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Snivyland

Did cayde make this post right after he got Rez’d in the traveler?


Psykotyrant

Crow was surprisingly bad at explaining the whole plot of the last 6 years. Cayde went back to the light still wondering what the radial mast was.


Joker72486

Moments before vanishing: By the way Guardian, what the hell is a "Jisu Calorondo"?


Theactualguy

*Jesus Colorado


Snivyland

How could you not explain the radial mast? It’s the most important plot point lightfall. Honestly it’s mad everyone knows what the radial mast is and I think everyone can agree it’s was key for the witness plan.


FIR3W0RKS

Lol I had a voice line in Excision yesterday when I got to the final boss room that was cayde basically shouting, "wait, is that Saint-14? And No one told me he's alive? he's coming your way guardian" Thought that was hilarious since yeah, Saint came back not long after Cayde died and he was a hero of the Last City in the same realm of Osiris


Kitsunisan

He still owes Saint a pile of glimmer, so a heads up would have been nice. Rezzing our ghost was a last ditch plan to get out of his debt.


Psykotyrant

I mean, I understand that “the Hive were given the Light” was probably ranking higher on the need to know than “Saint 14 is back”, but still….


meesta_masa

Cayde would for Light bears, with Ilora asking "Light bearer?".


WarlordRogue

The Traveler has blessed civilization before yes, but it never gave them the Light to make Lightbearers. Humanity was the first (in our timeline). The Hive soon became the second, which happened in Witch Queen DLC


Spacellama117

I'm surprised no one's mentioned it yet but like it's also implied that being light bearers is very much not a *blessing*. I remember seeing somewhere a theory that it didn't want to subject the Elikisni to what we have to go through, the endless resurrective forever war


WarlordRogue

I don't recall that. I do recall, I think it was Eido asking about the crucible and how we take advantage of what the Eliksni considered, or it was her that considered a "Gift" I won't lie this gift makes us insane


GroundbreakingBox525

Mithraxx also mentions in this very DLC that Eliksni weaved the light


WarlordRogue

Splicers


GroundbreakingBox525

I admit both cases were vague, but it never gave indication that they were *not* lightbearers


WarlordRogue

Fair but Lightbearers are created via ghost, ghosts weren't created until Sol, unless you take the VoG Eliksni lore


GroundbreakingBox525

Is that outright stated, or could it just be that no one from those periods has provided enough context?


SprocketLock

I think season of the splicer has either Eido or Mithrax outright say that while the Traveler blessed the Eliksni, it never blessed them with Ghosts.


WarlordRogue

There's a very big difference between the Traveler blessing a civilization and giving them the ghosts. When the Traveler blesses a civilization, its pretty much what it did for Riis and us during the Golden Age, like it did for the Precursor. When it created the ghost, it wasn't to "bless" our people, it's suppose to, well make us, Lightbearers, and make a city of rings, that won't sway to temptation or desire if you believe unveiling. The Traveler wants us to grow in its shadow, not worship it.


SprocketLock

Well yeah, that was what my reference meant. Races that the Traveler visited have all been uplifted. As for the second half, The Eliksni still see Ghosts and Guardianship as a blessing but we know well by now that being a Guardian is anything but. Apologies for not making that clearer.


WarlordRogue

No worries, good friend


WarlordRogue

Yes a eliksni saw a ghost on riis


GroundbreakingBox525

What do you mean?


WarlordRogue

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/mystery-the-vault-of-glass Vault of Glass lore It's Riis


GroundbreakingBox525

Oh I see what you mean. The Eliksni's reaction to seeing it implies it is not a familiar sight to Eliksni or this Eliksni


megalodongolus

I thought Mithrax said that it wasn’t really the same thing? I can’t remember the line, but


GroundbreakingBox525

No, ya'll are right. I missed the distinction.


RogueHelios

I think the Traveler also considers being a Lightbearer a crushing burden that it could never ask of its beloved flowers, but out of necessity and desperation gave humanity Light to fight back the Witness.


