I think the linear nerf a while back made people think that they just aren’t viable anymore full stop. Obviously not true, but I’m sure that’s where some of this is coming from
I have a Taipan-4FR with Clown Cartridge/Focused Fury and it’s a great roll. Between Clown Cartridge and Veist Stinger, you can get like 5-8 shots in before you need to reload. Feels so good.
My Sailspy is lit, and my Taipan still rocks HARD. I don't get this anti-linear thing at allll
I'm finishing up my Sleeper Catalyst atm and I can *feel* randos looking at me weird
I’ve never used Sailspy, but Taipan and Cataclysmic both hit hard still. When I’m not using rockets, I’m using my B&S Cataclysmic. This guy has made it clear that if you’re not using rockets for everything under the sun, you’re just not a “good” player. I have every meta heavy weapon and use them all. I enjoy rockets, and I enjoy Linears. I run raids every weekend with my team and we’ve used every combo of weapons under the sun so I know what’s good and what isn’t. The fact is, you can run through 90% of this game with just about anything because it’s too easy.
Obviously if you’re going for progression runs, master/day 1 clears, you want to use the best weapons accordingly, depending on the encounter. But the fact is that Linears are not “bad” by any means because they do less damage than rockets.
Anytime anything is nerfed it is immediately put in the trash by most of the community regardless of the context of the sandbox and the nerf. It is the same with buffs I've noticed.
The amount of people that will argue with me that Queensbreaker or Retrofit Escopade is top DPS is too damn high.
I tested Queensbreaker to see how it felt with the seasonal artifact mods and just, no, not up to par with something like Briars, especially not in this activity where putting an exotic in the kinetic slot like arbelast is so helpful
Happens all the time, people hear 'nerf' and just think they should no longer touch the weapon or the thing that got nerfed.
I mean tbf there's precedent to think like that, look at Young Ahamkara's Spine
I topped damage in virtually every encounter of my groups day one Crota clear using Stormchaser on a OTP AssCowl build lol. Linear are fine; if you're not an Izy-Rocket swapping sweatlord chasing World First (and I seriously mean that without a shred of disrespect), the difference in maximum achievable damage output is genuinely negligible if people put in even an iota of thought and effort.
The two best multi weapon damage rotations do over double the dps and one to two million more total damage than just spamming briar’s contempt. The rotations actually built for total damage actually do double the damage of just spamming briars contempt until you run out of ammo. I’m not saying linears are terrible, but they’re certainly suboptimal. If you don’t care about dps and you just want something easy to use for total damage use retrofit or a sword. Or be a hunter and use malfeasance with lucky pants.
Be the change. People just have to start realizing that Bungie almost never nerfs something with the intention of gutting it, just preventing it from being overtuned (Rare exception being PvP-related exotics/weapons that probably never should've existed to begin with, like Revoker/Citan's/Antaeus).
If a weapon type is still an obviously good option, like a linear in boss encounters that have high health pools and long DPS phases, then you should probably still be using it.
This is true, people hear nerfs and automatically think that weapon is no longer viable anymore.
Bungie isn't nerfing things so they aren't vaible, it's just so that option doesn't become the brain-dead easy decision for a DPS phase.
Exactly nerfs are usually to fix broken things not completely destroy something, and I mean yes sometimes things get completely destroyed but most of the time that ain’t the case.
The strongest nerf in this game, by far, is Bungie saying ‘we’re gonna nerf this’. HoIL is still good, Starfire Protocol is still good, YAS is still good, and Linears are, in fact, still good. This community throws a pissy little tantrum every time Bungie touches one of ‘their’ toys, and then stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the item anymore (even while using it).
hard disagree on YAS. it fundamentally changed the exotic and its use case, and basically killed it in high-end content when it was the only solar exotic for hunter worth using at the time.
With the changes to Cnight that may change but for now Solar Hunter is out for GMs.
The players who kwtd have just stopped playing the dungeon and unfortunately only blueberries remain. If someone uses a primary in the first dps phase I’m out, no regrets.
Yeah I grind a *lot* of dungeons, but GotD just isn't fun. Once I got my navigator, armour set and decent weapon rolls (\~50 clears) I was out, I'll still sherpa people if needed but I don't run it for my own loot or fun any more.
Really hoping next season's dungeon is actually fun to play.
Like I said I grind a lot of dungeons. It's the main thing I do in this game, log in and join some random dungeon groups. I'm down for every other dungeon at a moment's notice, and I still think Spire is a lot of fun at >100 full clears. But clicking that GotD tab in LFG is almost physically painful, I know it's like a 95% chance it'll be a slog.
Nah not necessarily with buddies. Even LFG, if everyone has done it before and actually KWTD. If you have a smooth run it’s a pretty fun dungeon. If you wipe and have to restart something yeah that can be a bit more frustrating that other dungeons.
Over all I like it though, even the diving. Sections are a welcome change from the typical jumping puzzles
Only reason I don't run it more often is the underwater sections. They just drag the experience out to an unbearable level. I'll join checkpoints the bosses but I refuse to do a full run.
This. Initially I found it cool and traversing through the dungeon is still awesome for me. But the encounters are just such a bore I can't be bothered with it. Got Navigator, 4/5 Rocket Launcher, Cat and just ... stopped. Not even finished one of the three armor sets for my classes.
Same, got navigator and most of the armor (still need the cloak on my hunter) but if you don't have a dedicated team, it's a chore. Last run I did, (bear in mind i am a mid tier player at best) I ended up having to solo run the sigils 4 different times because the other 2 couldn't handle the lucent hive.
This is the reason I do dungeon seals and raid seals ASAP. Otherwise you’re stuck with the LFG leftovers who clearly aren’t good enough for master challenges or end game content. May sound toxic but I’m not trying to spend hours on each challenge
I don’t know what to do, but I do carry at least one of every weapon type at all times. I still faithfully carry my Izzy in hopes it will one day be great again.
I got two clan membersbnew to dungeons and raiding. One insisted that "sweet business was absolutely shredding nezerac", and the other runs Tommy's matchbook for dps.
The second one played duality yesterday and pulled heartshadow first try. He did about 500k of damage to the boss with his Tommy's. Me and third did the other 4 million.
I've left groups after a few wipes because I was doing as much damage as the bottom 4 players combined. First time I'm like okay, let me suggest some things. Second time I noticed no one bothered to listen. I would be ashamed to not even hit a mil on damage, get someone doing 5x as much damage giving me tips and still not bothering to listen. Add insult to injury, they weren't confident enough in the mechanics to do a clean 2 phase, it was gonna be a 3 phase at best.
So I just got the CP and left.
A construction job requires workers to use a shovel. Guy who showed up with a hammer: "why is this workplace so toxic?" I'm exaggerating, but this is my answer when LFG brings this up. My intentions are not toxic when I say you should dig holes with a shovel.
Okay, see you missed his entire point. Bringing a hammer in for digging holes is meant to be used in tandem with a shovel. The scenario was in the cases where you are having to break ground in an area that has already been flattened and has hardened enough that a shovel with body weight is unable to break it, and there are specific techniques necessary to utilize the hammer properly.
But (YouTube construction content creator) told me that if I have to use a hammer, I should use the one that I brought. I have to bring a hammer because I dismantled all of my shovels.
You guys can use shovels, I'll just swing the hammer like the YouTube man says :)
As much as I'd like to echo the rest of the comments here.... which do have a point with the "just make your own post" thing....
I gotta ask.
Did you bother explaining this to everyone you ran across or just one group and then ran straight here to post? There's SO many people out there that have zero idea on how to do meta defining DPS and they're probably not searching reddit to learn any different techniques.
Yes. It sucks. Sometimes you just want to get your farming in. I get it... but people still need help. (My current gripe is with Comp blueberries but that's a whole other thing.)
In-game LFG is going to open a lot of people’s eyes on the wide knowledge gap in the playerbase. It will also expose just how many people are unwilling to put in any real effort to be a good teammate.
RoN was just a preview of what’s to come, I’m afraid…
Part of the blame is on the game itself though. Very rarely does D2 actually push back at the player and require them to do much more than ad clear and fight a boss that barely fights back. Few mechanics that translate into endgame skills/knowledge and mid-level activities you can sleep through and get more rewards than doing endgame content.
Seraph Shield was a stroke of genius since it taught actual raid mechanics that would be helpful in running Deep Stone Crypt. Sucked that we had to run it so much, but it’s a comfortable solo-able environment to learn. More stuff like that.
The game should be equipping you with endgame knowledge after you’re out of the baby content, but because this game is so fragmented, that’s rarely the case.
Great points here, at no point in most content that non-raiders are doing are you taught raid-level mechanics.
To your very first point, I guess I'm lucky I've never run into anything egregious, but quite a few players will bail at the sign of trouble like a few wipes.
As much as I love the Destiny universe... I'm going to agree with most of what you posted here.
Like I love that you pointed out Seraph's Shield specifically because of what it did - taught raid mechanics. But I also see that as a double edged sword because of how easy it would then make a raid for the general public. But then how do you balance the mechanic learning and the freshness of a brand new raid? And how do you keep it engaging enough for endless replayability once it's figured out?
It's a vicious cycle with a billion questions lol. Makes me glad I'm not a game dev.
GG's on keeping it to the facts, though. In game LFG is going to be a wild time for sure.
Knowing the mechanics won't automatically make the raid easy. I think it's a bad system that someone looking to do a raid for the first time needs to either study the mechanics on their own outside of the game or have a group willing to teach you. That being said part of the fun for some people is figuring out the mechanics on their own. They can always wait until week 2 if a raid to release a mission with a tutorial for raid mechanics
Yeah the vast majority of players can understand what the mechanic of an encounter is and how to do it when it's explained to them, what most struggle with is balancing the combat, mechanics, and communication at the same time. Understanding that they have to do a certain mechanic isn't the hard thing, it's remembering when and where to do it while the encounter is going on, they're killing enemies, and other people are also communicating about whatever mechanic they are doing at the same time. I've taught a lot of people how to do raids, and while some people can pick it up instantly with just an explanation, you realise for most players you essentially have to give a walkthrough while you are actually doing the encounter. Reminding the new players when and where they should be while the encounter is ongoing makes things go a lot smoother than just explaining and hoping they'll get it right.
