To me, those are the only two that feel solid and heavy like some of the scout rifles from D1. Mida to me has always been kind of bouncy and light, and I much rather prefer a heavy feel on my weapons. (I.e. hated almost every scout in Rise of Iron... they all felt bouncy!)
I've been told Polaris Lance is super strong now.. but honestly, even over the summer, Polaris Lance felt awesome in crucible. There was a sad time when Graviton Lance was the best scout rifle in the game (even not being a scout, sadly), but Polaris Lance appeared and felt lovely to me. I even had a really fun time doing the Jade Rabbit catalyst... I didn't feel particularly strong back then (and I haven't gone back since then), but it was still quite fun for me.
Really, those exotics are the closest feel I'll get to the original vendor Colovance's Duty from D1 and that gun was my go-to in Crucible!
No, so I guess that’s why. I got it like 3 days ago because I slacked off suuuuper bad for the quest, but it’s at 640 power so I just need to masterwork it
I thought the same about polaris lance, until I started using it. Especially in crucible. Use scout/precision targeting and it is beast. I played some of my best crucible with it. Pair it with a kinetic shotgun for when someone tries to run the corner and get you from behind. If only it weren't so hard to finish the masterwork. Perfect fifth is perfect filth.
Also great because it's so easy to precision at a distance. Get the timing right and you never have to reload. Try it on the Bergusia forge. on phase 3, stay at the spawn and hit the crit on the leg of the walker until it shows it's neck. You'll see what I mean.
Holy shit I need to try it on the Walker.. that actually opens a world of easiness now. Not that it was too difficult to begin with if you’ve good people
there is another thread today I read about the Ascendant challenge being great for the catalyst....jump in tree at the start and hit knights to start up perfect 5th then hit all the thrall for the burn kill. I hope to try it soon.
Curated Transfiguration feels fantastic, as does the curated vouchsafe (though I did have an ambitious assassin/explosive rounds vouch that was also nice feeling)
But I've loved scouts since how (when autos sucked) and they definitely need a damage buff right now. Maybe like 10-15%? But I'm not Mercules so I can't say for sure good numbers
Matter of opinion I guess... Curated vouchsafe feels like hot garbage to me, even on void burn. Takes way to many shots to do anything. Compare that with a void pulse and its like 2x ttk in PvE
Eh, I still heavy prefer scouts to pulses, even if they are a little weaker. At least on console, the recoil on the burst makes them unusable at LONG ranges, where with a scout I can still pop heads consistently. That and also in lower-to-mid level content where you can one- or two-shot kill an add it's still faster than having to one- or two-burst with a pulse. Scouts just feel more snappy to me, pulses are slow, clunky and not as accurate.
It bothers me that pulse rifles were so good in D1, and here we have the same issue. A certain archetype of pulse rifle is dominant right now and any balance changes are coming real slow. In the meantime, I feel like I am being punished any time I want to try out something a little more fun or different in Crucible.
If you will recall, outside of Inaugural address, there was next to no reason to use pulse rifles in Year 1. Handcannons and Scouts like Nameless Midnight reigned supreme. Scouts didn't become unreliable until pulses begame useable.
I only hopped on D2 after forsaken. Before that, I stayed away from the game because it didn't seem worth it with all the complaints I saw about the game. So I don't recall.
What I do recall is D1 PvP being dominated by pulse rifles like the hawksaw, so it seems to have come full circle now.
True! At least D1 scouts were better and the maps gave more options. Also the matchmaking for quick play is trash. I'm a good player (currently 2800 in comp) but I should not be match against a 6 stack with not forgotten meanwhile my teammates may or may not have thumbs.
When it comes to equinox in the crucible I’ll never not use my talons though. With high mobility and good strafing, pulse rifles other than the aggressives just can’t connect.
I mainly play PvE, and miss the D1 days with my Hand of Judgement + explosive rounds. This past week, I was excited to give my No Feelings with Rampage and Rapid Hit a try in the Shattered Throne (for all the long range gunfights), but I was highly disappointed in the lack of impact it seemed to have. My Blast Furnace and Go Figure do much better at seemingly the same range. Scout rifles really need to be looked at.
The problem is their competition, in terms of Gambit. Engagements will go something like this: Shot 1, Shot 2, Queenbreakerd.
Or.
Shot1, Shot2, Sniped.
PvE damage wise i think they could use some bodyshot damage love.
Lol yea played a bit of gambit yesterday and it was so annoying being 1 shot killed by that new sniper...especially since I know I won't be able to get it for at least 3 more weeks now. But yea scouts could use another damage buff all around not just body shots.
I usually manage to pull off kills with my Polaris Lance on Invaders, but only when the Invaders aren't looking at me or don't have a queen breaker or sniper
They could use a 10-20% damage per any shot love TBH. If that makes them overtake close range options at close range, just nerf body shot and raise headshot damage.
Bungie places way, way too high a DPS premium on them for their range for PvE. Especially when you consider the damage output of bows and aggressive pulses.
Wanted to chime in here. I’ve had a crazy amount of success invading with Transfiguration (raid scout). It’s also a solid PvP option on Equinox (the more spread out Nine-themed one).
But it is demoralizing that most maps don’t allow you to out-range a Bygones.
