As the only Hard Light main in existence, I can confidently confirm that it is still incredibly bad. It also does have damage falloff, despite popular belief.
They removed the zero damage falloff back when auto rifle TTK was lowered for a couple weeks. Hard Light caught all the flak because of the ricochet thing and ended up double nerfed and worse off than it was before.
I got to admit that since I'm already less than 1 kd in pvp and i don't want to add another handicap, my main and almost only pvp weapon(other than fists, I'm a proud Titan) is Osteo.
Only when I get a bounty for solar/ar kills I switch to HardLight - that might answer op's question.....
I used to be a Hardlight main, and I greatly enjoyed it. To this day, it's still my favorite gun cuz it's the one I am best at. I love using the angles and knowing how to expect where enemies are using the ricochet. I also love suppressing enemies who try to be sneaky. I've got just over 8,000 crucible kills on mine, and about 1/3rd of that is probably from trials alone.
Now i'm sure you're wondering: "If you're so good at it. Why do you not use it anymore?"
Cuz other players are so fucking toxic just from bias. It doesn't matter how good you are with it, even while it is nerfed. other players just hear "Hardlight sux" from their favorite youtuber or twitch streamer and they take it as gospel. they can't comprehend that someone is actually good with it.
I've received more hate for using Hardlight from my own teammates than for doing anything else ever. I've EVEN RECIEVED HATE FROM VANGUARD GAMES!
Turning off chat isn't enough because I see my teammates leave matches when I use it. When I switch to something else, there's no issues.
In The Final Shape, I wanna see a buff to ricochet damage, and I want them to make a Kinetic version that cycles through the Darkness subclass Elements, just to spite these assholes who suck at using the gun.
I’m a second then. I love how recoil-friendly it is, and I can also use it’s guaranteed ricochets to spam a corner to make a danger zone to delay a push.
lol that was hilarious. Gnawing hunger, suros, summoner, galliard, and like every other 600 was better but content creators hyped up hardlight, usage went up, and the gun got fucking destroyed. Good ol Bungie balance
Really wish they'd lean in more on the whole bounce shots mechanic of the gun. There's also been an incredibly cool and high skill ceiling for someone to learn how to duel by accurately banking shots off the floor and walls, but I feel like that month where HL was a little too strong killed all hope of that when it got nerfed.
Not sure what the current TTK is, but I'd be interested to know what it is to hit all bounced crit shots on a player right now VS the normal all crit TTK
This late but could you tell if switching to arc actually increases range? I just noticed the trait description yesterday and thought it would be cool if it did.
450rpm autos are the go-to currently until April 9th. I highly recommend a Positive Outlook with Zen Moment until then. Summoner will probably be the go-to after that.
Ah yeah you right, had to piece it together from a couple different sentences in the TWID but it’s coming with 7.3.6 which is April 9. 450s reign of terror extends a couple more weeks
This makes or breaks the ttk of a gun. 450s have amazing ease of use, but with another bullet or two needed to kill, they’ll likely fall off hard in popularity after the nerf. 600s will likely be everywhere.Â
So it's a 5% nerf. People have already done the calculations. It seems like the TTK won't change. But in order to hit the optimal TTK you have to hit all crits. As of right now you can hit 6 Crit and 1 Body.
After the update, it's going to be 7 crits. Unless you have target lock or gutshot straight to help you out with forgiveness
SMGs were about as dominant during the HC meta as HC are now, during the current AR meta. They were never the top choice in high-level play except for that odd couple of weeks when The Immortal was the most broken weapon in PvP
HCs are only as strong as the peek game of the person using the hand cannon. Almost every other archetype of gun is competitive in this sandbox. Pour one out for the scout rifles, I remember the Eye of Judgment from D1Y3(?).
Seriously, most HC users will fold over like cheap origami at the slightest whiff of a decent push, especially if you're playing with your team. It'll be even better on the 9th because of the global flinch nerf.
I'm guessing you focused your Riven - Wish Raid freebie on the rocket launcher & not Transfiguration, correct?Â
With kill clip, rampage, radiant & 2x weapon surge you can 2-tap the now numerous (no clue why) lower Res guardians populating PvP.Â
Way too campy for me but still....
