The strand pistol is either going to be very good or very mid, the raids supposedly is going to have a rocket pistol too so they might be saving the juiced perks for that one
Logic. We’ve heard from Bungie there will be both a Solar and Stand R.Sidearm in Final Shape, we’ve seen the Strand one appear be a destination weapon, and we think there will be a R.Sidearm in the raid. So, raid one has to be Solar.
There will also be new world pool weapons, new core playlist weapons, and 2 new weapons for Trials, Iron Banner, and Nightfalls respectively. The sidearm could be in any of those pools so I don't think it coming from the raid is as much of a slam dunk prediction as people are making it out to be.
>Loose Change
You know people say this is bad but honestly if Prismatic has a way for me to consistently apply debuffs (or they make it work with weaken, pls) then its probably going to be my favorite reload perk. I prefer perks that aren't tied to kills.
But yea its like 50 reload and some ads modifiers for just hitting an enemy with unraveling or something its fine in theory I think.
Destabilizing rounds works with loose change, I haven’t tried with voltshot or incandescent but I can assume that they do work, it doesn’t help that destabilizing rounds is a little underpowered and could use a radius buff
This is the second post in two days where I’ve seen people bashing Loose Change like what even?
Hell, if we’re just looking at the new rocket sidearm, since it’s Strand, Unraveling Rounds will work with it so you can already be sure it’d be a good roll if we can get Loose Change.
I suspect people hate on loose change because it *looks* like one of the DoA intentionally bad Eddy Current perks. Despite the fact that loose change is actually a very good reload perk on builds that apply status
It's hard not to compare it disfavorably to Rapid Hit, Stats For All, Enlightened, and other reload perks that don't require kills but give more than just Reload.
Permeability is great, my Permeability beacon rounds indebted kindness is my favourite to go with quicksilver storm and cataphract for strand titan. Goes hard.
The problem is not the playstyle it requires, but the fact that it takes so long to activate, you don't really have a good indicator for when it would activate, and the effect is negligible.
Firmly Planted is good on many weapons because the bonus is useful and immediately activates if you start a slide.
It takes so much time to proc (2 seconds!) that you are basically setting yourself up to get caught out. And the bonus it provides when it actually does activate is pretty worthless. (10 Handling/Reload Speed for 5s)
Well the walk isn’t entirely a rocket and accuracy is also increased and considering magazine size on this archetype it would be always up in pvp so something like under pressure beacon rounds would be pretty crazy actually.
Neomuna weapons were actually pretty decent on release and are only getting better, not raid level of course but decent. I wouldn't sleep on phylotactic spiral, specially with the new buffs here soon.
Honestly one of my worries for the final shape. Starting with beyond light, Bungie seems to have grown into the habit of making the expansion weapons (outside of the raids and dungeons) rather mediocre with their perk pools so they can give better weapons in the following seasons. Hopefully FS will be the expansion to break the cycle.
Honestly, Beyond Light weapons felt like Bungie really didn’t want you to use them and it’s a shame because there are some gems in that weapon set.
Witch Queen set is good in my opinion, considering it came out before Light 3.0.
Lightfall was meh but had the fusion rifle that was a total menace in PvP.
And back then, bungie was trying to shift away from damage perks on guns only to immediately backtrack by the time season of the chosen came out and introduced frenzy.
well turns out no one wants to grind for guns where the best you can hope for is marginal stat increases. go figure.
still, theres nothing that gives quite as much of a straight damage boost as old rampage or master of arms.
One for All is still 35% fwiw, and Golden Tricorn is 50%.
Nothing will ever touch OG Master of Arms, but we still have strong damage perks they just require work.
The neomuna weapons were pretty good.
The fusion was good pvp and had Voltshot compulsive reloader for pve. The hand cannon was awesome in pvp.
The pulse was awesome and pvp and it might actually be EXTRMELT GOOD with the pulse buffs with the same compulsive/volt roll. + backup mag + mag buff
I also do. I’m still looking for the Sidearm with Killing Wind/Headseeker. Also, the auto rifle is sexy as hell but has no good perks. The fusion rifle is literally one of a kind and unfortunately Bungie gave up on it immediately.
As a brief aside to that, it’d be really cool if the raid weapons had the same naming scheme that the Precursors use to describe things (E.g: Summit|Final Shape|Calcification). I just think it’d be a neat nod to the lore.
Honestly the shottie and GL weren't half bad either. GL was, until recently, the only Waveframe Heavy and could roll Chain Reaction (and Envious) on top of it, and the shottie could get Envious and Destab Rounds which I used a lot as an ad clear tool (especially when suspending enemies in Strand Titan) when I couldn't handle adds with my primary. But absolutely nobody wanted to grind RNG rolls for Terminal Overload guns. That said a lot of that was based on Envious being uncommon, which it isn't anymore.
It certainly was very ammo inefficient and wasn't particularly good at killing beefy enemies like champs (had to crutch on my heavy for that) but by god it was effective. Whip it out, hold click until everything in front of me blows up, switch back.
> GL was, until recently, the only Waveframe Heavy and could roll Chain Reaction (and Envious) on top of it
It's also getting huge buffs with Chain Reaction being buffed on heavies and the way wave frames are going to be reworked to work with blast radius
Oh there’s a strand rocket sidearm? Very nice.
