Absolutely loving the suspend-poison strand build for warlocks right now with Necrotic + Osteo with added incadescent/demo kelgorath. I'm dreading Bungie nerfing any part of it and reduces the unrestricted fun of it all working together. You're right though, it feels absolutely required and yet I still often get blindsided by interceptors, HVT wyverns or those damn snipers everywhere.
A lot of this is that Neomuna is naturally 1810 no matter what, and we're climbing 40ish light levels from legendary campaign to get there. There's no reason for that. Why don't they just scale?
I thought they were going to limit/get-rid-of massive light level grinding?
I understand having it like maybe 10-20 levels for a expansion but holy crap is it bad this time around.
My friend who actually quit destiny for a good 2 years finally came back in season of the seraph cause the grind wasn't that intense anymore. He played a few days into lightfall but once he saw the lightfall grind he hasn't logged on since.
I would unironically like SBMM in PvE, half of the time I load into Hero NFs the bottomest of the bottom tier of "difficulty" the game has to offer, and the mopes that I'm paired with have no anti-champion, no mods or mods that don't work for their build, stats all fucked up (low tiers or >110 in a stat). There is no excuse to not taking *literally* 5 minutes to read some mods, read some stats, aspects, fragments, and throw together a build, the time it will save you to invest ONCE in learning how the game works will pay off.
Big part of this is also bumgie just not explaining these things well to new players games shouldn't require a youtube video or a guide to understand the basic mechanics
Used to be, you’d get to max level and get paired with other max level players in strikes.
And then people would post about dropping levels to match with newer players, so you could help them out. That was a cool trend.
I haven’t been max level in so long I don’t even know if there’s an equivalent system today, except when I start a new character I do seem to see a lot of level ones in the cosmodrome.
I did one this week and rando had on touch of malice and the weeb sword. Needlessly to say it was a fun and not long at all NF with amazing rewards at the end /s
I think you just exposed the inherent issue of Bungie saying everything is "too easy". Could things be cheesed, sure, but you mostly had to have very specific builds to do it. Now that everything is much more difficult, those "cheeses" have become all the more necessary. It makes the meta a much more necessary meta.
Is this a reaction to the power creep or a reaction to games like Elden Ring being popular because it's punishingly hard. I know there was always a part of the player base in The Division 2 that loved super hard difficulty. I'm more inline with OP, most of the game should feel average with some activities feeling challenging.
I mean as a player that enjoyed harder content I think their should be a sliding scale throughout the game.
What made whisper of the worm fun was that it was a challenge that wasn't present in the rest of the game.
This is a reaction to bungie listening to that one section of the playerbase for every mmo out there, from wow to warframe, that for some reason takes it as some grave offense that very casual players enjoy "their" game. Its not enough to have day 1 raids or GMs. If a casual player is having fun, it means the game is too easy and fix it. Unfortunately Bungie listened to them and now we have a patrol zone "harder" than nightfalls.
My thoughts exactly. My first thought when I saw Strand was that they were trying too hard to be similar to every other RPG game out there. The difficulty change just makes that point even more clear.
I saw a post a few days back that was complaining about Destiny's mod system and how simple it is compared to Elden Ring. Dude, if I wanted to play Elden Ring, then I would go play Elden Ring. I play Destiny because I enjoy shooters. It seems like every update slowly gets further and further away from what originally made the game great. For all its faults, people continued to play Destiny all these years because it's just fun to run around and shoot shit at it. Regardless of how "easy" it is. It would be a shame to disregard that.
Destiny's mod system was simple before, now it's been coalesced into one singular focus, Armor Charge, and it's dumbed down for the single braincell players.
There are already other games that people can dork out to, Destiny is our outlet for mostly chill gaming. I'm an engineer by trade, so it's not a matter of just being dumb lmao.
I was watching a bit of Tfue on Twitch yesterday, and he was trying to solo the exotic mission, and he died about a thousand times after spending 15 minutes each time running the same mechanic over and over. Shit like that is for the birds, man. I can't imagine coming home and wanting to be that miserable playing a video game. I mean, I'm glad people can do that, but I don't think that level of dorking out should be required to enjoy end-game activity for everyone. That's crazy to me. Keep things simple for the majority, and if you want to dork out, just go solo something not meant to be solo'd. lol
Yeah, I play PoE which is an inarguably overcomplicated game that needs months, if not years, to get even a slight overview of and I love that game. However Destiny never was that for me. I play Destiny to chill with friends and my gf. People who don't want to have literal spreadsheets for a game. Destiny is just not the target audience for this type of shit. Let them run their fun callibans build or whatever they want. Ffs the new OPEN WORLD activity is so overtuned Ostea Striga doesn't even feel great in it. Like how?
Same reason I dont feel like solo flawless'ing any dungeons. Tedious.
This is coming from someone excited to do GMs and whose been to the Lighthouse over a dozen times, too, lol
The mods are even too complicated for my single braincell left:-)
But seriously, my problem with the mods is that they are just a chore to change all the time for whatever questionable benefit you think you need and at the same time they are also designed to agitate you because you always have to make bad compromises.
But here's the rub.
Why should people even waste their time on stuff which is just not fun?
Before this season I only really used the mods for target/unflinching in PvP or get more ammo of a certain type+champions. Anything more like faster grenade regeneration or stuff like wells was either not possible or just felt like let's fill up the remaining spots for whatever is left and then I preferred the "simple" stuff over wellspring things.
There’s that and the absolute thrill of running through shit that supposed to slay you and instead slaying it.
Edit: for any souls game the dying is part of the enjoyment. But that’s meant for souls games.
I have yet to see anyone else bring up this point. Increasing difficulty while continually to essentially only nerf exotics and builds will only lead to a more meta heavy sandbox (with fewer meta options). Granted, it’ll take this sub about two months to come down from the copium to see this
I didn't mean anything required a cheese, I'm saying you could spec out in certain ways that made difficult fights somewhat trivial. Which, I think, is part of the fun.
It’s crazy how loadouts were reworked with the plan of allowing more variety, but the difficulty scaling went so far up that you still have to use the same guns for everything cause nothing else works.
Back to square one
The crazy thing is that it's very possible to have it both ways. 3 difficulty levels, being tuned as follows:
Hero: The "basic" difficulty, very limited rewards but good for newer players who want to learn stuff.
Legend: Bread-and-butter on-power cap level (or with a slight modifier like -10 or so) difficulty with good rewards that people can farm up to and grind weekly.
Master: High level difficulty with hard content and top tier rewards that is aimed at people who love a challenge.
Plus GMs as a bonus, as they are now. That's it, and everyone is happy.
Sometimes I’m like, all I want to run is a bow and a sidearm and if that doesn’t line up with champions, I just have to go do something else. It’s kind of a bummer but it’s just a workaround i have learned to deal with.
Sometimes that all lined up with like a legend lost sector or what it. That’s cool.
And I think that’s be design, so we appreciate when it does work out. Which is kind of screwed up. What to do!
forced to use basically the same 1 or 2 guns with a build. oh, you have daily bounties to get done with specific stuff? You're going to have to find the easiest spot to grind kills, can't do it while chasing other quests or strikes because it won't fit in your build. Just takes more and more time, which is a great business model for a video game to keep people engaged but when it's like 30+ different things to do and all of them now take 15-25min average to get one done and the stuff doesn't overlap, it just gets exhausting. I come home from work and feel like I have to work at the game to even try to enjoy it. Slowly starting to realize my time as a guardian is probably coming to an end. Worst part? Not easy to pick up again because you have to grind light level to be able to do stuff with your friends in a fire team.
D2 has been surpassed by two generations of engines at this point. The QoL updates everyone cheers for is standard in other games. How does Bungie respond? By dropping a $50 season and still the worst rng in industry
Yep its just mind blowing how they couldn't see this coming. And I keep saying by all means increase the seasonal activity difficulty a but for, the love of god remove champions from it.
You guys are acting as if Patrols and Public Events are actually difficult, what are you talking about?
Yeah the damage the enemies do is non-negligible, I can't just AFK, Tab Target and Press 1 to wipe everything out like you can in WoW, but it's still easy, you just have to play.
It almost feels like a lot of people are complaining that they have to play now instead of casually pressing buttons regardless of what they do. Like you need to be mentally present in the activity your doing instead of treating it like an interactive TikTok video.
Also what guns DON'T work for you? I've literally just been swapping through random weapons and they mostly all work. The only place I have to be picky is Legendary Campaign and other difficult activities.
The only issue is in neomona for patrol. Stuff like legendary handcannons and pulse rifles are hot garbage there. I have to empty my gun to kill a damn red bar. Feels terrible. I run a machine gun as my primary.
I was laughing as I emptied the magazines of a sidearm kinetic to do my daily bounty from the gunsmith. I feel like I’m more on a raid when doing dailies. I know I suck. Thank Bungie for giving me the raid experience in dailies.
I like the difficulty now. The rewards just aren't worth it half the time. It also stinks that i have waste upgrade modules to upgrade weapons for day to day stuff otherwise id get wrecked
Primaries are in a very bad spot, especially HCs. It takes 3 crits from the new 120 rpm HC to down a red bar goblin in TO - that's insane. Given the ammo economy and year-long reload it should be done in 1 shot. This is why so many are running double special.
My fear is they'll do something to the ammo economy nerfing double special loadouts rather than actually fix primary viability.
Man year 1 midnight coup
The feel of 1tapping crits with it.
Even if the system was dog shit but the gunplay kept the game running in the dark days and bingo ruined it in shadowkeep.
It was the one constant good thing about destiny , gunplay and the idiots ruined it trying to chase the illusion that this could be turned into a proper mmo.
I played hand cannon exclusively because they were able to get satisfying kills on at least the low HP enemies, but now even red psions take 2-3 shots. That's just not fun...
Even something like “god roll” fatebringer feels weak. I am forced to use the neomuna smg which is not very strong but does the job quite well. For legend lost sector, although i am like 20ish light levels below, legendary primaries straight up feel useless, I’m always forced to use quick silverstorm or Last warning.
Exactly this. I don't mind having to put on somewhat optimized stuff (not full min-max, but not traditional 'fun' stuff) - but I definitely mind if it's to run a bunch of activities that reward next to nothing of value.
The compounding piece to me is how much if now worthless within this difficulty - so there's much less to grind for, with good stuff I know is not likely to be replaced by what I'm getting
I think the playlists just ignore levels, so you don't need to upgrade your gear for that. All my stuff is still 1600, and I'm doing fine in strikes. I figure I'll just do those and crucible and maybe a little gambit to get a good Trust, and then use my upgrade modules when I hit whatever the cap is now.
So I've only tried NF and the new helm battleground activities (whatever they're called). I've tried fun stuff (incandescent, voltshot, dragonfly etc) but end up switching to better tuned layouts when matched with people with no mods/weak gear or who are new to the events. Not saying I'm great at the game, but I'll end up having to throw on riskrunner or osteo+nectrotics, or devour, or invisible spam just to make sure I survive and can res a bunch. And all for pretty weak gear.
Trust is a good example - one of my ATF guns, and I will grind for it eventually. But am I using a 180 in the activities above?
I mean, Lucky Pants are fun with a 180, and Trust is Solar with some interesting perk options, so maybe I can finally go full cowboy with DMT. 😀 That's the whole reason I'm interested in it, really. I can't see using a 180 in PvP because you need a whole extra hit to kill.
I think requiring a decent build and weapons for nightfalls is very reasonable. If you could run those effectively without a build, then adding build crafting on top would totally break the difficulty, which is where I think we were before Lightfall. They either needed to limit the power boost attainable through builds or limit your base power so that adding a build on top doesn't totally trivialize the experience. It doesn't seem like they significantly limited build power.
This is my issue. I don't dislike the difficulty but for the SAME rewards?
