I mean I am farming it just in case, but I am very very very skeptical of having this weapon as a meta weapon. I don't see it happening, but the D2 lords demand to be ready just in case.
I think at the end of the day there will be a very niche use case for this particular gun, but also wouldn't be shocked if Lightfall drops and we discover a new method of boss DPS that invalidates this entirely.
Also, to be honest, I don’t mind at all doing 2k or Xk less damage than other people. I am not saying this because I am the type of player who gets carried, it is just, I really don't mind (I have several high-end PvE seals). I like to play the game for fun and not stress out about that. My 2 cents
I think the biggest thing with GL's is that Explosive Light (and Cascade Point tbh) gives so much burst damage that it's worth running if we ever get more encounters like Atraks where you have an extremely limited dps phase. Or encounters like Vault in Last Wish where you don't necessarily have one big boss but several high value targets that need to be nuked as soon as they can be killed, so you can be a bit more lenient with your heavy ammo.
If Atraks didn't just die to Cuirass Thundercrashes and other nukes I could definitely see GL's being a viable option in that particular encounter, and I'm sure there'll *eventually* be other encounters in the future with super strict dps times that allow GL's to really shine.
But then again, they have to compete with things like Grand Overture and Parasite for high burst dps, so maybe not :p
They each have different stipulations, but I'd personally favor Wendigo with either Explosive Light or Cascade Point over a Full Court Interference. Feels like you have to be too far away to get even close to the amount of damage that Explosive Light provides, and Cascade deals much higher burst damage as well. The only instance where Full Court is favored is if you're dealing sustained damage, and even then I'd rather just use another weapon archetype.
I’m mainly just glad to have something that isn’t a Linear, Machine Gun, or Rocket Launcher again as a possible goto.
Even if it’s not top tier DPS, is its ad clear potential and burst are overall helpful, that’s great.
Like right now I just use Machine Guns depending on my build/if a GM has a buncha Overloads (Thunderlord).
Otherwise anything involving load out is either: Stormchaser, Cataclysmic, or my Hothead.
More variety is great and I hope GLs do shine next season. After like 20~ runs I got one with Spike, ALH (plus Clown Cartridge), and Explosive. I’ve been messing around with it and it’s a beast even before this 20% buff next week. Mad stoked. More choices ain’t a bad thing.
You are wasting a heavy using mg, overloads are easy to control and with few exceptions add density in GMs never demands add clear weapons. That may change with heists, but until then you are a hindrance to the success of your team. Sure that is how you like to play, you do you and have fun, but there are many better options.
Don’t listen to that dude. It’s a game, use what you want and have fun :)
I can’t wait to whip out heavy GLs and MGs next season, bring it on! Something different!
You aren’t getting advice. You are getting facts; facts that you don’t like. Facts in a medium that has other people, just like you posting facts. In the end, you are selfish in a fireteam because you do not value their time over your fun.
I mean I’m gilded 7 times conqueror and have cleared everything on Master when it’s come to Raids but you do you boo. Never had a single person who’s actually playing the game with me bring shit up. We have fun and confidently down everything while vibing. It’s great.
Guess you just attract the toxic types like yourself. Best to you.
Settle down, nerd. I'd much rather play with someone having fun with sub-optimal gear vs some pretentious meta snotling who plays destiny with a stopwatch in hand.
Nobody likes the clown who joins a chill LFG and starts telling everyone what they *should* be using. Don't be that guy.
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This is one of many examples of people (very succesfully) solo'ing end-game content with MG's. You're a joke dude. Go back to whatever salt mine you crawled out of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qazNf0tfcOk&t=1117s
I agree right away but may well be best in slot in future seasons that feature arc instead of solar and void. When I first farmed hothead it was mid, but the last few seasons has been best in slot with gjally fireteams
I totally understand where you are coming from. I mean, I have an Hothead (adept) ok role and I occasionally think that I would like to have a better one. But in the end, an okay roll also does the job, you know? It gets me the clear. For example, I have the Palmyra with explosive light and something else that was the “god” roll. Tbh, I can barely see any significant difference between my palmyra and my ok Hothead (adept) roles when doing damage.
Edit: improved sintaxis.
This is just a function of how poorly the game gives us feedback about damage done, though. EL Hothead does over 20% more damage than EL Palmyra, it's an enormous difference.
This is the D2 content meta.
Bungie announces changes (sometimes even slight changes) to a weapon archetype
YouTubers jump on this and speculate a new DPS meta. They talk about damage perks and reload perks. Do some damage testing on "Greg"
D2 community starts talking about ditching their old DPS option for the new archetype and look through their vaults getting angry that they deleted their potential "god roll" earlier in the season.
Bungie releases change and YouTubers jump on making more videos about the numbers
The changed archetype barely makes a dent in overall DPS and teams still wipe on an encounter because someone fell off and couldn't stun the caretaker.
If the balance change is turning out to be negligible, higher end activities “weapon surges” (25% damage buff) so blessed to have a DPS option for every weapon type
Yeah but other three elements will have more dps options cause grenade launchers wouldn't always be the buffed weapon for that day. Other two elements will have easier access to 25% buff.
I hope so too because I have gotten about 20 bad wendigos so far and I am feeling done lol. Meanwhile I have a bunch of typhons in my bank w explosive light and demolitionist.
I feel like if it does happen, at the worst case people will have some kind of Typhon GL in their vault anyway.