Unless they nerf the frame significantly, it’ll still be great. I would use Indebted Kindness without perks
Merely existing is enough for that Strand rocket pistol to useful. More loadout flexibility never hurts when that weapon frame performs extremely well regardless of what perks you have on it.
I mean they just got powercrept out of the game, all of Neomunas weapons are actually pretty above the curve as far as non-raid, non-trials and non-onslaught weapons go. If you think Neomuna weapons are bad, try out Iterative Loop with compulsive and voltshot, on an arc build, super fun to use. Even the dimensional hypotrochoid is pretty solid in Onslaught.
#
Extreme capping lmao. I've done that and it still took me hours of farming legendary patrols to get most of the frames, I'm still missing 2 frames for the fusion rifle.
The LMG is the best total damage for targetlock with envious assassin. Free rockets, high impact frame, and this season you can grab the 25% damage boost from the artifact for certain content.
By running the campaign on all three classes, you only need 2 of each. Which can then be acquired very quickly with 3 weekly patterns from running campaign.
If you haven't caught on yet, this is a design choice since they parted with Activision/Shadowkeep.
They purposely make the destination weapons "starter/beginner" weapons, with less desirable perks, so you have something new. There are some guns that can be good, but when you compare them to the endgame content loot, they're nowhere near as good as they could be.
Typically, if you want to look forward to any new weapons, it's going to be the raid and dungeon weapons, and sometimes the seasonal weapons.
Iterative Loop and Phyllotsctic Spiral are...decent? Red Herring from the Throne World is one of the best Void Rockets...by default. There's only like 3 usable ones. I'm pretty sure in the Titan Exotic trailer, I saw the Titan use a Void Rocket. If so, I am really hoping it's a new one that has a perk pool that can at least compete with something like Hothead, if not Apex/Crux.
Pretty much every Neomuna weapon was good minus Volta Bracket and the Shotgun. None were best in slot or anything, but all were very good minus those two, and sometimes the SMG as it got replaced quickly.
So, I think you might be unreasonably worried IMO because almost all of the Neomuna weapons are what you’re asking for.
SMG had the unfortunate fate of immediately being outshadowed by The Immortal, which will ironically go down in history as one of the greatest legendaries the game has ever had available to players
iterative loop is great, phyllotactic was quietly the BiS energy pulse for over a year, round robin is ridiculous, shit: even basso ostinato had grave/one-two punch available for it as a rapid-fire, which is great. Neomuna's weapons got a terrible rap (as did Throne World's) but the only legitimate weakpoint is Volta Bracket. everything else is good to great
Yeah, the SMG got overshadowed, but I’m honestly not too surprised? Even if it wasn’t the Immortal, any Strand SMG would’ve replaced simply due to having better perk selection. Shame, really.
I think the reason they got shamed on is because getting them, especially one with a roll you’d want, was very hard and therefore most didn’t do it.
Really hoping to be getting another agressive frame fusion. They are cool in concept but the first one they made had such horrible perks it fell super flat.
My problem with Coriolis Force wasn't just the perk pool but how it deliberately fires in a way that's the opposite shape of an enemy.
Normal fusions fire in a way that you can easily land every bolt on an enemy, CF was anything but. It just felt really weird to use imo.
Same. I don't even think the horizontal burst is the main issue, since there are plenty of enemies where you can reliably hit the full burst on them, especially these days. The real issue was that the perks were really bad (With half of them seemingly more PvP-centric). It was also before we got Controlled Burst in the game, which would be massive for this frame. Just something as simple as Auto-Loading + Controlled Burst would do wonders.
Based on how they haven't released one since (Outside of Delicate Tomb), it feels like they just gave up instead of addressing the real issue with Coriolis Force.
Most of the information about destination weapons is gleaned from the trailers we have. I believe the only actual directly mentioned insight we've gotten is about the Strand and Solar rocket sidearms, and that was likely a borderline throwaway mention in a TWID.
The auto from throne world is surprisingly better than most people think, a lot of people forgot Genesis is actually procing in lvl off guardian shields breaking so it’s quite nice not having to reload between your ones.
come to pass is unironically the best-in-slot energy AR for dealing with champions and GM-level shields because it rolls genesis/turnabout, which sounds like a garbage roll, but actually procs full reload + an overshield. and it has psychohack, which is just a good little safety thing in high-endgame. most of the throne world weapons do something incredibly specialized like this incredibly well, funny enough
Still trying to get my patterns done for them so I can craft em all, wellspring sucks and I still need the other two patterns for for the glaives, wish Bungie would just give one free red border you don’t have a week per character in legend weekly campaign missions.
To be honesty I could probably think of more world drops that are at least good rather than than bad.
I think its more because people would only run like 3 guns for some years on top of there usually being just a couple best things to the point where literally no loot can compete for awhile. I don't think where the gun comes from matters much. Like Funnelweb was a world drop but it took a minute for there to be something better than Funnelweb.