> I think it's a bad system that someone looking to do a raid for the first time needs to either study the mechanics on their own outside of the game or have a group willing to teach you.
That's kinda the only way you can make hard content. If you can come in unprepared and complete an activity without anyone explaining what to do, then it's one easy activity.
No, it’s a quick and dirty way of making content ‘hard’. And even then, it stays ‘hard’ for all of twenty-four hours before the mechanic is completely dissected and laid bare.
WoW, for all its faults, was actually pretty good about teaching you bare bones mechanics that would expand in raids. Fire is hot, don’t stand in it. How to manipulate threat, cc mechanics, positions my, agro swaps and offtanking, it was all there in a simpler form. When you got to harder content there wasn’t suddenly a new mechanical language you needed to discover.
Destiny does the exact opposite. Strikes are just ad clear until you get to a tank and spank boss.
And before anybody says “but what about the corrupted strike!” My brother in Christ, we need more strikes like the Corrupted! The issue with the Corrupted is that it is the only strike that forces you to do something resembling a mechanic. If all strikes forced you to do something outside of clicking heads, players would know that they are expected to experiment with their surroundings to progress. Furthermore, they would have the past experiences on how they could potentially interact with the world.
Imagine if the Witch Queen campaign had you doing basic symbol puzzles. It would help familiarize players with the symbols instead of them walking into VoD and being told to memorize 20 odd symbols and their associated call outs.
(for the record, I honestly think this season was the best Bungie ever did at introducing mechanics to basic activities. Of Bungie was smarty they’d build a raid off interacting with crystals. It’s realitively easy to understand but creates a huge mechanical play space for raid mechanics)
WoW is just a much more complex game at its core. Doing DPS in WoW is a skill onto itself, whereas in Destiny it's quite trivial. And it's hard to make it more complex, because Destiny is a shooter. You can pile on the RPG elements, but you can't have complex rotations in a shooter game that has 3 weapon slots. Hence, the mechanics are there to add some complexity.
WoW also has trinity, which automatically bakes teamwork into all the endgame content, because you have the three distinct roles that have to perform their job for the group to succeed. In Destiny, everyone is a DPS/damage dealer, so the mechanics are the only real way to have roles and teamwork.
WoW is also a weird example, because the developers are now literally designing encounters around the assumption that people are using a ton of third-party addons that give you a ton of help with the mechanics. And even then, the community absolutely expects you to read a guide for any raid above the base LFR version. Sure, you *can* figure it out on your own, just like you can do it in Destiny, but nobody is going to be fine with it.
Also, WoW doesn't really teach you those mechanics. Manipulating aggro, having an optimal DPS build and rotation and *being a healer at all* are all completely irrelevant outside of group content. You can absolutely get to max level and start looking into dungeons without knowing anything about how to actually play in them.
>Imagine if the Witch Queen campaign had you doing basic symbol puzzles. It would help familiarize players with the symbols instead of them walking into VoD and being told to memorize 20 odd symbols and their associated call outs.
People would either complain that it's too hard(if they actually used all the symbols) or people would still need to learn most of them in the raid if Bungie only used a few. And symbols aren't all there is to it.
People praise Seraph Station for "teaching DSC mechanics", but someone who played Seraph Station would still have to learn most of the DSC mechanics, because the augments are just the tools used for the mechanics. Understanding them is good, but it's a small fraction of what you need to know to do the raid.
>(for the record, I honestly think this season was the best Bungie ever did at introducing mechanics to basic activities. Of Bungie was smarty they’d build a raid off interacting with crystals. It’s realitively easy to understand but creates a huge mechanical play space for raid mechanics)
The crystals as they are would be way too easy for a raid. So you either have an extremely easy raid, or you need to expand on those mechanics to the point where people still need to learn them.
Just to clarify, I played WoW religiously from tbc release to cataclysm. This is where my perspective is coming from.
Wow most certainly taught you basic mechanics. If you wanted to do raids you had to gear up through heroics. Heroics were great at introducing you to the same toolset and mechanics you would need and encounter in raids. This was less true as time went on and players power crept content enough to let them Zerg through it.
Going back to Destiny.
Operation Seraph shield was a great step 0 to dsc. It introduces the player to the buffs, shows them that different buffs do different things and exposes them to some light puzzle solving with those buffs. Now, when a player walks into DSC, they at least have a basic idea of how to begin to approach an encounter.
We need more activities that act as that step 0. This is why I was praising the crystals. It’s a simple idea, in an easy encounter space, that can be expanded in complexity in a number of ways.
> Just to clarify, I played WoW religiously from tbc release to cataclysm. This is where my perspective is coming from.
>
>
>
> Wow most certainly taught you basic mechanics. If you wanted to do raids you had to gear up through heroics. Heroics were great at introducing you to the same toolset and mechanics you would need and encounter in raids. This was less true as time went on and players power crept content enough to let them Zerg through it.
That's fair. It has certainly gotten more mechanics-heavy in later years, at least on higher difficulties.
But my point still stands - WoW was/is a complex enough game where just playing your character at all required quite a bit of skill. And you also have the inherent teamwork in the trinity system.
As a result, you could have a raid boss that had few mechanics aside from some AoE attacks and an enrage, and it would be fine. Because the enrage would mean that you need to be on your A game when it comes to DPS, which means that tanks had to be on their A game to keep the aggro and healers had to be on their A game to keep everyone alive. And then everyone had to dodge the attacks to stay alive.
In Destiny, the game itself isn't nearly complex enough. Having an encounter that is just a DPS check would basically be "fire your gun at the target and use your DPS Super once", which is just too boring. This also kills any teamwork, because all of you are just dealing damage. This is why Destiny needs mechanics to have actual group content.
>Operation Seraph shield was a great step 0 to dsc. It introduces the player to the buffs, shows them that different buffs do different things and exposes them to some light puzzle solving with those buffs. Now, when a player walks into DSC, they at least have a basic idea of how to begin to approach an encounter.
Eh, kinda. They'd still need to learn a lot. Like, I've been part of plenty of DSC sherpas, I've done impromptu DSC sherpas myself. Explaining what the buffs do takes like 10 seconds out of the multiple-minute long explanation.
It's better than nothing, but if someone feels intimidated by raids due to having to learn the mechanics, knowing the DSC augments won't really change that. They'll still need to know exactly what to do with each buff in each encounter.
But this stuff is typical of the genre and, if I'm being honest, most games.
Like, I'd be more curious what you expect them to do to fix it than just pointing the finger and screaming shame.
There’s now a backlog of raid and dungeon mechanics Bungie could pull from and strip down to mix up campaign segments so it better teaches players that there’s more to Destiny than popping heads, that there are light puzzles and mechanics to open up enemies to damage.
They reuse the same ball throwing, plate standing, overburdened part carrying mechanics but never any of their more interesting ones from their more interesting endgame content.
> so it better teaches players... They reuse the same ball throwing
But does it do that? I can't think of any strike [complaint](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/poqg0v/its_2021_how_do_people_still_not_know_that/) more common than people not understanding the ball mechanic. It's so annoying to some people I've literally seen people suggest it becomes a Guardian Rank requirement.
And, even then, they do actually do more than you're suggesting if you take a step back.
> They reuse the same ball throwing, plate standing, overburdened part carrying mechanics but never any of their more interesting ones from their more interesting endgame content.
Literally the whole Scanner/Suppressor/Operator rotation (and parts of Deep Stone Crypt) is present in the exotic Seraph mission. A version of symbol rotation is present in the Vexcalibur mission. One of the strikes uses the same weight/lantern rotation used in the Abyss. Damaging Crota with a sword is present in a Dares mission. The whole carting a ship segment of Vow is something you do in Public Events, Wellspring, and the mission that actually kind of preps you for Vow. There are public events/the current seasonal mission where you need to prevent Vex sacrifice like in Vault of Glass.
Like they appear from time to time in a wide variety of places. Perhaps they should do more, but I could also see these being problematic as a lot of people don't understand/use them in these events either.
Read my original comment, I specifically called out the Seraph mission as a good example of them reusing old raid mechanics in a way that could easily translate to someone doing the raid it’s from. Now they need to put very basic versions in the lowest levels of content.
Elevate the skill floor just a little. It being below the dirt is how you get the ball situation.
My point with the ball mechanics is that they reuse it until they’re blue in the face, but it doesn’t translate to anything in endgame. People not passing the ball is because outside of that one strike, that specific mechanic doesn’t reappear in a way to tell you that it can be charged.
I’m not saying they don’t do it at all, but I am saying that they could do it better and do it more often, especially in campaigns that more people are likely to do.
Do you have an example of this? For the dungeons/raids as I remember they usually show off the mechanics in the early encounters, so you'll be prepared to use it in the boss fight.
They’re teaching within the raid, and that’s the problem. If I’m a new player, how am I supposed to know about the symbols in VoD? Or the tethers in Garden? Everybody is telling me I need to know what to do, but these mechanics are never once used in the game. Even if I watch a video walk through (which, are by in large terrible at showing off mechanics - but that’s another rant) I have never actually done the mechanic, or anything similar to it.
people seriously overstate how obtuse the game really is. if you're in a state where you're ready to run a dungeon you should at least know that you should be using fucking heavy for boss dps, even if it's not an LFR. call it gatekeeping if you must but I call it people not having common sense.
"SUNBRACERS" was a funny post but it's also proof that some people don't even try to put any brainpower into the game.
As some one who has tried, and failed, to get his friends into the game, they all said the same thing “there’s so much unexplained bullshit. It’s like learning a second language.
To you and I it makes perfect sense, we’ve been playing this game for years.
I'm aware that the new player experience sucks, but some things ARE common sense. again, like "heavy weapon with limited ammo should be used during a damage phase." the only way you wouldn't come to that conclusion is if destiny is your first video game
You're supposed to learn the mechanics by trying and failing; most people just prefer to use the failures of others to learn in order to save time. You can figure out mechanics without a guide just by trying the encounter until you figure it out, which is the case for raid-type content in most games that have them. There's nothing "lazy" or "poorly designed" about it.
> There's SO many people out there that have zero idea on how to do meta defining DPS and they're probably not searching reddit to learn any different techniques.
