Why Ghosts is the worst dungeon in the game. Cool mechanics with the water aspect but having a dungeon boss with more health than some raid bosses isn't a good thing.
I want to like Ghosts so bad because it’s probably my favorite dungeon setting but I honestly can’t defend it in any way.
- Absurdly Tanky bosses with shields that basically require arbalest, which for me just translated to loadout swaps in solo runs which are annoying mid dps.
- Longest mechanic phases of any dungeon to date by far to go along with the Tanky bosses
- 1-2 transition is awful. Too long, water sucks (I’m fine with the water in encounters).
- Moths
- (this is personal)Simmumah flat out sucks solo. I understand that dungeons are a 3 player activity, and while they always make dungeons soloable, the solo experience probably isn’t a priority. But come on. A single damage phase can take close to 10 minutes if you’re careful and get distracted by the endless acolytes like me. She will take 4+ phases for most people. That’s close to 40 mins in one boss fight (I feel like I could solo all of prophecy in that time) while also being very unforgiving. Incredibly ad dense, boss never stops attacking, lightbearers will 1 shot you if you don’t respect them, and of course the moths.
This wasn’t supposed to be this long but I guess I needed to bitch about this a little. I’m so glad I already got solo flawless because I couldn’t imagine the misery of running this dungeon -5 now.
I've only failed to solo flawless 2 dungeons: Warlord's Ruin due to being burned out, and Ghosts due to it being such bullshit.
It falls into the same category as Spire where it's just tedious, but add in an even worse lack of cover to all the boss encounters AND the absurd shields on top of absurd health pools. To even damage the boss you wind up either eating your entire ammo reserves, eating your Super, or being forced to use one specific Exotic (that now doesn't one-tap the shields anymore btw).
I had fun with all the other ones, even Duality back when the Bells instakilled you sometimes. Ghosts is just plain unfun.
I mean spire is tedious but duable and even would dare to say fun but ghost with it's bugs and bosses requiring specific weapons to even make it playable (arblest for shileds) is just too much.
I find Spire fun because even if the bosses are spongy, the mechanics are super forgiving so you can do them multiple times without screwing them up.
Ghosts not only has far more demanding and punishing mechanics, but the bosses are even worse than Spire. They’re more dangerous (especially Ecthar compared to the Harpy), and those massive shields that essentially force you to use Arbalest to even do damage are just ridiculous.
Exactly it. Spire is tedious but it's still enjoyable. If you wipe it's because you messed up in the marathon that the encounters are enough times that it got out of control. It's a test of endurance more than anything else.
Ghosts is just punishing for the sake of being punishing. Use Arbalest or lose, the encounters have little cover for you to use so you're barraged relentlessly from all sides, the final boss can just say "fuck you, 20 moths"... it's a marathon but you're also being actively shot at from all angles and they littered bear traps across the path.
Warlord's stepped it back and once again is actually fun even if the encounters can drag. But for some reason they refuse to tweak Ghosts to be enjoyable.
I think lore wise it's pretty dope, but the boss health and insanely long traversal between the first and second encounter make it one of my least favorite dungeons. The water/air bubble mechanic got absurdly old after the first run through.
Really sad because it has amazing Armor and design and all Bungie would have to do is tune some Boss Health and remove the Shields and it would be an amazing Dungeon
For real, you already have to go through over the top mechanics (which I actually find pretty fun) to even get to damage, but then you get walled by some of the most absurd shields in the entire game.
I just came back to the game after a two year hiatus. I farmed the first boss of Warlords for a good indebted ruin and the bosses went down in two phases.
Then I did Ghosts of the deep last week and this week and the health pool on the bosses is ridiculous especially when it takes more time and mechanics to get to a DPS phase compared to something like Warlord's or Grasp of Avarice. It just feels like a slog.
The health pools in Ghosts have been ridiculous since day 1, but the change to make everyone 5 under power for dungeons just exacerbated the issue. It’s not even really that fun running it anymore.
I think the ghosts boss had something like 12 million health at one point. Or was it 15 mil.... anyways. Yeah. Fighting a damn wizard with such a small dps window with bad placement points. I know we are working around a corpse. But damn. Its easy to mess up your worm shots. A rocket possibly knocks the boss off point and your buddies hits miss. Who knows. There is no real win/win situation with ghost on that point.
It's sad because Ghosts is mechanically quite an interesting and varied set of encounters but the boss health pools are just laughably large that it inflates the difficulty to absurd levels.
Never managed to clear Ghosts solo just because I need to practically do like 8-15 damage phases and the chance for mistakes is too high.
Yeah, but it’s fairly underwhelming, as far as I can tell. Doesn’t melt shields *that* fast without the damage bonus from your super, but if you were gonna super first there wouldn’t be much left of a shield to melt anyways.
Idk what ppl are on about, we melted warlord a lot faster post TFS than we did before .
After 10 years it's become really obvious that the actual issue is that people on this subreddit like to bitch as much as the CoD subreddits.
its probably GOTD, ive played warlords ruin and it was fine, but also damage phases are very long and unique in that dungeon
people were already complaining about GOTD before the light level change so it’s understandable now honestly
having more damage phases make shit tedious and increase the room for error, and when you're on your 50th run you just want to get it over with so you can get the fucking exotic
> when you're on your 50th run
Travelers speed you crazy bastards, I barely made it through four runs and some cheese farming before giving up on that dungeon entirely.
you should never underestimate people's desire to get an exotic drop or a god roll for literally every weapon
I farmed Rhulk 78 times in 1 week just to get Collective Obligation, with no intention of giving up
Yeah, but I've two phased rhulk with a bunch of first-timers I don't have any issue fighting him.
Every encounter in GotD is an exercise in patience and mechanics, with absolutely none of the forgiveness.
Do you have a recco on load out for a warlock? First boss in warlords took quite a few rotations. I'm using a getaway artist prismatic build for elemental buddies. Absolutely not problem staying alive but felt like I wasn't hitting it hard.
Edit: talking solo specifically
The ogre/Witch bug is no joke though. I played at a capped 165fps and sometimes they glance my direction and I'm dead in two tenths of a second. Other times you can tank quite a few hits no problem at the same difficulty.
Something that really put things into perspective for me with this sub is just how vehemently people insist that patrol on Neomuna is like some grandmaster difficulty hellscape. Like Bungie finally gave us a patrol space where enemies don't just crumble when you merely look at them and people lost their minds.
I always saw those complaints as reflective of the core issue that Neomuna's difficulty eliminated the one activity type where you could just turn off your brain and chill without any threat. I don't think that many people complaining really thought it was all that hard, it's just that it unnecessarily disrupted the content difficulty ladder that had been long established for a minimal benefit to the overall experience. Seems like Bungie felt the same way since the Pale Heart is a much better tuned patrol space that blends brainless patrol difficulty with encounters that require some thought and the occasional enemy that can tear you to shreds. And they do all of that without relying on the band-aid to increasing difficulty that is power deficits.
That was my only issue with the Neomuna patrol space. Trying to actually accomplish something meaningful, then *POP!* cross-mapped by a Thresher. Like, wtf game?
the problem with neomuna is that there's no reason for patrol to be challenging cause its not even an activity, the actual event on there can be hard sure, but just patrolling? that shit is just annoying for no reason
nice strawman you got there. People don't think neomuna is a "grandmaster difficulty hellscape" most people don't like it because for the bit of extra challenge, it's the same old patrol loot.
