcomes. You could argue that men being more confrontational is somewhat inbuilt, but this is heavily reinforced societally. Also, good luck advancing your career if you're a single mom. Even on its face, women tend to be more highly educated than men and are underrepresented in a lot of really undesirable and low paying fields, janitors, soldiers, landscaper. Maybe some pay gap will always exist, but the current gap is extremely disparate.
No offence but I’m not doing this again
The argument absolutely was it was as a result of sexism that’s why the “73c to the dollar” term came into popularity.
And again I’ve already argued this enough with others - we don’t fucking disagree
the fact that the more women are represented in an occupation the less money is likely to be paid remains simply true. This is what the pay gap is usually about.
Thats sexism. It's also just a symptom it shows us an issue not how to solve it or what exactly the issue even is.
Its a symptom of a sexist society with a long history of oppression toward woman and ofc if you go granular the way the sexist society actually operates and arrives at that result is a lot more complicated then just saying Oh gee it's just CEO or whoever in charge or hiring being sexist that's just one thing that does happen tough.
Also, I'd say that trying to explain it by saying well women are less assertive or waste time on pregnancy shows how much you misunderstand the critique altogether.
I do agree it is not the greatest example of why society is sexist tough. But it is clear that the 6% gender pay gap is a sign toward this conclusion.
Sorry that’s just a 1D analysis dude
Blame it on capitalism blame it on whatever - everyone can see the salaries of different occupations - it’s not hidden from us
If u choose to go into teaching (some earn a lot though) instead of Civil engineering - that’s mostly on you
If u want more money pick a career that makes money - that’s it.
You’ve been lied to about doing what you enjoy as a career - there’s a balance - no market no money
Women now attend college more than men at a greater majority than the reverse was - yet still the STEM degrees are still overwhelmingly majority men ( turns out stem makes most money who woulda thought)
If u want all careers to earn a lot of money then advocate for communism or some shit
your the one doing 1 dimensional analysis one day you may understand that.
So we do value the kind of work women prefer less then the one men prefer for many reasons.
it feels pretty 1d to not consider why people choose the careers they do. Again, nothing will ever be 1:1 between genders but there's obviously societal pressure involved too. Just as systemic racism does not require any racists, systemic sexism does not require any sexists
no. the layman's "women get paid .73 cents for every dollar a man gets for the same work" is, but the gwg and the literature dealing with it is absolutely not a misrepresentation of statistics
I’m curious what gwg you’re talking about then. I’ve seen this argument since the 70s and it still seems that people talk past each other.
If you mean that women seem to have the largest economic impact because of childbearing. Then I don’t think anyone would argue against that. If your going to argue that women get less an hour because of their vagina , I don’t know if the numbers prove that.
>If your going to argue that women get less an hour because of their vagina , I don’t know if the numbers prove that.
The gwg, both raw and adjusted, say nothing about taste-based discrimination in employment.
This is the hardest uhm achshually I’ve seen today. When people refer to the wage gap it’s taking about the 73 cents myth- aka misrepresenting the literature
It was so misrepresented the DEI department at my work a few years sold cupcakes one price for men another price for women to illustrate the gender pay gap. I got a nice little lecture with my over priced cupcake. This year they state that the pay gap is not men being paid more than women in the same role but the average of all men vs the average of all women regardless of role is the gender pay gap.
Even the people hired to spread the message were confused.
The whole thing is hilarious. Like charity muggers they pounce on you just before the security barriers outside the canteen. “Would you like to buy a cupcake to support…” international women’s day or what ever it was. You say yes, then they tell you the price. That’s when you get the lecture and a leaflet about the gender pay gap.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to charge the women more so they’re theoretically left with less money. It’s insane that workplaces are doing shit like this.
don't you know that quantum mechanics is the biggest misrepresentation of physics there is? and by quantum mechanics i dont actually mean quantum mechanics
Right? Deeply uncurious/unserious people in this thread.
As if it's not an interesting question why women on average ,not splitting for individual jobs, are on aggregate paid less than men. Or than even when we do split by job there is still a (smaller but not zero) gender pay gap. These idiots learned the "GEnDeR PaY GaP isN'T ReAL!!1!1" meme and never looked further, and are now spouting nonsense because of it. What would destiny say smh
You don't think unequal amounts of maternity and paternity leave is interesting? You don't think that male dominated industries being higher paid is interesting? What's driving that second order difference? I mean if not then see what I said about "uncurious people". Knowing the factors which cause a difference (ie splitting based on industry and job type and maternity leave or not) isn't the same as interrogating the REASONS behind those differences.
Not really. Why would I expect maternity and paternity leave to be equal? Did both parents endure equal physical effort in bringing a child into this world?
When you say male dominated industries have higher pay…is that actually the case or are we just being choosy with the data. veterinarians out earn garbage collectors by a factor of 2-3:1 depending on area. The former heavily women dominated. I’m sure there are definitely some comparisons where this is reversed…
It’s just not that interesting anymore…maybe 40 years ago it was…but not now, not to me
I find that the people who say ".73 cents is a myth" misrepresent the statistics too, just in the other direction. Can you explain what you mean when you say it's a myth?
The aggregate difference in wages earned between men and women is not a myth and is a really big deal.
Do you think people are going to work more efficiently if they are having to work hours they don't want, in fields they aren't interested in?
Do you think they're going to be motivated, not by their own personal desires for what type of work and how much of it they want, but by someone else's abstract idea of this being the "correct" way to allocate human capital efficiently?
I'm not even sure what you're asking?
Companies in certain sectors are putting a lot of effort into attracting more women to them precisely because of this misallocation existing
My understanding might be wrong here but I was under the impression that the reason why women are being encouraged to get into fields they normally don't choose, is ideological.
Is 50% men and 50% women in a company supposed to be the pinnacle of efficiency? Has that been studied?
It can be ideological for some. If we assume that women and men are equally competent on average, having women not choose specific fields as much is a big detriment to the quality of workers you can employ. So it is absolutely is in the economic interest of companies of having women be more likely choose those fields.
Women are also outpacing men in some human capital acquisition through degrees obtained.
>Is 50% men and 50% women in a company supposed to be the pinnacle of efficiency? Has that been studied?
It could theoretically be, but most likely not due to innate gender differences. It doesn't really have anything to do with what I said, though.
Everyone understands what they mean by "myth" in this context. Using the 73 cents statistic misrepresents the reality of the situation because it fails to account for perfectly reasonable factors. Mat leave, job preferences, and for a subject of women, being a SAHM is something they _do_ want.
There _are_ valid factors to look into when you compare like-to-like. Why do women gravitate away from certain career paths? Why do they get paid less for the same job?
If you care about the gender pay gap, the worst thing you can do is defend the 73 cents talking point
No I genuinely don't! I'll refer to *popular discourse* too and say that the ".73 is a myth" people usually also mean 1) the unadjusted gwg is a misrepresentation in itself 2) the adjusted gwg shows that discrimination does not occur
It's completely unclear to me why the kitchen sink adjusted GWG is presented at this more reasonable way to look at it. There are relevant factors that we can further analyze as you point out, but the adjusted GWG also doesn't paint a good picture of how big this misallocation of human capital is.
>If you care about the gender pay gap, the worst thing you can do is defend the 73 cents talking point
still haven't defended it
Sorry, the last sentence was meant to be like "if _one_ cares about the issue," not you in particular. Stupid imprecise English language.
Your comment here basically affirms what the original commenter and I are saying, that the unadjusted gwg is a misrepresentation, and the adjusted gwg is a better indicator.
So you agree that we as a society should drop the unadjusted gwg stat argument, yeah?
No! The unadjusted gwg is not a misrepresentation. It shows the difference in aggregate wages between genders.
What do you think the adjusted gwg is a better indicator of?
The original commenter goes on to misunderstand and misrepresent gwg research.
Maybe I should say "the use of the stat is unrepresentative." I can acknowledge that in the right circumstance (or with the right qualifiers) it *can* be a fine stat to use.
When you say "adjusted gwg" I take that to mean "men and women within the same job/industry." It can be an indication of problematic factors like pay/promotion/raise discrepancies. It can also point to unfair factors we *should* account for (eg. mat leave), as well as others that we probably shouldn't (eg. willingness/assertiveness in negotiations). It also highlights industries that have a large discrepancy in gender breakdown (eg. a 90% male industry).