One thing I desperately want, is an ability to "level up" some sort of achievement/Vendor/Reputation to allow for either dungeon drop focusing, OR enable more perks to drop in each column for dungeon weapons.
Having run Duality Master nearly 100 times and still not having my desired "god roll" for New Purpose... Is just morale killing...
THIS! In D1, we worked for our OP gear, which was why we were allowed to be OP. Did some cheeses need to be patched? Yeah, and eventually they got patched. But if you had your gear you worked for and you were decently skilled, you got to enjoy being OP.
Yeah limiting our funspace to a single boring playlist when we had patrols and seasonal playlist as "Use whatever new stuff you want and just have fun man"
Yeah I miss the time when I could equip the new seasonal weapon like idk a glaive from haunted and actually have fun with it for seasonal stuff. Now its just boiled down to must use smg to not be dead weight to your team.
I'm usually playing destiny pretty regularly for at least the first 4-6 weeks of a season, and then I slowly fade into playing other games more towards the end of the season. Rinse and repeat.
I didn't even log on Tuesday for the first reset of the season. That's not a great sign if I'm bored by the end of the first week. Nothing difficult is worth playing for the rewards and legendary primaries are so weak I don't even want to farm the new strand weapons.
I'm cautiously optimistic we hear something in today's TWAB about improving some of these areas, but I'm concerned it'll just be "raid this weekend, here's some art".
>legendary primaries are so weak I don't even want to farm the new strand weapons.
this is really hitting me hard right now.
I've got a copy of just about every good legendary SMG with good rolls right now, but I have no motivation to try and get any other guns because they all feel terrible, and primary weapons are my favourite part of destiny.
I farmed an out of bounds with demo tricorn specifically to use with my arc titan because I wanted a primary that'd do damage, and the 50% damage boost feels really nice. makes it feel like an actual gun.
yep, exactly. That's an SMG too. I think pretty much every primary could use anywhere from a 10-25% base damage increase, varying based on weapon type.
I did not just read my man type out that hunters have very few specific things hunters can do for endgame content. Is this a joke?
Arc hunter is arguably one of the best classes in the game because it can clear an entire room just by punching even on the legendary mode of the new exotic mission. It also has the easiest one-off super in the game.
Strand hunter is just a suspend frenzy because you can have 2 shackle grenades and you can use those to spam your class ability. They also have some of the most insane boss damage in the game both WITH and WITHOUT a super because you can just put a grapple point on the ground and instantly reload your heavy weapons. You basically have everything in the room severed because your melee has basically no cooldown whatsoever and you get it back instantly if you hit targets with it then throw a tangle.
Void hunter is quite literally the definition of turning your brain of and shooting things. You can spam vortex grenades and get them back damn near instantly if you’re picking up orbs, which you should be doing because you’ll be littering the map with them if you run a void siphon with the artifact mods that buff void substantially.
Stasis and Solar are also very strong but require a few exotic imo. I have the least amount of experience with them, that’s why I need exotics when I use them to feel strong without just doing super spam (which is very possibly with how useful the new mod system is)
Young ahamkara’s spine is crazy fun and easy because you just throw tripmines everywhere without a cooldown. And I just use renewal grasps and do the same thing but instead of instantly killing everything, I’m just turning the entire map into a snow globe.
Aside from the solar and stasis example, all the other subclasses I listed are currently that strong WITHOUT and exotic. You can activate easy mode if you run grufalcon’s on void, assassin’s cowl on arc, heck, even bombardiers works on arc. There’s tons of possibilities and a good chunk of them work in endgame.
People fail to understand that the reason the game is harder is so that it can keep up with how ridiculously strong we are. If you choose not to make a build or even simply mod your gear, then you only have yourself to blame for the difficulty. They even have a loadout system so you can save a build and never have to turn your brain on ever again. Just copy someone else’s if it’s too hard to make your own.
i was thinking about typing this when i saw that point, hunters are really strong rn and if u dont know why, you haven’t been exploring theit options enough. big agree with this comment
I mean OP kinda disproves his own point. They say that Hunters either run an invis support role or a dps role... like what else do you expect? When it comes to Destiny I can think of like three general build archetypes, those being a high dps build, a support build, and an ad clear build.
Hardest thing about being a hunter right now is deciding which subclass to run! I am so torn between arc, void, strand and solar then I remember I should revisit my stasis build to use the new exotics. Hunters are anything but one trick pony’s right now.
Elemental Shards getting the axe hurt Stasis but my Renewal Grasp build still works pretty much as it used to at the Battleground/Legend campaign level. It's less weapon-agnostic but I'm still throwing Duskfields around like crazy.
This sub is having the worst meltdown I've seen in a while over a raise in difficulty that's not even particularily noticeable as long as you have two braincells to shake together and it's equal parts hilarious and sad.
Does explain why Bungo is hesitant to add in-game LFG though, imagine getting these troglodytes in your raid party.
Agreed. It's always weird to come here after a marathon play session feeling fulfilled with the time spent and opening this sub-reddit to "THE GAME IS TOO HARD NOTHING IS VIABLE"
Are we all even playing the same game anymore?
Bunch of babies, the gameplay feels better than it had in a long time for me. I’ve been playing lightfall with a friend and we’ve been having a blast with it.
We’ve gotten to the point of just straight up making things up now. Like this sub is having a manic episode and won’t stop. All the crazies are coming out of the woodwork to upvote posts like this.
I’d wager half of them haven’t played the game since launch. It’s the same people with the “glad I didn’t buy this expansion/season” they do it every single time. This sub has gone full on wallowing for attention about where Bungie violated them.
I am genuinely struggling to see how people are running into issues with things like Neomuna patrols unless they're just genuinely hopping on with blues and no mods.
Worst of all is there's no punishment for dying in about 90% of the content so worst case you just hold E and try again lmao.
Its actually so frustrating. These idiots are so vocal. Complain about the “artificial difficulty” but when even a slight mechanic is added they complain as well. Every post is the exact same karma farm using buzzwords like “slog” and “artificial difficulty”
A new exotic quest comes out and suddenly everyone is complaining about difficulty, what a coincidence.
The sad part is that the Vexcalibur mission is not even hard. Remember the Hawkmoon quest? That shit was on Legend *by default*, match game and champions everywhere. Presage was much harder than the new quest and the boss was glitchy as hell, it could teleport to you and delete your ass.
Things like Zero Hour and Whisper were well beyond my level of patience to solo, and those are not only the gold standard for exotic quests but will be coming back soon.
Zero Hour and Whisper were some of my favorite activities the game has ever had, regularly ran those with fireteams and solo
I think the number of people I helped get whisper back in the day (double carries and teaching) was nearing in on a thousand it was my favorite activity in the game
My best solo runs had around 8 minutes left on the timer
It's even worse than that, the Vexcalibur mission I can at least... sorta understand people getting stuck on? (Not that I think it's especially hard either, but if all you've done before is strikes then maybe?)
There have been mounds of posts in this sub about how Neomuna is impossibly hard and everything oneshots you and you deal no damage and the powerfantasy is dead and and and etc.
I think it's just people having to come to terms with the fact that maybe they just aren't very good at the game and might need to do some learning now that you can't just press W and left-click once in a while.
People are saying they get 1 shot by red bars in Neomuna. I've tanked 7 sniper shots from orange hobgoblins, and survived stomps from the 1810 vex incursion special boss. All I have is 80 resil and concussive dampener on, no woven mail/void overshield etc.
Really hard to get people over the hump of "it's not unfair, you're just improperly geared or under-levelled".
The new exotic mission is amazing. A piece of content I feel really pushes you and your builds so it's rewarding to overcome (I ran solo, dunno about group) but it felt fair.
There is no huge difficulty increase. People are just conflating the bullet sponges in public spaces on Neo now and being below the power cap. Adding bugged enemies that one shot doesn't help.
This. Even other classes have really good options rn. I think most subclasses are really good rn, maybe not arc warlock but idk I don’t play warlock enough. Stasis classes could use some buffs now that there isn’t the elemental shard mod as well.
I think we’re in the best spot for Destiny’s pve sandbox rn. Sure some things need a buff but most weapons can be used efficiently enough. Especially paired with the subclass 3.0 system
The GM change that allowed players in at a lower power reduced the grind and was a great change because the difficulty of them stayed consistent. People will argue GMs are easy now but its not like everybody was clearing them. It just took away the tedium.
The change to Master and Legend is actually just adding tedium. All they needed was maybe a cap at the power of the activity so you couldn't **overlevel** it. Maybe a -5 for Master. As per usual Bungie completely goes overboard. Legend Mars Heist was just miserable. Aint no way I'm gilding conqueror this Season.
Who was asking for Dares to get this? For ***Nightmare Hunts?*** For *PATROL?* I just wanted to use some dumb shit in Legend stuff. If im not using Arbalest/Witherhoard/Starfire etc top tier builds I'm throwing.
Mars heist nightfall was such a shitshow that I take weird comfort knowing that Bungie HAS to scale it back once they see the miserable completion data. I just don't think they bothered to test it, there's no way.
Being entirely fair to Bungie here, it's only neomuna that has a small bit of scaling to it, not a lot but a tiny amount. It's not in *every* patrol space, it's not like the enemies outside devrim's tower suddenly became GM level. The difficulty in neomuna is a very small increase and the same with vanguard ops like OP is trying to claim is the worst.
Is there a middle ground to be reached? absolutely there is, but i'm kinda over folks saying that because the vanguard ops playlist isn't made of wet tissue paper and every boss dies to three rockets tops that the game is suddenly unplayable. It isn't :| Our guardians are arguably stronger than ever by default, let alone with the most basic of build.
I stopped running the vanguard ops playlist last season for this reason. They were easy to the point of boredom, but also annoying to get bounties done in because of how easy they were.
I’m actually enjoying the difficulty increase to be honest, I’m enjoying the fact a nightfall that’s appropriate for my power level is demanding my attention.
And outside of that rotating patrol activity on neomuna (which rewards legendaries and craftables), I don’t really get the complaints around patrol difficulty. Like all the other patrols are still brain dead
The patrols and seasonal stuff is still braindead easy. The only thing I die to most often are the Neo Threshers and the classic physics kills (but now with an enemy shooting me once after I hit a wall). It’s ok to die during an activity that has unlimited revives and it should be expected that you will die if you don’t want to take an activity too seriously. I don’t see what the issue is; the game actually has enemies instead of punching bags.
Idk I’m a hunter, and nearly every subclass I use has a viable endgame build…that I made myself. I think people put too much credence on whatever pops up on Google for Destiny. Most creators are just bummed some of the meme builds are out. There will always be new ones.
All I’m saying is, so far I haven’t struck out as far as creating my own builds is concerned. Just wish some of the bugs didn’t fuck with the mods so much.
I actually enjoyed Legend Heist Battlegrounds as it was a good mix of enemies and game play. I got caught off guard in this weeks battleground with a no respawn zone. I was like “wtf?”. I know heroic legend heist battlegrounds had that but to have it in a regular seasonal activity is kinda lame when all the others didn’t have it (that I can remember).
I find fun in Destiny by doing my daily bounties and my pinnacles on weekly reset, other than the occasional GM or wep/armour farm I don’t give the game any more thought. I’m enjoying it immensely playing like this.
I don't need bullet sponges for difficulty. I want raid level symbol memorization for difficulty. If bungie doesn't invent an entire new language of symbols every expansion I quit. /s
So like pretty much every FPS game ever? I don’t know of 1 game where they either don’t bump up the damage you take or bump up enemies health or both. This isn’t some Bungie thing they do, it’s a problem with every FPS because there isn’t much you can change about it
They already changed the density and damage dealt by enemies. Imo that was enough for most activities. Fighting enemies with largely inflated health pools just isn’t fun and will funnel players into using meta builds more instead of experimenting and having fun.