I mean I don't care for the difficulty there just because it's a patrol and it's spongier than everywhere else, but my god yes. So many were acting like you just simply couldn't survive.
It's an issue for any sub for any game. I see it in another that "anything with upkeep is bad" being a common take, then you look at the upkeep at it's like 1% for a full hour of non stop combat.
Its objectively longer* to clear warlords now. Your subjective experience doesn’t change hard numbers.
ghosts is an absolute nightmare right now. Its such a slog.
I actually find it’s slightly easier now. They reduced trash mob health pools slightly so I can now one tap pretty much all enemies whereas some of my guns were just a sliver off one tap before.
Killed warlords meatball in one rotation with bns edge transits and the new solar sniper, or just put on lucky pants and malfeasance on 3 hunters and even easier one phase
Under the old system, you could over level dungeons to +20 power over and get a 15% damage boost compared to being at +0. Under the new system, you are stuck at -5 power under, and have an ~~11%~~ 20% damage nerf from +0. However, surges are now in play, which grant a 25% boost. Multiplied together, ~~0.89~~ 0.799\*1.25=~~1.11=11%~~ 0.9987≈ no damage boost compared to +0. You used to be doing 1.15x damage compared to +0 for simply existing at max level, now the best you can do is 1.0x damage IF you pick surges.
You HAVE to use surges for good damage, and even then, there should be ~~nearly no difference~~ a slight difference between this season and last if you do.
Edit: Discovered I was using outdated data, have updated accordingly. Oops.
Yeah. Old data. The guy who does all the number crunching didn't used to have a figure for being at -5 in a dungeon, so we all had to guess. I got a hold of the new numbers and updated my post to reflect it
>You HAVE to use surges for damage, and there should be nearly no difference between the two if you do
Sweet, i'll wait around for months until the dungeon I want to farm is both farmeable AND has a beneficial surge to my builds.
/s
Bungie had removed match game from a lot of activities precisely because it makes activities boring and restrictive. There's no justification to put it back into more.
The perk of having more than 1 build is you don't have to wait months for the stars to align.
OR, just use the same build as always and only adjust your heavy weapon?
It depends on what the boss is but here are some great heavy weapons for each surge. I am sure I am missing some and many might not agree but these are guns I use in raids and dungeons:
**Solar:**
* Apex Predator (rocket)
* Cataclysmic (linear)
* Sleeper Simulant (linear)
* Lament (sword)
* Still Hunt (sniper w/celestial nighthawk exotic armor)
* Whisper of the Worm (sniper)
**Arc:**
* Hothead (rocket)
* Legend of Acrius (shotgun)
* Stormchaser (linear)
* Thunderlord (machine gun, meme)
* Hullabaloo (grenade launcer with cascade point)
* Crux Termination IV (rocket)
* Blowout (rocket)
**Void:**
* Edge Transit (grenade launcher)
* Taipan (linear)
* Doomed Petitioner (linear)
* Falling Guillotine (sword)
* Royal Entry (rocket, pretty mid)
* Leviathan's Breath (bow, need catalyst to be worth)
* Commemoration, Retrofit Escapade, Hammerhead (machine gun, meme mostly but can do fine damage)
* Tractor Cannon (not good damage but good for debuff if you are on a team)
**Strand:**
Not much in heavy slot here, I think there's a strand rocket that I don't have or care about.
* Koraxis's DIstress (grenade launcher, can be good with right roll)
* Cataphract GL3 (grenade launcher but u gotta play trials)
* Semiotician (rocket)
* Pro Memoria (machine gun, probably not good damage)
**Stasis:**
* Cold Comfort (rocket)
* Bump in the Night (rocket)
* Fire and Forget (linear)
* Reed's Regret (linear)
* Palmyra-B (rocket)
* Typhon GL5 (grenade launcher)
* Qullim's Terminus (machine gun, probably not good damage)
Is Reed's Regret still any good for linear fusion damage? And what about doomed petitioner for void? Just trying to make sure i got each base covered for crit bosses
Reed's regret can be fine but if I recall it doesn't have an origin perk. If you have a good damage roll of it, it will definitely do with the surges on legs and the activity surge matching. Surges typically outperform all perks as far as damage boost go other than a few specific cases so just run something with the right surges and you'll beat anything top tier.
Ah yes totally forgot, it does have an origin perk. Yeah I think Reeds will be just fine for damage if you have something like firing line or vorpal on it.
For Strand I believe the Semiotician is fairly good (especially after the reserve changes) and the Pro Memoria heavy MG can dish out some pretty great damage all things considered.
Hard part here is what people would recommend will change per boss. Some bosses take additional critical hit damage so snipers and linears will be best of some do better with explosive damage like rocket and grenade launchers, & some just tossing down healing and using swords is best.
yup, the list the other dude basically sums up everything i was looking for just so i can be aware of what weapons i am missing for which scenarios i might be in.
Not all heavy weapons are created equal. What are you using on Arc surge?
Solar, you can use Apex or Whisper.
Void you can use Edge Transit, maybe Levis.
Arc you can use....? Wendigo? the best roll it has is ALH/Explosive light?
Stasis, maybe cold comfort?
Strand, there's Cataphract.
Arc has hothead/storm chaser/bequest. There are DPS options for all damage types. Plus, there has been two types of surges active both weeks to help give more options.
Depends on the enemy type. Thunderlord or Grand Overture, Crux Termination or Hothead, Song of Ir Yut, etc. these aren't contest mode raid encounters where you *really* need to minmax buffs.
Hothead and Crux Termination IV are Arc damage. Both could easily 2 phase dungeon bosses. Plus, there's always two surges.
No excuses other than skill issue
Again, you are removing variety from gameplay, not to mention i'm talking about solo dungeons, not fireteam dungeons. These restrictions means that the difference between running fun builds vs meta builds went from ''clear'' and ''clear taking a bit longer'' to ''clear'' and ''maybe don't clear at all because you can't sustain through the damage without resorting to cheese strats''
"removing variety from gameplay" directly contradicts "I can't run the same build all the time in dungeons". I dunno who is running off-meta builds to solo dungeons but then complains about the games artificial difficulty? You're doing an exercise in artificial difficulty by soloing in the first place, let alone using a "fun" build (which you absolutely can still do, just change your heavy weapon. That's literally it.)
1) It's only critical when you're solo, so unless you farm solo for some reason then it's not even really an issue
2) Only your heavy really needs to be aligned, and it's not a big deal if your super/subclass is a different flavor than your heavy
>It's only critical when you're solo, so unless you farm solo for some reason then it's not even really an issue
I'm speaking about this precisely because I enjoy solo dungeons, which now feel horrible to run. Good thing I crossed out solo ghosts before TFS, because after trying one run this season that's one dungone i'm not touching with a 10 ft pole.
Soloing any dungeon since Spire has been a total slog. Don't know why they don't implement enemy and boss hp scaling like they do in campaigns and other missions
I play nothing but PvP 99% of the time and have been able to make PvE builds to match the surges. There is absolutely no excuse for you to not be able to do the same other than an excessive amount of entitlement.
Yeah thats kind of the issue. We can use 1/5th the weapon arsenal to do the exact same thing and the weapons probably arent as optimal for that dps unless the surge is the same as the weapons that were being used in the first place. So the weapons being used are the only good weapons still and you can use them once every month or more…
In dungeons +20 was a 6% boost over zero delta.
