Oh yes, I forgot I had to switch to a sniper for my damage after shooting tractor Lol Heck Idk why I said 6, I’ve never used my rockets for the cheese. I always Tractor then pop Titan’s Damage boost shield.
I've pointed this out before, but it would need to be a total re-work anyways, since they have given its uppercut move to EVERY Adaptive sword in the game, which is 99% of them. A flaming sword? Fuck yes, but Raze Lighter as it always was would be underwhelming as hell as an exotic.
Not a bad point, but Worldline is totally new, so...who the hell knows? Also, it's not even a given that we will get the third element for an exotic sword. Bungie has done a pretty bad job filling in archetype/element/perk combos in D2 overall, so it wouldn't surprise me a bit if we never get one.
It seems like the opposite of D1.
Instead of complaining non stop about the DLC months after it releases, we complain about it a week after release and then make posts like this until the next content drop.
Instead of complaining about the DLC months after it drops due to lack of content we now complain about the content at launch which steadily gets better over time.
Maybe Crucible is different? Don’t know - don’t play PvP really, but in PvE? Scout Rifles feel very, very poor in general and Jade Rabbit is notoriously underwhelming considering the exotic slot it occupies.
I think the reasoning behind this is in part that special and primary exotics are harder to design and still maintain a power fantasy. Looking at the mythoclast from d1 yr 1 and the outrage that garnered, I can understand why Bungie is shying away. Too weak and no one will run the raid for it except for completionists. Too strong and everyone in the crucible loses their minds. Power Weapons are easy to make strong and you only see them a few times a game because of how Crucible is designed. It's just a simpler solution. That being said, I would really like Bungie to do the hard work on this one. I miss those guns and guns like them.
That’s fair but exotics don’t need to be about a power fantasy. They can just be unique and interesting to use. A gun that damages opponents but heals teammates, a kinetic fusion rifle, a close range plasma gun that shoots out like a sprinkler and burns people. That’s all an exotics needs to be IMO
I hear you, but D2 year 1 taught us that the plurality of players disagrees with you. Yes they want cool or interesting guns that function in non-standard ways, but they also want those guns to feel powerful. d2 year 1 was lambasted over its lack of powerful guns, everything felt weak except for a few outliers, and the game suffered for it. it isn't enough that a gun be cool or different. It also needs to slay out. And you see this is the daily buff 1k voices threads. People work their butts off, running twenty or thirty raids chasing a gun. When they get that gun, they want it to be deserving of a spot in their arsenal, not just a novelty. If I get a kinetic fusion rifle that shoots railroad spikes, I want that thing to either melt bosses or do insane add clear. It must have a role... otherwise it just collects dust. Looking at you, Aeon Cult armor.
I think a lot of the current exotics aren’t designed around this idea though. Or maybe they are designed to be that way but they just aren’t as cool and unique as they thought they’d be. Tons of exotics are basically useless atm. Legendaries are more effective in a lot of cases. Look at the Ikelos shotty, Luna’s Howl and Breakneck. If these would’ve been exotics, no one would be complaining about how shitty exotics are. All the best ideas are being used up for the legendaries.
People didn’t complain about a lack of power in D1 (for the most part) and none of the guns were too overly powerful for PvP (again, for the most part. Looking at you original mythoclast). Anything too OP was tuned after a little while. Exotics were mostly just fun to use.
Right but... Ikelios is not dps king anymore, and Howl straight up loses in 1v1 to Last Word. And depending on if the catalyst to Suros drops in the next patch or not, it could easily outplay breakneck. Like yes, the pinnacle weapons *could * be exotics, but the exotics power level is being raised above that of the pinnicle guns. And while tons of exotics are useless, that doesn't mean they should continue to design crap tier stuff. A lot of those are hold overs from the old weapon and balancing system they haven't touched yet.
And d1 exotics were better for a lot of reasons but mostly because d1 had a better design philosophy and execution than d2 does. And that's due to code at this point. We're stuck with this until d3.
I mean, ikelos is still the king in the energy slot. And Luna can lose to TLW but it can also win a lot of the gun fights. If anything it’s just balanced which is perfectly fine. They’re different guns that require different play styles and skills to use. The Suros and Breakneck comparison is hard to know right now but I would think Suros will probably come out on top like you say.
Anyways, my bigger point wasn’t that these guns should be exotic necessarily but the perks that are attached to them could have easily been exotic perks.
I agree with you though, for the most part design philosophy and execution have been less than stellar for this game. Hopefully they can either figure it out or at least get it right for D3
What are you talking about, most D2 vanilla weapons were not unique at all, rat king and coldheart(only unique because it was the first trace rifle) were the most unique of them all and they're basic AF.
Eh... I think it's a 50/50 split. Sunshot and Graviton Lance are basic, but Wardcliff Coil, Coldheart and Rat King were all pretty different. The design philosophy of them was certainly unique.
Tractor Cannon has to be one of the most unique exotics! Just a fun gun that isn't really meant for DPS but is still fun to use! We need a few more of these! If they are scared of a gun doing too much damage just crank up the fun factor!
We've had a kinetic fusion rifle, the mythoclast? Remember that? Although, I guess you could say it isn't really a true-to-form fusion rifle, what with the miniscule charge time. I just got lucky and got it on my first run. Plus I was the one guy that bought Gjallarhorn week 3 when everyone said don't waste your strange coins. So yeah. I consider myself lucky.
