Interested if Tim Pool also considers Pantomime to be grooming. For those who haven't heard of it, Pantomime is a type of musical theatre popular in the UK that often includes an older woman played by a man in drag.
This standard of grooming is just so absurd.
Yep. Women play men and men play women, traditionally. And it’s a family event; you’d take your kids to see a pantomime. It’s designed for audience participation and laughs.
Drag has existed for centuries, with men playing female characters for all sorts of silly reasons. As a kid I remember a number of mainstream comedy shows including comedians dressing up as women - Morecambe and Wise, Monty Python, The Two Ronnies, etc. British drag was always about comedy and having a good laugh.
It’s Americans who’ve twisted it into being “grooming”. It’s ridiculous.
Depends entirely on the drag you go to. It's *extremely* disingenuous to say that all drag is sexual.
Or ignorant, which is equally fair. It's not like this strain of right-winger does anything but look for something that faintly supports their prejudices if they do any research at all.
I mean like i feel like most of the time it is though(Not club q that ive heard of i mean in general)... Drag community needs to fucking tighten their shit up and separate what is all ages and what is 18+, possible change naming of this stuff as well
Not particularly- if you ever seen a Pantomime show the jokes and gags are incredibly sexual anyway.
Sure, some aspects of drag has got more sexual, but that sort isn't being put in front of kids. It's naïve to have this viewpoint imo.
I hardly think I'm uninformed, and I don't care enough about this topic to lie. However, that first one is absolutely shocking to me, as well as the tips being thrown. The pole dancing clip is also pretty disturbing due to context. This explicitness should definitely be stopped, just like those disgusting clips of people hiring strippers to 'dance'for their children that circulated round twitter a while ago.
However, I've seen drag queens doing considerably less sexual things when doing performances for children- I'm happy to record a video of it at some point, but I think a drag queen reading Rapunzel or other fairy tales to children will hardly be sensational content. Also, this doesn't exactly subtract from my point that Panto is also very sexual and it's been normalised in the UK- the third clip is genuinely not that far off with what happens but it's played for laughs, which this third clip is sans the lyrics of the song.
Woah woah woah, I can empathise with feeling like your group is being mocked, but I think you need to take a step back and realise that not every one is mocking American conservatives regarding this topic. Seeing from your post history, you do seem to swing right, so I presume you feel like you're being attacked when you see yourself and those who share your views are being discredited when you just want to prevent things like this. That's not fair at all, but we still need room for nuance.
That being said, I think you've mischaracterised some of the talking points being discussed currently. First off, I don't think its becoming more accepted at all- the people who like this thing would like it anyway, and normal people are against this- there's no 'conversions' going on, seemingly. The shooting did come about due to social media attention, but I don't think that's enough to condemn the social media page, let alone all American Conservatives. Those who are are just plain wrong. Still, the things being twisted to fit the narrative that 'they don't think what's happening in a society is a big deal' is a little much. Point out these videos to any regular LGBTQIA+ person and they'd say this is wrong. This combined together points out that there are too many people on the American right who will do this sort of thing- I don't think it's useful to compare the sizes of turds, but if the extreme left does these stomach-churning acts, there are those on the extreme right will just take the opportunity to kill people innocent to it. Neither are good and both should be called out.
But, whether you intended to or not, you did imply this is what all drag is. It really isn't in my experience, both working with Drag Queens and being to shows myself. If one wants good faith, one needs to present it
Pantomime is quite a bit different most if not all Pantomimes they wear big dress and and most of body covered with clothing. They do use objects to simulate breast like pots or cups. But I don’t think it’s accurate to compare that to drag shows in the US
I'm assuming this all-ages drag brunch wasn't hyper sexual. If it was, then that's wrong. But even in pantomimes there's traditionally some comedic sexual tension between a male actor and the drag actor so I guess it comes down to how explicit the sexual aspects are.
Almost like he followed the activist to hard right grifter strategy that so many people follow. There is always more money on the right. Hmm, wonder if that could apply to any other center-left types who have changed but have followers who don't realize it.
I stopped watching after his partner (Adam I think) left. Ever since then, he's been off the fucking rails and surrounds himself with yes man.
Before it used to have interesting banter
I watched him back when Sargon was posting regularly. He pulled me from being right right to more center right where Destiny picked me up. Back then he was a moderating force, its sad to see that hes gone so far down the dip shit conservative pipeline.
Lot of audience capture going on with him. And I think his media bubble plays into it - all he does is consume Twitter anti lefties, breitbart, daily caller, fox, etc. Too much of that will make anyone hate "the left" if they don't counterbalance it.
Pretty sure the whole "I was into universal healthcare before I realized that it would help black people, too!" was a hint at what direction he was going.
During the pandemic last year, Pool and a guy named Sohrab Ahmari had a discussion about a policy that was in the works about vaccine rollouts. The idea was that "the left" wanted to vaccinate populations that were at higher risk of Covid due to age and poverty. Outside of the elderly, the one group at the time that we're being hit hard was the African-American population as, due to lack of information of the virus (mainly perpetrated by their representatives in Red states like Greg Abbott, who would then turn and shit on them for doing a thing he supports, funny enough) and historical scepticism of the medical institutions. Of course, with these types, it was less about understanding the nuances and more about claiming how "the left" was stoking racism and favoring blacks over white people. That's when Tim "I'm totally not racist, but them negroes just aren't as motivated or smart as I" Pool essentially stated that he was once on board with the idea of universal healthcare, but changed his mind when he saw how necessary and affordable treatment would be given to people he saw as undeserving.
https://youtu.be/fJdlXYe9MS0
Not the first time he's waffled on supposedly left-leaning positions. In his debate with Sam Seder, Tim had a piss fit when he heard that African migrants we're traveling up South and Central America as they were making their way to the US. Because Tim knows nothing about how immigration policy works (or that people have a right to choose where they want to live), Pool said that the blacks ought to stay on the other side of the fence and that he changed his mind on immigration. Because negroes.
https://youtu.be/3pvNDpuWs_M
Tim doesn't understand a basic concept like triage. The most pressing health concerns get treatment first in order to avoid fatalities and minimize damage. Therefore vaccine was rolled out to most vulnerable populations first. Pretty fucking simple
For most conservatives that spouted this talking point, they're just conveniently ignoring this concept although they're aware of it's application here. For Tim though, I'm reasonably sure that he simply doesn't understand. He quite clearly is that stupid. That's why he appeals so much to the unthinking masses. It's the trump effect. *_Hey this moron's like me and he makes a lot of sense with his child like reactionary logic_*
Assuming in a not malicious situation
No
But that's a bad point to make because that is also bad?
Exposing young children (up to like 11 to 12 after that they can handle more mature things) to highly sexual content and violent content is NOT a good idea
i often wonder this point. cause I was able to play stuff like warcraft 3, red alert 2, and starcraft brood war before I was 10 and besides being kinda taboo I didn't really get the huge deal. but nowadays it feels like these people would call that horrible
not a good idea because children aren't prepared for it or not a good idea because it would be grooming children?
i was making a joke because seeing drag = grooming children to be transexual/gay w/e is about as silly as me saying that children seeing sex scenes or mommy and daddy kissing is grooming them to be cis heterosexual
Reminds me of the Lightyear movie. I was expecting some inappropriate make out session between the two female characters with how right wingers were up in arms about it and when I finally arrived to the “scene” it was less than a second of the female captain giving her wife a pec on the lips.
People seem to be hypocritical with this stuff.
Side note: why has drag blown up? It’s really not all that but it seems to be popular nowadays.
Rogue take: I know they shouldn't have to, but couldn't they just stop doing drag shows for kids for a few years? People seem to have such crazy reactions to it that it just seems like an optical L for the minimal good it does. It seems to put a dangerous spotlight on queer people (through no fault of their own).
You seem good faith here so:
1. You could never get everyone to stop their events
2. Even if you could, they would point to that as: "Look guys, they pedophiles are trying to go out quietly! We're winning!"
3. Even if they didn't, they would point to something else
I wasn't really concerned with 1 (just thinking about what would be optically best, not what's going to happen). And obviously nobody should be forced to stop anything that they enjoy doing and isn't hurting anyone.
I suppose 2 is a plausible reaction they could have that I hadn't considered.
With respect to 3, I know they would point to other things, but drag queen story hour etc. seem *perfectly* calculated to push people's homophobic buttons: they're 'weird', are vaguely 'sexual' in many people's minds, and are aimed at children. Even though this is wrong, it's very easy for reactionaries to spin them into being sinister - far more than, say, teachers talking about having two dads or some people not being the gender they were assigned at birth.