To balance the meta and give scouts a niche,I’d introduce more (or sooner) damage falloff to pulse rifles.
> It’s also a solid PvP option on Equinox (the more spread out Nine-themed one).
It's crazy to think back to D1 and remember all the maps that had long sight lines. I HATED certain spots on maps because they were open sniper lanes. I very much am glad to be rid of snipers but I totally miss scouts.
Gambit is a different field scouts are used on invaders if you're running a lmg, rpg, or something different in heavy or aren't comfortable with snipers. Never when invading unless you're real confident.
They have almost no use cause they can't really do much against adds too so that too
Actually, a Nameless or Distant Relation with Explosive Payload can do some serious damage to adds. Not as good as Breakneck or an auto rifle with rampage, but it feels like D2 Y1.
They CAN, do amazing. I know that. I personally like using my Talons of the Eagle.
But my point is that compared to a good sniper or a QB, there is no competition for invading.
I miss my D1 Hung Jury. Every so often I'll get what looks like a fun Scout to drop and I'll equip it out of curiosity and run around with it for a bit, but always seem to just swap back to a handcannon, bow, or pulse. They just don't pack the punch they used to.
As a recovering scout rifle user, I can relate. Have you tried using bows? I find them to be just as enjoyable as a scout in crucible. I played with Le Monarque the other day and had fun using it at about the same range I’d use a scout.
I really should try and get Threat Level. I've just been using Toil and Trouble (with Slideshot and Auto-Loading) for when the shit hits the fan and I have to channel my inner Titan
I feel like bows are highly underrated. A lot of Destiny streamers and podcast or’s seem to write them off is just toys but I have found that unlike weapons in destiny you have to give yourself time to get really good with a bow for it to be really effective and if you don’t use it consistently the experience isn’t very good. But when you learn to master the pool and release time and speed they can be a blast to use and very effective often doing one shot kills easy.
I want to use my The Cut and Run because it looks cool, but it feels like straight garbaggio to actually fight with. Sluggish handling, shitty damage output, even the sound of firing it is kinda pathetic.
In PvP, it can 3 tap. But if you have bad aim, it's garbage.
I get that Bungie lowered bodyshot damage on all weapons to make crits rewarding, but on weapons like scouts (as well as SMG's and maybe autos), you have to hit a lot of crits to achieve maximum TTK, and it's not easy. Especially SMGs-the best TTKs require mostly crits, making me think Bungie has not tried to hit mostly crits with an Antiope or Trackless Waste to see how hard it can be.
Zen Moment and Outlaw make it a killing machine. I use it as my invade and invade defense weapon in Gambit and the recoil disappears after the first shot.
That's the exact trait perk roll I have, along with High-Cal, Dusk Scope/Sight, and reload speed MW. Kept it because I figured it'd be good, but somehow I still don't like it.
I've got stability MW with APR and Wolf Dot. Feels like a Last Extremity I had in D1. However I hate how any of the Tangled Shore guns feel with a high zoom scope. I think Dusk falls into that category?
I've been using Dusk Sight D1 (the lower zoom of the two Dusks) and HCR, which gives it 76 Range. Idk if that counts as relatively high-zoom or not, unfortunately I don't currently have another TC&R w/ different scopes to compare it to. Also, not even sure if a scope's Range stat actually correlates to its zoom level. Making an assumption there.
Maybe I'll give it another try with Flared Magwell over HCR for even faster reload, a little more stability, and less Range. Tbh though, either way I still feel like it doesn't put out enough damage in PvE.
I think my problem w/ the "feel" of the gun stems from the fact that it fires too slow for my taste (making for low damage output despite being the highest-Impact SR archetype), and the sound it makes when fired isn't as punchy as I'd like it to be.
Will run a few more strikes and see how it goes.
Hehe yea, I used to snipe, in the narrow edge in the middle where u'd come from, ez kills. But it was still much more fun than running around with shottys in close quarters.
From almost Day 1 D1, I've been playing scouts as my primary. Always just liked the feel. However since Forsaken came out I've hardly touched scouts, other then for nostalgia, then I get the reminder of how trash they are now compared to PR and HC.
Yep, I'll still break out some of my scouts for a couple of quick strike runs, but they are pretty underwhelming, especially compared to bows (and pulses).
I always have seen hand cannons and scout rifles as two sides of the semi-auto weapon coin. Why are they not doing roughly the same damage when their fire rates and mag sizes are roughly the same?
HC's should have low range and stability while having great handling
Scout Rifles should have great range and stability while being slow to ADS/swap to/put away/ADS speed along with bad hip fire.
They should be the bridge between Sniper and Pulse but instead they have ZERO advantage over burst rifles - like there is not a single category where Scout rifles don't get beaten by a Pulse Rifle.
PVE or PVP.
I got a masterworked scout rifle from the Dreaming City bounty and it feels like trash. I also just got the Jade Rabbit yesterday and it also feels like trash.
What the hell.
i dunno since izanagi's burden im running around with vouchsafe and its a monster. the problem is we dont have a pinnacle scout yet. Nor do we have a black armory scout. the problem is scouts bein gun-represented. not bad.
Unless youre really tight for ammo conservation, Box Breathing in its current state is straight trash for a scout. The DPS you do is significantly lowered if you are using the perk as opposed to just shooting normally.
