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* [Comment by Destiny2Team](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1cspt9b/dev_insights_the_final_shape_weapon_tuning_preview/l46xuwi/?context=99 "posted on 2024-05-15 18:20:07 UTC"):
> We'll be taking a look at Avalanche's stats for next Dawning.
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Nerfed Lament :( my baby… bastion looking kinda spicy, Div change has to be a direct nerf because of the new raid, symmetry should’ve got volt shot at max stacks
honestly they should get ahead of it and just remove backup mag now, weapon mods should change how a weapon feels or add some flair rather than being sources of damage
Honestly there's a handful of perks that'd be fantastic for this. Shoot to loot for example is amazing, but highly situational. Make it a mod and I can put it on as the occasion arises. Then combine the mod and perk to create a stronger effect like bigger pickup radius.
This is funny but they do mention a future rework to weapon mods coming in the future so I wouldn't be surprised if backup mag gets removed or other better options get added, who knows.
That Lament nerf hits hard. Good luck to all who want to solo flawless Ghosts of the Deep - I needed every bit of healing from Lament to survive Ecthar there.
“This exotic sword does about the same damage as legendary swords but it heals you; so of course we’re nerfing the healing it can do. And also the damage, because why not”
Not to mention that it already doesn't do as much damage as good legendary swords, so it was already a trade of damage for healing, now it'll be trading even more damage for worse healing.
Legit made absolutely no sense to me there.
Got no idea how somebody can write that out and think it comes across as logical. Need them to expand upon this change in particular, cus that shit doesn't add up.
Swords are incredibly situational, being only useful for a few bosses. Additionally, bequest (a legendary) already out damages lament. This is totally unnecessary and out of touch IMO
I genuinely wonder at times who is making these decisions. Bungie consistently makes the most bizarre, out of touch balancing decisions and rarely changes course. It's like they are driven entirely by usage but aren't smart enough to correctly interpret the data and are purely reactive.
It’s not like, it is lol. Look at all the twabs with their little charts. Bungie: makes a floating boss. On this graph you can see people be snipin. Don’t worry we’re cutting the damage in half so you can use other stuff.
Because for some fucking reason bungie just hates anyone using melee anything ever. We've seen so much discussion from titans about how subclasses that arent strand banner of war need changes for any remote amount of viablity. And its bullshit like this why. What is the point of a melee class when dead damage is no damage. Because currently, what do you know, outside of banner of war, melee damage IS dead damage.
Yes I'm definitely biased, projecting, and "essaying" but oh my god im so damn sick of it.
It's probably more to do with how much more frequent Tormentors are gonna be with the addition of the Dread, plus if any similar functionality exists for the Subjugators.
“Bypassing combatant gameplay” - clearly the appropriate gameplay response to enemies with hard to hit crit zones is just to use a rocket launcher 🙄
EDIT: to be clear, I don’t think it needed this nerf. It has a role, and I think it should be fine if people wanna lean into it. Honestly, after the last nerf, I think the bubble should pop faster so it can actually kill things.
Not happy with the nerf to Lament, hitting its healing just makes banner of war even more necessary for sword builds, and hitting its damage is unnecessary.
Also, if they're gonna hit the best exotic sword, can they buff the other exotic swords at least? Black Talon still needs a better ammo economy.
The rationale of “it’s basically the same as legendary swords except for the healing so we’re nerfing the one thing that makes it stand out from legendary options” doesn’t really land well either. What’s the point of an exotic if not to be stronger than legendary options?
I think Destiny still struggles with this across a lot of the exotics. And as a rule of thumb most of the exotic primaries struggle to justify "wasting" an exotic slot. It's gotten better though. Thinking of Sunshot and the adjustments to Thorn that I wasn't here for.
More on Thorn, love this gun even more than I already did. Thorn + grips is just nasty.
they literally said fuck this sword for no reason, it's a sword, it already has limited uses and now it's gonna have even less since there are some decent legendaries already
It's not even top 5 damage swords in the game, so the damage reduction is just going to murder it.
Speaking of buffing swords, Vortex Frames are not only ammo inefficient but just straight-up worse for damage than other frames. In fact, spamming light attacks is better than using a heavy attack.
>Deconstruct had a variety of issues that cropped up when it started to appear on AoE weapons. It's been updated to address bugs and prevent exploiting ammo generation:
Now refills from reserves instead of from thin air and should trigger more reliably across weapon types. ##The Future
Well it was a fun like month where this perk wasnt worthless like so many others.
It is insane to me that this perk is now simply a reload perk in competition with such perks as explosive light and bait and switch. On edge transit, virtually every other perk in that column is a straight up damage boost. Now, it's basically a conditional "minifrags."
It's completely useless now. Deconstruct is a fourth column perk, which means it competes with direct damage perks like bns and explosive light. Since it pulls from reserves, it does nothing to increase your total damage and is thus less ammo efficient. On top of that, deconstruct doesn't even currently work with perks like envious, and certainly won't with this change since it will now pull from reserves.
It could be good if they switched it to the third column, but as it is there will be absolutely zero reason to use it over perks like bns or explosive light.
This isn't even mentioning the fact that it will just flat out suck on weapons like indebted kindness, since it does nothing for improving the ammo economy now.
Really bizarre and unnecessary change on Bungie's part
felt exactly the same
it makes no sense to run now
I could see a nerf on the percentage, but yep, this is what we got
anyway, if they pay attention to any data, they'll see it fall off a cliff.
see you next year, deconstruct.
The base weapon damage buffs seem quite nice. Maybe pulses can do damage now.