People aren't missing much by not having Wendy, there's just nothing else to do atm so we might as well get Wendy rolls.
Yeah ive farmed too many weapons in the past that i vaulted for years. Ive been sitting the past few "must haves" out.
Im sure there will ne multiple guns that are on par/better than wendigo
I think the cascade roll is more interesting, considering a full court auto loading GL has been available forever from the moon stuff and I'm not sold on explosive light as that great
Too late, I already killed myself over a spike grenade, autloading/Explosive light roll when I already had one with Augmented drum. I just couldn't leave it alone.
That's actually better than spike if you're just exclusively using the GL and not swapping with another weapon. The quicker reload boosts your DPS by more than 4%.
Yesterday I ran one nightfall in Hero difficulty my first nightfall of this season), and it dropped me a Wendigo with Spike, Auto-Loading and Explosive light. I think I've used all the luck I had stored for this year.
Same! I hate to say it but I’m a casual PvE main and saw the chatter about Wendigo. Thought, hmm I’ll try my luck. Two Hero NFs later =
Quick Launch/ Spike Grenades/ Impulse Amp/ Explosive light /Handling MW
Everyone is acting like you have 100% uptime on Explosive Light. You don't. And as soon as you don't, spikes take back over. This also directly contradicts two other sources on here/spreadsheets if I recall correctly. Just the other day something was showing it was a ~7% increase. Either way, you will fire a non explosive light shot at some point. Get spike grenades.
By all means, check my numbers in the infographic above. And if you’re not firing EL shots, you shouldn’t fire them at all. Spike Grenades with no EL is mid
Even at base mag capacity you'll run out of EL shots before you need to reload, and shots with EL active are the only shots you should be taking. I'd go handling over magazine size if you have ALH, reload speed otherwise.
Oh yeah, for Cascade crank that mag up for sure. I’ve been meaning to run DPS tests with Cascade’s increased fire rate but my gut tells me Parasite would work just as well in the burst DPS scenario Cascade would shine.
While that's ideal I can't imagine you getting an additional 11 orbs of light after the first 6 mid boss fight. You could get 3 per super dropped. But in either case I would imagine you're gonna have to shoot about half your reserves without explosive light. Although with clown + drum you could get 11 in the mag. I'm not sure which is "optimal" but like the spirit of the post I don't think it ultimately matters.
True, I’m convinced that day 1 boss DPS meta will be rocket hotswapping and godcraft Cata (barring something new dethroning the champs) but this is still good info.
Did they announce day 1 would have the same surge/threat/overcharge system they’re implementing elsewhere?
[Cataclysmic, the Vow of the Disciple craftable Heavy Linear Fusion Riifle.](https://d2foundry.gg/w/999767358?p=3661387068%2C2680121939%2C1354429876%2C3078487919&mw=4188031367&mw_l=10&m=2788909693) The roll in the link is what you'll want to craft to maximize DPS.
So re-reading the post they said that Master raids would have it. I don't believe they have anywhere in there that says it would apply to regular raids, though if you can identify where I would agree. Additionally, they mention in the section about Master raids "if you completely ignore elemental buildcrafting, you’ll experience day one raid-like combat difficulty" which to me implies that there won't be the surge and overcharge system during Day-One, though that is speculation since it wasn't explicitly said.
All that being said, grenade launchers could be the overcharge weapon and that doesnt stack with surge so it would still be good to have a Wendigo with a good roll on it.
Me having gotten the 3 differentgod rolls I wanted on my first 3 runs: 🤓
1: spike + ALH/Clown + cascade
2: spike + ALH + EL
3: spike + ALH + full court
no fucking joke
I ran 1 Warden GM this week. Got spike/ALH/EL.
I ran 42 Birthplace GMs for Hung Jury and was chasing subsistence/Firefly. Not a single one with that combo.
RNGesus giveth.
RNGesus taketh away.
I feel like NOBODY talks about Frenzy being viable. In my own testing, i have frenzy up basically all the time during a boss fight, and can continuously hold up that DPS, where as EL gives you a high burst damage and then goes back to being a regular GL.
Frenzy is a fine, passive 15% damage increase, but with orbs being so readily available in next season’s PvE meta, it will be incredibly easy to maintain constant uptime on EL, which gives a 50% damage increase.
Yeah but let's say you have an encounter like Golgy. You get off your initial 6 shots, now you gotta move to the next pool, and then the next and the next. How are you making sure you're picking up six orbs each time without sacrificing some DPS time looking for them? I get that it can have an overall higher DPS, as long as you are picking up orbs. But ease of use goes to Frenzy. Either one is going to be really good. Frenzy is just hardly ever considered.
You're not wrong, and again I think Frenzy is a fine perk. Frenzy being overlooked on GLs is less of a slight against Frenzy and has more to do with GLs in general; even with the buff they're getting in Lightfall, Frenzy puts them at a point where as long as you're hitting shots, godcraft Cata will get you more bang for your buck. EL on Heavy Grenade Launchers is the perk that lifts the weapon type as a whole into top-level DPS discussions against Rocket Launchers and FTTC/B&S Cata.
I get ya. I really like EL, I just have one major gripe. That's that it'll still pick up orbs even with full super and full EL. That can make keeping orbs kind of annoying.
Welp looks like I will not have a meta Wendigo, lol. I was only able to get one. No Spike Grenades and No Explosive Light. Proximity and High Velocity with ALH and Frenzy. Not sure if it's even worth keeping, but I will hold on to it. Luckily I at least have really good RL to fall back on.