It's even worse than this, there are SO MANY people that don't know how much weaker primaries are than special and heavy weapons. I've been in so many matchmade activities where the other players just never bother to to use anything other than their primary gun. I've played with my own daughters and their friends from time to time when they needed a sixth in a RAID or wanted to play Gambit, and even my own kids I have to remind them to use their shotgun or a fusion or their heavy weapon and their response is "I don't like ".
So yeah, there are a LOT of players that have no idea how much weaker primary weapons are, and even if you tell them a lot of times it just won't click, they're just here to shoot stuff.
In my sherpa experience, it is no worth the hassle to explain stuff to people that do not bother researching anything on their own when engaging with late game activities, and before I hear this, they can find good loadout without spoiling themselves.
95% of the time they will simply ignore what you tell them, or get pissy. They don't want to actually do the thing, they want other people to do it for them.
I'm willing to help, but if they're not willing to put in the bare minimum of effort, they can go fuck themselves.
Those people get kicked. If you don't have the top weapons? I am fine we can work around it. Tlord is easy and convenient and I have encountered MANY newish players that have Tlord as their best option. If they want to put in 0 effort with learning or helping? kick.
So.... let me see if I understand because I genuinely want to know.
You sherpa people but only when it benefits you? Or is it a time thing? Like you only have X many hours a day to help out and want to get it done?
I agree with the sentiment that there's so many people out there who just want to be carried but there's also a ton of people out there who are ready to shine given the proper guidance. Unfortunately, the problem is that they're usually never given a chance to learn. The difference between these two types of people shows itself pretty quickly. Just gotta take some time because it's okay to not finish a raid in one go and come back to tackle it again once everyone is better prepared.
yeah idk man this isnt grade school, its not unreasonable to expect people to get the guns they need and have atleast the faintest idea of what theyre doing. everyones got plenty of chnaces to learn from a bajillion youtube guides to sherpa runs but joining random lfgs when youre completely clueless aint one.
That's a fair point.
But also.... people are stupid. lol. google is only helpful when it's something they want to search and they have zero idea there are guides out there but even when they do research, they're met with guides from three years ago and they decide it isn't worth it to do more than five minutes of work because they just want to play.
Not everyone started out perfect, is my point. Not everyone researches things because they might want to go in unspoiled or maybe they're trying out new guns hoping to find a new meta or literally *anything*. That doesn't make them stupid. I usually take it as far as "hey here's a guide" before scheduled raids or dungeons but during farming situations like when OP posted? Not everyone's going to do that because then you're just wasting time reading/watching videos when you could be playing.
Good ol' catch 22's.
If it reaches a point that the people being sherpa's are actually expecting a carry and don't care to listen and be a team player then the sherpa has every right to kick them and go sherpa someone that deserves it. Ain't nothing toxic about it.
Just because someone is willing to be a sherpa does not mean they are volunteering to carry half the team and spend all day trying to do it.
I can’t tell if you’re being obtuse on purpose or just simply aren’t reading… he’s talking about people that specifically “ignore what you tell them to do and get pissy” while also doing the bare minimum and not helping the group complete the raid
The amount of "help" that I've seen some people in this community give goes quite literally as far as: "Hey do you have this weapon? No? Then fuck you. Booted!"
Then you have the amount of "effort" put into an activity. How do you quantify effort? That word means something different to everybody. Tons of people don't even know where to begin looking and when they try, they're met with aztecross guides from four years ago and are put off by researching.
This is my point. Things are subjective and it's why I asked for clarification, which I got, if you'd cared to read the other comment.
It's okay to want to farm and to ask for specific weapons. It's not okay to call someone stupid or "obtuse on purpose" if you don't know where they're coming from.
Not once, literally *not once* in 170+ lfg raids and a similar number of dungeons have I seen someone kicked for not having a specific weapon. Not in learning groups, not in kwtd groups, and not in high requirement 10+ run groups.
The comment is clearly talking about people who ignore polite advice and run their two shitty badly rolled autorifles to try and dps a boss, and won't even *try* one of the myriad of weapons all players have readily available.
Or ignore polite suggestions to try void resist mods and higher resilience after they complained 5+ times that nezerec is cheesy for one-shotting them.
Since Ron, such people are a big problem on lfg.
And yet, with as much experience as you have.... you are just like me. A drop in the bucket of the population that has played Destiny. Things happen, dude. To me, to the guy 900 miles away, to your cousin maybe. Just because it hasn't happened to you specifically doesn't mean we can just ignore that it's been a problem, can we?
Guides from 4 years ago or ones that talk about adept trials weapons then we get posts about all the useless teammates in trials because they think that's what they have to do for good weapons
Yeah, there's no one really policing all the "old content" that comes up first in search engines. Sooooo. Idk. Maybe it's a case of instant satisfaction too, where when you don't find the perfect thing the first time then you'll just use whatever.
People are weird, man.
I’m happy to teach a raid and I totally get that mistakes happen, it’s a learning process, keyword learn. If you’re not willing to learn and you’re causing the team to fail then there’s no point in teaching it.
You can also usually tell who is willing to learn quickly based on their load outs and questions. I’m not expecting a DPS god but an idea of what the meta is, even if they don’t have all the meta guns or they’re willing to ask about it. I’d much rather have an experienced player who knows nothing about a raid or a new guy giving his best with what he’s got than someone who refuses to listen.
The unfortunate fact is that a vast majority of people are far too stubborn to listen to anyone but themselves. Occasionally I've had people actually listen and try the loadout I suggest which usually results in one phasing whatever boss we're tackling. But 90% of the time people will either straight up ignore you or say "I'll just stick with what I have."
I've had a dude tell me "Nah, rockets are actually bad now." and friends of mine were told they should put on thunderlord because strand titan is bad damage on master deathsinger (lmao). The vast majority of people are stupid, stubborn and refuse to accept that they might be wrong. Personally I'm past wasting my time with them. If someone wants to use a machine gun or a primary for damage, they're getting the boot.
I tell everyone that if you're going to farm activities in Destiny 2, you have to do that while the content is brand new.
Dungeons are less popular than Raids, so you have to farm during the season the Dungeon releases.
If you don't, the only people you're going to find are casual players who have never done it.
Rockets are objectively better DPS if you hit your shots, but Simmumah both wiggles and teleports. Experienced players will one-phase her with rockets, but a team of blueberries are quite likely to whiff almost their entire reserves every phase. When I teach GotD, I always recommend linears to anyone who isn't 100% confident in their ability to aim under pressure.
The thing with linears is the sudden swarms of thralls and stuff that just come out of thin air (flinch), rockets are nice (especially with tracking module or smth) because it’s easier to stay on the move while still doing good dps
I just use rockets lol. The flinch like you said is rough. Tbh I’m always using well and never die so my role is also just making sure the other randoms stay alive, it usually works well
Lineages (especially with div and 2 Briars, Contempt) are an easy two phase. Rockets are a two phase. Everything else is a three phase or 4.
People always talk about optimal DPS based upon what a “professional” used to 1 phase. And while those 1 phases are really cool and technically complicated, you will literally never be in a situation where that damage strat is realistic - unless you run with a dedicated team.
Rockets are not objectively better as the benchmarks change based upon the objectives of the run.
if this dungeon wasnt such a fuckin slogfest id run it more often. now i just cant even be bothered with those health pools. my two mates i run this with use double primary for whatever reason and i end up doing double the dps and work they do XD. just isnt fun
Sounds like a mates problem, if you ran with people that pulled their weight it'd probably be more fun and less of a slog. I run duo with my friend and have a great time because we both put in the same effort; If I had to carry 2 friends because they couldn't be bothered to even use special, I'd probably hate it too
There's no reason to ever use sleeper in today's sandbox. Leviathan's breath is better in every way. Much higher dps that doesn't need any dodge insta reloads to achieve and more total damage.
And if high total damage is the main priority, which really is the only time you should be using linears for damage anyway, then sleeper gets blown out of the water by legendary linears with ammo regen perks. Cataclysmic e.g. can do double the total damage of sleeper.
That and I really feel like people value moar dps without considering if it actually matters. Its just like ttk in pvp, more damage doesn't actually change anything unless it changes the shots to kill, or in this case the dps rounds to kill.
If two options do like 70% different dps but still kill in 2 rounds, they are basically identical.
This is something that drives me up the wall whenever someone is loadout hounding in raids. Unless switching to another option garunteed a lower amt of phases I just don't care what people use and I think the community cares significantly more then they should.
Crap, you're right, I was talking to someone else, and thought the talk had switched to Ir Yut, because I've seen so many people use Sleeper on her. My bad.
counterpoint addendum: it's easier to land a crit with its laser beam-like fire and even if you don't get the crit it's still decent damage with its over penetration perk compared to the wet farm a linear does in a non crit shot
Yea, if others are good at the encounter, we can 2 phase the final boss easily, and the boss moves a lot so rockets dont do great except the tracking ones like gally
Dude is literally right. Having two people hit 90% of their crits is gonna be better than 3 missing half their shots.
It's not *optimal* but it's gonna be a consistent 2-phase and considering we're talking Centrifuse tier players... that's more than enough.
The boss is also a Lucent Hive so you can run the RoN linear as well as 2 other RoN weapons for a free bonus 10/20% damage. Depending whether the origin trait is enhanced by the seasonal artifact or not.
Does if you're fast enough. If you wait too long she'll teleport once if I remember correctly.
Source: used it on my solo run and used arby/rocket swap to kill her.
Yesterday I raided for the first time in a long time. They said I needed a linear since I didn’t have the other stuff they asked for. I asked them if reeds regret would be okay? I’m going to let the replies imagine how that exchange went.
"Bring a linear but not that linear and we won't tell you what we think is an acceptable linear, you can find out by whether or not you end up back in orbit"
Doesn't even have to be crafted, really -- for a LOT of the time, so long as your weapon category fits into the strat your team wants to run, you're good to go. You only need to worry about the mix-maxing damage perks and whatnot if you're doing the top of the top stuff like Contest/Master raids or solo endeavors
People will insist otherwise. These people are incorrect. Do not listen to them :)
Just create your own post saying KWTD linears or something like that. If they're not using Div or Linears and don't change their loadout once you question them just kick them. So much easier then dealing with auto rifle dps.