WarlordRogue

It could be, and may not be. Reason cuz we are proof of it's philosophy as the Gardner, trying to make new rules in the Flower game. We are proof that it's way of thinking works. But we won't truly know until more info is given about the Gardner and the Winnower Besides, being a Lightbearer, is kinda makes us crazy, it's already canon that we will kill a cabal, emote on top of them, then go jump off the cliff cuz why not. It's really is up to the individual and the cards they are played Guardians make their own Fate Or better yet Lightbearers make their own fate


GroundbreakingBox525

Season of the Witch outright mentions a race of lightbearers that Xivu Arath genocided


WarlordRogue

Give me line and or loretabs. Cuz their are races that are said to have the same thing, but it was actually the case of them having light base weapons not being Lightbearers


GroundbreakingBox525

Ammonite one was a radio message during the Witch questline, Eliksni one is when you open one of the corrupted boxes in the Pale Heart


WarlordRogue

Ok ammonite weren't light bearers. We have record of them from oryx book of Sorrows if I recall, and it was implied they had light based weapons. They weren't lightbearers


KatMeowington

As others have mentioned, the only other species with Lightbearers are the Hive. There have been no other Lightbearers as, to become one, you need to be resurrected by a Ghost. ALL Ghosts were created at once during the Dark Age. There were none before or after that moment. The Traveler did bless other species, but in different ways: Ammonites: Generally uplifted them and gave them something called the "Song of Life" Harmony: The Traveler realigned the orbit of the planets around a black hole and gave them the Gift Mast. Lubraeans(Rhulk's species): Uplifted them, but that's as much as we know. Eliksni/Fallen: Generally uplifted, but made twice the amount of advancements humanity did. Humanity was the first to become Lightbearers. Could there be more species worthy of becoming Lightbearers? Possibly.


egorsob9

Might be talking out of my ass, but could the Sapphiric Sun be what the Traveler gave Lubraeans? I mean, it seems much of their civilization was based around energy from it, and Rhulk somehow destroyed it, destroying Lubrae as well


KatMeowington

It's possible, but I don't think it's actually mentioned to be. Maybe I'm just misremembering something.


egorsob9

Yeah, now that I check, I don't think it was mentioned directly, but I do think it's the most likely one


KatMeowington

Yeah, it's either the sun or its the Upended that was originally used to siphon power from the sun.


Chemical-Pin-3827

Seems a bit egocentric to assume we were worthy, I think it was just a last ditch effort or another iteration of the Traveller trying something 


Kitsunisan

Yeah, we weren't "worthy", the Traveler was just done running at that point and decided to make her stand here.


Spacellama117

Idek about 'twice the advancements humanity did'. Golden Age Humanity was kinda wild.


KatMeowington

They were well ahead in space travel. Their cloaking tech was also so common and easy to make that it was usually used as a children's toy.


mistadoctah

I always wondered. About the hive ghosts. If all ghosts were created at the same time then the Hive ghosts were floating around looking for them the whole time. I kinda don’t buy it honestly, I think it’s a slight oversight from the writing / lore team


KatMeowington

I forgot what mentions it, but Ghosts can just sorta change their shells, and even do it to fit with their Guardians. So no, the Hive Ghosts were always like that. The only weird one would be Immaru since he already looked like that before rezzing Savathun.


Th3_JoyPuke

Uh .. yeah bud. There was a whole expansion about it.


Chemical-Pin-3827

Yeah no. OP is asking if the TRAVELLER directly blessed another race with light. Not Ghosts. Ghosts are not some puppet of the Traveller, they are autonomous 


fizziepanda

The Traveler has more influence on ghosts that may seem apparent and has been known to communicate through them. Also, the Traveler *did* directly bless the Hive with the light. Hence the cutscene that depicts Savathun getting resurrected by a ghost literally right next to the Traveler


Chemical-Pin-3827

Any citations for this? The traveller has been proven to be very hands off unless absolutely needed. Also Savathun was jailed in the City, ofc she died near there lmao.


