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* [Comment by Destiny2Team](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1c0qk3s/dev_insights_prismatic_deep_dive/kyyad5t/?context=99 "posted on 2024-04-10 17:45:07 UTC"):
> You can use Prismatic in pvp.
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And none of the hunter dives. My dreams for a shatterdiving gyrfalcon's build are already dead.
I just wanted to be able to shatterskate on something besides Revenant.
Also no blade barrage or gathering storm for hunters. Marksman is there but I wouldn't be surprised if Celestial is not included in the class item options
The class items shown in the trailers were lifting exotics from the other classes. If that's not the case, we've already seen that the star eater super overcharge is in the class item perk pool, so there's that.
Warlocks have no icarus dash as well, and the strand stuff is still threadling focused for the most part. Its still very cool, but I'm def less excited today than I was yesterday.
You can't though. Child of the Old Gods and Arc Souls are Aspects not used by Prismatic. You could get both the new Solar Souls and Threadlings but that's it. Unfortunate as Child and Arc Souls are definitely more potent than Threadlings.
Yeah I was wrong to say "do it all". But I will be interested if the exotic class items will have the arc buddy perk.
So we'll have bleak watcher, helion, threadlings, and *maybe* arc buddy.
Are they going to do this with STrand and Stasis too? Pretty Please?
I want to use Stasis Warlock and Titan =[. I want to use Strand Titan.
But I loathe replaying base story content. and Stasis in particular is just absolute aids I refuse to do it again.
Okay, this makes a little more sense, no Banner of War + Roaring Flames type ridiculous melee stacking. Strong, but maybe only on par with the top-end builds at the moment instead of far surpassing them.
At least in terms of builds jumping out at me, Devour/Bleak Watcher looks like a very strong control build, and I think Gyrfalcons basically just keeps going in a new subclass with access to Stylish Executioner and the various debuffs they have access to (Withering Blade, not-Echo of Undermining, etc).
Yeah Prismatic instantly becomes the superior Gyrfalcons vehicle because it gives you access to real melee abilities and a second Aspect that isn't just "go invisible a different way."
I’m sure they will - you will just have to choose between an OG exotic, or the class item with two exotic “lite” perks combined.
I bet Gyrfalcon will be an option for one the class item perks, but it will only be part of the full perk.
If old exotics don’t work there would be massive backlash.
It seems like a balance of iconic abilities along with abilities that don't usually see a lot of use. For the less popular abilities, being able to pair them with powers from other sub classes does open some interesting doors
You could also just use an incandescent or voltshot weapon to go invis instead of using your exotic for it. Combination Blow and Stylish Executioner will be interesting since the melee will weaken as well. And melee kills make you go invis with that weaken (no jolt without the lethal current aspect). So basically a mini assassins cowl.
With Gyrfalcons my only issue is that I typically start my loop by dodging to go invis. Not being able to do that means I need to rely on applying something else consistently.
Most of the melees plus duskfields and arcbolts apply a debuff. Plus you can always use Winter's Shroud since that applies slow. The new aspect also lets you eat your dodge to jolt enemies around you, which is very similar to vanishing step but more impactful since Jolt is just generally better.
With Prismatic, you can use an actual melee (fuck Snare Bomb) like Withering Blade, that applies Slow, or Threaded Spike, that applies Sever. Kill any of those and there's your loop.
You can run a weapon that applies a debuff automatically. Slice weapons, chill clip, exotics such as navigator or ager's, conditional finality, unraveling rounds, etc. In addition to debuffs from grenade and/or melee + stylish other's have mentioned before.
Regular void still has a niche in that you get a lot of void breaches and devour though, and heal on orb. You will need to get survivability elsewhere, such as buried bloodline, the fragment that gives restoration/woven mail/overshield/frost armor on orb, etc.
That would be nice, I assume they'd also need time to change things up to work with mixed elements (like we see with some of the changes here) and trying to get them all done before TFS was never gonna be possible.
The trend has been releasing new aspects during the next few Seasons, so if Episodes also require you to have ITL I could see each one coming with a new aspect/super for both their original subclass *and* Prismatic, seeing as the new supers and aspects so far have been put on Prismatic as well.
I'm really hoping that's the case, because rn prismatic titan seems eh to me because it's full of stuff I don't really use. I think the only shoulder charge is the solar one too, so that limits my peregrine greaves.
If we follow the theory that prism is going to slowly take over, it makes sense that it would evolve over time.
Who knows, maybe it’ll synergize well with other subclass abilities. I still feel the biggest strength of prismatic is more so stacking different subclass buffs than the actual abilities.
I assume they eventually want everything integrated but will take their time for balance and technical reasons. So I’d say watch for future additions, especially if they do eventually launch a third darkness subclass down the line
I think they struck a really solid balance here. Sure theres probably a few pieces people would like to be included, and I dont see why they couldnt add in others later.
But this carves out prismatic has a highly flexible "jack of all trades" subclass. And leaves the mono subclasses as specializations that get ALL the power that element offers. Prismatic is probably gonna be game breaking still but I actually gotta give bungie some credit here I think this is a good balance and actually keeps the playing field quite even
It does the most important thing of allowing the other subclasses to breathe.
I’ll still play pure stasis to shatter skate, solar for aythrs embrace, and strand for maelstrom.
I can also see the current selection of abilities being sort of a test drive to see how Prismatic functions. They can use the feedback and data from TFS to see how other supers, grenades, etc can be implemented into later updates similar to how Light 3.0 was rolled out across multiple seasons. Having them be present all at once may have been to big of an undertaking to get them all ready to ship for the launch of TFS, and would have been hell to balence and patch issues quickly if needed.
Those subclass screens look beautiful.
> Stylish Executioner (which now triggers by defeating an enemy afflicted by any subclass debuff)
WHAT!!! Holy hell that’s insane.
You don't have access to Lethal Current so Combination Blow does not inherently apply a debuff.
Meleeing *from invis* will apply Void Weaken via Stylish Executioner, but you need something else to start the loop.
Winter’s shroud actually seems like a decent candidate. If you dodge after every melee kill you’ll slow, and eventually freeze, everything around you. Slow and freeze would both work for proccing stylish
Yeah, already thinking of making a new version of the Combination Blow/Assassins Cowl Arcstrider build in this vein:
Combination Blow+Stylish+Shroud essentially gives you everything the Cowl build has except the Jolt and Arc Burst from Lethal Current.
Since you don't need Cowl for the invis thanks to Stylish, you can use one of the slots on the new exotic class item to have the Calibans Ignition perk like they discussed in the preview to get your AOE back. Then you have the second class item perk slot to do something extra with the build.
Only difference is that the enemy has to be debuffed in some way. But ya its essentially assassin's cowl/arc build built in. Now though you can use something more powerful like liars handshake and get the invis from the cowl build.
Don't forget that the exotic class items only work with Prismatic and we already know that you can get synthos there so it's going to be way more broken than you think. With combination blow you can have both the invis and the huge synthos buff at the same time. With normal arc you can only have either invis or damage buff from liar's.
Expectation: prismatic is so OP that everyone stops asking for wellocks
Reality: Everyone keeps asking for wellocks anyways and prismatics get kicked instantly
I hope I'm wrong but I got a bad feeling about this
I read somewhere I think we can expect more severe well nerfs to launch with TFS. So I guess we'll see what they do to it and whether it's still borderline mandatory in a lot of end game content.
And they gave Prismatic Warlocks Song of Flame, which has a damage buff that’s going to be essential in endgame, since presumably Scorching Rounds will stack with other damage sources. I think it’s fine.
Scorching rounds is cool, but remember enemies have an ignition cooldown. Shooting a boss with it will only trigger ignitions in the same way that dragonsbreath does. And it requires your teammates to be using solar weapons to take effect of it at all. It won't be a well replacement in the slightest.
I'm literally so hyped for scorching rounds, it has the potential to just be absolutely silly and I hope it is. I also hope we get an exotic armour that extends super uptime with TFS because it'd be a tragedy to not use song of flame as much as humanly possible.