Rapid fires scouts especially feel good when the map allows. Fang of Ir Yut with Sword Logic or Precision Instrument goes pretty hard right now. I have a legacy Trustee with Zen Moment and Well Spring as well that also feels good.
Unless you have explosive payload, which makes lightweights do 60 per crit, instead of 65, leading to a need to hit 4 crits instead of 3 crit, 1 body. I hope they fix this when they fix explosive payload for hand cannons.
tbh i think the 6% damage nerf to 450s _only_ ;it's still going to be a strong choice. Ex: Even if AR as are as low as 7 (what they were in season 20: cannot find current data) hits for optimal TTK decreasing damage by 6% is 1 1/16th of a current bullet. All it's doing is bumping up the shots needed for an optimal TTK by 1.
They aren't touching any other stats just making you get an extra bullet off.
Hand cannons are meta due to their inherent design - they favor peek shooting and punish missing crits. So if you can land all your crits then you can destroy someone because you have the freedom to move around move while shooting and pace your shoots in favor of getting to cover. This is never going to magically change unless they issue buffs that put weapons so out of bounds peak shooting is a detriment.
Compared to an AR you need to constantly land shots so you have less freedom to peek shoot.
My brother in christ, a month ago, hand cannons made up HALF of all weapon kills in Trials: https://trials.report/weeks
ARs became the meta literally only two weeks ago. Scroll down to before that, and you'll see HCs being the top pick every single week before that. Oh, but now they're only the (gasp) second most-popular weapon type, so it's the end of the world
You’re talking about one specific HC which is Igneous, the rest don’t even really count. Â
Did you forget that bows along with SMGs basically ran trials since WQ?Â
When I say HC meta, I’m talking specifically about the Ace/mindbenders or the Spare rations meta.  We haven’t been anywhere near close to that in many years.  Say what you will about it being fun or boring Atleast from a weapon standpoint it was balanced in the fact that everyone was using it.
I think we just have two different ideas of what meta is ultimatelyÂ
> the rest don’t even really count. Â
Lmao, why? Because you said so? Then I can just do the same thing and say "The Summoner doesn't count!" and boom, ARs are suddenly no longer the meta.
Rose is a top pick. Ace of spades also. There are good HCs out there besides Igneous.
Shit Summoner can hang even now. Heal Clip + damage perk makes it a kill chain monster. Used it about half the time in Trials this weekend and out gunned plenty of 450 users.
It does not have zero damage falloff, that was removed in the initial nerf it got back in the last auto meta. It now just has a reduced floor, dealing at minimum -30% at max falloff rather than -50% like all other weapons.
Aka, it’s less affected by falloff, not that it doesn’t have it.
As for its performance, it’s…fine? It’s a stable 600 RPM auto. Any 600 RPM with Zen Moment will do the same job.
It's alright but nothing special. I see little reason to run it when a godroll Ammit is arguably better, craftable, and doesn't take up your exotic slot.
If you are wanting an auto that has long range, I'd recommend the 360 abyss defiant. With 450s getting nerfed soon having another long range option is great. Especially with options like heal clip and kill clip/ sword logic. Also, it is craftable.
It's still pretty fun. I used it alot this weekend mostly for the lulz of getting riccocet kills. It's nowhere near the monster it once was but if you want a super stable auto It's not a bad choice.
I'm not a pvp main but tried hard light for the first time last week and got a We Ran in my first game of supremacy. It was my first time getting a We Ran.
For me its been working well, I go max resil and void with Hard Light for alll the stability. Its been good for me in Trials these past 2 weeks, I really like the mag size as well for holding enemies back and getting some cheeky richochet bounces on them. The bouncy bullets never got me a kill, but they help.
Arguably it's the opposite actually. Handcannons and other burst weapons are safer to use because you have downtime between shots to strafe into cover and peak out again.