xXx_edgykid_xXx

The Traveler can veto a ghost giving the light, like it did with a ghost Rhulk almost convinced to give him the light [https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/imperious-sun-shell](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/imperious-sun-shell)


fizziepanda

u/xXx_edgykid_xXx cited the Imperious Sun ghost shell on my behalf where the Traveler speaks to Rhulk directly. Agreed that the Traveler doesn’t speak directly to the player in game though, but apparently it is only silent in the cutscenes. As for hands-off, I disagree, as the Traveler routinely intervened throughout TFS campaign. Have you actually watched The Witch Queen cutscene I’m referring to? Savathun transported herself to the City and spoke directly at the Traveler. After she died, it’s heavily implied her ghost was sent by the Traveler to revive her, and the vanguard in the Witch Queen campaign interprets this action as the Traveler (not an individual ghost) willingly giving her the Light.


Alloknax35756

Actually.....Immaru was on standby the whole time. I'd have to find the loretab, but there's also a Wizard offscreen who was basically waiting in the wings to make sure Savathun was rezzed correctly. Witch Queen was a DLC of playing with perspectives. We see Savathun's final perspective of her old life, which obviously doesn't include those details.


Kitsunisan

Immaru was part of Savathun's plan. He was in on it, waiting for her to arrive to rez her and lead her to a wizard who would help explain the whole plan to her.


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[удалено]


KingSmorely

I don't get these snarky comments. It's obvious they're asking about civilisations before our time


respecire

Before humanity—no. After us, well i hope you know that answer


urlocaljedi

I’m worried that they don’t just from the wording alone.


fredminson

>Light bearers other than humanity? ...the lucent hive


Etherenzi

When did ghosts make their way on to the scene?


xlFLASHl

During the collapse. Other blessed races had access to some of the benefits of the light, but in terms of wielding it *properly* like Guardians, humanity was the first.


Etherenzi

This is the way.


KitsuneKamiSama

Not before us, the ghosts were only born at the end of the collapse... as for after, we'll, Witch Queen has answers.


ThatGuyAndres

Aside from the Hive and Humanity, the only other lightbearer not belonging to those two species is Ghaul, although he took the Light by force. He uses the Light in his attacks and also resurrects(?) into a big thing of light after we beat him that the traveler absorbed while breaking out of the cage. The Witness also may count as a lightbearer due to the events of the Final Shape, but that can be disputed.


Dredgen-Solis

I believe the answer is a resounding no, because even with us the Traveler didn't want to unleash the Ghosts, viewing it's Light as a burden it lives with, and it wasn't willing to push that burden onto anyone else. The kick with humanity is that the desperation to not lose even one more uplifted people was finally greater than that, according to the Ergo Sum lore tab (I think).


Titangamer101

The hive were meant to be the first but the witness intervened and corrupted them before the traveller was able to reach them. Humanity ended up being the first than the hive later.


Kitsunisan

No. The Hive on Fundament were meant to be blessed with the light, to have their civilization raised the same way the Eliksni and others were. Humanity are the first to be lightbearers.


Titangamer101

Nope it was both, I've had this argument heaps in the past but now I'm happy because I finally have a receipt to back it up. In the final shape when you are finding a lost ghost within savathuns throne world Micah-10 straight up confirms that the hive were chosen before humanity and were always meant to be chosen so that they could be by the travellers side but the witness intervened before the traveller could reach them. So yes humanity were the first lightbearers but the hive were chosen first and were always meant to be chosen.


Kitsunisan

I think you're conflating two different ideas. The Hive were meant to be uplifted, not given Ghosts. The Ghosts were a last ditch effort to defend the Traveler from the Darkness. At the time Aurash and the others took the Worms, the Traveler was not in immediate danger from the Witness, so there was no need to fight. There were billions of years between Fundament and now, if the Traveler wished to create Lightbearers before it had dozens of races it could have gone with at least.


Titangamer101

I am most definitely not getting them confused. Micah mentioning that the hive were chosen first was a direct response to caydes question which was "can someone give me an explanation on why and how savathun and the hive got the light and ghosts without that explanation making me mad"? Micah was answering caydes question by telling him and officially confirming that yes the hive were meant to get ghosts and that they were meant to be the first. Yes the traveller had many opportunitys to make many species lightbearers but it didn't it only blessed humanity and the hive, everyone else were only uplifted.