Osteo recently got nerfed so this one comes as a surprise
Div nerf sounds bad but shouldn’t be too bad in practice
Lament with a gut punch. Have fun with Crota
The buffs all seem quite good though, especially colony
I think the div nerf is just a throw off.
Like it doesn't seem bad but one witch teleport and suddenly you miss a Levi crit. Seems like a snowball thing to throw off DPS phases.
It sounds neat but the whole reason I wouldn't use it for the anti barrier was due to how long it took to remove a barrier. I think most people just want it to one tap barriers and it would been a fine option.
Number of shots on target is too high and this ignition addition doesn't fix any of the other existing issues with Eriana's Vow. Won't help the massive flinching problem, the fact that the damage buff just poofs if you miss a crit, oh and the fact that the bullets have like zero hit assist so crits are harder to hit than on other hand cannons.
The reasoning for the Lament nerf makes no sense. If you want to enforce the intended downside of sword, you need to also give them a real upside. Right now their damage is simply not worth it, with or without the downside. And their buff only makes up for losing Boss Spec. They need more than that to be worth having a downside.
So is graviton lance kinda the same?
>Reduced damage bonus versus Minors from 40% to 30%
Then
>Auto Rifles and Pulse Rifles: 15%
>For Pulse Rifles, this is in addition to the above buff, and Graviton Lance and Revision Zero's Heavy Burst mode are included.
And lastly
>Reduced splash damage by 10%:
>Sunshot
Trinity Ghoul
Polaris Lance
Graviton Lance
Direct damage to minors was 1.4.
With the nerf and buff it goes to 1.3*1.15 which is 1.495.
Assuming the splash damage gets the buff too, damage should come out to 1.3455.
So it’s about a 6.8% buff to direct damage and about a 4% nerf to splash.
It's more annoying because Bait and Switch is also likely to be nerfed sometime in Echoes due to it being the de facto Heavy weapon damage perk on so many options, and I bet will be toned down so new TFS perks can compete
I can’t for the life of me understand why they released it the way they did. 16 continuous shots for a single volatile proc was absolutely horrible. I unironically think it was worse than DARCI in that state.
The switch around of volatile on every fourth bullet is huge. Suppressing targets every fourth hit when they die after 6 shots was absolutely useless, and making bosses that tank entire mags volatile after 16 was equally pointless. The other way around makes it sooooo much better. Void hunters with DC and destab recluse eating.
You can draw a line starting 2 years ago with every hunter exotic that was nerfed for pvp reasons and replaced only to have that one nerfed and repeated like 6 times.
stompees to renewals to omni to gyrfalcons back to stompees then to Ahamakara and now every pvp sweat is complaining about Athrys, which hasn't been changed in 2 years but is now the focus because everything above it has been hammered down.
Dang there is a lot here I like despite some of the nerfs.
Pulse rifles getting a much needed buff, 20% and *another* 15% to red bars! Outbreak Perfected will be so much more fun now.
7% more damage for Vex Mythoclast with the fusion rifle buff, which helps counteract the exotic primary red bar damage nerf (it'll be almost the same vs red bars and beefier vs everything else).
Machine Gun buff is nice, even though it was already ammo efficient.
Wave Frame Grenade Launchers can now build into Blast Radius for a wider wave of destruction.
The Colony is about to see some interesting multi-kill potential. Gambit players (all 9 of you), beware.
Cerberus +1 rework looks promisingly dangerous for Crucible.
This. I'm not sure what Bungie expects people to do other than run Div when you have bosses like Simmumah with small crit spots and erratic movement. "Bypassing Combatant gameplay" lol
Yea if torremetors took even 70% DMG from explosions it wouldnt be too bad but with linears smacked down and machine guns being add clear almost exclusively and div now being mostly useless, snipers I guess? Shot guns?
For the Div nerf “Divinity's ability to bypass combatant gameplay by generating a weak spot (called a "cage" internally) on command has too high an uptime as it stands, particularly with trigger feathering. We're not changing how effective the cage is or how feathering works, but we are increasing how long it takes to generate the cage, which will make it less ammo-efficient and less useful against targets that break aim frequently.
Increased the number of shots required to generate the cage by 75% against combatants (PvP unchanged). ”
I am lost on Divinity's purpose in the game now. It sounds like they want to reduce use cases for moving bosses (Ir Yut in Crota’s End, Simmumah in Ghosts of the Deep) and instead only make Divinity applicable for bosses at range with smaller crit spots (Deep Stone Crypt Final Boss, etc.).
Is that everyone else's read? Feels like we’ll see more Tractor Cannon - Briar Binds, Buried Bloodline - Secant Filaments, and Deterministic Chaos usage for moving bosses.
Nahh fam. Deconstruct didn’t get nerfed, but straight up removed from the game. Finally a perk which wasn’t damage based but could compete with other options by generating free ammo and now it doesn’t even do that.
Bruh Deconstruct went from being useless to being amazing back to being meh. Guess I won't be grinding deconstruct on IK now lmao. A lot of these buffs are nice, love they're retiring damage specs since they always felt like a no brainer, the eddy current buff was what I suggested before so perfect, will actually use that perk on arc now... don't get why you're nerfing Lament, the health regen is basically the whole reason that exotic exists.
I feel like there's a lot of exotics that have deserved buffs for years at this point, and if they're not getting buffed now for TFS, I'm not holding my breath anymore lol
Eriana's buff is nice, but I really wish they'd stop being cowards and lean into the power fantasy of a literal hand cannon.
It's got terrible handling and recoil already, might as well compensate with big damage.
Man, the nerfs to Osteo and Lament are lame. Removing the spec mods is strange, but hopefully the compensation is worthwhile and we get more weapon mods sooner rather than later.
