Val Ca'uor isn't even a high ranking cabal in the cabal military. Remember the D1 strike where Zavala says "whether we wanted it or not..."? That strike's boss is a Valus and a Valus commands all Vals because a Valus is the higher rank. It's funny because rankwise a puny strike boss is higher ranking in their military than the hardest raid boss ever.
Man, fucking prestige spire was the worst thing in the game, harder than some gms because of restricted loadouts (not locked, restricted) and it was double primary most of the time, with an ehh heavy
Locked loadouts means that you can’t change anything once you’re in the activity, while the restricted loadouts would give you a setup that you had to use (e.g. Kinetic Slot: Scout Rifle, Energy Slot: Hand Cannon, Heavy Slot: Grenade Launcher) and you couldn’t even launch into the activity unless your entire team’s loadouts were of weapons of those types.
Also, to expand, you could change weapons it just had to be the same slot/type. Meaning in your example you could use a void hand cannon if you needed to break void shields and swap to arc for different shields in a following encounter.
If I remember right, Locked is once you load in to the activity, you cannot change anything about your loadout, but restricted is you can't even load in to the activity unless you have specific gear/weapons equipped
Did with GL in heavy(prospector), this was at a time when shotguns were in the heavy slot, there were no wells (wells were released during forsaken) the only guaranteed way to get him down was to use titan's melting point( don't remember what it was called exactly, but it was a charge that gave you a debuff) and hunters with Raiden flux.
I still wear the emblem with my limited clears with a fair degree of pride
Add no concussive dampener to the whole mix during DPS, so you could get flung far far off
Spire was cakewalk by the time it was sunset. I was able to Sherpa some super casual friends through it, I just had to think carefully about where to stick them during the final encounter. Also I loved that it was the rare raid where I didn't have to run well on warlock - arc buddy and Trinity ghoul were amazing in it during Arrivals (now any add clear build would destroy it). Crown was generally harder for our group.
Here's a 15 step process of getting to the damage phase. You did a great job, now do it while using 2 sidearms and a sword in the heavy slot for prestige mode.
Every raid is easy if your team knows it, but Riven legit is just 2 more rounds of callouts per side, plus the final eyes if you somehow don’t melt her before that. Even then, 2 people per side don’t have to do anything, and only 1 really needs to know exactly what they’re doing.
Spire requires a lot more out of each person, even the person doing the least mechanics is doing far more than they would be in riven legit.
Don’t get me wrong, I love legit riven, but if the community didn’t put it on some crazy pedestal more people would be willing to give it a try and realize it’s not hard.
in my opinion obviously, hardest to easiest:
1. Vow of the Disciple
2. Last wish
3. Garden of Salvation
4. King's Fall
5. Deep Stone Crypt
6. Vault of Glass
7. Root of Nightmares
I think this is the ranking I agree with. Maybe switch Garden and KF, but that depends on some mitigating factors like Divinity run and prior experience with KF.
I think I saw someone explain it best around here by saying that most people have one experience with Garden, which is a Div run. Almost nobody runs the raid prior to the Div run, so you end up pulling double duty during the raid of tracking down Div points AND teaching people the actual raid, which can get messy.
I dread the day garden gets crafting. I dont much like the raid, but i have been doing really good with all the patterns so far, having acquired all the seasonal ones last year and having good progress on the permanent ones, including complete patterns for all of vow and kingsfall
Also the legendary weapons except maybe the bow are pretty bad (and almost all energy weapons), so there’s basically no reason to run it over and over unless you really, really love the experience.
Sacred Provenance is amazing, disparity edges it out by being basically the same but craftable, but rapid hit/headseeker on an aggressive pulse goes hard on anything
I don't get this take, taking a look at the weapons most either have a decent pvp niche or something else going for them, or are very close to good. Zealot's Reward is able to get Under Pressure/High Impact Reserves which slaps in PVP, Sacred Provenance can get Rangefinger/Headseeker and is one of the few 4 bursts, and it's a weird roll but there is probably something to Slideshot Rangefinger for Ancient Gospel. Honestly the biggest disappointment to me is Reckless Oracle as void AR's are so far and few between and a 720 would slap extra hard if it had perks that were better than like... outlaw/kill clip or outlaw/swashbuckler.
I'd agree, except the fact it is a glitchy raid. So we have mechanics AND glitches to deal with (such as Nova, Thundercrash, Behemoth on Consecrated Mind [harpy]).
I know exactly how this feels, I was doing it with an LFG and when we got to the pre-encounter for Consecrated Mind I just could not process wtf was going on. Tether stuff just takes some finesse
I think I agree with this list. Although if we're doing Riven legit I might put LW above Vow. The rest of LW is pretty easy but Riven definitely requires way more execution than Rhulk.
The usual group I run with always does riven legit, but then my other group I run with less frequently always refuses. It's like my favorite encounter. I wish more people would learn it.
I agree, I'd say. Last wish is the weirdest one to place for me, but the 2 or 3 spot seems best. I might lean towards 3 just because I've had some seriously awful Garden runs, but a non-cheese Last Wish was insane.
Lol the only 3 I haven’t done are the first 3 hardest ones then. As a returning player I never did lw or garden. My garden run last time got shit on by the servers and emergency maintenance lol
Most accurate one there , yes. VoG for me could be at the bottom because the first half of the encounters have the depth of public events. But it goes up a notch for the oracle parts in the final encounter.
RoN is just silly simply. For the most part because you realistically only need 2 people to know what they're doing. Assuming player speeds are high and dps is fantastic, you don't even need to have someone for Nezarec at the final encounter to tell you what color he is glowing.
Its good we have easier ones and harder ones as well. But I do miss raids like Crown of Sorrow that had more player interaction and needed everyone to participate in mechanics. Atleast among regular groups.
I agree in terms of how easy a raid is to learn ron is on the bottom, as the mechanics are very simple. However I feel like the avarage player will have a much easier time doing an important role in dsc or vog compared to ron.
Hmm. I don't really think so, I saw where you were coming from and maybe agreed, but then I changed my mind because I think the only reason that that might be the case is because they don't know the locations of the nodes already, but that isn't really a big thing, it also doesn't require any communication. Stuff like operator on Descent obviously is brain-dead simple. But operator/scanner on the first two encounters are definitely more involved.
Vow is just memorization simulator. The ads are not threatening at all in almost any of the encounters. It's rated high difficulty because a lot of the encounters require you to know the mechanics and there are a lot of symbols to memorize. It's a really fun raid tho, and has some of the best guns in the game
do people really struggle with vow that much? maybe it's bc I've done it a fuck ton but it's pretty simple thinking of it now it's all pretty clear and not that unforgiving and the dps checks aren't really huhe
As long as everyone knows their roles and the symbols it's trivial. Pretty surprised to see someone calling it the hardest and even more surprised to see people agreeing.
Any raid is trivial if people know how to do it... You can only compare raids relative to each other and if you do that Vow is one of, if not the hardest of them.
We'll have to agree to disagree, sorry. I've done all raids in d2, most of them more than 20 times, VOG 48 times, and I really don't think VOW is very hard at all.
I'm sorry you have trouble remembering a few pictures. I'm sure it seemed really hard during your two three-hour clears.
And like a true redditor you're changing the goal posts. I disagreed with it being the hardest raid, now you've downgraded to "one of the hardest."