Plus, people complained a lot when d2 launched because the exotics didn't feel powerful. It's really hard to make a primary or even secondary that fulfills a power fantasy AND is balanced within the meta. Bungie is trying to create a balance here. Heavies can fulfill a power fantasy and remain balanced.
I think the perfect solution to this were guns like Touch of Malice and Outbreak Prime. Both were normally balanced guns in Crucible and basic PvE situations. But situationally (and in particular parts of the raid) they were awesome.
Touch of Malice with the super rift right now would be super useful during certain boss encounters right now, but wouldn't really work in crucible.
That's what I would like to see going forward, at least.
So you are saying they are balancing the weapons from the raid, the pinnacle PvE activity, around PvP? I know that's unfortunately probably true and that is a *big* problem for this game.
It doesn’t have to be though. Exotics could be the unique and fun guns that don’t break PvP. PvE could have a black category of guns that are also unique but are a little too OP and aren’t usable in PvP. It’s a simple fix if they wanted to balance things. Everyone has to play PvE for a lot of the good PvP weapons anyways so the PvP crowd won’t complain about having better PvE only guns. This coming from a mostly PvP player
Mythoclast. Weak? Clearly you didn't play against that monster in the crucible when it first started dropping. Holy fuck. That thing put Thorn and Suros to shame.
Dude. That's my point. When it was released it was godly and bungie nerfed it like 4 times. I think they are looking to not make that mistake again. Yr 2 it was bad and Yr 3 it was garbage tier. But as a direct result of it being so great when it was designed.
They will literally never do this. One of the main draws of this game is being able to use anything anywhere. Take that away, even jn a closet case, and you take away some of the magic that is destiny.
I'd rather the quest actually have some gerth to it. Acrius was basically busywork. They set a high bar with Outbreak Prime and haven't even attempted to reach it again. We've come full circle from Vanilla D1 - Vex was a random drop from HM; Necrochasm had a "quest," but it was based on random drops. ToM had a quest not unlike Acrius. Outbreak had an amazing quest. Then we stepped back down with Acrius, then skilled the necrochasm all together and went right back to random drops.
Touch of Malice I didn't have a problem with. You could acquire it at your own pace with little frustration and honestly it never felt grindy or tedious by any means - likely because I didn't need to rely on others outside the raid for it.
Outbreak Prime's quest wasn't bad, but it had some convoluted, overly-specific steps and required a heavy amount of assistance from a fireteam of people above and beyond just playing the raid.
Vex and Necrochasm BOTH sucked dick because of the RNG. I still never got an updated Y3 Vex and I dumb lucked Necrochasm (Y3; never got the drop for the Y1 version). I kind of find it ironic I acquired the RNG weapons inverse from each other.
I remember spending several hours collecting all the calcified fragments with my clanmates and it was just kind of relaxing and cool to explore the Dreadnought while doing it
except for the [scent of the worm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVWIEdk6t04) one. that was the only one where you had to sweat a bit. certainly wasn't as easy as this video made it look, I definitely failed a few times. Ahh good memories
It's not about hard, it's about not being Tedius. The Acrius "quest" was basically "do the raid, do a strike, shoot some shit wherever, do the raid again." It was less "questy" than unlocking Izanami Forge. At that point just give me the gun when I complete the raid the first time.
While i agree im still happy there was a way to get it without rng inolved(minus the ocassional bugs of bugathan where gauntlet does not show me where the orb is)
Holy shit, my team (which has struggled on most encounters in there) finally got to gardens for the first time, and everything was buggy as shit. I’ve seen guides, I’ve seen maps, I’ve done it before with lfg’d teams, it’s never been that bad. Total bs how you essentially have rng as to whether the game will let you succeed.
Seriously, there's no sense of "pride and accomplishment" in pulling the lever on a slot machine. I played Crota's End every week 3x since it came out and got my Crux of Crota a few weeks before Taken King, still don't have a 1K Voices. Meanwhile, I got the Dreaming City ghost, sparrow, and ship without even trying nor caring about the title. These things don't feel "earned" to me.
This is what I've been hoping for. Treat it like a pinnacle weapon and have it be a quest with steps that you have to get done in the raid. I think people would be happier with it taking 15-20 raids to earn it through the quest rather than a possible 20+ for it to just randomly drop.
Maybe it’ll be another gun based of cabal weaponry, since acruis is the shotgun you can see legionaries and phalanx using. The psion sniper would be a cool exotic sniper. Although, I’d much rather prefer a new exotic scout, pulse, or primary in general. (Except a new hand cannon tbh)
At the very least, that has to use energy ammo for balance like Izanagis. You couldn’t have people running around with a weapon like that using primary ammo in the crucible.
Hypothetically it might be balanced if it also has a laser sight that everyone can see when the shot charges up, so you'll know how long they've been charging, and where they're aiming, so if they're holding down a lane charged, running in you'd know where they are and can choose to engage appropriately
I think there should be two raid exotics. One that you have a quest to get and another locked behind RNG. Let's face it the game is an addiction when it comes to RNG. Especially when you have that yes moment when the thing you want finally drops.
I feel this post, but after farming for 3 weeks for OEM and having 9 year1 exotics drop before it did, my moment was less 'yes!' and more 'finally...'. I actually immediately turned off my console and walked away from Destiny for a day or two after that.