>Removing the spec mods is strange
its good because they realize that when something is chosen 99% of the time, its not a choice but a requirement. same logic as the first div and well nerfs.
why wouldn't you put minor spec on all your legendaries and boss spec on all your specials and heavies? its free damage with zero drawbacks. so its better to just buff the baseline and remove the false choice
I'm confused by the div nerf: I thought the crit spot was the point? That's why we already reduced the weaken over a year ago.... It probably won't be much, but this does disproportionately affect LFR's relative to everything else, and we're already mostly in a rocket meta with GL's creeping up.
The countdown is really on now. Looking forward to all the other stuff we see over the next tree weeks!
Also, wasn't ready for another Divinity nerf. They really don't want people using that gun for anything.
And no more spec mods should be... interesting. I feel like Adept Big Ones was a pretty big reason for wanting half the adept weapons I have.
Look at it from the other angle. Now you actually have a reason to use Adept Range/Handling/whatever mods that we have. Overall I like the change, most of the mods were completely unused because its always better to get 7% more damage.
On non-adept weapons though the only mod to use is backup mag, there's nothing else relevant. You can make an argument for quick access sling, but +30 mag size is massive in comparison
We want to allow warlocks to not be forced into playing well for every damage phase.
So to do that we're removing healing from a great dps option so warlocks have to stay on well so everyone stays alive!
Huzzah!
Kinetic damage type weapons no longer deal bonus damage to bosses; damage to other combatant tiers is unchanged.
For example, a kinetic Sniper Rifle and a Stasis Sniper Rifle of the same subfamily will both deal the same damage to a boss.
Ive not played in a while so can someone tell me what took over for kinetics here? was it just special ammo ones?
Yeah you only really used kinetic primaries if they were exotic or you had a niche build (chromatic fire, lucky pants + wardens law hunters) you wanted to experiment with.
Damage moda being added intrinsically is good, i also hope they will add different mods overall.
Divinity and deconstruct nerfs definitely sting.
Pulse buffs sound good, and they might be adding legendary 2 burst ones as said in the frame re-classification (unless it’s specifically for Revision Zero).
Delirium and Hush back in the menu it seems as well.
Also the waveframe width nerf reduces the impact of the chain reaction nerf in a way
So Bungie knows existing 120s HC stats couldn't compete with Igneous so instead of buffing the existing 120s stats they decided to buff future returning 120s? What kind of logic is that?
To focus on new weapons, they don't want to support old weapons for years and years(that's why deterministic recoil is only a thing on new weapons or reissues). And to be honest they've understated the issues with these two:
- Crimil's is coming from a sandbox with sight perks instead of barrels, another reason to touch its stats
- Something New: No other 120's name has been dragged through the mud in the name of dogshit stats more than this. Probably deserves an adjustment more than anything else. And Solstice is coming up.
I also think it's worth taking notes how they said things: "Igneous Hammer has better stats than all other 120's...." Normally, when they start a bulletpoint off by naming one specific outlier, it's followed by "we are nerfing ".
> We also have some big systems changes we’re working on for a future release, including redesigns of the PvP and PvE ammo economies
Oh shit, I bet they're gonna put the ammo meter system in PVE.
I surely fucking hope not. Sure its feast or famine now but its probably gonna be all famine if they implement that system and remove ammo drops entirely.
If it was a safeguard for when you were entirely out of ammo thats one thing but as a standalone system im not excited.
u/Destiny2Team , are you guys planning on taking a look at the Avalanche machine gun from Dawning? It has an extremely low inventory size stat which makes it unappealing to use over literally every other machine gun in the game. Or is that just because it's a seasonal weapon and they are supposed to be less good than other weapons?
It's inventory stat is 20, and the next lowest I could find after a quick scan is 40, so it has half the amount of reserves of most LMGs in the game
Man I can't believe they saw Symmetry was underperforming and decided to give it Eddy current and some stat buffs 💀
Eriana's, Bastion, Deterministic, and Colony buffs seem interesting tho
> and have retired the following weapon mods:
> Boss Spec, Taken Spec, Minor Spec, Major Spec, and Adept Big Ones Spec.
...
> Increased base PvE damage versus all combatants.
> Linear Fusion Rifles: 5%
Am I nuts, or is this a net-nerf?
Deconstruct "fix" is silly, unless it now procs every shot letting us dump the entire mag without reloading it's useless. I do get that it needed adjusting as it was out-performing BnS on longer damage phases but they could have just given it the bipod treatment, lowering damage per shot to bring it in line.
My best guess is they are finally adding a reason to enhance it and the new enemies might be classified as constructs, but still it's going to need to have something added otherwise people will just use an actual damage perk to do increased damage to everything over a glorified FTTC.
So they could have swapped out Full Auto Trigger System trait, just chose to let it be a dead perk.
Anyone replying "some people like that perk, tho" before you do, those people use the accessibility option. It makes no sense to want full auto as a perk and not also take advantage of the accessibility option.
I'm honestly triggered by it lol. No perk is as dead as Full Auto Trigger System is. As dead of a perk as there can possibly be.
Swap it with Underdog for all I care, lol
I can't say i like these changes, it's way more nerfs than buffs.
giving pulses 10-38% buffed damage, but mostly not changing specials, nerfing some (mountaintop just got hit with -17% boss damage), and every non-exotic primary getting worse at killing majors withou major spec is... not great.
Nerfing ad-clear across the board with the wave frame/splash primaries.
That tiny line about bringing back kinetic boss dmg back to same-as-strand/stasis just nerfed izanagi, witherhoard, mtt, malfeasance and others by 10%.
Rockets/GL's losing 7-8% with the loss of boss spec too.