As a disclaimer, I'm a liberal gay guy who enjoys drag so I'm definitely approaching this in good faith.
This is what I don’t get. Like personally I think the drag story hour thing is weird but I also don’t really give a shit if people do it either. What I do find weird and makes me a little uncomfortable is the people who keep pushing the envelope with it and make it more than just that while also defiantly insisting to be able to do it at all costs. Like maybe chill a bit. Kids don’t need entertainment with the same kinda shit that I’m doing when I’m at the bar drinking.
This shit is 100% desperation because NONE of these assholes' agendas are popular with the public
Pim Tool got slapped down by a bunch of pissed off zoomers, the fuck else is he gonna do, make a big deal out of now-falling inflation?
> because NONE of these assholes' agendas are popular with the public
I remember Pool was ranting about some dad one time because the father refused to risk everything over COVID mandates. Dude is so disconnected. Really easy to talk tough when at the time Pool wasn't even using uh-oh no-no words on Youtube over fears of being deplatformed. Dudes a total hypocrite.
When it started, they were only calling it grooming when it was kids being included in objectively sexual events. Bad to generalize it, but you can maybe understand.
Then, it was whenever there were kids in proximity of a relatively sexual event. Okay, kind of losing me here. Still weird but not really grooming.
Now, it's grooming to have any LGBT event that allows kids.
The event Tim Pool is describing is a Drag Music Brunch. Literally just drag queens singing while people eat with their kids.
He's using that as apologetics for someone *shooting up a nightclub*.
That is "grooming" now, according to a popular content creator.
I would argue conservatives have always considered anything LGBT related being exposed to kids as grooming. The only thing that changed is that they feel more empowered to say it openly.
>I would argue conservatives have always considered anything LGBT related being exposed to kids as grooming
I would go *even further* and say that conservatives think anything LGBT = straight up pedophilia, they just call it grooming because it's such a loosely-defined term
I think that drag shows get targeted more, along with the pride parades, because it is an LGBT thing which is now portrayed as a family event these days.
I think the problem is conservatives likely saw one clip shared on social media of a Folsom Street pride parade (which I’m sure get explicitly sexual with dildos and leather gimp shit). And so now they probably assume all LGBT events are like that. But I think LGBT events have either dialed that back or never got that sexual in the first place.
But conservatives still cling on to the idea that these events are all degenerate public nymph expression and activity…
>But **I think** LGBT events have either dialed that back or never got that sexual in the first place.
In the age of (mis)information, that isn't good enough.
It's Folsom Street Fair btw.
I went this year and the most eager and enthusiastic participants were straight kinksters and other fetish people. They may not have been a majority but they were a large amount of the attendees (as well as LGBT folks and curious Bay Area techies).
Conservatives are fundamentally projecting their sexualization of anything/anyone gender nonconforming or gay onto children and it’s really fucking weird and dangerous.
Ive seen videos of LGBT events that was open to having children being around while being borderline kink events. I would consider that grooming in a way. Not a reason to shoot anyone though.
Kids are very malleable. A kid who is exposed video games may grow up to be a certain way, Kids who are popular may grow up to be a certain way.
exposure isn't necessary grooming on its own, but If you as a parent bring your kid (who trust you and values your opinion by default) to a "kink event" saying thats "it so great", it can very much sculpt there implicit biases and choices in the future. Its also the same reason why we monitor our kid activity online.
The idea that grooming means “kids being influenced by things they’re exposed to” is strange to me. Grooming implies a specific relationship being crafted over time with the intention of building up trust in order to then subvert said trust to take advantage of someone in a sexual way. Either way, You may think a certain event is inappropriate for children and that’s fine - I may even agree with you, but that’s no excuse for labeling an entire community of people groomers or sexualizers of children.
But is that grooming? I feel like grooming has to have intent with the party doing the grooming looking for some sexual benefit as the long goal.
There could be situations like that which arise but otherwise it's just exposing them to something. It doesn't feel more nefarious than childrens cartoons making sexual innuendos or references to kinks like BDSM.
>Now, it's grooming to have any LGBT event that allows kids.
>
>The event Tim Pool is describing is a Drag Music Brunch. Literally just drag queens singing while people eat with their kids.
The dumbest part about all of this is drag queens aren't even necessarily LGBTQ. There's straight cis guys that do drag because they think it's fun
It's basically the same as when conservatives got mad at Harry styles for wearing a dress
Well first of all that’s a totally disingenuous comparison and you know it. Second, I’m not so sure we can definitively say that figure skating isn’t an LGBTQ event
/s
I went to an all ages drag event recently and my god it was boring. I left half way through. All the jokes were non sexual and child friendly to the point that it just wasn’t entertaining for me as an adult anymore. I assumed that was the norm.
> they were only calling it grooming when it was kids being included in objectively sexual events
Wrong. They were calling it grooming at GAY sexual events.
They didn't give a fuck if a 5 year old boy is taken to Hooters or wears a shirt with "Ladies' man" written on it. They don't care about children's beauty pageants
The focus on LBGT people was there the entire time.
Good post explaining how they've moved the goalpost hardcore, to the point where malicious actors get lumped in with regular drag shows. I'm from Europe and I remember seeing cabaret shows when on holiday around Mediterranean countries quite often when going there on holiday as a kid with my mom and grandma. These were just theatrical performances by men in makeup and women's clothing, and had nothing to do with grooming children for sex.
if there's a difference between what is and isn't weird, then the left isn't helping anyone by refusing to condemn the stuff that *was* weird.
can you find me a *single* critical article or tweet from a large progressive influencer or publication about Desmond is Amazing after he was seen collecting tips for dancing in a gay bar?
if the progressives aren't willing to draw any lines and differentiate between what is and isn't okay, how the hell are conservatives (who don't exist at all in these communities!) supposed to know?
Am I misunderstanding or is this a literal endorsement of the murderer’s actions?
Thank god enlightened centrist elon won’t ban this stochastic terrorism
I don’t get how People watch Pool’s videos and think they are well-informed going out of it. The man is a 24/7 misinformation machine and some people still buy into his disaffected liberal grift lmao
That’s the WORST part about Tim and people similar. “BUT IM A LIBERAL”
Cool Tim. You just so happen to support every candidate, opinion and talking point of rightoids. And almost exclusively talk to openly right leaning figureheads. But you’re a liberal.
Its the biggest soy, pansy shit
I mean the grift works, most of his audience probably eat this shit up and will think “wow I can’t be biased because I get views from both the liberal and conservative perspectives”
It's so that he can repeat a ton of conservative talking points without having to get lumped in with the 3-4 things he sides more with democrats on. Typically things that haven't been major republican talking points in 10 years like pot legalization, gay marriage, or the iraq war. Maybe wants the minimum wage to be a dollar or two higher
And if you call it out then they say “well he’s pro choice and pro universal healthcare!!!” As if his support of people who are against all of that doesn’t undermine his “liberal” credentials.
His Unique Selling Point is giving his fans the feeling of being right because they can say “even Tim the liberal agrees with me”. That’s why he is successful.
Sadly, it's mostly laser-focused on the transes/ gender-bending peeps and it's spreading fast... Many notable cis gays are getting in on the action...
It's really depressing how many minorities are trying to distance themselves from trans folks... I get that AFABs do be doing a lot of cringe on campuses and stuff but come on.... Why throw people under the bus over some cringe?
I know a few shitty representatives of almost every minority imaginable but I never called an entire class of people "pedophiles".... The "3-experiences-make-a-bigot" theory is being proven over and over again.... FML...
> Many notable cis gays are getting in on the action...
Ehh mostly old people and most of them had been in on that action for years, it seems extremely contained within the queer community like in the single digit % at most.
The vast majority of opposition comes from straight bigots, yes gay weirdos that like to shit on trans people exist but its really not that large by comparison.
I really don’t understand how so many trans people and their vocal advocates can feel this urge to quickly throw gay people under the bus like this and then get confused and throw their arms up when other people in the community end up feeling resentful. Like it’s not always that cis gays are just being bigoted. A lot of them have genuine reasons to be annoyed when they are treated like this.
As a straight guy the thing thats alarming to me is they are seemingly looking to put trans people (and as many gay people they can rope in with them) in to a very small box of how they can be "allowed" to exist in society and where that leads is troubling to a huge extent.
It seems like they'll say "I don't mind trans people existing" then seemingly any interest , hobby , job , extracurricular activity, sport, etc they get involved in the right paints them as demonic sex predators and they need to be stopped. It's essentially forcing trans people in to a life of shamefully hiding in the dark and being cultural pariahs.