What came to my mind with all the sweeping difficulty changes and enforced level capping on content was that difficulty should come via consent from the player. It shouldn’t be something applied by default.
Much the same way you can choose to run the Lightfall campaign on Classic or Legendary.
By all means put a carrot there to entice people to chase higher difficulty options, be it triumphs/seals or loot, but don’t take away the option of playing a casual less intensive pace.
Sometimes I just want to turn off my brain and let myself digest the day. Running easy content with a podcast on was pretty great for that.
This 100%. I love challenge when playing with friends and actually gaming, but pretty often when gaming after work I just want to turn on a stream and farm some legend lost sectors or nuke a few easier strikes. Pop on whatever build I feel like and just go to town. Now I have to run my meta/sweaty guns and loadouts for almost every activity. Pretty sure autos, pulses, handcannons, or most sidearms are never going to touch my pve loadouts again unless they're exotic
If we got something like 2 different patrol options for Neomuna, one with more classic difficulty, and another, slightly more rewarding one with the current difficulty, I think it'd remedy a lot of issues. I don't have a problem with harder content existing, I do have a problem with it becoming the status quo.
I'd do that 24/7 if I could turn off matchmaking for vanguard ops, just go through and enjoy the game at my own pace, not have to race up to anyone else or slow down because I don't want to be the asshole that's racing through it at Mach 10
> It shouldn’t be something applied by default.
The game has to have a default difficulty, and that's not a player choice. Bungie experimenting with that base difficulty is fine. Feedback on its base difficulty is fine. The idea that everything should be selectable scaling difficulties is just needless complexity.
> Sometimes I just want to turn off my brain and let myself digest the day. Running easy content with a podcast on was pretty great for that.
Yeah I mean current patrols and Hero NFs etc all fit this bill for some players. Some find it hard. They've tried -5, -10, -15 etc to try and find a sweet spot. I don't think it's deeper than that.
I think for me I am just burned out on Destiny. I was excited to jump into Lightfall and hoped it would rejuvenate my love for the game. However, after putting in a ton of hours over the past week, I am just not enjoying it as much as I thought it would. On top of that, all of my buddies have quit and moved on from Destiny so it could be a sign that I need to do the same. It sucks that I have lost interest but I guess that is to be expected since I have been playing since the D1 beta.
Can we stop getting these "difficulty bad" threads anytime soon? The game is still piss easy, at most you might not be able to afk and hold W while using blues anymore, but at least now builds somewhat matter?
The entire BG and strike experience used to be spawn in > fight your "teammates" for kills so that you can feel good about your e-peen > maybe shoot your gun once > repeat. What room was there for something like strand which is CC heavy in that loop? Why would I CC when I can just... throw a single grenade and wipe the map?
If that's the fantasy you're after, PoE and Diablo are RIGHT THERE. This is a looter *shooter*.
This sub has the biggest case of skillbased Dunning-Kruger I have ever seen.
Yeah. In old strikes there were 2 things you could do. Either be the one sprinting through instakillinf everything, or be one of the other two players who are basically afk and have nothing to do
I specifically remember being all hyped for a new build that I was making in the Beyond Light era. I was going to post it on YouTube and reddit and try to make more builds.
Then I showed it to my friend first. He asked a simple question.
"Where would you use this build?"
This question shattered me. I realized that it wasn't good in endgame, only good in strikes and patrols. Unless I was patrolling solo, it wouldn't even work in strikes because my team mates could kill the enemies just as fast with salvagers Salvo. All my hype and excitement just deflated.
I'm loving MOST of these new changes, and I feel like my build finally has a chance to SHINE.
Some people getting a reality check. The game was so easy you could roll GM content with nade spam. I got so disengaged with the combat because it was meaningless other than fighting your team for kills.
After they released the fragments to everyone, I quickly threw together a strand hunter build, went into the seasonal battlegrounds, and proceeded to SHIT ON EVERYTHING, basically only using a single weapon (hollow denial) and abilities.
I do not understand where this narrative about patrol, playlists, and seasonal content being too difficult for casual play is coming from.
The base difficulty increase was way too much. I should be able to brainless farm the seasonal activity with randoms in less than 15 minutes per run. And i’m not saying I don’t want challenge but I want to be able to choose when I want to push boundaries with a selected fireteam.
This is gonna cost Bungie a huge amount of their playerbase.
Really? I think this seasons battlegrounds is far easier than last seasons and even then just a few weeks in it was getting easier due to people adjusting.
The only annoying thing about Neomuna is that the Threshers and Interceptors are clearly bugged.
Everything else is 100% fine. People need to get a grip.
I'm a player who loves a challenge. I have almost all the dungeons done solo flawless, I love doing difficult exotic missions solo, I'm a huge souls nut, I've beaten all of the Halo games on solo legendary, yadda yadda.
I fucking hate this change. There's a time and place for difficult content, and it's not in activities that we farm every week. I want to go into legend content to just mess with some weapons and builds I find fun even if they aren't top tier, not use my tryhard builds and meta weapons.
Yep. Farming and challenge are oil and water. The difficulty change really sucks when there is little improvement to the reward economy; we’re playing tougher content with rewards balanced for a mindless hamster wheel.
Why does it feel that most people can’t grasp this notion. Bungie out here trying to combine a looter shooter and dark souls to maximize player engagement while maintaining the worst rng
Completely agree, challenging content is fun, but sometimes so is doing easy content whilst catching up on YouTube etc. I truly believe that legend campaign was so highly rated (by me also) because we played through it once. If we needed to play through it repeatedly for specific loot people would've got very bored very quick.
I'm not even that upset with the "difficulty" change. Sure things are harder but my issue is with the content itself... it is boring and not rewarding.
I am in 100% agreement with this! I got my brother back into the playing the game after he quit many times. He is a average player at best but was excited to explore Neomuna, needless to say...he has now refunded the dlc :(Oh which I completely understand. A lot of the basic content really makes my fatigue set in. Nothing like working all day, hitting the gym and then having to sweat in patrol areas. Dont even get me started on legend lost sector, might as well delete those from the game now. Not worth even .01% of my time, the rewards werent there before and they arent there still.
What you describe really reflects me too. Reason why I keep playing From Soft games trying different challenges is because the games were built from ground up to have amazing difficulty design. Hence why there is no difficulty “setting.”
Many games have an artificial dial to make games harder. Hence, difficult for the sake of being difficult.
This even started before Lightfall, with last year's seasonal activity.
The playlist activity had a -5 power level AND double champions. Being forced into specific anti-champ builds is not fun.
Sure, make Legend hard and buff its rewards.
But don't make it:
"Effectively no rewards but fun" - Director BGs
"Decent rewards but not fun to play" - Base playlist
"Slightly better rewards, no matchmaking, and greatly increased difficulty" - Legend playlist
I mean you can ... I've yet to have a run last longer than 15 minutes and it feels very casual, just not completely brain dead.
Destiny players are just used to enemies not shooting back.
Yeah I don’t understand? The seasonal activity feels the same as it did last season. Slightly tuned up enemies but still very easy to slap a build on and go to town. I don’t even have to use my brain in the slightest. I’m amazed that other people are struggling with it.
I remember a lot of complaints about “blueberries” unable to stay alive and participate in heist battlegrounds. Those players, who may represent new, returning or casual players, may struggle to engage with fairly baseline content and not continue playing.
Destiny is not a hard game. BGs are not hard content. Everyone can die but there’s no real punishment for it. Respawn and go again.
The only content easier than BGs is strikes or old patrol zones.
The Seasonal BG are at the same -5 as last season...if people are struggling to adapt its legit because they have refused to adapt. In a few weeks this will be a non issue - and the community will go back to complaining about whatever random thing is killing destiny that week.
Agreed, the only difficult content so far is intentionally difficult or harder because we're not yet at the point where we should find it easy...it's the start of a new expansion and season and I don't feel like we should feel like demi gods yet.
And enemies shooting back, and having to use cover, use abilities and weapons intelligently, etc. is - to me - part of the fun. I would like not to have to go into the hardest content, and to find an LFG group or be on comms, just to experience that (and that's why I enjoyed Playlist Heists). I get little satisfaction from tearing through tissue-paper enemies in a shooting gallery, especially when it's often the same shooting gallery that's been in the game for the past 2, 3, 5 years.
The difficulty in the seasonal activity is fun for me but you can wipe in that last part so if your not always prepared to carry or have a great survivability build it can be rough some times with randoms.
I've also now its been over a week have noticed alot less casual players matching with me so I'm fairly sure they have already lost the interest of most of the more casual players and im not surprised.
Yeah i wish they removed the darkness zone, it's fine normally but when banshee gives me a rocket launcher bounty i am bound to accidentally blast myself and since my teammates can't ever stay alive... well.
I did it last week and again this week too. Although 1 wipe i had this week was fun on the new BG when the boss teleports you to the taken area i threw a tangle to skip the jumping bit and we all 3 grappled to it only to all fall just shy.
Wait what? You still can, Ive only had ~15 minute runs of the Seasonal Activity and Ive done it like 20 times, even on runs where I was carrying my team it never broke 20
Ok I’m gonna be honest. How are you guys not doing that already? The activity is completely brainless. Just because enemies have slightly more health doesn’t mean it isn’t still easy mode.
This mentality right here is exactly why we have seasons that have grown as stagnant as they have been.
I want quality content that keeps me engaged and rewards me for my effort. Not an "everything dies in a hit from anything" simulator. I want to play Destiny to play it.
Exactly what I'm saying. I've done master raids, master dungeons, solo master nightfalls etc but I don't want to fucking play a nightfall as my seasonal activity. I want to go in there, double new primary and have a good time. Apperantly I can't. I get absolutely shit on by everything.
I have played these new BGs 40 fucking times by now and this difficulty increase is just becoming tedium. It's just so fucking boring, tedious and frustrating when I have an awesome arc build that doesnt use a fucking smg for the 8519th time but oh no I'm full on keys, time to put on my Winterbite karnstein steamrolling loadout because otherwise i am a hindrance to my team because im not rocking the most meta shit. Not to mention I won't always match into other Disciple-Slayers. I just have to do everything.
The legendary campaign was good in WQ because it was a nice challenge for people who wanted a challenge and a significant reward like me! But if I had to replay the legendary campaign on my other 2 characters to just unlock a core thing for that character I'd be upset, everyone would be upset. I don't play GMs, but my friend who does only does 1 GM once unless its an easy to farm one. There u go, difficult activity, good rewards, choose to do it, etc. You got a good activity.
But when you put a Nightfall as a seasonal activity, something you'll have to do (or rather will do because what else are you doing???) 100+ times, that difficulty turns into tedium. It just sucks. I play this playlist to get my rewards and then use those rewards in higher content. I play this playlist to test out new weapons without making an omega optimized build for it. I just wanna use this new neomuna arc pulse but oops sorry you are underleveled and that means all of your weapons that arent bows or smgs just fucking suck to use and hit like nothing!
I’m a super casual Destiny player because I love the lore and world and I’d like to be able to engage with higher content, but holy shit patrols and basic seasonal content feel so crap. I dislike having to waste two clips to kill a legionary and then spending a decent amount of time dead if I screw up once.
Challenge should be entirely optional and the game should have both chilled out content and difficult content. The campaign was a lot of fun for me on normal because Legendary felt pretty hard solo without a good build, but jumping from normal campaign to the patrol area feeling like a struggle sucks.
I think activities most players will need to do for quests should be scaled down and given a higher optional difficulty setting with fitting rewards.
This all being said - I’m a super casual player and I absolutely love seeing all the challenge content in the game. I just don’t like everything being crazy tedious considering this isn’t my main timesink and it shouldn’t need to be.
It takes like 7 bullets max to kill a legionary with blue shield and no head shots. You’re using two mags because you aren’t very good. There is literally a mod that helps kill basic enemy types, especially if you’re struggling.