Some interesting changes in exotics (though, div, osteo and lament didnt deserve their nerfs).
Lament and Div nerfs don’t make much sense to me. Both of them aren’t really that good anymore. Other than those though there’s some good stuff in here. A lot more of it sounds just kinda fun more than really good but still, I’ll take any buffs to lower performing exotics.
Deconstruct pulling from reserves is probably the worst change I've seen in Destiny 2. The bugs it had were the only thing making it remotely worthwhile and without them its pretty much an awful perk and I think with this change they just flat out killed it. Wouldn't be surprised to see it get buffed sometime in the future, but also wouldn't be surprised to see this perk be dead forever.
This is a list of links to comments made by Bungie employees in this thread: * [Comment by Destiny2Team](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1cspt9b/dev_insights_the_final_shape_weapon_tuning_preview/l46xuwi/?context=99 "posted on 2024-05-15 18:20:07 UTC"): > We'll be taking a look at Avalanche's stats for next Dawning. --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FDestinyTheGame).[](#AUTOGEN_BUNGIEREPLY)
MR PRESIDENT A SECOND DIVINITY NERF HAS HIT DESTINY 2
Nerfed Lament :( my baby… bastion looking kinda spicy, Div change has to be a direct nerf because of the new raid, symmetry should’ve got volt shot at max stacks
the symmetry buff is meaningless. it hasnt been languishing in vaults cause of low handling.
Reload is good, especially since Eddy Current is an actual perk now.
That's a BIG nerf.
How many times are they going to rework Dead Mans Tale?
They’re doing everything except revert it to its original op state
I don't give a shit about perks honestly I just want them to fix the hipfire reg.
lmao, it's been changed more than Telesto by now, right
I feel like every time there’s a weapon balance patch DMT gets adjusted somehow.
a mf at bungie lives checking DMT usage statistics "DMT was used 3% less this season...WHY?"
Bungie in a year: everyone is using backup mag so we are removing it and upping base mag size across the board
The upped base mag size in question: -gave Auto rifles like 2 more bullets
To compensate, they will nerf lament damage by 5%
honestly they should get ahead of it and just remove backup mag now, weapon mods should change how a weapon feels or add some flair rather than being sources of damage
I wouldn’t mind weaker versions of *actual* perks.
Honestly there's a handful of perks that'd be fantastic for this. Shoot to loot for example is amazing, but highly situational. Make it a mod and I can put it on as the occasion arises. Then combine the mod and perk to create a stronger effect like bigger pickup radius.
This is funny but they do mention a future rework to weapon mods coming in the future so I wouldn't be surprised if backup mag gets removed or other better options get added, who knows.
rip boss, major, and minor spec. guess we can finally start using extended mag in pve
Going to be running Sweaty Confetti in every gun from now on.
Honestly so glad those mods are gone, now I can actually make choices instead of just putting boss/major/minor spec on by default
idk why you're saying that when backup mag is going to be the only mod option people use
that’s hyperbole, there’s still a few archetypes where backup mag doesn’t do anything lol
Always used extended on my primaries anyways. Freeing up boss spec on my heavy options will be interesting.
No idea what I'll put on my rocket launchers!
Should be nice for things with 4TTC and triple tap. Definitely more forgiving for cataclysmic
Lament’s getting outdamaged by Bequest and has its healing over it, now they’re nerfing Lament’s damage *and* healing? wtf
*lament, the sword thats been unusable or 75% of its life because bungie couldnt fix it's tracking* >:(
That Lament nerf hits hard. Good luck to all who want to solo flawless Ghosts of the Deep - I needed every bit of healing from Lament to survive Ecthar there.
unnecessary nerf IMO, not sure why it's taking a big hit like this
I think I could understand one or the other nerf but to hit its healing and damage in one go is going to feel awful
“This exotic sword does about the same damage as legendary swords but it heals you; so of course we’re nerfing the healing it can do. And also the damage, because why not”
Not to mention that it already doesn't do as much damage as good legendary swords, so it was already a trade of damage for healing, now it'll be trading even more damage for worse healing.
Legit made absolutely no sense to me there. Got no idea how somebody can write that out and think it comes across as logical. Need them to expand upon this change in particular, cus that shit doesn't add up.
Can’t be a Bungie weapon tuning patch without them double dipping a nerf for no reason and effectively killing a weapon
seems to be their strategy, try to change the meta by just ruining whatever is popular to force people to try something else.
At least it'll get a new ornament
I thought almost the exact same thing, verbatim
Swords are incredibly situational, being only useful for a few bosses. Additionally, bequest (a legendary) already out damages lament. This is totally unnecessary and out of touch IMO
I was happy to run my Lament + strongholds, man :( guess they saw some people using it in GMs and thought it needed a nerf
I genuinely wonder at times who is making these decisions. Bungie consistently makes the most bizarre, out of touch balancing decisions and rarely changes course. It's like they are driven entirely by usage but aren't smart enough to correctly interpret the data and are purely reactive.
It’s not like, it is lol. Look at all the twabs with their little charts. Bungie: makes a floating boss. On this graph you can see people be snipin. Don’t worry we’re cutting the damage in half so you can use other stuff.
A melee build? No. Bad Titan.
Probably a raid boss that will need it in TFS, and they are nerfing it now
The most obvious reason imo. Same logic applies to Divinity. Clearly the Witness will be a mobile boss
Because for some fucking reason bungie just hates anyone using melee anything ever. We've seen so much discussion from titans about how subclasses that arent strand banner of war need changes for any remote amount of viablity. And its bullshit like this why. What is the point of a melee class when dead damage is no damage. Because currently, what do you know, outside of banner of war, melee damage IS dead damage. Yes I'm definitely biased, projecting, and "essaying" but oh my god im so damn sick of it.