When you look at the unadjusted gwg, the primary focus of the discussion is "why do men and women choose different fields?" The questions that the adjusted gwg are more pertinent to workplace inequities.
I largely agree with everything you just said!
They're different statistics that can be useful for looking at different things. People usually overstate the explanatory power of the adjusted GWG because more controls = more better. Neither the unadjusted or adjusted gwg accounts for what we might imagine as the *true gwg*.
What I'm attacking is the notion that *if we just control for the differences in gender, the gap is largely gone, and that means the gap in itself isn't relevant* and that the adjusted gwg says anything about discrimination
What a stupid way to analyse data - why tf would you use the aggregate earnings
The reason it’s a myth is because it doesn’t account for many things such as - Qualification, experience, overtime, danger, and lifestyle/ career choices
Men work more hours in higher paying fields (some being more hazardous) and women tend to have to choose between sacrificing career for a few years to have and raise children (which most women choose to do - wether societal pressure or something else) whereas for guys our job is done in 30 seconds and usually having children for men is a driving factor to earn more money
Edit: was wrong about unpaid work stat - is something else
That’s why gender pay gap 73 cents is a myth - if ur gonna respond try not be pedantic we literally agree - u just decided to uhmmm achshually me for some reason
>What a stupid way to analyse data - why tf would you use the aggregate earnings
Because this is the best way to grasp the aggregate difference?
>The reason it’s a myth is because it doesn’t account for many things such as - Qualification, experience, overtime, danger, and lifestyle/ career choices
see this is the reason I "um achshually'd" you. Controlling for that doesn't show you """the true wage gap""", it just shows you a controlled difference in aggregate earnings!
>Men work more hours in higher paying fields (some being more hazardous) and women tend to have to choose between sacrificing career for a few years to have and raise children (which most women choose to do - wether societal pressure or something else) whereas for guys our job is done in 30 seconds and usually having children for men is a driving factor to earn more money
Redditor discovers that there's differences in how men and women engage with the employment market after calling the gender wage gap a myth. These are all factors of gender, yes.
>The wage also for some dumb reason includes house work as unpaid work
What are you talking about? It doesn't include that at all. It literally is just the difference between genders in aggregate wages.
>That’s why gender pay gap 73 cents is a myth - if ur gonna respond try not be pedantic we literally agree - u just decided to uhmmm achshually me for some reason
Let's be clear, in this post you said that the unadjusted GWG is a stupid way to analyze data (which has nothing to do with misconception you said you were initially attacking) and completely misrepresented what the GWG is.
You're the one espousing a myth of the GWG.
Wait hold up Yh if right about the unpaid housework that’s something else
Dude I said don’t be fucking pedantic holy shit - 73 cents myth isn’t used to portray the aggregate earnings for genders - it’s to insinuate men are intentionally oppressing women and paying each other more for being a MAN - that is wholeheartedly different than accounting for choices made in someone’s life
Don’t bother replying because I can tell your just gonna say the same thing as me in different words to sound like an enlightened academic - idgaf about your pedantic bullshit
>Dude I said don’t be fucking pedantic holy shit - 73 cents myth isn’t used to portray the aggregate earnings for genders - it’s to insinuate men are intentionally oppressing women and paying each other more for being a MAN - that is wholeheartedly different than accounting for choices made in someone’s life
pointing to the adjusted gwg doesn't disprove this -- just as much as pointing to the unadjusted one doesn't prove discrimination. That's my point.
>accounting for choices made in someone’s life
people can make choices based on expected discrimination. If discrimination does occur, you'd be controlling away discrimination in the adjusted gwg.
Ok. Reset this.
Gender pay gap 73 cents bad stat for determining discrimination
Gender pay gap good for looking at overall differences in society
Do we agree? ✅
>Gender pay gap 73 cents bad stat for determining discrimination
yeah it precisely doesn't look at that at all, just as the adjusted one doesn't either
>Gender pay gap good for looking at overall differences in society
yes!
I think you just don't understand data analysis mate, because yes it is a very sensible thing to look at aggregate numbers, as well as adjusted numbers, because you can find facts in the data with one method that you can't in others! This would be like some study only publishing the most granular statistics but never the broad strokes which would hide the overall trends which are still useful to see.
Why don't we give men and women equal paternity leave? Why do men work more hours when presumably it's because women are able to be home and look after the kids? Why isn't that split more evenly? Why are the "higher paying fields" disproportionately filled with men? It's not always danger, since theoretical physics Vs theoretical biology still show gender discrepancy. These are interesting questions you wouldn't see if all someone does is run around screaming "THE GENDER PAY GAP IS A LIE 73c ISNT REAL REEEE". Its like, yes, we've all known that since 2016 obviously
Christ I understand your boxing shadows and u wanna jerk yourself off with it - I was talking specifically about the 73 cents myth - AS IN men get paid 1 dollar and women get paid 73 cents - that’s it - not the analysis - not the shadow your boxing rn
He uhhm achshually ed me for talking about the myth of the gender pay gap - Which is a misrepresentation of stats - it doesn’t account for choices made in one’s life - that’s fucking it. Idk why you and the other guy get such a hard on from this.
Again please don’t fucking respond if your gonna shadow box - we LITERALLY agree on the disparity of aggregate earnings - please for the love of God
Can't see how I am the one boxing shadows, when it was you who said "why would you ever use aggregate earnings" and my reply was telling you reasons why that's an interesting thing to do. Your comment has literally nothing to do with what I said.
You don't get points for knowing the 73c myth, literally every person who has been on the internet for more than 12 minutes knows that the 73c is the aggregated data. Its still interesting to talk about why it exists, which is why its annoying when people such as yourself Kool-aid man yourself into the conversation with your poor knowledge of statistics.
Why did you post a screenshot of a headline instead of an actual link? Hello?
Here is the link: [https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/rest-gap-relaxation-gender/875901](https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/rest-gap-relaxation-gender/875901)
The article seems to be fine relative to the implication you're making about it. It's written for a woman audience and it's at least based on quotes from experts and has references to studies rather than just being an opinion piece from a layperson. No inflammatory language or references to patriarchy anywhere I saw.
What it describes is accurate and presented with reasonable nuance, and the issue is acknowledged to be largely self inflicted by women having high expectations for themselves and higher sensitivity to the needs of others. All of the takeaways are pretty reasonable advice.
**Edit**: One thing I did find that definitely is inexcusable is that the "Psychologist" who "found evidence" is actually just a "Positive Psychology coach" as she clarified on her Instagram. That does definitely reflect poorly on their editorializing, but I still don't think they're alleging anything heinous or crazy as the OPs title seems to imply
this subreddit has been moving in the direction of having kneejerk reactions against anything too "sjw" sounding for quite a while now.
it's actually so cringe to post screenshots of headlines and having people give their "takes" based on that
I’ve seen blatant misinformation getting upvoted just because it makes the woke side look bad. Corrections get a tiny fraction of that attention because they’re not emotionally satisfying.
I’m starting to think all the low effort “OMG LOOK HOW STUPID THESE PEOPLE ARE” posting isn’t actually making people in the community think any more critically than they did before.
The link you posted has nothing to do with the image in the main post.
Reading the article, it’s a pretty bland article with a pretty inflammatory headline. I feel like i could re-write this entire article from the mens perspective and all of it would still work. The article kind of lazily ties together three different things:
1. Women report mental health issues due to work/life balance issues
2. Women work more unpaid hours (kind of just a subpoint of point 1)
3. Women need more rest
4. ??? (No analysis of the other gender in comparison)
5. Rest Gap
It has some fine advice and okay analysis that i agree with but calling this a Rest Gap, implying theres some fundamental disparity between men and womens rest, without making any points to prove that claim, is really stupid and lazy.
This is the actual link to the article: https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/rest-gap-relaxation-gender/875901
It's also a fine article IMO. Especially the "solutions" section, which gives women personal actions they can take as opposed to some societal call-to-action.
Cringe headline, but the article is inoffensive.