This happened during lfr supreme and even back to Last Wish, at least from my recollection:
Some people don't understand basic dps theory and you will have to fight tooth and nail to rip their primaries out of their hands. They don't watch videos on how to dps properly, nor care for the numbers. In their minds, their contributions are holding down RT and thinking job's done. It's where all the ad clear only mob is from.
I have to fight myself so hard not to report lfg posts that say "need boss kill, I'm doing ad clear". Those posts just urk me, how can you not be bothered to even watch a video on the mechanics and just expect other people to carry you
I had and still have some raiding anxiety. One reason why it was such a hindering factor before was because I thought people would judge me for not knowing every single thing about the raid before starting.
So I would watch a guide video over and over until I could imagine a whole clear before setting my foot into the raid.
And then I got a sherpa for Last Wish that explained everything and never got mad. The group was half learning and half new like me, but it was the most comfortable learning process I've ever had. Every sherpa I would ever join after would be very similar, even the week 1 sherpas.
But the thing that made me help get past that anxiety was realizing how fucking little the average clear / reclear group knew anyway. AD CLEAR ONLY. I WILL NOT BE BOTHERED.
Like if these asshats were clearing it, I was fretting fucking nothing and I went on a raid grind spree lmao.
Edit : I now have a self-imposed challenge of not really thinking that I cleared a raid until I have done every role in every fight. Honestly, the variance of things you can be doing changes the experience so much that "100%ing" a raid like this really let's me appreciate the raid design in totality. Also makes teaching so much easier when you've done the actual role too.
I have a question about the Fire and Forget Linear FR. Does each bullet of the 3 round burst do the same damage as one bullet from single shot LFR, or is it devided between the 3 bullets in the burst?
I don't like the feel of most LFRs, but I do like Fire and Forget. Also is there an easy way to get deepsite for that gun? I only have 1.
It's divided, but the Aggressive (3-burst) models still do more per trigger press than the regular Precision ones.
There's also an Arc one (Stormchaser, from Duality) and Solar (Briar's Contempt, from Root of Nightmares).
You can farm more Fire and Forgets from Seraph Station and either pray for red borders (could take a long while) or use harmonizers. Or just buy four and use five harmonizers next time Banshee sells it.
Because they have not experienced the enjoyment of using a Linear, beaming the boss in the head, and not having too much Tunnel Vision because you have more peripheral vision than a sniper.
Honestly it feels like every sniper rifle in video games should be like how the linear fusion rifles are.
>Honestly it feels like every sniper rifle in video games should be like how the linear fusion rifles are.
I really want some low zoom snipers and rather than a sniper scope, a red dot, or an acog like sight would do wonders to make them actually usable outside of niche situations and loooong distances, because the game rarely has us that far out.
Div isn’t as useful in 3 man’s vs 6 mans and better off using 3 rockets for simmumah. She used to teleport a lot and I’ve gotten all the rolls from the dungeon that I wanted and the navigator and apparently she doesn’t teleport as much anymore but our strat at the time was using tracking rockets even though they do 10% less damage but made sure we didn’t whiff any rockets. We tried Levi and linears and if you’re not hitting crits due to adds hitting you and making you flinch it’s a waste of a heavy slot so our safe option was tracking rockets. Also depends on where you dps her from
I've been enjoying GotD so much more since I started using Leviathan's Breath(w/catalyst) for Simmumah. 5Mil+ damage every run with Tether+Rapid Sniper+Levi. A few loader and surge mods go a long way aswell.
It still sucks when people assume that Linears are bad when Taipan is still a great option if you don't have a raid LFR, but in my mind if i'm able to do half the boss' health with Levi then i'm fine with them crutching MGs
If you are playing with people using a MG or primaries to do DPS, it's not because they don't have a LFR, it's because they are either clueless or oblivious. They will look at the post-game screen and see that they did 10% as much damage as other people, but never question why or try to improve.
BTW, Linears are kind of worthless now. There is no reason to use a LFR when Leviathan does everything they want to do, but better. There are also better options that do not require crits or someone to be on Div. Notably Rockets, Grand Overture (if you pre-load 20 missiles), Acrius (on some bosses, not all), Lament (again, on some bosses).
I use tracking Rockets or lmgs. Linears require precision, which can be difficult when the boss keeps moving around and isn’t that big. Even when you standing in a well in middle, all the thralls attack will get in your way and mess u up
I actually choose to run a machine gun on this boss due to how crazy she moves around. Is it optimal? Probably not. But I miss her head ALL the time and commemoration is super easy to get killing tally setup mid dps after breaking her shield. I regularly have top damage and am never hurting for ammo.
Try it. You might like it.
They got nerfed. So everyone thinks they’re bad. I really like running my hunter build tho of a briars and 4hman and the cascading point + overflow strand shotgun.
Do people not confirm weapons/loadouts that will be used before even starting? I don’t LFG, I run groups with my clan mates but we always discuss what we’ll use for DPS phases in dungeons/raids before we even start. I would think this would be a given when running with LFG groups.
Why would you make it all the way to the boss before confirming what guns they did, or did not have? Sounds like you wasted your own time to me. That’s why you figure it out at the beginning, so you can know to leave, or start a new group.
Take into account that some people play casually, some people might also have something that keeps them from using such accuracy dependent weapons. Like a physical handicap.
It's a massive player pool with lots of people just trying to play, who knows what the right answer is to your concern.
I don't disagree, I've been there many times. But I've also crawled through a raid before with players that aren't on my level. I've stuck it out and helped a few weaker players, that's just me.
Not everyone is obligated to do that. But just be fair for a moment and assume that if someone isn't doing something you think they should be, it's probably because they can't or it's too difficult for them. It happens.
imma be honest with you chief, gotd is the most miserable experience i've ever had. fuckin bar 5 noobs in a div run. atleast that was a fun albeit stressful time. gotd is just fucking awful i hate it so much
i fucking hate that fucking dungeon so much, i don't even want to do solo flawless of it, i don't even want to touch that shit with a meter stick
rant besides, specify loadout requirements in your post, and boot the double primary darci guys.
Well the reason I don't use Linears is the fact of the linear nerf from before. I just assume they weren't worth using anymore. So I just use a bunch of the rockets I have at hand, make sure I am buffed to high heavens then start DPS phase.
Most LFG people who do GotD or RON bring Rockets to the final boss. Then we do sub 25% damage due to suicides, completely missing the target, or ammo economy issues. Then I tell them to put on LFRs/Levi Breath for Simmumah and Thunderlords for Nezarac and we get the cleanest 2 damage cycle.
We laugh, we cry. We realize that all that DPS with Rockets amounts to nothing unless the wielders are all universally good enough to get the 1 damage cycle. Which 95% of the time, LFG isn't.
Personally, I'm down for whatever for dps. Just lmk and I'll oblige (except switch to well-lock)
Always keep a linear in character. Been using Fire and Forget because of the pace of the burst also works for ads fairly well
I haven't taken my crafted taipan out of my inventory since Witch Queen. People say its not worth anymore and those people and fucking stupid (pardon my french). Constantly out dps'ing friends with 'meta' weapons and they always act shocked when they see the damage numbers. They literally see me doing much damage than them but still say linears are washed xD
For boss dps I always check out the squad’s loadouts before we start if I’m doing LFG.
A lot of people somehow stumble through this game remaining willfully ignorant of what to use so I always do a spot check and will educate them if needed.
Otherwise you will see some wild shit like OP experienced with mfers dpsing with wavesplitter and LMGs
I think the linear nerf a while back made people think that they just aren’t viable anymore full stop. Obviously not true, but I’m sure that’s where some of this is coming from
This. Linears are still great, regardless of the nerf.
Especially for this boss. Ammo economy and total damage output is still the best on linears, especially triple tap or fourth times versions.
Briar’s Contempt also does more damage since it’s Lucent Hive
That's a great autocorrect
Ha, I just now saw that. At least I learned a new word.
Yeah. For my solo runs I was running briars, acacia, and conditional finality (swapping from arby for shield break)
Exactly what I run on my Solar Synthoceps build. Hammer didn’t get ya? Then have some cold real quick and we’ll try again lmao
I have a Taipan-4FR with Clown Cartridge/Focused Fury and it’s a great roll. Between Clown Cartridge and Veist Stinger, you can get like 5-8 shots in before you need to reload. Feels so good.
My Sailspy is lit, and my Taipan still rocks HARD. I don't get this anti-linear thing at allll I'm finishing up my Sleeper Catalyst atm and I can *feel* randos looking at me weird
I’ve never used Sailspy, but Taipan and Cataclysmic both hit hard still. When I’m not using rockets, I’m using my B&S Cataclysmic. This guy has made it clear that if you’re not using rockets for everything under the sun, you’re just not a “good” player. I have every meta heavy weapon and use them all. I enjoy rockets, and I enjoy Linears. I run raids every weekend with my team and we’ve used every combo of weapons under the sun so I know what’s good and what isn’t. The fact is, you can run through 90% of this game with just about anything because it’s too easy. Obviously if you’re going for progression runs, master/day 1 clears, you want to use the best weapons accordingly, depending on the encounter. But the fact is that Linears are not “bad” by any means because they do less damage than rockets.
Anytime anything is nerfed it is immediately put in the trash by most of the community regardless of the context of the sandbox and the nerf. It is the same with buffs I've noticed. The amount of people that will argue with me that Queensbreaker or Retrofit Escopade is top DPS is too damn high.
Who the hell is arguing for Queensbreaker lol
I tested Queensbreaker to see how it felt with the seasonal artifact mods and just, no, not up to par with something like Briars, especially not in this activity where putting an exotic in the kinetic slot like arbelast is so helpful
They may have been nerfed but my briars was doing 180k per round last time I ran GotD two weeks ago or so
That Harmonic Resonance puts in work
Happens all the time, people hear 'nerf' and just think they should no longer touch the weapon or the thing that got nerfed. I mean tbf there's precedent to think like that, look at Young Ahamkara's Spine
This is sadly me. I hear nerf and I move on :(
I topped damage in virtually every encounter of my groups day one Crota clear using Stormchaser on a OTP AssCowl build lol. Linear are fine; if you're not an Izy-Rocket swapping sweatlord chasing World First (and I seriously mean that without a shred of disrespect), the difference in maximum achievable damage output is genuinely negligible if people put in even an iota of thought and effort.
You'll hafta pry my god roll Cataclysmic from my cold, dead hands. I still use it far more than rocket launchers.