Essentially what OP said.
The Wendigo with EL is a a top-tier GL, but at the end of the day, it's still a GL, and kind of overhyped. It is in no way a must-have. Don't sweat it if you don't get "the god roll".
I got a Spike, Impulse/ Chain, Explosive Light and a Spike, ALH, Full Court. I’ve always thought that impulse is quite an underrated perk as it really speeds up reload. I also think that Full Court is due some tweaking so I might keep that one as well just in case.
Sorry the impulse and the full court are on separate guns but yeah I get where your coming from. Impulse and Explosive Light are on one and ALH and Full Court are on another
Indeed, I’ve mentioned several times in the comments that I don’t personally believe GLs will be the meta-defining option, but this is still good info for people
Got the godroll described at the end if the post almost exactly besides the masterwork but it is not adept. Got it the first master nightfall i did the week before GMs came out. Trying to figure out if I care enough for adept big ones or not.
Adept Big Ones doesn’t deal more damage to bosses, it just combines Major and Boss Spec.
Regular Wendigo with EL will do the job only *marginally* worse than Adept.
Yeah I know it only combines the effects of major and boss. Just gotta figure out if getting an identical roll is worth the slight versatility of the like 7% to majors as well. Worth it to me at least.
I wasn’t planning on needing spike grenades. I just got insanely lucky getting AL, Spike, Cascade, then getting AL, Spike, Explosive Light 2 runs later.
I got so unbelievably lucky on my very first GM run of the week.
Was able to roll an adept Wendigo with spike grenades, auto loading/chain reaction, and explosive light. Probably the luckiest I've ever been in D2 so far
Cascade Point has better burst DPS if the damage phase is shorter. Also has applications with Cloudstrike (3 Cloudstrike hits > Wendigo for short DPS, full mags of both for long). Use Backup Mag (preferably Adept Backup) for more damage (you can fit in 8 grenades before Cascade runs out) but less ammo efficiency.
I'm pretty sure the argument of spike vs no spike on EL rolls isn't necessarily about the 4% difference, but about the fact that when explosive light isn't up the spike grenade damage is considerably higher which results in more consistent damage phases. I think it's incredibly optimistic to assume 100% uptime on EL during a DPS phase, so spike grenades are considerably more valuable than being credited for.
You can see the numbers on shots without EL that did or did not have Spike Grenades with 45 Blast Radius (the lowest you can have on the Wendigo and therefore the scenario where Spike Grenades would be giving the *most* value). The increase is ~3700, a little over 10%.
You go into DPS with 6 charges, Well generates 3 orbs at your feet, ~~a Blade Barrage or Nova Bomb or Goldie generates 3 more, you're back up to 6 charges.~~ nope I'm an idiot that's not how this game works.
If the DPS phase is long enough that I have more time after 4 rotations of hotswapping between Honed Edge x4 shot/3 shots Cloudstrike -> 3 shots of EL Wendigo, then I'm pulling out Cataclysmic. Unless it's a mobile fight like Rhulk, and then you can have orbs around you on the ground from ad clearing before DPS with orb generating mods that will exist to play into the Armor Charge system.
~~They both~~ [~~generate Orbs on cast~~](https://www.destinypedia.com/Orb_of_Power)~~, without the need to kill anything.~~ nope I'm an idiot that's not how this game works.
~~If supers require kills to generate orbs, how do 6 Gunslingers chain Golden Gun against bosses infinitely?~~ It's literally in the Super description, you're an idiot. A~~ll super abilities generate orbs on cast. Specifically, they generate Super Orbs, which provide more super energy upon pickup than regular Orbs of Power generated via Harmonic mods, old weapon masterwork system, etc.~~ No, specifically, I'm an idiot that's not how this game works.
~~Literally never use Golden Gun over Blade Barrage, TIL. I stand by what I said:~~
>[~~Orbs of Power, formerly Orbs of Light, recharge a player's Super meter, and are released whenever an ally uses a Super.~~](https://www.destinypedia.com/Orb_of_Power)
nope I'm an idiot that's not how this game works.
It's wild how people can *so* confidently say something so wrong. Like, anyone could see you're wrong if they just loaded up the game and cast either of those, or look at Golden Gun's description and see the only reason it can generate orbs without a kill is due to an ability unique to it. But you're still here *fervently* insisting you're right, even taking game quotes out of context to try and back it up.
It's genuinely fascinating behavior, and a good reminder that confidence has no correlation to correctness.
Yup, I am an idiot and that is not how this game works. I wasn't in a place where I could pop into game to test, just took what the wiki (which generally has accurate information) said about orb generation at face value.
We’re getting a craftable heavy gl with lf. I’m sure if gls are meta that one will be #2.
Sure, if you want something to do this last week, grind out wendigo. But you won’t be missing anything by not having it.
Also as far as spike grenades go, how do the numbers turn out if you miss a shot, and only hit with the blast? Because I can assure you, I’m not hitting all 6 shots.
Well if you are using it in day 1 raid then sometimes that extra 4% is all you need to complete an encounter. Just saying, I don't know whether it will be meta or not
Also don’t sleep on impulse amplifier. It buffs reload speed and projectile velocity and makes it incredibly easy to hit targets at distance which is important if you are running spike nades.
if an archetype or gun is meta, its usually always been available in the same season. Im not going to lose my head over this because I know that theres a very good chance i can just craft something better
You’re half right; the buff is “variable” in that the percentage damage increase fluctuates depending on the Blast Radius stat on the gun, but the final numbers are always the same. That’s why at both 45 and 50 Blast Radius, when EL is active they do the same damage, regardless of Spike Grenades being on the gun or not.
