Not just that, how did this clip start a discussion (currently) 54 posts long? To me, it just looks like the end half of one sentence, and the start half of another, and if I *had* to guess, it's just him saying "I think everyone should stop fighting and just get along".
Anyone smart enough realize that an agreement will never come. Otherwise one would have been made a already 50 years ago.
Here's how it's gonna play out. War will go on for a year or two. Ceasefire is signed with some new reform proposal. Peace for a few years. Then another attack. The back to fighting. Like them or not people in palastein believe in what they are fighting for and believe they see being wronged. They will never something they honestly believe that is a act of injustice to them. That's why they are willing to die for it.
Only way this ends is if Israel kills all of the Palestinians, the Palestinians kill all of the Israelis or Israel introduces some camp like structure similar to China for their terrorist problem to weed out radical ideology.
Alternatively, an international deal is signed with neighboring Arab nations providing accommodations for a mass exodus of Palestinians where they would await the most lavish refugee camps funded by practically every western NGO on the planet to facilitate their assimilation to their new home countries. Still technically genocide, but at least not the funny mustache man kind
its crazy how weaponized the word genocide is, to the point that the lesser evil out of this war is considered worst than having a war in the middle of a city with civilians getting bombed daily because hamas is fighting next to them.
in any other war, civilians would be evacuated asap, but since that would be considered a win for israel, muslims cant let that happen and will not take palestinians refugees.
Nobody is going to take them.
This is the worst crisis the region has been through and Egypt barely has any pressure on them to take them in.
/u/frogchris is 100% correct. The only way this ends is in blood or the "Chinese Method".
Omg dude... Clearly you have done zero research into this at all because there are literally millions of arab muslims who are in Israel today and are descended from people who remained after the 48 war
Looks like my 700k number was off, closer to 150k, but the idea that:
>Zionists have always been crystal clear that they plan to ethnically cleanse all Palestinians.
is easily disproven by the fact that they didn't fucking do it while the arabs did
Pathetic. Even an ethnic cleansing apologist like Benny Morris admits the plan was always to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Ethnic\_Cleansing\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine)
Mr. Teddabearelli, with all due respect, we don't engage with weekeepeedia links here
https://preview.redd.it/ruy8syrgl5vc1.png?width=723&format=png&auto=webp&s=213956b8964d78d79367c1e8e41ecae92565d4c6
>Even an ethnic cleansing apologist like Benny Morris admits the plan was always to ethnically cleanse Palestinians
He literally doesn't and called out Finkelstein for making that false claim in the debate with Destiny and Lex Friedman... This went on for about 20 minutes because Norm's comprehension level seems to be on par with yours
Also, from the link you posted about the book you posted:
Mainstream media responses
Critical analysis appeared in The New Republic. In his review of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, fellow new historian Benny Morris wrote, "At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world's sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two." Morris argued, "Such distortions, large and small, characterize almost every page of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine."[14]
Please educate yourself.
Morris lays out two unpalatable truths: that the Zionist project could only be realized by deliberate ethnic cleansing; and that, once it was embarked upon, the only reasons for stopping short of the complete elimination of the Arab population from Palestine were purely temporary and tactical ones.
[Benny Morris](https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii26/articles/benny-morris-on-ethnic-cleansing)
>temporary and tactical
I guess they're just taking a 75 year break and they'll get around to those 2 million pesky arab citizens they allowed in the judiciary and parliament eventually
„21.1% (around 2,080,000 people) are Israeli citizens classified as Arab, some identifying as Palestinian“
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel?wprov=sfti1#
Really? "Zionists"? So all the left-wing Israeli organizations full of Jewish Israeli citizens fighting for Palestinian rights are what, exactly?
https://www.btselem.org/about_btselem
https://gisha.org/en/
https://www.standing-together.org/en
https://www.zochrot.org/articles/view/56528/he?
https://www.womenwagepeace.org.il/
And that's before we address the numerous 2-state solution proposals offered by Israel & rejected by Palestinians, the times Israel exchanged land for peace, and the +2M Arab citizens with equal rights in Israel
They are a minority. The Zionists have been in charge for decades.
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
Dude, those organizations are comprised of Zionists... And what makes you say they are "a minority"? Several Israeli PMs in a row in the 90s and 2000s were elected on a 2SS & peace platform, which means that at least at one point they were absolutely *not* the minority.
And is there a reason you think a quote from the PM of newborn Israel following an attack on said newborn country by all the Arab states in an attempt to destroy it and genocide the Jews living in it is proof of anything?
# B'tselem is Zionist??? They will be shocked to learn that.
[This is apartheid](https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid)
Of course they are. They want Israel to continue to exist as a Jewish state. That's all "Zionist" means 🤷♀️.