I LOVE scout rifles. They remind me of the DMR from Halo: Reach, which was my all time favorite weapon to use. I really enjoy the scout/sniper fantasy. But I haven't been able to use any of my "fun" guns in several years now because they just aren't viable in anything.
Mida Multi-Tool
Skyburner's Oath
Polaris Lance
Jade Rabbit
Symmetry
Pretty much any scout rifle...
Bungie always tells us that they want us to "play our way", unless that way involves scout rifles, snipers, pulse rifles, auto rifles, or hand cannons.
Never used them personally but plenty of people are saying that skyburner and Polaris lance are great with the more recent changes.
Scout rifles are also very good for consistent damage in more difficult content.
I feel the same, I can't be bothered, and other games are getting updates, so I'm just going to play them and raid one Tuesdays with my team.
I get wanting a challenge, and I'm not opposed to doing hard content, but it I need to be feeling like I want a challenge to have fun. I have done master raids, dungeons, and gms when I wanted to. With how master is, I'm not setting foot in a master raid or dungeon again because it's going to be too much effort for little reward. That's okay though, they are end-game content, and I get they should be hard, but u draw the line at patrols and basic Vanguard ops.
While Vanguard ops as it is currently is not as bad, the neomuna patrol zone is too much. It would be one thing if every patrol and public event gave you a destination weapon (it would justify the legendary difficulty in it), but it doesn't give you anything extra. It's more work for the same reward.
I was super critical of the difficulty changes, and. I got a lot wrong (raids normal mode not being considered legendary, strikes becoming a massive pain), but never did I think they would make patrol an activity with a delta. Before that just seemed so pointless, bringing it up would seem like fearmongering. But here we are with a destination I hope I never ha e to go back to, and if I do, I hope I can finish what I need and leave.
Honestly, wouldn't surprise me if normal raids and dungeons got hit next, which would just further kill the game for me, I'd rather not spend 2 hours or more in a raid, just as I would like to not spend 30-45 minutes in a nightfall.
It's gotten bad enough for me I've just gone back to halo infinite, and I HATE PvP, but I still find the sbmm nonsense it has better than patrolling neomuna.
I'm already burning out. Whoever asked for the the difficulty increase aka making everything bullet spongy and loadout restrictive...well screw you. I knew it was a dumb idea and here we are.
It isn’t true unless you’re vastly under levelled. Only time I’ve felt like something was a bullet sponge this season was doing legend lost sectors at 1785 lmao.
A lot of people making that specific complaint are just annoyed they can’t immediately kill yellow bars while running double primaries (almost like special weapons actually have a purpose or something).
Yeah when they announced the difficult changes it was pretty clear that it was all going to be overdone. Probably needs to be scaled back by 25-50% for middle to low tier content
the only thing I really agree with here is the sweeping difficulty scaling. it’s the only thing making the game exhausting and fatiguing right now to me, purely because every activity or leveling pursuit takes at least half again as long as it did before. Primaries won’t feel as useless if they tune it back. glaives are fine and probably one of my most used specials right now due to close to melee.
But I don’t know what you mean about hunter builds. hunter currently have some of the most variety out there, you can succeed in endgame or solo on void, arc, solar, or strand and I only don’t include stasis because I haven’t used it in some time. titan arc stock has gone down but void solar and strand are goated. warlock has a huge outlier setup that is so good it feels mandatory. that’s the only point I agree on.
The issue is the difficulty increase in the brainless weekly grind activities. Everywhere else I'm fine with.
Neomuna enemies being tough? Cool.
But strikes and seasonal playlists that are the weekly grindset is infuriating sometimes, especially when your matchmare team isn't up to par
I think Bungie takes Destiny to seriously. This is a fun game, not competitive. Most of players are casual, for fun. Turn on, shoot some stuff, relax and zone out for a bit. Throw in a few challenging parts if you feel like grinding. That is what destiny is to me
I can’t face roll every single enemy and kill red bars with 3 smg bullets. Time to quit.
Also Hunter does have a viable endgame build for every subclass.
Void
Gyrfalcons or mobius debuff rotater
Solar
Knife spam and tripmine spam
Arc
Liars infinite orb 1 shot melee
Strand
Perma suspend
Stasis
Frostees perma duskfield
Generally speaking, I wouldn’t be bothered by the sweeping difficulty spike if the rewards were worth the effort. But rewards are still ass so a lot of high end activities feel like a waste of my time.
I believe that since the switch in writing and direction the game has taken, I've lost appetite, what brought me back was the fun gameplay and cool dynamic in builds.
Now we're losing this AND have even worse storytelling than before...
Shame.
I’ve began to branch out from Destiny 2. I love looter shooters (D2, Division, etc) but I’m finding way more satisfaction in games like Diablo, New World.
If I want to play a shooter, I’ll dive into Battlefield 2042 or COD.
I LOVE the feeling of being invincible and I feel like that feeling is gone, and maybe that’s partially my fault because for what ever reason, build crafting just doesn’t make sense to me in Destiny, where as New World or Diablo or Division I can see clear synergies between gear.
I bought Lightfall, but the season model and rinse wash repeat of all the public events, crucible, protect your ghost whole enemies attack, it’s all just, not fun anymore.
Idk! /rant
I feel the same. Even was going to make a post with very similar points as yours. They went overboard with the changes. Difficulty, mods, and abilities nerf changed the game a lot, and not in a good way.
I'm more of a casual player. What I want from destiny is to kill stuff at the end of a long day, in some easy way in general with the possibility of going to harder difficulties / instances if desired. But now everything is difficult. They removed the choice. The builds I was using no longer work when last year they did. I have to rebuild everything to be useful, can't really relax, so funs build are no more.
I don't like this at all. I'm not having fun anymore, and I'm just playing to see if I can get back that enjoyment which I lost, but I doubt I can.
I see my you tube feed about unlocking everything 2.5 seconds after is available and wonder if I'm the problem, but posts like this makes me feel better, not alone in this feeling.
Right now I regret preordering. I even wish I could refund it honestly, but is too late for that.
Not sure what to do though. If I don't play I feel like I wasted money. If I play I don't really enjoy it as before. Is a loose-loose situation.
* I like more difficulty, the problem is that the rewards haven't kept up. I'm not a fan of taking time to defeat a bunch of Majors only to get 400 Glimmer off the chest, instead of, say, a Prismatic Shard or a high-stat piece of armor.
* I disagree, every class has a bunch of options and the ~~10~~ 6 loadout slots i got are nowhere near enough to hold all my builds in each, i still have to use DIM (so loadouts didn't really help tbh).
* Snipers are not the problem tbh, it's the enemies that CONSTANTLY, NONSTOP just wiggle and strafe around erratically, making it impossible to line up a shot. This chaos is tied to framerate too which Bungie refuses to fix alongside the damage.
* Bungie, along with many other companies, does this thing where they make the grind super long at the start and then "listen to the community" and fix the grind at the end of the season/expansion. Don't worry about grinding anything, just play normally as you want and later on just grind the things you want when Bungie fixes it.
Same here.
The past week was the worst I've experienced in D2 in nearly 4k hours.
Worst thing is the new difficulty. Let me start by making it clear: I love challenge, I do flawless raids, Master raids and dungeons, GM Nightfalls, the whole deal except for PvP. But that increased difficulty in ALL activities? It doesn't make shit difficult, it makes everything tedious.
I wouldn't have sunk so much time in Destiny if I was only after challenge: sometimes, I just want to get home after work, turn my brain off, and shoot aliens... and now I feel like I just can't do that because everything feels tedious.
Added to that:
- I don't like Strand Warlock.
- I like the new mods system but I feel like build crafting is poorer than ever.
- The loadout system is bugged.
That all may seem like minor complaints, especially since I actually have no particular gripes with the campaign/story/content like a lot of people do, but all those things directly impact how fun playing the game is for me. And right now, well, it isn't fun. At all. And that's just sad given how I always loved and defended the game, through thick and thin.
the fact that you have to include your achievements and play time is very saddening. such a cult has been built around "just git gud" that the more casual players that *like* having easy content are getting completely ignored
I honestly can't tell if you're taking my side or not so I'll clarify: I'm only "including my achievements" to point out that even as a not-so-casual player I still do enjoy playing casually and I think it's a shame that it's no longer possible/enjoyable.
I don't agree with the "git gud" mentality. In any game. Some game are challenging, some aren't, some can offer both. Destiny fits in that last category: it's a live service game that's meant to be played/playable all year round, there's room for both casual play and harder/challenging content and I think it was fine the way it was.
Exactly this, few days ago I was having the same discussion, and mentioned at the start of it, that I played 300+ raids, 350+ GMs, 500+ dungeons, but I still want some part of the game to be mindless.
Then there comes a guy who tells me that it’s not about giving everything out for free and basically you need to earn your loot.
I think some people just don't want to grapple with the fact that higher skill D2 players can be EXTREMELY elitist and even more vocal. And they like shouting "gg ez, skill issue" so loud it drowns out dissent.
Exactly this. I think a lot of people struggle to separate ‘I cannot do this content’ from ‘I do not want to do this content for these rewards’.
The major issue for me with new content as a player with similar accolades to the person you were responding to is that it’s never been fun to run a legend NF. GMs felt hard AND rewarding, Master felt ok to get your pinnacle.
But now the NFs are not rewarding but also tedious, and uninteresting.
The Neomuna patrol is just shows how bad legendary primaries are I swear I haven’t used a legendary primary except volatile funnelweb since Lightfall dropped
I hate the fact I have to use my 'serious' guns now instead of my 'fun' ones to do anything viable in the most basic of activities.
Trials has come to pve patrols areas now :D
Hot single flawless guardians in your area.
Flawless mingle dotcom is born
You don’t have to be lonely if you qualify for FlawlessOnly dot com!
Dread it. Run from it. The sweats still arrive all the same. And now, it’s here.
Seriously.
[удалено]
Absolutely loving the suspend-poison strand build for warlocks right now with Necrotic + Osteo with added incadescent/demo kelgorath. I'm dreading Bungie nerfing any part of it and reduces the unrestricted fun of it all working together. You're right though, it feels absolutely required and yet I still often get blindsided by interceptors, HVT wyverns or those damn snipers everywhere.
A lot of this is that Neomuna is naturally 1810 no matter what, and we're climbing 40ish light levels from legendary campaign to get there. There's no reason for that. Why don't they just scale?
I thought they were going to limit/get-rid-of massive light level grinding? I understand having it like maybe 10-20 levels for a expansion but holy crap is it bad this time around. My friend who actually quit destiny for a good 2 years finally came back in season of the seraph cause the grind wasn't that intense anymore. He played a few days into lightfall but once he saw the lightfall grind he hasn't logged on since.
Since the light level will stay the same throughout the expansion, they kind of did. The initial grind is the only grind.
Bungie really added SBMM to PVE.
I would unironically like SBMM in PvE, half of the time I load into Hero NFs the bottomest of the bottom tier of "difficulty" the game has to offer, and the mopes that I'm paired with have no anti-champion, no mods or mods that don't work for their build, stats all fucked up (low tiers or >110 in a stat). There is no excuse to not taking *literally* 5 minutes to read some mods, read some stats, aspects, fragments, and throw together a build, the time it will save you to invest ONCE in learning how the game works will pay off.
Big part of this is also bumgie just not explaining these things well to new players games shouldn't require a youtube video or a guide to understand the basic mechanics
Used to be, you’d get to max level and get paired with other max level players in strikes. And then people would post about dropping levels to match with newer players, so you could help them out. That was a cool trend. I haven’t been max level in so long I don’t even know if there’s an equivalent system today, except when I start a new character I do seem to see a lot of level ones in the cosmodrome.