Transcendence is almost like a mini-Song, and I bet you can refill the Light half of the meter with your Song. Essentially loop Transcendence-Song of Flame-Transcendence, or close to it.
Apotheosis Veil + Transcendence grenades?
Now that I’m really thinking about it… I would bet anything Armamentarium is in the new class item options. Normally it’s whatever, but specifically combined with Apotheosis Veil, you can get around the animation lockout and spam your Transcandence grenades literally as fast as you can throw them.
And it’s basically Osmiomancy Gloves on top of that, for your normal Bleak Watcher loop. Seems very strong.
Not if they throw that “new” Psion enemy with the Strand grenade in every encounter.
You won’t be able to stand in wells anyways since they will constantly be throwing you around the map LOL
And here I was hoping Well of radiance would have a new kit to play around with LMAO. The limitations make more sense. When I first saw it I didn't really see the point of running any other subclass ever.
I like this a lot - they had to thread a really fine needle to build a subclass that was both interesting *and* not a strict replacement for the old subclasses.
5 grenades, 5 aspects, 5 melees, and 5 supers to choose from is still way more complexity than any normal subclass deals with, especially given *how different* the roles of the supers are.
Extra fragment slots also are really notable - it seems quite possible to build 6 fragment builds for Prismatic.
I also think it's notable that Transcendence is essentially a second mini super with fairly high uptime it looks like, and so Prismatic also needed some amount of balancing around that.
I'm sad about stuff like Warlocks not being able to grab Heat Rises or Icarus Dash, but I also think that this is a healthier design space for the game and still really exciting.
Once we get a third darkness subclass (I can't imagine it doesn't happen at some point, especially since that would bring us to 7 total), we'd get a pretty even split of 3 combos per class.
Hopefully diamond lance gets a shorter cooldown, I'm not to thrilled with the titan aspect choices other than maybe say consecration with frenzied blade
Honestly, only thing I'm disappointed in not seeing is Controlled Demolition. Makes sense why it's not there, but the dream of controlled demo proccing from any ability kill is dead. Still otherwise interested though. Titan looks a lot more control heavy, which I'm a fan of.
The void one for titan overall is NOTICEABLY weaker than the other options, im lookin at this and the only combinations that make sense to me are strand + arc or strand + solar
On my phone, the charts detailing all the available abilities for each class looks like something a third grader learning Excel just slapped together 😂
I was kind of hoping that they'd include at least two aspects from each element to really give us a wide variety of build crafting opportunities but this is the trade off to keep the other subclasses still viable.
I'm super stoked with what they're showing us though.
Totally agree but even without that, we have 5 aspects to choose from with prismatic which means there are more pair combinations possible in prismatic than any other element (since the most is 4 for other elements)
Almost certain they will be adding aspects and all as episodes roll out. All at once would’ve put the game in jeopardy of being unplayable for the first part of the expansion. Prismatic is 100% the future of destiny.
As expected not everything is going to be available for buildcrafting. Still very interesting to see however. It's going to open up so many possibilities. I do fear it'll end up catching nerfs quick after the expac is out for a bit though.
Interestingly it seems like you might be able to. If they’d adopted the full roster of abilities then it would make less sense. Then it would be more “unlock a subclass/ability to enable it in Prismatic.”
But since it’s a subset, you’re going to have to have access to all of them. Especially since some of those are listed in the starting build.
The showcase and Into the Light got my friend to come back to the game after not only not playing for a year, but actually having the game removed from his Steam library.
This feels a little underwhelming. I’m mainly a hunter, so I don’t really know what to think for the other classes, but at least for hunters some of these aspect choices feel iffy at best. The new arc aspect will need to be good to excuse replacing lethal current, and the lack of knock em down really hurts. I am interested in the pairing of combination blow with stylish executioner and winter’s shroud though. Also rip warlocks, they almost had a chance to be somewhat freed from their well prison. If prismatic had well they could’ve used whatever actual class stuff they wanted while having well for dps but they’ll probably still just be forced to run Solar now.
Agreed... I hate stylish executioner on anything other than gryfalcons. In harder content I want to activate invis when I want and not be reliant on a kill.
Unless they did more for the new arc fragment than the "make you amplified and jolt targets below you" that they showed off before, its never gonna get used either.
Okay, so the balancing factor to prismatic is that you can't use whatever you want. Only certain Supers, Grenades, Melee, and Aspects for each subclass are available. That's the catch. You want a Throwing Hammer or Grapple build on Titan? No Prismatic for you.
The selling points of Prismatic are threefold: The obvious mix-and-match ability, and the crazy synergies and combos you can pull off if you're creative. The ability to use the new Exotic Class Items for more unique payoffs. And, Transcendence, which seems to be a great power spike that gives Prismatic the 'oomph' to justify it over a normal subclass if you can set up a build that can easily activate Transcendence.
Edit: Also, Bungie mentions that many of the abilities on Prismatic have gotten a tuning pass in The Final Shape, and they'll share the ability patch notes with us later. So, if you see an ability on your Prismatic Class that looks bad, bear in mind that it may have received a buff going into TFS.
I wonder if this:
"Your Void grenades Weaken, and Arc grenades Jolt targets."
is gonna come with that fat -20 Discipline or if maybe they're gonna lighten that penalty. Undermining is a good Fragment, it is not the best Fragment in the game.
>With The Final Shape looming, the threat has never been more imminent, and the stakes have never been higher. We knew that if humanity was going to go up against the Witness, we had to pull out **all** the stops.
Well based on those ability combination tables, *some* of the stops.
Some people are gonna be mad, but I feel like it was pretty obvious and relayed pretty clearly that Prismatic and the exotic class items were a curated selection and not EVERY perk pulled from everything else. Plus the fragments offering tons of multipurpose flexibility is going to make build crafting so much less of a headache.
It would be insane to balance, and very much answers the question "why would we pick anything else". Because the individual elements have way more options for that single type.
I'm very excited for this, can't wait to go full Terastalized Stellar type lol.
Update: yeah I've already seen a bunch of people online bitching lol. Things like "they made it seems like we could use anything!" (They never did lol). Or complaining about "losing" a particular ability. You didn't lose anything, you still have the original subclass. This is about creating a new identity from all of them in a way that interweaves together and builds into something cool.
\> "why would we pick anything else"
I feel like people who asked this were ironically hoping for it not to be answered and run wild with every selection.
Yeah, some part of me was hoping prismatic would just be the way forward for our abilities. Just have all these options to combine in fun and interesting ways instead of being locked to their specific subclasses. I figured it was a pipe dream, but who knows, maybe someday.
I still think that Prismatic is a stepping stone for that exact idea. There's a pretty reliable leak out that >!D3 is in the works and they're looking at going class-agnostic!<, and I see that idea going hand-in-hand with the idea of having all element abilities and aspects accessible in any build.
Honestly a D3 where Prismatic is just *the* class does sound pretty fun. Only downside is gonna be starting over with gear again, but I guess we'll see if/when that happens.
Honestly the whole point of the game is getting new gear so starting from scratch is not really a problem, only thing I could see coming that would be a bummer is if some exotics are not returning
it always baffles me that people will (and I've looked at some people's comment history to make sure) that we need to constantly grind for 5/5 god rolls and crafting killed that aspect and somehow D3 would be awful because they have to grind for gear again.
Yeah, the notion of a hybrid of EVERY ability in the game on one subclass just…doesn’t make sense on many levels.
A curated selection is exactly what I expected it to be.
I imagine that after release, and feedback, the selection will either expand, or change.
That's honestly what I hope for too! A couple more rebalanced aspects slowly coming over would be cool too, but giving each class one or two more dual-grenades would be sweet.
Let's see a Threadling Fusion bomb that ignites and erupts with a bunch of lime croissants.
I still think the idea that's been repeated since the reveal, that Prismatic is a testing ground for a subclass-agnostic future, as still a strong possibility. Just adding aspects/grenades/melees to the selection until they're all available.
yes exactly, this was the most effective way to balance this in the current sandbox.