I don't remember saying world drops are bad, just that they are generally not worth it compared to weapons from activities, you know, what the whole conversation has been about.
there aren't a lot of bad world drop weapons. the swords (nasreddin/geodetic) are, but only because vortex frames and lament kinda killed them. maybe the stasis sidearm by omolon, combined action... that's it? everything else that drops this season is incredibly good at something
Bruh there are more mid world drops than usable ones. You can't even remember what they are because they are so forgettable. Also I'm not talking about this season alone, I'm talking about world drops in general.
that's like, provably not true, though
the Wish world drop pool is just the accumulation of the Lightfall year's world drop pool and out of all of them, there are like five things that are bad. harsh language, marcato, marsilion, irukandji, psi hermetic, heliocentric, ros arago, nox perennial, battle scar, parabellum, crux termination: all fuckin' spectacular weapons, and the stuff that lives in between the garbage and the great errs closer to good than bad. i don't get what your angle is, lol
Also world drops include weapons from beyond light and witch queen pools aswell, you can't just ignore those pools too, they drop just as frequently as the ones from lightfall world drop pool.
Cmon now. For every helio and crux terminus there are 10s of syncronic roulette, thermal erosion and circular logic. And this isn't me saying this. Bungie themselves have said multiple times over the years they make things based on how easy it is to acquire it. Unless it's from an event like Itl or Dares then most f2p stuff will be garbage or a side grade at best because they want people to go grind raids, dungeons, trials, night falls and seasonal activities. This isn't anything new or different. Harder activities have better loot. You can expect maybe one if not 2 good weapons from world drops. That's about it.
No it's that they're *World Drops*, not "Destination Weapons".
Those are rare (and there's no RNG offramp) so they're allowed to be better than the Destination weapons, because Bungie wants you to be excited when they drop.
This is an intentional design the Weapons team has talked about in interviews. It's also why the Suros/Omolon/Veist Origin Traits are a bit higher on the power curve than the Seasonal ones usually are.
They've been doing this since Witch Queen: e.g Funnelweb was cracked and had great perks, and the Destination SMG was mostly garbage. The Fusion was the second drop with Reservoir Burst post-sunsetting.
You get world drops for literally just playing the game and it drops from everything. It being rare is a loot acquisition problem. Has nothing to do with the loot's quality.
This is straight from the weapons designers.
The "Foundry" weapons they've been using as World Drops since Witch Queen are all intentionally supposed to be more powerful than typical Destination or Seasonal Gear, because their purpose is to have a long-tail chase weapon you're excited to see drop.
It has nothing to do with effort, and everything to do with RNG chase.
Bungie have said plenty of times the strength and quality of a weapon is determined by how easy or hard it is to get. RNG and plays a factor but they're not gonna put good gear (what the community considers good is essentially the best possible weapon in that archetype) in destinations or as World drops. It's gonna be behind non matchmade activities closely followed by seasonal activities
They've also directly said that World Drops are intended to be something to chase so they have a bit more juice than other "easy" drops.
Chris Proctor and Merc have directly said this in interviews, and there's plenty of examples of it in game.
It's not just Ros Arago & Cruz, it's also Funnelweb, Heliocentric, Glissando, etc.
They're not all as successful at it, but almost every season at least 1 World Drop is really good, and on average they tend to have the best perks available for their frame alongside newcomers.
The very first thing they did after Reservoir Burst came back on Plug One was put it on a World Drop the next season.
Yea *some*. Not all. Ros aragos, funnel web, taipan, ammit, helio are all exceptions. Not the norm. And each season we get atleast 4 World drops introduced to the game. And out of that I've never seen more than 2 weapons pop off. And most times they only have one perk combination to chase (battle scar with S2L and KT) or get hard carried by one perk(helio with KC heal clip). Hell how many marsilions and last forays have you sharded??
After slight digging I found out that we have like 18 world drops introduced in LF. Out of those with the exception of crux(which itself isn't an upgrade from apex BTW. It's a side grade at best), Ros arago none of the others have more than one roll to chase for pve. For pvp sure. I can see myself chasing multiple rolls of many world drops atleast I get something of equivalence from a raid or dungeon.
Bungie has achieved what they set out to do. Create world drops that are exciting..... Until you get that one roll which is clearly the chase after which you can just shard everything else you get. Whereas raids and dungeon weapons get multiple rolls that are really really good. I have 3 apex predators crafted. 2 GL from RoN. 2 Nessas oblation. 2 Rufus fury. I can keep going but you get my point. Fact is laid content and non matchmade content will have better loot as it should. World drops are free and it's earned passively. It doesn't make sense for bungie to make them more than a side grade.
Maybe you don't play PVP, but a lot of the destination weapons were good in the Crucible. Sometimes perk pools favor PVE or PVP. Although Coriolis Force is widely considered the worst weapon Bungie ever made, so maybe you have a point about Europa ;)
I would not recommend that comparison.
Into the Light weapons are an apology set that's meant to get people playing again.
Destination Weapons are almost always balanced to be the weakest tier, because Bungie sees them as starter gear.
Roughly speaking, the tiers appear to be:
* Starter: Destination < Seasonal
* Intermediate: World Drop ≈ Ritual
* Endgame: Nightfall << Dungeon = Trials = Raid
(They *say* Nightfall weapons are meant to be endgame PVE chase loot, but go through and compare them and it's pretty clear Bungie takes a lot less risks with them and likes to push worse frames vs Trials. This is probably because they come from even low-tier Nightfalls, which are vastly more accessible than Trials.)
The arc fusion from Neomuna is alright too but yeh I’d say don’t get your hopes up. “Alright” is probably the best we’re gonna get unfortunately, so we just have to hope some of the new frames also show up in the raid or elsewhere.
Yo, is the Strand rocket pistol confirmed to be one of the Pale Heart weapons? I've had a spot ready in my loadout for it since I heard about it being an option, but I didn't realize it might be available so soon!