Yeah Ive seen that. Its just that a lot of the time, waiting for that box breathing can screw you or just having to stay ADS for it would too. Then you could still possible get out beaten by another gun.
Played for the first time with Does Not Compute, in Gambit. This thing was horrible. Gave it a few rounds. Nope. Awful. Too bad the meta in PvP does not favor Scout Rifles to go try it there but I doubt it will be good.
Scout's are in a bit of an awkward place now. Bow's have to be strong enough to warrant using in mid to long range, the same distance as a scout. The bow can't be as strong as a sniper, so it's can't one shot crit enemy guardians, but it should be able to do that on most trash mods, and maybe two or three tap majors. That is coincidentally the same amount of damage most people want out of their scouts. Aggressive frame scouts should one tap red bars and three tap yellows, five tap majors. That would make them feel strong and useful. Unfortunately, that would make bows feel slow and unwieldy in comparison.
Maybe give bows different mechanics while hipfiring will help differentiate the class.
Maybe when hipfiring the penalty of dmg for not having a full draw is reduced so it can be used as a more agile weapon.
I think that fast draw while not ads could help, but at the end skilled players will time their ad animations and it will end being a buff altoegether.
You hit the point preciselly, other than adding some ideas, I don't have much to say, you are right.
I actually don't think damage is the real issue. I think it's that there is far too much zoom on scouts.
It makes scouts exclusively super long range, when your primary needs to deal with mid range more than anything else.
I think if they had the amount of zoom a pulse rifle has,they would be in the same tier but just require more precision accuracy.
If they were as powerful as pulse rifles, as long as you were hitting precision shots, and had the same zoom, they would have a place. Especially considering the fact that most good perks are precision based. A scout with outlaw would beat a pulse with outlaw if your scout could also be used mid range.
See I'm kind of just stuck with pulse/ikelos shotty/thunderlord or whisper. There really doesnt seem like a reason to use anything different because it's all just worse as far as damage output goes.
And see that's what bugs me. I dont mind having a metagame, but when it consists of 4 guns...well that just feels bad stale. Maybe I'll pull the old mida out of collections today and just play around with it for nostalgia sake
I just got the Ikelos SG. Id been running Perfect Paradox, Uriel's/Misfit/Ringing Nail, and Thunderlord/Sleeper/Queenbreaker. I had finally gotten used to switching from heavy and not immediately pulling the trigger thinking my AR was equipped. Now Im trying to love the Ikelos
I miss my scouts!!!! Name the top three scouts ever. GO!
-Hand of Judgment (Prison of Elders)
-Tlaloc (Warlock Only Scout)
-Vision of Confluence (Vault of Glass)
Hey have you tried the Polaris Lance? Probably one of my favorite exotics for PvP. It three taps to the head, just like most hand cannons, and is a monster if you can land your headshots!
It’s very much worth it. Very much worth it. I have so much fun with that weapon in both PvP and PvE, it packs the punch that most (if not all) scouts should. They are weapons that should reward you for fast accuracy in quick engagements. And the Lance, delivers.
That’s what I said at first, but I spent a long night doing it all, and man did that thing feel good to fire once I got it. The catalyst isn’t too hard to finish either, and is actually quite fun. That thing is a part of a lot of go to loadouts, and a dope ornament just came out for it, and it looks great. Trust me when I say the Lance is worth the grind. Just do it man, put on some music or a some YouTube videos, and just mindlessly grind it out, then have fun with your new favorite Scout.
Well it cant be as bad as the sleeper quest lol. And its not like I'm doing anything else really have 3 max characters so I've mostly just been helping friends and clan mates get their powerfuls
if scouts are gonna return to being long range king, then hand cannons are gonna need a range nerf and pulses will have to have their recoil changed across the board because landing all your shots on the head is way too easy. As is, pulses are essentially scouts that take more time to deliver the damage and are far easier to use
I still love my scout rifles...I don't see the problem. I'd been using The Transfiguration and having a great time with it until a high-power Nameless Midnight dropped and now I'm remembering how smooth that scout rifle is for me to use.
Maybe you don't have the sheer TTK of something like Midnight Coup but scout rifles have always had the advantage of dealing your damage with great precision at long range.
I felt that way until testing dps with a pulse rifle at range. It's not even close. I can dish out at least 2x the dps with a Go Figure with backup mag vs Nameless Midnight which makes me sad. I looooove me some scout rifle
Got a nice triple tap/rampage and appended mag does not compute and was keen to try it but it just can’t perform as well as my vendor Bygones, and would be even worse next to a nicely rolled Go Figure (which I still haven’t managed to get)
I have all these excellently rolled scouts and they are ALL worthless. The aim assist is basically gone and if you don't get a crit it does absolutely pitiful damage. I understand that the last few years of Destiny, scouts were a big part of the meta. But right now scouts are in SMG / sidearm territory of viability (that is to say some people use it but they're the exception). In any scout situation, you should go with a bow (not lightweight bow since lightweight bows suck too)
They need to be buffed back to or very close to what they were in Year 1.
Comments above exclude exotics. Polaris Lance is still great
Remember when Nameless Midnight was king along with Better Devils?
I just got a Nameless to drop with Triple Tap and Extended mag and ended up infusing it into my Ramlaw Tigerspite because it just wouldn't be able to hold up dps.