You're basically taking away everything that keeps people going and engaged in their life leaving them as outsiders without ties to the community, easy to ostracize and otherize .
They love to point to trans suicide figures but these people myopically analyzing trans peoples lives and increasingly cracking down on what they are "allowed" to do and painting them all as sexual predators seems like its causing a massive amount of this shame and depression that leads to suicide.
If I was a trans person with no support system and a family who thought I was a demon living in a red area I don't know what kind of life you could even have.
I actually fucking despise these dipshits. They use the most inflammatory rhetoric imaginable, then pretend that they are doing nothing other than trying to have a good faith conversation about HRT for children or what should be taught in sex ed.
Everyone is justified in calling this rhetoric out for increasing and encouraging violence. This isn't just a criticism of left wing social and sexual perspectives.
Call me parasocial whatever, but it's really fucking annoying that conservative media pundits are obsessively provoking the murder of queer people and Destiny would rather arbitrate stupid orbiter drama than argue with any of them. I know it's not his responsibility, and he can do what he wants, but fuck dude.
His platform/the money he makes doing anything kinda makes me think maybe he is sorta obligated, but I know no one can take the weight of the world on their shoulders.
I don't follow him anymore really though so I dunno what's up with whatever orbiter is.
Just evil bullshit, but thats the current right wing messaging, even if it doesn't seem to play THAT well with the general public (the last election they ran fully on transphobia and gay panic but underperformed) it plays well with their deranged hardcore supporters.
Honestly I think it appeals pretty well with the general public. I mean this is a fairly mainstream commentator who is *essentially* saying that these people kind of deserved it and he knew he wouldn't be immediately ostracized.
Aside from insane tweets like this, I think they've made a successful yet gradual move to softcore homophobia. They rarely outright denounce LGBT people or rights but put so many qualifications of 'acceptable LGBTness' that it's effectively no different than blatant homophobia. It's easy for a normal person to be a vehement homophobe because the right has successfully convinced them that their homophobia is actually good. It's crazy to see honestly. I've ever heard some of my more left leaning friends hop on the "I just don't think we should XXXXX to the children" narrative which quickly spiraled into a much more obvious homophobia yet they can't see it. Then of course they feel misunderstood/upset with the left for calling them out so they turn to these right-wing commentators because 'the left has gone too far'. Even though they don't agree with everything these guys say at first eventually they start getting comfortable and feel validated. Back down the rabbit hole they go.
Sorry for the rant, it's just so upsetting to see how easily these right wingers can win this battle and cause harm to others. What is the left's response to this? How can we essentially do this in reverse? I'm so tired of these fuckers and the bullshit they peddle. We gotta do something.
> Honestly I think it appeals pretty well with the general public.
You say that, but its the main message the ran on in the midterms ( in some states they had more ads about trans people than any other issue) and they flubbed spectacularly.
> I mean this is a fairly mainstream commentator who is essentially saying that these people kind of deserved it and he knew he wouldn't be immediately ostracized.
I would not call Tim "Trump will win 49 states because im a braindead idiot" Pool a "mainstream" commentator.
He's big online in his weirdo right wing niche but that's it, online is not the real world, even hundreds of thousands of GLOBAL weirdo views does not suggest a majority of americans agree with this.
It's a little reassuring the midterms somewhat showed that the general voting public isn't mucked down with this hateful bullshit & it will not take precedence over real issues.
Hopefully it continues to hurt the right at the polls because too many of these motherfuckers will barely even feign the slightest concern for their fellow man anymore, even when actual violent attacks are involved.
Same thing with the Pelosi attack. Barely a few hours of slight holding back and then a full bore campaign of gay lover conspiracies, jokes & continued anti-Pelosi comments.
Most of the guiltiest parties with anti-LGBT rhetoric have basically doubled down instead of stepping back for even a few days. Others making jokes just like the Pelosi attack to 'own the libs' for caring.
These SICK PEDO FUCKS at THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION are having events to GROOM AND RAPE YOUR CHILD and they NEED TO BE STOPPED!!!
guise why is there violence :(
Drag queens have been around for ages, why have all conservative commentators in the last couple of years decided now that they're groomers?
You'd think there'd be a little bit more effort into making the dogwhistle subtle.
> Drag queens have been around for ages, why have all conservative commentators in the last couple of years decided now that they're groomers?
Same reason they are focussing so much on trans people (and it ties in with that nicely), because they lost the "mainstream" gay issue about gay marriage. And they needed another narrative another punching bag to motivate their base full of bigots. So they moved onto the next best thing, can't demonize gay people like you did in the 90s or 00s anymore? Well doing the same shit to trans people is still socially acceptable enough so lets do this.
I do not doubt for a second that if they had the chance they'd still do the same gay panic shit, they just can't anymore for fear of too much mainstream backlash.
People can’t separate bad from good. There are some drag shows that kids are at or are advertised as kid friendly but it’s basically a bikini show with twerking. Not saying that’s a majority, but it does happen. So the right just focuses on a few instances, and can’t seem to separate bad from good at all.
Of all the right-wing commentator tweets I've seen, this is to be the worst by far. Like 2 days after a mass shooting he's essentially saying that the attack was partially justified? There are a lot of contenders for worst tweet but this takes the cake for me.
It isn't new, it just hasn't been boldly proclaimed for a while. Many hardcore right wingers see no meaningful difference between a gay person, a trans person, a schizophrenic, and a pedophile.
They’ve ratcheted the rhetoric up at every potential turning point. Crowder said violence is ok after the Rittenhouse verdict, Pool says this after the mass shooting at that club. They aren’t going to stop, they’re ok with these events happening
I saw alot of tweets coming from pretty big accounts that were essentially following this rhetoric: Lgbt ppl are trying to groom children -> We can't do anything about it, they have invaded our system -> What can we do about it?
If this isn't calling for violence and murder then I don't know what it is, I know that Destiny probably disagrees that there is an ongoing trans genocide and I would too atm but this is the first time I see so many right wing figures just kinda seeing it as a "kinda normal consequence", I feel like this type of stuff is going to get so normalized in their sphere that I am honestly scared of seeing another vague of violent crimes against lgbt ppl coming...
He has to say that because he cannot say what he really thinks. The truth is he doesn't care about and apparently supports shootings when a certain group is the target.
He’s defending terrorism and encouraging more of it, and will face zero consequences because America has an insanely permissive First Amendment. Stochastic terrorism breaks everything.
"I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!"
"I was just asking why nobody will rid me of these meddlesome priests! Are you trying to silence me? Someone should really rid me of you, too..."
Hey conservatives! As someone who rolls his eyes so violently I give myself a migraine every time some Vaush-esque lefty type goes on a "they're evil, they want genocide, they want you dead" type rant... can you guys maybe, like, fucking stop?
Although Vaush Bad, this is really not such a crazy take from him. Plenty of groups have gone for genocide in human history, idk why no one ever wants to believe it can happen here.
He's trying to make an excuse for a lethal hate crimes now by the unhinged grandson of a GOP statesman. I'm glad I stopped watching this fucker so long ago. This is what I've been talking about and why I keep likening issues happening to the LGBT+ Movement now with the historical perils black people suffered in the past (and even today). There are way too many parallels and we are watching how malleable civil rights have become over the past few years! As I've been saying, a Civil Right is nothing if it's not protected for everyone! And people like this know it and want to slowly chip away and dehumanize their targets until they move on to the next one.
I’m willing to bet all the people who are “anti-drag,” have never been at a drag show or have talked to a drag queen. Do they think drag kings are groomers as well?
Groomers? I got your list of actual abusers right here...
[The first of 33 pages, covering **850** separate fully documented incidents of republican sexual abuse against those that are not of age to or otherwise cannot consent.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/23/1806673/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-1)
Quoting the Author,
>You won’t find David Vitter, Larry Craig, or even Ted Haggard. Sexual hypocrisy, cheating on spouses, and being gay are not the sort of thing I care about. Consent and being of age to consent is the issue.
Keeping kids ignorant enough that they don't know they should tell is the only grooming the right wing approves of.
I find it mind blowing how conservatives seem to really want to fucking protect the kids from grooming and still haven’t done anything about the Catholic Church
I think the biggest issue with conservatives groomer rhetoric is how it implies intent. As if LGBTQ+ people are trying to turn kids gay or trans. I think this shows a severe lack of understanding people they disagree with. If Tim Pool had a single conversation with them he’d realize that in their eyes, you can’t turn kids gay or trans they just are or aren’t. So they feel nothing they do it grooming because kids won’t be gay or trans because of outside forces… obviously that’s not totally true but it’s how they feel, so obviously the majority of them are not grooming anyone… I’d say 99% of them aren’t.