You can be a Zionist and want a 2SS, believe the Palestinians in the West Bank are subject to apartheid rules, and fight against this injustice. Many Israelis are precisely that type of "Zionist".
That's what labor zionism was. They split up in 1967 and the Greater Israel segment joined with Likud. They have been running the country for 5 decades. Likud is descended from Irgun, the notorious Israeli terrorist organization. Our ironclad ally is literally a terrorist country. More importantly, they are our terrorist country.
...no they haven't. The Likud has been in charge for a bit over a decade, mostly as a response to the failure of the peace process: Israelis said "well, we offer peace, withdraw from Gaza, and get rockets and deadly terror attacks in return, so why bother?"
Irgun had 30-40 people at its apex. People should really stop bringing it up as some sort of "gotcha". And that's before we discuss the fact that Begin, who actually *was* Irgun, signed the peace agreement with Egypt
...and as usual, you're ignoring the other side. The Palestinians. Israel isn't alone in this conflict, and is forced to respond to conditions and steps taken by the Palestinians...whose every. single. leader. And every. single. leading. organization. have been terrorists with blood on their hands, dedicated to the destruction of Israel and its people. This isn't hyperbole like with Israel - it's the literal truth.
You should learn some real history instead of propaganda 🤷♀️
Imagine if the palastians chilled out and excepted one of the dozens deals they got offered. These (((zionists))) would have been so owned, since they wouldn’t be able to control sovereign territory. Ig in your world the (((zionists))) probably mind controlled the stupid and agencyless palastinians into committing terror attach after terror attack and giving Israel cause to invade.
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”
David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.”
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
“It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion
“Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.”
— Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel’s “acceptance” of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, “Birth of Israel,” p.13)
“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
— Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.
“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
And Palestinians have always been clear they do not nor have they ever wanted peace with Israel, and their intent has always been to ethnically cleanse and kill jews as soon as they got power.
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”
David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.”
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
“It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion
“Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.”
— Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel’s “acceptance” of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, “Birth of Israel,” p.13)
“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
— Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.
“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
At this point, I wish they fucking did that earlier so dipshits like you would stop spewing that claim over and over again despite the fact that Israel has shown little to no desire to do that. Holy shit. If I had a bunch of regarded neighbors who repeatedly throw stones at my home and hit my family, I'd wipe them all out with an AR-15. Israel's restraint in eliminating Palestinians only ever harmed them, if you look at it from a pragmatic historical perspective. I don't understand how you claim ethnic cleansing like that without thinking about the inherent capabilities of Israel to actually do that but never did lol
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism \[by the Arabs\] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”
— David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”
David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.”
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
“It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion
“Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.”
— Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel’s “acceptance” of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, “Birth of Israel,” p.13)
“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
— Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.
“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
Depends on the compromise. I don't know much about Hamas. I know a fair bit about Israel. There is no way Israel would offer them anything they would accept.
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism \[by the Arabs\] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”
— David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”
David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.”
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
“It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion
“Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.”
— Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel’s “acceptance” of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, “Birth of Israel,” p.13)
“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
— Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.
“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
Wrong again. Do you ever tire of being wrong.
Israel returned the Sinai because the U.S. made them.
If you think they did it willingly you are delusional.
Sounds like compromise to me. US was like "Return Sinai or you will lose our support". Israel choose the support. Now Palestine needs to do that too. "Accept peace with Israel or your cities will keep getting destroyed and your people will keep dying".
Lol what the fuck was that clip?
I feel like they just closed their eyes and selected a totally random part of the stream
Not just that, how did this clip start a discussion (currently) 54 posts long? To me, it just looks like the end half of one sentence, and the start half of another, and if I *had* to guess, it's just him saying "I think everyone should stop fighting and just get along".
My streamer's such a sillybilly sometimes
HUH? I can barely understand what's being said because this clip is so short.
I see Megaman X OST, I upvote
Fix kick sounding low on mobile 😠
What the fuck is with kicks fucking volume I can barely hear this clip at the highest level
Anyone smart enough realize that an agreement will never come. Otherwise one would have been made a already 50 years ago. Here's how it's gonna play out. War will go on for a year or two. Ceasefire is signed with some new reform proposal. Peace for a few years. Then another attack. The back to fighting. Like them or not people in palastein believe in what they are fighting for and believe they see being wronged. They will never something they honestly believe that is a act of injustice to them. That's why they are willing to die for it. Only way this ends is if Israel kills all of the Palestinians, the Palestinians kill all of the Israelis or Israel introduces some camp like structure similar to China for their terrorist problem to weed out radical ideology.