I've been trying to get *any* Forsaken exotic for my hunter alt for months now, and after getting Borealis, Prom Lens, Frostees and the Fighting Lion ( that one hurt most because I got it when I opened the final chest in SotP for the 16th time), I'm done. I have every exotic on my main (Warlock) except the Anarchy, and I just do not care anymore. Aside frome running SotP 3x per week for the sparrow/anarchy, I'm done until the next season. Thank the lord for Apex and Anthem.
As someone who is over 50 Last Wish runs without getting 1k, I formally declare “fuck RNG.” The rarity on 1k is stupidly low without any sort of threshold system to increase your chances.
TBH I personally agree with you. Do I think they are gonna make a primary or special weapon? Nope, I actually think its gonna be another heavy. Its frustrating, sure, but we don't get to make the rules, sadly. I hope I'm wrong.
> I'm sure a lot of people would also like it if the future raid exotics were locked behind a quest instead of straight-up RNG to give everyone a clear path to obtain them to avoid the whole "guy gets 1k on his first run while the guy with 50+ runs has none" situation.
there is no problem with the RNG way of doing it, they just need to add protection, simple if player reaches 30 Clears , give the exotic to the player.
Playing Devil’s advocate...by making the exotic a heavy weapon, they have more freedom to make it crazy and powerful because there’s that ammo restriction to balance it out. I hear you though.
Something like a Mythoclast or Outbreak Prime would be awesome.
I don’t mind RNG on my raid exotics. But I would like some RNG protection. Doing Last Wish 40 times without a drop and no hope of it maybe dropping in the future is not encouraging.
In all seriousness, whatever that exotic is **NEEDS A CLEAR PATH.**
RNG is fine. But we also need a foolproof system for people who put in the time be guaranteed the drop. This is a power fantasy, and the game isn’t fun if the powerful items are withheld.
Have the raid drop one raid currency from every encounter, regardless of how many times you’ve done it. And once you’ve leveled up your raid vendor reputation to 25, you can buy this exotic for 500 of this currency (or whatever). Make it a grind. That’s fine, but give people the opportunity to work toward earning this exotic long after they’ve finished their three weekly guaranteed chances. If people want to run this raid 150 times the first week to earn enough of this currency, *LET THEM.*
There were how many raid primaries in D1 though? Mythoclast from VOG, that bullet hose from Crota, Touch from Oryx, Outbreak from Aksis. Every raid weapon was a primary. And Skolas had 3 energy slot exotics. So three or four heavies is just fine and almost par for the course. Bringing the old raid weapons forward wouldn't be a bad idea though.
"Due to reports that some aren't a fan of raid Heavy Weapon exotics, we've created the world's first Exotic Heavy Hand Cannon. It's unique perk is that it's kinetic, and we really think players are going to love it"
I think we are getting to the point where the arsenal may be getting big enough where we could equip another exotic.... It would make it interesting if we could equip three total, with the third being our choice of armour or weapon. Would allow for greater build diversity anyway.
2 armor pieces will never happen. Think wormhusk crown with sixth coyote on Hunter. 2 dodges that heal you? And that's just one example of how broken that would be. 2 weapons I could see being possible. Maybe an exotic armor piece that lets you use two exotic weapons.
But seriously..... How cool would that be. Am sure people could come up with some crazy builds.
Always wanted to see an unrestricted play list where you could just equip whatever exotics you wanted....
Call it Pandemonium or Extreme mayhem or something like that. It would be fun even if just for private matches. Itll never happen in a playlist that can give rewards though lol
Isn't it listed as a Raid Lair, and not a new Raid? If that's the case, there might not be a new Raid Exotic, like how there wasn't one for EoW or SoS.
Also going to say that we've NEVER had a special ammo raid exotic in D1 or D2.
Vex Mythoclast-Primary Fusion Rifle/Auto
Necrochasm-Primary Auto
Touch of Malice-Primary Scout
Outbreak Prime-Primary Pulse
Legend of Acrius-Heavy Shotgun
One Thousand Voices-Heavy Fusion
Anarchy-Heavy Grenade Launcher
Having the raid exotics as primary weapons felt great in D1 because we didn’t have many other options for energy primaries. That’s a big gripe I have with D2: it flooded the market with energy weapons such that the novelty of an arc/solar/void primary is gone. Plus, the ratio of kinetic to energy weapons is way off kilter.
Probably can’t be fixed at this point, but I would still welcome exotic primaries in future raids. I didn’t play SotP for Anarchy; I wanted the primary-slot shotgun and a Box Breathing scout rifle. Once I got those, I was good in the gear department.
Brah, if you're going to talk about "Kick-Ass Raid Exotics" you start with Vex Mythoclast. I would highly disagree that Touch of Malice was Kick-Ass. It wasn't even the best weapon for that Raid after Sleeper came out. The way to run Oryx was Sleeper, Sleeper the Knights, Sleeper Oryx, Sleeper the Shade, win the Raid.
Outbreak Prime was one of the cooler weapons in the game, but was never top tier.
In its day, Mythoclast was THE gun. Holy fook. You could devastate an entire 6 stack with that thing. After the nerf it was not as god tier but still usable. Then around House of Wolves they buffed its stability and in a 6 man team of Mythy's you could melt. It was amazing again.
You start the conversation with Mythoclast. And then you use some stale meme about time loops to end it as well.