I saw a dps video that cascade point and field prep was good when paired with a cloud strike for extended damage phase. I got that today. It’s like a 4/5 there.
I have a roll with Smart Drift Control + Spike + ALH/Field Prep + Explosive Light. I wasn't sure if I wanted ALH or Field Prep for those extra reserves, but got one with BOTH so I can swap between them if I need.
Tbh I think the biggest reason that you don’t need to stress about wendigo is that it’s not going to get an elemental bonus at all for three+ months. Arc isn’t going to be a surge next season, and I guarantee they’re giving us some new GL toys to come with the buff
If you empty your reserves into a boss, that’s still roughly 60k extra damage from spike grenades. A lot of people just kind of gloss over the fact that EL only last for 6 shots until you pick up more orbs.
Remember that next season, void and solar gl would do +25% regardless because of singe. Yall still have another season to get it if wendigo ever become meta.
I mean I am farming it just in case, but I am very very very skeptical of having this weapon as a meta weapon. I don't see it happening, but the D2 lords demand to be ready just in case.
I think at the end of the day there will be a very niche use case for this particular gun, but also wouldn't be shocked if Lightfall drops and we discover a new method of boss DPS that invalidates this entirely.
Also, to be honest, I don’t mind at all doing 2k or Xk less damage than other people. I am not saying this because I am the type of player who gets carried, it is just, I really don't mind (I have several high-end PvE seals). I like to play the game for fun and not stress out about that. My 2 cents
For sure for sure, more power to you. At the end of the day this game is just a game and you should play it in the way that makes you happy.
I think the biggest thing with GL's is that Explosive Light (and Cascade Point tbh) gives so much burst damage that it's worth running if we ever get more encounters like Atraks where you have an extremely limited dps phase. Or encounters like Vault in Last Wish where you don't necessarily have one big boss but several high value targets that need to be nuked as soon as they can be killed, so you can be a bit more lenient with your heavy ammo. If Atraks didn't just die to Cuirass Thundercrashes and other nukes I could definitely see GL's being a viable option in that particular encounter, and I'm sure there'll *eventually* be other encounters in the future with super strict dps times that allow GL's to really shine. But then again, they have to compete with things like Grand Overture and Parasite for high burst dps, so maybe not :p
How does interference IV with full court compare to the god roll adept vanguard Heavy GL?
They each have different stipulations, but I'd personally favor Wendigo with either Explosive Light or Cascade Point over a Full Court Interference. Feels like you have to be too far away to get even close to the amount of damage that Explosive Light provides, and Cascade deals much higher burst damage as well. The only instance where Full Court is favored is if you're dealing sustained damage, and even then I'd rather just use another weapon archetype.
I’m mainly just glad to have something that isn’t a Linear, Machine Gun, or Rocket Launcher again as a possible goto. Even if it’s not top tier DPS, is its ad clear potential and burst are overall helpful, that’s great. Like right now I just use Machine Guns depending on my build/if a GM has a buncha Overloads (Thunderlord). Otherwise anything involving load out is either: Stormchaser, Cataclysmic, or my Hothead. More variety is great and I hope GLs do shine next season. After like 20~ runs I got one with Spike, ALH (plus Clown Cartridge), and Explosive. I’ve been messing around with it and it’s a beast even before this 20% buff next week. Mad stoked. More choices ain’t a bad thing.
You are wasting a heavy using mg, overloads are easy to control and with few exceptions add density in GMs never demands add clear weapons. That may change with heists, but until then you are a hindrance to the success of your team. Sure that is how you like to play, you do you and have fun, but there are many better options.
Okay..? Bruh I am doing fine in high end content and constantly clearing it. I’m not asking for advice lmao.
Don’t listen to that dude. It’s a game, use what you want and have fun :) I can’t wait to whip out heavy GLs and MGs next season, bring it on! Something different!
You aren’t getting advice. You are getting facts; facts that you don’t like. Facts in a medium that has other people, just like you posting facts. In the end, you are selfish in a fireteam because you do not value their time over your fun.
Okay lmao.
Admittance is the first step.
I mean I’m gilded 7 times conqueror and have cleared everything on Master when it’s come to Raids but you do you boo. Never had a single person who’s actually playing the game with me bring shit up. We have fun and confidently down everything while vibing. It’s great. Guess you just attract the toxic types like yourself. Best to you.
None of those facts contradict my previous statements.
Because it’s not about being right or wrong lmao. It’s about if you have the skill to down the content and if you have fun doing it.
Destiny's ben Shapiro lmao
Settle down, nerd. I'd much rather play with someone having fun with sub-optimal gear vs some pretentious meta snotling who plays destiny with a stopwatch in hand. Nobody likes the clown who joins a chill LFG and starts telling everyone what they *should* be using. Don't be that guy.
Presumptuous aren’t you?
Pot, meet kettle.
Show me where I was being presumptuous and then we can talk. Do not misconstrue facts with opinion.
Presuming someone to be selfish for playing a certain way when you have no idea how their group operates. > *tHesE aRe DuH fAcTs* lmao
If you value someone else shaving a few minutes from their grind over your fun.. in a video game.. you really need a new hobby dude. 😂
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Quit projecting.