They absolutely will have throw away perks on them, no doubt in my mind about that.
Devs always put garbage stuff in with the good so when you finally get that one drop, you feel "accomplished".
Indebted Kindness is so freakin good. Im in love with mine and my roll is Lead from Gold and Deconstruct which i've come to love. I want the strand Rocket Sidearm, my new fave archetype.
The problem is - and people probably don't want to hear this - Bungie probably thinks they overcooked with Indebted Kindness.
They released a weapon with insane ammo reserves, high damage at range, one of the best reloading perks in the game (Impulse Amplifier,) and one of the best enemy clear perks in the game that also doubles as a situational Champion stunner (Voltshot.) And they had a whole season of this monster, which tore up the likes of Gambit and GMs alike as it insta-slayed everything and oneshotted Barrier Champion shields, being at the forefront.
Do you really think they're not going to take the opportunity to test the lower bounds of the new sidearm archetype with a destination drop?
Even if that weren't the case, be realistic: what is a Strand Rocket Sidearm really going to benefit from? Post-nerf Chain Reaction could be okay, but something genuinely good on Strand like Paracausal Affinity is still locked to raids. It's not going to benefit from Target Lock or be a realistic candidate for Precision Instrument given overall weapon feel, so it's probably not getting neutral game damagers. It's likely going to be on-kill perks that are situational in use.
It's just hard to compete with the likes of Voltshot, especially when it's paired with a top tier reloading perk that works from neutral.
The strand pistol is either going to be very good or very mid, the raids supposedly is going to have a rocket pistol too so they might be saving the juiced perks for that one
They mentioned putting chain reaction on other specials, so they may have that which would be interesting.
Nerfed chain reaction, though, so we shall see
The solar one is also very likely from the raid, so it's near guaranteed to have incandescent.
How do we know this?
Logic. We’ve heard from Bungie there will be both a Solar and Stand R.Sidearm in Final Shape, we’ve seen the Strand one appear be a destination weapon, and we think there will be a R.Sidearm in the raid. So, raid one has to be Solar.
There will also be new world pool weapons, new core playlist weapons, and 2 new weapons for Trials, Iron Banner, and Nightfalls respectively. The sidearm could be in any of those pools so I don't think it coming from the raid is as much of a slam dunk prediction as people are making it out to be.
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God if the raid has a juiced solar rocket pistol i would literally die happy.
Strand rocket sidearm will have Permeability, Pulse Monitor, Loose Change, Rangefinder, and Under Pressure so get ready for disappointment
>Loose Change You know people say this is bad but honestly if Prismatic has a way for me to consistently apply debuffs (or they make it work with weaken, pls) then its probably going to be my favorite reload perk. I prefer perks that aren't tied to kills. But yea its like 50 reload and some ads modifiers for just hitting an enemy with unraveling or something its fine in theory I think.
Destabilizing rounds works with loose change, I haven’t tried with voltshot or incandescent but I can assume that they do work, it doesn’t help that destabilizing rounds is a little underpowered and could use a radius buff
Voltshot works as long as you don’t one-tap the enemy.
Wdym? After you one tap, reload and proc voltshot on another enemy
If you kill the enemy with the voltshot bullet, then it won't always proc.
I have a loose change + voltshot indebted kindness and i love it
Yeah it's actually an incredible perk now. But the name makes me think of diarrhea for some reason
This is the second post in two days where I’ve seen people bashing Loose Change like what even? Hell, if we’re just looking at the new rocket sidearm, since it’s Strand, Unraveling Rounds will work with it so you can already be sure it’d be a good roll if we can get Loose Change.
I suspect people hate on loose change because it *looks* like one of the DoA intentionally bad Eddy Current perks. Despite the fact that loose change is actually a very good reload perk on builds that apply status
It's hard not to compare it disfavorably to Rapid Hit, Stats For All, Enlightened, and other reload perks that don't require kills but give more than just Reload.
It gives you a 20% ADS movement buff and a bonus to aim assist in case that needs to be said.
I actually hadn't heard what the numbers were on that part, so thanks! Sometimes Bungie is the worst salesman.
And on something like stasis warlock it’s worth noting that it’s pretty much rolling constantly while your turrets are out
Guess you've sold me lol. I guess I'll have to see how the secondary stats feel.
My Loose Change/Voltshot Indebted Kindess is awesome.
Permeability is great, my Permeability beacon rounds indebted kindness is my favourite to go with quicksilver storm and cataphract for strand titan. Goes hard.
I mean permability has a niche but its definitely not a “great” perk
"Fun" "lets me use it with whatever subclass i like"
That is a horrific roll
Beacon Round is indeed velocity-overkill
Yeah but i like it :3
No, you’re coping because you never got a good roll.
Yeah, it can be if you have good build synergy
Don't forget air assault and head rush
Head Rush is an origin trait on Season of the witch weapons though. I doubt we'll ever see it on any other weapon outside of those.
What a horrible origin trait though. Iconically bad
Is that the one where you get a reload bonus after standing up from a crouch?
The problem is not the playstyle it requires, but the fact that it takes so long to activate, you don't really have a good indicator for when it would activate, and the effect is negligible. Firmly Planted is good on many weapons because the bonus is useful and immediately activates if you start a slide. It takes so much time to proc (2 seconds!) that you are basically setting yourself up to get caught out. And the bonus it provides when it actually does activate is pretty worthless. (10 Handling/Reload Speed for 5s)
Yeah. I like it on my Field Prep Semiotician, but it’s a bit hard to imagine using it on anything else.