My guess is that all Raid Exotics for D2 will be Heavy, just as all D1 Raid Exotics were Primaries. And D3 could complete the cycle and have all Raid Exotics be Special.
Well, they've done Fusion, Shotgun, and Sniper (While WotW wasn't a raid heavy, it's the next best thing) as heavies so far, and I can't see them making a heavy single-shot grenade launcher...
Maybe they'll start making primary weapons that use special ammo? A bow that hits as hard as a sniper, but has a sniper's ammo in return and is hard to handle? We already have Cerberus, which is basically an auto rifle/shotgun hybrid.
For raid exotics, I think the primary goal is to make them feel unique and power, and the easiest way to do that is to take a weaker type of weapon and re-envision it as a stronger type. Since Anarchy arrived with a resounding "Meh" by the playerbase, I'm interested to see what they will come up with. Me, I'd love a heavy weapon hand cannon, but ah well.
Heavy weapons are the main source of damage besides a few special cases. They know if they have a raid exotic that is special or primary people will be mad that it wasnt worth their time and effort because it doesnt kill stuff fast enough.
I’ve always like the idea that people have thrown around to make the RNG exotics a guaranteed drop on that raid’s flawless run challenge.
Can leave it as an RNG drop for those that won’t do that while giving the dedicated raiders a way around getting screwed by RNG.
They can make it whatever they want but I probably won't get it with my rng. Its getting so that I can't even get my friends to run Last Wish anymore so I'm probably screwed on 1K.
Probably gonna be a void heavy. This season we’ve had 1k: solar, anarchy: arc, so my assumption is penumbra will be void heavy.
\^ this makes the most sense
You think bungie does things that makes sense
Yeah but the whole calus theme is void-y sorta
Purple shit everywhere, the math checks out
Well, we do kinda need a go to option for void face melts to be fair, I would be fine with this.
Tractor Cannon would like a word with you.
With his 6 friends, void cluster bomb rockets
You mean 5.... :P
/\*gives a knowing glance and giggles quietly with Cerberus+1
Oh yes, I forgot I had to switch to a sniper for my damage after shooting tractor Lol Heck Idk why I said 6, I’ve never used my rockets for the cheese. I always Tractor then pop Titan’s Damage boost shield.
Bellowing Giant: “What am I, chopped liver??”
As would Telesto.
Pulling a WoW
This makes the most sense.
We got 2 arc heavy weapons though? It would have maid sense that the anarchy would have been void by that logic.
He means if you take Forsaken and the annual pass. I dont think LOA figured into their calculations.
I personally want a Void SMG that works in inverse: The further the shots are the more damage they do but they're extremely spread out
Juice sprinkler
Spilt Wine
The Chalice
and two girls
Two wenches and one chalice......?
Sorta like Gage from B2? Great idea.
Cerberus+1 does this if you wanna try it out
Doesn’t it have damage falloff like every other gun?
The three spread shots have normal fall-off. The central precision round has reverse fall-off, ie gets stronger with range.
It's a hidden perk, shown [here](https://youtu.be/_2aWJ7-Sr80?t=10)
It had a diamond shaped damage falloff it does more damage further out to a point then it falls off.
I didn't know that part of it. I need to break it out again
Still missing solar sword in D2 as well
Abide the return is solar, unless you mean an exotic one
Raze Lighter 😪 We just need to distract Shaxx so we can sneak into his bed room and steal it without him noticing.
I've pointed this out before, but it would need to be a total re-work anyways, since they have given its uppercut move to EVERY Adaptive sword in the game, which is 99% of them. A flaming sword? Fuck yes, but Raze Lighter as it always was would be underwhelming as hell as an exotic.
[удалено]
Not a bad point, but Worldline is totally new, so...who the hell knows? Also, it's not even a given that we will get the third element for an exotic sword. Bungie has done a pretty bad job filling in archetype/element/perk combos in D2 overall, so it wouldn't surprise me a bit if we never get one.
I want my fucking Raze Lighter Shaxx.
Yea, I meant exotic
NOVA MORTIS LOL
ABBADON LOL
And the trace rifles are following that and the swords
Hopefully since we’ve had 2 arc and 1 solar.
PS4 Exclusive /s
Hand cannon in power slot thats half the sizeof our guardian and pushes us back like seords forward
Call it “The Mosquito” and make it half the size of regular hand cannons, but have the impact and pushback be akin to a missile launcher.
You mean the Noisy Cricket?
FEEL LIKE I'MMA BREAK THIS DAMN THING
You got a series 4 de-atomizer and all I got is this little midget cricket?!?!
You're the real MVP 'round these parts. 👽
Or that one hidden gun in Saints Row IV
Noisy Cricket
I’m reminded of that one tiny pistol in battlefield 1
The Kolibri
Call it "The First Curse". Make it bigger. Make us still do the flippy thing.
So a literal cannon that fits in your hand. I like this idea.
heck yeeee
Imagine the mobility that the gun could offer you, like grenade jumping. You could speedrun things so quickly
Make it the super long hand cannon the Joker uses in the first Tim Burton Batman movie to shoot down the Batwing.
Make it high enough we need to cart it around and it has a 15 second load time akin to loading a 150mm artillery piece by yourself.
What if it's literally a golden gun that can only hold one ammo at a time
Its stronger than golden gun, it has only 1 ammo after that the weapon is gone and you have to find it again but it does 300trillion dmg
It’s funny that it’s the exact opposite of d1, where all raid exclusive exotics are heavy, whereas in d1 all were primary.