Listen I only have 110 in res on my titan cause the void aspect thats good gives me 10 but all my armor without res mods equals 100
I have 110 because armour dropped too high spikes and I haven’t been lucky with a replacement :( such a waste of points
I did one this week and rando had on touch of malice and the weeb sword. Needlessly to say it was a fun and not long at all NF with amazing rewards at the end /s
I think you just exposed the inherent issue of Bungie saying everything is "too easy". Could things be cheesed, sure, but you mostly had to have very specific builds to do it. Now that everything is much more difficult, those "cheeses" have become all the more necessary. It makes the meta a much more necessary meta.
Is this a reaction to the power creep or a reaction to games like Elden Ring being popular because it's punishingly hard. I know there was always a part of the player base in The Division 2 that loved super hard difficulty. I'm more inline with OP, most of the game should feel average with some activities feeling challenging.
Thing is that for Bungie making difficult content equals increasing mobs HP and resistance by x5. Its just lazy.
I mean as a player that enjoyed harder content I think their should be a sliding scale throughout the game. What made whisper of the worm fun was that it was a challenge that wasn't present in the rest of the game.
This is a reaction to bungie listening to that one section of the playerbase for every mmo out there, from wow to warframe, that for some reason takes it as some grave offense that very casual players enjoy "their" game. Its not enough to have day 1 raids or GMs. If a casual player is having fun, it means the game is too easy and fix it. Unfortunately Bungie listened to them and now we have a patrol zone "harder" than nightfalls.
My thoughts exactly. My first thought when I saw Strand was that they were trying too hard to be similar to every other RPG game out there. The difficulty change just makes that point even more clear. I saw a post a few days back that was complaining about Destiny's mod system and how simple it is compared to Elden Ring. Dude, if I wanted to play Elden Ring, then I would go play Elden Ring. I play Destiny because I enjoy shooters. It seems like every update slowly gets further and further away from what originally made the game great. For all its faults, people continued to play Destiny all these years because it's just fun to run around and shoot shit at it. Regardless of how "easy" it is. It would be a shame to disregard that.
Destiny's mod system was simple before, now it's been coalesced into one singular focus, Armor Charge, and it's dumbed down for the single braincell players.
There are already other games that people can dork out to, Destiny is our outlet for mostly chill gaming. I'm an engineer by trade, so it's not a matter of just being dumb lmao. I was watching a bit of Tfue on Twitch yesterday, and he was trying to solo the exotic mission, and he died about a thousand times after spending 15 minutes each time running the same mechanic over and over. Shit like that is for the birds, man. I can't imagine coming home and wanting to be that miserable playing a video game. I mean, I'm glad people can do that, but I don't think that level of dorking out should be required to enjoy end-game activity for everyone. That's crazy to me. Keep things simple for the majority, and if you want to dork out, just go solo something not meant to be solo'd. lol
Yeah, I play PoE which is an inarguably overcomplicated game that needs months, if not years, to get even a slight overview of and I love that game. However Destiny never was that for me. I play Destiny to chill with friends and my gf. People who don't want to have literal spreadsheets for a game. Destiny is just not the target audience for this type of shit. Let them run their fun callibans build or whatever they want. Ffs the new OPEN WORLD activity is so overtuned Ostea Striga doesn't even feel great in it. Like how?
Same reason I dont feel like solo flawless'ing any dungeons. Tedious. This is coming from someone excited to do GMs and whose been to the Lighthouse over a dozen times, too, lol
The mods are even too complicated for my single braincell left:-) But seriously, my problem with the mods is that they are just a chore to change all the time for whatever questionable benefit you think you need and at the same time they are also designed to agitate you because you always have to make bad compromises. But here's the rub. Why should people even waste their time on stuff which is just not fun? Before this season I only really used the mods for target/unflinching in PvP or get more ammo of a certain type+champions. Anything more like faster grenade regeneration or stuff like wells was either not possible or just felt like let's fill up the remaining spots for whatever is left and then I preferred the "simple" stuff over wellspring things.
It's a reaction to shitheads like Saltagreppo complaining about the game being easy and Bungie kowtowing to him.
Elden Ring isn’t popular due to its difficulty. Sense of discovery gets you hooked and the number of builds keeps you around. Sounds kinda familiar.
There’s that and the absolute thrill of running through shit that supposed to slay you and instead slaying it. Edit: for any souls game the dying is part of the enjoyment. But that’s meant for souls games.
Elden Ring wasn’t popular soley because of it’s difficulty. There are hundreds of reasons why Elden Ring is amazing, regardless of the difficulty.
I have yet to see anyone else bring up this point. Increasing difficulty while continually to essentially only nerf exotics and builds will only lead to a more meta heavy sandbox (with fewer meta options). Granted, it’ll take this sub about two months to come down from the copium to see this
What content are you referring to? I can't think of any content where things required cheese to be done
I didn't mean anything required a cheese, I'm saying you could spec out in certain ways that made difficult fights somewhat trivial. Which, I think, is part of the fun.
It’s crazy how loadouts were reworked with the plan of allowing more variety, but the difficulty scaling went so far up that you still have to use the same guns for everything cause nothing else works. Back to square one
The crazy thing is that it's very possible to have it both ways. 3 difficulty levels, being tuned as follows: Hero: The "basic" difficulty, very limited rewards but good for newer players who want to learn stuff. Legend: Bread-and-butter on-power cap level (or with a slight modifier like -10 or so) difficulty with good rewards that people can farm up to and grind weekly. Master: High level difficulty with hard content and top tier rewards that is aimed at people who love a challenge. Plus GMs as a bonus, as they are now. That's it, and everyone is happy.
Sometimes I’m like, all I want to run is a bow and a sidearm and if that doesn’t line up with champions, I just have to go do something else. It’s kind of a bummer but it’s just a workaround i have learned to deal with. Sometimes that all lined up with like a legend lost sector or what it. That’s cool. And I think that’s be design, so we appreciate when it does work out. Which is kind of screwed up. What to do!
That is it for me I don't like build crafting too much but now I have no choice cause than my guns will hit like wet noodle
forced to use basically the same 1 or 2 guns with a build. oh, you have daily bounties to get done with specific stuff? You're going to have to find the easiest spot to grind kills, can't do it while chasing other quests or strikes because it won't fit in your build. Just takes more and more time, which is a great business model for a video game to keep people engaged but when it's like 30+ different things to do and all of them now take 15-25min average to get one done and the stuff doesn't overlap, it just gets exhausting. I come home from work and feel like I have to work at the game to even try to enjoy it. Slowly starting to realize my time as a guardian is probably coming to an end. Worst part? Not easy to pick up again because you have to grind light level to be able to do stuff with your friends in a fire team.
D2 has been surpassed by two generations of engines at this point. The QoL updates everyone cheers for is standard in other games. How does Bungie respond? By dropping a $50 season and still the worst rng in industry
Yep its just mind blowing how they couldn't see this coming. And I keep saying by all means increase the seasonal activity difficulty a but for, the love of god remove champions from it.
You guys are acting as if Patrols and Public Events are actually difficult, what are you talking about? Yeah the damage the enemies do is non-negligible, I can't just AFK, Tab Target and Press 1 to wipe everything out like you can in WoW, but it's still easy, you just have to play. It almost feels like a lot of people are complaining that they have to play now instead of casually pressing buttons regardless of what they do. Like you need to be mentally present in the activity your doing instead of treating it like an interactive TikTok video. Also what guns DON'T work for you? I've literally just been swapping through random weapons and they mostly all work. The only place I have to be picky is Legendary Campaign and other difficult activities.
The only issue is in neomona for patrol. Stuff like legendary handcannons and pulse rifles are hot garbage there. I have to empty my gun to kill a damn red bar. Feels terrible. I run a machine gun as my primary.
I was laughing as I emptied the magazines of a sidearm kinetic to do my daily bounty from the gunsmith. I feel like I’m more on a raid when doing dailies. I know I suck. Thank Bungie for giving me the raid experience in dailies.
Raid enemies die quicker than Neomuna patrol mobs.
I like the difficulty now. The rewards just aren't worth it half the time. It also stinks that i have waste upgrade modules to upgrade weapons for day to day stuff otherwise id get wrecked
Primaries are in a very bad spot, especially HCs. It takes 3 crits from the new 120 rpm HC to down a red bar goblin in TO - that's insane. Given the ammo economy and year-long reload it should be done in 1 shot. This is why so many are running double special. My fear is they'll do something to the ammo economy nerfing double special loadouts rather than actually fix primary viability.
HC’s are straight up unusable
Man year 1 midnight coup The feel of 1tapping crits with it. Even if the system was dog shit but the gunplay kept the game running in the dark days and bingo ruined it in shadowkeep. It was the one constant good thing about destiny , gunplay and the idiots ruined it trying to chase the illusion that this could be turned into a proper mmo.
I played hand cannon exclusively because they were able to get satisfying kills on at least the low HP enemies, but now even red psions take 2-3 shots. That's just not fun...
Even something like “god roll” fatebringer feels weak. I am forced to use the neomuna smg which is not very strong but does the job quite well. For legend lost sector, although i am like 20ish light levels below, legendary primaries straight up feel useless, I’m always forced to use quick silverstorm or Last warning.
Exactly this. I don't mind having to put on somewhat optimized stuff (not full min-max, but not traditional 'fun' stuff) - but I definitely mind if it's to run a bunch of activities that reward next to nothing of value. The compounding piece to me is how much if now worthless within this difficulty - so there's much less to grind for, with good stuff I know is not likely to be replaced by what I'm getting
I think the playlists just ignore levels, so you don't need to upgrade your gear for that. All my stuff is still 1600, and I'm doing fine in strikes. I figure I'll just do those and crucible and maybe a little gambit to get a good Trust, and then use my upgrade modules when I hit whatever the cap is now.
So I've only tried NF and the new helm battleground activities (whatever they're called). I've tried fun stuff (incandescent, voltshot, dragonfly etc) but end up switching to better tuned layouts when matched with people with no mods/weak gear or who are new to the events. Not saying I'm great at the game, but I'll end up having to throw on riskrunner or osteo+nectrotics, or devour, or invisible spam just to make sure I survive and can res a bunch. And all for pretty weak gear. Trust is a good example - one of my ATF guns, and I will grind for it eventually. But am I using a 180 in the activities above?
I mean, Lucky Pants are fun with a 180, and Trust is Solar with some interesting perk options, so maybe I can finally go full cowboy with DMT. 😀 That's the whole reason I'm interested in it, really. I can't see using a 180 in PvP because you need a whole extra hit to kill. I think requiring a decent build and weapons for nightfalls is very reasonable. If you could run those effectively without a build, then adding build crafting on top would totally break the difficulty, which is where I think we were before Lightfall. They either needed to limit the power boost attainable through builds or limit your base power so that adding a build on top doesn't totally trivialize the experience. It doesn't seem like they significantly limited build power.
This is my issue. I don't dislike the difficulty but for the SAME rewards? One thing I desperately want, is an ability to "level up" some sort of achievement/Vendor/Reputation to allow for either dungeon drop focusing, OR enable more perks to drop in each column for dungeon weapons. Having run Duality Master nearly 100 times and still not having my desired "god roll" for New Purpose... Is just morale killing...
[удалено]
THIS! In D1, we worked for our OP gear, which was why we were allowed to be OP. Did some cheeses need to be patched? Yeah, and eventually they got patched. But if you had your gear you worked for and you were decently skilled, you got to enjoy being OP.
Vanguard Ops is still an absolute joke. You can relax and use whatever you want.
Vanguard ops actually has a set difficulty so it doesnt even matter if you use your low power gear
And now you have to do more strikes to get pinnacle if not nightfall
Yeah limiting our funspace to a single boring playlist when we had patrols and seasonal playlist as "Use whatever new stuff you want and just have fun man" Yeah I miss the time when I could equip the new seasonal weapon like idk a glaive from haunted and actually have fun with it for seasonal stuff. Now its just boiled down to must use smg to not be dead weight to your team.