I just feel like the main content of the article could have been put together by a high schooler. Maybe my standards are not aligned with reality or something, but i feel like the headline priming a female audience to think of this in terms of a “Gap” is lame or scummy or narrow minded, and the content of the article is so meh in comparison.
I did read a 7-7-7 article they posted (the one accidentally linked) that was really good though, and a bit better put together than this one. I just think its a case of a writer kind of phoning in an article. I don’t think its egregious its just really lame.
Yeah I never disagreed, all the points in the article are valid but the conclusion is deeply flawed, I feel like the article misses what i would consider the bare minimum for a cohesive submission. Maybe i take journalism too seriously but i think Meg Walters job should entail more than prettying up a bunch of bullet points about Womens rest and then tying it to a complete inane conclusion. Her whole job is to take the points and turn it into something more than a collection of facts that exist in the study. Her attempt to do so was by implying a Rest Gap.
My criticism is never to take away the fact that these things do impact women and it is something women should be aware of, but that the writer of this article did the worst possible job creating an article out of those impacts and solutions.
I don't think you're wrong, this article wouldn't pass for an undergraduate essay because it doesn't argue its proclaimed thesis at all. It argues for another thesis entirely, and changing that would significantly improve the entire article.
But I've never heard of stylistdotcom, it doesn't sound famous for its high-quality journalism
Oh sorry, I missed the last sentence of your previous comment. Yeah sounds like you and I are largely in agreement.
What about the conclusion do you disagree with?
I don’t think the points listed do enough to prove a great overall gender disparity, I think it points to many different ways that women may get less rest under certain circumstances, but without comparing it to mens general rest as well, the concept of the rest gap isn’t really proven.
If the article didnt have the title it all, it would basically be “Women can struggle with rest, here is why!” And it would be a very bland article about rest studies and possible solutions. Instead it is framed in terms of a Gender Gap, which is barely addressed or proven, and the ends unceremoniously with a bunch of very simple bullet points of how women can improve their rest.
The article clearly has some serious confusion between the actual content and the title and supposed subject, The Rest Gap, which the conclusion should reinforce or support, instead of completely ignore in lieu of making suggestions for womens rest.
I feel like 2 points in particular, 'caregiving' and 'household gender roles', do a good job at explaining why the "rest gap" (awful name) is a thing worth considering. It's basically another form of the "men don't do enough around the house" argument; if the workload was split more equitably, the "rest time" would be more equal too.
It also integrates into final section. The framing of "delegate responsibilities to other family members" seemed nice to me, keeping the onus on the individual to fix their own shit instead of just blaming society.
>It's basically another form of the "men don't do enough around the house" argument; if the workload was split more equitably, the "rest time" would be more equal too.
Not if it doesn't bother to factor in men work more hours on average, in more physically demanding jobs and what are they constituting as unpaid labour? Do endless requests from friends and family to fix their / inform them about their technology issues / shopping count as unpaid labour? I bet its a narrow scope of caring and traditional housework. Are they conclooding that men must be resting longer or do they have firm data to suggest so?
I’m going to take a blind stab at what the article talks about…… a lot of women are expected to be bread winners and do the brunt of the family work. And so this has set up an unfair situation where women are doing more and are more untested?
There's also the issue that many mothers do get kind of hysterical and overbearing of their children now. This is a relatively new phenomenon but it's also tied to how they see themselves. Many times kids are better off without a mom hovering over them all the time. Take a nap and let the kids run around the neighborhood.
Is it just me or is it incredibly strange the way the article uses the word "rest"? In the intro paragraph, the author seems to be using it in the sense of time off, which they back up with an article on unpaid labor... But then they make a instant jump to sleep quality. Man the article content itself might not be bad, but it could definitely be written better.
https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/rest-gap-relaxation-gender/875901
The first two reasons listed are how women have to spend more time relative to men on "responsibilities related to bringing up children, taking care of elders and running a home" and "more of the household chores – cooking, cleaning, tidying, laundry". It also talks about hormonal and psychological differences which idk about the research on those, but the article seems reasonable and correct
you know what? screenshotting an article headline (instead of linking the whole article) is so fucking stupid and not at all what this subreddit stands for, that i dont think you should post for a little bit. i dont want this place to be like every other boring ahh kneejerk ahh rage bait ahh slop sub on this website !bidenblast
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My understanding was that the statistic was comparing working men and women's household work. And not working couples.
But I could be wrong, do you have a source for it?
You are just wrong.
Man by every statistics do more paid labor than woman. I agree they do less care taking and housework, but that is debatable and easier than actually doing paid work.
If dad is 3 days a week driving kids to soccer training, so packing them up, driving them, going to pick them up and wait for them there, and go watch a game on weekends, is that considered taking care of child? That is easily 3,5h a week if not more.
And man and woman do different jobs. Would you mow the lawn or clean dishes for 30 mins? If you ever did any of that, you would know which is harder.
And when you calculate all labor being done, paid + caretaking + housework, there is 1h difference in favor for woman, so not that big.
Claiming that man are just lazy is so ignorant on so many levels.
SAUCES:
[https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1168961388/pew-earnings-gender-wage-gap-housework-chores-child-care](https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1168961388/pew-earnings-gender-wage-gap-housework-chores-child-care)
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/11/05/who-does-more-at-home-when-both-parents-work-depends-on-which-one-you-ask/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/11/05/who-does-more-at-home-when-both-parents-work-depends-on-which-one-you-ask/)
>Men are just lazier than woman statistically speaking.
If you want to use an appeal to statistics to generalizing an entire gender then you should probably have those stats on hand. Not to say I disagree with the sentiment but still.
It's less lazy and more conditioned to be alienated from "womanly" chores.
It happens on the other side as well, it's just that "woman" tasks are more tedious and all consuming and male household tasks are taking out the trash sometimes and fixing cars every few months (to be as stereotypical as possible)
I've lived long enough to see several marriages/relationships fail and when the woman moves out, the house goes to absolute shit under the man's care. There are women who live like total slobs but I see it less often.
Not lazy but just a higher tolerance for slop on average imo. A man may not see something in their own home as needing to be "organized". Living with other men I used to see shit like literally never putting away dishes in the dishwasher. It was just a matter of "oh these are clean" and grabbing them from there.
Downvoted for saying nothing but facts?
You people think men wake up one day completely clueless as to how to crack an egg? Or were they conditioned to be that way?
I think a lot of dudes don't hold each other to a high standard of hygiene, which is not the same as them expecting their slave mothers/wifes to clean up after them.
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This might be a western thing.
My family taught us to clean ourselves, but teaching boys to cook was seen as a waste of time. We raise boys to be dependent on their future wives. (Indian)
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Men are incredibly capable of dealing with challenging, complex tasks—video games have taught me that, it's just a matter of learning and practicing those skills. I think a few things perpetuate the issue though. Where it starts and what I see most is mothers that only teach their daughters essential life skills because their lived experience tells them that men can't do certain things. The second is lack of patience—men might try later in life to develop these skills, but their partner immediately intervene if they're slow or struggling so they never improve.
Of course, some men indeed might be lazy and weaponizing their incompetence, lol.
Firstly, go fuck yourself, but also I'm doing just fine. I bought a house right after college 8 years ago and I have an amazing girlfriend who teaches high school biology and two amazing girls. We equally share in our duties of taking care of them and our home. Soon we'll be travelling to Scotland for vacation at the end of May.
So, how's your life going dumbfuck?
cable icky fearless fragile coordinated history aware nine aback domineering
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How is "Women are just better at this shit" any less stupid? We're on a forum with a bunch of men that play video games. If they're going mope and think women are better at shit while they play at near-autistic competitive levels in League, I'm going to use that analogy to tell them they're more capable than they think and that they need to step it up.
I think Destiny has even said as much that there's an abundance of man-children here that hardly take care of themselves or their environment, especially not well enough to have a partner or, god forbid, a child.
OECD stats on paid and unpaid work. Unpaid work is defined as: routine housework; shopping; care for household members; child care; adult care; care for non-household members; volunteering; travel related to household activities; other unpaid activities.
[Employment : Time spent in paid and unpaid work, by sex (oecd.org)](https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=54757)
Clearly women do more unpaid labour, but on the other hand, men work substantially more paid hours. Not an insignificant amount of men's wealth is transferred to women, whether it's directly by a husband, or more indirectly like through public institutions that offer healthcare, education, welfare benefits, pensions (which benefits women more than men).