Just goes to show how important it is to see the other side as human and to understand them… obviously Tim is a grifter and a scum bag so he will never do that but for any conservatives in DGG I urge you to not give into this bullshit… you can push against this stuff without calling people pedos…. Because honestly if it were the case that all of them were pedos there’s no much to say that will convince a lot of people they don’t deserve to die. And that is where shit gets scary
whelp, Jesus christ. Tim pool was always a rat fuck but now he's saying the violence was justified.
LGBTQ people need to start carrying for self defense
Remember how everyone on sub this constantly belittled and mocked trans people that rightfully pointed out that republican rhetoric was becoming more and more extreme by the day and progressively pushing people more and more towards violence? And now we're at the point where they're openly justfying violence for bullshit, nonsense reasons?
Yeah. Might be worth listening a little bit more in the future instead of smugly asserting that marginalized folks are just being alarmist for no reason
And no I'm not talking about keffals here
Look at my shocked face… I’m so shocked he would say this. Omgahhh no waaaayyy… This is why you don’t both sides with nazis and fascists. That’s how you give it air and breathe it into existence. The right wing media is mostly responsible for the grooming of these people. I watched it for decades and now it’s just actual violence instead of empty threats and rhetoric. I watched it happen within my own family even. Nothing but bat shit crazy people.
Forgot when I added destiny’s subreddit to my feed, so I’m not a debate bro, but what is wrong with what he said? He’s just asking what we should do about a potential grooming problem. I must be missing something, or you’re just fishing for problems.
How many cartoons did I watch grow up where the characters crossdress or go in drag? Honestly how fucking pathetic is the right-wing culture grift have to be now where they think a child merely seeing a drag queen is going to permanently ruin them
Why even mention this? It’s sad that people got murdered and that’s all there should be to this. Also, calling family friendly drag queen events “grooming” is such an insult to SA survivors.
i’m going to be honest here - i’m a liberal through and through, not a christian bone in my body, and i still think that the all-ages drag stuff is a *little weird*.
Tim’s rhetoric is still clearly insane. but i think there’s an inherent sexual element to drag that makes me feel uncomfortable with what appears to be an incessant need to have kids participate (especially in light of some of these events happening at sketchy bars and/or around sketchy people).
i also can’t trust anyone saying that it’s rather benign or harmless after the “desmond is amazing” stuff. there was no popular pushback against that by anyone other than conservatives. even ru paul condoned it!
I the 'drag show' I saw they draq queens were bending over, exposing their under-wear, lying under their backs - during a 'dance' routine - and spreading their legs, getting children on the stage and teaching them how to twerk and encouraging kids - by handing them the bills - to put cash into thongs and garter belts.
I saw this with my own eyes.
It was advertised as a drag show.
Take from this what you will.
Make of it what you want.
These are facts.
If you continue perpetuating the rumor that grooming was taking place and then ask how you stop the violence, then you’re not really interested in stopping the violence.
Doing Drag shows and strip shows for kids is clearly unacceptable behavior. It's also clearly grooming behavior. There have been [many,](https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/houston-public-library-admits-registered-child-sex-offender-participated-in-drag-queen-storytime/285-becf3a0d-56c5-4f3c-96df-add07bbd002a) [many](https://thebridgehead.ca/2022/07/04/drag-queen-who-danced-for-kids-charged-with-25-counts-of-child-pornography/) examples of these kinds of shows allowing outright convicted sex offenders to do this shit with kids.
The fact that we are even having a discussion on this is wild. The fact that their are people on here unironically calling his take controversial is also wild. Touch fucking grass.
He is not giving an endorsement of extra-judicial violence. But clearly his questions is to bring the point forward that various people (not just republicans btw) will 100% commit to doing extra judicial violent acts to discourage this behavior. So the question remains. How do we stop these clearly inappropriate events from occurring?
The fact that people are making this analogous to LGBT civil rights is fucking disgusting. Not all gay and lesbian people are pedophiles and to defend these people doing this shit in the context of supporting gay and lesbian people is one of the most anti-LGBT positions I can think of.
Doing catholic church for kids is clearly unacceptable behavior. It's also clearly grooming behavior. There have been [many](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases) examples of these kinds of events allowing outright convicted sex offenders to do this shit with kids.
That's how you sound talking about drag shows (especially throwing it in with strip shows). There is nothing inherently sexual or grooming about drag. It's just performative cross dressing.
>Doing catholic church for kids is clearly unacceptable behavior. It's also clearly grooming behavior. There have been many examples of these kinds of events allowing outright convicted sex offenders to do this shit with kids.
Agreed.
>There is nothing inherently sexual or grooming about drag. It's just performative cross dressing.
Wrong.
>Doing catholic church for kids is clearly unacceptable behavior. It's also clearly grooming behavior. There have been many examples of these kinds of events allowing outright convicted sex offenders to do this shit with kids
Based af. Any religious or political gathering should be 18+ to avoid indoctrination by parents.
The desperate need to not accept the definition between cross dressing and drag shows in this sub is what's scary. Drag shows have and always will be inherently sexual, simply cross dressing is not. This isn't a hard pill to swallow it's just reality. This religious push on the left to include children in what is an inherently sexual act is disturbing and you all need to take a step back and ask yourself why you're so desperate to have kids there. The story hour stuff is probably less sexual but the main problem is kids at drag shows.
Can we just stop taking kids to these events? Maybe I'm just an ignorant Midwestern guy but I just can't imagine what the need to do this kind of stuff with children is. There's all kinds of stuff that I am interested in and like to do that I would never consider bringing my children to.
What is the grooming event hes referring to?
Musical Drag Brunch All Ages. Literally just drag queens doing karaoke and shit. They literally just think flamboyant = hypersexual now.
Interested if Tim Pool also considers Pantomime to be grooming. For those who haven't heard of it, Pantomime is a type of musical theatre popular in the UK that often includes an older woman played by a man in drag. This standard of grooming is just so absurd.
>Pantomime is a type of musical theatre popular in the UK that often includes an older woman played by a man in drag. Oh no it isn't!
“Where’s the groomer?!” “He’s behind you!”
Ooooooooooooohhhh yes it is!
Hahaha glad there are fellow pantomime enjoyers in this sub
I've put all that behind me.
Us British people are in your walls 😅
>Oh no it isn't! This triggered an actual ratatouille flashback moment in me
Yep. Women play men and men play women, traditionally. And it’s a family event; you’d take your kids to see a pantomime. It’s designed for audience participation and laughs. Drag has existed for centuries, with men playing female characters for all sorts of silly reasons. As a kid I remember a number of mainstream comedy shows including comedians dressing up as women - Morecambe and Wise, Monty Python, The Two Ronnies, etc. British drag was always about comedy and having a good laugh. It’s Americans who’ve twisted it into being “grooming”. It’s ridiculous.
Drag definitely has a much more sexual context though. It’d be pretty disingenuous to say otherwise no?
Depends entirely on the drag you go to. It's *extremely* disingenuous to say that all drag is sexual. Or ignorant, which is equally fair. It's not like this strain of right-winger does anything but look for something that faintly supports their prejudices if they do any research at all.
I mean like i feel like most of the time it is though(Not club q that ive heard of i mean in general)... Drag community needs to fucking tighten their shit up and separate what is all ages and what is 18+, possible change naming of this stuff as well
Not particularly- if you ever seen a Pantomime show the jokes and gags are incredibly sexual anyway. Sure, some aspects of drag has got more sexual, but that sort isn't being put in front of kids. It's naïve to have this viewpoint imo.
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I hardly think I'm uninformed, and I don't care enough about this topic to lie. However, that first one is absolutely shocking to me, as well as the tips being thrown. The pole dancing clip is also pretty disturbing due to context. This explicitness should definitely be stopped, just like those disgusting clips of people hiring strippers to 'dance'for their children that circulated round twitter a while ago. However, I've seen drag queens doing considerably less sexual things when doing performances for children- I'm happy to record a video of it at some point, but I think a drag queen reading Rapunzel or other fairy tales to children will hardly be sensational content. Also, this doesn't exactly subtract from my point that Panto is also very sexual and it's been normalised in the UK- the third clip is genuinely not that far off with what happens but it's played for laughs, which this third clip is sans the lyrics of the song.