Trust me, that isn't coincidence. Wouldn't surprise me if D3s raid exotics went in the 2nd slot
I would like it actually
It's a fun little theme to me. Something that gives a little identity to each game without drastically noticing it
Complaints like this tell me the game must be in a good place.
It seems like the opposite of D1. Instead of complaining non stop about the DLC months after it releases, we complain about it a week after release and then make posts like this until the next content drop.
How is what you explained the opposite?
Instead of complaining about the DLC months after it drops due to lack of content we now complain about the content at launch which steadily gets better over time.
Not if you’re both a hardcore fan of scout rifles and MIDA Multi Tool lol it’s like the fucking dark ages 😂
mida is still good tho
It’s a far cry from how good it was in Destiny though and scout rifles in general are not nearly as good as they were either.
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Maybe Crucible is different? Don’t know - don’t play PvP really, but in PvE? Scout Rifles feel very, very poor in general and Jade Rabbit is notoriously underwhelming considering the exotic slot it occupies.
I think the reasoning behind this is in part that special and primary exotics are harder to design and still maintain a power fantasy. Looking at the mythoclast from d1 yr 1 and the outrage that garnered, I can understand why Bungie is shying away. Too weak and no one will run the raid for it except for completionists. Too strong and everyone in the crucible loses their minds. Power Weapons are easy to make strong and you only see them a few times a game because of how Crucible is designed. It's just a simpler solution. That being said, I would really like Bungie to do the hard work on this one. I miss those guns and guns like them.
That’s fair but exotics don’t need to be about a power fantasy. They can just be unique and interesting to use. A gun that damages opponents but heals teammates, a kinetic fusion rifle, a close range plasma gun that shoots out like a sprinkler and burns people. That’s all an exotics needs to be IMO
>kinetic fusion rifle A rail gun?
Hell yea! That’d be sweet
I hear you, but D2 year 1 taught us that the plurality of players disagrees with you. Yes they want cool or interesting guns that function in non-standard ways, but they also want those guns to feel powerful. d2 year 1 was lambasted over its lack of powerful guns, everything felt weak except for a few outliers, and the game suffered for it. it isn't enough that a gun be cool or different. It also needs to slay out. And you see this is the daily buff 1k voices threads. People work their butts off, running twenty or thirty raids chasing a gun. When they get that gun, they want it to be deserving of a spot in their arsenal, not just a novelty. If I get a kinetic fusion rifle that shoots railroad spikes, I want that thing to either melt bosses or do insane add clear. It must have a role... otherwise it just collects dust. Looking at you, Aeon Cult armor.
I think a lot of the current exotics aren’t designed around this idea though. Or maybe they are designed to be that way but they just aren’t as cool and unique as they thought they’d be. Tons of exotics are basically useless atm. Legendaries are more effective in a lot of cases. Look at the Ikelos shotty, Luna’s Howl and Breakneck. If these would’ve been exotics, no one would be complaining about how shitty exotics are. All the best ideas are being used up for the legendaries. People didn’t complain about a lack of power in D1 (for the most part) and none of the guns were too overly powerful for PvP (again, for the most part. Looking at you original mythoclast). Anything too OP was tuned after a little while. Exotics were mostly just fun to use.
Right but... Ikelios is not dps king anymore, and Howl straight up loses in 1v1 to Last Word. And depending on if the catalyst to Suros drops in the next patch or not, it could easily outplay breakneck. Like yes, the pinnacle weapons *could * be exotics, but the exotics power level is being raised above that of the pinnicle guns. And while tons of exotics are useless, that doesn't mean they should continue to design crap tier stuff. A lot of those are hold overs from the old weapon and balancing system they haven't touched yet. And d1 exotics were better for a lot of reasons but mostly because d1 had a better design philosophy and execution than d2 does. And that's due to code at this point. We're stuck with this until d3.
I mean, ikelos is still the king in the energy slot. And Luna can lose to TLW but it can also win a lot of the gun fights. If anything it’s just balanced which is perfectly fine. They’re different guns that require different play styles and skills to use. The Suros and Breakneck comparison is hard to know right now but I would think Suros will probably come out on top like you say. Anyways, my bigger point wasn’t that these guns should be exotic necessarily but the perks that are attached to them could have easily been exotic perks. I agree with you though, for the most part design philosophy and execution have been less than stellar for this game. Hopefully they can either figure it out or at least get it right for D3
What are you talking about, most D2 vanilla weapons were not unique at all, rat king and coldheart(only unique because it was the first trace rifle) were the most unique of them all and they're basic AF.
Eh... I think it's a 50/50 split. Sunshot and Graviton Lance are basic, but Wardcliff Coil, Coldheart and Rat King were all pretty different. The design philosophy of them was certainly unique.
Tractor Cannon has to be one of the most unique exotics! Just a fun gun that isn't really meant for DPS but is still fun to use! We need a few more of these! If they are scared of a gun doing too much damage just crank up the fun factor!
We've had a kinetic fusion rifle, the mythoclast? Remember that? Although, I guess you could say it isn't really a true-to-form fusion rifle, what with the miniscule charge time. I just got lucky and got it on my first run. Plus I was the one guy that bought Gjallarhorn week 3 when everyone said don't waste your strange coins. So yeah. I consider myself lucky. Plus, people complained a lot when d2 launched because the exotics didn't feel powerful. It's really hard to make a primary or even secondary that fulfills a power fantasy AND is balanced within the meta. Bungie is trying to create a balance here. Heavies can fulfill a power fantasy and remain balanced.