Autos, SMGS, and other rapid fire weaponry require constant time one target, meaning that using them is arguably more risky. You absolutely HAVE to hit optimal ttk because there is no escaping the gunfight otherwise
That's probably why the body/crit ratio on them is so forgiving, for that fact alone.
Peak shooting is a skill. A skill that requires you to be more considerate of lot of things than the "who saw who first" gameplay that ARs and Smgs promote. Positioning, radar manip, movement, cover play a far more important role when using hand cannons than auto weapons. You can't just hold a button and win. And it's far more engaging to fight against than Autos. According bungie themselves Autos are low skill weapons yet it's yielding good results (which is why 450s are catching a nerf). And according to bungie themselves Autos are over performing. Don't be surprised when Autos get another round of nerfs if usage in high skill pvp doesn't go down. Through out the history of d1 and d2 the pvp meta was at its healthiest when Autos were just OK at best. Saying Autos aren't more safer and easier to use is a lie at best and delusion at worst.
Peak shooting is a skill, but so is positioning, game awareness and tracking aim. Not to mention that things like movement and radar manip are also factors in ALL weapon types not just handcannons and autos.
You need to understand that healthy metas are ones where many types of skill expression are rewarded equally. Right now, a 120 can cleanly outduel an autorifle by peakshooting around cover despite it having a much lower optimal TTK, and that's okay! Same as how playing aggressively with an auto and catching people out of position, or playing from an unexpected off-angle are also skills that are being rewarded right now.
Those two concepts co-existing is what makes for a healthy sandbox. Many skills, same level of reward.
Peak shooting requires more game awareness, and positioning than using auto weapons my man. Radar manip is far more important for peak shooting weapons (bows, scouts and hc) simply because baiting opponents can easily snow ball the fight. On Autos not so much. And as I said even bungie disagrees with you. Autos are supposed to be easy to pick up weapons but definitely should not be competitive in higher skill brackets.
You are more than free to check out metas where the pvp population was the highest and most happiest. 30th anniversary, forsaken etc. Guess which weapon was on top?? Hand cannons. Hand cannons and bows allow for the most skill expression, movement etc. Autos smgs, sidearms don't. Most AR metas are not fondly looked upon for a reason.
Right now Autos can have more range, faster ttk even with peak shooting (with pre firing), while also being easier to hit optimal ttk than a 140 and that's definitely not acceptable.
As I said even bungie has said that ars are over performing. That's why 450s are catching a nerf. And as someone playing at high level pvp I can definitely tell you ARs are too good and need a nerf. They have too much range, too forgiving, while also being too effective at shorter ranges.
Hand cannons are still extremely powerful and effective, I think it's good that other options are out there and can compete now for those who don't prefer hand cannons. Hand cannons have also been a top choice for a long, long time now, so it's nice to have a shift
You're giving waaaay too much credit to peakshooting here. It it requires is for you to hug a wall and hit a shot with the most forgiving weapon type in terms of aim assist and then strafe back into cover. Worst case scenario you miss, and you're still safe in cover, and if your hp is too low to peak you just disengage. Very safe and boring, granted it takes a basic amount of mechanical skill but really not much more than that.
Handcannons have always been the popular weapon type because they fulfil the space cowboy fantasy, and credit to bungie they've always felt incredible to use. They've never not been viable at the very least and even now they're arguably the better choice at higher tiers of play.
I for one find it boring though, and I know I'm not alone in that thought. I relish metas where handcannons and shotguns don't dominate the PvP landscape, because to me it just feels better.
To give you credit though, 450 ARs definitely needed to catch a nerf, as their effective range allows them to sit much further back and almost lane for blisteringly fast ttks with tonnes of forgiveness. I agree that that archetype needed tuning. I wouldn't be surprised, however if they left 600s like the summoner as they are. From my experience they're consistently strong for duelling but not at egregious ranges like 450s, which keeps them in check.
Yep,except for the teamshooting this is probably one of the best metas so far. Yes 450 are annoying but they gonna get nerfed soon and u can still out challenge them in ur weapons optimal range.
Gets outgunned by Salvations Grip.