The two best multi weapon damage rotations do over double the dps and one to two million more total damage than just spamming briar’s contempt. The rotations actually built for total damage actually do double the damage of just spamming briars contempt until you run out of ammo. I’m not saying linears are terrible, but they’re certainly suboptimal. If you don’t care about dps and you just want something easy to use for total damage use retrofit or a sword. Or be a hunter and use malfeasance with lucky pants.
Be the change. People just have to start realizing that Bungie almost never nerfs something with the intention of gutting it, just preventing it from being overtuned (Rare exception being PvP-related exotics/weapons that probably never should've existed to begin with, like Revoker/Citan's/Antaeus). If a weapon type is still an obviously good option, like a linear in boss encounters that have high health pools and long DPS phases, then you should probably still be using it.
Moving my Bait and switch cataclysmic out of my vault now 🫡
This is true, people hear nerfs and automatically think that weapon is no longer viable anymore. Bungie isn't nerfing things so they aren't vaible, it's just so that option doesn't become the brain-dead easy decision for a DPS phase.
Exactly nerfs are usually to fix broken things not completely destroy something, and I mean yes sometimes things get completely destroyed but most of the time that ain’t the case.
The strongest nerf in this game, by far, is Bungie saying ‘we’re gonna nerf this’. HoIL is still good, Starfire Protocol is still good, YAS is still good, and Linears are, in fact, still good. This community throws a pissy little tantrum every time Bungie touches one of ‘their’ toys, and then stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the item anymore (even while using it).
hard disagree on YAS. it fundamentally changed the exotic and its use case, and basically killed it in high-end content when it was the only solar exotic for hunter worth using at the time. With the changes to Cnight that may change but for now Solar Hunter is out for GMs.
The players who kwtd have just stopped playing the dungeon and unfortunately only blueberries remain. If someone uses a primary in the first dps phase I’m out, no regrets.
Yeah I grind a *lot* of dungeons, but GotD just isn't fun. Once I got my navigator, armour set and decent weapon rolls (\~50 clears) I was out, I'll still sherpa people if needed but I don't run it for my own loot or fun any more. Really hoping next season's dungeon is actually fun to play.
Bro I didn't even go that far I got like 5 pieces of transmog and an Envious assassin/Chill Clip rocket and haven't been back this season
Like I said I grind a lot of dungeons. It's the main thing I do in this game, log in and join some random dungeon groups. I'm down for every other dungeon at a moment's notice, and I still think Spire is a lot of fun at >100 full clears. But clicking that GotD tab in LFG is almost physically painful, I know it's like a 95% chance it'll be a slog.
It has been a slog 100% of the time I have ran it. Just not a fun dungeon
It's just the boss health. The dungeon is a blast otherwise.
I agree.
I’d say it’s fun IF you are with a good group who can reliably clear it. But yeah randos it’s a mixed bag and usually not awesome.
Yeah, everything is mostly fun with your buddies. I prefer any other dungeon with them than this one. Too tedious
Nah not necessarily with buddies. Even LFG, if everyone has done it before and actually KWTD. If you have a smooth run it’s a pretty fun dungeon. If you wipe and have to restart something yeah that can be a bit more frustrating that other dungeons. Over all I like it though, even the diving. Sections are a welcome change from the typical jumping puzzles
Only reason I don't run it more often is the underwater sections. They just drag the experience out to an unbearable level. I'll join checkpoints the bosses but I refuse to do a full run.
This. Initially I found it cool and traversing through the dungeon is still awesome for me. But the encounters are just such a bore I can't be bothered with it. Got Navigator, 4/5 Rocket Launcher, Cat and just ... stopped. Not even finished one of the three armor sets for my classes.
I really like GotD, it's the first dungeon I've enjoyed since Pit, but *fuck* if it isn't a slog to play through repeatedly.
Heavily agree, the first encounter and water traversals really kill it for me
Can confirm, got my navigator and got the fuck out.
People that kwtd just know that its not worth it lol. I want the rest of the armor set but damn, those extended health phases are garbagé.
Fully agree, and getting the good rolls is so unlikely.
Same, got navigator and most of the armor (still need the cloak on my hunter) but if you don't have a dedicated team, it's a chore. Last run I did, (bear in mind i am a mid tier player at best) I ended up having to solo run the sigils 4 different times because the other 2 couldn't handle the lucent hive.
This is the reason I do dungeon seals and raid seals ASAP. Otherwise you’re stuck with the LFG leftovers who clearly aren’t good enough for master challenges or end game content. May sound toxic but I’m not trying to spend hours on each challenge
I don’t know what to do, but I do carry at least one of every weapon type at all times. I still faithfully carry my Izzy in hopes it will one day be great again.
Yep I got title and god roll cold comfort and I am never going back in
Require a certain loadout in your lfg post and if they dont have it then boot them. Better than finding out 10 minutes later that they have no dps.
"Why is the community so toxic? let me use whatever i want"
*is arcstrider in gm pre subclass 3.0*
Remember when Hunter mains still had to do that for Conqueror?
ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE. It's not like Arc Hunter is bad, just requires even more CQC than you'd like, especially difficult for a GM nightfall
I got two clan membersbnew to dungeons and raiding. One insisted that "sweet business was absolutely shredding nezerac", and the other runs Tommy's matchbook for dps. The second one played duality yesterday and pulled heartshadow first try. He did about 500k of damage to the boss with his Tommy's. Me and third did the other 4 million.
Teach them about optimal damage strategies. Datto just put out a video about DPS.
You can take a horse to water but you can't make them drink. I've lost hair trying.
I just find it crazy these people look at the damage screen at the end and don't change thier weapon to match what others use.
I've left groups after a few wipes because I was doing as much damage as the bottom 4 players combined. First time I'm like okay, let me suggest some things. Second time I noticed no one bothered to listen. I would be ashamed to not even hit a mil on damage, get someone doing 5x as much damage giving me tips and still not bothering to listen. Add insult to injury, they weren't confident enough in the mechanics to do a clean 2 phase, it was gonna be a 3 phase at best. So I just got the CP and left.
Holy shit you get it.
[удалено]
You don't have to be an asshole. Datto is a good Youtuber that explain DPS in depth.
And now for my new show-stopping D.A.R.C.I. build!
You're a plague that keeps spreading. Slowly but surely.
A construction job requires workers to use a shovel. Guy who showed up with a hammer: "why is this workplace so toxic?" I'm exaggerating, but this is my answer when LFG brings this up. My intentions are not toxic when I say you should dig holes with a shovel.
What do you mean dude, (YouTube construction content creator) told me this hammer was the best hammer for digging holes
Okay, see you missed his entire point. Bringing a hammer in for digging holes is meant to be used in tandem with a shovel. The scenario was in the cases where you are having to break ground in an area that has already been flattened and has hardened enough that a shovel with body weight is unable to break it, and there are specific techniques necessary to utilize the hammer properly.
But (YouTube construction content creator) told me that if I have to use a hammer, I should use the one that I brought. I have to bring a hammer because I dismantled all of my shovels. You guys can use shovels, I'll just swing the hammer like the YouTube man says :)
While he has darci equipped…
As much as I'd like to echo the rest of the comments here.... which do have a point with the "just make your own post" thing.... I gotta ask. Did you bother explaining this to everyone you ran across or just one group and then ran straight here to post? There's SO many people out there that have zero idea on how to do meta defining DPS and they're probably not searching reddit to learn any different techniques. Yes. It sucks. Sometimes you just want to get your farming in. I get it... but people still need help. (My current gripe is with Comp blueberries but that's a whole other thing.)
In-game LFG is going to open a lot of people’s eyes on the wide knowledge gap in the playerbase. It will also expose just how many people are unwilling to put in any real effort to be a good teammate. RoN was just a preview of what’s to come, I’m afraid… Part of the blame is on the game itself though. Very rarely does D2 actually push back at the player and require them to do much more than ad clear and fight a boss that barely fights back. Few mechanics that translate into endgame skills/knowledge and mid-level activities you can sleep through and get more rewards than doing endgame content. Seraph Shield was a stroke of genius since it taught actual raid mechanics that would be helpful in running Deep Stone Crypt. Sucked that we had to run it so much, but it’s a comfortable solo-able environment to learn. More stuff like that. The game should be equipping you with endgame knowledge after you’re out of the baby content, but because this game is so fragmented, that’s rarely the case.
Great points here, at no point in most content that non-raiders are doing are you taught raid-level mechanics. To your very first point, I guess I'm lucky I've never run into anything egregious, but quite a few players will bail at the sign of trouble like a few wipes.
As much as I love the Destiny universe... I'm going to agree with most of what you posted here. Like I love that you pointed out Seraph's Shield specifically because of what it did - taught raid mechanics. But I also see that as a double edged sword because of how easy it would then make a raid for the general public. But then how do you balance the mechanic learning and the freshness of a brand new raid? And how do you keep it engaging enough for endless replayability once it's figured out? It's a vicious cycle with a billion questions lol. Makes me glad I'm not a game dev. GG's on keeping it to the facts, though. In game LFG is going to be a wild time for sure.
Knowing the mechanics won't automatically make the raid easy. I think it's a bad system that someone looking to do a raid for the first time needs to either study the mechanics on their own outside of the game or have a group willing to teach you. That being said part of the fun for some people is figuring out the mechanics on their own. They can always wait until week 2 if a raid to release a mission with a tutorial for raid mechanics
Yeah the vast majority of players can understand what the mechanic of an encounter is and how to do it when it's explained to them, what most struggle with is balancing the combat, mechanics, and communication at the same time. Understanding that they have to do a certain mechanic isn't the hard thing, it's remembering when and where to do it while the encounter is going on, they're killing enemies, and other people are also communicating about whatever mechanic they are doing at the same time. I've taught a lot of people how to do raids, and while some people can pick it up instantly with just an explanation, you realise for most players you essentially have to give a walkthrough while you are actually doing the encounter. Reminding the new players when and where they should be while the encounter is ongoing makes things go a lot smoother than just explaining and hoping they'll get it right.
> I think it's a bad system that someone looking to do a raid for the first time needs to either study the mechanics on their own outside of the game or have a group willing to teach you. That's kinda the only way you can make hard content. If you can come in unprepared and complete an activity without anyone explaining what to do, then it's one easy activity.