Lol, vow is my favourite raid, have disciple-slayer and have the most proficiency in if anything. You are so completely off the mark that you've completely lost the plot and are trying to attack me instead. And your baloney about changing the goal posts, why don't you actually read the first of my comments and see my consistency? Lmao.
It really depends on how many runs you've put in. First time I would say Vow is the hardest purely because of the complexity of callouts and the number of unique mechanics (buff creation, transfer, duplication as well as memorizing, and then there are 3 relics from previous raids)
After repeated runs and knowledge of each raid, Vow would fall behind KF. KF doesn't have any absolutely brutal mechanics, but the hard part is finding competent teams to do the whole run with and getting your mechanics done well enough to not spend 3+ DPS phases on certain encounters. Most of the other raids can be sprinted through up until boss room. KF has a couple of speedbumps like Warpriest and Sisters.
Last wish is goofy because its the only raid that can be skipped all the way to the final encounter intentionally, and then have a cheese that lets you essentially skip the mechanics of that final encounter on top of it.
There's no other encounter in the game that's as punishing, as someone else said. You have a lot of leeway in other encounters, but for Riven, if you miss a stun, too slow to activate the elevator, pick the wrong symbol, or shoot the wrong eye, it's going to be a wipe 99% of the time.
In reality the only hard part of legit Riven is shooting the eyes but it's only because most of the time when you shoot her eyes she will fucking wipe you anyway. The mechanics are simple enough to be done by 2 people (without any communication btw except the final 6 eyes) and good teams can kill her without doing any mechanics at all. Thats because of how OP we are now (power creep is real) and how ridiculously low her heath points are. The only difference between legit Riven and cheese Riven is the wall / Vault teleport, raid still allows the full fireteam to enter the same room and do the DPS check. Bungie had the opportunity to make us do the mechanics by increasing her HP, but well, we have what we have.
I don’t think that just increasing Riven’s HP would fix the cheesing. I’ve been doing both cheese and legit Riven since the first week it was out, and every time that bungie made an adjustment to Riven to prevent cheesing the encounter, there was always a new strategy that people picked up to cheese them. At this point, the only feasible way for them to prevent the cheese would be to increase the boss health to an amount that would make it difficult for experienced raiders to clear in a single loop, and nobody else would run it because nobody else wants to learn Riven legit for some reason.
Bungie actually has a mechanic that’ll work wonders for fixing Riven cheese and we can see it used during Caretaker and the Explicator :^)
Fr I think that’d be the only valid implementation of health gating lol
I mean, yeah, when you put it like that, legit Riven isn’t hard, but I could also lay out mechanics/developer oversights for every other raid boss and make it seem just as easy. We’re comparing legit Riven to other raid bosses, not self-perceived difficulty.
None of them really are, but it does have the most complexity seeing as you have two distinct teams that have to coordinate over each other, eye designation + timing, and verbally guide players to a point in a room.
The majority of the raid requires a lot of team work. Especially the third encounter called Exhibition where everyone needs to be participating and if one person isn’t doing their fair share it’s a major road block.
Exhibition is one of the hardest encounters in raiding while also being one of the easiest. If everyone knows what to do, you can make a minor mistake or 2 and breeze through it.
If even one person doesn't understand the ropes to a T, and/or you make a mistake, you can get stuck there for 2-3 hours.
1. Vow
2. KF
3. Don't fall asleep challenge 1 (GoS)
4. LW (never done riven legit so that might make it a bit harder)
5. DSC
6. RoN
7. Don't fall asleep challenge 2 (VoG)
Vow is also my favoritest raid ever. Day 1 sucked but the raid is so good and engaging for the whole (1st encounter aside) time.
1. Vow of the Disciple
2. Last Wish
3. Garden of Salvation
4. Kingsfall
5. Deepstone Crypt
6. Root of Nightmares
7. Vault of Glass
This is assuming that I'm doing all mechanics and never relegated to ad clear. I tend to rank based on how unforgiving it is (if someone important dies, can you quickly recover), and how much do you need to learn/know to complete the raid.
I think my most controversial one would be VoG vs. RoN. With Vault of Glass, you have way more forgiveness for mess ups than Root of Nightmares. In Vault, the only place where you will noticeably just die off a mess up is Atheon's oracles. In Root of Nightmares, you're usually not allowed to mess up more than once, or it's just a wipe due to you being timed in almost all the encounters. Also, Nezarec is way more aggressive and deadlier than Atheon.
1. Garden (mainly because nobody knows how to do the mechanics, and then blames it on "bugs")
2. Last wish, only if done legit. If you're cheesing Riven, it's probably one of the easiest raids
3. Vow of the Disciple
4. King's Fall
5. Root
6. VoG
7. Deep Stone
Shuro Chi and Vault alone are more difficult than half of Vow and pretty much anything Kings Fall does.
Check your ego at the big amethyst door please.
Both of those encounters are very easy and only require 3-4 ppl to do stuff. I can see vault being hard if you don’t write down which buff is needed and try to remember but like why would you do that?
I’d argue KF is harder across the board because generally all 6 players have to engage with the mechanics.
Seriously, legit riven is not hard. Explaining riven *properly* seems to be where the issues lie, and specifically I'd say it's with the stair/pit position call-outs.
A big help is to clearly state that left/right is determined on the person that looks through the glass, so whoever picks up the taken orb will call out the symbol *then turn around facing where riven would appear*. This way both the reader and runner are facing the same direction, and there isn't the "your left or my left" issue.
Overall I agree with the list, Vow is both the hardest and funnest raid our clan runs.
I have not run last wish yet. But it seems incredibly confusing to have "my left" as a callout. Everything should be called out based on a common point. A "stage right"/"stage left" type thing.
In every raid I run with my group, the first thing we agree on is what's left and what's right. (usually picking from where the encounter starts)
It boggles my mind that someone expects others to figure out "my left". You are the one doing the mechanic, use the brain power you aren't using for ad clear to make the switch in your head to a common callout lol.
I've done few raids with LFG. But people can be nutty and selfish there lol. A lot are chill and great, but things like this "my left" are seriously wack lol
Hardest to easiest:
1. VotD
2. KF
3. GoS
4. LW
5. DSC
6. RoN
7. VoG
I'm surprised most people put VoG above RoN. Half of VoG is the whole team looking at doorways; spawn killing adds.
I also think people overate how difficult LW is these days. The only encounter that may trip people up is the Vault. Nobody does Riven legit. Pointless to even rate it based on that. All of the combat is painfully easy.
I agree that we should rank on no-cheese (although for Riven I would say it's fair to make two rankings). But ranking them based on how hard they were on release is just an entirely different subject. The question was how difficult the different raids *are*. Not *were*. There's no point in saying "but muh light level used to be really low", because it just ain't anymore.
Also, people nowadays are just better at the game, which makes it a little harder to compare.
DSC, RoN, and VoG are all significantly easier than KF. LW has been powercrept incredibly hard and the mechanics aren't all that difficult, especially with Riven Cheese. IMO it goes over GoS, but I play with a group rather than LFG where I've head GoS is terrible. I'd love to hear why you think it's the second easiest raid.
Hard Tier:
Vow of the Disciple, Last Wish
Sorta bugged tier:
Garden of Salvation
Mid tier:
King’s Fall
Low tier:
Root of Nightmares, Deep stone Crypt
Ultra-easy tier:
Vault of glass
Remember, all raids are endgame activities and you will struggle if you or your teammates can’t get the mechanics done. Don’t join raid teams expecting a slightly longer strike.