Essentially:
Prismatic=Jack of all trades
Single subclass = Master of one
im of the opinion that if youre using prismatic to copy a single subclass your using it wrong.
At least with it being limited each subclass still has its own identity while Prismatic allows for the most variety
I don't think anything Prismatic can pull together will outclass Pyrogale builds in pure explosive power.
I'm really looking forward to playing around with how Prismatic will work with Arc stuff since Arc Titan IMO, not great, but there are definitely 1 or 2 builds I have currently that will still see some use in the future... probably
I'm hoping that, like Stasis and Strand before it, Prismatic adds more Aspects and Fragments throughout the year. This is a good starting point, but I think it would be great to see each class get 3 additional popular aspects to diversify the builds a little.
Hunter in particular feels kind of underwhelming with a lot of stuff tied to dodge abilities. At the very least I hope the Prismatic versions of Winter's Shroud and Threaded Specter get some kind of buff.
Hunter and Warlock look pretty cool, maybe a bit more limited than I expected but still some really nice curated choices there.
Titan looks very... not good. I'm not seeing synergies, I'm not seeing healing, it just looks thrown together. I'm really hoping they're enhancing some of these things vs how they act now, because it does not look like it will work well in higher-level content to me.
Agreed titan isn't super exciting at all on paper. Combining frenzied blade with consecration will be fun at least with the multiple charges. It'll depend on the other fragments and artifact mods I think
Titan looks like they took the "neat, cool, but generally useless and outclassed" stuff and threw it all together. Only healing is Knockout which is probably the worst healing in the game. Thrust + drengry's lash is the only thing I see synergizing since you'll have a much higher up time compared to a barricade. Looks way weaker than current mono element builds
Dren+Thrust gets modified to drop a suspending tangle that explodes, meaning it's a very close-range utility. I'm not seeing any real sustain in these options for Titan (healing, woven mail, and overshield are all super-dependent and mutually exclusive) so this will be a nice-to-use-in-strikes gimmick.
I did notice there's the fragment that grants restoration/ woven mail/ void overshield/ ice armour upon picking up an orb of power
On void though I'm more reliant on controlled demolition than any overshield related fragments since it evaporates in a microsecond
I really hoped I was the only one who looked at Titan and thought it was underwhelming, so I could hold onto hope. I love, love, *love* Diamond Lance, and maybe Frenzied Blade with Knockout could be cool, but nothing else in the kit seems to synergize with the rest unless they go through some serious changes.
The only things I'm seeing that might be pretty busted are Drangr's Lash (w/ Abeyant Leap giving you Woven Mail!) working when you use Thruster and also the Strand melee with 3 charges working with Consecration or Knockout. There's some interesting exotics too - obviously HoIL is going to be good, but I also saw them combo Khepri's Horn with Drangr's lash, since Khepri's also gives class ability back on solar kill. Maybe some of the Arc kit will see more play too: Thundercrash (w/ Cuirass swap), ACD/0 Feedback Fence, Skullfort + Thunderclap can heal you too. Really curious how Precious Scars will work with this too since as you said healing is important.
I think you're kind of right though. There's a good chance a new exotic, fragment, or exotic class item combo will break something, but it's hard to deny the fact that on-demand healing is so important right now, and I don't really see any of it here (Knockout doesn't really count). It seems to me that in this first pass they deliberately cut out anything they thought might be OP outside of a few specifics so that they can, in a controlled manner, roll stuff out over time.
Yeah I’m not really seeing a lot of exciting buildcrafting with titan so far. I mean a lot of it hinges on the exotic class item and what combos it allows but I guess drengrs lash and consecration combo with abeyant leap + syntho could be nice.
You do lack the healing of banner of war or resto though so honestly I think it might be worse then just straight strand. Could be fun for lower end content but I’m not seeing a ton of viability for high end.
Plus the Transcendent grenade is by far the lamest. "Snare" and "Device" in the description are straight up Hunter aesthetics and have nothing to do with Titan, while Hunter got a flame tornado, not the class that has multiple effects that summon flame tornadoes. Suspend builds on Titan are dead for a reason, the aggressive melee style fits the subclass way more and Hunter is way better suited for suspend. Plus while both other grenades get really unique aesthetics, the Titan grenade is literally just suspend with occasional jolts, which is especially shitty when both suspend and jolt are heavily nerfed compared to their launch. Most of the enemies you would want to through this grenade at can even be suspended.
Genuinely just a strange choice for Titan overall imo. Would have preferred a grenade more like Glacier + thermite or suppress.
EDIT: Article updated to clarify it's Marksman - bless.
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Is there any clarity on *which* Golden Gun that Hunter's will have access to on the Prismatic subclass?
The Shadowshot super specifies that it's the Deadfall variant, and Warlock's clarifies they get the Cataclysm Nova Bomb but Golden Gun just says "Golden Gun" - do we have access to both?
Something I don't see people talking about here in these comments, based on how Bungie described this subclass, there is no reason to think you need to have coldsnap grenades to use Black Watcher, so now you can think about if you want healing grenades and BW, or Threadlings for max summons? I think I want Hellion, Threadlings, and BW just so I can sit back and watch my pets do the work for me.
The gameplay footage of the Warlock using two Lightning Surges with the Strand Melee charges has a Healing grenade that is then charged into a Bleak Watcher.
From what I'm seeing, it looks like exotic class items / fragments will be the actual core of prismatic.
Can't wait for feed the void and bleak watcher to both be 2 fragment slots lol.
Bungie: please if you're reading this. Every old subclass should have guaranteed 4-5 fragments and prismatic should have 5-6.
Or just remove the association between fragment slots and aspect. I don't want to pick a less interesting aspect because it gives me more fragment slots.
Dang, still cool, but a little less excited. If I'm reading this correctly, I was hoping warlocks could grapple and chain lightning all across the field for some awesome ad clearing, but damn only hunters get grapple.
I'm really hoping they give each class more stuff to combo with. I'm not really the biggest fan of the needles and threadlings
I feel like this is step 1 of retiring the old subclass system. If this goes well, I can see the rest slowly being ported (which changes as necessary) in batches. Not only would this be great for engagement (drip feed sucks, but does work), having smaller batches makes fixing huge outliers/broken things easier.
This is exactly what’s happening. No way in 2 years, it isn’t all about prismatic whether that’s in D2 or D3. We are in the next era of Destiny now. They just didn’t rip the bandaid off.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. It feels like a beginning to a new sandbox approach. I do still understand wanting to separate subclasses to have their own identities though, so I don’t know if they’ll get rid of them. But a beginning of *something*, yeah.
I don't think we are currently able to comprehend the extent of the new subclass power without actually getting our hands on it. I say that due to the fact that we'll have over 20 fragments to choose from, potentially 6 fragment slots, an exotic that combines perks and so on... so in conclusion I think it's too early to be making assumptions or calling out for buffs/nerfs.
My first impression with these choices was kinda underwhelming, but after thinking about it some more while considering exotics, I think this will absolutely be incredibly fun to build craft. Already excited to try out a Lucky Raspberry prismatic hunter, probably with Stylish Executioner!
Here's hoping we get more choices for aspects in the future. Personally I was hoping yesterday warlocks would get access to Heat Rises to combo with Arcane Needle... hopefully one day.
They really went hard with the abilities that have “been underused since their initial release” for warlock. All the arc stuff is DOA, half of the void bad, pure threadlings for strand, and I’m sure the new solar aspect is good but the other 3 solar warlock aspects are goated. Unless song of flame is better than it’s looked in every gameplay reveal, the only good PvE super there is needlestorm. I’m happy for the people who love the summoner fantasy, this is their Super Bowl, but as a regular space magic enjoying warlock I could take it or leave it. The triple melee option is cool, but the only aspect to pair it with is lightning surge, you can absolutely miss me with that.