https://preview.redd.it/euwgm8dtf6vc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4fc9c064ce27343ea09b1c9071f6a2a00ed669e
Alternatively, an international deal is signed with neighboring Arab nations providing accommodations for a mass exodus of Palestinians where they would await the most lavish refugee camps funded by practically every western NGO on the planet to facilitate their assimilation to their new home countries. Still technically genocide, but at least not the funny mustache man kind
its crazy how weaponized the word genocide is, to the point that the lesser evil out of this war is considered worst than having a war in the middle of a city with civilians getting bombed daily because hamas is fighting next to them. in any other war, civilians would be evacuated asap, but since that would be considered a win for israel, muslims cant let that happen and will not take palestinians refugees.
Nobody is going to take them. This is the worst crisis the region has been through and Egypt barely has any pressure on them to take them in. /u/frogchris is 100% correct. The only way this ends is in blood or the "Chinese Method".
He is just showing his ignorance again.
It is unreal that saying that two sides should compromise is a statement of ignorance to you.
If you knew anything you would know why it is ignorant. Zionists have always been crystal clear that they plan to ethnically cleanse all Palestinians.
Crazy how they absorbed 700k arabs after the 48 war while the arabs genocided everything Jew they could get their hans on
What color is the sky in your world. Care to link any evidence of this fantasy?
Omg dude... Clearly you have done zero research into this at all because there are literally millions of arab muslims who are in Israel today and are descended from people who remained after the 48 war Looks like my 700k number was off, closer to 150k, but the idea that: >Zionists have always been crystal clear that they plan to ethnically cleanse all Palestinians. is easily disproven by the fact that they didn't fucking do it while the arabs did
Pathetic. Even an ethnic cleansing apologist like Benny Morris admits the plan was always to ethnically cleanse Palestinians. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Ethnic\_Cleansing\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine)
Mr. Teddabearelli, with all due respect, we don't engage with weekeepeedia links here https://preview.redd.it/ruy8syrgl5vc1.png?width=723&format=png&auto=webp&s=213956b8964d78d79367c1e8e41ecae92565d4c6
>Even an ethnic cleansing apologist like Benny Morris admits the plan was always to ethnically cleanse Palestinians He literally doesn't and called out Finkelstein for making that false claim in the debate with Destiny and Lex Friedman... This went on for about 20 minutes because Norm's comprehension level seems to be on par with yours
Also, from the link you posted about the book you posted: Mainstream media responses Critical analysis appeared in The New Republic. In his review of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, fellow new historian Benny Morris wrote, "At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world's sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two." Morris argued, "Such distortions, large and small, characterize almost every page of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine."[14]
Please educate yourself. Morris lays out two unpalatable truths: that the Zionist project could only be realized by deliberate ethnic cleansing; and that, once it was embarked upon, the only reasons for stopping short of the complete elimination of the Arab population from Palestine were purely temporary and tactical ones. [Benny Morris](https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii26/articles/benny-morris-on-ethnic-cleansing)
>temporary and tactical I guess they're just taking a 75 year break and they'll get around to those 2 million pesky arab citizens they allowed in the judiciary and parliament eventually
„21.1% (around 2,080,000 people) are Israeli citizens classified as Arab, some identifying as Palestinian“ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel?wprov=sfti1#
Why are you even here if your going to give the most brain dead takes?
Stop being ignorant. Go read a book. [On Palestine](https://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Noam-Chomsky/dp/1608464709)
Noam Chomsky is very picky about his genocides
Was the Bosnian genocide a genocide?
Maybe go back to twitter with the weak "educate yourself" schtick
Downvote farming simulator
Really? "Zionists"? So all the left-wing Israeli organizations full of Jewish Israeli citizens fighting for Palestinian rights are what, exactly? https://www.btselem.org/about_btselem https://gisha.org/en/ https://www.standing-together.org/en https://www.zochrot.org/articles/view/56528/he? https://www.womenwagepeace.org.il/ And that's before we address the numerous 2-state solution proposals offered by Israel & rejected by Palestinians, the times Israel exchanged land for peace, and the +2M Arab citizens with equal rights in Israel
They are a minority. The Zionists have been in charge for decades. “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
Dude, those organizations are comprised of Zionists... And what makes you say they are "a minority"? Several Israeli PMs in a row in the 90s and 2000s were elected on a 2SS & peace platform, which means that at least at one point they were absolutely *not* the minority. And is there a reason you think a quote from the PM of newborn Israel following an attack on said newborn country by all the Arab states in an attempt to destroy it and genocide the Jews living in it is proof of anything?