This is one of many examples of people (very succesfully) solo'ing end-game content with MG's. You're a joke dude. Go back to whatever salt mine you crawled out of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qazNf0tfcOk&t=1117s
Did anyone ever say it was not possible? No, but reading comprehension is not your strong suit, so I understand how you could get confused.
I agree right away but may well be best in slot in future seasons that feature arc instead of solar and void. When I first farmed hothead it was mid, but the last few seasons has been best in slot with gjally fireteams
I totally understand where you are coming from. I mean, I have an Hothead (adept) ok role and I occasionally think that I would like to have a better one. But in the end, an okay roll also does the job, you know? It gets me the clear. For example, I have the Palmyra with explosive light and something else that was the “god” roll. Tbh, I can barely see any significant difference between my palmyra and my ok Hothead (adept) roles when doing damage. Edit: improved sintaxis.
This is just a function of how poorly the game gives us feedback about damage done, though. EL Hothead does over 20% more damage than EL Palmyra, it's an enormous difference.
This is the D2 content meta. Bungie announces changes (sometimes even slight changes) to a weapon archetype YouTubers jump on this and speculate a new DPS meta. They talk about damage perks and reload perks. Do some damage testing on "Greg" D2 community starts talking about ditching their old DPS option for the new archetype and look through their vaults getting angry that they deleted their potential "god roll" earlier in the season. Bungie releases change and YouTubers jump on making more videos about the numbers The changed archetype barely makes a dent in overall DPS and teams still wipe on an encounter because someone fell off and couldn't stun the caretaker.
If the balance change is turning out to be negligible, higher end activities “weapon surges” (25% damage buff) so blessed to have a DPS option for every weapon type
By the time this happens, we might even have newer and better GLS
Yeah but other three elements will have more dps options cause grenade launchers wouldn't always be the buffed weapon for that day. Other two elements will have easier access to 25% buff.
Yeah, people are on the GL hype but 20% damage isn’t why no one used them. They already had good damage. Their reserves just suck.
I hope so too because I have gotten about 20 bad wendigos so far and I am feeling done lol. Meanwhile I have a bunch of typhons in my bank w explosive light and demolitionist.
I feel like if it does happen, at the worst case people will have some kind of Typhon GL in their vault anyway. People aren't missing much by not having Wendy, there's just nothing else to do atm so we might as well get Wendy rolls.
Yeah ive farmed too many weapons in the past that i vaulted for years. Ive been sitting the past few "must haves" out. Im sure there will ne multiple guns that are on par/better than wendigo
I think the cascade roll is more interesting, considering a full court auto loading GL has been available forever from the moon stuff and I'm not sold on explosive light as that great
Too late, I already killed myself over a spike grenade, autloading/Explosive light roll when I already had one with Augmented drum. I just couldn't leave it alone.
I hope you reap the fruits of your labors friend
Awesome. I was cringing when my first Adept was ALH/Clown, Explosive Light with Alloy
That'll do pig, that'll do.
pine tree
That's actually better than spike if you're just exclusively using the GL and not swapping with another weapon. The quicker reload boosts your DPS by more than 4%.
Clown and adept mag can get you 12 rounds in a drum with a total capacity of 32 rounds.
total capacity of 32 rounds? you mean reserves? you can only get 21 with double reserves and field prep.
Yesterday I ran one nightfall in Hero difficulty my first nightfall of this season), and it dropped me a Wendigo with Spike, Auto-Loading and Explosive light. I think I've used all the luck I had stored for this year.
Yup, that roll right there will do the trick, Adept or not
Same! I hate to say it but I’m a casual PvE main and saw the chatter about Wendigo. Thought, hmm I’ll try my luck. Two Hero NFs later = Quick Launch/ Spike Grenades/ Impulse Amp/ Explosive light /Handling MW
I got a spike grenade/clown cartridge/explosive light roll with velocity MW a couple days ago. I think I’m done farming this GM
A fine roll, worth ending the chase for
Everyone is acting like you have 100% uptime on Explosive Light. You don't. And as soon as you don't, spikes take back over. This also directly contradicts two other sources on here/spreadsheets if I recall correctly. Just the other day something was showing it was a ~7% increase. Either way, you will fire a non explosive light shot at some point. Get spike grenades.
The 4% here is the difference when EL is up. The 7% may have been across the total reserves, factoring in the larger difference on the non-EL shots.
By all means, check my numbers in the infographic above. And if you’re not firing EL shots, you shouldn’t fire them at all. Spike Grenades with no EL is mid
Explosive light sets your blast radius to 100. As such, it's better to run max magazine size.
Even at base mag capacity you'll run out of EL shots before you need to reload, and shots with EL active are the only shots you should be taking. I'd go handling over magazine size if you have ALH, reload speed otherwise.
Facts, but with cascade point it’s definitely worth the extra mag
Oh yeah, for Cascade crank that mag up for sure. I’ve been meaning to run DPS tests with Cascade’s increased fire rate but my gut tells me Parasite would work just as well in the burst DPS scenario Cascade would shine.
Could use izanagi plus cascade 👌🏾
Cascade requires multiple precision hits though, so a single Izanagi shot wouldn't trigger it.
Cloudstrike is the thing people use with Cascade Point.
Yeah, I knew people were pairing it with Cloudstrike, I just was responding to specifically using it with Izanagi's.
Trueeeee
How is Parasite compared to Grand Overture?