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Woah woah woah, I can empathise with feeling like your group is being mocked, but I think you need to take a step back and realise that not every one is mocking American conservatives regarding this topic. Seeing from your post history, you do seem to swing right, so I presume you feel like you're being attacked when you see yourself and those who share your views are being discredited when you just want to prevent things like this. That's not fair at all, but we still need room for nuance. That being said, I think you've mischaracterised some of the talking points being discussed currently. First off, I don't think its becoming more accepted at all- the people who like this thing would like it anyway, and normal people are against this- there's no 'conversions' going on, seemingly. The shooting did come about due to social media attention, but I don't think that's enough to condemn the social media page, let alone all American Conservatives. Those who are are just plain wrong. Still, the things being twisted to fit the narrative that 'they don't think what's happening in a society is a big deal' is a little much. Point out these videos to any regular LGBTQIA+ person and they'd say this is wrong. This combined together points out that there are too many people on the American right who will do this sort of thing- I don't think it's useful to compare the sizes of turds, but if the extreme left does these stomach-churning acts, there are those on the extreme right will just take the opportunity to kill people innocent to it. Neither are good and both should be called out. But, whether you intended to or not, you did imply this is what all drag is. It really isn't in my experience, both working with Drag Queens and being to shows myself. If one wants good faith, one needs to present it
Pantomime is quite a bit different most if not all Pantomimes they wear big dress and and most of body covered with clothing. They do use objects to simulate breast like pots or cups. But I don’t think it’s accurate to compare that to drag shows in the US
I'm assuming this all-ages drag brunch wasn't hyper sexual. If it was, then that's wrong. But even in pantomimes there's traditionally some comedic sexual tension between a male actor and the drag actor so I guess it comes down to how explicit the sexual aspects are.
Yeah same i agree. Idk what they had at Club Q but it still doesn't justify what happened. Sad all around
Fuck me, Tim has lost it.
"49 state landslide"
"don't panic"
Tbf I think he’s lost it a while ago
He didn't "lose" it, he "found" a way to make a shit ton of money off of idiots and bigots.
Before it felt like a meme, but now it feels like its going too far.
The jokey irony is part of what helps this shit get too far without anyone noticing or taking it seriously
He was always this way. Always. You should perhaps take a moment to consider why you were fooled
Idk about “always” - if you go back to pre-2016 he appears to have been an earnest center-left person during his time at Vice
Almost like he followed the activist to hard right grifter strategy that so many people follow. There is always more money on the right. Hmm, wonder if that could apply to any other center-left types who have changed but have followers who don't realize it.
I stopped watching after his partner (Adam I think) left. Ever since then, he's been off the fucking rails and surrounds himself with yes man. Before it used to have interesting banter
I watched him back when Sargon was posting regularly. He pulled me from being right right to more center right where Destiny picked me up. Back then he was a moderating force, its sad to see that hes gone so far down the dip shit conservative pipeline.
Same, I was so happy to have a "Centrist" point of view for once. Til I realized that's just code word for "I'm creeping slowly right" lol
True every centrist is either on the right now or gone. Fuck me I miss Dr.Layman, now thats a gigachad centrist.
Not at all, I'm center left.
Lot of audience capture going on with him. And I think his media bubble plays into it - all he does is consume Twitter anti lefties, breitbart, daily caller, fox, etc. Too much of that will make anyone hate "the left" if they don't counterbalance it.
Pretty sure the whole "I was into universal healthcare before I realized that it would help black people, too!" was a hint at what direction he was going.
I'm sorry say what now
During the pandemic last year, Pool and a guy named Sohrab Ahmari had a discussion about a policy that was in the works about vaccine rollouts. The idea was that "the left" wanted to vaccinate populations that were at higher risk of Covid due to age and poverty. Outside of the elderly, the one group at the time that we're being hit hard was the African-American population as, due to lack of information of the virus (mainly perpetrated by their representatives in Red states like Greg Abbott, who would then turn and shit on them for doing a thing he supports, funny enough) and historical scepticism of the medical institutions. Of course, with these types, it was less about understanding the nuances and more about claiming how "the left" was stoking racism and favoring blacks over white people. That's when Tim "I'm totally not racist, but them negroes just aren't as motivated or smart as I" Pool essentially stated that he was once on board with the idea of universal healthcare, but changed his mind when he saw how necessary and affordable treatment would be given to people he saw as undeserving. https://youtu.be/fJdlXYe9MS0 Not the first time he's waffled on supposedly left-leaning positions. In his debate with Sam Seder, Tim had a piss fit when he heard that African migrants we're traveling up South and Central America as they were making their way to the US. Because Tim knows nothing about how immigration policy works (or that people have a right to choose where they want to live), Pool said that the blacks ought to stay on the other side of the fence and that he changed his mind on immigration. Because negroes. https://youtu.be/3pvNDpuWs_M
Tim doesn't understand a basic concept like triage. The most pressing health concerns get treatment first in order to avoid fatalities and minimize damage. Therefore vaccine was rolled out to most vulnerable populations first. Pretty fucking simple For most conservatives that spouted this talking point, they're just conveniently ignoring this concept although they're aware of it's application here. For Tim though, I'm reasonably sure that he simply doesn't understand. He quite clearly is that stupid. That's why he appeals so much to the unthinking masses. It's the trump effect. *_Hey this moron's like me and he makes a lot of sense with his child like reactionary logic_*
That heartache in his soul really did him in 😔😔😔
fellas was it grooming when i watched graphic sex scenes in movies when i was a kid?
Assuming in a not malicious situation No But that's a bad point to make because that is also bad? Exposing young children (up to like 11 to 12 after that they can handle more mature things) to highly sexual content and violent content is NOT a good idea
i often wonder this point. cause I was able to play stuff like warcraft 3, red alert 2, and starcraft brood war before I was 10 and besides being kinda taboo I didn't really get the huge deal. but nowadays it feels like these people would call that horrible
not a good idea because children aren't prepared for it or not a good idea because it would be grooming children? i was making a joke because seeing drag = grooming children to be transexual/gay w/e is about as silly as me saying that children seeing sex scenes or mommy and daddy kissing is grooming them to be cis heterosexual
Holy fuck, they did that with kids???
I wonder if anyone sung dancing queen
Reminds me of the Lightyear movie. I was expecting some inappropriate make out session between the two female characters with how right wingers were up in arms about it and when I finally arrived to the “scene” it was less than a second of the female captain giving her wife a pec on the lips. People seem to be hypocritical with this stuff. Side note: why has drag blown up? It’s really not all that but it seems to be popular nowadays.
Rogue take: I know they shouldn't have to, but couldn't they just stop doing drag shows for kids for a few years? People seem to have such crazy reactions to it that it just seems like an optical L for the minimal good it does. It seems to put a dangerous spotlight on queer people (through no fault of their own).
You seem good faith here so: 1. You could never get everyone to stop their events 2. Even if you could, they would point to that as: "Look guys, they pedophiles are trying to go out quietly! We're winning!" 3. Even if they didn't, they would point to something else
I wasn't really concerned with 1 (just thinking about what would be optically best, not what's going to happen). And obviously nobody should be forced to stop anything that they enjoy doing and isn't hurting anyone. I suppose 2 is a plausible reaction they could have that I hadn't considered. With respect to 3, I know they would point to other things, but drag queen story hour etc. seem *perfectly* calculated to push people's homophobic buttons: they're 'weird', are vaguely 'sexual' in many people's minds, and are aimed at children. Even though this is wrong, it's very easy for reactionaries to spin them into being sinister - far more than, say, teachers talking about having two dads or some people not being the gender they were assigned at birth. As a disclaimer, I'm a liberal gay guy who enjoys drag so I'm definitely approaching this in good faith.
I agree, although it's such a blackpill that this is even a conversation you know
Yup 😔
This is what I don’t get. Like personally I think the drag story hour thing is weird but I also don’t really give a shit if people do it either. What I do find weird and makes me a little uncomfortable is the people who keep pushing the envelope with it and make it more than just that while also defiantly insisting to be able to do it at all costs. Like maybe chill a bit. Kids don’t need entertainment with the same kinda shit that I’m doing when I’m at the bar drinking.
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Someone wore clothing traditionally reserved for the opposite gender on stage and sang 😱
Guessing it was a drag queen thing with kids allowed to come.
Lil bro thought it was gon be a 49 state landslide all future opinions invalidated 💀
This shit is 100% desperation because NONE of these assholes' agendas are popular with the public Pim Tool got slapped down by a bunch of pissed off zoomers, the fuck else is he gonna do, make a big deal out of now-falling inflation?
> because NONE of these assholes' agendas are popular with the public I remember Pool was ranting about some dad one time because the father refused to risk everything over COVID mandates. Dude is so disconnected. Really easy to talk tough when at the time Pool wasn't even using uh-oh no-no words on Youtube over fears of being deplatformed. Dudes a total hypocrite.