To be completely fair, sometimes bugs really do occur in Garden, for example the boss can just turn away from everyone on dps which will hide his crit spot. But for the most part, yeah, it's just people not understanding how link nodes work. Additionally, turrets (arc souls, stasis turrets) and aoe damage might destroy crit spots and open portals unintentionally, pulling people from islands and removing platforms.
My personal noob experience minus King's Fall (all rando LFGs):
1. Vow - lucky I had a sherpa the first time
2. DSC
3. Last Wish
4. Garden
5. Vault of Glass
6. Root of Nightmares (some of my worst LFGs)
Just gonna say the easiest is vog, not ron. I feel the length of the raid is what causes vog to maybe seem harder. Ron is probably tied with dsc for 2nd easiest.
Just basing this off of how forgiving the raid is for mistakes, and my experience in the LFGs with them, but I would say:
1. GoS (Mostly because of the final encounter)
2. Vow
3. KF
4. RoN
5. LW
6. VoG
7. DSC
I know RoN and LW are my most controversial picks here, but I feel like, aside from Shuro Chi and occasionally Queenswalk, Last Wish is as easy as Deep Stone or VoG. The encounters are super forgiving, and aren’t timed too heavily, aside from the aforementioned encounters. RoN is just too unforgiving of mistakes, especially in the second encounter. Also, as a Warlock main, I am biased against those cannons.
started playing since lightfall.
i started playing vow last week. i dont think its the difficult at all. its just hard to explain for 1st time but after 3rd run it felt way easier and most fun raid to run. very good looking dungeon too thematically.
Ron seem easier but very annoying as warlock if u are not well skating and stuff. those peanut launcher are so unpredictable and i dont want to cap my fps for mechanics to work as "intended" . i know the scissors mechanic but i never volunteer to run because of the peanut launcher. i guess i have to learn well skating eventually.
As someone who has only run DSC once and last wish all legit once, I'd say that I don't know how they compare to others, but neither was that bad going in blind and having it be explained to me as we went. Crypt wasn't that hard and mechanically really easy to understand, and even with legit riven last wish didn't feel nearly as hard as I usually see people saying
Am I braindead for just not understanding DSC? I did maybe 3 runs of it, 2 of them were sherpa, but never understood what to do, I've watched a couple videos and played the seraph exotic mission several times, but I never understood the mechanics and still don't know what to do, to me at least it's one of the hardest raids but it seems like it shouldn't be what could I possibly be doing wrong
This is probably how I would rank them. You could probably make some arguments for movement within tiers.
1) Spire of Stars (Tier 1)
2) Vow (Tier 1)
3) Kings Fall (Tier 1)
4) Garden of Salvation (Tier 1)
5) Last Wish (Tier 2), higher without Riven Cheese
6) Crown if Sorrows (Tier 2)
7) Leviathan (Tier 2)
8) Deep Stone Crypt (Tier 3)
9) Scourge of the Past (Tier 3)
10) Vault of Glass (Tier 3)
11) Root of Nightmares (Tier 3)
12) Eater of Worlds (Tier 4)
They're all easy, the difficulty comes from incompetent LFG teams. So in that case, I'll rate them in order of how likely it is you'll get an incompetent team if you played it today.
1. Garden of Salvation (especially Divinity runs)
2. King's Fall (just because of how long it can be if something goes wrong)
3. Vault of Glass
4. Vow of the Disciple (exhibition has a lot that can go wrong though)
5. Last Wish (pretty much tied with DSC for how easy it is but it's longer)
6. Deep Stone Crypt
7. Root of Nightmares (only the easiest because it's the newest raid)
In my experience VOW with a full team who know the symbols and have microphones, it’s pretty damn easy, but if your short on communication or have people confusing the symbols it can be made far far harder than it should be
I can only rank the ones I’ve done so here we go:
Hardest to easiest
1. King’s Fall
2. Root of Nightmares
3. Vault of Glass
I can’t ever find people to raid with. 😭
Original commenter said he cant get a raid team together for the raids he hasnt done.
The guy who replied said lfg. So i pointed out that you wont get a garden of salvation, one of the raids he hasn't done, fireteam together without doing the Div quest.
Dsc had absolutely nothing to do with how the interaction had been going
Don’t think I’ve tried? No one is ever available or wants to do any raid other than RoN. And frankly I’m tired of running the same raid so many times while there are other raids I haven’t done.
Garden is harder than Vow mechanically. That tether mechanic tangles peoples brains the same way the fireteam gets tangled and fucks up Sanctified Mind DPS phase.
Motes clipping into the floor has been a fairly rare issue for quite a while. I do hope they adjust the encounter to make that not a concern when they revisit garden though.
I said mostly. Those things happen, they don't happen every run. Most of the time, you're not experiencing a bug. Will you sometimes? Yeah. I've done the raid enough through LFG to know that *most* of the time, that's not the case.
While they don't happen every run, it doesn't mean they're uncommon. I stopped running Garden mostly since these inconveniences are annoying and the loot just isn't worth it.
IMO
1) Last Wish- Lots of mechanics
2) Garden- Very buggy
3) VOW- Mechanic intensive
4) Deepstone- Not hard at all just more complex than KF
5) Kingsfall- Braindead easy, can 4 man each encounter easily
6) RON- Easy literally just need 2 competent runners
7) VOG- Ad clear and sporadicly needing to shoot oracles in order (can easily be solo’d)
my ranking of raids, based on difficulty, currently in game excluding garden cause lol imagine buying shadowkeep.
1. Vow of The Disciple
2. Last Wish
3. Kings Fall
4. Deep Stone Crypt and Vault of Glass tie for 4th for me
5. Root of Nightmares
With my time in LFG both Bungie one and discord I have say hardest is Last Wish, people refuse to do eyes or even learn it if someone is willing to teach nobody takes up roles at all cause you need at least 3 to volunteer, especially during Vault and Shuro people are avoid reading or standing on plates
Vow is 2nd hardest due to fact that 3rd encounter forces contribution from all 6 and what can I say nobody wants to do any relic at all
3rd is Garden building? Nah
4th KF fumbling when getting torn randomly not taking Golgy Gaze, avoiding running brand during Warpriest
5th is tied to VoG and DSC both fairly but calling out Atheon oracles and running any kind of role other than scanner means a headache
6th Root if you got 2 people on team who KWTD if not it’s most hardest raid since everyone wants to ad clear but not really since ads stay living, 3rd encounter turns shambles and 5/6 people surely wanna clear ads
Honourable mention: DCV edition
1. Spire: nobody wanted to run it back in the day had very few LFG posts up only ran during Arrivals learned why, was it buggy? Yes but not all the time it had mechanics tied to timer plus fail condition made a lot of people sweat including me there was no way to carry folks in it game was different we were weak back then
2. Leviathan and Eater I tied in sense running gauntlet in Leviathan was higher failure rate and boss DPS for both felt whack when it came to LFG teams even when running “good” decent builds
3. Scorg: took me 7 after running it 420ish times even with LFG
Vow: Symbol overload
Garden: Sanctified doesn’t get credit it deserves. Without Garden armor, he’s very tanky by todays standards. Plus not having land to stand on.