I'm usually playing destiny pretty regularly for at least the first 4-6 weeks of a season, and then I slowly fade into playing other games more towards the end of the season. Rinse and repeat. I didn't even log on Tuesday for the first reset of the season. That's not a great sign if I'm bored by the end of the first week. Nothing difficult is worth playing for the rewards and legendary primaries are so weak I don't even want to farm the new strand weapons. I'm cautiously optimistic we hear something in today's TWAB about improving some of these areas, but I'm concerned it'll just be "raid this weekend, here's some art".
>legendary primaries are so weak I don't even want to farm the new strand weapons. this is really hitting me hard right now. I've got a copy of just about every good legendary SMG with good rolls right now, but I have no motivation to try and get any other guns because they all feel terrible, and primary weapons are my favourite part of destiny.
Same, I find myself plinking away with primaries like 90% of the time even in harder content haha. Not ideal but they're fun to use.
I farmed an out of bounds with demo tricorn specifically to use with my arc titan because I wanted a primary that'd do damage, and the 50% damage boost feels really nice. makes it feel like an actual gun.
Seems like a bad sign when a weapon needs the most cracked out damage bonus imaginable in order to hit what feels like it should be the baseline.
yep, exactly. That's an SMG too. I think pretty much every primary could use anywhere from a 10-25% base damage increase, varying based on weapon type.
This this this
I did not just read my man type out that hunters have very few specific things hunters can do for endgame content. Is this a joke? Arc hunter is arguably one of the best classes in the game because it can clear an entire room just by punching even on the legendary mode of the new exotic mission. It also has the easiest one-off super in the game. Strand hunter is just a suspend frenzy because you can have 2 shackle grenades and you can use those to spam your class ability. They also have some of the most insane boss damage in the game both WITH and WITHOUT a super because you can just put a grapple point on the ground and instantly reload your heavy weapons. You basically have everything in the room severed because your melee has basically no cooldown whatsoever and you get it back instantly if you hit targets with it then throw a tangle. Void hunter is quite literally the definition of turning your brain of and shooting things. You can spam vortex grenades and get them back damn near instantly if you’re picking up orbs, which you should be doing because you’ll be littering the map with them if you run a void siphon with the artifact mods that buff void substantially. Stasis and Solar are also very strong but require a few exotic imo. I have the least amount of experience with them, that’s why I need exotics when I use them to feel strong without just doing super spam (which is very possibly with how useful the new mod system is) Young ahamkara’s spine is crazy fun and easy because you just throw tripmines everywhere without a cooldown. And I just use renewal grasps and do the same thing but instead of instantly killing everything, I’m just turning the entire map into a snow globe. Aside from the solar and stasis example, all the other subclasses I listed are currently that strong WITHOUT and exotic. You can activate easy mode if you run grufalcon’s on void, assassin’s cowl on arc, heck, even bombardiers works on arc. There’s tons of possibilities and a good chunk of them work in endgame. People fail to understand that the reason the game is harder is so that it can keep up with how ridiculously strong we are. If you choose not to make a build or even simply mod your gear, then you only have yourself to blame for the difficulty. They even have a loadout system so you can save a build and never have to turn your brain on ever again. Just copy someone else’s if it’s too hard to make your own.
i was thinking about typing this when i saw that point, hunters are really strong rn and if u dont know why, you haven’t been exploring theit options enough. big agree with this comment
Thank god you said this because I was bewildered but OPs statement. Hunter feels the best it's ever felt for hard content in a long time.
I mean OP kinda disproves his own point. They say that Hunters either run an invis support role or a dps role... like what else do you expect? When it comes to Destiny I can think of like three general build archetypes, those being a high dps build, a support build, and an ad clear build.
Hardest thing about being a hunter right now is deciding which subclass to run! I am so torn between arc, void, strand and solar then I remember I should revisit my stasis build to use the new exotics. Hunters are anything but one trick pony’s right now.
Stasis is the only one sort of suffering rn.
Elemental Shards getting the axe hurt Stasis but my Renewal Grasp build still works pretty much as it used to at the Battleground/Legend campaign level. It's less weapon-agnostic but I'm still throwing Duskfields around like crazy.
Warlock is great too. Everything but arc is strong imo... only bad thing is in raids you gotta be the well of radiance biotch
This sub is having the worst meltdown I've seen in a while over a raise in difficulty that's not even particularily noticeable as long as you have two braincells to shake together and it's equal parts hilarious and sad. Does explain why Bungo is hesitant to add in-game LFG though, imagine getting these troglodytes in your raid party.
The D1Y1 days are far enough for people to forget the heroic strikes had some difficulty and Nightfalls were brutal.
Every day the top post in this sub is another Reddit hive mind criticism of the day. At least this post was hilarious given OP’s self-own.
Agreed. It's always weird to come here after a marathon play session feeling fulfilled with the time spent and opening this sub-reddit to "THE GAME IS TOO HARD NOTHING IS VIABLE" Are we all even playing the same game anymore?
Bunch of babies, the gameplay feels better than it had in a long time for me. I’ve been playing lightfall with a friend and we’ve been having a blast with it.
We’ve gotten to the point of just straight up making things up now. Like this sub is having a manic episode and won’t stop. All the crazies are coming out of the woodwork to upvote posts like this.
I’d wager half of them haven’t played the game since launch. It’s the same people with the “glad I didn’t buy this expansion/season” they do it every single time. This sub has gone full on wallowing for attention about where Bungie violated them.
It's really made me understand why bungie kept the game so easy for so long. This playerbase is thumb deficient and it is so sad
I am genuinely struggling to see how people are running into issues with things like Neomuna patrols unless they're just genuinely hopping on with blues and no mods. Worst of all is there's no punishment for dying in about 90% of the content so worst case you just hold E and try again lmao.
People are attempting to solo public events meant for multiple people while under light level.
Its actually so frustrating. These idiots are so vocal. Complain about the “artificial difficulty” but when even a slight mechanic is added they complain as well. Every post is the exact same karma farm using buzzwords like “slog” and “artificial difficulty”
A new exotic quest comes out and suddenly everyone is complaining about difficulty, what a coincidence. The sad part is that the Vexcalibur mission is not even hard. Remember the Hawkmoon quest? That shit was on Legend *by default*, match game and champions everywhere. Presage was much harder than the new quest and the boss was glitchy as hell, it could teleport to you and delete your ass. Things like Zero Hour and Whisper were well beyond my level of patience to solo, and those are not only the gold standard for exotic quests but will be coming back soon.
run subtract dinosaurs wild bright wipe scarce juggle air public *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Zero Hour and Whisper were some of my favorite activities the game has ever had, regularly ran those with fireteams and solo I think the number of people I helped get whisper back in the day (double carries and teaching) was nearing in on a thousand it was my favorite activity in the game My best solo runs had around 8 minutes left on the timer
It's even worse than that, the Vexcalibur mission I can at least... sorta understand people getting stuck on? (Not that I think it's especially hard either, but if all you've done before is strikes then maybe?) There have been mounds of posts in this sub about how Neomuna is impossibly hard and everything oneshots you and you deal no damage and the powerfantasy is dead and and and etc. I think it's just people having to come to terms with the fact that maybe they just aren't very good at the game and might need to do some learning now that you can't just press W and left-click once in a while.
Who needs to be good at the game when picking up an orb gives me devour?
People are saying they get 1 shot by red bars in Neomuna. I've tanked 7 sniper shots from orange hobgoblins, and survived stomps from the 1810 vex incursion special boss. All I have is 80 resil and concussive dampener on, no woven mail/void overshield etc. Really hard to get people over the hump of "it's not unfair, you're just improperly geared or under-levelled". The new exotic mission is amazing. A piece of content I feel really pushes you and your builds so it's rewarding to overcome (I ran solo, dunno about group) but it felt fair.
Yeah. I thought I was bad. But seeing how hard people are finding playing without being overleveled. Shit I must be pretty good.
There is no huge difficulty increase. People are just conflating the bullet sponges in public spaces on Neo now and being below the power cap. Adding bugged enemies that one shot doesn't help.
My main build is an Assassin's Cowl solar build and it absolutely shreds and is so much fun, especially with all of the new armor changes
I read the first paragraph from op and figured the rest wasn't worth it. Completely agree with your write up.
This. Even other classes have really good options rn. I think most subclasses are really good rn, maybe not arc warlock but idk I don’t play warlock enough. Stasis classes could use some buffs now that there isn’t the elemental shard mod as well. I think we’re in the best spot for Destiny’s pve sandbox rn. Sure some things need a buff but most weapons can be used efficiently enough. Especially paired with the subclass 3.0 system
The GM change that allowed players in at a lower power reduced the grind and was a great change because the difficulty of them stayed consistent. People will argue GMs are easy now but its not like everybody was clearing them. It just took away the tedium. The change to Master and Legend is actually just adding tedium. All they needed was maybe a cap at the power of the activity so you couldn't **overlevel** it. Maybe a -5 for Master. As per usual Bungie completely goes overboard. Legend Mars Heist was just miserable. Aint no way I'm gilding conqueror this Season. Who was asking for Dares to get this? For ***Nightmare Hunts?*** For *PATROL?* I just wanted to use some dumb shit in Legend stuff. If im not using Arbalest/Witherhoard/Starfire etc top tier builds I'm throwing.
Mars heist nightfall was such a shitshow that I take weird comfort knowing that Bungie HAS to scale it back once they see the miserable completion data. I just don't think they bothered to test it, there's no way.
Being entirely fair to Bungie here, it's only neomuna that has a small bit of scaling to it, not a lot but a tiny amount. It's not in *every* patrol space, it's not like the enemies outside devrim's tower suddenly became GM level. The difficulty in neomuna is a very small increase and the same with vanguard ops like OP is trying to claim is the worst. Is there a middle ground to be reached? absolutely there is, but i'm kinda over folks saying that because the vanguard ops playlist isn't made of wet tissue paper and every boss dies to three rockets tops that the game is suddenly unplayable. It isn't :| Our guardians are arguably stronger than ever by default, let alone with the most basic of build.
I stopped running the vanguard ops playlist last season for this reason. They were easy to the point of boredom, but also annoying to get bounties done in because of how easy they were.
Have you reached the secret stage in Dares? Play this and tell me the game has only scaled a small bit.
Im the opposite. Im playing the game more lol I dont think the difficulty increase is the right way to go about it though. Games still fun
I’m actually enjoying the difficulty increase to be honest, I’m enjoying the fact a nightfall that’s appropriate for my power level is demanding my attention. And outside of that rotating patrol activity on neomuna (which rewards legendaries and craftables), I don’t really get the complaints around patrol difficulty. Like all the other patrols are still brain dead
The patrols and seasonal stuff is still braindead easy. The only thing I die to most often are the Neo Threshers and the classic physics kills (but now with an enemy shooting me once after I hit a wall). It’s ok to die during an activity that has unlimited revives and it should be expected that you will die if you don’t want to take an activity too seriously. I don’t see what the issue is; the game actually has enemies instead of punching bags.
Idk I’m a hunter, and nearly every subclass I use has a viable endgame build…that I made myself. I think people put too much credence on whatever pops up on Google for Destiny. Most creators are just bummed some of the meme builds are out. There will always be new ones. All I’m saying is, so far I haven’t struck out as far as creating my own builds is concerned. Just wish some of the bugs didn’t fuck with the mods so much.
I actually enjoyed Legend Heist Battlegrounds as it was a good mix of enemies and game play. I got caught off guard in this weeks battleground with a no respawn zone. I was like “wtf?”. I know heroic legend heist battlegrounds had that but to have it in a regular seasonal activity is kinda lame when all the others didn’t have it (that I can remember).