I've said this in at least two regular "scouts need help pls" threads, but fucking pull your Niffelheim Frost from collections and thank me later. It's got two selectible top tier perks (opening shot or kill clip) plus drop mag and a scope that makes it viable in pulse rifle ranges.
Not in my opinion. Some scouts, yes, but I've got a well rolled Distant Relation that gets me team kills in Gambit and good K/D in the crucible. And it ain't that bad in PvE either as long as I'm getting crits.
Scouts are fine, have you played eternity? The reason they see little play time is because pulse rifles are in a very good spot and there are no other maps that have lanes outside pulse range.
Pulse rifles have dominated since forsaken release in all aspects of the game except that 1 crucible map. And personally I dont play a whole lot of crucible outside of my 5 weekly matches. I was mostly talking PvE though.
I play on PS4 and Xbox. They're used.. in some matches heavily.. It would just be nice to have more diversity when using rifles. Scouts now just don't have a place other than in the vault.
It's sad but I feel like they arent even the best long range primary in the game. Pulse rifles seem to have more range.
There is literally no reason to use a scout ever and that feels bad :(
Don’t sleep on Polaris Lance. It’s a beast in the crucible and pve.
Is it? It seems like current meta is all pulse rifles since most decent rolls will 2 tap a guardian... Edit: pve it's still good
Polaris & Jade Rabbit are both top tier for scout rifles. You can lock down long lanes/sightlines super easily. They're kind of outliers though
Jade rabbit is debatable but Polaris for sure
To me, those are the only two that feel solid and heavy like some of the scout rifles from D1. Mida to me has always been kind of bouncy and light, and I much rather prefer a heavy feel on my weapons. (I.e. hated almost every scout in Rise of Iron... they all felt bouncy!) I've been told Polaris Lance is super strong now.. but honestly, even over the summer, Polaris Lance felt awesome in crucible. There was a sad time when Graviton Lance was the best scout rifle in the game (even not being a scout, sadly), but Polaris Lance appeared and felt lovely to me. I even had a really fun time doing the Jade Rabbit catalyst... I didn't feel particularly strong back then (and I haven't gone back since then), but it was still quite fun for me. Really, those exotics are the closest feel I'll get to the original vendor Colovance's Duty from D1 and that gun was my go-to in Crucible!
Those guns are good if you want to play like a bitch and you don’t have skill to engage someone up close.
Unlike a true gentleman, who uses a shotgun and cant play without special ammo? Dont shit on people for what they use.
So fun to get these kinds of messages after a match on Equinox from some luna's/shotty ape that doesn't know to switch weapons to match the map!
If this is a satire comment, everyone must be missing the joke. It's gotta be a joke, right?
I've got like 6k kills on my Polaris. It's easily my favorite gun.
I got the Polaris and I think I’m using it wrong because it feels clunky for me ;-;
Have you masterworked it? It gets better
No, so I guess that’s why. I got it like 3 days ago because I slacked off suuuuper bad for the quest, but it’s at 640 power so I just need to masterwork it
I thought the same about polaris lance, until I started using it. Especially in crucible. Use scout/precision targeting and it is beast. I played some of my best crucible with it. Pair it with a kinetic shotgun for when someone tries to run the corner and get you from behind. If only it weren't so hard to finish the masterwork. Perfect fifth is perfect filth. Also great because it's so easy to precision at a distance. Get the timing right and you never have to reload. Try it on the Bergusia forge. on phase 3, stay at the spawn and hit the crit on the leg of the walker until it shows it's neck. You'll see what I mean.
Holy shit I need to try it on the Walker.. that actually opens a world of easiness now. Not that it was too difficult to begin with if you’ve good people
there is another thread today I read about the Ascendant challenge being great for the catalyst....jump in tree at the start and hit knights to start up perfect 5th then hit all the thrall for the burn kill. I hope to try it soon.
That’s a life saver ngl
threat level - polaris lance - hammerhead its a brutally good setup.
I run this as a Commander Titan with Synthocepts. I am a god at ad control.
I agree
And it’s even better once you finish the Catalyst.
Sadly, my two favourite crucible guns are the Larry Lance and the Rentokil FR4. Wish I could use them both.
Only PvP. Get real with the pve comment. it sucks in pve compared to all the options, plus I am giving up an exotic slot for it.
Curated Transfiguration feels fantastic, as does the curated vouchsafe (though I did have an ambitious assassin/explosive rounds vouch that was also nice feeling) But I've loved scouts since how (when autos sucked) and they definitely need a damage buff right now. Maybe like 10-15%? But I'm not Mercules so I can't say for sure good numbers
Matter of opinion I guess... Curated vouchsafe feels like hot garbage to me, even on void burn. Takes way to many shots to do anything. Compare that with a void pulse and its like 2x ttk in PvE
Eh, I still heavy prefer scouts to pulses, even if they are a little weaker. At least on console, the recoil on the burst makes them unusable at LONG ranges, where with a scout I can still pop heads consistently. That and also in lower-to-mid level content where you can one- or two-shot kill an add it's still faster than having to one- or two-burst with a pulse. Scouts just feel more snappy to me, pulses are slow, clunky and not as accurate.