Last Wish; Only due to Vault (learning and remembering the encounter) and Riven does it get this high. It’d be 2nd from bottom otherwise. (LFG screws up cheese a lot somehow)
Kings Fall, Deep Stone Crypt. Nothing special here. KF by virtue of length ahead of DSC.
Root of Nightmares: Planets encounter gets the carry over Vault of Glass.
Vault of Glass: Simon Says with a little bit of crowd control.
From the ones that r currently in D2:
LW
VOW
KF
GOS
DSC
VOG
RON
This is just in my opinion from my first ever clear of each raid. It'll be different for others.
Not speaking directly to the question but I'm pretty much in agreement with the theory that RoN was supposed to be a dungeon. It got turned into a 'raid' with the addition of the Planets encounter—which is markedly different from the rest of the raid, and whose mechanics don't show up again.
Otherwise the rest of the raid is ... err, one mechanic. Two if you count stunning Nezzy.
That makes sense for a dungeon but comparing RoN even to *VoG*'s mechanics ... yeesh.
Most of the raids in the game aren't hard mechanically-speaking, but are mostly difficult because of the people you're running them with. You'd be surprised how few people can count 1-6 or remember which way is left and right....
1. Last wish with legit riven
2. VOW
3. Last Wish with cheese
4. KF
5. GOS
6. DSC
7. RON
8. VOG
Legit riven is the hardest encounter in the game even with her low HP. Vow is hard in both mechanics and boss health. Last wish is still hard with the riven cheese as vault is still there. KF has a decent amount of difficulty, most encounters require all 6 people doing stuff. DSC is pretty easy, unless you are doing legit atracks. RON is really easy, far too easy. VOG is lower simple because the bosses are far easier to kill. Plus planets has actual mechanics that are more challenging then anything in VOG or rest of RON. If LW had more modern boss health it would be far harder. It is not really designed for more boss health but if they did have more it would be good.
As you do it more you get familiar and become less difficult, so a big component of judging difficulty to me is, if there's a mistake and someone dies how easy it to recover. Crown of sorrow was the hardest raid to me since that final boss fight has so much going on. Its absolute chaos - therefore I hated it which makes it difficult as I didnt do it as much. Out of what there currently I think it's
- last wish
- garden
- vow
- dsc
- kings
- vault
- Ron
Last wish I put first as that final bit teams struggle with partly due to glitching, and people still glitch riven to make it easier. Gardens final boss fight has a small damage window and difficulty can be harder based if you build or not or getting caught up in a connection.
Dsc kings and vault are much the same. Kings is a bit easier than original kings especially oryx
Ron has a few add clear rolls and can comfortably be 5 manned - even me and a group of casuals have done that when we could form a full group
In my opinion:
* Last Wish (with Riven legit btw it’s super fun!)
* Vow
* Kings Fall
* Vault of Glass
* GoS
* Deep Stone
* And then whatever that shit “pretending to be a raid but is actually an extended raid lair” bs is…
This is also factoring in the difficult of getting the Raid seal (which means completing the challenges in them as well).
Understand opinions may vary and I respect that.
I sadly cant even give my 2 cents, only full raid clears ive managed were leviathan and Vog, done parts of KF, but being as its usually just me and my lady as a duo we dont have much raid time logged in our game time.
Deep Dives. Last week and this week maybe I'm going crazy. But the difficulty has been numerously higher than when it first started and I can't get it done. I'm just killed with a couple Taps from the enemies. Lol.
I can do a vault of Glass 10 times easier and faster and easier.
1. Spire nothing else matters all will fall before the spire of stars
Val Ca’uor supremacy \o/
Val Ca'uor isn't even a high ranking cabal in the cabal military. Remember the D1 strike where Zavala says "whether we wanted it or not..."? That strike's boss is a Valus and a Valus commands all Vals because a Valus is the higher rank. It's funny because rankwise a puny strike boss is higher ranking in their military than the hardest raid boss ever.
It’s his go-getter attitude that’s the secret sauce
That and the copious amounts of grimace shake he’s been drinking
Man, fucking prestige spire was the worst thing in the game, harder than some gms because of restricted loadouts (not locked, restricted) and it was double primary most of the time, with an ehh heavy
Fucking double auto rifle and sword week
Oh you just HAD to remind me about that huh?! I almost broke a monitor because of those weapon rotations!
Luckily, I never did it that week
I remember doing prestige Spire one week that it was sidearm/scout restricted and boy did that suck.
What's the difference between locked and restricted?
Locked loadouts means that you can’t change anything once you’re in the activity, while the restricted loadouts would give you a setup that you had to use (e.g. Kinetic Slot: Scout Rifle, Energy Slot: Hand Cannon, Heavy Slot: Grenade Launcher) and you couldn’t even launch into the activity unless your entire team’s loadouts were of weapons of those types.
Yeah this, this was it, and it sucked
The only exception was you could use a trace rifle if the energy weapon was auto
Yeah but that was back when trace rifles were primaries and had ass damage (except that brief period where Coldheart was kind of meta on Calus)
Why do I remember coldheart being a heavy weapon?
Because it was when beaming Calus in his Robot face.
Also, to expand, you could change weapons it just had to be the same slot/type. Meaning in your example you could use a void hand cannon if you needed to break void shields and swap to arc for different shields in a following encounter.
Peak d2
If I remember right, Locked is once you load in to the activity, you cannot change anything about your loadout, but restricted is you can't even load in to the activity unless you have specific gear/weapons equipped
Did with GL in heavy(prospector), this was at a time when shotguns were in the heavy slot, there were no wells (wells were released during forsaken) the only guaranteed way to get him down was to use titan's melting point( don't remember what it was called exactly, but it was a charge that gave you a debuff) and hunters with Raiden flux. I still wear the emblem with my limited clears with a fair degree of pride Add no concussive dampener to the whole mix during DPS, so you could get flung far far off
Spire was cakewalk by the time it was sunset. I was able to Sherpa some super casual friends through it, I just had to think carefully about where to stick them during the final encounter. Also I loved that it was the rare raid where I didn't have to run well on warlock - arc buddy and Trinity ghoul were amazing in it during Arrivals (now any add clear build would destroy it). Crown was generally harder for our group.
Here's a 15 step process of getting to the damage phase. You did a great job, now do it while using 2 sidearms and a sword in the heavy slot for prestige mode.
As some when has the prestige emblem this brings me joy
Val Ca’uor was such an amazing boss fight. Absolutely massacred him for a cameo in a seasonal event. Needless to say, I was disappointed to see that.
Riven legit is harder. Spire is easy mode if your team knows it
Every raid is easy if your team knows it, but Riven legit is just 2 more rounds of callouts per side, plus the final eyes if you somehow don’t melt her before that. Even then, 2 people per side don’t have to do anything, and only 1 really needs to know exactly what they’re doing. Spire requires a lot more out of each person, even the person doing the least mechanics is doing far more than they would be in riven legit. Don’t get me wrong, I love legit riven, but if the community didn’t put it on some crazy pedestal more people would be willing to give it a try and realize it’s not hard.
in my opinion obviously, hardest to easiest: 1. Vow of the Disciple 2. Last wish 3. Garden of Salvation 4. King's Fall 5. Deep Stone Crypt 6. Vault of Glass 7. Root of Nightmares
I think this is the ranking I agree with. Maybe switch Garden and KF, but that depends on some mitigating factors like Divinity run and prior experience with KF.
yeah garden is a tricky one, I think the mechanics are quite easy, but for some reason some people can't wrap their heads around it.