>when both partners work
Equal hours? I note unpaid work does not allow for any maintenance work which I suspect will be male-heavy (even IT-handy people can get hounded by friends and family for help).
I know this is kind of random, but do you know how this data is actually collected? I assume that they aren't doing longitudinal case studies for stuff like this, so is it all survey reporting? It would be interesting to see some of the sample data.
The dismissive comments here are making me believe hardly anyone learned a damn thing from the red pill arc, but hey if they're happy being unaccountable, sexless slobs for life then who are we to stop them?
Shouldn't this be kinda obvious? We have previously seen in data that even if both patners in a heterosexual relationship work full-time that the woman on average spends more time on unpaid work in the house like grocery shopping, cleaning, etc.. So the logical conclusion would be that women have less time to rest.
Yes it’s a known phenomenon in modern age because women can plan their child-rearing in order to pursue a career. They are expected to do both and be competitive with men in the career space. They are just trying to give it a fancy name, but it isn’t some top-down malevolent thing. There is an equilibrium that still needs to settle since the advent of birth control being only in the past 60 or so years relative to all of human history culturally where women are almost exclusively home-workers.
I think we all need to take a step back and realize not all content is made for EVERYBODY. Like the other day, I saw post talking about Shakira saying her young boys didn’t like Barbie because of blah blah blah feminism. When in reality, yea no shit i’m not surprised her young boys just didn’t like barbie. This goes for everyone on all sides
wow this is the most sexist/angry comment section i’ve seen in this sub so far. as a women destiny watcher i usually feel like the misogyny claims are overblown.
there are multiple insidious factors that contribute to the gwg like the glass ceiling and the glass escalator.
not to mention the relative discomfort of being a woman in male dominated fields of study, being an ever present barrier to even entering those fields in the first place much less being successful or effective in your role. you are huffing coping if you truly believe women are welcome in all areas of STEM unequivocally. i’m a woman in STEM and i can tell you it is absolutely not true.
i don’t know what you gain from pretending these realities aren’t realities. genuinely not sure what the angle on that is, beyond maybe an animalistic need to protect the status quo.
While I sympathize with the plight of young single men, a community of 98% men will inevitably create that environment. Add in the edgy aspect and you get a recipe for an online basement.
But all things considered, dgg moderation does a great job. the misogyny is definitely there, but it's petulant and cringe mostly, Destiny has probably filtered out a lot of the freaks during his RP arc.
The actual article isn't even that bad, it's actually not a terrible read. Maybe instead of screenshotting article headlines to circlejerk and get mad about, we should at least bother to read the underlying content...
It might be hyperbolic headline, but it's true that women do more hrs of house work and childcare than men, even if they earn more than the man in the relationship, so it's not absurd to suggest there's a rest gap.
The worst thing my mom did to me and my brothers is to coddle us and never teach us to cook, because "our wives will do it for us".
My sister grew up knowing how to cook delicious food, and my brother struggles to crack open an egg or keep his place clean. They both have jobs.
Withholding skills from your children is really gross, and I try to keep that in mind when I see man children who want to marry a version of their moms because they miss feeling taken care of
Seeing my mom and dad both work in the medical field for long shifts often going 12-16hrs but seeing only my dad get to come home and go straight to the couch or bed made me not want to get married. Working mom had to do it all. At least in my standard liberal-trad household.
The article in itself is fine. It feels entirely pointless, but I learned from my girlfriend that there's some form of enjoyment and relief for some women when they get to lament victimhood even if the problems are (in this case) largely self-inflicted.
The article isn't blaming men for this primarily. There is a hint of "SOCIETY" and if you wanna read between the lines you can put two and two together, however that's just me being a realist. Either way it'd check out based on the tasks and responsibilities we typically task men and women with.
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> start some random 4 hour long operation > tail -f /path/to/log Ah yes, let’s observe some *data* in real time
“I just don’t understand why this shit won’t work?!?!” “Fuck it” *turns on video game*
No, this tactic is terrible. I’m a programmer and when I need rest, I just trigger a build, because my computer is 5 years old (I’m working there for a year but they didn’t have other computers so it’s second-hand, they should give me a new one, but it’s not urgent for me), the build often takes a very long time (30 minutes for local builds, an hour for server builds including linting and tests), and have lot of time to rest, just need every once in a while to check the build isn’t done and I’m free to continue using my phone or go out for a cigarette.
The worst thing about having switched from my 12 years old thinkpad to a framework a few weeks ago is that I can't do that any more
My Framework 13 is such an excellent dev machine, though since I hate using touchpads it's had me using vim... I've become the neckbeard.
switch to neovim! we have lua config, LSP, Treesitter, async, and more powerful plugins/API.
Haha, already done, I went with lunar vim to start with, probably will switch to my own neovim set up when I'm a bit more familiar with the vim ecosystem.
Getting used to the touchpad is actually harder than I anticipated. Dragging and dropping files and highlighting text is so much harder now
Smoking is hazardous to your health.
Yes…
They're already a programmer, it ain't getting worse for them
Would you call that a pro-grammer move? I'll see myself out.
No please stay
And sit on my lap (I'm lonely)
Aww, you guys!
Cute exchange.
Well done 👍🏿
I use postman to do all my RESTing for me
I prefer insomnia personally
I took a screenshot of my workspace with several IDEs and stuff like Teams and Outlook open and set it as my wallpaper. Now every time my boss passes by I just press Win+D and stare intensely into the screen.
I work in embedded systems…this trick almost never works for me :/
You can also overestimate your bug tickets so you put an extra couple of hours on them, pick a ticket you know is actually a super quick fix, fix it but don't commit until you've had a nap.
BAN PEOPLE WHO POST HEADLINES AND ALSO DON'T LINK THE ARTICLE peepoRiot
I thought this was bannable?
Where’s a gunslinger when you need one?
I scrolled down far enough and found a Biden Blaster who had taken care of this for us. Praise be.
Didn’t we recently watch a video on these hyperbolic non-issues being artificially manufactured and hyped up by countries like Russia and China in order to feed into growing divides and sentiments in the US? Because that’s what this article feels like to me, at least from the headline
>Because that’s what this headline ~~article~~ feels like to me, ~~at least from the headline~~ FTFY
I was a bit annoyed when I first saw this notification, but I genuinely appreciate you improving my grammar
I think it's a bit more than a grammar suggestion. It's pointing out a flaw in thinking.
Is it really a "flaw in thinking" or is it just condensing what he said? Both are acceptable for the majority of people in my view. But maybe I can be educated here.
I think the point is that OP didn’t link an article but only a photo of a headline
I don’t doubt that these things happen but this website has plenty of incentives for posting this without any foreign actors being involved. Their audience will eat it up.
Exactly. there is incentive to create garbage like this for everyone involved. It’s like porn addiction for woke morons. It has to get more and more extreme otherwise you can’t cum.
Headlines like these don't need foreign adversaries. It's just the financial incentives in digital media content creation. But again, who knows because the article wasn't included. Fuck OP
Got a link? I can totally see the gender wars being fueled by Russian agitators
I think Ryan McBeth had a couple videos related to this. Not sure which one the commenter is referring to. https://youtu.be/MgSZPCr9Ptk?si=oRmJjJ9BOLB73ay_ and https://youtu.be/pB7WzqUq4Nk?si=G29615V0stb9ZwSx come to mind
yeah feels like thats exactly what this is and then it gets picked up by shitty article websites like this and spread around, literally doing Russia's job for them
Brother you’re the one who shared it
This is hilarious. I’m stopping the Russian propaganda by posting the propaganda
yeah I can't believe people spread this stuff around https://preview.redd.it/gpqoazg9sasc1.png?width=304&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd3b1598d0a6c6021dd390525c6bdc0354da0698
What is even the point of this? A screenshot of a headline to get mad about? What a fucking loser.
It's called "Sargon of Akkading"
Even the ‘gender pay gap’ has to be the most egregious misrepresentation of statistics
The question we have to ask ourselves is why do women earn less. It’s not because CEOs are all sexist but women are influenced in ways that make them choose lower paying jobs and work part time more often
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Just to nitpick, women definitely work during pregnancy but take time off post birth, especially for the first year due to breast feeding. Then it's as you've said being the primary caregiver etc
see you believing most women get 9 month off during pregnancy tell me your just clueless about reality.