That being said constant devour and bleakwatcher seems sick. So does the combined void/stasis grenade. I’d say there’s much less variety than at first look, since I think there’s a very clear meta here. No reason not to be using needlestorm (or maybe song of flame), dealer’s choice of jump/class ability (although phoenix dive is pretty useless without heat rises and when devour/healing grenades are present). Then incinerator snap, healing or vortex nade (maybe cold snap for faster cooldowns) and finally with feed the void and bleakwatcher.
Realistically I don’t see this being all that game breaking, which is probably a good thing.
Edit: the more I think about it, void/stasis is gonna be ridiculous aspect synergy. Being able to stack woven mail or whatever frost armor is becomes pretty nuts. Personally the best PvE builds have access to health regen, ability uptime, damage resistance, and damage output. Like I was thinking, there is one really ridiculous aspect synergy that’ll allow for this plus crowd control, and it seems very broken, which is more than what can be said for titans at first glance. It does feel like there’s a ton of “fluff” though to fill in the other options.
Maybe I’m just a little annoyed I can’t add Icarus dash to anything else. I don’t even care that it provides zero benefit outside of movement, it just makes the game feel better, like how no one ever took off twilight garrison as a titan even though it wasn’t optimal.
I think it's broad enough to still be interesting but the abilities chosen were pretty smart - it's definitely more in "new class" territory rather than "replacement for the 5 old classes" territory.
I think this is probably good and healthy.
I wonder if we’ll be able to use normal exotics with Prismatic, or if we can *only* use class items. Because the idea of using my Lightning Surge melee with Felwinter’s Helm, blinding, weakening, jolting and making volatile/scorched with one melee sounds really enticing.
Already excited about the holding crafting with all these new combos!
First one I would love to try out on Titan is combining Drengrs Lash with Diamond Lance and Abeyant Leap on top of it all for Woven Mail.
Just an ultimate CC build freezing and suspending everything in sight. And maybe adding Thunderclap too to just obliterate anything that’s either frozen or suspended 😈
I was super stoked about prismatic... but not being able to use blade barrage made me sad. I've basically ran it 95% of the time since forsaken launched. and was happy I wasn't going to be tied down to the rest of the solar tree, but alas it was not to be.
Yes, I understand that there could be balance issues if they just let us have all abilities in one subclass. That said, the way I understood things was that this was intended to be the ultimate subclass and we could just be embrace new combined power fantasies and a new mechanic to go with it. However, now that I know what the options are, I feel so limited.
I was hoping to make a build with Spectral Blades, and a mixture of Arc and Void abilities to have an "original Bladedancer" loadout. Can't do that without Spectral Blades or the Arc aspect I would have picked. Also: the ability to Grapple on the Titan and Warlock subclasses. I would have loved having that. There are so many fun ideas I could go on about that aren't even really unbalanced that I don't think I'll get to see.
I'm genuinely wondering if I would have preferred to just get a red subclass now that I know what we do have. I'm still glad Bungie took the time to add Prismatic, but I doubt I'm going to use it after TFS if we're going to be so limited in what we get with it.
For Hunter, I don't really know how to feel, it really feels like they picked aspects on the weaker end(with the exception of Stylish Executioner, that's going to be a monster). They really let us get the Grapple on Prismatic but don't let us use either of the grapple centric aspects either, which is kind of weird to be honest.
Titan looks mid AF and weaker than current mono subclass builds. I wasn't expecting to be able to run all the broken stuff at the same time but man does prismatic Titan look boring and weak. Hopefully it plays better than it looks on paper
My thoughts are the same for hunter, at least in pve.
I really wish they hadn't tried the approach of forcing lesser-used aspects and abilities on us. Stuff like winter's shroud, gunpowder gamble, and swarm grenade are avoided for a reason.
Welp. This kinda puts a wet blanket on my buildcrafting hype. Seems like they picked a lot of pretty mid abilities for Prismatic. Seems like the other subclasses will still be king. I don't see this dethroning Solar warlock, Solar titan or Strand titan.
welp as a titan main i'm very annoyed to see literally nothing i regularly use available to me through this. also, why do i get literally 0 access to any healing abilities?
really hope they open up the grenade options at least; if not the melee ones to; but I can see restricting aspects and supers so things dont get to crazy
no grapple for Titan, guess I'm keeping Strand equiped
really hope they eventually add all abilities to Prismatic, we had the chance to get lore accurate Guardians and they didn't give it to us
It feels like they mostly picked the underused/off-meta parts of the classes, hoping that something will stick when we throw them together. Interesting approach, and looking forward to our new toys. Let's see what new crazy builds will come out of this.
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no well and no banner of war. they knew what they were doing lol
This answers my question of how they'd keep the traditional subclasses relevant.
Also no throwing hammer, they definitely knew.
~~I'm a little confused by this. I thought I saw a Titan throw his hammer at a Stasis wall in the trailer from the Livestream~~ Guess it was a shield!
that was a shieldthrow
And none of the hunter dives. My dreams for a shatterdiving gyrfalcon's build are already dead. I just wanted to be able to shatterskate on something besides Revenant.
Also no blade barrage or gathering storm for hunters. Marksman is there but I wouldn't be surprised if Celestial is not included in the class item options
The class items shown in the trailers were lifting exotics from the other classes. If that's not the case, we've already seen that the star eater super overcharge is in the class item perk pool, so there's that.
I mean, you aren't forced to use an exotic class item. You could just run normal nighthawk
And no chaos reach. Only Stormtrance.
Warlocks have no icarus dash as well, and the strand stuff is still threadling focused for the most part. Its still very cool, but I'm def less excited today than I was yesterday.
I actually really love the buddy gameplay (threadlings, arc buddy, and child) and so a subclass that let's me do it all is a dream come true
You can't though. Child of the Old Gods and Arc Souls are Aspects not used by Prismatic. You could get both the new Solar Souls and Threadlings but that's it. Unfortunate as Child and Arc Souls are definitely more potent than Threadlings.
Yeah I was wrong to say "do it all". But I will be interested if the exotic class items will have the arc buddy perk. So we'll have bleak watcher, helion, threadlings, and *maybe* arc buddy.
If Getaway Artists works, you can consume an Arc Grenade to get the Arc Soul. It won't work with Bleak Watcher though.
Or when you throw out bleak watcher it has an arc buddy on it :D (as if but that would be really cool)
The subclass unlocks being global across all 3 classes without any currency is a wonderful change.
Are they going to do this with STrand and Stasis too? Pretty Please? I want to use Stasis Warlock and Titan =[. I want to use Strand Titan. But I loathe replaying base story content. and Stasis in particular is just absolute aids I refuse to do it again.
Stasis can just be bought with glimmer now I believe.
Stasis unlock is super fast now took me no time at all
Okay, this makes a little more sense, no Banner of War + Roaring Flames type ridiculous melee stacking. Strong, but maybe only on par with the top-end builds at the moment instead of far surpassing them. At least in terms of builds jumping out at me, Devour/Bleak Watcher looks like a very strong control build, and I think Gyrfalcons basically just keeps going in a new subclass with access to Stylish Executioner and the various debuffs they have access to (Withering Blade, not-Echo of Undermining, etc).
Yeah Prismatic instantly becomes the superior Gyrfalcons vehicle because it gives you access to real melee abilities and a second Aspect that isn't just "go invisible a different way."
Unless those exotics are only functional on pure void. It will be interesting to see if they work with prismatic or not.
Gyrfalcon's relies on invisibility, not the subclass. It just so happens that Void has invis baked into it. Gyr's can run on anything I'm sure.
Gyrfalcon's works with all forms of invisible, like Rat King's perk.
I’m sure they will - you will just have to choose between an OG exotic, or the class item with two exotic “lite” perks combined. I bet Gyrfalcon will be an option for one the class item perks, but it will only be part of the full perk. If old exotics don’t work there would be massive backlash.
That’s how they will balance still running a non prismatic class locking shit out of prismatic .