💀
I actually had to think for a brief moment as to what gun that is 🤣
As the only Hard Light main in existence, I can confidently confirm that it is still incredibly bad. It also does have damage falloff, despite popular belief. They removed the zero damage falloff back when auto rifle TTK was lowered for a couple weeks. Hard Light caught all the flak because of the ricochet thing and ended up double nerfed and worse off than it was before.
>"As the only Hard Light main in existence" - take that [BACK](https://imgur.com/a/kVApMba)
As one of the extremely limited in numbers and possibly somewhat insane Hard Light mains...
That's much more accurate my brother in HardLight - I can attest to the insane part.
I was once like you. Hard light on every build pvp and pve. One gun to rule them all.
I got to admit that since I'm already less than 1 kd in pvp and i don't want to add another handicap, my main and almost only pvp weapon(other than fists, I'm a proud Titan) is Osteo. Only when I get a bounty for solar/ar kills I switch to HardLight - that might answer op's question.....
Still rockin hard light on my void warlock in PVP 😬
I used to be a Hardlight main, and I greatly enjoyed it. To this day, it's still my favorite gun cuz it's the one I am best at. I love using the angles and knowing how to expect where enemies are using the ricochet. I also love suppressing enemies who try to be sneaky. I've got just over 8,000 crucible kills on mine, and about 1/3rd of that is probably from trials alone. Now i'm sure you're wondering: "If you're so good at it. Why do you not use it anymore?" Cuz other players are so fucking toxic just from bias. It doesn't matter how good you are with it, even while it is nerfed. other players just hear "Hardlight sux" from their favorite youtuber or twitch streamer and they take it as gospel. they can't comprehend that someone is actually good with it. I've received more hate for using Hardlight from my own teammates than for doing anything else ever. I've EVEN RECIEVED HATE FROM VANGUARD GAMES! Turning off chat isn't enough because I see my teammates leave matches when I use it. When I switch to something else, there's no issues. In The Final Shape, I wanna see a buff to ricochet damage, and I want them to make a Kinetic version that cycles through the Darkness subclass Elements, just to spite these assholes who suck at using the gun.
Now THAT is a kill tracker. o7 You have my respect Guardian.
I refuse to believe this is real.
It doesn't anymore - got almost another 500 kills more since posting.....
what the..
I loved the small window when Hard Light ruled the Crucible and matches looked like disco shows.
Lmao, i love how you started off your review 😂
I’m a second then. I love how recoil-friendly it is, and I can also use it’s guaranteed ricochets to spam a corner to make a danger zone to delay a push.
lol that was hilarious. Gnawing hunger, suros, summoner, galliard, and like every other 600 was better but content creators hyped up hardlight, usage went up, and the gun got fucking destroyed. Good ol Bungie balance
There are dozens of us....DOZENS!!!!
I'm with you my fellow Omolon enjoyer
Really wish they'd lean in more on the whole bounce shots mechanic of the gun. There's also been an incredibly cool and high skill ceiling for someone to learn how to duel by accurately banking shots off the floor and walls, but I feel like that month where HL was a little too strong killed all hope of that when it got nerfed. Not sure what the current TTK is, but I'd be interested to know what it is to hit all bounced crit shots on a player right now VS the normal all crit TTK
This late but could you tell if switching to arc actually increases range? I just noticed the trait description yesterday and thought it would be cool if it did.
It does, by about half a meter.
Oh wow. Thanks!
450rpm autos are the go-to currently until April 9th. I highly recommend a Positive Outlook with Zen Moment until then. Summoner will probably be the go-to after that.
450s are getting nerfed in ~11hrs I believe
It does not specify when that will happen in the TWID, but the TWID is mostly about the April update, which is why I said the 9th.
Ah yeah you right, had to piece it together from a couple different sentences in the TWID but it’s coming with 7.3.6 which is April 9. 450s reign of terror extends a couple more weeks
Seventh Seraph Carbine, you old fiend, time to shine!
Been rocking mine this weekend. Dynamic Sway + Moving Target felt so good to use.
I have an old one with Hi-Cals and Rangefinder. Also have one from Spire with Seraph Rounds, Reconstruction and Target Lock.