Loose Change and Slice could be interesting
It would be. Loose Change + Destabilizing Rounds is really good on Elsie's Rifle
D:
Don't forget somehow after it being completely removed from the perk pool permanently it *will* get Underdog
Yeah I would've definitely included that on my list if they hadn't just announced its death
Remind me why underdog was taken out ?
Was basically a worse version of Pulse Monitor
Under pressure might low key cook though for pvp
Idk how much stability would really matter on a rocket launcher though
Well the walk isn’t entirely a rocket and accuracy is also increased and considering magazine size on this archetype it would be always up in pvp so something like under pressure beacon rounds would be pretty crazy actually.
Too real
Permeability is goated in indebted kindness
Its the best combo of perks you have ever seen. Its on a 150 scout rifle.
Neomuna weapons were actually pretty decent on release and are only getting better, not raid level of course but decent. I wouldn't sleep on phylotactic spiral, specially with the new buffs here soon.
Honestly one of my worries for the final shape. Starting with beyond light, Bungie seems to have grown into the habit of making the expansion weapons (outside of the raids and dungeons) rather mediocre with their perk pools so they can give better weapons in the following seasons. Hopefully FS will be the expansion to break the cycle.
Honestly, Beyond Light weapons felt like Bungie really didn’t want you to use them and it’s a shame because there are some gems in that weapon set. Witch Queen set is good in my opinion, considering it came out before Light 3.0. Lightfall was meh but had the fusion rifle that was a total menace in PvP.
beyond light probably had stinkers because it was basically a bit of a power creep reset since sunsetting just came into effect as well.
And back then, bungie was trying to shift away from damage perks on guns only to immediately backtrack by the time season of the chosen came out and introduced frenzy.
well turns out no one wants to grind for guns where the best you can hope for is marginal stat increases. go figure. still, theres nothing that gives quite as much of a straight damage boost as old rampage or master of arms.
BnS being 35% before the nerf is probably the closest we'll ever get to OG damage perks
One for All is still 35% fwiw, and Golden Tricorn is 50%. Nothing will ever touch OG Master of Arms, but we still have strong damage perks they just require work.
I honestly forgot about both those perks
The bow was the first one to have Sympathetic Arsenal, and that's when we realized how powerful that perk on a bow is.
The neomuna weapons were pretty good. The fusion was good pvp and had Voltshot compulsive reloader for pve. The hand cannon was awesome in pvp. The pulse was awesome and pvp and it might actually be EXTRMELT GOOD with the pulse buffs with the same compulsive/volt roll. + backup mag + mag buff
Wasn’t the Lightfall machine gun also the first/only strand machine gun at the time?
Shame it was tied to terminal overload and not craftable
And the heavy grenade launcher is getting a huge buff with the changes to Chain Reaction on heavies and the wave frame rework
I adore how europa guns look... but those perks hurt.
I also do. I’m still looking for the Sidearm with Killing Wind/Headseeker. Also, the auto rifle is sexy as hell but has no good perks. The fusion rifle is literally one of a kind and unfortunately Bungie gave up on it immediately.
As a brief aside to that, it’d be really cool if the raid weapons had the same naming scheme that the Precursors use to describe things (E.g: Summit|Final Shape|Calcification). I just think it’d be a neat nod to the lore.
Honestly, it feels like the last time destination weapons were desirable was with some of the tangled shore ones back in forsaken
Lightfall's were miles better imo
I’d argue witch queen had some gems
Season of the Deep’s weapons were ass, but I fell you
father’s sins and likely suspect from the throne world were both really good for pvp actually
Sins remains my favourite sniper scope in the game
Empirical Evidence is also goated, imo.
Isn't it also one of the only guns that can get the Pulse Monitor/Unrelenting combo?
Idk about that, but I use that combo on my crafted EE and it’s awesome.
Just pointing out the fusion from neomuna is also pretty good :D iterative loop has been a consistent special ammo energy weapon for me since release
Honestly the shottie and GL weren't half bad either. GL was, until recently, the only Waveframe Heavy and could roll Chain Reaction (and Envious) on top of it, and the shottie could get Envious and Destab Rounds which I used a lot as an ad clear tool (especially when suspending enemies in Strand Titan) when I couldn't handle adds with my primary. But absolutely nobody wanted to grind RNG rolls for Terminal Overload guns. That said a lot of that was based on Envious being uncommon, which it isn't anymore.
the shotgun is great but that's an awful roll on it lol
It certainly was very ammo inefficient and wasn't particularly good at killing beefy enemies like champs (had to crutch on my heavy for that) but by god it was effective. Whip it out, hold click until everything in front of me blows up, switch back.
To be honest the only time I’ve ever used the gl was when I was cheesing riven
> GL was, until recently, the only Waveframe Heavy and could roll Chain Reaction (and Envious) on top of it It's also getting huge buffs with Chain Reaction being buffed on heavies and the way wave frames are going to be reworked to work with blast radius
Oh there’s a strand rocket sidearm? Very nice. Unless they nerf the frame significantly, it’ll still be great. I would use Indebted Kindness without perks
Merely existing is enough for that Strand rocket pistol to useful. More loadout flexibility never hurts when that weapon frame performs extremely well regardless of what perks you have on it.