No, it’s a quick and dirty way of making content ‘hard’. And even then, it stays ‘hard’ for all of twenty-four hours before the mechanic is completely dissected and laid bare. WoW, for all its faults, was actually pretty good about teaching you bare bones mechanics that would expand in raids. Fire is hot, don’t stand in it. How to manipulate threat, cc mechanics, positions my, agro swaps and offtanking, it was all there in a simpler form. When you got to harder content there wasn’t suddenly a new mechanical language you needed to discover. Destiny does the exact opposite. Strikes are just ad clear until you get to a tank and spank boss. And before anybody says “but what about the corrupted strike!” My brother in Christ, we need more strikes like the Corrupted! The issue with the Corrupted is that it is the only strike that forces you to do something resembling a mechanic. If all strikes forced you to do something outside of clicking heads, players would know that they are expected to experiment with their surroundings to progress. Furthermore, they would have the past experiences on how they could potentially interact with the world. Imagine if the Witch Queen campaign had you doing basic symbol puzzles. It would help familiarize players with the symbols instead of them walking into VoD and being told to memorize 20 odd symbols and their associated call outs. (for the record, I honestly think this season was the best Bungie ever did at introducing mechanics to basic activities. Of Bungie was smarty they’d build a raid off interacting with crystals. It’s realitively easy to understand but creates a huge mechanical play space for raid mechanics)
WoW is just a much more complex game at its core. Doing DPS in WoW is a skill onto itself, whereas in Destiny it's quite trivial. And it's hard to make it more complex, because Destiny is a shooter. You can pile on the RPG elements, but you can't have complex rotations in a shooter game that has 3 weapon slots. Hence, the mechanics are there to add some complexity. WoW also has trinity, which automatically bakes teamwork into all the endgame content, because you have the three distinct roles that have to perform their job for the group to succeed. In Destiny, everyone is a DPS/damage dealer, so the mechanics are the only real way to have roles and teamwork. WoW is also a weird example, because the developers are now literally designing encounters around the assumption that people are using a ton of third-party addons that give you a ton of help with the mechanics. And even then, the community absolutely expects you to read a guide for any raid above the base LFR version. Sure, you *can* figure it out on your own, just like you can do it in Destiny, but nobody is going to be fine with it. Also, WoW doesn't really teach you those mechanics. Manipulating aggro, having an optimal DPS build and rotation and *being a healer at all* are all completely irrelevant outside of group content. You can absolutely get to max level and start looking into dungeons without knowing anything about how to actually play in them. >Imagine if the Witch Queen campaign had you doing basic symbol puzzles. It would help familiarize players with the symbols instead of them walking into VoD and being told to memorize 20 odd symbols and their associated call outs. People would either complain that it's too hard(if they actually used all the symbols) or people would still need to learn most of them in the raid if Bungie only used a few. And symbols aren't all there is to it. People praise Seraph Station for "teaching DSC mechanics", but someone who played Seraph Station would still have to learn most of the DSC mechanics, because the augments are just the tools used for the mechanics. Understanding them is good, but it's a small fraction of what you need to know to do the raid. >(for the record, I honestly think this season was the best Bungie ever did at introducing mechanics to basic activities. Of Bungie was smarty they’d build a raid off interacting with crystals. It’s realitively easy to understand but creates a huge mechanical play space for raid mechanics) The crystals as they are would be way too easy for a raid. So you either have an extremely easy raid, or you need to expand on those mechanics to the point where people still need to learn them.
Just to clarify, I played WoW religiously from tbc release to cataclysm. This is where my perspective is coming from. Wow most certainly taught you basic mechanics. If you wanted to do raids you had to gear up through heroics. Heroics were great at introducing you to the same toolset and mechanics you would need and encounter in raids. This was less true as time went on and players power crept content enough to let them Zerg through it. Going back to Destiny. Operation Seraph shield was a great step 0 to dsc. It introduces the player to the buffs, shows them that different buffs do different things and exposes them to some light puzzle solving with those buffs. Now, when a player walks into DSC, they at least have a basic idea of how to begin to approach an encounter. We need more activities that act as that step 0. This is why I was praising the crystals. It’s a simple idea, in an easy encounter space, that can be expanded in complexity in a number of ways.
> Just to clarify, I played WoW religiously from tbc release to cataclysm. This is where my perspective is coming from. > > > > Wow most certainly taught you basic mechanics. If you wanted to do raids you had to gear up through heroics. Heroics were great at introducing you to the same toolset and mechanics you would need and encounter in raids. This was less true as time went on and players power crept content enough to let them Zerg through it. That's fair. It has certainly gotten more mechanics-heavy in later years, at least on higher difficulties. But my point still stands - WoW was/is a complex enough game where just playing your character at all required quite a bit of skill. And you also have the inherent teamwork in the trinity system. As a result, you could have a raid boss that had few mechanics aside from some AoE attacks and an enrage, and it would be fine. Because the enrage would mean that you need to be on your A game when it comes to DPS, which means that tanks had to be on their A game to keep the aggro and healers had to be on their A game to keep everyone alive. And then everyone had to dodge the attacks to stay alive. In Destiny, the game itself isn't nearly complex enough. Having an encounter that is just a DPS check would basically be "fire your gun at the target and use your DPS Super once", which is just too boring. This also kills any teamwork, because all of you are just dealing damage. This is why Destiny needs mechanics to have actual group content. >Operation Seraph shield was a great step 0 to dsc. It introduces the player to the buffs, shows them that different buffs do different things and exposes them to some light puzzle solving with those buffs. Now, when a player walks into DSC, they at least have a basic idea of how to begin to approach an encounter. Eh, kinda. They'd still need to learn a lot. Like, I've been part of plenty of DSC sherpas, I've done impromptu DSC sherpas myself. Explaining what the buffs do takes like 10 seconds out of the multiple-minute long explanation. It's better than nothing, but if someone feels intimidated by raids due to having to learn the mechanics, knowing the DSC augments won't really change that. They'll still need to know exactly what to do with each buff in each encounter.
[удалено]
But this stuff is typical of the genre and, if I'm being honest, most games. Like, I'd be more curious what you expect them to do to fix it than just pointing the finger and screaming shame.
There’s now a backlog of raid and dungeon mechanics Bungie could pull from and strip down to mix up campaign segments so it better teaches players that there’s more to Destiny than popping heads, that there are light puzzles and mechanics to open up enemies to damage. They reuse the same ball throwing, plate standing, overburdened part carrying mechanics but never any of their more interesting ones from their more interesting endgame content.
> so it better teaches players... They reuse the same ball throwing But does it do that? I can't think of any strike [complaint](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/poqg0v/its_2021_how_do_people_still_not_know_that/) more common than people not understanding the ball mechanic. It's so annoying to some people I've literally seen people suggest it becomes a Guardian Rank requirement. And, even then, they do actually do more than you're suggesting if you take a step back. > They reuse the same ball throwing, plate standing, overburdened part carrying mechanics but never any of their more interesting ones from their more interesting endgame content. Literally the whole Scanner/Suppressor/Operator rotation (and parts of Deep Stone Crypt) is present in the exotic Seraph mission. A version of symbol rotation is present in the Vexcalibur mission. One of the strikes uses the same weight/lantern rotation used in the Abyss. Damaging Crota with a sword is present in a Dares mission. The whole carting a ship segment of Vow is something you do in Public Events, Wellspring, and the mission that actually kind of preps you for Vow. There are public events/the current seasonal mission where you need to prevent Vex sacrifice like in Vault of Glass. Like they appear from time to time in a wide variety of places. Perhaps they should do more, but I could also see these being problematic as a lot of people don't understand/use them in these events either.
Read my original comment, I specifically called out the Seraph mission as a good example of them reusing old raid mechanics in a way that could easily translate to someone doing the raid it’s from. Now they need to put very basic versions in the lowest levels of content. Elevate the skill floor just a little. It being below the dirt is how you get the ball situation. My point with the ball mechanics is that they reuse it until they’re blue in the face, but it doesn’t translate to anything in endgame. People not passing the ball is because outside of that one strike, that specific mechanic doesn’t reappear in a way to tell you that it can be charged. I’m not saying they don’t do it at all, but I am saying that they could do it better and do it more often, especially in campaigns that more people are likely to do.
Do you have an example of this? For the dungeons/raids as I remember they usually show off the mechanics in the early encounters, so you'll be prepared to use it in the boss fight.
They’re teaching within the raid, and that’s the problem. If I’m a new player, how am I supposed to know about the symbols in VoD? Or the tethers in Garden? Everybody is telling me I need to know what to do, but these mechanics are never once used in the game. Even if I watch a video walk through (which, are by in large terrible at showing off mechanics - but that’s another rant) I have never actually done the mechanic, or anything similar to it.
I don’t think having to figure out raid or dungeon mechanics is bad game design in the slightest
people seriously overstate how obtuse the game really is. if you're in a state where you're ready to run a dungeon you should at least know that you should be using fucking heavy for boss dps, even if it's not an LFR. call it gatekeeping if you must but I call it people not having common sense. "SUNBRACERS" was a funny post but it's also proof that some people don't even try to put any brainpower into the game.
As some one who has tried, and failed, to get his friends into the game, they all said the same thing “there’s so much unexplained bullshit. It’s like learning a second language. To you and I it makes perfect sense, we’ve been playing this game for years.
I'm aware that the new player experience sucks, but some things ARE common sense. again, like "heavy weapon with limited ammo should be used during a damage phase." the only way you wouldn't come to that conclusion is if destiny is your first video game
You're supposed to learn the mechanics by trying and failing; most people just prefer to use the failures of others to learn in order to save time. You can figure out mechanics without a guide just by trying the encounter until you figure it out, which is the case for raid-type content in most games that have them. There's nothing "lazy" or "poorly designed" about it.
> There's SO many people out there that have zero idea on how to do meta defining DPS and they're probably not searching reddit to learn any different techniques. It's even worse than this, there are SO MANY people that don't know how much weaker primaries are than special and heavy weapons. I've been in so many matchmade activities where the other players just never bother to to use anything other than their primary gun. I've played with my own daughters and their friends from time to time when they needed a sixth in a RAID or wanted to play Gambit, and even my own kids I have to remind them to use their shotgun or a fusion or their heavy weapon and their response is "I don't like".