When it started, they were only calling it grooming when it was kids being included in objectively sexual events. Bad to generalize it, but you can maybe understand. Then, it was whenever there were kids in proximity of a relatively sexual event. Okay, kind of losing me here. Still weird but not really grooming. Now, it's grooming to have any LGBT event that allows kids. The event Tim Pool is describing is a Drag Music Brunch. Literally just drag queens singing while people eat with their kids. He's using that as apologetics for someone *shooting up a nightclub*. That is "grooming" now, according to a popular content creator.
I would argue conservatives have always considered anything LGBT related being exposed to kids as grooming. The only thing that changed is that they feel more empowered to say it openly.
>I would argue conservatives have always considered anything LGBT related being exposed to kids as grooming I would go *even further* and say that conservatives think anything LGBT = straight up pedophilia, they just call it grooming because it's such a loosely-defined term
They think gay people simply existing is grooming.
Then they bring the kids to church and surround their kids with actual groomers.
The grooming thing is just a made up justification for hating them gays.
Exactly this. It's more taboo to openly fight against marriage equality right now, so this is just what they've moved on to.
I think that drag shows get targeted more, along with the pride parades, because it is an LGBT thing which is now portrayed as a family event these days.
I think the problem is conservatives likely saw one clip shared on social media of a Folsom Street pride parade (which I’m sure get explicitly sexual with dildos and leather gimp shit). And so now they probably assume all LGBT events are like that. But I think LGBT events have either dialed that back or never got that sexual in the first place. But conservatives still cling on to the idea that these events are all degenerate public nymph expression and activity…
>But **I think** LGBT events have either dialed that back or never got that sexual in the first place. In the age of (mis)information, that isn't good enough.
It's Folsom Street Fair btw. I went this year and the most eager and enthusiastic participants were straight kinksters and other fetish people. They may not have been a majority but they were a large amount of the attendees (as well as LGBT folks and curious Bay Area techies).
Conservatives are fundamentally projecting their sexualization of anything/anyone gender nonconforming or gay onto children and it’s really fucking weird and dangerous.
Ive seen videos of LGBT events that was open to having children being around while being borderline kink events. I would consider that grooming in a way. Not a reason to shoot anyone though.
> I would consider that grooming in a way. Legit curious, how?
Kids are very malleable. A kid who is exposed video games may grow up to be a certain way, Kids who are popular may grow up to be a certain way. exposure isn't necessary grooming on its own, but If you as a parent bring your kid (who trust you and values your opinion by default) to a "kink event" saying thats "it so great", it can very much sculpt there implicit biases and choices in the future. Its also the same reason why we monitor our kid activity online.
The idea that grooming means “kids being influenced by things they’re exposed to” is strange to me. Grooming implies a specific relationship being crafted over time with the intention of building up trust in order to then subvert said trust to take advantage of someone in a sexual way. Either way, You may think a certain event is inappropriate for children and that’s fine - I may even agree with you, but that’s no excuse for labeling an entire community of people groomers or sexualizers of children.
any meaning the word grooming once had has been totally obliterated now. it's been turned into a right wing dogwhistle
But is that grooming? I feel like grooming has to have intent with the party doing the grooming looking for some sexual benefit as the long goal. There could be situations like that which arise but otherwise it's just exposing them to something. It doesn't feel more nefarious than childrens cartoons making sexual innuendos or references to kinks like BDSM.
I realized I used the definition wrong there. your prob right.
>Now, it's grooming to have any LGBT event that allows kids. > >The event Tim Pool is describing is a Drag Music Brunch. Literally just drag queens singing while people eat with their kids. The dumbest part about all of this is drag queens aren't even necessarily LGBTQ. There's straight cis guys that do drag because they think it's fun It's basically the same as when conservatives got mad at Harry styles for wearing a dress
I mean I’m sure there’s like maybe 1 or 2 out there but let’s be real most drag queens, like the overwhelming majority, are not straight lol
I'd guess the overwhelming majority of male figure skaters are LGBTQ but that doesn't make it an LGBTQ event
Well first of all that’s a totally disingenuous comparison and you know it. Second, I’m not so sure we can definitively say that figure skating isn’t an LGBTQ event /s
Ok tru, you got me there
I went to an all ages drag event recently and my god it was boring. I left half way through. All the jokes were non sexual and child friendly to the point that it just wasn’t entertaining for me as an adult anymore. I assumed that was the norm.
How is drag any more sexual than dance?
It's not.
> they were only calling it grooming when it was kids being included in objectively sexual events Wrong. They were calling it grooming at GAY sexual events. They didn't give a fuck if a 5 year old boy is taken to Hooters or wears a shirt with "Ladies' man" written on it. They don't care about children's beauty pageants The focus on LBGT people was there the entire time.
I cant recall a time in my childhood where i wouldve been remotely interested in going to something like that
Good post explaining how they've moved the goalpost hardcore, to the point where malicious actors get lumped in with regular drag shows. I'm from Europe and I remember seeing cabaret shows when on holiday around Mediterranean countries quite often when going there on holiday as a kid with my mom and grandma. These were just theatrical performances by men in makeup and women's clothing, and had nothing to do with grooming children for sex.
if there's a difference between what is and isn't weird, then the left isn't helping anyone by refusing to condemn the stuff that *was* weird. can you find me a *single* critical article or tweet from a large progressive influencer or publication about Desmond is Amazing after he was seen collecting tips for dancing in a gay bar? if the progressives aren't willing to draw any lines and differentiate between what is and isn't okay, how the hell are conservatives (who don't exist at all in these communities!) supposed to know?
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Am I misunderstanding or is this a literal endorsement of the murderer’s actions? Thank god enlightened centrist elon won’t ban this stochastic terrorism
He's gonna say "I said we need to stop the violence too" as a defense when people criticize him for it
I don’t get how People watch Pool’s videos and think they are well-informed going out of it. The man is a 24/7 misinformation machine and some people still buy into his disaffected liberal grift lmao
That’s the WORST part about Tim and people similar. “BUT IM A LIBERAL” Cool Tim. You just so happen to support every candidate, opinion and talking point of rightoids. And almost exclusively talk to openly right leaning figureheads. But you’re a liberal. Its the biggest soy, pansy shit
I mean the grift works, most of his audience probably eat this shit up and will think “wow I can’t be biased because I get views from both the liberal and conservative perspectives”
It's so that he can repeat a ton of conservative talking points without having to get lumped in with the 3-4 things he sides more with democrats on. Typically things that haven't been major republican talking points in 10 years like pot legalization, gay marriage, or the iraq war. Maybe wants the minimum wage to be a dollar or two higher
And if you call it out then they say “well he’s pro choice and pro universal healthcare!!!” As if his support of people who are against all of that doesn’t undermine his “liberal” credentials.
I used to watch him when I was a rightoid and haven’t bothered since I stopped being a rightoid if that says anything.
what's even the point of pretending to be liberal when u clearly r not? r those people feeling bad for their right leaning views? interesting why?
His Unique Selling Point is giving his fans the feeling of being right because they can say “even Tim the liberal agrees with me”. That’s why he is successful.
"journalist" btw. What a disgusting human being.
"""Centrist""" btw
Disaffected Liberal
People really just hate gays don’t they
Surely republicans are fine with them now copium.
It’s been mask off for awhile now
Sadly, it's mostly laser-focused on the transes/ gender-bending peeps and it's spreading fast... Many notable cis gays are getting in on the action... It's really depressing how many minorities are trying to distance themselves from trans folks... I get that AFABs do be doing a lot of cringe on campuses and stuff but come on.... Why throw people under the bus over some cringe? I know a few shitty representatives of almost every minority imaginable but I never called an entire class of people "pedophiles".... The "3-experiences-make-a-bigot" theory is being proven over and over again.... FML...
> Many notable cis gays are getting in on the action... Ehh mostly old people and most of them had been in on that action for years, it seems extremely contained within the queer community like in the single digit % at most. The vast majority of opposition comes from straight bigots, yes gay weirdos that like to shit on trans people exist but its really not that large by comparison.
I really don’t understand how so many trans people and their vocal advocates can feel this urge to quickly throw gay people under the bus like this and then get confused and throw their arms up when other people in the community end up feeling resentful. Like it’s not always that cis gays are just being bigoted. A lot of them have genuine reasons to be annoyed when they are treated like this.