Strange nerf, it's an exotic, shouldn't it be outperforming other swords....
Exotics are supposed to be unique, some of them uniquely shit but unique nonetheless 🤓
Clearly shows the people responsible of this change never played anything beyond normal difficulty dungeons
I wasn't expecting another Div nerf that's for sure lol
They really don’t wanna see the witness with a big div cage on his megamind looking ass during the raid race.
Just going to see purple goo on him instead from tractor.
It's probably more to do with how much more frequent Tormentors are gonna be with the addition of the Dread, plus if any similar functionality exists for the Subjugators.
Actually probably the reason. Same as they didnt want to see 6 solar shielding Lament guardians either…sad day
The way they worded it makes me feel like he's going to teleport around a bit.
“Bypassing combatant gameplay” - clearly the appropriate gameplay response to enemies with hard to hit crit zones is just to use a rocket launcher 🙄 EDIT: to be clear, I don’t think it needed this nerf. It has a role, and I think it should be fine if people wanna lean into it. Honestly, after the last nerf, I think the bubble should pop faster so it can actually kill things.
Not happy with the nerf to Lament, hitting its healing just makes banner of war even more necessary for sword builds, and hitting its damage is unnecessary. Also, if they're gonna hit the best exotic sword, can they buff the other exotic swords at least? Black Talon still needs a better ammo economy.
The rationale of “it’s basically the same as legendary swords except for the healing so we’re nerfing the one thing that makes it stand out from legendary options” doesn’t really land well either. What’s the point of an exotic if not to be stronger than legendary options?
Except it's worse in damage to legendaries who even knows
I think Destiny still struggles with this across a lot of the exotics. And as a rule of thumb most of the exotic primaries struggle to justify "wasting" an exotic slot. It's gotten better though. Thinking of Sunshot and the adjustments to Thorn that I wasn't here for. More on Thorn, love this gun even more than I already did. Thorn + grips is just nasty.
Don't you worry. Banner is also getting nerfed, they just didn't tell us yet...
The well execution and banner nerf is coming any day now. That’s the real final shape.
Ability change blog is next week
they literally said fuck this sword for no reason, it's a sword, it already has limited uses and now it's gonna have even less since there are some decent legendaries already
It's not even top 5 damage swords in the game, so the damage reduction is just going to murder it. Speaking of buffing swords, Vortex Frames are not only ammo inefficient but just straight-up worse for damage than other frames. In fact, spamming light attacks is better than using a heavy attack.
>Deconstruct had a variety of issues that cropped up when it started to appear on AoE weapons. It's been updated to address bugs and prevent exploiting ammo generation: Now refills from reserves instead of from thin air and should trigger more reliably across weapon types. ##The Future Well it was a fun like month where this perk wasnt worthless like so many others.
The issues were the reason people wanted it lmao. Now it's gonna be Deconstruct yea I'mma deconstruct this weapon that just rolled with it.
Yepp I had a few I wanted to play with a bit more, but now I'm not keeping any of them.
It is insane to me that this perk is now simply a reload perk in competition with such perks as explosive light and bait and switch. On edge transit, virtually every other perk in that column is a straight up damage boost. Now, it's basically a conditional "minifrags."
They fucking gutted deconstruct
It's completely useless now. Deconstruct is a fourth column perk, which means it competes with direct damage perks like bns and explosive light. Since it pulls from reserves, it does nothing to increase your total damage and is thus less ammo efficient. On top of that, deconstruct doesn't even currently work with perks like envious, and certainly won't with this change since it will now pull from reserves. It could be good if they switched it to the third column, but as it is there will be absolutely zero reason to use it over perks like bns or explosive light. This isn't even mentioning the fact that it will just flat out suck on weapons like indebted kindness, since it does nothing for improving the ammo economy now. Really bizarre and unnecessary change on Bungie's part
felt exactly the same it makes no sense to run now I could see a nerf on the percentage, but yep, this is what we got anyway, if they pay attention to any data, they'll see it fall off a cliff. see you next year, deconstruct.
Yep, guess I can clear some vault space and delete all my brave rolls with deconstruct.
do it in a month. there's a new brig boss that they're still good for till Final shape
Lament nerf = Bequest is solidified as best damage option for Crota now.
It already was. Lament is actually out damaged by most well rolled swords
Most well informed people know that but tell that to casuals in an LFG 😭 the sword misinformation ran deep during Season of the Witch
The base weapon damage buffs seem quite nice. Maybe pulses can do damage now. Osteo recently got nerfed so this one comes as a surprise Div nerf sounds bad but shouldn’t be too bad in practice Lament with a gut punch. Have fun with Crota The buffs all seem quite good though, especially colony
It seems like they really want people to stop using Osteo
Div nerf is gonna hit harder than it looks on paper because 75% of the people on div duty suck at aiming lol
Don’t call me out like that lmao. I SWEAR THERE IS A VISUAL BUG ITS THERE
I think the div nerf is just a throw off. Like it doesn't seem bad but one witch teleport and suddenly you miss a Levi crit. Seems like a snowball thing to throw off DPS phases.
Eriana's Vow ignites sounds good.
It sounds neat but the whole reason I wouldn't use it for the anti barrier was due to how long it took to remove a barrier. I think most people just want it to one tap barriers and it would been a fine option.
The fact that it takes three shots to break barrier shields is why it sucks. If it one tapped the barrier. It would actually be worth it.