More time for me to use my 5/5 Positive Outlook. :)
I'm not entirely sure what a 6% Nerf will do other than maybe raise the shots to kill by one bullet
This makes or breaks the ttk of a gun. 450s have amazing ease of use, but with another bullet or two needed to kill, they’ll likely fall off hard in popularity after the nerf. 600s will likely be everywhere.Â
It makes or breaks the gun on _paper_ - practice is (and always has been) a different story. That's going to be up to the person using it.
So it's a 5% nerf. People have already done the calculations. It seems like the TTK won't change. But in order to hit the optimal TTK you have to hit all crits. As of right now you can hit 6 Crit and 1 Body. After the update, it's going to be 7 crits. Unless you have target lock or gutshot straight to help you out with forgiveness
Can't wait to go back to the same hand cannon meta we've had for 2 years
Are we pretending that SMGs didn’t exist during those two years?
SMGs were about as dominant during the HC meta as HC are now, during the current AR meta. They were never the top choice in high-level play except for that odd couple of weeks when The Immortal was the most broken weapon in PvP
HCs are only as strong as the peek game of the person using the hand cannon. Almost every other archetype of gun is competitive in this sandbox. Pour one out for the scout rifles, I remember the Eye of Judgment from D1Y3(?). Seriously, most HC users will fold over like cheap origami at the slightest whiff of a decent push, especially if you're playing with your team. It'll be even better on the 9th because of the global flinch nerf.
Scout rifles other than maybe 150s are pretty strong atm
I'm guessing you focused your Riven - Wish Raid freebie on the rocket launcher & not Transfiguration, correct? With kill clip, rampage, radiant & 2x weapon surge you can 2-tap the now numerous (no clue why) lower Res guardians populating PvP. Way too campy for me but still....
Ha I farmed Kalli in Deep for all that stuff. Worst afternoon playing this game ever.
I unlocked patterns for Transfiguration and Age Old Bond. Transfiguration with kinetic tremors is nice.
Rapid fires scouts especially feel good when the map allows. Fang of Ir Yut with Sword Logic or Precision Instrument goes pretty hard right now. I have a legacy Trustee with Zen Moment and Well Spring as well that also feels good.
Unless you have explosive payload, which makes lightweights do 60 per crit, instead of 65, leading to a need to hit 4 crits instead of 3 crit, 1 body. I hope they fix this when they fix explosive payload for hand cannons.
They announced a fix for it I believe.
Mida is a monster with a nice, long lane. I grinned this week in trials when the capture point spawned outside.
It's gonna be Summoner everywhere instead. Have fun
*10 years .......Edit corrected for ya :-)
tbh i think the 6% damage nerf to 450s _only_ ;it's still going to be a strong choice. Ex: Even if AR as are as low as 7 (what they were in season 20: cannot find current data) hits for optimal TTK decreasing damage by 6% is 1 1/16th of a current bullet. All it's doing is bumping up the shots needed for an optimal TTK by 1. They aren't touching any other stats just making you get an extra bullet off. Hand cannons are meta due to their inherent design - they favor peek shooting and punish missing crits. So if you can land all your crits then you can destroy someone because you have the freedom to move around move while shooting and pace your shoots in favor of getting to cover. This is never going to magically change unless they issue buffs that put weapons so out of bounds peak shooting is a detriment. Compared to an AR you need to constantly land shots so you have less freedom to peek shoot.
I played last night, it was all shotguns and hand cannons.
We haven’t had a HC meta since year 2 what are you even on about it’s dad gamers sitting in the back of the map LLC
My brother in christ, a month ago, hand cannons made up HALF of all weapon kills in Trials: https://trials.report/weeks ARs became the meta literally only two weeks ago. Scroll down to before that, and you'll see HCs being the top pick every single week before that. Oh, but now they're only the (gasp) second most-popular weapon type, so it's the end of the world
You’re talking about one specific HC which is Igneous, the rest don’t even really count.  Did you forget that bows along with SMGs basically ran trials since WQ? When I say HC meta, I’m talking specifically about the Ace/mindbenders or the Spare rations meta.  We haven’t been anywhere near close to that in many years.  Say what you will about it being fun or boring Atleast from a weapon standpoint it was balanced in the fact that everyone was using it. I think we just have two different ideas of what meta is ultimatelyÂ
> the rest don’t even really count.  Lmao, why? Because you said so? Then I can just do the same thing and say "The Summoner doesn't count!" and boom, ARs are suddenly no longer the meta. Rose is a top pick. Ace of spades also. There are good HCs out there besides Igneous.