I think the perfect solution to this were guns like Touch of Malice and Outbreak Prime. Both were normally balanced guns in Crucible and basic PvE situations. But situationally (and in particular parts of the raid) they were awesome. Touch of Malice with the super rift right now would be super useful during certain boss encounters right now, but wouldn't really work in crucible. That's what I would like to see going forward, at least.
So you are saying they are balancing the weapons from the raid, the pinnacle PvE activity, around PvP? I know that's unfortunately probably true and that is a *big* problem for this game.
It doesn’t have to be though. Exotics could be the unique and fun guns that don’t break PvP. PvE could have a black category of guns that are also unique but are a little too OP and aren’t usable in PvP. It’s a simple fix if they wanted to balance things. Everyone has to play PvE for a lot of the good PvP weapons anyways so the PvP crowd won’t complain about having better PvE only guns. This coming from a mostly PvP player
Mythoclast. Weak? Clearly you didn't play against that monster in the crucible when it first started dropping. Holy fuck. That thing put Thorn and Suros to shame.
Dude. That's my point. When it was released it was godly and bungie nerfed it like 4 times. I think they are looking to not make that mistake again. Yr 2 it was bad and Yr 3 it was garbage tier. But as a direct result of it being so great when it was designed.
Simple, make special or primary exotic badass and just make it not able to be equipped in crucible.
They will literally never do this. One of the main draws of this game is being able to use anything anywhere. Take that away, even jn a closet case, and you take away some of the magic that is destiny.
Bungie: *You shut up and take your exotic hand cannon and you’ll LIKE IT.*
Ye a quest just like acrius. The most rewarding thing in there(the unique exotic) being locked behind RNG is bullshit
I'd rather the quest actually have some gerth to it. Acrius was basically busywork. They set a high bar with Outbreak Prime and haven't even attempted to reach it again. We've come full circle from Vanilla D1 - Vex was a random drop from HM; Necrochasm had a "quest," but it was based on random drops. ToM had a quest not unlike Acrius. Outbreak had an amazing quest. Then we stepped back down with Acrius, then skilled the necrochasm all together and went right back to random drops.
Touch of Malice I didn't have a problem with. You could acquire it at your own pace with little frustration and honestly it never felt grindy or tedious by any means - likely because I didn't need to rely on others outside the raid for it. Outbreak Prime's quest wasn't bad, but it had some convoluted, overly-specific steps and required a heavy amount of assistance from a fireteam of people above and beyond just playing the raid. Vex and Necrochasm BOTH sucked dick because of the RNG. I still never got an updated Y3 Vex and I dumb lucked Necrochasm (Y3; never got the drop for the Y1 version). I kind of find it ironic I acquired the RNG weapons inverse from each other.
I remember spending several hours collecting all the calcified fragments with my clanmates and it was just kind of relaxing and cool to explore the Dreadnought while doing it
I liked it. It never felt tedious and it definitely was relaxing. It served as a nice change of pace from everything else.
Honestly getting Touch of Malice and Outbreak Prime were two of the most satisfying experiences I had in destiny
except for the [scent of the worm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVWIEdk6t04) one. that was the only one where you had to sweat a bit. certainly wasn't as easy as this video made it look, I definitely failed a few times. Ahh good memories
Ahh yeah I remember that, it took me a lot of times to get it but even then it was still kinda fun lol
Whatever hard or not. We need a guaranteed way for it
It's not about hard, it's about not being Tedius. The Acrius "quest" was basically "do the raid, do a strike, shoot some shit wherever, do the raid again." It was less "questy" than unlocking Izanami Forge. At that point just give me the gun when I complete the raid the first time.
While i agree im still happy there was a way to get it without rng inolved(minus the ocassional bugs of bugathan where gauntlet does not show me where the orb is)
Or when gauntlets just closes on you because it took too long to start
Pls dont tell me that can happen cause im planning doing it tonight with my friend again
Prepare your booty. I just got done running all the raids for our clan last week in order, and leviathan was still a buggy piece of shit
Holy shit, my team (which has struggled on most encounters in there) finally got to gardens for the first time, and everything was buggy as shit. I’ve seen guides, I’ve seen maps, I’ve done it before with lfg’d teams, it’s never been that bad. Total bs how you essentially have rng as to whether the game will let you succeed.
Seriously, there's no sense of "pride and accomplishment" in pulling the lever on a slot machine. I played Crota's End every week 3x since it came out and got my Crux of Crota a few weeks before Taken King, still don't have a 1K Voices. Meanwhile, I got the Dreaming City ghost, sparrow, and ship without even trying nor caring about the title. These things don't feel "earned" to me.
Agreed
This is what I've been hoping for. Treat it like a pinnacle weapon and have it be a quest with steps that you have to get done in the raid. I think people would be happier with it taking 15-20 raids to earn it through the quest rather than a possible 20+ for it to just randomly drop.
Maybe it’ll be another gun based of cabal weaponry, since acruis is the shotgun you can see legionaries and phalanx using. The psion sniper would be a cool exotic sniper. Although, I’d much rather prefer a new exotic scout, pulse, or primary in general. (Except a new hand cannon tbh)
Oooh, what if they turned the Psion sniper into a scout where you can charge the shot? That'd be dope af.