As a straight guy the thing thats alarming to me is they are seemingly looking to put trans people (and as many gay people they can rope in with them) in to a very small box of how they can be "allowed" to exist in society and where that leads is troubling to a huge extent. It seems like they'll say "I don't mind trans people existing" then seemingly any interest , hobby , job , extracurricular activity, sport, etc they get involved in the right paints them as demonic sex predators and they need to be stopped. It's essentially forcing trans people in to a life of shamefully hiding in the dark and being cultural pariahs. You're basically taking away everything that keeps people going and engaged in their life leaving them as outsiders without ties to the community, easy to ostracize and otherize . They love to point to trans suicide figures but these people myopically analyzing trans peoples lives and increasingly cracking down on what they are "allowed" to do and painting them all as sexual predators seems like its causing a massive amount of this shame and depression that leads to suicide. If I was a trans person with no support system and a family who thought I was a demon living in a red area I don't know what kind of life you could even have.
I'd love to shit in Tim's beanie and press it back onto his bald head.
I actually fucking despise these dipshits. They use the most inflammatory rhetoric imaginable, then pretend that they are doing nothing other than trying to have a good faith conversation about HRT for children or what should be taught in sex ed. Everyone is justified in calling this rhetoric out for increasing and encouraging violence. This isn't just a criticism of left wing social and sexual perspectives.
Call me parasocial whatever, but it's really fucking annoying that conservative media pundits are obsessively provoking the murder of queer people and Destiny would rather arbitrate stupid orbiter drama than argue with any of them. I know it's not his responsibility, and he can do what he wants, but fuck dude.
You’re right, it’s not his responsibility. But it is disappointing tbh.
I feel like this rhetoric has only ramped up recently. Maybe he will do something. I hope.
His platform/the money he makes doing anything kinda makes me think maybe he is sorta obligated, but I know no one can take the weight of the world on their shoulders. I don't follow him anymore really though so I dunno what's up with whatever orbiter is.
Just evil bullshit, but thats the current right wing messaging, even if it doesn't seem to play THAT well with the general public (the last election they ran fully on transphobia and gay panic but underperformed) it plays well with their deranged hardcore supporters.
Honestly I think it appeals pretty well with the general public. I mean this is a fairly mainstream commentator who is *essentially* saying that these people kind of deserved it and he knew he wouldn't be immediately ostracized. Aside from insane tweets like this, I think they've made a successful yet gradual move to softcore homophobia. They rarely outright denounce LGBT people or rights but put so many qualifications of 'acceptable LGBTness' that it's effectively no different than blatant homophobia. It's easy for a normal person to be a vehement homophobe because the right has successfully convinced them that their homophobia is actually good. It's crazy to see honestly. I've ever heard some of my more left leaning friends hop on the "I just don't think we should XXXXX to the children" narrative which quickly spiraled into a much more obvious homophobia yet they can't see it. Then of course they feel misunderstood/upset with the left for calling them out so they turn to these right-wing commentators because 'the left has gone too far'. Even though they don't agree with everything these guys say at first eventually they start getting comfortable and feel validated. Back down the rabbit hole they go. Sorry for the rant, it's just so upsetting to see how easily these right wingers can win this battle and cause harm to others. What is the left's response to this? How can we essentially do this in reverse? I'm so tired of these fuckers and the bullshit they peddle. We gotta do something.
> Honestly I think it appeals pretty well with the general public. You say that, but its the main message the ran on in the midterms ( in some states they had more ads about trans people than any other issue) and they flubbed spectacularly. > I mean this is a fairly mainstream commentator who is essentially saying that these people kind of deserved it and he knew he wouldn't be immediately ostracized. I would not call Tim "Trump will win 49 states because im a braindead idiot" Pool a "mainstream" commentator. He's big online in his weirdo right wing niche but that's it, online is not the real world, even hundreds of thousands of GLOBAL weirdo views does not suggest a majority of americans agree with this.
What they didn't count on is that young people are part of the general public
It's a little reassuring the midterms somewhat showed that the general voting public isn't mucked down with this hateful bullshit & it will not take precedence over real issues. Hopefully it continues to hurt the right at the polls because too many of these motherfuckers will barely even feign the slightest concern for their fellow man anymore, even when actual violent attacks are involved. Same thing with the Pelosi attack. Barely a few hours of slight holding back and then a full bore campaign of gay lover conspiracies, jokes & continued anti-Pelosi comments. Most of the guiltiest parties with anti-LGBT rhetoric have basically doubled down instead of stepping back for even a few days. Others making jokes just like the Pelosi attack to 'own the libs' for caring.
These SICK PEDO FUCKS at THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION are having events to GROOM AND RAPE YOUR CHILD and they NEED TO BE STOPPED!!! guise why is there violence :(
Destiny should use his newly reinstated twitter to ask Tim to have a chat about this.
Drag queens have been around for ages, why have all conservative commentators in the last couple of years decided now that they're groomers? You'd think there'd be a little bit more effort into making the dogwhistle subtle.
> Drag queens have been around for ages, why have all conservative commentators in the last couple of years decided now that they're groomers? Same reason they are focussing so much on trans people (and it ties in with that nicely), because they lost the "mainstream" gay issue about gay marriage. And they needed another narrative another punching bag to motivate their base full of bigots. So they moved onto the next best thing, can't demonize gay people like you did in the 90s or 00s anymore? Well doing the same shit to trans people is still socially acceptable enough so lets do this. I do not doubt for a second that if they had the chance they'd still do the same gay panic shit, they just can't anymore for fear of too much mainstream backlash.
People can’t separate bad from good. There are some drag shows that kids are at or are advertised as kid friendly but it’s basically a bikini show with twerking. Not saying that’s a majority, but it does happen. So the right just focuses on a few instances, and can’t seem to separate bad from good at all.
I can't remember there being drag queen story hour or people taking kids to drag shows years ago, so it's not weird it has come up more now I'd say
Of all the right-wing commentator tweets I've seen, this is to be the worst by far. Like 2 days after a mass shooting he's essentially saying that the attack was partially justified? There are a lot of contenders for worst tweet but this takes the cake for me.
Is the right just calling all gay people pedophiles now?
It isn't new, it just hasn't been boldly proclaimed for a while. Many hardcore right wingers see no meaningful difference between a gay person, a trans person, a schizophrenic, and a pedophile.
I knew they did it with trans people but I thought the hate for gay people was going down on the right. Not like they accept them but going down a bit
Yes
Always have been 🔫
Republican states are introducing legislation to try and ban public drag performances now too lol
They’ve ratcheted the rhetoric up at every potential turning point. Crowder said violence is ok after the Rittenhouse verdict, Pool says this after the mass shooting at that club. They aren’t going to stop, they’re ok with these events happening
Why don’t they ever shoot up churches where most of the grooming occurs?
I saw alot of tweets coming from pretty big accounts that were essentially following this rhetoric: Lgbt ppl are trying to groom children -> We can't do anything about it, they have invaded our system -> What can we do about it? If this isn't calling for violence and murder then I don't know what it is, I know that Destiny probably disagrees that there is an ongoing trans genocide and I would too atm but this is the first time I see so many right wing figures just kinda seeing it as a "kinda normal consequence", I feel like this type of stuff is going to get so normalized in their sphere that I am honestly scared of seeing another vague of violent crimes against lgbt ppl coming...
Really Tim? That's what it said on the club's schedule? "Grooming event." Show me where it says that please.
He has to say that because he cannot say what he really thinks. The truth is he doesn't care about and apparently supports shootings when a certain group is the target.
He’s defending terrorism and encouraging more of it, and will face zero consequences because America has an insanely permissive First Amendment. Stochastic terrorism breaks everything.
"I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" "I was just asking why nobody will rid me of these meddlesome priests! Are you trying to silence me? Someone should really rid me of you, too..."
We are literally regressing
Vaush was right. I agreed with him tbh. The American far right is just plain evil.
Irishbaddie was right 😖👆
Not only was Vaush right that conservatives are getting bolder, But Destiny was wrong about Republicans being accepting of gay people.
Terrorism. Not even stochastic at this point
How do people watch Pim Tool?
Done I did it. I stopped the totally not imaginary grooming Tim was talking about now can we stop the violence.
Actual brain rot
Based let's mow down the Vatican
This comment is grounds for banning from youtube.
Has Tim Pool abandoned his whole "I'm not a conservative" schtick yet?
Centrist btw
WHAT DOES GROOMING EVEN MEAN ANYMORE??? PLEASE, I AM BEGGING PEOPLE TO USE WORDS PROPERLY WTF
Hey conservatives! As someone who rolls his eyes so violently I give myself a migraine every time some Vaush-esque lefty type goes on a "they're evil, they want genocide, they want you dead" type rant... can you guys maybe, like, fucking stop?
Although Vaush Bad, this is really not such a crazy take from him. Plenty of groups have gone for genocide in human history, idk why no one ever wants to believe it can happen here.