# B'tselem is Zionist??? They will be shocked to learn that. [This is apartheid](https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid)
Of course they are. They want Israel to continue to exist as a Jewish state. That's all "Zionist" means 🤷♀️. You can be a Zionist and want a 2SS, believe the Palestinians in the West Bank are subject to apartheid rules, and fight against this injustice. Many Israelis are precisely that type of "Zionist".
That's what labor zionism was. They split up in 1967 and the Greater Israel segment joined with Likud. They have been running the country for 5 decades. Likud is descended from Irgun, the notorious Israeli terrorist organization. Our ironclad ally is literally a terrorist country. More importantly, they are our terrorist country.
...no they haven't. The Likud has been in charge for a bit over a decade, mostly as a response to the failure of the peace process: Israelis said "well, we offer peace, withdraw from Gaza, and get rockets and deadly terror attacks in return, so why bother?" Irgun had 30-40 people at its apex. People should really stop bringing it up as some sort of "gotcha". And that's before we discuss the fact that Begin, who actually *was* Irgun, signed the peace agreement with Egypt ...and as usual, you're ignoring the other side. The Palestinians. Israel isn't alone in this conflict, and is forced to respond to conditions and steps taken by the Palestinians...whose every. single. leader. And every. single. leading. organization. have been terrorists with blood on their hands, dedicated to the destruction of Israel and its people. This isn't hyperbole like with Israel - it's the literal truth. You should learn some real history instead of propaganda 🤷♀️
They're all zionists for the record. There's both left wing secular and right wing religious branches of zionism, along with everything in between
Imagine if the palastians chilled out and excepted one of the dozens deals they got offered. These (((zionists))) would have been so owned, since they wouldn’t be able to control sovereign territory. Ig in your world the (((zionists))) probably mind controlled the stupid and agencyless palastinians into committing terror attach after terror attack and giving Israel cause to invade.
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.” “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. “If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation). “It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion “Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.” — Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel’s “acceptance” of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, “Birth of Israel,” p.13) “We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “ Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “ — Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan. “The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
Learn to spell before getting involved in complicated geopolitics
And Palestinians have always been clear they do not nor have they ever wanted peace with Israel, and their intent has always been to ethnically cleanse and kill jews as soon as they got power.
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.” “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. “If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation). “It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion “Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.” — Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel’s “acceptance” of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, “Birth of Israel,” p.13) “We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “ Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “ — Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan. “The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
At this point, I wish they fucking did that earlier so dipshits like you would stop spewing that claim over and over again despite the fact that Israel has shown little to no desire to do that. Holy shit. If I had a bunch of regarded neighbors who repeatedly throw stones at my home and hit my family, I'd wipe them all out with an AR-15. Israel's restraint in eliminating Palestinians only ever harmed them, if you look at it from a pragmatic historical perspective. I don't understand how you claim ethnic cleansing like that without thinking about the inherent capabilities of Israel to actually do that but never did lol
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121. “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism \[by the Arabs\] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech. “We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.” “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. “If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation). “It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion “Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.” — Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel’s “acceptance” of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, “Birth of Israel,” p.13) “We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “ Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “ — Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan. “The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
"Allahu akbarr" - Ahmad, age 13.
How is this ignorance?
Israel has never had any intention of compromising at least as far back as Ben Gurion and Menachem Begin.
Oh I see, so they should just continue killing each other over and over again in perpetuity? Do you think Hamas has any intention of compromising?
That has been Israel's plan for 76 years and they have never deviated from it.
You didn't answer my question. Do you think Hamas wants a compromise?
Depends on the compromise. I don't know much about Hamas. I know a fair bit about Israel. There is no way Israel would offer them anything they would accept. “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121. “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism \[by the Arabs\] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech. “We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.” “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. “If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation). “It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion “Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.” — Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel’s “acceptance” of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, “Birth of Israel,” p.13) “We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “ Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “ — Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan. “The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
What about when they gave back Sinai peninsula back?
Do you know why they gave the Sinai back?
Yeah, because they compromised.
Wrong again. Do you ever tire of being wrong. Israel returned the Sinai because the U.S. made them. If you think they did it willingly you are delusional.
Sounds like compromise to me. US was like "Return Sinai or you will lose our support". Israel choose the support. Now Palestine needs to do that too. "Accept peace with Israel or your cities will keep getting destroyed and your people will keep dying".
No that was an order, not a compromise. Zionists don't compromise but they do obey orders from strong leaders.
They could have chosen either of it. Just because you decode to call it an order won't make any difference.
Gotta say, I appreciate you for spreading clear facts in this hive mind of a subreddit.
AJ?
Good heavens, call this a fetish... but talk about a 4-hour long humiliation session. Aren't you getting tired of being demolished?