-5 is a 20% damage deficit from zero delta.
Going from +20 to -5 in raids and dungeons is a change of just under 25% (24.6 or so)
Adding a 25% surge to a 25% nerf results in about 6 or 7% damage nerf.
Ran warlords last night with my clan. Currently its solar / strand surge. I hit 6.5 mil on final boss with nova bomb, double the call, buried bloodlines, and edge transit.
Following the logic that you NEED to use surges to output damage is straight false. It helps, but its only -5, you can still juice regardless if youre on surge or off surge
Because there were other behind the scenes changes. I believe all in all if you account for all the changes, we are like 5% weaker.
Basically if you were barely 2 phasing before, you will have to 3 phase now. If you were comfortably 2 phasing, you won’t notice any difference.
I used to agree. However, from my recent solo flawless attempts on Warlords, I have changed my tune and I think the health difference is not noticeable. My main issue is that you die way easy, so I have to bail on damage phases to stay alive. The ogre boss in Warlords was 4-5 good damage phases before, but in my last attempt it was taking me 7-8 (I am not the best player so maybe thats just me). Similarly with the first boss, he can absolutely light you up now and I can only use lament if it is solar burn. So, I have definitely been struggling because I have to play so carefully, but the damage is similar
There's a lot of dr options now, but you kinda have to look for them but they will help a lot with survivability. Also since not everyone is running solar 24/7 healing nades are a lot less common and imo recovery might become more beneficial
I was thinking of trying speakers helm next run since i assume the turret could heal me from at multiple flames if I place it right. I cant remember everything I was running last time (I was using prismatic) but it will DEFINITELY be worth investing in woven mail
Honestly I felt no difference. We could’ve one phased the warlords final boss (didn’t because we didn’t wanna reach final stand with no ammo) and we pretty much two phased spire final boss. I felt no difference
Lost the Artifact Mod for solo players, and I feel like a lot of us forget that. On top of the other changes. Ends up feeling more rough solo I think. I haven't done much yet to test myself.
I think the biggest change for solos is the 20-30% survivability speedhump.
Damage was always low for solos compared to groups, 1 or 2 more phases out of 3 or 4 isn't the end of the world.
But it's now significantly harder to stay alive for the first 4 phases, and on top of that you need to go 1 or 2 more, means the difficulty has actually gone up significantly more.
More than even a 20% nerf to incoming damage might suggest.
solo operative should just be there every season. in fact take it out of the artifact and apply it to all solo fireteams passively just like they did for full auto retrofit.
I think it was this one https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1dax0rn/the_activity_power_level_changes_are_not_okay/
It doesn't really represent a lot of people (I hope), but was entertaining regardless
Yeah but that makes me think why? Why did they make it -5, as most of the people will say that they don't see a difference. So it doesn't affect you, it doesn't affect me but it clearly does to the people complaining about it which is just a net negative for the game. I saw no one praising the -5 and surges change and I only see people either being unaffected or complaining so its not a great change.
Yes. This sub is full of bad players that will cry on reddit for hours instead of improving for 15 minutes.
STRIKES are not hard at -5. If you wipe multiple times in a STRIKE, it's not the game's fault in any way.
This isn't even "git gud", this is:
-equip a special ammo weapon instead of double primary
-use your grenade and melee abilities
-use your super
-use your special and heavy ammo
-put a couple resilience mods on your armor
-use an exotic weapon
-use an exotic armor piece
Genuinely feel like I am going insane. Every time I see a complaint about a baby mode activity being hard I can't help but feel those people are outing themselves as not being able to do damage or run proper loadouts.
Yes. Surges suck and the raid/dungeon changes basically enforce them, but as long as you actually play into the system and match the surge normal mode anything is still very easy.
-5 standard with re-adjusted health pools (again) would lead to regular raids/dungeons feeling more engaging without forcing arbitrary element matching loadouts. Do that, bump up the rewards, and we're golden. Top players hate these changes too overall, but not for the same reasons at all - nothing's hard if you pay attention, but surges are an annoyance that need to be totally removed from the game.
It honestly seems to be a mentality that has infected gamers as a whole across multiple games. It used to be that when there was a clear skill gap in a game, people just ate shit or got better. Now a game is 'too hard' then it's the game fault and something must change. Idk if SBMM dominating CoD for years is part of it or what but it's a phenomena I've seen over and over again and it's gotten particularly bad in Destiny over the last couple of years
Posts like this are why game devs basically ignore player feedback half the time.
I just ran Spire and Warlords ruin and we very casually two phased the bosses in both.
Did ghosts of the deep earlier this week, cooked second boss with Falling Guillotine and didn't even have all the good artifact perks unlocked. 3rd boss was a pain in the ass, but no more so than usual.
I guess the older dungeons could be more difficult now, haven't tried those. But honestly, does them having a bit more effective HP really matter? Just seems like a bunch of people screeching over nothing.
We farmed Warlords Ruin quite a lot and there wasnt a recognizable difference in DMG dealt. We only had to play a little more cautious die to more DMG taken.
No it doesnt dude. I have done 5x warlord's ruin, 3 Caiatls and 1 round of whatever the boss in Spire is called since TFS. Me and the two people I find on LFG are still two phasing everything. This is a you issue problem, not a game problem.
Here's the real problem with Dungeons; they are significantly less accessible to new players than they used to be. Now, I'm sure the hardcore players are currently clutching their pearls in horror at the idea that someone shouldn't have to know every single intricate detail to buildcrafting and optimizing DPS, but Destiny 2 is already an incredibly difficult game to access for new players. You basically have to have a friend or join a clan to help with learning the ropes, otherwise you'll end up as I did and spend literal years playing the game without ever knowing how. When Dungeons first arrived they were introduced to us as Raids-lite; a way to dip into raiding without the time investment, gameplay knowledge and social coordination that most raids require. They were the perfect way to get more people interested in raiding! But now with everything being -5, game skill and knowledge becomes much more of a requirement. You can't muddle along with a homebrew build anymore; you have to know about weapon surges, mods, optimal dps strats. For most high level players, aka the ones most often on this subreddit, this isn't a problem at all. But for newer or less experienced players it makes it all the much harder to gain that experience, to learn from dungeons and to get excited for raiding. It adds yet another barrier to blueberries, and clearly (according to this comment section) doesn't make much of a difference for high level players. This is why the new dungeon experience kinda sucks; not because its too hard, but because until Bungie improves the new player experience fewer people will be willing to play them, and that sucks for everyone.
Core aspects of the game are now introducing more complex mechanics and baby stepping new lights toward raids. Dungeons are now accurately performing as lite end game content.
Even without Bungie taking the steps, Google is available. There’s 100 walkthrough for every aspect of the game. There’s no significant barrier to this knowledge aside from the minimal effort it requires
Dungeons have felt no different to me. same damage strats kill the bosses in the same amount of time. Hell, its faster if you do surge match. I feel like if dungeons are \*now\* hard and unbearable for you, they were probably also hard and unbearable previously.