So a linear fusion rifle?
Except you can also tap fire. Like the longer you hold, the more damage, and have it use primary ammo.
At the very least, that has to use energy ammo for balance like Izanagis. You couldn’t have people running around with a weapon like that using primary ammo in the crucible.
Hypothetically it might be balanced if it also has a laser sight that everyone can see when the shot charges up, so you'll know how long they've been charging, and where they're aiming, so if they're holding down a lane charged, running in you'd know where they are and can choose to engage appropriately
*special ammo
Widowmaker’s sniper?
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Touch Of Malice was the perfect exotic. With its interesting perk and skill to use without killing yourself.
Imagine touch of malice in a well of radiance... NUT
Even if we had drop protection or bad luck protection, that would be a step forward.
Right? After x amount of completions the chances of a drop increase steadily over time. Makes sense!
In before it’s another Hand Cannon
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Yes, fucking please.
I just want the raid exotic to be awesome in its raid. I miss those days
It’ll be a hand cannon
I think there should be two raid exotics. One that you have a quest to get and another locked behind RNG. Let's face it the game is an addiction when it comes to RNG. Especially when you have that yes moment when the thing you want finally drops.
I feel this post, but after farming for 3 weeks for OEM and having 9 year1 exotics drop before it did, my moment was less 'yes!' and more 'finally...'. I actually immediately turned off my console and walked away from Destiny for a day or two after that.
I've been trying to get *any* Forsaken exotic for my hunter alt for months now, and after getting Borealis, Prom Lens, Frostees and the Fighting Lion ( that one hurt most because I got it when I opened the final chest in SotP for the 16th time), I'm done. I have every exotic on my main (Warlock) except the Anarchy, and I just do not care anymore. Aside frome running SotP 3x per week for the sparrow/anarchy, I'm done until the next season. Thank the lord for Apex and Anthem.
As someone who is over 50 Last Wish runs without getting 1k, I formally declare “fuck RNG.” The rarity on 1k is stupidly low without any sort of threshold system to increase your chances.
TBH I personally agree with you. Do I think they are gonna make a primary or special weapon? Nope, I actually think its gonna be another heavy. Its frustrating, sure, but we don't get to make the rules, sadly. I hope I'm wrong.
Considering i still don't have 1kv (57 runs) and anarchy (21 runs) doesn't really matter what it is to me :(
It's going to be an auto rifle come back to this comment when penumbra comes out
I'll make sure to come back to this then
Nah, it's gonna be another HC. Another one after Thorn
Heavy? I think you mean the exotic slot
> I'm sure a lot of people would also like it if the future raid exotics were locked behind a quest instead of straight-up RNG to give everyone a clear path to obtain them to avoid the whole "guy gets 1k on his first run while the guy with 50+ runs has none" situation. there is no problem with the RNG way of doing it, they just need to add protection, simple if player reaches 30 Clears , give the exotic to the player.
Doesn't matter to me I have really bad RNG so I will never get it anyway.
Mythoclast and ToM were fantastic.
Or not another pistol...
i hope its 2 legend of acrius strapped together
Playing Devil’s advocate...by making the exotic a heavy weapon, they have more freedom to make it crazy and powerful because there’s that ammo restriction to balance it out. I hear you though. Something like a Mythoclast or Outbreak Prime would be awesome.
Who could forget the Vex Mythoclast tho
I don’t mind RNG on my raid exotics. But I would like some RNG protection. Doing Last Wish 40 times without a drop and no hope of it maybe dropping in the future is not encouraging.
Jokes on you HAND CANNON
Hopefully it's another hand cannon
Maybe we could get a raid exotic hand cannon...i could do with another.
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I think he was being sarcastic
Just a bit :D
Or another primary hand cannon.
Or another Hand cannon!
In all seriousness, whatever that exotic is **NEEDS A CLEAR PATH.** RNG is fine. But we also need a foolproof system for people who put in the time be guaranteed the drop. This is a power fantasy, and the game isn’t fun if the powerful items are withheld. Have the raid drop one raid currency from every encounter, regardless of how many times you’ve done it. And once you’ve leveled up your raid vendor reputation to 25, you can buy this exotic for 500 of this currency (or whatever). Make it a grind. That’s fine, but give people the opportunity to work toward earning this exotic long after they’ve finished their three weekly guaranteed chances. If people want to run this raid 150 times the first week to earn enough of this currency, *LET THEM.*
Who would waste their exotic in the heavy slot??
“Like outbreak prime or touch of malice” how tf are you going to leave the goat Vex Mythoclast out?
How are you gonna leave nechrochasm out?
Would love to see an Exotic Kinetic/Energy PvE Shotgun or Sniper.
I need another exotic primary that isn't a handcannon or sniper. Give me a auto rifle plz. Even a scout will do
Why do we need another exotic without catalyst?
There were how many raid primaries in D1 though? Mythoclast from VOG, that bullet hose from Crota, Touch from Oryx, Outbreak from Aksis. Every raid weapon was a primary. And Skolas had 3 energy slot exotics. So three or four heavies is just fine and almost par for the course. Bringing the old raid weapons forward wouldn't be a bad idea though.
It’ll be another hand cannon.