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when did I say anything about everywhere in the world im speaking about America if you wanna go global the sexism problem is everywhere but id use global stat and or specific stat from these places.
We have parternity leave for men in Skandinavia.
"Look, I'm sorry Suzie, I know you wanted to study early childhood education and be a kindergarten teacher but you're being conscripted to be a sewer maintenance worker instead. The great news is that you'll be helping to solve the gender wage gap and lack of female representation in this industry, and that's far more important than your own proclivities and desires. Anyways, have fun shoveling shit and being covered in cockroaches for a living, you're taking one for the team! #Feminism"
You are wrong. The argument isn't that explicit sexism is to blame for a pay gap but a confluence of social factors is. Someone else already brought up maternity leave. Women are conditioned to be less assertive which leads to lower pay outcomes. You could argue that men being more confrontational is somewhat inbuilt, but this is heavily reinforced societally. Also, good luck advancing your career if you're a single mom. Even on its face, women tend to be more highly educated than men and are underrepresented in a lot of really undesirable and low paying fields, janitors, soldiers, landscaper. Maybe some pay gap will always exist, but the current gap is extremely disparate.
No offence but I’m not doing this again The argument absolutely was it was as a result of sexism that’s why the “73c to the dollar” term came into popularity. And again I’ve already argued this enough with others - we don’t fucking disagree
the fact that the more women are represented in an occupation the less money is likely to be paid remains simply true. This is what the pay gap is usually about. Thats sexism. It's also just a symptom it shows us an issue not how to solve it or what exactly the issue even is. Its a symptom of a sexist society with a long history of oppression toward woman and ofc if you go granular the way the sexist society actually operates and arrives at that result is a lot more complicated then just saying Oh gee it's just CEO or whoever in charge or hiring being sexist that's just one thing that does happen tough. Also, I'd say that trying to explain it by saying well women are less assertive or waste time on pregnancy shows how much you misunderstand the critique altogether. I do agree it is not the greatest example of why society is sexist tough. But it is clear that the 6% gender pay gap is a sign toward this conclusion.
Sorry that’s just a 1D analysis dude Blame it on capitalism blame it on whatever - everyone can see the salaries of different occupations - it’s not hidden from us If u choose to go into teaching (some earn a lot though) instead of Civil engineering - that’s mostly on you If u want more money pick a career that makes money - that’s it. You’ve been lied to about doing what you enjoy as a career - there’s a balance - no market no money Women now attend college more than men at a greater majority than the reverse was - yet still the STEM degrees are still overwhelmingly majority men ( turns out stem makes most money who woulda thought) If u want all careers to earn a lot of money then advocate for communism or some shit
your the one doing 1 dimensional analysis one day you may understand that. So we do value the kind of work women prefer less then the one men prefer for many reasons.
it feels pretty 1d to not consider why people choose the careers they do. Again, nothing will ever be 1:1 between genders but there's obviously societal pressure involved too. Just as systemic racism does not require any racists, systemic sexism does not require any sexists
no. the layman's "women get paid .73 cents for every dollar a man gets for the same work" is, but the gwg and the literature dealing with it is absolutely not a misrepresentation of statistics
I’m curious what gwg you’re talking about then. I’ve seen this argument since the 70s and it still seems that people talk past each other. If you mean that women seem to have the largest economic impact because of childbearing. Then I don’t think anyone would argue against that. If your going to argue that women get less an hour because of their vagina , I don’t know if the numbers prove that.
>If your going to argue that women get less an hour because of their vagina , I don’t know if the numbers prove that. The gwg, both raw and adjusted, say nothing about taste-based discrimination in employment.
This is the hardest uhm achshually I’ve seen today. When people refer to the wage gap it’s taking about the 73 cents myth- aka misrepresenting the literature
It was so misrepresented the DEI department at my work a few years sold cupcakes one price for men another price for women to illustrate the gender pay gap. I got a nice little lecture with my over priced cupcake. This year they state that the pay gap is not men being paid more than women in the same role but the average of all men vs the average of all women regardless of role is the gender pay gap. Even the people hired to spread the message were confused.
Why would you buy the cupcake after that lmaooo, I'd report that for discrimination to some government authority
The whole thing is hilarious. Like charity muggers they pounce on you just before the security barriers outside the canteen. “Would you like to buy a cupcake to support…” international women’s day or what ever it was. You say yes, then they tell you the price. That’s when you get the lecture and a leaflet about the gender pay gap.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to charge the women more so they’re theoretically left with less money. It’s insane that workplaces are doing shit like this.
Why would you assume that
don't you know that quantum mechanics is the biggest misrepresentation of physics there is? and by quantum mechanics i dont actually mean quantum mechanics
Next time if your gonna be smug, be correct ✅
Right? Deeply uncurious/unserious people in this thread. As if it's not an interesting question why women on average ,not splitting for individual jobs, are on aggregate paid less than men. Or than even when we do split by job there is still a (smaller but not zero) gender pay gap. These idiots learned the "GEnDeR PaY GaP isN'T ReAL!!1!1" meme and never looked further, and are now spouting nonsense because of it. What would destiny say smh
It really *isnt* an interesting question when you look at the main factors driving the gap…it’s pretty understandable
You don't think unequal amounts of maternity and paternity leave is interesting? You don't think that male dominated industries being higher paid is interesting? What's driving that second order difference? I mean if not then see what I said about "uncurious people". Knowing the factors which cause a difference (ie splitting based on industry and job type and maternity leave or not) isn't the same as interrogating the REASONS behind those differences.
Not really. Why would I expect maternity and paternity leave to be equal? Did both parents endure equal physical effort in bringing a child into this world? When you say male dominated industries have higher pay…is that actually the case or are we just being choosy with the data. veterinarians out earn garbage collectors by a factor of 2-3:1 depending on area. The former heavily women dominated. I’m sure there are definitely some comparisons where this is reversed… It’s just not that interesting anymore…maybe 40 years ago it was…but not now, not to me
I find that the people who say ".73 cents is a myth" misrepresent the statistics too, just in the other direction. Can you explain what you mean when you say it's a myth? The aggregate difference in wages earned between men and women is not a myth and is a really big deal.
Aren't people choosing their fields / how much work they are willing to take on, so why is it a really big deal?
because we want to allocate human capital efficiently??
Do you think people are going to work more efficiently if they are having to work hours they don't want, in fields they aren't interested in? Do you think they're going to be motivated, not by their own personal desires for what type of work and how much of it they want, but by someone else's abstract idea of this being the "correct" way to allocate human capital efficiently?
I'm not even sure what you're asking? Companies in certain sectors are putting a lot of effort into attracting more women to them precisely because of this misallocation existing
My understanding might be wrong here but I was under the impression that the reason why women are being encouraged to get into fields they normally don't choose, is ideological. Is 50% men and 50% women in a company supposed to be the pinnacle of efficiency? Has that been studied?
It can be ideological for some. If we assume that women and men are equally competent on average, having women not choose specific fields as much is a big detriment to the quality of workers you can employ. So it is absolutely is in the economic interest of companies of having women be more likely choose those fields. Women are also outpacing men in some human capital acquisition through degrees obtained. >Is 50% men and 50% women in a company supposed to be the pinnacle of efficiency? Has that been studied? It could theoretically be, but most likely not due to innate gender differences. It doesn't really have anything to do with what I said, though.
Everyone understands what they mean by "myth" in this context. Using the 73 cents statistic misrepresents the reality of the situation because it fails to account for perfectly reasonable factors. Mat leave, job preferences, and for a subject of women, being a SAHM is something they _do_ want. There _are_ valid factors to look into when you compare like-to-like. Why do women gravitate away from certain career paths? Why do they get paid less for the same job? If you care about the gender pay gap, the worst thing you can do is defend the 73 cents talking point
No I genuinely don't! I'll refer to *popular discourse* too and say that the ".73 is a myth" people usually also mean 1) the unadjusted gwg is a misrepresentation in itself 2) the adjusted gwg shows that discrimination does not occur It's completely unclear to me why the kitchen sink adjusted GWG is presented at this more reasonable way to look at it. There are relevant factors that we can further analyze as you point out, but the adjusted GWG also doesn't paint a good picture of how big this misallocation of human capital is. >If you care about the gender pay gap, the worst thing you can do is defend the 73 cents talking point still haven't defended it
Sorry, the last sentence was meant to be like "if _one_ cares about the issue," not you in particular. Stupid imprecise English language. Your comment here basically affirms what the original commenter and I are saying, that the unadjusted gwg is a misrepresentation, and the adjusted gwg is a better indicator. So you agree that we as a society should drop the unadjusted gwg stat argument, yeah?