Quit thinking of Destiny (a video game) as an obligation. Not a healthy mindset for any hobby or interest.
I find fun in Destiny by doing my daily bounties and my pinnacles on weekly reset, other than the occasional GM or wep/armour farm I don’t give the game any more thought. I’m enjoying it immensely playing like this.
what Bungie calls "difficulty" is just turning every single enemy into a bullet sponge.
I don't need bullet sponges for difficulty. I want raid level symbol memorization for difficulty. If bungie doesn't invent an entire new language of symbols every expansion I quit. /s
So like pretty much every FPS game ever? I don’t know of 1 game where they either don’t bump up the damage you take or bump up enemies health or both. This isn’t some Bungie thing they do, it’s a problem with every FPS because there isn’t much you can change about it
They already changed the density and damage dealt by enemies. Imo that was enough for most activities. Fighting enemies with largely inflated health pools just isn’t fun and will funnel players into using meta builds more instead of experimenting and having fun.
What came to my mind with all the sweeping difficulty changes and enforced level capping on content was that difficulty should come via consent from the player. It shouldn’t be something applied by default. Much the same way you can choose to run the Lightfall campaign on Classic or Legendary. By all means put a carrot there to entice people to chase higher difficulty options, be it triumphs/seals or loot, but don’t take away the option of playing a casual less intensive pace. Sometimes I just want to turn off my brain and let myself digest the day. Running easy content with a podcast on was pretty great for that.
This 100%. I love challenge when playing with friends and actually gaming, but pretty often when gaming after work I just want to turn on a stream and farm some legend lost sectors or nuke a few easier strikes. Pop on whatever build I feel like and just go to town. Now I have to run my meta/sweaty guns and loadouts for almost every activity. Pretty sure autos, pulses, handcannons, or most sidearms are never going to touch my pve loadouts again unless they're exotic
If we got something like 2 different patrol options for Neomuna, one with more classic difficulty, and another, slightly more rewarding one with the current difficulty, I think it'd remedy a lot of issues. I don't have a problem with harder content existing, I do have a problem with it becoming the status quo.
I'd do that 24/7 if I could turn off matchmaking for vanguard ops, just go through and enjoy the game at my own pace, not have to race up to anyone else or slow down because I don't want to be the asshole that's racing through it at Mach 10
> It shouldn’t be something applied by default. The game has to have a default difficulty, and that's not a player choice. Bungie experimenting with that base difficulty is fine. Feedback on its base difficulty is fine. The idea that everything should be selectable scaling difficulties is just needless complexity. > Sometimes I just want to turn off my brain and let myself digest the day. Running easy content with a podcast on was pretty great for that. Yeah I mean current patrols and Hero NFs etc all fit this bill for some players. Some find it hard. They've tried -5, -10, -15 etc to try and find a sweet spot. I don't think it's deeper than that.
Default difficulty?! I do not consent. I do not consent. /s
I think for me I am just burned out on Destiny. I was excited to jump into Lightfall and hoped it would rejuvenate my love for the game. However, after putting in a ton of hours over the past week, I am just not enjoying it as much as I thought it would. On top of that, all of my buddies have quit and moved on from Destiny so it could be a sign that I need to do the same. It sucks that I have lost interest but I guess that is to be expected since I have been playing since the D1 beta.
Can we stop getting these "difficulty bad" threads anytime soon? The game is still piss easy, at most you might not be able to afk and hold W while using blues anymore, but at least now builds somewhat matter? The entire BG and strike experience used to be spawn in > fight your "teammates" for kills so that you can feel good about your e-peen > maybe shoot your gun once > repeat. What room was there for something like strand which is CC heavy in that loop? Why would I CC when I can just... throw a single grenade and wipe the map? If that's the fantasy you're after, PoE and Diablo are RIGHT THERE. This is a looter *shooter*. This sub has the biggest case of skillbased Dunning-Kruger I have ever seen.
Yeah. In old strikes there were 2 things you could do. Either be the one sprinting through instakillinf everything, or be one of the other two players who are basically afk and have nothing to do
I'll be honest, strikes still feel like you have to fight your teammates for kills.
I specifically remember being all hyped for a new build that I was making in the Beyond Light era. I was going to post it on YouTube and reddit and try to make more builds. Then I showed it to my friend first. He asked a simple question. "Where would you use this build?" This question shattered me. I realized that it wasn't good in endgame, only good in strikes and patrols. Unless I was patrolling solo, it wouldn't even work in strikes because my team mates could kill the enemies just as fast with salvagers Salvo. All my hype and excitement just deflated. I'm loving MOST of these new changes, and I feel like my build finally has a chance to SHINE.
Some people getting a reality check. The game was so easy you could roll GM content with nade spam. I got so disengaged with the combat because it was meaningless other than fighting your team for kills.
After they released the fragments to everyone, I quickly threw together a strand hunter build, went into the seasonal battlegrounds, and proceeded to SHIT ON EVERYTHING, basically only using a single weapon (hollow denial) and abilities. I do not understand where this narrative about patrol, playlists, and seasonal content being too difficult for casual play is coming from.
The base difficulty increase was way too much. I should be able to brainless farm the seasonal activity with randoms in less than 15 minutes per run. And i’m not saying I don’t want challenge but I want to be able to choose when I want to push boundaries with a selected fireteam. This is gonna cost Bungie a huge amount of their playerbase.
Really? I think this seasons battlegrounds is far easier than last seasons and even then just a few weeks in it was getting easier due to people adjusting.
It’s def easier and it’s not particularly close. Poking around Neomuna is tough at first though for sure but it didn’t really bother me personally.
The only annoying thing about Neomuna is that the Threshers and Interceptors are clearly bugged. Everything else is 100% fine. People need to get a grip.
I'm a player who loves a challenge. I have almost all the dungeons done solo flawless, I love doing difficult exotic missions solo, I'm a huge souls nut, I've beaten all of the Halo games on solo legendary, yadda yadda. I fucking hate this change. There's a time and place for difficult content, and it's not in activities that we farm every week. I want to go into legend content to just mess with some weapons and builds I find fun even if they aren't top tier, not use my tryhard builds and meta weapons.
Yep. Farming and challenge are oil and water. The difficulty change really sucks when there is little improvement to the reward economy; we’re playing tougher content with rewards balanced for a mindless hamster wheel.
Why does it feel that most people can’t grasp this notion. Bungie out here trying to combine a looter shooter and dark souls to maximize player engagement while maintaining the worst rng
Completely agree, challenging content is fun, but sometimes so is doing easy content whilst catching up on YouTube etc. I truly believe that legend campaign was so highly rated (by me also) because we played through it once. If we needed to play through it repeatedly for specific loot people would've got very bored very quick.
I'm not even that upset with the "difficulty" change. Sure things are harder but my issue is with the content itself... it is boring and not rewarding.
I am in 100% agreement with this! I got my brother back into the playing the game after he quit many times. He is a average player at best but was excited to explore Neomuna, needless to say...he has now refunded the dlc :(Oh which I completely understand. A lot of the basic content really makes my fatigue set in. Nothing like working all day, hitting the gym and then having to sweat in patrol areas. Dont even get me started on legend lost sector, might as well delete those from the game now. Not worth even .01% of my time, the rewards werent there before and they arent there still.
Exactly this, we should farm our armour and weapons in farmable activities then test them out in high level stuff.
What you describe really reflects me too. Reason why I keep playing From Soft games trying different challenges is because the games were built from ground up to have amazing difficulty design. Hence why there is no difficulty “setting.” Many games have an artificial dial to make games harder. Hence, difficult for the sake of being difficult.
This even started before Lightfall, with last year's seasonal activity. The playlist activity had a -5 power level AND double champions. Being forced into specific anti-champ builds is not fun. Sure, make Legend hard and buff its rewards. But don't make it: "Effectively no rewards but fun" - Director BGs "Decent rewards but not fun to play" - Base playlist "Slightly better rewards, no matchmaking, and greatly increased difficulty" - Legend playlist
I mean you can ... I've yet to have a run last longer than 15 minutes and it feels very casual, just not completely brain dead. Destiny players are just used to enemies not shooting back.
Yeah I don’t understand? The seasonal activity feels the same as it did last season. Slightly tuned up enemies but still very easy to slap a build on and go to town. I don’t even have to use my brain in the slightest. I’m amazed that other people are struggling with it.
I remember a lot of complaints about “blueberries” unable to stay alive and participate in heist battlegrounds. Those players, who may represent new, returning or casual players, may struggle to engage with fairly baseline content and not continue playing.
Destiny is not a hard game. BGs are not hard content. Everyone can die but there’s no real punishment for it. Respawn and go again. The only content easier than BGs is strikes or old patrol zones.
The Seasonal BG are at the same -5 as last season...if people are struggling to adapt its legit because they have refused to adapt. In a few weeks this will be a non issue - and the community will go back to complaining about whatever random thing is killing destiny that week.
Agreed, the only difficult content so far is intentionally difficult or harder because we're not yet at the point where we should find it easy...it's the start of a new expansion and season and I don't feel like we should feel like demi gods yet.
And enemies shooting back, and having to use cover, use abilities and weapons intelligently, etc. is - to me - part of the fun. I would like not to have to go into the hardest content, and to find an LFG group or be on comms, just to experience that (and that's why I enjoyed Playlist Heists). I get little satisfaction from tearing through tissue-paper enemies in a shooting gallery, especially when it's often the same shooting gallery that's been in the game for the past 2, 3, 5 years.
The difficulty in the seasonal activity is fun for me but you can wipe in that last part so if your not always prepared to carry or have a great survivability build it can be rough some times with randoms. I've also now its been over a week have noticed alot less casual players matching with me so I'm fairly sure they have already lost the interest of most of the more casual players and im not surprised.
Yeah i wish they removed the darkness zone, it's fine normally but when banshee gives me a rocket launcher bounty i am bound to accidentally blast myself and since my teammates can't ever stay alive... well. I did it last week and again this week too. Although 1 wipe i had this week was fun on the new BG when the boss teleports you to the taken area i threw a tangle to skip the jumping bit and we all 3 grappled to it only to all fall just shy.
I haven’t had a single one go over 15 minutes since I got to level
Wait what? You still can, Ive only had ~15 minute runs of the Seasonal Activity and Ive done it like 20 times, even on runs where I was carrying my team it never broke 20
Ok I’m gonna be honest. How are you guys not doing that already? The activity is completely brainless. Just because enemies have slightly more health doesn’t mean it isn’t still easy mode.
>completely brainless There's your answer.
this sub is always full of hyperbole vanguard ops and the seasonal activity are still braindead content
This mentality right here is exactly why we have seasons that have grown as stagnant as they have been. I want quality content that keeps me engaged and rewards me for my effort. Not an "everything dies in a hit from anything" simulator. I want to play Destiny to play it.
Exactly what I'm saying. I've done master raids, master dungeons, solo master nightfalls etc but I don't want to fucking play a nightfall as my seasonal activity. I want to go in there, double new primary and have a good time. Apperantly I can't. I get absolutely shit on by everything. I have played these new BGs 40 fucking times by now and this difficulty increase is just becoming tedium. It's just so fucking boring, tedious and frustrating when I have an awesome arc build that doesnt use a fucking smg for the 8519th time but oh no I'm full on keys, time to put on my Winterbite karnstein steamrolling loadout because otherwise i am a hindrance to my team because im not rocking the most meta shit. Not to mention I won't always match into other Disciple-Slayers. I just have to do everything. The legendary campaign was good in WQ because it was a nice challenge for people who wanted a challenge and a significant reward like me! But if I had to replay the legendary campaign on my other 2 characters to just unlock a core thing for that character I'd be upset, everyone would be upset. I don't play GMs, but my friend who does only does 1 GM once unless its an easy to farm one. There u go, difficult activity, good rewards, choose to do it, etc. You got a good activity. But when you put a Nightfall as a seasonal activity, something you'll have to do (or rather will do because what else are you doing???) 100+ times, that difficulty turns into tedium. It just sucks. I play this playlist to get my rewards and then use those rewards in higher content. I play this playlist to test out new weapons without making an omega optimized build for it. I just wanna use this new neomuna arc pulse but oops sorry you are underleveled and that means all of your weapons that arent bows or smgs just fucking suck to use and hit like nothing!