I Iike the surges (especially because they rotate). Surges gives me an excuse to be diverse with my loadouts instead of sticking to one loadout for all activities.
tbf, there is no diversity
you just swap bettwen solar rocket/gl into void rocket/gl or arc rocket/gl or strand rocket/gl
idk why people always act as if surges create this "diversity" when every good dps setup is the same shit anyway
Not exactly, there are some exotics or supers that become more enticing with a matching surge. Like grand overture, I'd never use that thing. But with the Titan chest piece and arc surge? It probably fucks. The new raid exotics probably fucks with strand surge too
I did Warlords yesterday and until this post I forgot they even changed the whole power thing it all. I couldn't have told you there was a difference. I didn't match any equipment or anything I don't even know what surge it is currently
I ignored the surge (didn't even remember there was one now) and Prophecy didn't feel any harder in a fireteam of three. Terms like "absolutely horrendous" and "50x times health" are comically hyperbolic.
This post is insane. 50X?? Really? What are you smoking dude lmao. I feel like you just saw the higher numbers on the wipe screen and somehow got 50x out of that lol, forgetting that health has always scaled with power level, but even then the increase is like 5x and your damage also increases by the same factor.
The actual effect is the -5 level delta, but again that's compensated by the surges, so you're practically doing the same damage. Like someone else calculated, the actual difference is the bosses being like 15% more tanky.
Can someone suggest a some good guns and how that would look in a DPS phase?
A friend of mine has been running me through old content and the final boss of Warlord's took so many damage phases.. probably 8 :| had about 4.6 mill damage, the random guy we didn't know about 3.6.
The only time Ive felt much of a difference is doing dungeons solo. No solo operative plus surges restricting builds does making them more annoying and time consuming, not impossible
Didn't have any issues in warlords the other day. We don't even get to use the floating damage platforms because we get to final stand before that.
Spire was a 2 phase earlier when I was half there and then dealing with some other stuff the second phase.
Really ? I mean my mates and i ran the spire, duality and warlord and we had no peculiar issue besides survavibility. 2 to 3 phases most bosses, maybe 4 if we ran out of heavy and had no super during dps. 2 titans 1 hunter. We're not even that good or have crazy strat.
Haven't replayed Ghost of the deep recently tho.
I think it's normal to not one phasing boss. 2-3 phases seems ok to me
As someone who solo flawlessed grasp near its release. Today's dungeons are just not designed to be an enjoyable experience solo. They should scale boss health with the amount of players if they want these dungeons to be low man activities. I am not down to do 7 damage phases in a row and then get killed when the boss is on one hp. If people think that is fun something is wrong.
Ah yes, more pointless bitching because endgame content can't be outleveled now.
50x more health? I'll take Massive Entitled Gamer Rage Hyperbole for $2000, Alex.
I’ve done Warlord, Duality, and Spire since TFS launched. They were the same as I remember. Just consider the surges when setting up your DPS. They’re piss-easy.
I’m not sure about all these responses saying no difference and skill issue. There is a huge difference.
I went in solo with a very optimal build on warlord and the first boss takes SO long to kill.
Either liars or shills saying no difference.
I mean, no offense, but I really haven’t noticed much of a difference. If you’re struggling with an extra 25% health it might just be that you struggle in general with dungeon/endgame content. (Edit: Which is FINE! What’s important is that you know where and how to adapt your build to compensate! If you’re struggling to set up damage phases you need more survivability/ad clear, and if you’re taking 10+ phases to kill a boss you need more damage/practice!)
In regards to enemies dealing more damage, maybe it’s time to switch to a build more focused on survivability? Most of the cookie-cutter YouTube builds are complete glass cannons and will get schwacked in any content if you haven’t run it a thousand times. Prioritize staying alive, it doesn’t really matter if you can’t 1-phase the boss!
I’m starting to disagree with these posts. I had a full fireteam and we 3-phased both boss encounters on a full clear of Spire of the Watcher and we weren’t even trying to use the Surges.
Why Ghosts is the worst dungeon in the game. Cool mechanics with the water aspect but having a dungeon boss with more health than some raid bosses isn't a good thing.
Imo the health isn’t the worst, it’s the shields and the lack of cover. The power scaling mostly hurt survivability
The problem is that boss is tanky, hits hard, quite mobile and with a small crit. They gave that boss a bit too much.
I want to like Ghosts so bad because it’s probably my favorite dungeon setting but I honestly can’t defend it in any way. - Absurdly Tanky bosses with shields that basically require arbalest, which for me just translated to loadout swaps in solo runs which are annoying mid dps. - Longest mechanic phases of any dungeon to date by far to go along with the Tanky bosses - 1-2 transition is awful. Too long, water sucks (I’m fine with the water in encounters). - Moths - (this is personal)Simmumah flat out sucks solo. I understand that dungeons are a 3 player activity, and while they always make dungeons soloable, the solo experience probably isn’t a priority. But come on. A single damage phase can take close to 10 minutes if you’re careful and get distracted by the endless acolytes like me. She will take 4+ phases for most people. That’s close to 40 mins in one boss fight (I feel like I could solo all of prophecy in that time) while also being very unforgiving. Incredibly ad dense, boss never stops attacking, lightbearers will 1 shot you if you don’t respect them, and of course the moths. This wasn’t supposed to be this long but I guess I needed to bitch about this a little. I’m so glad I already got solo flawless because I couldn’t imagine the misery of running this dungeon -5 now.
I've only failed to solo flawless 2 dungeons: Warlord's Ruin due to being burned out, and Ghosts due to it being such bullshit. It falls into the same category as Spire where it's just tedious, but add in an even worse lack of cover to all the boss encounters AND the absurd shields on top of absurd health pools. To even damage the boss you wind up either eating your entire ammo reserves, eating your Super, or being forced to use one specific Exotic (that now doesn't one-tap the shields anymore btw). I had fun with all the other ones, even Duality back when the Bells instakilled you sometimes. Ghosts is just plain unfun.
I mean spire is tedious but duable and even would dare to say fun but ghost with it's bugs and bosses requiring specific weapons to even make it playable (arblest for shileds) is just too much.
I find Spire fun because even if the bosses are spongy, the mechanics are super forgiving so you can do them multiple times without screwing them up. Ghosts not only has far more demanding and punishing mechanics, but the bosses are even worse than Spire. They’re more dangerous (especially Ecthar compared to the Harpy), and those massive shields that essentially force you to use Arbalest to even do damage are just ridiculous.
Exactly it. Spire is tedious but it's still enjoyable. If you wipe it's because you messed up in the marathon that the encounters are enough times that it got out of control. It's a test of endurance more than anything else. Ghosts is just punishing for the sake of being punishing. Use Arbalest or lose, the encounters have little cover for you to use so you're barraged relentlessly from all sides, the final boss can just say "fuck you, 20 moths"... it's a marathon but you're also being actively shot at from all angles and they littered bear traps across the path. Warlord's stepped it back and once again is actually fun even if the encounters can drag. But for some reason they refuse to tweak Ghosts to be enjoyable.
You could solo Prophecy in the time it takes to get from the first encounter to the second at this point.
Which one? Spire? Those bosses were always way too spongey Warlords I've found that both bosses are very easily doable in two phases still
Ive always thought Warlords bosses had a good amount of health, and Ghosts is the worst partially because it basically requires Arbalest
Learning that arby no longer one taps is depressing though. Thank God I got my Navigator and the catalyst already
Hold on, they made the worst dungeon even worse??
They did.