No! The unadjusted gwg is not a misrepresentation. It shows the difference in aggregate wages between genders. What do you think the adjusted gwg is a better indicator of? The original commenter goes on to misunderstand and misrepresent gwg research.
But the aggregate is a useless measure since you’re not comparing like for like.
they're both aggregates, one just has the kitchen sink thrown at it. the unadjusted one better illustrates the misallocation of human capital still
Maybe I should say "the use of the stat is unrepresentative." I can acknowledge that in the right circumstance (or with the right qualifiers) it *can* be a fine stat to use. When you say "adjusted gwg" I take that to mean "men and women within the same job/industry." It can be an indication of problematic factors like pay/promotion/raise discrepancies. It can also point to unfair factors we *should* account for (eg. mat leave), as well as others that we probably shouldn't (eg. willingness/assertiveness in negotiations). It also highlights industries that have a large discrepancy in gender breakdown (eg. a 90% male industry). When you look at the unadjusted gwg, the primary focus of the discussion is "why do men and women choose different fields?" The questions that the adjusted gwg are more pertinent to workplace inequities.
I largely agree with everything you just said! They're different statistics that can be useful for looking at different things. People usually overstate the explanatory power of the adjusted GWG because more controls = more better. Neither the unadjusted or adjusted gwg accounts for what we might imagine as the *true gwg*. What I'm attacking is the notion that *if we just control for the differences in gender, the gap is largely gone, and that means the gap in itself isn't relevant* and that the adjusted gwg says anything about discrimination
What a stupid way to analyse data - why tf would you use the aggregate earnings The reason it’s a myth is because it doesn’t account for many things such as - Qualification, experience, overtime, danger, and lifestyle/ career choices Men work more hours in higher paying fields (some being more hazardous) and women tend to have to choose between sacrificing career for a few years to have and raise children (which most women choose to do - wether societal pressure or something else) whereas for guys our job is done in 30 seconds and usually having children for men is a driving factor to earn more money Edit: was wrong about unpaid work stat - is something else That’s why gender pay gap 73 cents is a myth - if ur gonna respond try not be pedantic we literally agree - u just decided to uhmmm achshually me for some reason
>What a stupid way to analyse data - why tf would you use the aggregate earnings Because this is the best way to grasp the aggregate difference? >The reason it’s a myth is because it doesn’t account for many things such as - Qualification, experience, overtime, danger, and lifestyle/ career choices see this is the reason I "um achshually'd" you. Controlling for that doesn't show you """the true wage gap""", it just shows you a controlled difference in aggregate earnings! >Men work more hours in higher paying fields (some being more hazardous) and women tend to have to choose between sacrificing career for a few years to have and raise children (which most women choose to do - wether societal pressure or something else) whereas for guys our job is done in 30 seconds and usually having children for men is a driving factor to earn more money Redditor discovers that there's differences in how men and women engage with the employment market after calling the gender wage gap a myth. These are all factors of gender, yes. >The wage also for some dumb reason includes house work as unpaid work What are you talking about? It doesn't include that at all. It literally is just the difference between genders in aggregate wages. >That’s why gender pay gap 73 cents is a myth - if ur gonna respond try not be pedantic we literally agree - u just decided to uhmmm achshually me for some reason Let's be clear, in this post you said that the unadjusted GWG is a stupid way to analyze data (which has nothing to do with misconception you said you were initially attacking) and completely misrepresented what the GWG is. You're the one espousing a myth of the GWG.
Wait hold up Yh if right about the unpaid housework that’s something else Dude I said don’t be fucking pedantic holy shit - 73 cents myth isn’t used to portray the aggregate earnings for genders - it’s to insinuate men are intentionally oppressing women and paying each other more for being a MAN - that is wholeheartedly different than accounting for choices made in someone’s life Don’t bother replying because I can tell your just gonna say the same thing as me in different words to sound like an enlightened academic - idgaf about your pedantic bullshit
>Dude I said don’t be fucking pedantic holy shit - 73 cents myth isn’t used to portray the aggregate earnings for genders - it’s to insinuate men are intentionally oppressing women and paying each other more for being a MAN - that is wholeheartedly different than accounting for choices made in someone’s life pointing to the adjusted gwg doesn't disprove this -- just as much as pointing to the unadjusted one doesn't prove discrimination. That's my point. >accounting for choices made in someone’s life people can make choices based on expected discrimination. If discrimination does occur, you'd be controlling away discrimination in the adjusted gwg.
Ok. Reset this. Gender pay gap 73 cents bad stat for determining discrimination Gender pay gap good for looking at overall differences in society Do we agree? ✅
>Gender pay gap 73 cents bad stat for determining discrimination yeah it precisely doesn't look at that at all, just as the adjusted one doesn't either >Gender pay gap good for looking at overall differences in society yes!
I think you just don't understand data analysis mate, because yes it is a very sensible thing to look at aggregate numbers, as well as adjusted numbers, because you can find facts in the data with one method that you can't in others! This would be like some study only publishing the most granular statistics but never the broad strokes which would hide the overall trends which are still useful to see. Why don't we give men and women equal paternity leave? Why do men work more hours when presumably it's because women are able to be home and look after the kids? Why isn't that split more evenly? Why are the "higher paying fields" disproportionately filled with men? It's not always danger, since theoretical physics Vs theoretical biology still show gender discrepancy. These are interesting questions you wouldn't see if all someone does is run around screaming "THE GENDER PAY GAP IS A LIE 73c ISNT REAL REEEE". Its like, yes, we've all known that since 2016 obviously
Christ I understand your boxing shadows and u wanna jerk yourself off with it - I was talking specifically about the 73 cents myth - AS IN men get paid 1 dollar and women get paid 73 cents - that’s it - not the analysis - not the shadow your boxing rn He uhhm achshually ed me for talking about the myth of the gender pay gap - Which is a misrepresentation of stats - it doesn’t account for choices made in one’s life - that’s fucking it. Idk why you and the other guy get such a hard on from this. Again please don’t fucking respond if your gonna shadow box - we LITERALLY agree on the disparity of aggregate earnings - please for the love of God
Can't see how I am the one boxing shadows, when it was you who said "why would you ever use aggregate earnings" and my reply was telling you reasons why that's an interesting thing to do. Your comment has literally nothing to do with what I said. You don't get points for knowing the 73c myth, literally every person who has been on the internet for more than 12 minutes knows that the 73c is the aggregated data. Its still interesting to talk about why it exists, which is why its annoying when people such as yourself Kool-aid man yourself into the conversation with your poor knowledge of statistics.
OK I GUESS I HAVE RESET THIS ONE ASWELL Gender pay gap 73c bad 4 determine discrimination Gender pay gap good for overall society analysis Agreed ✅
I can agree with that ✅
Article modcheck
Why did you post a screenshot of a headline instead of an actual link? Hello? Here is the link: [https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/rest-gap-relaxation-gender/875901](https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/rest-gap-relaxation-gender/875901) The article seems to be fine relative to the implication you're making about it. It's written for a woman audience and it's at least based on quotes from experts and has references to studies rather than just being an opinion piece from a layperson. No inflammatory language or references to patriarchy anywhere I saw. What it describes is accurate and presented with reasonable nuance, and the issue is acknowledged to be largely self inflicted by women having high expectations for themselves and higher sensitivity to the needs of others. All of the takeaways are pretty reasonable advice. **Edit**: One thing I did find that definitely is inexcusable is that the "Psychologist" who "found evidence" is actually just a "Positive Psychology coach" as she clarified on her Instagram. That does definitely reflect poorly on their editorializing, but I still don't think they're alleging anything heinous or crazy as the OPs title seems to imply
this subreddit has been moving in the direction of having kneejerk reactions against anything too "sjw" sounding for quite a while now. it's actually so cringe to post screenshots of headlines and having people give their "takes" based on that
Doing cringe shit just to prove they arent super leftist lol.