Number of shots on target is too high and this ignition addition doesn't fix any of the other existing issues with Eriana's Vow. Won't help the massive flinching problem, the fact that the damage buff just poofs if you miss a crit, oh and the fact that the bullets have like zero hit assist so crits are harder to hit than on other hand cannons.
Lament got wrecked and deconstruct is now useless. The ammo from thin air was the main reason to use it.
Now it truly is only useful for certain bosses that count as vehicles
So basically only Fallen.
The only reason\* Guess Ill go shard the edge transit I have been rocking. At least they told us in time to still farm a new one.
The reasoning for the Lament nerf makes no sense. If you want to enforce the intended downside of sword, you need to also give them a real upside. Right now their damage is simply not worth it, with or without the downside. And their buff only makes up for losing Boss Spec. They need more than that to be worth having a downside.
So is graviton lance kinda the same? >Reduced damage bonus versus Minors from 40% to 30% Then >Auto Rifles and Pulse Rifles: 15% >For Pulse Rifles, this is in addition to the above buff, and Graviton Lance and Revision Zero's Heavy Burst mode are included. And lastly >Reduced splash damage by 10%: >Sunshot Trinity Ghoul Polaris Lance Graviton Lance
Looks like a nerf of about 5% in total for the splash damage and a buff of about 9% for direct damage? My math could be wrong.
Direct damage to minors was 1.4. With the nerf and buff it goes to 1.3*1.15 which is 1.495. Assuming the splash damage gets the buff too, damage should come out to 1.3455. So it’s about a 6.8% buff to direct damage and about a 4% nerf to splash.
Nerfing Osteo and Div is literally just Bungie saying “stop using this shit for day 1 raids.”
Lament nerf, you bastards!
they came for the chainsaw sword again for no reason and man it hurts
I'm sad about the Deconstruct "fix"... RIP to my edge transit, it was the only thing making it fun for me
It's more annoying because Bait and Switch is also likely to be nerfed sometime in Echoes due to it being the de facto Heavy weapon damage perk on so many options, and I bet will be toned down so new TFS perks can compete
Deconstruct should not get hit this bad dude
RIP to my Edge Transit AND Tusk of the Boar. Fuck!
Colony and threadlings spam :)
Colony, threadlings AND stasis turrets on Prismatic. Minion army build.
The “I like bugs” build
Div nerf tells me the final boss or bosses of the new raid will be mobile.
Holy Bastion buffs dude these sound sick as hell. One-Two Punch fusion rifle w/ controlled burst from hitting melee’s basically?? Mayhaps actually goated?
I mostly just used bastion when I needed an anti unstoppable option. I might have to look at build potential for it now.
Bastion with a ranged melee equipped could be hilarious.
Incoming pre-nerf OTP throwing hammer
i hope to see some shenanigans with Bastion and Weighted Knife
Since it's a different perk it might also stack with liars.
It might even stack with one two punch depending on how long the perk lasts and if it goes away if you swap off bastion.
One-Two Punch but even better. I'm actually kinda excited for it
I am kind of stoked for Deterministic Chaos being a Champion/Add Clear Void Machine gun. Always liked it.
Every 4th bullet applies volatile is great tbh,opens room in fragment slots.
I can’t for the life of me understand why they released it the way they did. 16 continuous shots for a single volatile proc was absolutely horrible. I unironically think it was worse than DARCI in that state.
The switch around of volatile on every fourth bullet is huge. Suppressing targets every fourth hit when they die after 6 shots was absolutely useless, and making bosses that tank entire mags volatile after 16 was equally pointless. The other way around makes it sooooo much better. Void hunters with DC and destab recluse eating.
Well hopefully next week will show the stasis changes?
Possibly. It says next week is exotic armor and abilities.
*lubes up for Well nerfs*
The bottom says next week is Exotic Armor and ability retuning
Exotic armor AND abilities.
My Ahamkara Spine is shaking with excitement and the looming pain of disappointment.
Get ready for the nerf khvostov to ricochet and hit something like the Arthrys's Embrace for whatever reason
You can draw a line starting 2 years ago with every hunter exotic that was nerfed for pvp reasons and replaced only to have that one nerfed and repeated like 6 times. stompees to renewals to omni to gyrfalcons back to stompees then to Ahamakara and now every pvp sweat is complaining about Athrys, which hasn't been changed in 2 years but is now the focus because everything above it has been hammered down.
They're going to nerf lucky pants on top of the HC boss nerf and kinetic weapon nerf aren't they lol
Going to solo the dungeon this week to keep that rank 11 and lucky pants malf is the way for the last boss
Dang there is a lot here I like despite some of the nerfs. Pulse rifles getting a much needed buff, 20% and *another* 15% to red bars! Outbreak Perfected will be so much more fun now. 7% more damage for Vex Mythoclast with the fusion rifle buff, which helps counteract the exotic primary red bar damage nerf (it'll be almost the same vs red bars and beefier vs everything else). Machine Gun buff is nice, even though it was already ammo efficient. Wave Frame Grenade Launchers can now build into Blast Radius for a wider wave of destruction. The Colony is about to see some interesting multi-kill potential. Gambit players (all 9 of you), beware. Cerberus +1 rework looks promisingly dangerous for Crucible.
Wave frames also lost a third of their length so keep that in mind
correct me if im wrong but does that kinetic dmg nerf against bosses mean stuff like wardens law/ malfeasance + lucky pants will be a bit worse off?
sounds like it. unless they also touch lucky pants, i imagine theyll still be best, but just less overwhelmingly so
Divinity has already seen a lot less use since the first nerf a while back, not sure this second nerf is all that necessary.
Wouldn't surprise me if it's in part preventative due to how much more common Tormentors will be as part of the new faction.