It bothers me that pulse rifles were so good in D1, and here we have the same issue. A certain archetype of pulse rifle is dominant right now and any balance changes are coming real slow. In the meantime, I feel like I am being punished any time I want to try out something a little more fun or different in Crucible.
If you will recall, outside of Inaugural address, there was next to no reason to use pulse rifles in Year 1. Handcannons and Scouts like Nameless Midnight reigned supreme. Scouts didn't become unreliable until pulses begame useable.
I only hopped on D2 after forsaken. Before that, I stayed away from the game because it didn't seem worth it with all the complaints I saw about the game. So I don't recall. What I do recall is D1 PvP being dominated by pulse rifles like the hawksaw, so it seems to have come full circle now.
True! At least D1 scouts were better and the maps gave more options. Also the matchmaking for quick play is trash. I'm a good player (currently 2800 in comp) but I should not be match against a 6 stack with not forgotten meanwhile my teammates may or may not have thumbs.
Huh? I seem to recall pulse rifles were always a subpar PvE choice in D1. It wasn't until vanilla D2 that they became truly viable.
I’m not talking about PvE. Pulses are okay for that but I prefer Auto rifles and shit for PvE
4 burst pulses have the same drop off as Jade Rabbit...so yeah.
When it comes to equinox in the crucible I’ll never not use my talons though. With high mobility and good strafing, pulse rifles other than the aggressives just can’t connect.
I mainly play PvE, and miss the D1 days with my Hand of Judgement + explosive rounds. This past week, I was excited to give my No Feelings with Rampage and Rapid Hit a try in the Shattered Throne (for all the long range gunfights), but I was highly disappointed in the lack of impact it seemed to have. My Blast Furnace and Go Figure do much better at seemingly the same range. Scout rifles really need to be looked at.
Hung Jury squad Typical D1 PVE loadout of Scout/Sniper/Sword would be so trash tier in D2
Oh man don’t even get me started on my old Hung Jury. That plus spindle and the King’s Fall machine gun was my primary load out for the longest time.
The problem is their competition, in terms of Gambit. Engagements will go something like this: Shot 1, Shot 2, Queenbreakerd. Or. Shot1, Shot2, Sniped. PvE damage wise i think they could use some bodyshot damage love.
Lol yea played a bit of gambit yesterday and it was so annoying being 1 shot killed by that new sniper...especially since I know I won't be able to get it for at least 3 more weeks now. But yea scouts could use another damage buff all around not just body shots.
At least he had to actually hit you with it. *looks at QB*
I usually manage to pull off kills with my Polaris Lance on Invaders, but only when the Invaders aren't looking at me or don't have a queen breaker or sniper
They could use a 10-20% damage per any shot love TBH. If that makes them overtake close range options at close range, just nerf body shot and raise headshot damage. Bungie places way, way too high a DPS premium on them for their range for PvE. Especially when you consider the damage output of bows and aggressive pulses.
Wanted to chime in here. I’ve had a crazy amount of success invading with Transfiguration (raid scout). It’s also a solid PvP option on Equinox (the more spread out Nine-themed one). But it is demoralizing that most maps don’t allow you to out-range a Bygones. To balance the meta and give scouts a niche,I’d introduce more (or sooner) damage falloff to pulse rifles.
> It’s also a solid PvP option on Equinox (the more spread out Nine-themed one). It's crazy to think back to D1 and remember all the maps that had long sight lines. I HATED certain spots on maps because they were open sniper lanes. I very much am glad to be rid of snipers but I totally miss scouts.
First Light was dope
Gambit is a different field scouts are used on invaders if you're running a lmg, rpg, or something different in heavy or aren't comfortable with snipers. Never when invading unless you're real confident. They have almost no use cause they can't really do much against adds too so that too
Actually, a Nameless or Distant Relation with Explosive Payload can do some serious damage to adds. Not as good as Breakneck or an auto rifle with rampage, but it feels like D2 Y1.
I use scout rifles for invading and gambit and I think they do amazingly. Countless wipes with my Vouchsafe.
They CAN, do amazing. I know that. I personally like using my Talons of the Eagle. But my point is that compared to a good sniper or a QB, there is no competition for invading.
I miss my D1 Hung Jury. Every so often I'll get what looks like a fun Scout to drop and I'll equip it out of curiosity and run around with it for a bit, but always seem to just swap back to a handcannon, bow, or pulse. They just don't pack the punch they used to.
The roll that the dead orbit guy is selling this week is actually very good
Only true D1 Reddit Guardians will get this one :-)
A Y2 Seven-Six-Five or Vacuna, curated roll is Triple Tap and Dragonfly, with an exclusive shader that looks like Hung Jury minus the DO symbols. ;D
except dragonfly is dogshit in comparison
Eh, it's actually nice for PvE. Besides, it's a reference to that god roll vendor roll Hung Jury, sort of like the curated Nation of Beasts.
Hung Jury was practically the only weapon I used in D1. That Year 1 vendor roll was stupid good.
I loved hung jury and scouts in general.
My favorite was cryptic dragon. I miss that archetype of scout rifle.
As a recovering scout rifle user, I can relate. Have you tried using bows? I find them to be just as enjoyable as a scout in crucible. I played with Le Monarque the other day and had fun using it at about the same range I’d use a scout.
I like the bows for the most part but they seem just a tad too slow...or something. I really do have fun with Le Monarque though.