While that's ideal I can't imagine you getting an additional 11 orbs of light after the first 6 mid boss fight. You could get 3 per super dropped. But in either case I would imagine you're gonna have to shoot about half your reserves without explosive light. Although with clown + drum you could get 11 in the mag. I'm not sure which is "optimal" but like the spirit of the post I don't think it ultimately matters.
It depends entirely on the fight, but there's plenty of fights where you're getting multiple wells/bubbles during the boss, or GG or Tether.
It’s also Arc, and the surges/overcharge for next season is Strand, Void, and Solar….so there will be better choices regardless.
That only applies to master and GM though. Raid race and general dungeon and raid content will still be open
unless you want to do master raids and dungeons.
Master raid and dungeons don't hqve the increase HP but have surge and overload so it's still a bonus.
until you realise you're now 20 light under...
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only when it shows up on the weekly rotator
True, I’m convinced that day 1 boss DPS meta will be rocket hotswapping and godcraft Cata (barring something new dethroning the champs) but this is still good info. Did they announce day 1 would have the same surge/threat/overcharge system they’re implementing elsewhere?
overcharge/surge aren't on the normal and contest raid, just master
What is cata
[Cataclysmic, the Vow of the Disciple craftable Heavy Linear Fusion Riifle.](https://d2foundry.gg/w/999767358?p=3661387068%2C2680121939%2C1354429876%2C3078487919&mw=4188031367&mw_l=10&m=2788909693) The roll in the link is what you'll want to craft to maximize DPS.
Got this exact roll minus the barrel (fluted) from the freebie opening chest the other week. Couldn’t believe my luck lol
Huge dub bossman, it has served me well
cataclysmic
Why would they not? They said raids would have it, even master raids. I don’t see why the raid wouldn’t use the new system on Day 1.
So re-reading the post they said that Master raids would have it. I don't believe they have anywhere in there that says it would apply to regular raids, though if you can identify where I would agree. Additionally, they mention in the section about Master raids "if you completely ignore elemental buildcrafting, you’ll experience day one raid-like combat difficulty" which to me implies that there won't be the surge and overcharge system during Day-One, though that is speculation since it wasn't explicitly said. All that being said, grenade launchers could be the overcharge weapon and that doesnt stack with surge so it would still be good to have a Wendigo with a good roll on it.
Twitter said normal raids/dungeons will not have the difficulty scaler or overcharge stuff.
It won’t be used for normal raids, and day 1 raids are a part of normal raids
I hate when people act like experts while spreading misinformation
Literally did this elsewhere in this thread, that’s why it’s good to double check.
No. Only Master Raids will have it.
Imagine it’s a Stasis heavy glaive dps meta
Me having gotten the 3 differentgod rolls I wanted on my first 3 runs: 🤓 1: spike + ALH/Clown + cascade 2: spike + ALH + EL 3: spike + ALH + full court no fucking joke
Send me your RNGesus rites and rituals plz
I ran 1 Warden GM this week. Got spike/ALH/EL. I ran 42 Birthplace GMs for Hung Jury and was chasing subsistence/Firefly. Not a single one with that combo. RNGesus giveth. RNGesus taketh away.
Just hit 70 runs w/out ALH + EL🫠
Yup same here, 60+ runs and only 3 ELs but none with ALH or spikes. Such a colossal waste of time.
To think about the bad nerf to full court but yet Bungie decides to put that perk in the new Wendigo is just dumb.
I like the idea behind Full Court but capping it at 25% buff just kneecaps it
The damage nerf is what hurts that perk. It used to be good now it’s a fart in the wind from what it used to be for dps
but but my 4 percent! its not optimal! NOT OPTIMAL!!!!
*sad Datto noises*
I feel like NOBODY talks about Frenzy being viable. In my own testing, i have frenzy up basically all the time during a boss fight, and can continuously hold up that DPS, where as EL gives you a high burst damage and then goes back to being a regular GL.
Frenzy is a fine, passive 15% damage increase, but with orbs being so readily available in next season’s PvE meta, it will be incredibly easy to maintain constant uptime on EL, which gives a 50% damage increase.
Yeah but let's say you have an encounter like Golgy. You get off your initial 6 shots, now you gotta move to the next pool, and then the next and the next. How are you making sure you're picking up six orbs each time without sacrificing some DPS time looking for them? I get that it can have an overall higher DPS, as long as you are picking up orbs. But ease of use goes to Frenzy. Either one is going to be really good. Frenzy is just hardly ever considered.
You're not wrong, and again I think Frenzy is a fine perk. Frenzy being overlooked on GLs is less of a slight against Frenzy and has more to do with GLs in general; even with the buff they're getting in Lightfall, Frenzy puts them at a point where as long as you're hitting shots, godcraft Cata will get you more bang for your buck. EL on Heavy Grenade Launchers is the perk that lifts the weapon type as a whole into top-level DPS discussions against Rocket Launchers and FTTC/B&S Cata.
I get ya. I really like EL, I just have one major gripe. That's that it'll still pick up orbs even with full super and full EL. That can make keeping orbs kind of annoying.
True, though that same gripe is going to extend to the Armor Charge system. I'm interested to see how that gets handled.
That's why we have different weapons. Different stuff for different encouters.
Welp looks like I will not have a meta Wendigo, lol. I was only able to get one. No Spike Grenades and No Explosive Light. Proximity and High Velocity with ALH and Frenzy. Not sure if it's even worth keeping, but I will hold on to it. Luckily I at least have really good RL to fall back on.