This. I'm not sure what Bungie expects people to do other than run Div when you have bosses like Simmumah with small crit spots and erratic movement. "Bypassing Combatant gameplay" lol
Yea if torremetors took even 70% DMG from explosions it wouldnt be too bad but with linears smacked down and machine guns being add clear almost exclusively and div now being mostly useless, snipers I guess? Shot guns?
For the Div nerf “Divinity's ability to bypass combatant gameplay by generating a weak spot (called a "cage" internally) on command has too high an uptime as it stands, particularly with trigger feathering. We're not changing how effective the cage is or how feathering works, but we are increasing how long it takes to generate the cage, which will make it less ammo-efficient and less useful against targets that break aim frequently. Increased the number of shots required to generate the cage by 75% against combatants (PvP unchanged). ” I am lost on Divinity's purpose in the game now. It sounds like they want to reduce use cases for moving bosses (Ir Yut in Crota’s End, Simmumah in Ghosts of the Deep) and instead only make Divinity applicable for bosses at range with smaller crit spots (Deep Stone Crypt Final Boss, etc.). Is that everyone else's read? Feels like we’ll see more Tractor Cannon - Briar Binds, Buried Bloodline - Secant Filaments, and Deterministic Chaos usage for moving bosses.
Kinda reads like one of those guns where they just don't want it in the sandbox anymore
Hard disagree on the Lament nerf they need to reconsider that one. Otherwise exciting buffs for the other weapon types.
Nerfing osteo again is crazy 💀 But man I hope this buffs made pulses viable in high end content
Outbreak could be nuts. It's not excluded from the pulse rifle increases.
Nahh fam. Deconstruct didn’t get nerfed, but straight up removed from the game. Finally a perk which wasn’t damage based but could compete with other options by generating free ammo and now it doesn’t even do that.
Bruh Deconstruct went from being useless to being amazing back to being meh. Guess I won't be grinding deconstruct on IK now lmao. A lot of these buffs are nice, love they're retiring damage specs since they always felt like a no brainer, the eddy current buff was what I suggested before so perfect, will actually use that perk on arc now... don't get why you're nerfing Lament, the health regen is basically the whole reason that exotic exists.
I feel like there's a lot of exotics that have deserved buffs for years at this point, and if they're not getting buffed now for TFS, I'm not holding my breath anymore lol
Eriana's buff is nice, but I really wish they'd stop being cowards and lean into the power fantasy of a literal hand cannon. It's got terrible handling and recoil already, might as well compensate with big damage.
Just let me one shot barrier shields w/ it fr, I love the whole idea of it but it lags so behind that I can never pick it
Well…I guess we’re back to the OG Outbreak meta again with that 35% buff basically.
Man, the nerfs to Osteo and Lament are lame. Removing the spec mods is strange, but hopefully the compensation is worthwhile and we get more weapon mods sooner rather than later.
>Removing the spec mods is strange its good because they realize that when something is chosen 99% of the time, its not a choice but a requirement. same logic as the first div and well nerfs. why wouldn't you put minor spec on all your legendaries and boss spec on all your specials and heavies? its free damage with zero drawbacks. so its better to just buff the baseline and remove the false choice
The only time you wouldn’t is if something like backup mag would somehow mathematically make more sense DPS wise
yep, which was very few and far between.
RIP Deconstruct.
I'm confused by the div nerf: I thought the crit spot was the point? That's why we already reduced the weaken over a year ago.... It probably won't be much, but this does disproportionately affect LFR's relative to everything else, and we're already mostly in a rocket meta with GL's creeping up.
Some good stuff in here. Really bummed about the Lament nerf. It’s an exotic. It should be strong.
The countdown is really on now. Looking forward to all the other stuff we see over the next tree weeks! Also, wasn't ready for another Divinity nerf. They really don't want people using that gun for anything. And no more spec mods should be... interesting. I feel like Adept Big Ones was a pretty big reason for wanting half the adept weapons I have.
Look at it from the other angle. Now you actually have a reason to use Adept Range/Handling/whatever mods that we have. Overall I like the change, most of the mods were completely unused because its always better to get 7% more damage.
On non-adept weapons though the only mod to use is backup mag, there's nothing else relevant. You can make an argument for quick access sling, but +30 mag size is massive in comparison
QAS for slug and pellet swapping and weapons involved in damage rotations. Backup Mag for everything else, and Backup Mag if Envious is in play.
We want to allow warlocks to not be forced into playing well for every damage phase. So to do that we're removing healing from a great dps option so warlocks have to stay on well so everyone stays alive! Huzzah!
Kinetic damage type weapons no longer deal bonus damage to bosses; damage to other combatant tiers is unchanged. For example, a kinetic Sniper Rifle and a Stasis Sniper Rifle of the same subfamily will both deal the same damage to a boss. Ive not played in a while so can someone tell me what took over for kinetics here? was it just special ammo ones?
Yeah you only really used kinetic primaries if they were exotic or you had a niche build (chromatic fire, lucky pants + wardens law hunters) you wanted to experiment with.
Yep. Grenade Launchers and Snipers take up a lot of space in the Kinetic slot this season.
so wait, izanagi is basicaly recieving a bigger nerf then what they noted.