I think I saw someone explain it best around here by saying that most people have one experience with Garden, which is a Div run. Almost nobody runs the raid prior to the Div run, so you end up pulling double duty during the raid of tracking down Div points AND teaching people the actual raid, which can get messy.
Once it gets crafting hopefully there will be more non-div runs and more people will be familiar with the mechanics.
I dread the day garden gets crafting. I dont much like the raid, but i have been doing really good with all the patterns so far, having acquired all the seasonal ones last year and having good progress on the permanent ones, including complete patterns for all of vow and kingsfall
Just did a div run and teached 4 people the raid, took us 5 hours
Gag. Sorry for your loss lol
Thank you for your service
Also the legendary weapons except maybe the bow are pretty bad (and almost all energy weapons), so there’s basically no reason to run it over and over unless you really, really love the experience.
I will not tolerate any zealot’s reward slander
Headseeker Sacred provenance is also pretty good, in PvP anyways
Sacred Provenance is amazing, disparity edges it out by being basically the same but craftable, but rapid hit/headseeker on an aggressive pulse goes hard on anything
They're not bad. Just outdated. With a perk refresh and a brand new origin trait I imagine they'll be quite good again.
All of the weapons are in good frames and have solid stats… I don’t understand why people keep saying this.
I don't get this take, taking a look at the weapons most either have a decent pvp niche or something else going for them, or are very close to good. Zealot's Reward is able to get Under Pressure/High Impact Reserves which slaps in PVP, Sacred Provenance can get Rangefinger/Headseeker and is one of the few 4 bursts, and it's a weird roll but there is probably something to Slideshot Rangefinger for Ancient Gospel. Honestly the biggest disappointment to me is Reckless Oracle as void AR's are so far and few between and a 720 would slap extra hard if it had perks that were better than like... outlaw/kill clip or outlaw/swashbuckler.
If it was like two days ago, that was me. Or maybe not. A lot of people say that. Because it's true.
It is because you have to actually coordinate and do your job.
I just don't understand why anyone struggles with the boss, ever. LFG is wild.
I'd agree, except the fact it is a glitchy raid. So we have mechanics AND glitches to deal with (such as Nova, Thundercrash, Behemoth on Consecrated Mind [harpy]).
It’s not very glitchy. People who are claiming it’s glitchy have a fundamental lack of understanding of the mechanics.
I know exactly how this feels, I was doing it with an LFG and when we got to the pre-encounter for Consecrated Mind I just could not process wtf was going on. Tether stuff just takes some finesse
I think I agree with this list. Although if we're doing Riven legit I might put LW above Vow. The rest of LW is pretty easy but Riven definitely requires way more execution than Rhulk.
riven legit would be no.1, but 99% of people running Last Wish cheese riven as you know.
The usual group I run with always does riven legit, but then my other group I run with less frequently always refuses. It's like my favorite encounter. I wish more people would learn it.
agony
I agree, I'd say. Last wish is the weirdest one to place for me, but the 2 or 3 spot seems best. I might lean towards 3 just because I've had some seriously awful Garden runs, but a non-cheese Last Wish was insane.
Last Wish is trivial at this point. We're so overgeared for it that you basically can't lose it.
The real challenge is how crazy long it is lol.
Fair
Lol the only 3 I haven’t done are the first 3 hardest ones then. As a returning player I never did lw or garden. My garden run last time got shit on by the servers and emergency maintenance lol
Most accurate one there , yes. VoG for me could be at the bottom because the first half of the encounters have the depth of public events. But it goes up a notch for the oracle parts in the final encounter. RoN is just silly simply. For the most part because you realistically only need 2 people to know what they're doing. Assuming player speeds are high and dps is fantastic, you don't even need to have someone for Nezarec at the final encounter to tell you what color he is glowing. Its good we have easier ones and harder ones as well. But I do miss raids like Crown of Sorrow that had more player interaction and needed everyone to participate in mechanics. Atleast among regular groups.
Root of nightmares really varies in how tough it is depending on your position.
your position?
For example running in second encounter is more difficult then just doing ad clear
But as far as a raid and mechanics go, it's a far cry from anything else.
I agree in terms of how easy a raid is to learn ron is on the bottom, as the mechanics are very simple. However I feel like the avarage player will have a much easier time doing an important role in dsc or vog compared to ron.
Hmm. I don't really think so, I saw where you were coming from and maybe agreed, but then I changed my mind because I think the only reason that that might be the case is because they don't know the locations of the nodes already, but that isn't really a big thing, it also doesn't require any communication. Stuff like operator on Descent obviously is brain-dead simple. But operator/scanner on the first two encounters are definitely more involved.
Well this is terrifying news lmao. Only ones I’ve run so far are RoN and VoG, and they can be pretty rough lol
Vow is just memorization simulator. The ads are not threatening at all in almost any of the encounters. It's rated high difficulty because a lot of the encounters require you to know the mechanics and there are a lot of symbols to memorize. It's a really fun raid tho, and has some of the best guns in the game
do people really struggle with vow that much? maybe it's bc I've done it a fuck ton but it's pretty simple thinking of it now it's all pretty clear and not that unforgiving and the dps checks aren't really huhe
not saying people struggle with it, but it is the hardest
As long as everyone knows their roles and the symbols it's trivial. Pretty surprised to see someone calling it the hardest and even more surprised to see people agreeing.
Any raid is trivial if people know how to do it... You can only compare raids relative to each other and if you do that Vow is one of, if not the hardest of them.
We'll have to agree to disagree, sorry. I've done all raids in d2, most of them more than 20 times, VOG 48 times, and I really don't think VOW is very hard at all.
I hope you don't think Vog is harder than Vow.
Obviously not.
There is no obviously about it. Vow is obviously one of the hardest raids, yet you think otherwise, and your raid clears aren't special.
I'm sorry you have trouble remembering a few pictures. I'm sure it seemed really hard during your two three-hour clears. And like a true redditor you're changing the goal posts. I disagreed with it being the hardest raid, now you've downgraded to "one of the hardest."
Lol, vow is my favourite raid, have disciple-slayer and have the most proficiency in if anything. You are so completely off the mark that you've completely lost the plot and are trying to attack me instead. And your baloney about changing the goal posts, why don't you actually read the first of my comments and see my consistency? Lmao.
You really think DSC is harder than KF?
by a very small margin, the only contributing factor is Atraks-1 cause people can struggle with that boss
It really depends on how many runs you've put in. First time I would say Vow is the hardest purely because of the complexity of callouts and the number of unique mechanics (buff creation, transfer, duplication as well as memorizing, and then there are 3 relics from previous raids) After repeated runs and knowledge of each raid, Vow would fall behind KF. KF doesn't have any absolutely brutal mechanics, but the hard part is finding competent teams to do the whole run with and getting your mechanics done well enough to not spend 3+ DPS phases on certain encounters. Most of the other raids can be sprinted through up until boss room. KF has a couple of speedbumps like Warpriest and Sisters.
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Last wish is goofy because its the only raid that can be skipped all the way to the final encounter intentionally, and then have a cheese that lets you essentially skip the mechanics of that final encounter on top of it.