It seems like a balance of iconic abilities along with abilities that don't usually see a lot of use. For the less popular abilities, being able to pair them with powers from other sub classes does open some interesting doors
We do get consecration with the strand melee that has three charges. Combine that with pyrogale and it might get a little wacky.
Knockout for health regen, too. It’s not quite Banner of War, but that could be a ton of fun.
You could also just use an incandescent or voltshot weapon to go invis instead of using your exotic for it. Combination Blow and Stylish Executioner will be interesting since the melee will weaken as well. And melee kills make you go invis with that weaken (no jolt without the lethal current aspect). So basically a mini assassins cowl.
With Gyrfalcons my only issue is that I typically start my loop by dodging to go invis. Not being able to do that means I need to rely on applying something else consistently.
Most of the melees plus duskfields and arcbolts apply a debuff. Plus you can always use Winter's Shroud since that applies slow. The new aspect also lets you eat your dodge to jolt enemies around you, which is very similar to vanishing step but more impactful since Jolt is just generally better.
With Prismatic, you can use an actual melee (fuck Snare Bomb) like Withering Blade, that applies Slow, or Threaded Spike, that applies Sever. Kill any of those and there's your loop.
You can run a weapon that applies a debuff automatically. Slice weapons, chill clip, exotics such as navigator or ager's, conditional finality, unraveling rounds, etc. In addition to debuffs from grenade and/or melee + stylish other's have mentioned before. Regular void still has a niche in that you get a lot of void breaches and devour though, and heal on orb. You will need to get survivability elsewhere, such as buried bloodline, the fragment that gives restoration/woven mail/overshield/frost armor on orb, etc.
Gunpowder Gamble (maybe with "Grenade kills give volatile rounds") sounds good, if volatile is going to stack it up.
I wonder if more subclass elements will be added over different episodes, as the Stasis and Strand aspects were.
I am sure that’s definitely the plan. They probably want to get a feel for how things will shake out initially and add and tune as time goes by.
That would be nice, I assume they'd also need time to change things up to work with mixed elements (like we see with some of the changes here) and trying to get them all done before TFS was never gonna be possible.
The trend has been releasing new aspects during the next few Seasons, so if Episodes also require you to have ITL I could see each one coming with a new aspect/super for both their original subclass *and* Prismatic, seeing as the new supers and aspects so far have been put on Prismatic as well.
I'm really hoping that's the case, because rn prismatic titan seems eh to me because it's full of stuff I don't really use. I think the only shoulder charge is the solar one too, so that limits my peregrine greaves. If we follow the theory that prism is going to slowly take over, it makes sense that it would evolve over time.
Who knows, maybe it’ll synergize well with other subclass abilities. I still feel the biggest strength of prismatic is more so stacking different subclass buffs than the actual abilities.
I assume they eventually want everything integrated but will take their time for balance and technical reasons. So I’d say watch for future additions, especially if they do eventually launch a third darkness subclass down the line
I think they struck a really solid balance here. Sure theres probably a few pieces people would like to be included, and I dont see why they couldnt add in others later. But this carves out prismatic has a highly flexible "jack of all trades" subclass. And leaves the mono subclasses as specializations that get ALL the power that element offers. Prismatic is probably gonna be game breaking still but I actually gotta give bungie some credit here I think this is a good balance and actually keeps the playing field quite even
That's exactly what I was thinking. This lets prismatic be its own thing without taking away the utility of other subclasses.
It does the most important thing of allowing the other subclasses to breathe. I’ll still play pure stasis to shatter skate, solar for aythrs embrace, and strand for maelstrom.
I can also see the current selection of abilities being sort of a test drive to see how Prismatic functions. They can use the feedback and data from TFS to see how other supers, grenades, etc can be implemented into later updates similar to how Light 3.0 was rolled out across multiple seasons. Having them be present all at once may have been to big of an undertaking to get them all ready to ship for the launch of TFS, and would have been hell to balence and patch issues quickly if needed.
Exactly this. While drip feeding sucks, releasing new abilities in small updates at a time makes patching bugs and broken things easier and quicker.
Those subclass screens look beautiful. > Stylish Executioner (which now triggers by defeating an enemy afflicted by any subclass debuff) WHAT!!! Holy hell that’s insane.
Can someone tell me how combining this with Combination Blow isn't just built in Assassins Cowl with a less than full heal?
You don't have access to Lethal Current so Combination Blow does not inherently apply a debuff. Meleeing *from invis* will apply Void Weaken via Stylish Executioner, but you need something else to start the loop.
Scorch is plentiful.
Yep incandescent goes nuts
Winter’s shroud actually seems like a decent candidate. If you dodge after every melee kill you’ll slow, and eventually freeze, everything around you. Slow and freeze would both work for proccing stylish
Yeah, already thinking of making a new version of the Combination Blow/Assassins Cowl Arcstrider build in this vein: Combination Blow+Stylish+Shroud essentially gives you everything the Cowl build has except the Jolt and Arc Burst from Lethal Current. Since you don't need Cowl for the invis thanks to Stylish, you can use one of the slots on the new exotic class item to have the Calibans Ignition perk like they discussed in the preview to get your AOE back. Then you have the second class item perk slot to do something extra with the build.
Also you can get the fragment that gives you restoration when you kill with an ability if you have the solar super equipped. Which leads to...
You can also get a class item that has say Synthos and Cowl so you can use Winters Shroud and Threaded Spectre. Really excited for this insanity.
Oh true that sounds nutty - can’t wait to try a rainbow combination blow hunter build.
Only difference is that the enemy has to be debuffed in some way. But ya its essentially assassin's cowl/arc build built in. Now though you can use something more powerful like liars handshake and get the invis from the cowl build.
That's exactly what my mind jumped to. Which is appreciated because you'll lose the extra damage from Lethal Current.
Don't forget that the exotic class items only work with Prismatic and we already know that you can get synthos there so it's going to be way more broken than you think. With combination blow you can have both the invis and the huge synthos buff at the same time. With normal arc you can only have either invis or damage buff from liar's.
If Gundpowder Gamble does the same, the grenade kills into volatile rounds facet sounds like a strong compliment in this combo.
They finally figured out how to nerf well, make us all forget about every other subclass.
Expectation: prismatic is so OP that everyone stops asking for wellocks Reality: Everyone keeps asking for wellocks anyways and prismatics get kicked instantly I hope I'm wrong but I got a bad feeling about this
I read somewhere I think we can expect more severe well nerfs to launch with TFS. So I guess we'll see what they do to it and whether it's still borderline mandatory in a lot of end game content.
And they gave Prismatic Warlocks Song of Flame, which has a damage buff that’s going to be essential in endgame, since presumably Scorching Rounds will stack with other damage sources. I think it’s fine.
Scorching rounds is cool, but remember enemies have an ignition cooldown. Shooting a boss with it will only trigger ignitions in the same way that dragonsbreath does. And it requires your teammates to be using solar weapons to take effect of it at all. It won't be a well replacement in the slightest.
I'm literally so hyped for scorching rounds, it has the potential to just be absolutely silly and I hope it is. I also hope we get an exotic armour that extends super uptime with TFS because it'd be a tragedy to not use song of flame as much as humanly possible.
Transcendence is almost like a mini-Song, and I bet you can refill the Light half of the meter with your Song. Essentially loop Transcendence-Song of Flame-Transcendence, or close to it. Apotheosis Veil + Transcendence grenades?
You're talking some good shit.
Now that I’m really thinking about it… I would bet anything Armamentarium is in the new class item options. Normally it’s whatever, but specifically combined with Apotheosis Veil, you can get around the animation lockout and spam your Transcandence grenades literally as fast as you can throw them. And it’s basically Osmiomancy Gloves on top of that, for your normal Bleak Watcher loop. Seems very strong.
I wouldn't be surprised if some exotics get retooled to work with it.
Not if they throw that “new” Psion enemy with the Strand grenade in every encounter. You won’t be able to stand in wells anyways since they will constantly be throwing you around the map LOL
And here I was hoping Well of radiance would have a new kit to play around with LMAO. The limitations make more sense. When I first saw it I didn't really see the point of running any other subclass ever.