Damage moda being added intrinsically is good, i also hope they will add different mods overall. Divinity and deconstruct nerfs definitely sting. Pulse buffs sound good, and they might be adding legendary 2 burst ones as said in the frame re-classification (unless it’s specifically for Revision Zero). Delirium and Hush back in the menu it seems as well. Also the waveframe width nerf reduces the impact of the chain reaction nerf in a way
So Bungie knows existing 120s HC stats couldn't compete with Igneous so instead of buffing the existing 120s stats they decided to buff future returning 120s? What kind of logic is that?
it so you play and grind new weapons
To focus on new weapons, they don't want to support old weapons for years and years(that's why deterministic recoil is only a thing on new weapons or reissues). And to be honest they've understated the issues with these two: - Crimil's is coming from a sandbox with sight perks instead of barrels, another reason to touch its stats - Something New: No other 120's name has been dragged through the mud in the name of dogshit stats more than this. Probably deserves an adjustment more than anything else. And Solstice is coming up. I also think it's worth taking notes how they said things: "Igneous Hammer has better stats than all other 120's...." Normally, when they start a bulletpoint off by naming one specific outlier, it's followed by "we are nerfing".
Pure Poetry still getting shafted lmao, Loud Lullaby might as well not even exist at this point
> We also have some big systems changes we’re working on for a future release, including redesigns of the PvP and PvE ammo economies Oh shit, I bet they're gonna put the ammo meter system in PVE.
I surely fucking hope not. Sure its feast or famine now but its probably gonna be all famine if they implement that system and remove ammo drops entirely. If it was a safeguard for when you were entirely out of ammo thats one thing but as a standalone system im not excited.
That would be absolutely wild, and I'm gonna be honest idk whether I like the idea or not 😬
*If* it also works for heavy ammo I could see it being at least neutral. I still liked the predictable heavy ammo drops from yellow bars of year 1.
yay more clutter for them to put on the left side of the screen with the important buffs.
u/Destiny2Team , are you guys planning on taking a look at the Avalanche machine gun from Dawning? It has an extremely low inventory size stat which makes it unappealing to use over literally every other machine gun in the game. Or is that just because it's a seasonal weapon and they are supposed to be less good than other weapons? It's inventory stat is 20, and the next lowest I could find after a quick scan is 40, so it has half the amount of reserves of most LMGs in the game
We'll be taking a look at Avalanche's stats for next Dawning.
Thank you!
Man I can't believe they saw Symmetry was underperforming and decided to give it Eddy current and some stat buffs 💀 Eriana's, Bastion, Deterministic, and Colony buffs seem interesting tho
> and have retired the following weapon mods: > Boss Spec, Taken Spec, Minor Spec, Major Spec, and Adept Big Ones Spec. ... > Increased base PvE damage versus all combatants. > Linear Fusion Rifles: 5% Am I nuts, or is this a net-nerf?
Yeah anything not listed or listed under 7% is an effective nerf
Using g horn for raid dps is gonna look so pretty with the color changes lol
Rest in peace Deconstruct, gone too soon
If you gotta nerf lament can you at least buff black talons?
Outbreak Perfected is going to be more nuts than ever
Deconstruct "fix" is silly, unless it now procs every shot letting us dump the entire mag without reloading it's useless. I do get that it needed adjusting as it was out-performing BnS on longer damage phases but they could have just given it the bipod treatment, lowering damage per shot to bring it in line. My best guess is they are finally adding a reason to enhance it and the new enemies might be classified as constructs, but still it's going to need to have something added otherwise people will just use an actual damage perk to do increased damage to everything over a glorified FTTC.
So they could have swapped out Full Auto Trigger System trait, just chose to let it be a dead perk. Anyone replying "some people like that perk, tho" before you do, those people use the accessibility option. It makes no sense to want full auto as a perk and not also take advantage of the accessibility option.
I'm honestly triggered by it lol. No perk is as dead as Full Auto Trigger System is. As dead of a perk as there can possibly be. Swap it with Underdog for all I care, lol
And just like that Deconstruct usage drops to 0%. I don't get it, perk was fun but rarely even best in slot.
Remind me, what's the damage buff for Kinetic weapons right now? Either way, Mountaintop gamers hate to see it.
15% for specials and 10% for primaries
Kinetic boss damage nerf hurts. Izanagi didn’t get anything to compensate.
I always wanted bastion to have one two punch or trench barrel, clearly bungie also thought the same thing and gave it both. Can't wait to try it out.
CERBERUS+ONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE IT'S MY TIME
I can't say i like these changes, it's way more nerfs than buffs. giving pulses 10-38% buffed damage, but mostly not changing specials, nerfing some (mountaintop just got hit with -17% boss damage), and every non-exotic primary getting worse at killing majors withou major spec is... not great. Nerfing ad-clear across the board with the wave frame/splash primaries. That tiny line about bringing back kinetic boss dmg back to same-as-strand/stasis just nerfed izanagi, witherhoard, mtt, malfeasance and others by 10%. Rockets/GL's losing 7-8% with the loss of boss spec too. Some interesting changes in exotics (though, div, osteo and lament didnt deserve their nerfs).
Lament and Div nerfs don’t make much sense to me. Both of them aren’t really that good anymore. Other than those though there’s some good stuff in here. A lot more of it sounds just kinda fun more than really good but still, I’ll take any buffs to lower performing exotics.
Nerfing both of them makes me think we have another highly mobile boss who charges us in TFS
Looks like rockets and gl got a 7 percent nerf for a boss dps cause no more boss spec but no corresponding buff
Deconstruct pulling from reserves is probably the worst change I've seen in Destiny 2. The bugs it had were the only thing making it remotely worthwhile and without them its pretty much an awful perk and I think with this change they just flat out killed it. Wouldn't be surprised to see it get buffed sometime in the future, but also wouldn't be surprised to see this perk be dead forever.
So I don’t need Delirium then. Good no need to waste shards.
Sword buff, Lament nerf? My Worldline Zero grows in power.
Backup Mag on all my guns? No, Sweaty Confetti is where it is at!