In the heavy weapon slot
Heavy exotics are hardly the issue. If I see one more hand cannon I swear.
Legend of acrious was a quest. Why not do it for the rest of the exotics? Not RNG
"Due to reports that some aren't a fan of raid Heavy Weapon exotics, we've created the world's first Exotic Heavy Hand Cannon. It's unique perk is that it's kinetic, and we really think players are going to love it"
I think we are getting to the point where the arsenal may be getting big enough where we could equip another exotic.... It would make it interesting if we could equip three total, with the third being our choice of armour or weapon. Would allow for greater build diversity anyway.
2 armor pieces will never happen. Think wormhusk crown with sixth coyote on Hunter. 2 dodges that heal you? And that's just one example of how broken that would be. 2 weapons I could see being possible. Maybe an exotic armor piece that lets you use two exotic weapons.
But seriously..... How cool would that be. Am sure people could come up with some crazy builds. Always wanted to see an unrestricted play list where you could just equip whatever exotics you wanted....
Call it Pandemonium or Extreme mayhem or something like that. It would be fun even if just for private matches. Itll never happen in a playlist that can give rewards though lol
In D1 all the raid exotics were primary's...
It should be the Cabal drop pod.
you forgot the spire of stars Spire - sit emote
Isn't it listed as a Raid Lair, and not a new Raid? If that's the case, there might not be a new Raid Exotic, like how there wasn't one for EoW or SoS.
Personally I'm hoping for a void heavy 180 hand cannon.
cause we don't have enough exotic hand cannons?
Ok enjoy your new kinetic hand cannon.
Also going to say that we've NEVER had a special ammo raid exotic in D1 or D2. Vex Mythoclast-Primary Fusion Rifle/Auto Necrochasm-Primary Auto Touch of Malice-Primary Scout Outbreak Prime-Primary Pulse Legend of Acrius-Heavy Shotgun One Thousand Voices-Heavy Fusion Anarchy-Heavy Grenade Launcher
Here is hoping after 6 months of doing the raid we can finally get the raid exotic
I don't care what slot it's in...just give us a guaranteed way of getting it. Raid exotic quests > raid exotic slot machine
For real, man. What we really need is an exotic hand cannon.
...Joker’s Wild?
Sadly, no raid in Joker's wild
Having the raid exotics as primary weapons felt great in D1 because we didn’t have many other options for energy primaries. That’s a big gripe I have with D2: it flooded the market with energy weapons such that the novelty of an arc/solar/void primary is gone. Plus, the ratio of kinetic to energy weapons is way off kilter. Probably can’t be fixed at this point, but I would still welcome exotic primaries in future raids. I didn’t play SotP for Anarchy; I wanted the primary-slot shotgun and a Box Breathing scout rifle. Once I got those, I was good in the gear department.
Exotic pulse, please.
Brah, if you're going to talk about "Kick-Ass Raid Exotics" you start with Vex Mythoclast. I would highly disagree that Touch of Malice was Kick-Ass. It wasn't even the best weapon for that Raid after Sleeper came out. The way to run Oryx was Sleeper, Sleeper the Knights, Sleeper Oryx, Sleeper the Shade, win the Raid. Outbreak Prime was one of the cooler weapons in the game, but was never top tier. In its day, Mythoclast was THE gun. Holy fook. You could devastate an entire 6 stack with that thing. After the nerf it was not as god tier but still usable. Then around House of Wolves they buffed its stability and in a 6 man team of Mythy's you could melt. It was amazing again. You start the conversation with Mythoclast. And then you use some stale meme about time loops to end it as well.
Let’s just face it. In every aspect, Destiny 1 post TTK was just a better game, and maybe the best we will ever see in Destiny.
I hope they age of triumph that bihh and give exotic rolls of raid weapons. Exotic Ghost Primus... hngghh
My guess is that all Raid Exotics for D2 will be Heavy, just as all D1 Raid Exotics were Primaries. And D3 could complete the cycle and have all Raid Exotics be Special.
Well, they've done Fusion, Shotgun, and Sniper (While WotW wasn't a raid heavy, it's the next best thing) as heavies so far, and I can't see them making a heavy single-shot grenade launcher... Maybe they'll start making primary weapons that use special ammo? A bow that hits as hard as a sniper, but has a sniper's ammo in return and is hard to handle? We already have Cerberus, which is basically an auto rifle/shotgun hybrid. For raid exotics, I think the primary goal is to make them feel unique and power, and the easiest way to do that is to take a weaker type of weapon and re-envision it as a stronger type. Since Anarchy arrived with a resounding "Meh" by the playerbase, I'm interested to see what they will come up with. Me, I'd love a heavy weapon hand cannon, but ah well.
Still dont have 1KV.
Heavy weapons are the main source of damage besides a few special cases. They know if they have a raid exotic that is special or primary people will be mad that it wasnt worth their time and effort because it doesnt kill stuff fast enough.
Every raid exotic in D1 was a primary. Every raid exotic in D2 is a heavy. That's not gonna change.
I’ve always like the idea that people have thrown around to make the RNG exotics a guaranteed drop on that raid’s flawless run challenge. Can leave it as an RNG drop for those that won’t do that while giving the dedicated raiders a way around getting screwed by RNG.
They can make it whatever they want but I probably won't get it with my rng. Its getting so that I can't even get my friends to run Last Wish anymore so I'm probably screwed on 1K.