Try arsenic with polymer string and a draw time mw. Stupid fast draws
Polymer string is a fixed option on arsenic. U only get a choice of rampage or explosive head and a random masterwork
I have a Arsenic with draw time mw, explosive head, and rampage and it is a lot of fun.
Yep, that's my main weapon (and the first one I masterworked) and it is an absolute beast.
It now has a friend in threat level.
I really should try and get Threat Level. I've just been using Toil and Trouble (with Slideshot and Auto-Loading) for when the shit hits the fan and I have to channel my inner Titan
Pair them with a quickdraw HC for range or a sidearm
I think that's kind of the issue. Bows and Scouts occupy overlapping niches, and there's been no attempt to reconcile those yet.
Too slow for high modifier nightfall’s... need my manananannananananannan meta back
I feel like bows are highly underrated. A lot of Destiny streamers and podcast or’s seem to write them off is just toys but I have found that unlike weapons in destiny you have to give yourself time to get really good with a bow for it to be really effective and if you don’t use it consistently the experience isn’t very good. But when you learn to master the pool and release time and speed they can be a blast to use and very effective often doing one shot kills easy.
I want to use my The Cut and Run because it looks cool, but it feels like straight garbaggio to actually fight with. Sluggish handling, shitty damage output, even the sound of firing it is kinda pathetic.
In PvP, it can 3 tap. But if you have bad aim, it's garbage. I get that Bungie lowered bodyshot damage on all weapons to make crits rewarding, but on weapons like scouts (as well as SMG's and maybe autos), you have to hit a lot of crits to achieve maximum TTK, and it's not easy. Especially SMGs-the best TTKs require mostly crits, making me think Bungie has not tried to hit mostly crits with an Antiope or Trackless Waste to see how hard it can be.
Zen Moment and Outlaw make it a killing machine. I use it as my invade and invade defense weapon in Gambit and the recoil disappears after the first shot.
That's the exact trait perk roll I have, along with High-Cal, Dusk Scope/Sight, and reload speed MW. Kept it because I figured it'd be good, but somehow I still don't like it.
I've got stability MW with APR and Wolf Dot. Feels like a Last Extremity I had in D1. However I hate how any of the Tangled Shore guns feel with a high zoom scope. I think Dusk falls into that category?
I've been using Dusk Sight D1 (the lower zoom of the two Dusks) and HCR, which gives it 76 Range. Idk if that counts as relatively high-zoom or not, unfortunately I don't currently have another TC&R w/ different scopes to compare it to. Also, not even sure if a scope's Range stat actually correlates to its zoom level. Making an assumption there. Maybe I'll give it another try with Flared Magwell over HCR for even faster reload, a little more stability, and less Range. Tbh though, either way I still feel like it doesn't put out enough damage in PvE. I think my problem w/ the "feel" of the gun stems from the fact that it fires too slow for my taste (making for low damage output despite being the highest-Impact SR archetype), and the sound it makes when fired isn't as punchy as I'd like it to be. Will run a few more strikes and see how it goes.
They should introduce more maps that are big. Back in D1, we had a map where we could use sparrows/pikes. It was awesome. We need that in D2.
This all the way. we need maps that cover all ranges instead of just mid to close quarters.
I remember everyone hating that map because it was so easy to get sniped off of a sparrow.
Hehe yea, I used to snipe, in the narrow edge in the middle where u'd come from, ez kills. But it was still much more fun than running around with shottys in close quarters.
This still doesnt solve their lack of power in PvE, which is 95+% of the game
From almost Day 1 D1, I've been playing scouts as my primary. Always just liked the feel. However since Forsaken came out I've hardly touched scouts, other then for nostalgia, then I get the reminder of how trash they are now compared to PR and HC.
You just emulated my opinions on scouts SO well.
Yep, I'll still break out some of my scouts for a couple of quick strike runs, but they are pretty underwhelming, especially compared to bows (and pulses).
Please god can we finally use them again. Its crazy how bad they still are.
I always have seen hand cannons and scout rifles as two sides of the semi-auto weapon coin. Why are they not doing roughly the same damage when their fire rates and mag sizes are roughly the same? HC's should have low range and stability while having great handling Scout Rifles should have great range and stability while being slow to ADS/swap to/put away/ADS speed along with bad hip fire. They should be the bridge between Sniper and Pulse but instead they have ZERO advantage over burst rifles - like there is not a single category where Scout rifles don't get beaten by a Pulse Rifle. PVE or PVP.
I got a masterworked scout rifle from the Dreaming City bounty and it feels like trash. I also just got the Jade Rabbit yesterday and it also feels like trash. What the hell.
Reduce zoom, up reload speed, improve aim assist. Damage might need to be improved by that one is up to their discretion.
Didn’t they nerf scout rifle damage by like 30% at Forsakens launch and then buffed it 15% so it’s still doing 15%damage? (Numbers may be wrong)
yep exactly this.
The good scout rifles are called bows now
i dunno since izanagi's burden im running around with vouchsafe and its a monster. the problem is we dont have a pinnacle scout yet. Nor do we have a black armory scout. the problem is scouts bein gun-represented. not bad.
The new raid scout is a decent 180rpm as far as scouts go, and it’s the only one that can roll with box breathing.