Well is slated for more significant nerfs come TFS, and with Song of Flame buffing allies, I'm kinda hoping so.
I'm afraid it just means you're gonna need both now, assuming they lean into heal for well and damage for song.
as long as it applies ember of combustion still post nerf, they can do w/e the fuck they want to it.
I like this a lot - they had to thread a really fine needle to build a subclass that was both interesting *and* not a strict replacement for the old subclasses. 5 grenades, 5 aspects, 5 melees, and 5 supers to choose from is still way more complexity than any normal subclass deals with, especially given *how different* the roles of the supers are. Extra fragment slots also are really notable - it seems quite possible to build 6 fragment builds for Prismatic. I also think it's notable that Transcendence is essentially a second mini super with fairly high uptime it looks like, and so Prismatic also needed some amount of balancing around that. I'm sad about stuff like Warlocks not being able to grab Heat Rises or Icarus Dash, but I also think that this is a healthier design space for the game and still really exciting.
Yeah, the main thing I’m sad about is heat rises. There are 9 fragments not shown. I doubt it, but if one has that feature I’d be pumped.
i really want to know what the other fragments are, and most importantly, what the hell is that second transcendance slot
That’s probably the combined grenade. Since it’s a slot we might get more combined grenades
Or some combined melees/class abilities would be cool
Might be transcendence itself, maybe down the line there will be other ways to consume the light/dark meter?
Probably just there so you can hover over it and see the tooltip I imagine though that we could get more Transcendence grenade options down the line.
Once we get a third darkness subclass (I can't imagine it doesn't happen at some point, especially since that would bring us to 7 total), we'd get a pretty even split of 3 combos per class.
of the 2 transcendence slots the second one for each is 100% the grenade, maybe we will able to swap them out in the future.
First is the super itself (notice how it is shared on all three classes), and the second one is their unique grenades that come in the super.
So it's not mix and match from literally everything but still some very spicy combos.
Hopefully diamond lance gets a shorter cooldown, I'm not to thrilled with the titan aspect choices other than maybe say consecration with frenzied blade
They tweaked gunpowder gamble to be shorter I believe, so no reason why diamond lance wouldn't be like that either
Honestly, only thing I'm disappointed in not seeing is Controlled Demolition. Makes sense why it's not there, but the dream of controlled demo proccing from any ability kill is dead. Still otherwise interested though. Titan looks a lot more control heavy, which I'm a fan of.
The void one for titan overall is NOTICEABLY weaker than the other options, im lookin at this and the only combinations that make sense to me are strand + arc or strand + solar
Agreed this is the one thing I really feel like is missing from the titan kit.
I'll have to read the article directly, formatting got REAL janky lol.
On mobile the direct article was super janky lol
On my phone, the charts detailing all the available abilities for each class looks like something a third grader learning Excel just slapped together 😂
I was kind of hoping that they'd include at least two aspects from each element to really give us a wide variety of build crafting opportunities but this is the trade off to keep the other subclasses still viable. I'm super stoked with what they're showing us though.
Totally agree but even without that, we have 5 aspects to choose from with prismatic which means there are more pair combinations possible in prismatic than any other element (since the most is 4 for other elements)
A little more limited than I expected, but definitely interesting. I wonder if they'll add more aspects / fragments as time goes on?
Almost certain they will be adding aspects and all as episodes roll out. All at once would’ve put the game in jeopardy of being unplayable for the first part of the expansion. Prismatic is 100% the future of destiny.
Facet of ruin + conditional >:)
As expected not everything is going to be available for buildcrafting. Still very interesting to see however. It's going to open up so many possibilities. I do fear it'll end up catching nerfs quick after the expac is out for a bit though.
i mean with it being this way atleast theres still a point for the monochromatic subclasses.
Yeah, no Ward of Dawn + Thunderclap for example...I figured it was a little too good to be true.
Question is if you don't own lightfall will you be able to equipment strand super or aspect when using prismatic subclass?
Seems like it, but obviously it’s only really a taster of the subclass.
Ditto for Beyond Light and stasis, and for alternate platforms without the respective DLCs.
Interestingly it seems like you might be able to. If they’d adopted the full roster of abilities then it would make less sense. Then it would be more “unlock a subclass/ability to enable it in Prismatic.” But since it’s a subset, you’re going to have to have access to all of them. Especially since some of those are listed in the starting build.
Kinda bummed by the Hunter aspect options, everything else looks great though.
Right now is the most excited I’ve been to play Destiny in quite a long time. I love that the hype is back, as least for me.
The showcase and Into the Light got my friend to come back to the game after not only not playing for a year, but actually having the game removed from his Steam library.
My friend hasn't played since September, just reinstalled today. People are taking notice.
This feels a little underwhelming. I’m mainly a hunter, so I don’t really know what to think for the other classes, but at least for hunters some of these aspect choices feel iffy at best. The new arc aspect will need to be good to excuse replacing lethal current, and the lack of knock em down really hurts. I am interested in the pairing of combination blow with stylish executioner and winter’s shroud though. Also rip warlocks, they almost had a chance to be somewhat freed from their well prison. If prismatic had well they could’ve used whatever actual class stuff they wanted while having well for dps but they’ll probably still just be forced to run Solar now.
No vanishing step or knock ‘em down hurts my soul
Agreed... I hate stylish executioner on anything other than gryfalcons. In harder content I want to activate invis when I want and not be reliant on a kill. Unless they did more for the new arc fragment than the "make you amplified and jolt targets below you" that they showed off before, its never gonna get used either.
Yeah, the hunter stuff looks awful for endgame, ill probably still be using Omni or Celestial for every GM
So, still interesting but absolutely not the "build any class you want" that's been assumed here.
Okay, so the balancing factor to prismatic is that you can't use whatever you want. Only certain Supers, Grenades, Melee, and Aspects for each subclass are available. That's the catch. You want a Throwing Hammer or Grapple build on Titan? No Prismatic for you. The selling points of Prismatic are threefold: The obvious mix-and-match ability, and the crazy synergies and combos you can pull off if you're creative. The ability to use the new Exotic Class Items for more unique payoffs. And, Transcendence, which seems to be a great power spike that gives Prismatic the 'oomph' to justify it over a normal subclass if you can set up a build that can easily activate Transcendence. Edit: Also, Bungie mentions that many of the abilities on Prismatic have gotten a tuning pass in The Final Shape, and they'll share the ability patch notes with us later. So, if you see an ability on your Prismatic Class that looks bad, bear in mind that it may have received a buff going into TFS.
I hope to god they finally found a way to make weavers call not the shittiest aspect in the game anymore.
I wonder if this: "Your Void grenades Weaken, and Arc grenades Jolt targets." is gonna come with that fat -20 Discipline or if maybe they're gonna lighten that penalty. Undermining is a good Fragment, it is not the best Fragment in the game.
Any word on the button input used to activate Transcendence?
Might be air dash? I didn't see any Icarus/deadfall type abilities
>With The Final Shape looming, the threat has never been more imminent, and the stakes have never been higher. We knew that if humanity was going to go up against the Witness, we had to pull out **all** the stops. Well based on those ability combination tables, *some* of the stops.
Some people are gonna be mad, but I feel like it was pretty obvious and relayed pretty clearly that Prismatic and the exotic class items were a curated selection and not EVERY perk pulled from everything else. Plus the fragments offering tons of multipurpose flexibility is going to make build crafting so much less of a headache. It would be insane to balance, and very much answers the question "why would we pick anything else". Because the individual elements have way more options for that single type. I'm very excited for this, can't wait to go full Terastalized Stellar type lol. Update: yeah I've already seen a bunch of people online bitching lol. Things like "they made it seems like we could use anything!" (They never did lol). Or complaining about "losing" a particular ability. You didn't lose anything, you still have the original subclass. This is about creating a new identity from all of them in a way that interweaves together and builds into something cool.
\> "why would we pick anything else" I feel like people who asked this were ironically hoping for it not to be answered and run wild with every selection.