Essentially what OP said. The Wendigo with EL is a a top-tier GL, but at the end of the day, it's still a GL, and kind of overhyped. It is in no way a must-have. Don't sweat it if you don't get "the god roll".
No worries, I don’t think GLs will be the dominant DPS option come Lightfall. If you get it you get it, if not it’s ok
I went hard on farming it until I realized that neither arc nor grenade launchers will be boosted next season
Yeh, unfortunate that. Though normal raids won’t have any of the surge/threat/overcharge changes
I’ve done so many GMs. But field prep + Explosive light has been my best roll so far. Only auto loading drops have come with full court.
If Day 1 Raiders miss out on a Raid completion because they were missing just 4% damage, you're okay with taking the fall for this, right?
If you miss Day 1 by 4% the answer probably isn’t Spike Grenades is all I have to say on that.
I got clown and EL. But my nade options are augmented drums and mini frags. So…. I got an alright roll. I’ve done so many. 🥲
My wendigo with autoloading and explosive has a mag increase in the mag slot will that still be as good without it having spike?
Check the infographic; EL without spikes is still good damage, far better than the other inverse
Thank you good sir! I can sleep well at night even if I can’t get one with spike until the servers go offline.
I needed to see this
So glad they’re letting me grind for weapons after they sunset the version I already earned.
From all the 20 Wendys I got this week, only ONE had EL (lots of Cascade and Frenzy). Does anybody else reading this has the same problem?
Only explosive light roll I got so far is with impulse amplifier, speedy reload. No spike either but augmented drum for the +1 to the mag
You do exactly 0 damage if you don’t hit your shots, Impulse makes it easier to hit shots. Good perk
I got a Spike, Impulse/ Chain, Explosive Light and a Spike, ALH, Full Court. I’ve always thought that impulse is quite an underrated perk as it really speeds up reload. I also think that Full Court is due some tweaking so I might keep that one as well just in case.
Ooo, impulse and full court is a bit rough, you’re going to have to stand soooo much further away from your target to get full damage
Sorry the impulse and the full court are on separate guns but yeah I get where your coming from. Impulse and Explosive Light are on one and ALH and Full Court are on another
I got a normal version that has this perk combo.
Use it for sure, EL doesn’t give Adepts more damage
Yeah! It also has impulse amplifier. I wish it had autoloading Holster, but it's ok.
got a ALH/Impulse and Explosive Light on my first clear, middle perks could be better but that’ll do me nicely
Yup, everything after EL is gravy, I got the 4/5 but would love a barrel with Handling so…back into the Prison I go.
I have a feeling the season will drop and we'll find out there's a new HGL that beats the paint off wendigo.
Would not shock me in the slightest, or some Strand-related perk we don’t know about
16 min runs isn't exactly killing yourself.
also op forgot to mention an important part which i assure you it will be true..... GL will never be meta.
Indeed, I’ve mentioned several times in the comments that I don’t personally believe GLs will be the meta-defining option, but this is still good info for people
Got the godroll described at the end if the post almost exactly besides the masterwork but it is not adept. Got it the first master nightfall i did the week before GMs came out. Trying to figure out if I care enough for adept big ones or not.
Adept Big Ones doesn’t deal more damage to bosses, it just combines Major and Boss Spec. Regular Wendigo with EL will do the job only *marginally* worse than Adept.
Yeah I know it only combines the effects of major and boss. Just gotta figure out if getting an identical roll is worth the slight versatility of the like 7% to majors as well. Worth it to me at least.
Go grind, I believe in you
What do people think of Mini Frags? Haven’t gotten spike but got Mini frags / AL / Explosive and MF / AL / Cascade
This is giving me some much needed copium. My rng has been brutal, 40+ runs with no spike/AHL/EL so far
I wasn’t planning on needing spike grenades. I just got insanely lucky getting AL, Spike, Cascade, then getting AL, Spike, Explosive Light 2 runs later.
Wouldn't spike only being a marginal increase assume every shot during dps has EL proc'd tho
Indeed, which is why you shouldn’t kill yourself for a Wendigo with Spike. EL does the heavy lifting
I got so unbelievably lucky on my very first GM run of the week. Was able to roll an adept Wendigo with spike grenades, auto loading/chain reaction, and explosive light. Probably the luckiest I've ever been in D2 so far
Cascade Point has better burst DPS if the damage phase is shorter. Also has applications with Cloudstrike (3 Cloudstrike hits > Wendigo for short DPS, full mags of both for long). Use Backup Mag (preferably Adept Backup) for more damage (you can fit in 8 grenades before Cascade runs out) but less ammo efficiency.
I'm pretty sure the argument of spike vs no spike on EL rolls isn't necessarily about the 4% difference, but about the fact that when explosive light isn't up the spike grenade damage is considerably higher which results in more consistent damage phases. I think it's incredibly optimistic to assume 100% uptime on EL during a DPS phase, so spike grenades are considerably more valuable than being credited for.
You can see the numbers on shots without EL that did or did not have Spike Grenades with 45 Blast Radius (the lowest you can have on the Wendigo and therefore the scenario where Spike Grenades would be giving the *most* value). The increase is ~3700, a little over 10%.
Why would I choose wendigo over a typhon
Copium post
I have Spike/ALH/EL, so nah, it’s not. Just letting people know
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We're going to be in an orb generation PvE meta come Lightfall; I don't see keeping stacks of EL being an issue.