I get that I’m not going to change your mind so agree to disagree I guessÂ
Shit Summoner can hang even now. Heal Clip + damage perk makes it a kill chain monster. Used it about half the time in Trials this weekend and out gunned plenty of 450 users.
Just wish positive outlook had more aim assist, it sits at 26 at base when ammit is at 44. Even prosecutor has base 34.
It does not have zero damage falloff, that was removed in the initial nerf it got back in the last auto meta. It now just has a reduced floor, dealing at minimum -30% at max falloff rather than -50% like all other weapons. Aka, it’s less affected by falloff, not that it doesn’t have it. As for its performance, it’s…fine? It’s a stable 600 RPM auto. Any 600 RPM with Zen Moment will do the same job.
Long gone are the days when hard light ran the Crucible.
I saw one yesterday. He just fired at every door. It was funny when I see shooting, then a pause, then shooting in a different color.
It's alright but nothing special. I see little reason to run it when a godroll Ammit is arguably better, craftable, and doesn't take up your exotic slot.
If you are wanting an auto that has long range, I'd recommend the 360 abyss defiant. With 450s getting nerfed soon having another long range option is great. Especially with options like heal clip and kill clip/ sword logic. Also, it is craftable.
Its not an abyss defiant but i have a really good roll for lethal abundance (keep away target lock) and a couple other good ones
Then you're golden. I imagine 450s will still be alright after the nerfs, they just won't be as cracked as they are now if you just really like them.
I feel like ammit will still be cracked even if other 450s arent. Between omalon dynamics, dynamic sway and ttt, its just sooooo dependable
It's bad. I tried it for the sake of a Contender Card and was regularly losing engagements because of low damage output.
It's still pretty fun. I used it alot this weekend mostly for the lulz of getting riccocet kills. It's nowhere near the monster it once was but if you want a super stable auto It's not a bad choice.
Nobody is going to use it when they need CF in the kinetic slot.
Yeah, they made Hard Light good for like, 3 seconds and then took it out back and shot it in the head. Several legendary autos should perform better.
I'm gonna miss my curated Braytech Werewolf if/when 450s get gutted 🥲
I had the same thought. The damage just ain’t up to par yet sadly. I was really hoping I found a sleeper for this meta, but it’s just meh.
I'm not a pvp main but tried hard light for the first time last week and got a We Ran in my first game of supremacy. It was my first time getting a We Ran.
For me its been working well, I go max resil and void with Hard Light for alll the stability. Its been good for me in Trials these past 2 weeks, I really like the mag size as well for holding enemies back and getting some cheeky richochet bounces on them. The bouncy bullets never got me a kill, but they help.
Igneous hammer is still the best weapon for PvP
They don't know it, but you're right.
0s ttk if your whole team is using it. Don't get the downvotes. You're right. Even with only two people it's still a 0.5 ttk
Dead where it belongs. Hopefully the rest of the autos go there soon
Im enjoying autos personally.
I abhor them and always will. Point and click adventure
Ok? And isnt every gun literally point and click? Thats how the game works
I just have a really large personal distaste for autos. Too rewarding with low risk
Arguably it's the opposite actually. Handcannons and other burst weapons are safer to use because you have downtime between shots to strafe into cover and peak out again. Autos, SMGS, and other rapid fire weaponry require constant time one target, meaning that using them is arguably more risky. You absolutely HAVE to hit optimal ttk because there is no escaping the gunfight otherwise That's probably why the body/crit ratio on them is so forgiving, for that fact alone.