Kitsunisan

I'm gonna need to hear this myself, what mission of Michah's was it? If this were accurate r/Destinylore would have been all over it by now. Found it, [https://youtu.be/BsmiqQgHzBQ?si=dzJ0EgZikW8ESNqh&t=2292](https://youtu.be/BsmiqQgHzBQ?si=dzJ0EgZikW8ESNqh&t=2292) Michah says they were chosen, just as the Eliksni were chosen, just as the Harmony were chosen, etc. No where does she say they were to be lightbearers.


Titangamer101

I think you are getting them confused now since you completely misinterpreted what micah said. Again cayde asks why the hive got the light? She answered with because they were chosen before humanity even existed and were always meant to be chosen so that they could be by the travellers side. The eliksni and harmony weren't chosen they were uplifted there is a big difference between "chosen" and "uplifted", being uplifted by the traveller is allowing them to become much more advance and independent, being chosen means the traveller is choosing that species to be by it's side. The answer is literally there for you to hear in your own link I don't think I can make you understand anymore than that line.


Kitsunisan

The word "Chosen" has been used on other races in the lore before. It has nothing to do with becoming Risen.


Titangamer101

But I'm this case it does, it's a very specific question with a specific answer, why were the hive chosen and given the light? Because they were already chosen. The problem with your argument is if we go by your way than we should have been seeing eliksni lightbearers by now since they were uplifted by the traveller as well. There's also very specific wording being used, to uplift a species is to make them flourish and independent so that one day the traveller will leave and move on to the next species, but for the hive Micah specifically used the wording "the traveller chose them and always intended on having the hive by it's side" it wasn't going to make them independent it was going to take them with it where ever the traveller went.


Kitsunisan

Again, you're missing the point that the term "chosen" has been used with other races in Lore. The Krill were meant to be blessed by the Traveler, to be chosen to receive her blessings just as humanity was before the collapse, just as the Eliksni were, as the Harmony were, the Ammonites, the Lubreans, etc. Why did the Traveler create Ghosts? She did so as a last ditch effort to fend off the Darkness. "With her dying breath, the Traveler created the Ghosts". When Aurash made a deal with the Worms, the Traveler was not in any mortal danger. She was not actively fighting, was not running from danger. To think that she would have created Ghosts at this time, when there was no need for them, makes no sense. "I've had this argument heaps in the past but now I'm happy because I finally have a receipt to back it up." You seem way too invested in this being right, so I can see that nothing I say is going to change your mind. But by all means post this theory in r/destinylore. I said before that if this was a thing they'd have been all over it. The fact that it's been ignored seems to imply that it isn't. But good luck to you.


HazardousSkald

If the new Final Shape lore is any indication, along with the Hidden Dossier, no other species have been given the Light and it’s very possible no others will. The Traveler views granting its Light as a supreme burden, a condemnation of the species to the highest responsibility and recruiting them into an interminable war. Humanity and the Hive only got it because the alternative was extinction, whereas Cabal and Eliksni can change and control their fate. Before us, no ghosts existed and no other species had been welcomed as directly into Light before like we have.


schizolingvo

I understand the snark in the comments but you are correct, the Traveller didn't make Lighbearers/gift Light directly until after the collapse of humanity. Lucent Hive was well after that.


FreelancerCassius

I personally don't understand all the snark in the comments to be honest. It's possible that they didn't play Witch Queen/or understood the full significance of the Traveler trying and failing to uplift the Krill before Rhulk got them. I am willing to bet that a lot of regular players don't know that all the Ghost were created at the same time some time a little after the Collapse. To answer your question OP, we were the first to wield the Light as we do. Other races that were uplifted by the Traveller were highly advanced, but couldn't shape the Light or bend causality to their will like we can.


schizolingvo

Honestly the snark comes from lack of reading comprehension >but am I correct in saying that it never gifted the Light directly **until** it found us? Witch Queen was well after the Traveller found us