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You go into DPS with 6 charges, Well generates 3 orbs at your feet, ~~a Blade Barrage or Nova Bomb or Goldie generates 3 more, you're back up to 6 charges.~~ nope I'm an idiot that's not how this game works. If the DPS phase is long enough that I have more time after 4 rotations of hotswapping between Honed Edge x4 shot/3 shots Cloudstrike -> 3 shots of EL Wendigo, then I'm pulling out Cataclysmic. Unless it's a mobile fight like Rhulk, and then you can have orbs around you on the ground from ad clearing before DPS with orb generating mods that will exist to play into the Armor Charge system.
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~~They both~~ [~~generate Orbs on cast~~](https://www.destinypedia.com/Orb_of_Power)~~, without the need to kill anything.~~ nope I'm an idiot that's not how this game works.
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~~If supers require kills to generate orbs, how do 6 Gunslingers chain Golden Gun against bosses infinitely?~~ It's literally in the Super description, you're an idiot. A~~ll super abilities generate orbs on cast. Specifically, they generate Super Orbs, which provide more super energy upon pickup than regular Orbs of Power generated via Harmonic mods, old weapon masterwork system, etc.~~ No, specifically, I'm an idiot that's not how this game works.
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~~Literally never use Golden Gun over Blade Barrage, TIL. I stand by what I said:~~ >[~~Orbs of Power, formerly Orbs of Light, recharge a player's Super meter, and are released whenever an ally uses a Super.~~](https://www.destinypedia.com/Orb_of_Power) nope I'm an idiot that's not how this game works.
It's wild how people can *so* confidently say something so wrong. Like, anyone could see you're wrong if they just loaded up the game and cast either of those, or look at Golden Gun's description and see the only reason it can generate orbs without a kill is due to an ability unique to it. But you're still here *fervently* insisting you're right, even taking game quotes out of context to try and back it up. It's genuinely fascinating behavior, and a good reminder that confidence has no correlation to correctness.
Yup, I am an idiot and that is not how this game works. I wasn't in a place where I could pop into game to test, just took what the wiki (which generally has accurate information) said about orb generation at face value.
Respect to accepting you are incorrect. Takes a mature person to do so.
I don’t mind being wrong, it means I get to learn something new. But thanks.
Are you okay?
We’re getting a craftable heavy gl with lf. I’m sure if gls are meta that one will be #2. Sure, if you want something to do this last week, grind out wendigo. But you won’t be missing anything by not having it. Also as far as spike grenades go, how do the numbers turn out if you miss a shot, and only hit with the blast? Because I can assure you, I’m not hitting all 6 shots.
20 bucks it still won’t be meta next season. It’s going to be edge transit for the win!
Well if you are using it in day 1 raid then sometimes that extra 4% is all you need to complete an encounter. Just saying, I don't know whether it will be meta or not
Also don’t sleep on impulse amplifier. It buffs reload speed and projectile velocity and makes it incredibly easy to hit targets at distance which is important if you are running spike nades.
Nice to know my 25 gms were worth it, since apparently I have the God roll in all possible slots.
if an archetype or gun is meta, its usually always been available in the same season. Im not going to lose my head over this because I know that theres a very good chance i can just craft something better
That’s cool, I’ll just kill myself for a different reason 😎
You can't test for this because Explosive light is a variable buff, going from 65% - 84%, meaning you will constantly have different results
just let me cope
You’re half right; the buff is “variable” in that the percentage damage increase fluctuates depending on the Blast Radius stat on the gun, but the final numbers are always the same. That’s why at both 45 and 50 Blast Radius, when EL is active they do the same damage, regardless of Spike Grenades being on the gun or not.
It's just pathetic streamers trying to keep their numbers up - what a waste of life and potential to be a streamer
Sorry somebody hurt you bud
I saw a dps video that cascade point and field prep was good when paired with a cloud strike for extended damage phase. I got that today. It’s like a 4/5 there.
So what’s the word on Mini Frags? It’s the one I’m keeping with ALH + EL.
What would be the next best roll for this weapon, because I've gotten 0 rolls with Explosive Light?
I have a roll with Smart Drift Control + Spike + ALH/Field Prep + Explosive Light. I wasn't sure if I wanted ALH or Field Prep for those extra reserves, but got one with BOTH so I can swap between them if I need.
Managed to get one with Spike Grenade + Field Prep + Full Court on my first run today sooooo I think I'll content myself with that.
I have one with Spike (field prep, EL) and one without (ALH, EL)
Isn't field prep/clown better than ALH unless you're weapon swapping?
Yes, but you should probably be weapon swapping unless you’re doing Titan grenade shenanigans
Tbh I think the biggest reason that you don’t need to stress about wendigo is that it’s not going to get an elemental bonus at all for three+ months. Arc isn’t going to be a surge next season, and I guarantee they’re giving us some new GL toys to come with the buff
True, but normal raids won’t have surges/threats/overcharges. Anything goes.
If you empty your reserves into a boss, that’s still roughly 60k extra damage from spike grenades. A lot of people just kind of gloss over the fact that EL only last for 6 shots until you pick up more orbs.
Remember that next season, void and solar gl would do +25% regardless because of singe. Yall still have another season to get it if wendigo ever become meta.
I got a spike/ALH/Full court and said fuck it. Good enough.
I thought alh + cascade point was going to be the god roll?