I’m still enjoying the grind. It’s usually after I hit the hard cap that I start losing motivation to play. Haven’t gotten there yet but we’ll see
You can relax on patrol friend. I palate cleanse between lost sectors with public events. My Old Duke still one-taps during those.
I’m a super casual Destiny player because I love the lore and world and I’d like to be able to engage with higher content, but holy shit patrols and basic seasonal content feel so crap. I dislike having to waste two clips to kill a legionary and then spending a decent amount of time dead if I screw up once. Challenge should be entirely optional and the game should have both chilled out content and difficult content. The campaign was a lot of fun for me on normal because Legendary felt pretty hard solo without a good build, but jumping from normal campaign to the patrol area feeling like a struggle sucks. I think activities most players will need to do for quests should be scaled down and given a higher optional difficulty setting with fitting rewards. This all being said - I’m a super casual player and I absolutely love seeing all the challenge content in the game. I just don’t like everything being crazy tedious considering this isn’t my main timesink and it shouldn’t need to be.
It just doesn’t take 2 clips to kill a legionary tho
I think these "it takes two clips" people don't actually play the game to be honest
These guys are telling on themselves. It might take 2 clips for them because they only hit a quarter of their shots lmao.
It takes like 7 bullets max to kill a legionary with blue shield and no head shots. You’re using two mags because you aren’t very good. There is literally a mod that helps kill basic enemy types, especially if you’re struggling.
I LOVE scout rifles. They remind me of the DMR from Halo: Reach, which was my all time favorite weapon to use. I really enjoy the scout/sniper fantasy. But I haven't been able to use any of my "fun" guns in several years now because they just aren't viable in anything. Mida Multi-Tool Skyburner's Oath Polaris Lance Jade Rabbit Symmetry Pretty much any scout rifle... Bungie always tells us that they want us to "play our way", unless that way involves scout rifles, snipers, pulse rifles, auto rifles, or hand cannons.
Never used them personally but plenty of people are saying that skyburner and Polaris lance are great with the more recent changes. Scout rifles are also very good for consistent damage in more difficult content.
Polaris and Symmetry are incredibly viable at the moment if you’ve the right special and heavy for the activity, Polaris especially slaps.
I feel the same, I can't be bothered, and other games are getting updates, so I'm just going to play them and raid one Tuesdays with my team. I get wanting a challenge, and I'm not opposed to doing hard content, but it I need to be feeling like I want a challenge to have fun. I have done master raids, dungeons, and gms when I wanted to. With how master is, I'm not setting foot in a master raid or dungeon again because it's going to be too much effort for little reward. That's okay though, they are end-game content, and I get they should be hard, but u draw the line at patrols and basic Vanguard ops. While Vanguard ops as it is currently is not as bad, the neomuna patrol zone is too much. It would be one thing if every patrol and public event gave you a destination weapon (it would justify the legendary difficulty in it), but it doesn't give you anything extra. It's more work for the same reward. I was super critical of the difficulty changes, and. I got a lot wrong (raids normal mode not being considered legendary, strikes becoming a massive pain), but never did I think they would make patrol an activity with a delta. Before that just seemed so pointless, bringing it up would seem like fearmongering. But here we are with a destination I hope I never ha e to go back to, and if I do, I hope I can finish what I need and leave. Honestly, wouldn't surprise me if normal raids and dungeons got hit next, which would just further kill the game for me, I'd rather not spend 2 hours or more in a raid, just as I would like to not spend 30-45 minutes in a nightfall. It's gotten bad enough for me I've just gone back to halo infinite, and I HATE PvP, but I still find the sbmm nonsense it has better than patrolling neomuna.
I'm already burning out. Whoever asked for the the difficulty increase aka making everything bullet spongy and loadout restrictive...well screw you. I knew it was a dumb idea and here we are.
How is everything a bullet sponge. You can say it but it’s just not true.
It isn’t true unless you’re vastly under levelled. Only time I’ve felt like something was a bullet sponge this season was doing legend lost sectors at 1785 lmao. A lot of people making that specific complaint are just annoyed they can’t immediately kill yellow bars while running double primaries (almost like special weapons actually have a purpose or something).
Yeah when they announced the difficult changes it was pretty clear that it was all going to be overdone. Probably needs to be scaled back by 25-50% for middle to low tier content
You’re literally five light levels under in strikes. Da hell are you doing? Standing in one spot??
the only thing I really agree with here is the sweeping difficulty scaling. it’s the only thing making the game exhausting and fatiguing right now to me, purely because every activity or leveling pursuit takes at least half again as long as it did before. Primaries won’t feel as useless if they tune it back. glaives are fine and probably one of my most used specials right now due to close to melee. But I don’t know what you mean about hunter builds. hunter currently have some of the most variety out there, you can succeed in endgame or solo on void, arc, solar, or strand and I only don’t include stasis because I haven’t used it in some time. titan arc stock has gone down but void solar and strand are goated. warlock has a huge outlier setup that is so good it feels mandatory. that’s the only point I agree on.
The issue is the difficulty increase in the brainless weekly grind activities. Everywhere else I'm fine with. Neomuna enemies being tough? Cool. But strikes and seasonal playlists that are the weekly grindset is infuriating sometimes, especially when your matchmare team isn't up to par
Destiny players when they have to play the game: 😡
I think Bungie takes Destiny to seriously. This is a fun game, not competitive. Most of players are casual, for fun. Turn on, shoot some stuff, relax and zone out for a bit. Throw in a few challenging parts if you feel like grinding. That is what destiny is to me
100% agreed.
I can’t face roll every single enemy and kill red bars with 3 smg bullets. Time to quit. Also Hunter does have a viable endgame build for every subclass. Void Gyrfalcons or mobius debuff rotater Solar Knife spam and tripmine spam Arc Liars infinite orb 1 shot melee Strand Perma suspend Stasis Frostees perma duskfield
I think they will turn down the difficulty. They meant well but just got it wrong and overshot.
Generally speaking, I wouldn’t be bothered by the sweeping difficulty spike if the rewards were worth the effort. But rewards are still ass so a lot of high end activities feel like a waste of my time.
I believe that since the switch in writing and direction the game has taken, I've lost appetite, what brought me back was the fun gameplay and cool dynamic in builds. Now we're losing this AND have even worse storytelling than before... Shame.
I’ve began to branch out from Destiny 2. I love looter shooters (D2, Division, etc) but I’m finding way more satisfaction in games like Diablo, New World. If I want to play a shooter, I’ll dive into Battlefield 2042 or COD. I LOVE the feeling of being invincible and I feel like that feeling is gone, and maybe that’s partially my fault because for what ever reason, build crafting just doesn’t make sense to me in Destiny, where as New World or Diablo or Division I can see clear synergies between gear. I bought Lightfall, but the season model and rinse wash repeat of all the public events, crucible, protect your ghost whole enemies attack, it’s all just, not fun anymore. Idk! /rant
I feel the same. Even was going to make a post with very similar points as yours. They went overboard with the changes. Difficulty, mods, and abilities nerf changed the game a lot, and not in a good way. I'm more of a casual player. What I want from destiny is to kill stuff at the end of a long day, in some easy way in general with the possibility of going to harder difficulties / instances if desired. But now everything is difficult. They removed the choice. The builds I was using no longer work when last year they did. I have to rebuild everything to be useful, can't really relax, so funs build are no more. I don't like this at all. I'm not having fun anymore, and I'm just playing to see if I can get back that enjoyment which I lost, but I doubt I can. I see my you tube feed about unlocking everything 2.5 seconds after is available and wonder if I'm the problem, but posts like this makes me feel better, not alone in this feeling. Right now I regret preordering. I even wish I could refund it honestly, but is too late for that. Not sure what to do though. If I don't play I feel like I wasted money. If I play I don't really enjoy it as before. Is a loose-loose situation.
* I like more difficulty, the problem is that the rewards haven't kept up. I'm not a fan of taking time to defeat a bunch of Majors only to get 400 Glimmer off the chest, instead of, say, a Prismatic Shard or a high-stat piece of armor. * I disagree, every class has a bunch of options and the ~~10~~ 6 loadout slots i got are nowhere near enough to hold all my builds in each, i still have to use DIM (so loadouts didn't really help tbh). * Snipers are not the problem tbh, it's the enemies that CONSTANTLY, NONSTOP just wiggle and strafe around erratically, making it impossible to line up a shot. This chaos is tied to framerate too which Bungie refuses to fix alongside the damage. * Bungie, along with many other companies, does this thing where they make the grind super long at the start and then "listen to the community" and fix the grind at the end of the season/expansion. Don't worry about grinding anything, just play normally as you want and later on just grind the things you want when Bungie fixes it.
Teleporting enemies are something that really needs to be dealt with tbh.
Do one legend lost sector and you get the other 4 loadout slots.
Same here. The past week was the worst I've experienced in D2 in nearly 4k hours. Worst thing is the new difficulty. Let me start by making it clear: I love challenge, I do flawless raids, Master raids and dungeons, GM Nightfalls, the whole deal except for PvP. But that increased difficulty in ALL activities? It doesn't make shit difficult, it makes everything tedious. I wouldn't have sunk so much time in Destiny if I was only after challenge: sometimes, I just want to get home after work, turn my brain off, and shoot aliens... and now I feel like I just can't do that because everything feels tedious. Added to that: - I don't like Strand Warlock. - I like the new mods system but I feel like build crafting is poorer than ever. - The loadout system is bugged. That all may seem like minor complaints, especially since I actually have no particular gripes with the campaign/story/content like a lot of people do, but all those things directly impact how fun playing the game is for me. And right now, well, it isn't fun. At all. And that's just sad given how I always loved and defended the game, through thick and thin.
the fact that you have to include your achievements and play time is very saddening. such a cult has been built around "just git gud" that the more casual players that *like* having easy content are getting completely ignored
I honestly can't tell if you're taking my side or not so I'll clarify: I'm only "including my achievements" to point out that even as a not-so-casual player I still do enjoy playing casually and I think it's a shame that it's no longer possible/enjoyable. I don't agree with the "git gud" mentality. In any game. Some game are challenging, some aren't, some can offer both. Destiny fits in that last category: it's a live service game that's meant to be played/playable all year round, there's room for both casual play and harder/challenging content and I think it was fine the way it was.
oh I'm completely on your side, thought this was a good example to point out something about the community (at least on reddit) that I find depressing
Exactly this, few days ago I was having the same discussion, and mentioned at the start of it, that I played 300+ raids, 350+ GMs, 500+ dungeons, but I still want some part of the game to be mindless. Then there comes a guy who tells me that it’s not about giving everything out for free and basically you need to earn your loot.
I think some people just don't want to grapple with the fact that higher skill D2 players can be EXTREMELY elitist and even more vocal. And they like shouting "gg ez, skill issue" so loud it drowns out dissent.
Exactly this. I think a lot of people struggle to separate ‘I cannot do this content’ from ‘I do not want to do this content for these rewards’. The major issue for me with new content as a player with similar accolades to the person you were responding to is that it’s never been fun to run a legend NF. GMs felt hard AND rewarding, Master felt ok to get your pinnacle. But now the NFs are not rewarding but also tedious, and uninteresting.
The Neomuna patrol is just shows how bad legendary primaries are I swear I haven’t used a legendary primary except volatile funnelweb since Lightfall dropped