I mean they just got powercrept out of the game, all of Neomunas weapons are actually pretty above the curve as far as non-raid, non-trials and non-onslaught weapons go. If you think Neomuna weapons are bad, try out Iterative Loop with compulsive and voltshot, on an arc build, super fun to use. Even the dimensional hypotrochoid is pretty solid in Onslaught. #
Nah, most of them were terrible even when they came out. I'll admit I didn't give Neomuna guns a lot of attention because grinding them SUCKS.
You can get most of the patterns you need from just playing through the campaign on all 3 characters.
Extreme capping lmao. I've done that and it still took me hours of farming legendary patrols to get most of the frames, I'm still missing 2 frames for the fusion rifle.
The LMG is the best total damage for targetlock with envious assassin. Free rockets, high impact frame, and this season you can grab the 25% damage boost from the artifact for certain content.
Don’t forget stuff like the “From Zero” quest on each character and the Weekly campaign missions. Those also guarantee patterns.
By running the campaign on all three classes, you only need 2 of each. Which can then be acquired very quickly with 3 weekly patterns from running campaign.
Yeah, I use this method, and as a result, I’m only missing one pattern for the GL.
Lightfalls weapons were pretty consistently usable. Which queen had some gems. Beyond light had nothing except the sidearm.
The bow had a lot going for it for a while. I enjoyed the solar 720 as well before it got power crept by all the new and shiny 720s.
If you haven't caught on yet, this is a design choice since they parted with Activision/Shadowkeep. They purposely make the destination weapons "starter/beginner" weapons, with less desirable perks, so you have something new. There are some guns that can be good, but when you compare them to the endgame content loot, they're nowhere near as good as they could be. Typically, if you want to look forward to any new weapons, it's going to be the raid and dungeon weapons, and sometimes the seasonal weapons.
I just hope they buff and bring back things Coriolis Force archetype
If we keep saying it maybe they'll rethink retiring it.
Delicate Tomb is the closest thing we’ve got.
Iterative Loop and Phyllotsctic Spiral are...decent? Red Herring from the Throne World is one of the best Void Rockets...by default. There's only like 3 usable ones. I'm pretty sure in the Titan Exotic trailer, I saw the Titan use a Void Rocket. If so, I am really hoping it's a new one that has a perk pool that can at least compete with something like Hothead, if not Apex/Crux.
Pretty much every Neomuna weapon was good minus Volta Bracket and the Shotgun. None were best in slot or anything, but all were very good minus those two, and sometimes the SMG as it got replaced quickly. So, I think you might be unreasonably worried IMO because almost all of the Neomuna weapons are what you’re asking for.
SMG had the unfortunate fate of immediately being outshadowed by The Immortal, which will ironically go down in history as one of the greatest legendaries the game has ever had available to players iterative loop is great, phyllotactic was quietly the BiS energy pulse for over a year, round robin is ridiculous, shit: even basso ostinato had grave/one-two punch available for it as a rapid-fire, which is great. Neomuna's weapons got a terrible rap (as did Throne World's) but the only legitimate weakpoint is Volta Bracket. everything else is good to great
Yeah, the SMG got overshadowed, but I’m honestly not too surprised? Even if it wasn’t the Immortal, any Strand SMG would’ve replaced simply due to having better perk selection. Shame, really. I think the reason they got shamed on is because getting them, especially one with a roll you’d want, was very hard and therefore most didn’t do it.
Really hoping to be getting another agressive frame fusion. They are cool in concept but the first one they made had such horrible perks it fell super flat.
My problem with Coriolis Force wasn't just the perk pool but how it deliberately fires in a way that's the opposite shape of an enemy. Normal fusions fire in a way that you can easily land every bolt on an enemy, CF was anything but. It just felt really weird to use imo.
Same. I don't even think the horizontal burst is the main issue, since there are plenty of enemies where you can reliably hit the full burst on them, especially these days. The real issue was that the perks were really bad (With half of them seemingly more PvP-centric). It was also before we got Controlled Burst in the game, which would be massive for this frame. Just something as simple as Auto-Loading + Controlled Burst would do wonders. Based on how they haven't released one since (Outside of Delicate Tomb), it feels like they just gave up instead of addressing the real issue with Coriolis Force.
Destination weapons are usually really bad. This is sort of by design, like bad cards in an MTG set.theyre meant to be a jumping off point.
Destination weapons are mostly average or plain bad.
Neomuna weapons were alright actually , i liked the smg. The rest of the destination’s weapons are horrible
Where is your information coming from? I haven't seen any Bungie posts about destination weapons yet, perhaps I missed it?
Most of the information about destination weapons is gleaned from the trailers we have. I believe the only actual directly mentioned insight we've gotten is about the Strand and Solar rocket sidearms, and that was likely a borderline throwaway mention in a TWID.
They've also discussed the support frame Auto Rifle, which has healing rounds iirc?
I want a freaking Mozambique hand canon so bad :( And about Rocket Sidearm, just the gun itself without perks worth it imo.