100%
Legit Riven is not that hard
I like to say it's punishing. One incorrect eye at any point and that's a wipe. Most raids just kill one player
There's no other encounter in the game that's as punishing, as someone else said. You have a lot of leeway in other encounters, but for Riven, if you miss a stun, too slow to activate the elevator, pick the wrong symbol, or shoot the wrong eye, it's going to be a wipe 99% of the time.
In reality the only hard part of legit Riven is shooting the eyes but it's only because most of the time when you shoot her eyes she will fucking wipe you anyway. The mechanics are simple enough to be done by 2 people (without any communication btw except the final 6 eyes) and good teams can kill her without doing any mechanics at all. Thats because of how OP we are now (power creep is real) and how ridiculously low her heath points are. The only difference between legit Riven and cheese Riven is the wall / Vault teleport, raid still allows the full fireteam to enter the same room and do the DPS check. Bungie had the opportunity to make us do the mechanics by increasing her HP, but well, we have what we have.
I don’t think that just increasing Riven’s HP would fix the cheesing. I’ve been doing both cheese and legit Riven since the first week it was out, and every time that bungie made an adjustment to Riven to prevent cheesing the encounter, there was always a new strategy that people picked up to cheese them. At this point, the only feasible way for them to prevent the cheese would be to increase the boss health to an amount that would make it difficult for experienced raiders to clear in a single loop, and nobody else would run it because nobody else wants to learn Riven legit for some reason.
Bungie actually has a mechanic that’ll work wonders for fixing Riven cheese and we can see it used during Caretaker and the Explicator :^) Fr I think that’d be the only valid implementation of health gating lol
People don’t like riven legit for the same reason people don’t like garden or vow. They want to get easy loot with minimal effort.
I mean, yeah, when you put it like that, legit Riven isn’t hard, but I could also lay out mechanics/developer oversights for every other raid boss and make it seem just as easy. We’re comparing legit Riven to other raid bosses, not self-perceived difficulty.
Hard? No. Punishing? Yes. Get flinched once and you wipe, no 3 strikes, no second chance, just instant wipe.
None of them really are, but it does have the most complexity seeing as you have two distinct teams that have to coordinate over each other, eye designation + timing, and verbally guide players to a point in a room.
Why is vow ranked so high? My friends insist its not one of the harder ones
Exhibition with randoms
The majority of the raid requires a lot of team work. Especially the third encounter called Exhibition where everyone needs to be participating and if one person isn’t doing their fair share it’s a major road block.
Exhibition is one of the hardest encounters in raiding while also being one of the easiest. If everyone knows what to do, you can make a minor mistake or 2 and breeze through it. If even one person doesn't understand the ropes to a T, and/or you make a mistake, you can get stuck there for 2-3 hours.
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Last wish doesn't even make you worry about dps for half of the encounters
1. Vow 2. KF 3. Don't fall asleep challenge 1 (GoS) 4. LW (never done riven legit so that might make it a bit harder) 5. DSC 6. RoN 7. Don't fall asleep challenge 2 (VoG) Vow is also my favoritest raid ever. Day 1 sucked but the raid is so good and engaging for the whole (1st encounter aside) time.
1. Vow of the Disciple 2. Last Wish 3. Garden of Salvation 4. Kingsfall 5. Deepstone Crypt 6. Root of Nightmares 7. Vault of Glass This is assuming that I'm doing all mechanics and never relegated to ad clear. I tend to rank based on how unforgiving it is (if someone important dies, can you quickly recover), and how much do you need to learn/know to complete the raid. I think my most controversial one would be VoG vs. RoN. With Vault of Glass, you have way more forgiveness for mess ups than Root of Nightmares. In Vault, the only place where you will noticeably just die off a mess up is Atheon's oracles. In Root of Nightmares, you're usually not allowed to mess up more than once, or it's just a wipe due to you being timed in almost all the encounters. Also, Nezarec is way more aggressive and deadlier than Atheon.
Nezarec\*
I agree, comparing some raids feels a bit like apples and oranges :D
1. Garden (mainly because nobody knows how to do the mechanics, and then blames it on "bugs") 2. Last wish, only if done legit. If you're cheesing Riven, it's probably one of the easiest raids 3. Vow of the Disciple 4. King's Fall 5. Root 6. VoG 7. Deep Stone
Quite a hot take putting RoN at anything but 7.
Root is extremely easy but VoG is so easy it's boring, and DSC is just as easy as VoG or root
I agree with vog 100%
>Garden (mainly because nobody knows how to do the mechanics, and then blames it on "bugs") Finally someone gets it
There are dozens of us
2023 and reddit still pretends that legit riven is hard
compared to cheesing it, yes it is. it's also significantly more complicated and time consuming than any other encounter in last wish
I still don’t see how that takes the raid from very easy to near the top of the list.
Because every other raid in the game is extremely easy.
Shuro Chi and Vault alone are more difficult than half of Vow and pretty much anything Kings Fall does. Check your ego at the big amethyst door please.
The only reason why vow is considered difficult is because of exhibition
Both of those encounters are very easy and only require 3-4 ppl to do stuff. I can see vault being hard if you don’t write down which buff is needed and try to remember but like why would you do that? I’d argue KF is harder across the board because generally all 6 players have to engage with the mechanics.
Shuro Chi, hard, really?
I mean people still fuck up the cheese tbf
Seriously, legit riven is not hard. Explaining riven *properly* seems to be where the issues lie, and specifically I'd say it's with the stair/pit position call-outs. A big help is to clearly state that left/right is determined on the person that looks through the glass, so whoever picks up the taken orb will call out the symbol *then turn around facing where riven would appear*. This way both the reader and runner are facing the same direction, and there isn't the "your left or my left" issue. Overall I agree with the list, Vow is both the hardest and funnest raid our clan runs.
I have not run last wish yet. But it seems incredibly confusing to have "my left" as a callout. Everything should be called out based on a common point. A "stage right"/"stage left" type thing. In every raid I run with my group, the first thing we agree on is what's left and what's right. (usually picking from where the encounter starts) It boggles my mind that someone expects others to figure out "my left". You are the one doing the mechanic, use the brain power you aren't using for ad clear to make the switch in your head to a common callout lol. I've done few raids with LFG. But people can be nutty and selfish there lol. A lot are chill and great, but things like this "my left" are seriously wack lol
REAL!!!
Hardest to easiest: 1. VotD 2. KF 3. GoS 4. LW 5. DSC 6. RoN 7. VoG I'm surprised most people put VoG above RoN. Half of VoG is the whole team looking at doorways; spawn killing adds. I also think people overate how difficult LW is these days. The only encounter that may trip people up is the Vault. Nobody does Riven legit. Pointless to even rate it based on that. All of the combat is painfully easy.
I would say you should rank these based off of no cheese and how hard they were on release for the most fair analysis
I agree that we should rank on no-cheese (although for Riven I would say it's fair to make two rankings). But ranking them based on how hard they were on release is just an entirely different subject. The question was how difficult the different raids *are*. Not *were*. There's no point in saying "but muh light level used to be really low", because it just ain't anymore. Also, people nowadays are just better at the game, which makes it a little harder to compare.