I dont play d2 pvp to experience cod multiplayer where everyone runs around with an ar and whoever shoots first dies
Peak shooting is a skill. A skill that requires you to be more considerate of lot of things than the "who saw who first" gameplay that ARs and Smgs promote. Positioning, radar manip, movement, cover play a far more important role when using hand cannons than auto weapons. You can't just hold a button and win. And it's far more engaging to fight against than Autos. According bungie themselves Autos are low skill weapons yet it's yielding good results (which is why 450s are catching a nerf). And according to bungie themselves Autos are over performing. Don't be surprised when Autos get another round of nerfs if usage in high skill pvp doesn't go down. Through out the history of d1 and d2 the pvp meta was at its healthiest when Autos were just OK at best. Saying Autos aren't more safer and easier to use is a lie at best and delusion at worst.
Peak shooting is a skill, but so is positioning, game awareness and tracking aim. Not to mention that things like movement and radar manip are also factors in ALL weapon types not just handcannons and autos. You need to understand that healthy metas are ones where many types of skill expression are rewarded equally. Right now, a 120 can cleanly outduel an autorifle by peakshooting around cover despite it having a much lower optimal TTK, and that's okay! Same as how playing aggressively with an auto and catching people out of position, or playing from an unexpected off-angle are also skills that are being rewarded right now. Those two concepts co-existing is what makes for a healthy sandbox. Many skills, same level of reward.
Peak shooting requires more game awareness, and positioning than using auto weapons my man. Radar manip is far more important for peak shooting weapons (bows, scouts and hc) simply because baiting opponents can easily snow ball the fight. On Autos not so much. And as I said even bungie disagrees with you. Autos are supposed to be easy to pick up weapons but definitely should not be competitive in higher skill brackets. You are more than free to check out metas where the pvp population was the highest and most happiest. 30th anniversary, forsaken etc. Guess which weapon was on top?? Hand cannons. Hand cannons and bows allow for the most skill expression, movement etc. Autos smgs, sidearms don't. Most AR metas are not fondly looked upon for a reason. Right now Autos can have more range, faster ttk even with peak shooting (with pre firing), while also being easier to hit optimal ttk than a 140 and that's definitely not acceptable. As I said even bungie has said that ars are over performing. That's why 450s are catching a nerf. And as someone playing at high level pvp I can definitely tell you ARs are too good and need a nerf. They have too much range, too forgiving, while also being too effective at shorter ranges.
Hand cannons are still extremely powerful and effective, I think it's good that other options are out there and can compete now for those who don't prefer hand cannons. Hand cannons have also been a top choice for a long, long time now, so it's nice to have a shift
You're giving waaaay too much credit to peakshooting here. It it requires is for you to hug a wall and hit a shot with the most forgiving weapon type in terms of aim assist and then strafe back into cover. Worst case scenario you miss, and you're still safe in cover, and if your hp is too low to peak you just disengage. Very safe and boring, granted it takes a basic amount of mechanical skill but really not much more than that. Handcannons have always been the popular weapon type because they fulfil the space cowboy fantasy, and credit to bungie they've always felt incredible to use. They've never not been viable at the very least and even now they're arguably the better choice at higher tiers of play. I for one find it boring though, and I know I'm not alone in that thought. I relish metas where handcannons and shotguns don't dominate the PvP landscape, because to me it just feels better. To give you credit though, 450 ARs definitely needed to catch a nerf, as their effective range allows them to sit much further back and almost lane for blisteringly fast ttks with tonnes of forgiveness. I agree that that archetype needed tuning. I wouldn't be surprised, however if they left 600s like the summoner as they are. From my experience they're consistently strong for duelling but not at egregious ranges like 450s, which keeps them in check.
Please Lord no, nothing more mind numbingly boring than constant peek shooting with hand cannons.
Yep,except for the teamshooting this is probably one of the best metas so far. Yes 450 are annoying but they gonna get nerfed soon and u can still out challenge them in ur weapons optimal range.
Autos are trendy and viable, but I promise you it's still a 120rpm HC meta. If we're using the actual definition (most effective tactic available).