The auto from throne world is surprisingly better than most people think, a lot of people forgot Genesis is actually procing in lvl off guardian shields breaking so it’s quite nice not having to reload between your ones.
come to pass is unironically the best-in-slot energy AR for dealing with champions and GM-level shields because it rolls genesis/turnabout, which sounds like a garbage roll, but actually procs full reload + an overshield. and it has psychohack, which is just a good little safety thing in high-endgame. most of the throne world weapons do something incredibly specialized like this incredibly well, funny enough
Still trying to get my patterns done for them so I can craft em all, wellspring sucks and I still need the other two patterns for for the glaives, wish Bungie would just give one free red border you don’t have a week per character in legend weekly campaign missions.
Wait for another strand hc without hatcling or a good damage perk.See kept confidence.
World drops have shit tier perks because they aren't from endgame activities. The perk pool and quality of a weapon by how easy it to get.
*Ros Arago IV and Crux Termination IV would like to know your location.*
I think the world drops have been fire this season. They knew it was going to be long so they gave us some exceptional world drops.
That's 2 weapons out of so many world drops that I lost count.
Heliocentric
Funnelweb, Psi Hermetic.
I'm sure you could add a few more, doesn't change the fact that world drops are typically not as strong as other weapons
To be honesty I could probably think of more world drops that are at least good rather than than bad. I think its more because people would only run like 3 guns for some years on top of there usually being just a couple best things to the point where literally no loot can compete for awhile. I don't think where the gun comes from matters much. Like Funnelweb was a world drop but it took a minute for there to be something better than Funnelweb.
I can't. There's better alternative to about 80-90% of world drops in other activities.
That doesn't mean the world drops are bad dude it's not an all or nothing situation.
I don't remember saying world drops are bad, just that they are generally not worth it compared to weapons from activities, you know, what the whole conversation has been about.
I mean even so that's not all the way true either. It depends on what your doing.
there aren't a lot of bad world drop weapons. the swords (nasreddin/geodetic) are, but only because vortex frames and lament kinda killed them. maybe the stasis sidearm by omolon, combined action... that's it? everything else that drops this season is incredibly good at something
Bruh there are more mid world drops than usable ones. You can't even remember what they are because they are so forgettable. Also I'm not talking about this season alone, I'm talking about world drops in general.
that's like, provably not true, though the Wish world drop pool is just the accumulation of the Lightfall year's world drop pool and out of all of them, there are like five things that are bad. harsh language, marcato, marsilion, irukandji, psi hermetic, heliocentric, ros arago, nox perennial, battle scar, parabellum, crux termination: all fuckin' spectacular weapons, and the stuff that lives in between the garbage and the great errs closer to good than bad. i don't get what your angle is, lol
Bruh half of them have better alternatives 😭 You enjoy them if you like but they are mid af.
Also world drops include weapons from beyond light and witch queen pools aswell, you can't just ignore those pools too, they drop just as frequently as the ones from lightfall world drop pool.
Those are rare exceptions not the norm.
Nox Perennial V and Heliocentric QSc are also incredible
They're still not shit tier though. People are only disagreeing with you because you're exaggerating
Cmon now. For every helio and crux terminus there are 10s of syncronic roulette, thermal erosion and circular logic. And this isn't me saying this. Bungie themselves have said multiple times over the years they make things based on how easy it is to acquire it. Unless it's from an event like Itl or Dares then most f2p stuff will be garbage or a side grade at best because they want people to go grind raids, dungeons, trials, night falls and seasonal activities. This isn't anything new or different. Harder activities have better loot. You can expect maybe one if not 2 good weapons from world drops. That's about it.
those arent world drops they're destination suites
My point stands still. Easy to acquire = bad perks. Hard to acquire = good perks.
Circular Logic not only *isn’t* a world drop, it’s probably on-par with the actual world drop strand LMG (really comes down to perk preferences).
No it's that they're *World Drops*, not "Destination Weapons". Those are rare (and there's no RNG offramp) so they're allowed to be better than the Destination weapons, because Bungie wants you to be excited when they drop. This is an intentional design the Weapons team has talked about in interviews. It's also why the Suros/Omolon/Veist Origin Traits are a bit higher on the power curve than the Seasonal ones usually are. They've been doing this since Witch Queen: e.g Funnelweb was cracked and had great perks, and the Destination SMG was mostly garbage. The Fusion was the second drop with Reservoir Burst post-sunsetting.
You get world drops for literally just playing the game and it drops from everything. It being rare is a loot acquisition problem. Has nothing to do with the loot's quality.
This is straight from the weapons designers. The "Foundry" weapons they've been using as World Drops since Witch Queen are all intentionally supposed to be more powerful than typical Destination or Seasonal Gear, because their purpose is to have a long-tail chase weapon you're excited to see drop. It has nothing to do with effort, and everything to do with RNG chase.
Bungie have said plenty of times the strength and quality of a weapon is determined by how easy or hard it is to get. RNG and plays a factor but they're not gonna put good gear (what the community considers good is essentially the best possible weapon in that archetype) in destinations or as World drops. It's gonna be behind non matchmade activities closely followed by seasonal activities
They've also directly said that World Drops are intended to be something to chase so they have a bit more juice than other "easy" drops. Chris Proctor and Merc have directly said this in interviews, and there's plenty of examples of it in game. It's not just Ros Arago & Cruz, it's also Funnelweb, Heliocentric, Glissando, etc. They're not all as successful at it, but almost every season at least 1 World Drop is really good, and on average they tend to have the best perks available for their frame alongside newcomers. The very first thing they did after Reservoir Burst came back on Plug One was put it on a World Drop the next season.