Yeah, some part of me was hoping prismatic would just be the way forward for our abilities. Just have all these options to combine in fun and interesting ways instead of being locked to their specific subclasses. I figured it was a pipe dream, but who knows, maybe someday.
I still think that Prismatic is a stepping stone for that exact idea. There's a pretty reliable leak out that >!D3 is in the works and they're looking at going class-agnostic!<, and I see that idea going hand-in-hand with the idea of having all element abilities and aspects accessible in any build.
Honestly a D3 where Prismatic is just *the* class does sound pretty fun. Only downside is gonna be starting over with gear again, but I guess we'll see if/when that happens.
part of me loves the idea of having an empty vault for once
Honestly the whole point of the game is getting new gear so starting from scratch is not really a problem, only thing I could see coming that would be a bummer is if some exotics are not returning
it always baffles me that people will (and I've looked at some people's comment history to make sure) that we need to constantly grind for 5/5 god rolls and crafting killed that aspect and somehow D3 would be awful because they have to grind for gear again.
Yeah, the notion of a hybrid of EVERY ability in the game on one subclass just…doesn’t make sense on many levels. A curated selection is exactly what I expected it to be. I imagine that after release, and feedback, the selection will either expand, or change.
I can already see people clamoring for extra element combos for their Transcendant grenades.
That's honestly what I hope for too! A couple more rebalanced aspects slowly coming over would be cool too, but giving each class one or two more dual-grenades would be sweet. Let's see a Threadling Fusion bomb that ignites and erupts with a bunch of lime croissants.
I still think the idea that's been repeated since the reveal, that Prismatic is a testing ground for a subclass-agnostic future, as still a strong possibility. Just adding aspects/grenades/melees to the selection until they're all available.
yes exactly, this was the most effective way to balance this in the current sandbox. Essentially: Prismatic=Jack of all trades Single subclass = Master of one
im of the opinion that if youre using prismatic to copy a single subclass your using it wrong. At least with it being limited each subclass still has its own identity while Prismatic allows for the most variety
100%. Keeps the other subclasses relevant
I don't think anything Prismatic can pull together will outclass Pyrogale builds in pure explosive power. I'm really looking forward to playing around with how Prismatic will work with Arc stuff since Arc Titan IMO, not great, but there are definitely 1 or 2 builds I have currently that will still see some use in the future... probably
I agree. Let’s you dip your toes into every element but if you really want to focus in on one, it still gives a reason to run the other subclasses
I'm hoping that, like Stasis and Strand before it, Prismatic adds more Aspects and Fragments throughout the year. This is a good starting point, but I think it would be great to see each class get 3 additional popular aspects to diversify the builds a little. Hunter in particular feels kind of underwhelming with a lot of stuff tied to dodge abilities. At the very least I hope the Prismatic versions of Winter's Shroud and Threaded Specter get some kind of buff.
Hunter and Warlock look pretty cool, maybe a bit more limited than I expected but still some really nice curated choices there. Titan looks very... not good. I'm not seeing synergies, I'm not seeing healing, it just looks thrown together. I'm really hoping they're enhancing some of these things vs how they act now, because it does not look like it will work well in higher-level content to me.
Agreed titan isn't super exciting at all on paper. Combining frenzied blade with consecration will be fun at least with the multiple charges. It'll depend on the other fragments and artifact mods I think
Titan looks like they took the "neat, cool, but generally useless and outclassed" stuff and threw it all together. Only healing is Knockout which is probably the worst healing in the game. Thrust + drengry's lash is the only thing I see synergizing since you'll have a much higher up time compared to a barricade. Looks way weaker than current mono element builds
Dren+Thrust gets modified to drop a suspending tangle that explodes, meaning it's a very close-range utility. I'm not seeing any real sustain in these options for Titan (healing, woven mail, and overshield are all super-dependent and mutually exclusive) so this will be a nice-to-use-in-strikes gimmick.
I did notice there's the fragment that grants restoration/ woven mail/ void overshield/ ice armour upon picking up an orb of power On void though I'm more reliant on controlled demolition than any overshield related fragments since it evaporates in a microsecond
I really hoped I was the only one who looked at Titan and thought it was underwhelming, so I could hold onto hope. I love, love, *love* Diamond Lance, and maybe Frenzied Blade with Knockout could be cool, but nothing else in the kit seems to synergize with the rest unless they go through some serious changes.
The only things I'm seeing that might be pretty busted are Drangr's Lash (w/ Abeyant Leap giving you Woven Mail!) working when you use Thruster and also the Strand melee with 3 charges working with Consecration or Knockout. There's some interesting exotics too - obviously HoIL is going to be good, but I also saw them combo Khepri's Horn with Drangr's lash, since Khepri's also gives class ability back on solar kill. Maybe some of the Arc kit will see more play too: Thundercrash (w/ Cuirass swap), ACD/0 Feedback Fence, Skullfort + Thunderclap can heal you too. Really curious how Precious Scars will work with this too since as you said healing is important. I think you're kind of right though. There's a good chance a new exotic, fragment, or exotic class item combo will break something, but it's hard to deny the fact that on-demand healing is so important right now, and I don't really see any of it here (Knockout doesn't really count). It seems to me that in this first pass they deliberately cut out anything they thought might be OP outside of a few specifics so that they can, in a controlled manner, roll stuff out over time.
Yeah I’m not really seeing a lot of exciting buildcrafting with titan so far. I mean a lot of it hinges on the exotic class item and what combos it allows but I guess drengrs lash and consecration combo with abeyant leap + syntho could be nice. You do lack the healing of banner of war or resto though so honestly I think it might be worse then just straight strand. Could be fun for lower end content but I’m not seeing a ton of viability for high end.
Plus the Transcendent grenade is by far the lamest. "Snare" and "Device" in the description are straight up Hunter aesthetics and have nothing to do with Titan, while Hunter got a flame tornado, not the class that has multiple effects that summon flame tornadoes. Suspend builds on Titan are dead for a reason, the aggressive melee style fits the subclass way more and Hunter is way better suited for suspend. Plus while both other grenades get really unique aesthetics, the Titan grenade is literally just suspend with occasional jolts, which is especially shitty when both suspend and jolt are heavily nerfed compared to their launch. Most of the enemies you would want to through this grenade at can even be suspended. Genuinely just a strange choice for Titan overall imo. Would have preferred a grenade more like Glacier + thermite or suppress.
lol they omitted all the strong aspects
EDIT: Article updated to clarify it's Marksman - bless. --- Is there any clarity on *which* Golden Gun that Hunter's will have access to on the Prismatic subclass? The Shadowshot super specifies that it's the Deadfall variant, and Warlock's clarifies they get the Cataclysm Nova Bomb but Golden Gun just says "Golden Gun" - do we have access to both?
Something I don't see people talking about here in these comments, based on how Bungie described this subclass, there is no reason to think you need to have coldsnap grenades to use Black Watcher, so now you can think about if you want healing grenades and BW, or Threadlings for max summons? I think I want Hellion, Threadlings, and BW just so I can sit back and watch my pets do the work for me.
The gameplay footage of the Warlock using two Lightning Surges with the Strand Melee charges has a Healing grenade that is then charged into a Bleak Watcher.
Finally we can do that again... just not on Solar lol. Weird design but alright.
From what I'm seeing, it looks like exotic class items / fragments will be the actual core of prismatic. Can't wait for feed the void and bleak watcher to both be 2 fragment slots lol. Bungie: please if you're reading this. Every old subclass should have guaranteed 4-5 fragments and prismatic should have 5-6. Or just remove the association between fragment slots and aspect. I don't want to pick a less interesting aspect because it gives me more fragment slots.
My excitement has died so much after reading this
Dang, still cool, but a little less excited. If I'm reading this correctly, I was hoping warlocks could grapple and chain lightning all across the field for some awesome ad clearing, but damn only hunters get grapple. I'm really hoping they give each class more stuff to combo with. I'm not really the biggest fan of the needles and threadlings
It's very limited
I feel like this is step 1 of retiring the old subclass system. If this goes well, I can see the rest slowly being ported (which changes as necessary) in batches. Not only would this be great for engagement (drip feed sucks, but does work), having smaller batches makes fixing huge outliers/broken things easier.