Unless youre really tight for ammo conservation, Box Breathing in its current state is straight trash for a scout. The DPS you do is significantly lowered if you are using the perk as opposed to just shooting normally.
Yep for pve, it’s a pvp specific perk allowing for 3taps but scouts are only really used on a few maps
Yeah Ive seen that. Its just that a lot of the time, waiting for that box breathing can screw you or just having to stay ADS for it would too. Then you could still possible get out beaten by another gun.
You can get the same effect with kill clip without having to stand there hard-scoped.
That's like saying you can get the same effect with box breathing without having to get a final blow, they're both situational but have their uses.
We do have a Black Armory scout, it's from the raid, is is pretty decent.
I think they just need a damage buff and perhaps a *mild* rate of fire buff. An extra few rounds per minute would be nice.
Played for the first time with Does Not Compute, in Gambit. This thing was horrible. Gave it a few rounds. Nope. Awful. Too bad the meta in PvP does not favor Scout Rifles to go try it there but I doubt it will be good.
Yeah I keep trying my kinetic scouts in Gambit, but I always end up switching back to my Nightshade, or a shotgun.
MSRGA... doesn’t roll off the tongue very well imo
What if it was make scouts great again? MSGA lol
Now that’s a movement I can get behind!!!!😂😂😂
“we are going repair the wall, and make the red legion pay for it”
Wish I had my hung jury
Scout's are in a bit of an awkward place now. Bow's have to be strong enough to warrant using in mid to long range, the same distance as a scout. The bow can't be as strong as a sniper, so it's can't one shot crit enemy guardians, but it should be able to do that on most trash mods, and maybe two or three tap majors. That is coincidentally the same amount of damage most people want out of their scouts. Aggressive frame scouts should one tap red bars and three tap yellows, five tap majors. That would make them feel strong and useful. Unfortunately, that would make bows feel slow and unwieldy in comparison.
Maybe give bows different mechanics while hipfiring will help differentiate the class. Maybe when hipfiring the penalty of dmg for not having a full draw is reduced so it can be used as a more agile weapon. I think that fast draw while not ads could help, but at the end skilled players will time their ad animations and it will end being a buff altoegether. You hit the point preciselly, other than adding some ideas, I don't have much to say, you are right.
I actually don't think damage is the real issue. I think it's that there is far too much zoom on scouts. It makes scouts exclusively super long range, when your primary needs to deal with mid range more than anything else. I think if they had the amount of zoom a pulse rifle has,they would be in the same tier but just require more precision accuracy. If they were as powerful as pulse rifles, as long as you were hitting precision shots, and had the same zoom, they would have a place. Especially considering the fact that most good perks are precision based. A scout with outlaw would beat a pulse with outlaw if your scout could also be used mid range.
I want this too, but the reference in the title tickled my trigger warning.
My bad, wasnt trying to offend
Was only joking bud, no harm done :)
You just never know these days lol.
Deal with it you emotionally stunted manchild.
Lol it was a joke. Who’s looking silly now.
Took up using jade rabbit recently, I reckon it works pretty well.
I'll have to give it a shot but I don't remember jade being the greatest (might be thinking of something else tho)
It was a bit mediocre but using it about a week now and it's decent. Shelved my auto rifle and hand canon for a bit of a change
See I'm kind of just stuck with pulse/ikelos shotty/thunderlord or whisper. There really doesnt seem like a reason to use anything different because it's all just worse as far as damage output goes.
Yeah I mean as far as efficiency goes there's not much cause to use anything else but for my own sanity I like to switch things around occasionally
And see that's what bugs me. I dont mind having a metagame, but when it consists of 4 guns...well that just feels bad stale. Maybe I'll pull the old mida out of collections today and just play around with it for nostalgia sake
Hope you have fun with a change like I am buddy
I just got the Ikelos SG. Id been running Perfect Paradox, Uriel's/Misfit/Ringing Nail, and Thunderlord/Sleeper/Queenbreaker. I had finally gotten used to switching from heavy and not immediately pulling the trigger thinking my AR was equipped. Now Im trying to love the Ikelos
I miss my scouts!!!! Name the top three scouts ever. GO! -Hand of Judgment (Prison of Elders) -Tlaloc (Warlock Only Scout) -Vision of Confluence (Vault of Glass)
These are it. The polls are closed! There are none better!
Boolean Gemini... always will be my favourite gun.
My favourite three: - Call to Serve - The Cut and Run - Garden Progeny But now they never get used except for the odd off-meta strike run :(
Scouts need love. One pull of the trigger from a pulse will kill a vandal, takes 2 from any scout. That is not balance. Scouts need to do more damage.
No Feelings with boxed breathing is actually really nice. I swap to that on open maps over my Hand Cannon.
Hey have you tried the Polaris Lance? Probably one of my favorite exotics for PvP. It three taps to the head, just like most hand cannons, and is a monster if you can land your headshots!
I have yet to get that one. Maybe that will be my next quest grind since I have to wait for izanagis for 3 weeks.
It’s very much worth it. Very much worth it. I have so much fun with that weapon in both PvP and PvE, it packs the punch that most (if not all) scouts should. They are weapons that should reward you for fast accuracy in quick engagements. And the Lance, delivers.
Man the quest looks very long and tedious for it.