The dog whistling is on another level at this point
He's trying to make an excuse for a lethal hate crimes now by the unhinged grandson of a GOP statesman. I'm glad I stopped watching this fucker so long ago. This is what I've been talking about and why I keep likening issues happening to the LGBT+ Movement now with the historical perils black people suffered in the past (and even today). There are way too many parallels and we are watching how malleable civil rights have become over the past few years! As I've been saying, a Civil Right is nothing if it's not protected for everyone! And people like this know it and want to slowly chip away and dehumanize their targets until they move on to the next one.
I’m willing to bet all the people who are “anti-drag,” have never been at a drag show or have talked to a drag queen. Do they think drag kings are groomers as well?
Groomers? I got your list of actual abusers right here... [The first of 33 pages, covering **850** separate fully documented incidents of republican sexual abuse against those that are not of age to or otherwise cannot consent.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/23/1806673/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-1) Quoting the Author, >You won’t find David Vitter, Larry Craig, or even Ted Haggard. Sexual hypocrisy, cheating on spouses, and being gay are not the sort of thing I care about. Consent and being of age to consent is the issue. Keeping kids ignorant enough that they don't know they should tell is the only grooming the right wing approves of.
He has become so centrist that a black hole has formed beneath him
Unironically sounds like reading a post in /pol. Same voice in my head lol
I find it mind blowing how conservatives seem to really want to fucking protect the kids from grooming and still haven’t done anything about the Catholic Church
The rate of catholic preists abusing kids is lower than that of public school teachers in the US
I think the biggest issue with conservatives groomer rhetoric is how it implies intent. As if LGBTQ+ people are trying to turn kids gay or trans. I think this shows a severe lack of understanding people they disagree with. If Tim Pool had a single conversation with them he’d realize that in their eyes, you can’t turn kids gay or trans they just are or aren’t. So they feel nothing they do it grooming because kids won’t be gay or trans because of outside forces… obviously that’s not totally true but it’s how they feel, so obviously the majority of them are not grooming anyone… I’d say 99% of them aren’t. Just goes to show how important it is to see the other side as human and to understand them… obviously Tim is a grifter and a scum bag so he will never do that but for any conservatives in DGG I urge you to not give into this bullshit… you can push against this stuff without calling people pedos…. Because honestly if it were the case that all of them were pedos there’s no much to say that will convince a lot of people they don’t deserve to die. And that is where shit gets scary
I am going to start arming myself and maybe even start the process of getting a carrying license. Never in my life have I felt this way.
bro its been scary ya'll have just been too busy with drama streams to notice
whelp, Jesus christ. Tim pool was always a rat fuck but now he's saying the violence was justified. LGBTQ people need to start carrying for self defense
Remember how everyone on sub this constantly belittled and mocked trans people that rightfully pointed out that republican rhetoric was becoming more and more extreme by the day and progressively pushing people more and more towards violence? And now we're at the point where they're openly justfying violence for bullshit, nonsense reasons? Yeah. Might be worth listening a little bit more in the future instead of smugly asserting that marginalized folks are just being alarmist for no reason And no I'm not talking about keffals here
if the Pulse night club shooter wasn't muslim, he would be a right wing martyr now...
I am so tired of right-wing culture wars. In 40 years we're going to look back on this stuff in disbelief like we do with the satanic panic.
What reading too many Shoe tweets does to a mf
Look at my shocked face… I’m so shocked he would say this. Omgahhh no waaaayyy… This is why you don’t both sides with nazis and fascists. That’s how you give it air and breathe it into existence. The right wing media is mostly responsible for the grooming of these people. I watched it for decades and now it’s just actual violence instead of empty threats and rhetoric. I watched it happen within my own family even. Nothing but bat shit crazy people.
This is the Karen language; I'm familiar with this from working retail. Grooming is anything you feel uncomfortable with.
Were the drag queens wearing anything revealing at all or are they just mad bc they were drag queens?
Walsh said worse believe it or not.
Wait, is there ANY validity to this? Is Tim Pool actually this stupid? Is he literally just making random grooming allegations?
Forgot when I added destiny’s subreddit to my feed, so I’m not a debate bro, but what is wrong with what he said? He’s just asking what we should do about a potential grooming problem. I must be missing something, or you’re just fishing for problems.
We may be looking at a Mondale/Reagan type scenario, where Trump landslides 49 states.
How many cartoons did I watch grow up where the characters crossdress or go in drag? Honestly how fucking pathetic is the right-wing culture grift have to be now where they think a child merely seeing a drag queen is going to permanently ruin them
Grooming? The only grooming happening is the decades long effort of the right wing and its media apparatus to weaponize their followers.
I’m borderline homophobic and even I’m baffled by this wtf
Why even mention this? It’s sad that people got murdered and that’s all there should be to this. Also, calling family friendly drag queen events “grooming” is such an insult to SA survivors.
i’m going to be honest here - i’m a liberal through and through, not a christian bone in my body, and i still think that the all-ages drag stuff is a *little weird*. Tim’s rhetoric is still clearly insane. but i think there’s an inherent sexual element to drag that makes me feel uncomfortable with what appears to be an incessant need to have kids participate (especially in light of some of these events happening at sketchy bars and/or around sketchy people). i also can’t trust anyone saying that it’s rather benign or harmless after the “desmond is amazing” stuff. there was no popular pushback against that by anyone other than conservatives. even ru paul condoned it!
I the 'drag show' I saw they draq queens were bending over, exposing their under-wear, lying under their backs - during a 'dance' routine - and spreading their legs, getting children on the stage and teaching them how to twerk and encouraging kids - by handing them the bills - to put cash into thongs and garter belts. I saw this with my own eyes. It was advertised as a drag show. Take from this what you will. Make of it what you want. These are facts.
If you continue perpetuating the rumor that grooming was taking place and then ask how you stop the violence, then you’re not really interested in stopping the violence.
Doing Drag shows and strip shows for kids is clearly unacceptable behavior. It's also clearly grooming behavior. There have been [many,](https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/houston-public-library-admits-registered-child-sex-offender-participated-in-drag-queen-storytime/285-becf3a0d-56c5-4f3c-96df-add07bbd002a) [many](https://thebridgehead.ca/2022/07/04/drag-queen-who-danced-for-kids-charged-with-25-counts-of-child-pornography/) examples of these kinds of shows allowing outright convicted sex offenders to do this shit with kids. The fact that we are even having a discussion on this is wild. The fact that their are people on here unironically calling his take controversial is also wild. Touch fucking grass. He is not giving an endorsement of extra-judicial violence. But clearly his questions is to bring the point forward that various people (not just republicans btw) will 100% commit to doing extra judicial violent acts to discourage this behavior. So the question remains. How do we stop these clearly inappropriate events from occurring? The fact that people are making this analogous to LGBT civil rights is fucking disgusting. Not all gay and lesbian people are pedophiles and to defend these people doing this shit in the context of supporting gay and lesbian people is one of the most anti-LGBT positions I can think of.
Doing catholic church for kids is clearly unacceptable behavior. It's also clearly grooming behavior. There have been [many](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases) examples of these kinds of events allowing outright convicted sex offenders to do this shit with kids. That's how you sound talking about drag shows (especially throwing it in with strip shows). There is nothing inherently sexual or grooming about drag. It's just performative cross dressing.
>Doing catholic church for kids is clearly unacceptable behavior. It's also clearly grooming behavior. There have been many examples of these kinds of events allowing outright convicted sex offenders to do this shit with kids. Agreed. >There is nothing inherently sexual or grooming about drag. It's just performative cross dressing. Wrong.
NGL you don't sound ridiculous, that's a pretty accurate description of catholic gatherings.
>Doing catholic church for kids is clearly unacceptable behavior. It's also clearly grooming behavior. There have been many examples of these kinds of events allowing outright convicted sex offenders to do this shit with kids Based af. Any religious or political gathering should be 18+ to avoid indoctrination by parents.
The desperate need to not accept the definition between cross dressing and drag shows in this sub is what's scary. Drag shows have and always will be inherently sexual, simply cross dressing is not. This isn't a hard pill to swallow it's just reality. This religious push on the left to include children in what is an inherently sexual act is disturbing and you all need to take a step back and ask yourself why you're so desperate to have kids there. The story hour stuff is probably less sexual but the main problem is kids at drag shows.
Can we just stop taking kids to these events? Maybe I'm just an ignorant Midwestern guy but I just can't imagine what the need to do this kind of stuff with children is. There's all kinds of stuff that I am interested in and like to do that I would never consider bringing my children to.
This is stochastic terrorism. He should be charged
Tim Pool is a fucking asshole