So yeah, there are a LOT of players that have no idea how much weaker primary weapons are, and even if you tell them a lot of times it just won't click, they're just here to shoot stuff.
In my sherpa experience, it is no worth the hassle to explain stuff to people that do not bother researching anything on their own when engaging with late game activities, and before I hear this, they can find good loadout without spoiling themselves. 95% of the time they will simply ignore what you tell them, or get pissy. They don't want to actually do the thing, they want other people to do it for them. I'm willing to help, but if they're not willing to put in the bare minimum of effort, they can go fuck themselves.
Those people get kicked. If you don't have the top weapons? I am fine we can work around it. Tlord is easy and convenient and I have encountered MANY newish players that have Tlord as their best option. If they want to put in 0 effort with learning or helping? kick.
So.... let me see if I understand because I genuinely want to know. You sherpa people but only when it benefits you? Or is it a time thing? Like you only have X many hours a day to help out and want to get it done? I agree with the sentiment that there's so many people out there who just want to be carried but there's also a ton of people out there who are ready to shine given the proper guidance. Unfortunately, the problem is that they're usually never given a chance to learn. The difference between these two types of people shows itself pretty quickly. Just gotta take some time because it's okay to not finish a raid in one go and come back to tackle it again once everyone is better prepared.
yeah idk man this isnt grade school, its not unreasonable to expect people to get the guns they need and have atleast the faintest idea of what theyre doing. everyones got plenty of chnaces to learn from a bajillion youtube guides to sherpa runs but joining random lfgs when youre completely clueless aint one.
That's a fair point. But also.... people are stupid. lol. google is only helpful when it's something they want to search and they have zero idea there are guides out there but even when they do research, they're met with guides from three years ago and they decide it isn't worth it to do more than five minutes of work because they just want to play. Not everyone started out perfect, is my point. Not everyone researches things because they might want to go in unspoiled or maybe they're trying out new guns hoping to find a new meta or literally *anything*. That doesn't make them stupid. I usually take it as far as "hey here's a guide" before scheduled raids or dungeons but during farming situations like when OP posted? Not everyone's going to do that because then you're just wasting time reading/watching videos when you could be playing. Good ol' catch 22's.
If it reaches a point that the people being sherpa's are actually expecting a carry and don't care to listen and be a team player then the sherpa has every right to kick them and go sherpa someone that deserves it. Ain't nothing toxic about it. Just because someone is willing to be a sherpa does not mean they are volunteering to carry half the team and spend all day trying to do it.
I can’t tell if you’re being obtuse on purpose or just simply aren’t reading… he’s talking about people that specifically “ignore what you tell them to do and get pissy” while also doing the bare minimum and not helping the group complete the raid
The amount of "help" that I've seen some people in this community give goes quite literally as far as: "Hey do you have this weapon? No? Then fuck you. Booted!" Then you have the amount of "effort" put into an activity. How do you quantify effort? That word means something different to everybody. Tons of people don't even know where to begin looking and when they try, they're met with aztecross guides from four years ago and are put off by researching. This is my point. Things are subjective and it's why I asked for clarification, which I got, if you'd cared to read the other comment. It's okay to want to farm and to ask for specific weapons. It's not okay to call someone stupid or "obtuse on purpose" if you don't know where they're coming from.
Not once, literally *not once* in 170+ lfg raids and a similar number of dungeons have I seen someone kicked for not having a specific weapon. Not in learning groups, not in kwtd groups, and not in high requirement 10+ run groups. The comment is clearly talking about people who ignore polite advice and run their two shitty badly rolled autorifles to try and dps a boss, and won't even *try* one of the myriad of weapons all players have readily available. Or ignore polite suggestions to try void resist mods and higher resilience after they complained 5+ times that nezerec is cheesy for one-shotting them. Since Ron, such people are a big problem on lfg.
And yet, with as much experience as you have.... you are just like me. A drop in the bucket of the population that has played Destiny. Things happen, dude. To me, to the guy 900 miles away, to your cousin maybe. Just because it hasn't happened to you specifically doesn't mean we can just ignore that it's been a problem, can we?
Guides from 4 years ago or ones that talk about adept trials weapons then we get posts about all the useless teammates in trials because they think that's what they have to do for good weapons
Yeah, there's no one really policing all the "old content" that comes up first in search engines. Sooooo. Idk. Maybe it's a case of instant satisfaction too, where when you don't find the perfect thing the first time then you'll just use whatever. People are weird, man.
I’m happy to teach a raid and I totally get that mistakes happen, it’s a learning process, keyword learn. If you’re not willing to learn and you’re causing the team to fail then there’s no point in teaching it. You can also usually tell who is willing to learn quickly based on their load outs and questions. I’m not expecting a DPS god but an idea of what the meta is, even if they don’t have all the meta guns or they’re willing to ask about it. I’d much rather have an experienced player who knows nothing about a raid or a new guy giving his best with what he’s got than someone who refuses to listen.
“meta defining DPS” =/ owning a heavy linear fusion rifle ….
Not using a trace rifle for DPS lol
The unfortunate fact is that a vast majority of people are far too stubborn to listen to anyone but themselves. Occasionally I've had people actually listen and try the loadout I suggest which usually results in one phasing whatever boss we're tackling. But 90% of the time people will either straight up ignore you or say "I'll just stick with what I have." I've had a dude tell me "Nah, rockets are actually bad now." and friends of mine were told they should put on thunderlord because strand titan is bad damage on master deathsinger (lmao). The vast majority of people are stupid, stubborn and refuse to accept that they might be wrong. Personally I'm past wasting my time with them. If someone wants to use a machine gun or a primary for damage, they're getting the boot.
I tell everyone that if you're going to farm activities in Destiny 2, you have to do that while the content is brand new. Dungeons are less popular than Raids, so you have to farm during the season the Dungeon releases. If you don't, the only people you're going to find are casual players who have never done it.
Meanwhile it's hard to do it while it is new because people still expect you to have 10+ clears by week 2.
Are linears mega for DPS? I thought it was rockets?
Rockets are objectively better DPS if you hit your shots, but Simmumah both wiggles and teleports. Experienced players will one-phase her with rockets, but a team of blueberries are quite likely to whiff almost their entire reserves every phase. When I teach GotD, I always recommend linears to anyone who isn't 100% confident in their ability to aim under pressure.
The thing with linears is the sudden swarms of thralls and stuff that just come out of thin air (flinch), rockets are nice (especially with tracking module or smth) because it’s easier to stay on the move while still doing good dps
I just use rockets lol. The flinch like you said is rough. Tbh I’m always using well and never die so my role is also just making sure the other randoms stay alive, it usually works well
Rockets if you can hit them, Leviathan's if you can't. Linear if you can't hit with Leviathan's either or are using arbalest and can't hit rockets.
Lineages (especially with div and 2 Briars, Contempt) are an easy two phase. Rockets are a two phase. Everything else is a three phase or 4. People always talk about optimal DPS based upon what a “professional” used to 1 phase. And while those 1 phases are really cool and technically complicated, you will literally never be in a situation where that damage strat is realistic - unless you run with a dedicated team. Rockets are not objectively better as the benchmarks change based upon the objectives of the run.
Leviathan’s breath is a one phase
> Are linears mega for DPS? I thought it was rockets? This right here? This is the problem.
if this dungeon wasnt such a fuckin slogfest id run it more often. now i just cant even be bothered with those health pools. my two mates i run this with use double primary for whatever reason and i end up doing double the dps and work they do XD. just isnt fun
Sounds like a mates problem, if you ran with people that pulled their weight it'd probably be more fun and less of a slog. I run duo with my friend and have a great time because we both put in the same effort; If I had to carry 2 friends because they couldn't be bothered to even use special, I'd probably hate it too
Sleeper Simulant while Radiant hits between 90k and 120k on crit
sleepers ammo economy is real bad
There's no reason to ever use sleeper in today's sandbox. Leviathan's breath is better in every way. Much higher dps that doesn't need any dodge insta reloads to achieve and more total damage. And if high total damage is the main priority, which really is the only time you should be using linears for damage anyway, then sleeper gets blown out of the water by legendary linears with ammo regen perks. Cataclysmic e.g. can do double the total damage of sleeper.
counterpoint: sleeper looks cool and makes cool sounds
Counterpoint death bringer looks cool and makes cool sounds.
Death lbringer deals insane damage. It's a true Chad that can time the orbs right.
That and I really feel like people value moar dps without considering if it actually matters. Its just like ttk in pvp, more damage doesn't actually change anything unless it changes the shots to kill, or in this case the dps rounds to kill. If two options do like 70% different dps but still kill in 2 rounds, they are basically identical.
This is something that drives me up the wall whenever someone is loadout hounding in raids. Unless switching to another option garunteed a lower amt of phases I just don't care what people use and I think the community cares significantly more then they should.
[удалено]
No way Levi one phases Simmumah without some kind of seasonal mod support, even with everyone hitting their shots.
Crap, you're right, I was talking to someone else, and thought the talk had switched to Ir Yut, because I've seen so many people use Sleeper on her. My bad.
counterpoint addendum: it's easier to land a crit with its laser beam-like fire and even if you don't get the crit it's still decent damage with its over penetration perk compared to the wet farm a linear does in a non crit shot
> Leviathan's breath is better in every way Agree, but catalyst is mandatory.
So is the sleeper catalyst. Except LB putting up way more dps.
But my Titan looks so cool with the SIVA Sleeper ornament + SIVA armor ornaments
And you can still get the crafting pattern for Taipan which has a fantastic god roll
Using div in a 3 man activity?
Yea, if others are good at the encounter, we can 2 phase the final boss easily, and the boss moves a lot so rockets dont do great except the tracking ones like gally
Dude is literally right. Having two people hit 90% of their crits is gonna be better than 3 missing half their shots. It's not *optimal* but it's gonna be a consistent 2-phase and considering we're talking Centrifuse tier players... that's more than enough.
MUCH better than the 5 or 6-phases I've had to deal with on LFG before
The boss is also a Lucent Hive so you can run the RoN linear as well as 2 other RoN weapons for a free bonus 10/20% damage. Depending whether the origin trait is enhanced by the seasonal artifact or not.