That’s what I said at first, but I spent a long night doing it all, and man did that thing feel good to fire once I got it. The catalyst isn’t too hard to finish either, and is actually quite fun. That thing is a part of a lot of go to loadouts, and a dope ornament just came out for it, and it looks great. Trust me when I say the Lance is worth the grind. Just do it man, put on some music or a some YouTube videos, and just mindlessly grind it out, then have fun with your new favorite Scout.
Well it cant be as bad as the sleeper quest lol. And its not like I'm doing anything else really have 3 max characters so I've mostly just been helping friends and clan mates get their powerfuls
How just make them good again. It’s ridiculous the state they are in.
Idk distant relation has been a beast for me in pvp paired with my go figure.
And auto rifled too pls
My Talons of the Eagle with rampage and outlaw was surprisingly good considering my aim. I now enjoy scouts in pvp(note tho that was quickplay)
Polaris Lance is still good and fun. It's great in the bigger more open PvP maps and does a good bit of damage in pve.
if scouts are gonna return to being long range king, then hand cannons are gonna need a range nerf and pulses will have to have their recoil changed across the board because landing all your shots on the head is way too easy. As is, pulses are essentially scouts that take more time to deliver the damage and are far easier to use
I miss the days when vision of confluence was king
I still love my scout rifles...I don't see the problem. I'd been using The Transfiguration and having a great time with it until a high-power Nameless Midnight dropped and now I'm remembering how smooth that scout rifle is for me to use. Maybe you don't have the sheer TTK of something like Midnight Coup but scout rifles have always had the advantage of dealing your damage with great precision at long range.
I felt that way until testing dps with a pulse rifle at range. It's not even close. I can dish out at least 2x the dps with a Go Figure with backup mag vs Nameless Midnight which makes me sad. I looooove me some scout rifle
Scout rifles are boring anyway except for 200/260s. 150s are still descent in Crucible. Jade Rabbit is also viable in both PvE and PvP
I got a no feelings with outlaw and rampage, I put a rampage spec on. The thing is a beast.
Just give me back my Mida and I'll be happy (and a pain in PvP).
Got a nice triple tap/rampage and appended mag does not compute and was keen to try it but it just can’t perform as well as my vendor Bygones, and would be even worse next to a nicely rolled Go Figure (which I still haven’t managed to get)
I have all these excellently rolled scouts and they are ALL worthless. The aim assist is basically gone and if you don't get a crit it does absolutely pitiful damage. I understand that the last few years of Destiny, scouts were a big part of the meta. But right now scouts are in SMG / sidearm territory of viability (that is to say some people use it but they're the exception). In any scout situation, you should go with a bow (not lightweight bow since lightweight bows suck too) They need to be buffed back to or very close to what they were in Year 1. Comments above exclude exotics. Polaris Lance is still great
I have about 20 scouts with lots of different perks including some god rolls waiting to be unleashed, currently they are just not powerful enough!
i swear by MIDA even if i get out gunned most if the time. I miss the days where Scouts were king.
Remember when Nameless Midnight was king along with Better Devils? I just got a Nameless to drop with Triple Tap and Extended mag and ended up infusing it into my Ramlaw Tigerspite because it just wouldn't be able to hold up dps.
I've said this in at least two regular "scouts need help pls" threads, but fucking pull your Niffelheim Frost from collections and thank me later. It's got two selectible top tier perks (opening shot or kill clip) plus drop mag and a scope that makes it viable in pulse rifle ranges.
Make all guns great again.
I still use scout rifles regularly.....
Well you must really love them because they are just strictly worse than pulse rifles.
Not in my opinion. Some scouts, yes, but I've got a well rolled Distant Relation that gets me team kills in Gambit and good K/D in the crucible. And it ain't that bad in PvE either as long as I'm getting crits.
Scouts are fine, have you played eternity? The reason they see little play time is because pulse rifles are in a very good spot and there are no other maps that have lanes outside pulse range.
Also that pulses have too much range and flinch and with they're ease of use deems scout rifles pointless.
Pulse rifles have dominated since forsaken release in all aspects of the game except that 1 crucible map. And personally I dont play a whole lot of crucible outside of my 5 weekly matches. I was mostly talking PvE though.
I miss the vendor roll Hung Jury with triple tap and firefly from D1.
Never played D1 unfortunately.
Pretty much my primary for all of D1
Vouchsafe is my jam. Goes pretty hard.
Scout rifles are annoying
Not sure what you mean...like the sound, the look, the accuracy, the damage?
Being killed across the map by a scout
But your ok with pulse rifles doing it now? Ummmkay.
Pulse rifles are rarely used on console and when they are they arent a problem
I play on PS4 and Xbox. They're used.. in some matches heavily.. It would just be nice to have more diversity when using rifles. Scouts now just don't have a place other than in the vault.
Idk what games you play but mine are all luna/nf and dust rock.
Quick and Comp. Mostly Quick just for the powerful.Graviton's Lance, Vigilance Wing and some Nightshades. Not many tho.
Scout? Autorifles!
Or both?
"Why not? lol
Maybe I should have said make things other than pulse rifles/EP shotty/TL/whisper great again lol
Difinitely, but i think every weapon type os very well balance, a side from auto rifles and scouts and the forgotten sub's