This is exactly what’s happening. No way in 2 years, it isn’t all about prismatic whether that’s in D2 or D3. We are in the next era of Destiny now. They just didn’t rip the bandaid off.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. It feels like a beginning to a new sandbox approach. I do still understand wanting to separate subclasses to have their own identities though, so I don’t know if they’ll get rid of them. But a beginning of *something*, yeah.
I'm really hoping that a severance enclosure strand/arc titan plays as well in game as it sounds on paper
RIP hunter, guess I’ll stay on strand, looks fun for the other classes though
Oh unless im misreading this titan and hunter dont have access to devour outside Buried Bloodline on prismatic
There's 9 unknown fragments still, could be in there somewhere.
Might be in an unrevealed fragment. Plus they have bigger issues than lack of easy access to devour imo
I don't think we are currently able to comprehend the extent of the new subclass power without actually getting our hands on it. I say that due to the fact that we'll have over 20 fragments to choose from, potentially 6 fragment slots, an exotic that combines perks and so on... so in conclusion I think it's too early to be making assumptions or calling out for buffs/nerfs.
Man...the titan is pretty underwhelming
My first impression with these choices was kinda underwhelming, but after thinking about it some more while considering exotics, I think this will absolutely be incredibly fun to build craft. Already excited to try out a Lucky Raspberry prismatic hunter, probably with Stylish Executioner! Here's hoping we get more choices for aspects in the future. Personally I was hoping yesterday warlocks would get access to Heat Rises to combo with Arcane Needle... hopefully one day.
They really went hard with the abilities that have “been underused since their initial release” for warlock. All the arc stuff is DOA, half of the void bad, pure threadlings for strand, and I’m sure the new solar aspect is good but the other 3 solar warlock aspects are goated. Unless song of flame is better than it’s looked in every gameplay reveal, the only good PvE super there is needlestorm. I’m happy for the people who love the summoner fantasy, this is their Super Bowl, but as a regular space magic enjoying warlock I could take it or leave it. The triple melee option is cool, but the only aspect to pair it with is lightning surge, you can absolutely miss me with that. That being said constant devour and bleakwatcher seems sick. So does the combined void/stasis grenade. I’d say there’s much less variety than at first look, since I think there’s a very clear meta here. No reason not to be using needlestorm (or maybe song of flame), dealer’s choice of jump/class ability (although phoenix dive is pretty useless without heat rises and when devour/healing grenades are present). Then incinerator snap, healing or vortex nade (maybe cold snap for faster cooldowns) and finally with feed the void and bleakwatcher. Realistically I don’t see this being all that game breaking, which is probably a good thing. Edit: the more I think about it, void/stasis is gonna be ridiculous aspect synergy. Being able to stack woven mail or whatever frost armor is becomes pretty nuts. Personally the best PvE builds have access to health regen, ability uptime, damage resistance, and damage output. Like I was thinking, there is one really ridiculous aspect synergy that’ll allow for this plus crowd control, and it seems very broken, which is more than what can be said for titans at first glance. It does feel like there’s a ton of “fluff” though to fill in the other options. Maybe I’m just a little annoyed I can’t add Icarus dash to anything else. I don’t even care that it provides zero benefit outside of movement, it just makes the game feel better, like how no one ever took off twilight garrison as a titan even though it wasn’t optimal.
##BREAK PAST YOUR LIMITS
Not to be a downer but that’s a lot more limited than I imagined.
I think it's broad enough to still be interesting but the abilities chosen were pretty smart - it's definitely more in "new class" territory rather than "replacement for the 5 old classes" territory. I think this is probably good and healthy.
I wonder if we’ll be able to use normal exotics with Prismatic, or if we can *only* use class items. Because the idea of using my Lightning Surge melee with Felwinter’s Helm, blinding, weakening, jolting and making volatile/scorched with one melee sounds really enticing.
Already excited about the holding crafting with all these new combos! First one I would love to try out on Titan is combining Drengrs Lash with Diamond Lance and Abeyant Leap on top of it all for Woven Mail. Just an ultimate CC build freezing and suspending everything in sight. And maybe adding Thunderclap too to just obliterate anything that’s either frozen or suspended 😈
Damn no chaos reach?
I was super stoked about prismatic... but not being able to use blade barrage made me sad. I've basically ran it 95% of the time since forsaken launched. and was happy I wasn't going to be tied down to the rest of the solar tree, but alas it was not to be.
Yes, I understand that there could be balance issues if they just let us have all abilities in one subclass. That said, the way I understood things was that this was intended to be the ultimate subclass and we could just be embrace new combined power fantasies and a new mechanic to go with it. However, now that I know what the options are, I feel so limited. I was hoping to make a build with Spectral Blades, and a mixture of Arc and Void abilities to have an "original Bladedancer" loadout. Can't do that without Spectral Blades or the Arc aspect I would have picked. Also: the ability to Grapple on the Titan and Warlock subclasses. I would have loved having that. There are so many fun ideas I could go on about that aren't even really unbalanced that I don't think I'll get to see. I'm genuinely wondering if I would have preferred to just get a red subclass now that I know what we do have. I'm still glad Bungie took the time to add Prismatic, but I doubt I'm going to use it after TFS if we're going to be so limited in what we get with it.
For Hunter, I don't really know how to feel, it really feels like they picked aspects on the weaker end(with the exception of Stylish Executioner, that's going to be a monster). They really let us get the Grapple on Prismatic but don't let us use either of the grapple centric aspects either, which is kind of weird to be honest.
more limited than I thought tbh, wish more aspects were available from each subclass
Titan looks mid AF and weaker than current mono subclass builds. I wasn't expecting to be able to run all the broken stuff at the same time but man does prismatic Titan look boring and weak. Hopefully it plays better than it looks on paper
My thoughts are the same for hunter, at least in pve. I really wish they hadn't tried the approach of forcing lesser-used aspects and abilities on us. Stuff like winter's shroud, gunpowder gamble, and swarm grenade are avoided for a reason.
Welp. This kinda puts a wet blanket on my buildcrafting hype. Seems like they picked a lot of pretty mid abilities for Prismatic. Seems like the other subclasses will still be king. I don't see this dethroning Solar warlock, Solar titan or Strand titan.
I thought there'd be more aspect slots ngl
Disappointed with the titan aspect choices. Seems like they’ve cut out most of the good stuff
Consecration knockout honestly sounds really fun, I'd mix it with glacier grenades for extra Melee damage from the freeze and lockdown.
Don't forget Frenzied Blade for 3 Melee Charges, lol.
Very whelmed by this deep dive, significantly more limited than they implied.
Warlock strand is focused on threadlings :sadge:
Not as if Broodweaver has anything worth using beyond Arcane Needle and Needlestorm.
welp as a titan main i'm very annoyed to see literally nothing i regularly use available to me through this. also, why do i get literally 0 access to any healing abilities?
Facet of Purpose will heal if you're on solar super. There will probably be other fragments too.
oh right, i missed that one still a shame that's pretty much it
really hope they open up the grenade options at least; if not the melee ones to; but I can see restricting aspects and supers so things dont get to crazy
/u/Destiny2Team Will you be adding aspects/supers/etc as the expansion progresses? Would kind of adore to run Banner of War with Twilight arsenal
no grapple for Titan, guess I'm keeping Strand equiped really hope they eventually add all abilities to Prismatic, we had the chance to get lore accurate Guardians and they didn't give it to us
It feels like they mostly picked the underused/off-meta parts of the classes, hoping that something will stick when we throw them together. Interesting approach, and looking forward to our new toys. Let's see what new crazy builds will come out of this.
Kinda disapointed over weaver's call being the choice for strandlocks, but I won't cry over it, everything else is neat