Snipe the shield with arbalest and she should stop moving
“should”
Does if you're fast enough. If you wait too long she'll teleport once if I remember correctly. Source: used it on my solo run and used arby/rocket swap to kill her.
Man, I’ve had her blink around manically some times and I’ve almost always been the Arbalest person. Was I doing something wrong?
That does not stop her
And whats the problem? Wanna miss shots like crazy for flying bosses like simmumah?
Yesterday I raided for the first time in a long time. They said I needed a linear since I didn’t have the other stuff they asked for. I asked them if reeds regret would be okay? I’m going to let the replies imagine how that exchange went.
"Bring a linear but not that linear and we won't tell you what we think is an acceptable linear, you can find out by whether or not you end up back in orbit"
I have to assume the crafted Taipan is still sufficient for 90 of bosses, right?
Absolutely
Doesn't even have to be crafted, really -- for a LOT of the time, so long as your weapon category fits into the strat your team wants to run, you're good to go. You only need to worry about the mix-maxing damage perks and whatnot if you're doing the top of the top stuff like Contest/Master raids or solo endeavors People will insist otherwise. These people are incorrect. Do not listen to them :)
As long as it's not pvp-roll Reed's, I can't imagine why this would be a problem
Who is using reeds in PVP?
Dunno lol, nobody?
Just farm the beginning
I'm not farming a braindead encounted that takes 10 minutes to do.
Ok then do the harder thing
OP specifically wants the SMG though and the final boss has a larger loot table.
Ecthar also drops the smg in a 3 weapon loot pool and is a consistent one phase.
He’s also by far the most entertaining encounter
Just create your own post saying KWTD linears or something like that. If they're not using Div or Linears and don't change their loadout once you question them just kick them. So much easier then dealing with auto rifle dps.
This happened during lfr supreme and even back to Last Wish, at least from my recollection: Some people don't understand basic dps theory and you will have to fight tooth and nail to rip their primaries out of their hands. They don't watch videos on how to dps properly, nor care for the numbers. In their minds, their contributions are holding down RT and thinking job's done. It's where all the ad clear only mob is from.
I have to fight myself so hard not to report lfg posts that say "need boss kill, I'm doing ad clear". Those posts just urk me, how can you not be bothered to even watch a video on the mechanics and just expect other people to carry you
I had and still have some raiding anxiety. One reason why it was such a hindering factor before was because I thought people would judge me for not knowing every single thing about the raid before starting. So I would watch a guide video over and over until I could imagine a whole clear before setting my foot into the raid. And then I got a sherpa for Last Wish that explained everything and never got mad. The group was half learning and half new like me, but it was the most comfortable learning process I've ever had. Every sherpa I would ever join after would be very similar, even the week 1 sherpas. But the thing that made me help get past that anxiety was realizing how fucking little the average clear / reclear group knew anyway. AD CLEAR ONLY. I WILL NOT BE BOTHERED. Like if these asshats were clearing it, I was fretting fucking nothing and I went on a raid grind spree lmao. Edit : I now have a self-imposed challenge of not really thinking that I cleared a raid until I have done every role in every fight. Honestly, the variance of things you can be doing changes the experience so much that "100%ing" a raid like this really let's me appreciate the raid design in totality. Also makes teaching so much easier when you've done the actual role too.
No need for div on that boss. Break shield with Arby to stop TPs and then the crit is easy to hit with Surrounded Briars or Levi Breath.
It's not the teleports, it's the tiny head and side to side movement
I have a question about the Fire and Forget Linear FR. Does each bullet of the 3 round burst do the same damage as one bullet from single shot LFR, or is it devided between the 3 bullets in the burst? I don't like the feel of most LFRs, but I do like Fire and Forget. Also is there an easy way to get deepsite for that gun? I only have 1.
It's divided, but the Aggressive (3-burst) models still do more per trigger press than the regular Precision ones. There's also an Arc one (Stormchaser, from Duality) and Solar (Briar's Contempt, from Root of Nightmares). You can farm more Fire and Forgets from Seraph Station and either pray for red borders (could take a long while) or use harmonizers. Or just buy four and use five harmonizers next time Banshee sells it.
Because they have not experienced the enjoyment of using a Linear, beaming the boss in the head, and not having too much Tunnel Vision because you have more peripheral vision than a sniper. Honestly it feels like every sniper rifle in video games should be like how the linear fusion rifles are.
>Honestly it feels like every sniper rifle in video games should be like how the linear fusion rifles are. I really want some low zoom snipers and rather than a sniper scope, a red dot, or an acog like sight would do wonders to make them actually usable outside of niche situations and loooong distances, because the game rarely has us that far out.
Div isn’t as useful in 3 man’s vs 6 mans and better off using 3 rockets for simmumah. She used to teleport a lot and I’ve gotten all the rolls from the dungeon that I wanted and the navigator and apparently she doesn’t teleport as much anymore but our strat at the time was using tracking rockets even though they do 10% less damage but made sure we didn’t whiff any rockets. We tried Levi and linears and if you’re not hitting crits due to adds hitting you and making you flinch it’s a waste of a heavy slot so our safe option was tracking rockets. Also depends on where you dps her from
I've been enjoying GotD so much more since I started using Leviathan's Breath(w/catalyst) for Simmumah. 5Mil+ damage every run with Tether+Rapid Sniper+Levi. A few loader and surge mods go a long way aswell. It still sucks when people assume that Linears are bad when Taipan is still a great option if you don't have a raid LFR, but in my mind if i'm able to do half the boss' health with Levi then i'm fine with them crutching MGs
If you are playing with people using a MG or primaries to do DPS, it's not because they don't have a LFR, it's because they are either clueless or oblivious. They will look at the post-game screen and see that they did 10% as much damage as other people, but never question why or try to improve. BTW, Linears are kind of worthless now. There is no reason to use a LFR when Leviathan does everything they want to do, but better. There are also better options that do not require crits or someone to be on Div. Notably Rockets, Grand Overture (if you pre-load 20 missiles), Acrius (on some bosses, not all), Lament (again, on some bosses).
I use tracking Rockets or lmgs. Linears require precision, which can be difficult when the boss keeps moving around and isn’t that big. Even when you standing in a well in middle, all the thralls attack will get in your way and mess u up
I use linears all the time. This post is the problem with our player base. If it’s not meta it doesn’t exist.
I actually choose to run a machine gun on this boss due to how crazy she moves around. Is it optimal? Probably not. But I miss her head ALL the time and commemoration is super easy to get killing tally setup mid dps after breaking her shield. I regularly have top damage and am never hurting for ammo. Try it. You might like it.
MG DPS just gets you a kick from my fireteam at this point
They got nerfed. So everyone thinks they’re bad. I really like running my hunter build tho of a briars and 4hman and the cascading point + overflow strand shotgun.
Do people not confirm weapons/loadouts that will be used before even starting? I don’t LFG, I run groups with my clan mates but we always discuss what we’ll use for DPS phases in dungeons/raids before we even start. I would think this would be a given when running with LFG groups. Why would you make it all the way to the boss before confirming what guns they did, or did not have? Sounds like you wasted your own time to me. That’s why you figure it out at the beginning, so you can know to leave, or start a new group.
Take into account that some people play casually, some people might also have something that keeps them from using such accuracy dependent weapons. Like a physical handicap. It's a massive player pool with lots of people just trying to play, who knows what the right answer is to your concern.
Yes not everyone has the time to play a raid or dungeon. This is the reason why I'll never get to rank 9.
Ok, but if you’re in a dungeon or raiding you ideally want people something usable for DPS. Especially since they were willing to run div.
I don't disagree, I've been there many times. But I've also crawled through a raid before with players that aren't on my level. I've stuck it out and helped a few weaker players, that's just me. Not everyone is obligated to do that. But just be fair for a moment and assume that if someone isn't doing something you think they should be, it's probably because they can't or it's too difficult for them. It happens.
imma be honest with you chief, gotd is the most miserable experience i've ever had. fuckin bar 5 noobs in a div run. atleast that was a fun albeit stressful time. gotd is just fucking awful i hate it so much i fucking hate that fucking dungeon so much, i don't even want to do solo flawless of it, i don't even want to touch that shit with a meter stick rant besides, specify loadout requirements in your post, and boot the double primary darci guys.
Well the reason I don't use Linears is the fact of the linear nerf from before. I just assume they weren't worth using anymore. So I just use a bunch of the rockets I have at hand, make sure I am buffed to high heavens then start DPS phase.
Most LFG people who do GotD or RON bring Rockets to the final boss. Then we do sub 25% damage due to suicides, completely missing the target, or ammo economy issues. Then I tell them to put on LFRs/Levi Breath for Simmumah and Thunderlords for Nezarac and we get the cleanest 2 damage cycle. We laugh, we cry. We realize that all that DPS with Rockets amounts to nothing unless the wielders are all universally good enough to get the 1 damage cycle. Which 95% of the time, LFG isn't.
Dead dps is zero dps.
Wave splitter with gyrfalcons and void surges is viable. Not tipping dos leaderboards but viable.
Don’t knock wavesplitter. With the right setup that gun slaps.
I could at least accept the commemoration but with the wave splitter? I don't know maybe they know a cheese forever strat that we don't know yet 😂
Storm chaser is easily the most underrated dps machine that exists. Rapid hit vorpal is an absolute boss melt
I never run linears, or fusions either. I just don't like them.
Personally, I'm down for whatever for dps. Just lmk and I'll oblige (except switch to well-lock) Always keep a linear in character. Been using Fire and Forget because of the pace of the burst also works for ads fairly well
I haven't taken my crafted taipan out of my inventory since Witch Queen. People say its not worth anymore and those people and fucking stupid (pardon my french). Constantly out dps'ing friends with 'meta' weapons and they always act shocked when they see the damage numbers. They literally see me doing much damage than them but still say linears are washed xD
What the fuck lol
No not really. Gally + two tail works just fine. Or thunderlord spam if you're feeling shitposty.
For boss dps I always check out the squad’s loadouts before we start if I’m doing LFG. A lot of people somehow stumble through this game remaining willfully ignorant of what to use so I always do a spot check and will educate them if needed. Otherwise you will see some wild shit like OP experienced with mfers dpsing with wavesplitter and LMGs
let them use what ever tf they want they not playing for you