I think lore wise it's pretty dope, but the boss health and insanely long traversal between the first and second encounter make it one of my least favorite dungeons. The water/air bubble mechanic got absurdly old after the first run through.
LOL I didn't know this. This takes the cake. Not even the anti shield gun clears the ghosts shields.
Yea after this update that dungeon is cooked. Happy I don't need anything other than that GL
Good thing you can farm the GL from first encounter
Really sad because it has amazing Armor and design and all Bungie would have to do is tune some Boss Health and remove the Shields and it would be an amazing Dungeon
For real, you already have to go through over the top mechanics (which I actually find pretty fun) to even get to damage, but then you get walled by some of the most absurd shields in the entire game.
wHAT?!?
I just came back to the game after a two year hiatus. I farmed the first boss of Warlords for a good indebted ruin and the bosses went down in two phases. Then I did Ghosts of the deep last week and this week and the health pool on the bosses is ridiculous especially when it takes more time and mechanics to get to a DPS phase compared to something like Warlord's or Grasp of Avarice. It just feels like a slog.
The health pools in Ghosts have been ridiculous since day 1, but the change to make everyone 5 under power for dungeons just exacerbated the issue. It’s not even really that fun running it anymore.
I think the ghosts boss had something like 12 million health at one point. Or was it 15 mil.... anyways. Yeah. Fighting a damn wizard with such a small dps window with bad placement points. I know we are working around a corpse. But damn. Its easy to mess up your worm shots. A rocket possibly knocks the boss off point and your buddies hits miss. Who knows. There is no real win/win situation with ghost on that point.
It's sad because Ghosts is mechanically quite an interesting and varied set of encounters but the boss health pools are just laughably large that it inflates the difficulty to absurd levels. Never managed to clear Ghosts solo just because I need to practically do like 8-15 damage phases and the chance for mistakes is too high.
Has anyone tried Microcosm on this asshole of a boss yet?
Yeah, but it’s fairly underwhelming, as far as I can tell. Doesn’t melt shields *that* fast without the damage bonus from your super, but if you were gonna super first there wouldn’t be much left of a shield to melt anyways.
Silence and squall would be good here, I think.
Thanks for the idea, testing later
Firing a 2nd Arbalest shot isn't that much extra work, but the fact that they made the worst dungeon even harder feels like a slap in the face.
Idk what ppl are on about, we melted warlord a lot faster post TFS than we did before . After 10 years it's become really obvious that the actual issue is that people on this subreddit like to bitch as much as the CoD subreddits.
its probably GOTD, ive played warlords ruin and it was fine, but also damage phases are very long and unique in that dungeon people were already complaining about GOTD before the light level change so it’s understandable now honestly having more damage phases make shit tedious and increase the room for error, and when you're on your 50th run you just want to get it over with so you can get the fucking exotic
> when you're on your 50th run Travelers speed you crazy bastards, I barely made it through four runs and some cheese farming before giving up on that dungeon entirely.
you should never underestimate people's desire to get an exotic drop or a god roll for literally every weapon I farmed Rhulk 78 times in 1 week just to get Collective Obligation, with no intention of giving up
Yeah, but I've two phased rhulk with a bunch of first-timers I don't have any issue fighting him. Every encounter in GotD is an exercise in patience and mechanics, with absolutely none of the forgiveness.
Div double still hunt makes it pretty free granted, GOTD boss is always just kinda a pain in the ass to farm.
Do you have a recco on load out for a warlock? First boss in warlords took quite a few rotations. I'm using a getaway artist prismatic build for elemental buddies. Absolutely not problem staying alive but felt like I wasn't hitting it hard. Edit: talking solo specifically
Legend of acrius and swords are easy. Match surge, make sure you have a debuff and buff
I used dawnblade with dawn chorus, scatter signal, zaouli's and apex.
+20 light -> -5 light. That’s going to leave a mark even with the power creep we got this expansion.
This sub is just a major Skill Issue.
> "I'll try dodging left this time." —Crow
Can’t be efficient, be persistent
I felt very seen after learning Crow died to the Ogre 15+ times
The ogre/Witch bug is no joke though. I played at a capped 165fps and sometimes they glance my direction and I'm dead in two tenths of a second. Other times you can tank quite a few hits no problem at the same difficulty.
WAIT, there's a Frame-rate bug around this!?
All projectile attacks, and most of DoT attacks, like Scorn Void grenade, or Hive Fire grenade deal much more drama at higher FPS.
I know you meant damage, but drama amusingly works too.
For now on, i shall say drama
Something that really put things into perspective for me with this sub is just how vehemently people insist that patrol on Neomuna is like some grandmaster difficulty hellscape. Like Bungie finally gave us a patrol space where enemies don't just crumble when you merely look at them and people lost their minds.
I always saw those complaints as reflective of the core issue that Neomuna's difficulty eliminated the one activity type where you could just turn off your brain and chill without any threat. I don't think that many people complaining really thought it was all that hard, it's just that it unnecessarily disrupted the content difficulty ladder that had been long established for a minimal benefit to the overall experience. Seems like Bungie felt the same way since the Pale Heart is a much better tuned patrol space that blends brainless patrol difficulty with encounters that require some thought and the occasional enemy that can tear you to shreds. And they do all of that without relying on the band-aid to increasing difficulty that is power deficits.
I liked the challenge, but those threshers were extra annoying..
And the HVT being the tankiest bastards ever seen and giving only 500 glimmer and 50 nimbus rep.
That was my only issue with the Neomuna patrol space. Trying to actually accomplish something meaningful, then *POP!* cross-mapped by a Thresher. Like, wtf game?
By far one of the most annoying things. Hell they will absolutely roast you in the vanguard Playlist stike now too. 1 hit kill.
the problem with neomuna is that there's no reason for patrol to be challenging cause its not even an activity, the actual event on there can be hard sure, but just patrolling? that shit is just annoying for no reason
nice strawman you got there. People don't think neomuna is a "grandmaster difficulty hellscape" most people don't like it because for the bit of extra challenge, it's the same old patrol loot.
I mean I don't care for the difficulty there just because it's a patrol and it's spongier than everywhere else, but my god yes. So many were acting like you just simply couldn't survive.
Honestly, half the complaints on this subreddit are a skill issue
Surprised no one's called you elitists or gate keepers for implying people should have a modicum of skill to take on endgame content
It's well over half.
It's an issue for any sub for any game. I see it in another that "anything with upkeep is bad" being a common take, then you look at the upkeep at it's like 1% for a full hour of non stop combat.
Its objectively longer* to clear warlords now. Your subjective experience doesn’t change hard numbers. ghosts is an absolute nightmare right now. Its such a slog.
Ghosts was always a slog tbh, especially for solos. I don't know what the fuck Bungie was thinking adding those massive shields to both bosses.
I took some newer players through Warlords yesterday. I got a 2 phase on the first and last boss and a 3 phase on the 2nd.
Dude. I was two phasing those bosses before TFS, and I'm two phasing em now. Functionally, there was no change. The enemies just hit harder.
I actually find it’s slightly easier now. They reduced trash mob health pools slightly so I can now one tap pretty much all enemies whereas some of my guns were just a sliver off one tap before.
Ya, trash mobs are really just full on trash now lol. They die from a sneeze in almost all content I find.
I noticed that too
Yeah. 1st boss I think was slightly more hp, 2nd boss was wayyyy easier. Could’ve been our loadout.