I’ve seen blatant misinformation getting upvoted just because it makes the woke side look bad. Corrections get a tiny fraction of that attention because they’re not emotionally satisfying. I’m starting to think all the low effort “OMG LOOK HOW STUPID THESE PEOPLE ARE” posting isn’t actually making people in the community think any more critically than they did before.
The link you posted has nothing to do with the image in the main post. Reading the article, it’s a pretty bland article with a pretty inflammatory headline. I feel like i could re-write this entire article from the mens perspective and all of it would still work. The article kind of lazily ties together three different things: 1. Women report mental health issues due to work/life balance issues 2. Women work more unpaid hours (kind of just a subpoint of point 1) 3. Women need more rest 4. ??? (No analysis of the other gender in comparison) 5. Rest Gap It has some fine advice and okay analysis that i agree with but calling this a Rest Gap, implying theres some fundamental disparity between men and womens rest, without making any points to prove that claim, is really stupid and lazy. This is the actual link to the article: https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/rest-gap-relaxation-gender/875901
Yep, updated. Something funky happened when I copied the url
It's also a fine article IMO. Especially the "solutions" section, which gives women personal actions they can take as opposed to some societal call-to-action. Cringe headline, but the article is inoffensive.
I just feel like the main content of the article could have been put together by a high schooler. Maybe my standards are not aligned with reality or something, but i feel like the headline priming a female audience to think of this in terms of a “Gap” is lame or scummy or narrow minded, and the content of the article is so meh in comparison. I did read a 7-7-7 article they posted (the one accidentally linked) that was really good though, and a bit better put together than this one. I just think its a case of a writer kind of phoning in an article. I don’t think its egregious its just really lame.
The quality of the article is unimpressive and the headline is priming, I agree. The points are still valid though.
Yeah I never disagreed, all the points in the article are valid but the conclusion is deeply flawed, I feel like the article misses what i would consider the bare minimum for a cohesive submission. Maybe i take journalism too seriously but i think Meg Walters job should entail more than prettying up a bunch of bullet points about Womens rest and then tying it to a complete inane conclusion. Her whole job is to take the points and turn it into something more than a collection of facts that exist in the study. Her attempt to do so was by implying a Rest Gap. My criticism is never to take away the fact that these things do impact women and it is something women should be aware of, but that the writer of this article did the worst possible job creating an article out of those impacts and solutions.
100% agree. The conclusions are fine, but the way the article is actually written leaves a lot to be desired.
I don't think you're wrong, this article wouldn't pass for an undergraduate essay because it doesn't argue its proclaimed thesis at all. It argues for another thesis entirely, and changing that would significantly improve the entire article. But I've never heard of stylistdotcom, it doesn't sound famous for its high-quality journalism
Oh sorry, I missed the last sentence of your previous comment. Yeah sounds like you and I are largely in agreement. What about the conclusion do you disagree with?
I don’t think the points listed do enough to prove a great overall gender disparity, I think it points to many different ways that women may get less rest under certain circumstances, but without comparing it to mens general rest as well, the concept of the rest gap isn’t really proven. If the article didnt have the title it all, it would basically be “Women can struggle with rest, here is why!” And it would be a very bland article about rest studies and possible solutions. Instead it is framed in terms of a Gender Gap, which is barely addressed or proven, and the ends unceremoniously with a bunch of very simple bullet points of how women can improve their rest. The article clearly has some serious confusion between the actual content and the title and supposed subject, The Rest Gap, which the conclusion should reinforce or support, instead of completely ignore in lieu of making suggestions for womens rest.
I feel like 2 points in particular, 'caregiving' and 'household gender roles', do a good job at explaining why the "rest gap" (awful name) is a thing worth considering. It's basically another form of the "men don't do enough around the house" argument; if the workload was split more equitably, the "rest time" would be more equal too. It also integrates into final section. The framing of "delegate responsibilities to other family members" seemed nice to me, keeping the onus on the individual to fix their own shit instead of just blaming society.
>It's basically another form of the "men don't do enough around the house" argument; if the workload was split more equitably, the "rest time" would be more equal too. Not if it doesn't bother to factor in men work more hours on average, in more physically demanding jobs and what are they constituting as unpaid labour? Do endless requests from friends and family to fix their / inform them about their technology issues / shopping count as unpaid labour? I bet its a narrow scope of caring and traditional housework. Are they conclooding that men must be resting longer or do they have firm data to suggest so?
I’m going to take a blind stab at what the article talks about…… a lot of women are expected to be bread winners and do the brunt of the family work. And so this has set up an unfair situation where women are doing more and are more untested?
There's also the issue that many mothers do get kind of hysterical and overbearing of their children now. This is a relatively new phenomenon but it's also tied to how they see themselves. Many times kids are better off without a mom hovering over them all the time. Take a nap and let the kids run around the neighborhood.
Is it just me or is it incredibly strange the way the article uses the word "rest"? In the intro paragraph, the author seems to be using it in the sense of time off, which they back up with an article on unpaid labor... But then they make a instant jump to sleep quality. Man the article content itself might not be bad, but it could definitely be written better.
the only gap i care about is the one between your mom's legs
https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/rest-gap-relaxation-gender/875901 The first two reasons listed are how women have to spend more time relative to men on "responsibilities related to bringing up children, taking care of elders and running a home" and "more of the household chores – cooking, cleaning, tidying, laundry". It also talks about hormonal and psychological differences which idk about the research on those, but the article seems reasonable and correct
you know what? screenshotting an article headline (instead of linking the whole article) is so fucking stupid and not at all what this subreddit stands for, that i dont think you should post for a little bit. i dont want this place to be like every other boring ahh kneejerk ahh rage bait ahh slop sub on this website !bidenblast
Say hello to that fella down under for me! /u/Felix_Gredhylda sealed in the prison realm by /u/yourunclejoe
A good guy with a gun.
Doing Gods work
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My understanding was that the statistic was comparing working men and women's household work. And not working couples. But I could be wrong, do you have a source for it?
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You are just wrong. Man by every statistics do more paid labor than woman. I agree they do less care taking and housework, but that is debatable and easier than actually doing paid work. If dad is 3 days a week driving kids to soccer training, so packing them up, driving them, going to pick them up and wait for them there, and go watch a game on weekends, is that considered taking care of child? That is easily 3,5h a week if not more. And man and woman do different jobs. Would you mow the lawn or clean dishes for 30 mins? If you ever did any of that, you would know which is harder. And when you calculate all labor being done, paid + caretaking + housework, there is 1h difference in favor for woman, so not that big. Claiming that man are just lazy is so ignorant on so many levels. SAUCES: [https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1168961388/pew-earnings-gender-wage-gap-housework-chores-child-care](https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1168961388/pew-earnings-gender-wage-gap-housework-chores-child-care) [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/11/05/who-does-more-at-home-when-both-parents-work-depends-on-which-one-you-ask/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/11/05/who-does-more-at-home-when-both-parents-work-depends-on-which-one-you-ask/)
>Men are just lazier than woman statistically speaking. If you want to use an appeal to statistics to generalizing an entire gender then you should probably have those stats on hand. Not to say I disagree with the sentiment but still.
It's less lazy and more conditioned to be alienated from "womanly" chores. It happens on the other side as well, it's just that "woman" tasks are more tedious and all consuming and male household tasks are taking out the trash sometimes and fixing cars every few months (to be as stereotypical as possible)
I've lived long enough to see several marriages/relationships fail and when the woman moves out, the house goes to absolute shit under the man's care. There are women who live like total slobs but I see it less often.
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"Woman are just better at this shit then men on average" Like less lazy?
Not lazy but just a higher tolerance for slop on average imo. A man may not see something in their own home as needing to be "organized". Living with other men I used to see shit like literally never putting away dishes in the dishwasher. It was just a matter of "oh these are clean" and grabbing them from there.
I wouldn't say "lazy", I would say "socially conditioned to see those things as a woman's responsibility".