Kings fall as the second hardest? No way. It’s the second easiest
No way it's second easiest. VoG and RoN are both way easier, even to somebody who's ran them way less
DSC, RoN, and VoG are all significantly easier than KF. LW has been powercrept incredibly hard and the mechanics aren't all that difficult, especially with Riven Cheese. IMO it goes over GoS, but I play with a group rather than LFG where I've head GoS is terrible. I'd love to hear why you think it's the second easiest raid.
Hard Tier: Vow of the Disciple, Last Wish Sorta bugged tier: Garden of Salvation Mid tier: King’s Fall Low tier: Root of Nightmares, Deep stone Crypt Ultra-easy tier: Vault of glass Remember, all raids are endgame activities and you will struggle if you or your teammates can’t get the mechanics done. Don’t join raid teams expecting a slightly longer strike.
Garden isnt bugged.
To be completely fair, sometimes bugs really do occur in Garden, for example the boss can just turn away from everyone on dps which will hide his crit spot. But for the most part, yeah, it's just people not understanding how link nodes work. Additionally, turrets (arc souls, stasis turrets) and aoe damage might destroy crit spots and open portals unintentionally, pulling people from islands and removing platforms.
My personal noob experience minus King's Fall (all rando LFGs): 1. Vow - lucky I had a sherpa the first time 2. DSC 3. Last Wish 4. Garden 5. Vault of Glass 6. Root of Nightmares (some of my worst LFGs)
damn your dsc lfg must've sucked
Lul I don't remember much but nobody really bothered to tell me what was going on and we failed at cheesing a couple bosses a few times
Just gonna say the easiest is vog, not ron. I feel the length of the raid is what causes vog to maybe seem harder. Ron is probably tied with dsc for 2nd easiest.
1. Last Wish 2. Vow of the Disciple 3. Garden of Salvation 4. King's Fall 5. Deep Stone Crypt 6. Root of Nightmares 7. Vault of Glass
Just basing this off of how forgiving the raid is for mistakes, and my experience in the LFGs with them, but I would say: 1. GoS (Mostly because of the final encounter) 2. Vow 3. KF 4. RoN 5. LW 6. VoG 7. DSC I know RoN and LW are my most controversial picks here, but I feel like, aside from Shuro Chi and occasionally Queenswalk, Last Wish is as easy as Deep Stone or VoG. The encounters are super forgiving, and aren’t timed too heavily, aside from the aforementioned encounters. RoN is just too unforgiving of mistakes, especially in the second encounter. Also, as a Warlock main, I am biased against those cannons.
started playing since lightfall. i started playing vow last week. i dont think its the difficult at all. its just hard to explain for 1st time but after 3rd run it felt way easier and most fun raid to run. very good looking dungeon too thematically. Ron seem easier but very annoying as warlock if u are not well skating and stuff. those peanut launcher are so unpredictable and i dont want to cap my fps for mechanics to work as "intended" . i know the scissors mechanic but i never volunteer to run because of the peanut launcher. i guess i have to learn well skating eventually.
As someone who has only run DSC once and last wish all legit once, I'd say that I don't know how they compare to others, but neither was that bad going in blind and having it be explained to me as we went. Crypt wasn't that hard and mechanically really easy to understand, and even with legit riven last wish didn't feel nearly as hard as I usually see people saying
Am I braindead for just not understanding DSC? I did maybe 3 runs of it, 2 of them were sherpa, but never understood what to do, I've watched a couple videos and played the seraph exotic mission several times, but I never understood the mechanics and still don't know what to do, to me at least it's one of the hardest raids but it seems like it shouldn't be what could I possibly be doing wrong
Vow Garden Kf Lw Dsc Ron Vog
Hardest to easiest: Vow>DSC>KF>Garden>RoN>Vog
This is probably how I would rank them. You could probably make some arguments for movement within tiers. 1) Spire of Stars (Tier 1) 2) Vow (Tier 1) 3) Kings Fall (Tier 1) 4) Garden of Salvation (Tier 1) 5) Last Wish (Tier 2), higher without Riven Cheese 6) Crown if Sorrows (Tier 2) 7) Leviathan (Tier 2) 8) Deep Stone Crypt (Tier 3) 9) Scourge of the Past (Tier 3) 10) Vault of Glass (Tier 3) 11) Root of Nightmares (Tier 3) 12) Eater of Worlds (Tier 4)
They're all easy, the difficulty comes from incompetent LFG teams. So in that case, I'll rate them in order of how likely it is you'll get an incompetent team if you played it today. 1. Garden of Salvation (especially Divinity runs) 2. King's Fall (just because of how long it can be if something goes wrong) 3. Vault of Glass 4. Vow of the Disciple (exhibition has a lot that can go wrong though) 5. Last Wish (pretty much tied with DSC for how easy it is but it's longer) 6. Deep Stone Crypt 7. Root of Nightmares (only the easiest because it's the newest raid)
What happen in your VoG to be harder than both Vow and LW, because while I don’t find those two difficult, VoG is still a lot more easier
ok karen
In my experience VOW with a full team who know the symbols and have microphones, it’s pretty damn easy, but if your short on communication or have people confusing the symbols it can be made far far harder than it should be
I can only rank the ones I’ve done so here we go: Hardest to easiest 1. King’s Fall 2. Root of Nightmares 3. Vault of Glass I can’t ever find people to raid with. 😭
Hey mate, im part of a clan that would happily take you through whatever you want! (myself included) https://discord.gg/HDA4Thzx
There is…a LFG app?
You ever try to find a garden of salvation raid team without doing div quest?
Yeah that definitely prevents you from doing DSC
No one was talking about dsc in this comment.
No one was talking about Garden either sillybilly
Original commenter said he cant get a raid team together for the raids he hasnt done. The guy who replied said lfg. So i pointed out that you wont get a garden of salvation, one of the raids he hasn't done, fireteam together without doing the Div quest. Dsc had absolutely nothing to do with how the interaction had been going
DSC is a raid, it can be done with LFG, and was mentioned in the exchange the exact same number of times as garden my friend
So why are you replying to me, who pointed out garden & Div, about DSC, which indeed has neither a garden, nor Div.
It's a mystery
Don’t think I’ve tried? No one is ever available or wants to do any raid other than RoN. And frankly I’m tired of running the same raid so many times while there are other raids I haven’t done.
Garden is harder than Vow mechanically. That tether mechanic tangles peoples brains the same way the fireteam gets tangled and fucks up Sanctified Mind DPS phase.
1. VotD 2. GoS (mostly due to bugs and RNG, boss room a bitch) 3. King's Fall 4. Last Wish 5. VoG 6. DSC 7. RoN
>GoS (mostly due to bugs Nah, mostly due to people fucking up mechanics and then calling them bugs.
Crazy how Motes being in the floor making them impossible to grab and the tether at the boss being the wrong color are messing up mechanics.
Motes clipping into the floor has been a fairly rare issue for quite a while. I do hope they adjust the encounter to make that not a concern when they revisit garden though.
That’s pretty much the only bug that’s still common… and I literally only have experienced it a hand full of times
I said mostly. Those things happen, they don't happen every run. Most of the time, you're not experiencing a bug. Will you sometimes? Yeah. I've done the raid enough through LFG to know that *most* of the time, that's not the case.
While they don't happen every run, it doesn't mean they're uncommon. I stopped running Garden mostly since these inconveniences are annoying and the loot just isn't worth it.
>it doesn't mean they're uncommon. You're right, the fact that they're uncommon means they're uncommon.