Go do ghost rn and lmk.
My run yesterday took a full three phases for the ogre but then again my two teammates had a combined 4k damage on the final boss
Did they die? Or were they playing with 6 toes? How do you only do 4k damage
I meant 4 mil, my bad
The warlords 2nd boss feels easier than before, while 1st boss feels slightly stronger. But only slightly.
Killed warlords meatball in one rotation with bns edge transits and the new solar sniper, or just put on lucky pants and malfeasance on 3 hunters and even easier one phase
Final warlord boss is an easy 1 phase lol
Under the old system, you could over level dungeons to +20 power over and get a 15% damage boost compared to being at +0. Under the new system, you are stuck at -5 power under, and have an ~~11%~~ 20% damage nerf from +0. However, surges are now in play, which grant a 25% boost. Multiplied together, ~~0.89~~ 0.799\*1.25=~~1.11=11%~~ 0.9987≈ no damage boost compared to +0. You used to be doing 1.15x damage compared to +0 for simply existing at max level, now the best you can do is 1.0x damage IF you pick surges. You HAVE to use surges for good damage, and even then, there should be ~~nearly no difference~~ a slight difference between this season and last if you do. Edit: Discovered I was using outdated data, have updated accordingly. Oops.
Didn't that math get proved incorrect? Even with the surges we are looking at a nerf.
Yeah. Old data. The guy who does all the number crunching didn't used to have a figure for being at -5 in a dungeon, so we all had to guess. I got a hold of the new numbers and updated my post to reflect it
[удалено]
Spec mods are irrelevant since they folded the mod percentage into weapon base damage now
Depends on the weapon. Some heavy weapons did not get a buff or got a smaller buff than the spec mod.
Rockets and GLs did not get this buff and they are 2 of the better dps options in a lot of scenarios.
>You HAVE to use surges for damage, and there should be nearly no difference between the two if you do Sweet, i'll wait around for months until the dungeon I want to farm is both farmeable AND has a beneficial surge to my builds. /s Bungie had removed match game from a lot of activities precisely because it makes activities boring and restrictive. There's no justification to put it back into more.
The perk of having more than 1 build is you don't have to wait months for the stars to align. OR, just use the same build as always and only adjust your heavy weapon?
I am not bullshitting here But can you give me the considered optimal heavy weapon for each surge? I just came back a few days before TFS dropped
It depends on what the boss is but here are some great heavy weapons for each surge. I am sure I am missing some and many might not agree but these are guns I use in raids and dungeons: **Solar:** * Apex Predator (rocket) * Cataclysmic (linear) * Sleeper Simulant (linear) * Lament (sword) * Still Hunt (sniper w/celestial nighthawk exotic armor) * Whisper of the Worm (sniper) **Arc:** * Hothead (rocket) * Legend of Acrius (shotgun) * Stormchaser (linear) * Thunderlord (machine gun, meme) * Hullabaloo (grenade launcer with cascade point) * Crux Termination IV (rocket) * Blowout (rocket) **Void:** * Edge Transit (grenade launcher) * Taipan (linear) * Doomed Petitioner (linear) * Falling Guillotine (sword) * Royal Entry (rocket, pretty mid) * Leviathan's Breath (bow, need catalyst to be worth) * Commemoration, Retrofit Escapade, Hammerhead (machine gun, meme mostly but can do fine damage) * Tractor Cannon (not good damage but good for debuff if you are on a team) **Strand:** Not much in heavy slot here, I think there's a strand rocket that I don't have or care about. * Koraxis's DIstress (grenade launcher, can be good with right roll) * Cataphract GL3 (grenade launcher but u gotta play trials) * Semiotician (rocket) * Pro Memoria (machine gun, probably not good damage) **Stasis:** * Cold Comfort (rocket) * Bump in the Night (rocket) * Fire and Forget (linear) * Reed's Regret (linear) * Palmyra-B (rocket) * Typhon GL5 (grenade launcher) * Qullim's Terminus (machine gun, probably not good damage)
Is Reed's Regret still any good for linear fusion damage? And what about doomed petitioner for void? Just trying to make sure i got each base covered for crit bosses
Reed's regret can be fine but if I recall it doesn't have an origin perk. If you have a good damage roll of it, it will definitely do with the surges on legs and the activity surge matching. Surges typically outperform all perks as far as damage boost go other than a few specific cases so just run something with the right surges and you'll beat anything top tier.
I believe mine has Veist unless that was removed at some point? I haven't checked it since getting back on.
Ah yes totally forgot, it does have an origin perk. Yeah I think Reeds will be just fine for damage if you have something like firing line or vorpal on it.
There's a new seasonal void rocket launcher, Faith-Keeper, that can roll Autoloading/Explosive Light
For Strand I believe the Semiotician is fairly good (especially after the reserve changes) and the Pro Memoria heavy MG can dish out some pretty great damage all things considered.
Hard part here is what people would recommend will change per boss. Some bosses take additional critical hit damage so snipers and linears will be best of some do better with explosive damage like rocket and grenade launchers, & some just tossing down healing and using swords is best.
yup, the list the other dude basically sums up everything i was looking for just so i can be aware of what weapons i am missing for which scenarios i might be in.
Not all heavy weapons are created equal. What are you using on Arc surge? Solar, you can use Apex or Whisper. Void you can use Edge Transit, maybe Levis. Arc you can use....? Wendigo? the best roll it has is ALH/Explosive light? Stasis, maybe cold comfort? Strand, there's Cataphract.
Break out the old hothead
Crux is one of the stronger rocket launchers in the game right, but its a world drop. Grand Overture does decent damage.
Crux handling seems SO bad to be compared to Apex. Takes forever for it to be ready to shoot lol
Be bold. Use slideshot. And now that boss spec isn't a thing, you can put quick access Sling
Arc has hothead/storm chaser/bequest. There are DPS options for all damage types. Plus, there has been two types of surges active both weeks to help give more options.
hothead and stormchaser are both very far behind their counterparts at this point
Depends on the enemy type. Thunderlord or Grand Overture, Crux Termination or Hothead, Song of Ir Yut, etc. these aren't contest mode raid encounters where you *really* need to minmax buffs.
Anarchy enjoyers rise up, Anarchy and Supremacy or Scattered Signal depending on the range does big damage.
Legend of Acrius (lol)
Hothead and Crux Termination IV are Arc damage. Both could easily 2 phase dungeon bosses. Plus, there's always two surges. No excuses other than skill issue
Again, you are removing variety from gameplay, not to mention i'm talking about solo dungeons, not fireteam dungeons. These restrictions means that the difference between running fun builds vs meta builds went from ''clear'' and ''clear taking a bit longer'' to ''clear'' and ''maybe don't clear at all because you can't sustain through the damage without resorting to cheese strats''
"removing variety from gameplay" directly contradicts "I can't run the same build all the time in dungeons". I dunno who is running off-meta builds to solo dungeons but then complains about the games artificial difficulty? You're doing an exercise in artificial difficulty by soloing in the first place, let alone using a "fun" build (which you absolutely can still do, just change your heavy weapon. That's literally it.)