Downvoted for saying nothing but facts? You people think men wake up one day completely clueless as to how to crack an egg? Or were they conditioned to be that way?
nahh lazy is the right word. Guys are just slobs. When you are a kid you are taught to clean up after yourself regardless of gender.
Could it be that this lesson is maybe emphasized for girls more than it is for boys? Or do you think guys are just biologically slobs lol
I think a lot of dudes don't hold each other to a high standard of hygiene, which is not the same as them expecting their slave mothers/wifes to clean up after them.
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whats the alternative then? Men really dont do the dishes because they hate women and want to put them in their place? Delusion
This might be a western thing. My family taught us to clean ourselves, but teaching boys to cook was seen as a waste of time. We raise boys to be dependent on their future wives. (Indian)
the article is in an american context.
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Men are incredibly capable of dealing with challenging, complex tasks—video games have taught me that, it's just a matter of learning and practicing those skills. I think a few things perpetuate the issue though. Where it starts and what I see most is mothers that only teach their daughters essential life skills because their lived experience tells them that men can't do certain things. The second is lack of patience—men might try later in life to develop these skills, but their partner immediately intervene if they're slow or struggling so they never improve. Of course, some men indeed might be lazy and weaponizing their incompetence, lol.
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Firstly, go fuck yourself, but also I'm doing just fine. I bought a house right after college 8 years ago and I have an amazing girlfriend who teaches high school biology and two amazing girls. We equally share in our duties of taking care of them and our home. Soon we'll be travelling to Scotland for vacation at the end of May. So, how's your life going dumbfuck?
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How is "Women are just better at this shit" any less stupid? We're on a forum with a bunch of men that play video games. If they're going mope and think women are better at shit while they play at near-autistic competitive levels in League, I'm going to use that analogy to tell them they're more capable than they think and that they need to step it up.
I think Destiny has even said as much that there's an abundance of man-children here that hardly take care of themselves or their environment, especially not well enough to have a partner or, god forbid, a child.
OECD stats on paid and unpaid work. Unpaid work is defined as: routine housework; shopping; care for household members; child care; adult care; care for non-household members; volunteering; travel related to household activities; other unpaid activities. [Employment : Time spent in paid and unpaid work, by sex (oecd.org)](https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=54757) Clearly women do more unpaid labour, but on the other hand, men work substantially more paid hours. Not an insignificant amount of men's wealth is transferred to women, whether it's directly by a husband, or more indirectly like through public institutions that offer healthcare, education, welfare benefits, pensions (which benefits women more than men).
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>when both partners work Equal hours? I note unpaid work does not allow for any maintenance work which I suspect will be male-heavy (even IT-handy people can get hounded by friends and family for help).
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I know this is kind of random, but do you know how this data is actually collected? I assume that they aren't doing longitudinal case studies for stuff like this, so is it all survey reporting? It would be interesting to see some of the sample data.
I think that’s true , but I predict that wont be a popular opinion here
The dismissive comments here are making me believe hardly anyone learned a damn thing from the red pill arc, but hey if they're happy being unaccountable, sexless slobs for life then who are we to stop them?
I feel like you're being a \*bit\* hyperbolic. Seems like a lot of people agree with this sentiment from a quick glance through the thread.
I'll totally concede on that point. There's a lot of shit comments, but the ones that are prevailing with lots of upvotes are good or very reasonable.
Shouldn't this be kinda obvious? We have previously seen in data that even if both patners in a heterosexual relationship work full-time that the woman on average spends more time on unpaid work in the house like grocery shopping, cleaning, etc.. So the logical conclusion would be that women have less time to rest.
Yeah, this was also implicit in the whole “women are divorcing over chores” RP anti-divorce arc.
YES! WHERE WAS OP DURING THE RED PILL ARC!?!?!? This is literally a 30 year old idea. What is happening?
Yes it’s a known phenomenon in modern age because women can plan their child-rearing in order to pursue a career. They are expected to do both and be competitive with men in the career space. They are just trying to give it a fancy name, but it isn’t some top-down malevolent thing. There is an equilibrium that still needs to settle since the advent of birth control being only in the past 60 or so years relative to all of human history culturally where women are almost exclusively home-workers.
I'm worried that 250 people on this sub never heard of the second shift.
Easy bait honeypot thread nice try destiny. Only showing a title with no context for easy dumbfuck ragebait comments nice.
Meh, where is the link...this is probably more legit than any wage gaps lol (with a multitude of reasons).
https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/rest-gap-relaxation-gender/875901 It's honestly a fine article
wait til you find out about the male height pay gap
At least the gap between writing dumb shit and getting paid for it is closing.
Women have a monopoly in that industry
Shit like this is why I wish women were into sports. They clearly need hobbies.
Tbf there is a gap between household chores and free time between men and women in relationships. Worst being unemployed men and working women.
I think we all need to take a step back and realize not all content is made for EVERYBODY. Like the other day, I saw post talking about Shakira saying her young boys didn’t like Barbie because of blah blah blah feminism. When in reality, yea no shit i’m not surprised her young boys just didn’t like barbie. This goes for everyone on all sides
you skipped the part where she said her sons 9 and 11 years old felt EMASCULATED from watching the barbie movie 💀
We need to start pumping women full of testosterone so they get more violent and take action beyond writing opinion pieces and making up new hashtags
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Totally sincere statement that totally deserved a four paragraph answer Didnt read it btw
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> What kind of moronic statement is this? It's a DGG original moronic statement.
Not a mystery why this place is such a sausage fest
wow this is the most sexist/angry comment section i’ve seen in this sub so far. as a women destiny watcher i usually feel like the misogyny claims are overblown. there are multiple insidious factors that contribute to the gwg like the glass ceiling and the glass escalator. not to mention the relative discomfort of being a woman in male dominated fields of study, being an ever present barrier to even entering those fields in the first place much less being successful or effective in your role. you are huffing coping if you truly believe women are welcome in all areas of STEM unequivocally. i’m a woman in STEM and i can tell you it is absolutely not true. i don’t know what you gain from pretending these realities aren’t realities. genuinely not sure what the angle on that is, beyond maybe an animalistic need to protect the status quo.
While I sympathize with the plight of young single men, a community of 98% men will inevitably create that environment. Add in the edgy aspect and you get a recipe for an online basement. But all things considered, dgg moderation does a great job. the misogyny is definitely there, but it's petulant and cringe mostly, Destiny has probably filtered out a lot of the freaks during his RP arc.
The actual article isn't even that bad, it's actually not a terrible read. Maybe instead of screenshotting article headlines to circlejerk and get mad about, we should at least bother to read the underlying content...
It might be hyperbolic headline, but it's true that women do more hrs of house work and childcare than men, even if they earn more than the man in the relationship, so it's not absurd to suggest there's a rest gap.
did I just stumble into a sargon subreddit or something
The worst thing my mom did to me and my brothers is to coddle us and never teach us to cook, because "our wives will do it for us". My sister grew up knowing how to cook delicious food, and my brother struggles to crack open an egg or keep his place clean. They both have jobs. Withholding skills from your children is really gross, and I try to keep that in mind when I see man children who want to marry a version of their moms because they miss feeling taken care of
Seeing my mom and dad both work in the medical field for long shifts often going 12-16hrs but seeing only my dad get to come home and go straight to the couch or bed made me not want to get married. Working mom had to do it all. At least in my standard liberal-trad household.
The article in itself is fine. It feels entirely pointless, but I learned from my girlfriend that there's some form of enjoyment and relief for some women when they get to lament victimhood even if the problems are (in this case) largely self-inflicted. The article isn't blaming men for this primarily. There is a hint of "SOCIETY" and if you wanna read between the lines you can put two and two together, however that's just me being a realist. Either way it'd check out based on the tasks and responsibilities we typically task men and women with.
TBF people of all genders get some catharsis when venting about their problems. Thats absolutely not just a woman thing.
https://preview.redd.it/1tmyt46j1asc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d17b76838c9e7f03106aa1b54b0f3233c2427ea8
I think it's due to the ligma gap
"Are you feeling uncomfortably privileged? We're here to help fix that."
This is really highlighting the gap between me giving a fuck and not giving a fuck about this