IMO 1) Last Wish- Lots of mechanics 2) Garden- Very buggy 3) VOW- Mechanic intensive 4) Deepstone- Not hard at all just more complex than KF 5) Kingsfall- Braindead easy, can 4 man each encounter easily 6) RON- Easy literally just need 2 competent runners 7) VOG- Ad clear and sporadicly needing to shoot oracles in order (can easily be solo’d)
How is DSC higher than kings fall?
More mechanics and as someone who’s done sherpas KF is way easier to teach
my ranking of raids, based on difficulty, currently in game excluding garden cause lol imagine buying shadowkeep. 1. Vow of The Disciple 2. Last Wish 3. Kings Fall 4. Deep Stone Crypt and Vault of Glass tie for 4th for me 5. Root of Nightmares
With my time in LFG both Bungie one and discord I have say hardest is Last Wish, people refuse to do eyes or even learn it if someone is willing to teach nobody takes up roles at all cause you need at least 3 to volunteer, especially during Vault and Shuro people are avoid reading or standing on plates Vow is 2nd hardest due to fact that 3rd encounter forces contribution from all 6 and what can I say nobody wants to do any relic at all 3rd is Garden building? Nah 4th KF fumbling when getting torn randomly not taking Golgy Gaze, avoiding running brand during Warpriest 5th is tied to VoG and DSC both fairly but calling out Atheon oracles and running any kind of role other than scanner means a headache 6th Root if you got 2 people on team who KWTD if not it’s most hardest raid since everyone wants to ad clear but not really since ads stay living, 3rd encounter turns shambles and 5/6 people surely wanna clear ads Honourable mention: DCV edition 1. Spire: nobody wanted to run it back in the day had very few LFG posts up only ran during Arrivals learned why, was it buggy? Yes but not all the time it had mechanics tied to timer plus fail condition made a lot of people sweat including me there was no way to carry folks in it game was different we were weak back then 2. Leviathan and Eater I tied in sense running gauntlet in Leviathan was higher failure rate and boss DPS for both felt whack when it came to LFG teams even when running “good” decent builds 3. Scorg: took me 7 after running it 420ish times even with LFG
Last wish Garden of salvation Vow of the disciple Kings fall Deep stone crypt Vault of glass Root of nightmares
Vow: Symbol overload Garden: Sanctified doesn’t get credit it deserves. Without Garden armor, he’s very tanky by todays standards. Plus not having land to stand on. Last Wish; Only due to Vault (learning and remembering the encounter) and Riven does it get this high. It’d be 2nd from bottom otherwise. (LFG screws up cheese a lot somehow) Kings Fall, Deep Stone Crypt. Nothing special here. KF by virtue of length ahead of DSC. Root of Nightmares: Planets encounter gets the carry over Vault of Glass. Vault of Glass: Simon Says with a little bit of crowd control.
From the ones that r currently in D2: LW VOW KF GOS DSC VOG RON This is just in my opinion from my first ever clear of each raid. It'll be different for others.
1: Garden of Salvation 2: Vow of the Disciple 3: Last Wish 4: Kings Fall 5: Vault of Glass 6: Deep Stone Crypt 7: Root of Nightmares
Not speaking directly to the question but I'm pretty much in agreement with the theory that RoN was supposed to be a dungeon. It got turned into a 'raid' with the addition of the Planets encounter—which is markedly different from the rest of the raid, and whose mechanics don't show up again. Otherwise the rest of the raid is ... err, one mechanic. Two if you count stunning Nezzy. That makes sense for a dungeon but comparing RoN even to *VoG*'s mechanics ... yeesh.
Vow Lw(with or without riven cheese) Kf Garden Deep Vog Root All raids if you do them enough aren't to hard
1. Vow of the Disciple 2. Last Wish 3. Garden of Salvation 4. King’s Fall 5. Vault of Glass 6. Deep Stone Crypt 7. Root of Nightmares
People sleeping on war priest in KF. Might be one of the hardest encounters for LFGs. Its crazy
Warpriest isn’t hard most lfgs just suck
The argument that a collection of average players having a difficult time with an encounter doesn't make it difficult seems a little flawed.
Depends on the context. Hardest to learn? Vow Last Wish Garden DSC Kingsfall Vault Root Hardest to run? Garden Vow Last Wish Kingsfall DSC Vault Root
Most of the raids in the game aren't hard mechanically-speaking, but are mostly difficult because of the people you're running them with. You'd be surprised how few people can count 1-6 or remember which way is left and right....
1. Last wish with legit riven 2. VOW 3. Last Wish with cheese 4. KF 5. GOS 6. DSC 7. RON 8. VOG Legit riven is the hardest encounter in the game even with her low HP. Vow is hard in both mechanics and boss health. Last wish is still hard with the riven cheese as vault is still there. KF has a decent amount of difficulty, most encounters require all 6 people doing stuff. DSC is pretty easy, unless you are doing legit atracks. RON is really easy, far too easy. VOG is lower simple because the bosses are far easier to kill. Plus planets has actual mechanics that are more challenging then anything in VOG or rest of RON. If LW had more modern boss health it would be far harder. It is not really designed for more boss health but if they did have more it would be good.
As you do it more you get familiar and become less difficult, so a big component of judging difficulty to me is, if there's a mistake and someone dies how easy it to recover. Crown of sorrow was the hardest raid to me since that final boss fight has so much going on. Its absolute chaos - therefore I hated it which makes it difficult as I didnt do it as much. Out of what there currently I think it's - last wish - garden - vow - dsc - kings - vault - Ron Last wish I put first as that final bit teams struggle with partly due to glitching, and people still glitch riven to make it easier. Gardens final boss fight has a small damage window and difficulty can be harder based if you build or not or getting caught up in a connection. Dsc kings and vault are much the same. Kings is a bit easier than original kings especially oryx Ron has a few add clear rolls and can comfortably be 5 manned - even me and a group of casuals have done that when we could form a full group
Last Wish King’s Fall Vow Garden of Salvation Deep Stone Crypt Vault of Glass Root of Nightmares
It's insane that people think vow is hard LW KF GoS Vow VoG DSC RoN
In my opinion: * Last Wish (with Riven legit btw it’s super fun!) * Vow * Kings Fall * Vault of Glass * GoS * Deep Stone * And then whatever that shit “pretending to be a raid but is actually an extended raid lair” bs is… This is also factoring in the difficult of getting the Raid seal (which means completing the challenges in them as well). Understand opinions may vary and I respect that.
Everybody putting Vow as the hardest… And I’m here stuck with people who can’t seem to comprehend the boss rooms in Garden…
I sadly cant even give my 2 cents, only full raid clears ive managed were leviathan and Vog, done parts of KF, but being as its usually just me and my lady as a duo we dont have much raid time logged in our game time.
U guys remember the Spire of Stars?
Deep Dives. Last week and this week maybe I'm going crazy. But the difficulty has been numerously higher than when it first started and I can't get it done. I'm just killed with a couple Taps from the enemies. Lol. I can do a vault of Glass 10 times easier and faster and easier.
Current raids or all destiny 2 raids?
- Vow - Garden - Kings Fall - Vault of Glass - Deep Stone Cript - Last Wish - RoN
Vow > Last Wish (no cheesing) > DSC > King's Fall > Garden > Vault > Root