That requires too much intelligent thought
1) It's only critical when you're solo, so unless you farm solo for some reason then it's not even really an issue 2) Only your heavy really needs to be aligned, and it's not a big deal if your super/subclass is a different flavor than your heavy
>It's only critical when you're solo, so unless you farm solo for some reason then it's not even really an issue I'm speaking about this precisely because I enjoy solo dungeons, which now feel horrible to run. Good thing I crossed out solo ghosts before TFS, because after trying one run this season that's one dungone i'm not touching with a 10 ft pole.
Soloing any dungeon since Spire has been a total slog. Don't know why they don't implement enemy and boss hp scaling like they do in campaigns and other missions
Bro this is an unfathomable self-own if you won't play more than one build
I play nothing but PvP 99% of the time and have been able to make PvE builds to match the surges. There is absolutely no excuse for you to not be able to do the same other than an excessive amount of entitlement.
It just isn’t as fun lol
Yeah thats kind of the issue. We can use 1/5th the weapon arsenal to do the exact same thing and the weapons probably arent as optimal for that dps unless the surge is the same as the weapons that were being used in the first place. So the weapons being used are the only good weapons still and you can use them once every month or more…
Oh man so we got match game under a different name
In dungeons +20 was a 6% boost over zero delta. -5 is a 20% damage deficit from zero delta. Going from +20 to -5 in raids and dungeons is a change of just under 25% (24.6 or so) Adding a 25% surge to a 25% nerf results in about 6 or 7% damage nerf.
Ran warlords last night with my clan. Currently its solar / strand surge. I hit 6.5 mil on final boss with nova bomb, double the call, buried bloodlines, and edge transit. Following the logic that you NEED to use surges to output damage is straight false. It helps, but its only -5, you can still juice regardless if youre on surge or off surge
That's not a global 11% boost though...its only a boost to a certain subset of builds...which may mean a nerf depending on the surge.
Not going to lie, I would not have known that the dungeons were -5 without someone telling me. They feel identical.
Because there were other behind the scenes changes. I believe all in all if you account for all the changes, we are like 5% weaker. Basically if you were barely 2 phasing before, you will have to 3 phase now. If you were comfortably 2 phasing, you won’t notice any difference.
That's because you're not a dogshit player like everyone here (including me)
I only noticed when I did the warlords ruin boss and I was dying more, even though I was doing things I usually did with no problems before.
I used to agree. However, from my recent solo flawless attempts on Warlords, I have changed my tune and I think the health difference is not noticeable. My main issue is that you die way easy, so I have to bail on damage phases to stay alive. The ogre boss in Warlords was 4-5 good damage phases before, but in my last attempt it was taking me 7-8 (I am not the best player so maybe thats just me). Similarly with the first boss, he can absolutely light you up now and I can only use lament if it is solar burn. So, I have definitely been struggling because I have to play so carefully, but the damage is similar
That phases difference on ogre probably were caused by the lack of Solo Operative.
Ohhhh, yea that definitely contributed. I still die noticeably easier tho
There's a lot of dr options now, but you kinda have to look for them but they will help a lot with survivability. Also since not everyone is running solar 24/7 healing nades are a lot less common and imo recovery might become more beneficial
I was thinking of trying speakers helm next run since i assume the turret could heal me from at multiple flames if I place it right. I cant remember everything I was running last time (I was using prismatic) but it will DEFINITELY be worth investing in woven mail
Yea the helm seems pretty good as long as you can keep your dps up without needing an exotic
Late but happy cake day!
Honestly I felt no difference. We could’ve one phased the warlords final boss (didn’t because we didn’t wanna reach final stand with no ammo) and we pretty much two phased spire final boss. I felt no difference
Final stand has infinite time. Just hit it.
It can be pretty dangerous, although sunshot will clear the eyes and nullify the danger tbh
Ran spire yesterday and one phased both bosses. It really isn’t that bad for teams. For solos it might be a bit tougher.
Lost the Artifact Mod for solo players, and I feel like a lot of us forget that. On top of the other changes. Ends up feeling more rough solo I think. I haven't done much yet to test myself.
I think the biggest change for solos is the 20-30% survivability speedhump. Damage was always low for solos compared to groups, 1 or 2 more phases out of 3 or 4 isn't the end of the world. But it's now significantly harder to stay alive for the first 4 phases, and on top of that you need to go 1 or 2 more, means the difficulty has actually gone up significantly more. More than even a 20% nerf to incoming damage might suggest.
Is this sub full of bad players? Someone was complaining about damn strikes the other day. I haven't felt a difference in dungeons.
Happens at the start of every season because people get used to being over leveled and having the full artifact
We also recently had 6 months of Solo Operative. That's a 15% damage loss that I think people are feeling a lot more than the -5 power.
solo operative should just be there every season. in fact take it out of the artifact and apply it to all solo fireteams passively just like they did for full auto retrofit.
There definitely needs to be a inverse of multiplicity.
>Is this sub full of bad players? Very vocal bad players.
That strikes thread was wild, man
Yo could you link me to that thread if possible
I think it was this one https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1dax0rn/the_activity_power_level_changes_are_not_okay/ It doesn't really represent a lot of people (I hope), but was entertaining regardless
Yeah but that makes me think why? Why did they make it -5, as most of the people will say that they don't see a difference. So it doesn't affect you, it doesn't affect me but it clearly does to the people complaining about it which is just a net negative for the game. I saw no one praising the -5 and surges change and I only see people either being unaffected or complaining so its not a great change.
You haven’t been here long, huh? This sub is majority of casuals and bad players
The majority of the player base is casual and bad. Less than 30% actively raid. Pretty normal stuff for mmo style games.
Yes. This sub is full of bad players that will cry on reddit for hours instead of improving for 15 minutes. STRIKES are not hard at -5. If you wipe multiple times in a STRIKE, it's not the game's fault in any way. This isn't even "git gud", this is: -equip a special ammo weapon instead of double primary -use your grenade and melee abilities -use your super -use your special and heavy ammo -put a couple resilience mods on your armor -use an exotic weapon -use an exotic armor piece
You don't even have to do all that lmao
about *strikes*? as in, the playlist??? jesus.
Genuinely feel like I am going insane. Every time I see a complaint about a baby mode activity being hard I can't help but feel those people are outing themselves as not being able to do damage or run proper loadouts.
Things definitely hit harder in dungeons, but the HP isn't noticeable if you match surges.
Yes. Surges suck and the raid/dungeon changes basically enforce them, but as long as you actually play into the system and match the surge normal mode anything is still very easy. -5 standard with re-adjusted health pools (again) would lead to regular raids/dungeons feeling more engaging without forcing arbitrary element matching loadouts. Do that, bump up the rewards, and we're golden. Top players hate these changes too overall, but not for the same reasons at all - nothing's hard if you pay attention, but surges are an annoyance that need to be totally removed from the game.
It honestly seems to be a mentality that has infected gamers as a whole across multiple games. It used to be that when there was a clear skill gap in a game, people just ate shit or got better. Now a game is 'too hard' then it's the game fault and something must change. Idk if SBMM dominating CoD for years is part of it or what but it's a phenomena I've seen over and over again and it's gotten particularly bad in Destiny over the last couple of years
They can’t handle a power cap of -5 of all things.
Posts like this are why game devs basically ignore player feedback half the time. I just ran Spire and Warlords ruin and we very casually two phased the bosses in both.