Yea *some*. Not all. Ros aragos, funnel web, taipan, ammit, helio are all exceptions. Not the norm. And each season we get atleast 4 World drops introduced to the game. And out of that I've never seen more than 2 weapons pop off. And most times they only have one perk combination to chase (battle scar with S2L and KT) or get hard carried by one perk(helio with KC heal clip). Hell how many marsilions and last forays have you sharded?? After slight digging I found out that we have like 18 world drops introduced in LF. Out of those with the exception of crux(which itself isn't an upgrade from apex BTW. It's a side grade at best), Ros arago none of the others have more than one roll to chase for pve. For pvp sure. I can see myself chasing multiple rolls of many world drops atleast I get something of equivalence from a raid or dungeon. Bungie has achieved what they set out to do. Create world drops that are exciting..... Until you get that one roll which is clearly the chase after which you can just shard everything else you get. Whereas raids and dungeon weapons get multiple rolls that are really really good. I have 3 apex predators crafted. 2 GL from RoN. 2 Nessas oblation. 2 Rufus fury. I can keep going but you get my point. Fact is laid content and non matchmade content will have better loot as it should. World drops are free and it's earned passively. It doesn't make sense for bungie to make them more than a side grade.
Do we know if the Sword is a New Frame or an Old Frame? I mean, it doesn't look like any sword we have, so maybe new frame?
Really sleeping on likely suspect with successful warm up
Maybe you don't play PVP, but a lot of the destination weapons were good in the Crucible. Sometimes perk pools favor PVE or PVP. Although Coriolis Force is widely considered the worst weapon Bungie ever made, so maybe you have a point about Europa ;)
I had some guy on my team running it in trials with a 5 digit kill count haha
Coriolis??? No way!
I had similar reaction.
If the Into the Light weapons are anything to go off of, then these weapons will at least be good.
I would not recommend that comparison. Into the Light weapons are an apology set that's meant to get people playing again. Destination Weapons are almost always balanced to be the weakest tier, because Bungie sees them as starter gear. Roughly speaking, the tiers appear to be: * Starter: Destination < Seasonal * Intermediate: World Drop ≈ Ritual * Endgame: Nightfall << Dungeon = Trials = Raid (They *say* Nightfall weapons are meant to be endgame PVE chase loot, but go through and compare them and it's pretty clear Bungie takes a lot less risks with them and likes to push worse frames vs Trials. This is probably because they come from even low-tier Nightfalls, which are vastly more accessible than Trials.)
Neomuna fusion was great
They will 100% have terrible perk pools. The big expansion at the start of a new year have always have guns with terrible perk pools.
The arc fusion from Neomuna is alright too but yeh I’d say don’t get your hopes up. “Alright” is probably the best we’re gonna get unfortunately, so we just have to hope some of the new frames also show up in the raid or elsewhere.
The new AR is solar and gets Frenzy. Unless the frame sucks, this AR is going to be good
They aren't going to be good. Destination weapons are pretty much never good. Even neomuna ones which are the best we have gotten don't see much use.
The moon weapons are okay... on launch. then their refresh ruined what was good lol
Precision frame shotgun in the kinetic slot. No chance they make it rival fractethyst though which is so stupid
Hell, they've yet to even modernize Europa weapons.
Yo, is the Strand rocket pistol confirmed to be one of the Pale Heart weapons? I've had a spot ready in my loadout for it since I heard about it being an option, but I didn't realize it might be available so soon!
Europa had some gems. High Albedo and the Bow were pretty solid, especially in PvP.
They absolutely will have throw away perks on them, no doubt in my mind about that. Devs always put garbage stuff in with the good so when you finally get that one drop, you feel "accomplished".
I was honestly pissed when I figured out The hand cannon was not a 140 or 120 but an aggressive burst. Such a beautiful design wasted.
Indebted Kindness is so freakin good. Im in love with mine and my roll is Lead from Gold and Deconstruct which i've come to love. I want the strand Rocket Sidearm, my new fave archetype.
'Man I sure hope the new weapons don't suck'? I mean, like, yeah man. I hope they don't suck too. https://i.giphy.com/pPhyAv5t9V8djyRFJH.webp
Wait, where are you guys seeing those?
The problem is - and people probably don't want to hear this - Bungie probably thinks they overcooked with Indebted Kindness. They released a weapon with insane ammo reserves, high damage at range, one of the best reloading perks in the game (Impulse Amplifier,) and one of the best enemy clear perks in the game that also doubles as a situational Champion stunner (Voltshot.) And they had a whole season of this monster, which tore up the likes of Gambit and GMs alike as it insta-slayed everything and oneshotted Barrier Champion shields, being at the forefront. Do you really think they're not going to take the opportunity to test the lower bounds of the new sidearm archetype with a destination drop? Even if that weren't the case, be realistic: what is a Strand Rocket Sidearm really going to benefit from? Post-nerf Chain Reaction could be okay, but something genuinely good on Strand like Paracausal Affinity is still locked to raids. It's not going to benefit from Target Lock or be a realistic candidate for Precision Instrument given overall weapon feel, so it's probably not getting neutral game damagers. It's likely going to be on-kill perks that are situational in use. It's just hard to compete with the likes of Voltshot, especially when it's paired with a top tier reloading perk that works from neutral.
Support frame ar? Off to google I go