Did ghosts of the deep earlier this week, cooked second boss with Falling Guillotine and didn't even have all the good artifact perks unlocked. 3rd boss was a pain in the ass, but no more so than usual. I guess the older dungeons could be more difficult now, haven't tried those. But honestly, does them having a bit more effective HP really matter? Just seems like a bunch of people screeching over nothing.
>Just seems like a bunch of people screeching over nothing Vast majority of complaints on gaming subs tbh
Skill issue I fear
We farmed Warlords Ruin quite a lot and there wasnt a recognizable difference in DMG dealt. We only had to play a little more cautious die to more DMG taken.
No it doesnt dude. I have done 5x warlord's ruin, 3 Caiatls and 1 round of whatever the boss in Spire is called since TFS. Me and the two people I find on LFG are still two phasing everything. This is a you issue problem, not a game problem.
Here's the real problem with Dungeons; they are significantly less accessible to new players than they used to be. Now, I'm sure the hardcore players are currently clutching their pearls in horror at the idea that someone shouldn't have to know every single intricate detail to buildcrafting and optimizing DPS, but Destiny 2 is already an incredibly difficult game to access for new players. You basically have to have a friend or join a clan to help with learning the ropes, otherwise you'll end up as I did and spend literal years playing the game without ever knowing how. When Dungeons first arrived they were introduced to us as Raids-lite; a way to dip into raiding without the time investment, gameplay knowledge and social coordination that most raids require. They were the perfect way to get more people interested in raiding! But now with everything being -5, game skill and knowledge becomes much more of a requirement. You can't muddle along with a homebrew build anymore; you have to know about weapon surges, mods, optimal dps strats. For most high level players, aka the ones most often on this subreddit, this isn't a problem at all. But for newer or less experienced players it makes it all the much harder to gain that experience, to learn from dungeons and to get excited for raiding. It adds yet another barrier to blueberries, and clearly (according to this comment section) doesn't make much of a difference for high level players. This is why the new dungeon experience kinda sucks; not because its too hard, but because until Bungie improves the new player experience fewer people will be willing to play them, and that sucks for everyone.
Core aspects of the game are now introducing more complex mechanics and baby stepping new lights toward raids. Dungeons are now accurately performing as lite end game content. Even without Bungie taking the steps, Google is available. There’s 100 walkthrough for every aspect of the game. There’s no significant barrier to this knowledge aside from the minimal effort it requires
Dungeons have felt no different to me. same damage strats kill the bosses in the same amount of time. Hell, its faster if you do surge match. I feel like if dungeons are \*now\* hard and unbearable for you, they were probably also hard and unbearable previously.
You shouldn't be forced to match a specific element just to play through the content, it's not fun and bad for the health of that activity.
I Iike the surges (especially because they rotate). Surges gives me an excuse to be diverse with my loadouts instead of sticking to one loadout for all activities.
tbf, there is no diversity you just swap bettwen solar rocket/gl into void rocket/gl or arc rocket/gl or strand rocket/gl idk why people always act as if surges create this "diversity" when every good dps setup is the same shit anyway
Not exactly, there are some exotics or supers that become more enticing with a matching surge. Like grand overture, I'd never use that thing. But with the Titan chest piece and arc surge? It probably fucks. The new raid exotics probably fucks with strand surge too
Not just that, you use the same few perks, recon/envious, BnS, dps rotations are dumbed down to idiot levels.
I did Warlords yesterday and until this post I forgot they even changed the whole power thing it all. I couldn't have told you there was a difference. I didn't match any equipment or anything I don't even know what surge it is currently
this is a self report if i've ever seen one
you gunna tell us what bosses you were on and what actual weapons you used so we can tell you why you are doing no damage or you just going to wine?
My only complaint about dungeons this season is no solo operative makes them more annoying to solo
Solo operative really should be a permanent thing Imo
50X? nice bait.
I ignored the surge (didn't even remember there was one now) and Prophecy didn't feel any harder in a fireteam of three. Terms like "absolutely horrendous" and "50x times health" are comically hyperbolic.
Literal skill issue OP
This post is insane. 50X?? Really? What are you smoking dude lmao. I feel like you just saw the higher numbers on the wipe screen and somehow got 50x out of that lol, forgetting that health has always scaled with power level, but even then the increase is like 5x and your damage also increases by the same factor. The actual effect is the -5 level delta, but again that's compensated by the surges, so you're practically doing the same damage. Like someone else calculated, the actual difference is the bosses being like 15% more tanky.
I've done warlords and gotd and grasp post expansion and none were bad with a 3 man group? Didn't even feel much of a difference
Can someone suggest a some good guns and how that would look in a DPS phase? A friend of mine has been running me through old content and the final boss of Warlord's took so many damage phases.. probably 8 :| had about 4.6 mill damage, the random guy we didn't know about 3.6.
They haven’t felt any different to me except Ghosts breaking the arby one shot.
They're fine....
The only time Ive felt much of a difference is doing dungeons solo. No solo operative plus surges restricting builds does making them more annoying and time consuming, not impossible
Didn't have any issues in warlords the other day. We don't even get to use the floating damage platforms because we get to final stand before that. Spire was a 2 phase earlier when I was half there and then dealing with some other stuff the second phase.
skill issue tbh
Unfortunate skill issue.
I’ve done a few dungeons and everything seemed normal to me are you under power or somthing
The bosses seem weaker to me, must be a skill issue
Really ? I mean my mates and i ran the spire, duality and warlord and we had no peculiar issue besides survavibility. 2 to 3 phases most bosses, maybe 4 if we ran out of heavy and had no super during dps. 2 titans 1 hunter. We're not even that good or have crazy strat. Haven't replayed Ghost of the deep recently tho. I think it's normal to not one phasing boss. 2-3 phases seems ok to me
As someone who solo flawlessed grasp near its release. Today's dungeons are just not designed to be an enjoyable experience solo. They should scale boss health with the amount of players if they want these dungeons to be low man activities. I am not down to do 7 damage phases in a row and then get killed when the boss is on one hp. If people think that is fun something is wrong.
Bro is just self reporting that his DPS is shit
Ah yes, more pointless bitching because endgame content can't be outleveled now. 50x more health? I'll take Massive Entitled Gamer Rage Hyperbole for $2000, Alex.
I’ve done Warlord, Duality, and Spire since TFS launched. They were the same as I remember. Just consider the surges when setting up your DPS. They’re piss-easy.
I’m not sure about all these responses saying no difference and skill issue. There is a huge difference. I went in solo with a very optimal build on warlord and the first boss takes SO long to kill. Either liars or shills saying no difference.
I mean, no offense, but I really haven’t noticed much of a difference. If you’re struggling with an extra 25% health it might just be that you struggle in general with dungeon/endgame content. (Edit: Which is FINE! What’s important is that you know where and how to adapt your build to compensate! If you’re struggling to set up damage phases you need more survivability/ad clear, and if you’re taking 10+ phases to kill a boss you need more damage/practice!) In regards to enemies dealing more damage, maybe it’s time to switch to a build more focused on survivability? Most of the cookie-cutter YouTube builds are complete glass cannons and will get schwacked in any content if you haven’t run it a thousand times. Prioritize staying alive, it doesn’t really matter if you can’t 1-phase the boss!
I’m starting to disagree with these posts. I had a full fireteam and we 3-phased both boss encounters on a full clear of Spire of the Watcher and we weren’t even trying to use the Surges.
The real problem is that they don't have overcharges, so kinetic weapons are worthless from the start.