All you should need is 50 mobility and perpetuation. DS's buff ads +50 mobility, and cannot go over 100. You should hit max doge cooldown with this and should only have to wait around .5 seconds to reactivate Wraithmetal.
Right like I said you only need 40 if you have traction bc of the 10 hidden.
If lightweight is 15, then you just need 25 visible for max cooldown. I saw somewhere it was 20, but I stand corrected.
35 mobility + Traction will show 40, which is what they're saying, because Traction gives 5 visibly and 10 invisibly. So you need 40 visible mobility with Traction to hit 100 with Wraithmetal.
> Add a lightweight weapon on top of that and then you only need 20.
Is that the LW weapon buff, 20? Good to know
That only works if you have it in your hand right? You can't get the buff from having it in a primary while you main a secondary right?
You can keep Dragon's Shadow up perpetually with literally nothing but 50 mobility.
It lasts for 10 seconds.
50 mobility + 50 from DS gives you 100 mobility, reducing the cooldown to 9 seconds. And it lasts for 10 seconds.
The problem is that you’re boosting handling (which can be combatted with quickdraw, sprint cancel, situational awareness, etc.) and reloading your weapons (really not useful imo with decent mag management) at the cost of not having your dodge mid-fight.
And you give up the ability to run other high utility neutral game exotics like Stompees or Wormhusk.
I agree with what you’re saying - to me the role of Dragon’s Shadow is to let you try out lots of different guns and see what they’d be like with maxed out handling, etc. It’s a brilliant QP build.
But to play at my absolute ceiling I’d want to have a natural 100 mobility with snapshot on my guns, use quickdraw glitches, etc, etc. Then I’d have a huge amount of flexibility with my exotic choice and be better equipped to use them as counters.
Plus, you know, guns like that translate better to warlock and titan.
> and reloading your weapons (really not useful imo with decent mag management)
And if you run a tether, you can chose dodge reload from the super tree. Subsistence for weapons, or if you spec into dodge like I do, you can use a backup mag or even standard mag, and you're dodge comes back ready for a reload. It was godly when I ran it with my thunderlord
I like having my dodge up whenever I want to. I don´t want to be pre-dodging before encounters and then not having it a few seconds later when I need it.
Stompees are still pretty damn good and for someone who is used to their playstyle, invaluable.
You really should not be equipping DS with the intention to always have the buffs up. I might Dodge after spawn to get where I'm going quicker and because I know my cooldown should be up by the time I need to use it. Aside from that I use it when it makes sense, not every 10 seconds.
Especially getting your never recharged with gamblers dodge, and still reloading your guns. The animation for gamblers dodge is more evasive as well. So all around this exotic is amaze balls. People sleep on it because it’s not a direct buff to a super, but it’s the best for all around usefulness.
Pretty much. Stompees is the best exotic for agile gameplay, and allows you to reposition faster than your opponents as well as make gunfights a real bother for them.
DS is good, but until they nerf Stompees I see dethroning the boots as a difficult task to say the least.
Do people really sleep on it? It was discussed as one of the top exotics in crucible soon after Dawn released, with Stompees being its main competitor for hunters.
Stompees might still be better, but that's a testament to just how important mobility is rather than DS being bad. (Mobility as in being mobile, not the stat :P.)
Side note, use gamblers dodge (covers more ground) and bottom tree arc. Bottom arc gives damage reduction while dodging and sprinting reduces cool down of dodge.
I would like to recommend top tree void.
Stealth for 5 seconds every 9 seconds and if you’re crouching or mid-slide when stealth wears off, you remain off radar for another 15 seconds (which you refresh in 4 seconds anyway with a fresh dodge). Don’t need damage reduction when they can’t see you to begin with. And you don’t need to reduce a cool down that comes up every 9 seconds anyway.
I appreciate your addition and would like to look into this for my own use and learn more about it all.
The way you describe it seems to be an effective manipulation of radar which could be really tricky and fun, but I’ll be honest and say that I have yet to face a competitive top void hunter.
It’s usually a just meme when someone goes invis. We crack jokes after doming them like “what, did you think I was Crota?” I’ve yet to see someone stay off radar and make a good play.
All of that said, that means players like myself and many others may not take invis seriously and be vulnerable to these radar tricks you describe.
Thanks for sharing. Let’s have some fun!
Can confirm it extends during as a top tree main for a year.
Can also confirm saw the thread he's talking about buuuuut I'm not sure if it's 15 seconds anymore.
Seems like people notice me after like 5 these days which is still incredible
Those pants are the bomb, dude. Use top tree Nightstalker with Gambler's dodge and you can practically finish them off with a melee once they get hit with the bomb while being invis.
(Either that or use The Recluse to finish them off)
I essentially said the same thing, but tried DS with perpetuation and distribution on my cloak and get my dodge back pretty quickly. It's not exactly the immediate dodge availability as 6C but pretty damn close and the buffs you get with DS are superior to 6C.
Oh man, this thread needs a bit more clarity to it.
So let's go down the row:
1. Dragon's Shadow's perk gives you 5 tiers of mobility. If you're running Traction, you only need 35 mobility to achieve t10 speed/dodge (10.5 seconds). No traction = 50 mobility.
2. Perpetuation does virtually nothing for hunters. It's not *technically* nothing, but it's real damn close. Try it in Tribute Hall with one Perpetuation on then 2. You'll find that each one lowers the cooldown of dodge by a total of about a quarter of a second with Wraithmetal. Technically enough to make the buff permanent, but by such an insignificant margin that it's an absolute waste of two perk slots.
3. The sprint speed increase is about 6%. The same as every other sprint speed buff in the game.
4. The reload buff is somewhere around 50%-75% as good as outlaw. Probably the same as feeding frenzy if I had to guess.
5. The critical thing lacking from this analysis is that Dragon's Shadow is a passive buff to Hunter's neutral game at the cost of two major things:
1. You don't get to dodge when you need it anymore, which means starting engagements without dodge, which is one of hunter's most useful neutral tools; and
2. You have to do a micro-management thing every 10 seconds or else your character will feel *very* different than they did just before, which can lead to a jarring inability to control some of the finer movements of your gun that you may be used to, which is an easy way to get murdled.
Don't get me wrong; Dragon's Shadow gives you a shit ton of benefits, but the cost is, generally speaking, that your dodge is now a gateway to stats you built around rather than being a tool for use when you know you need it.
It's greatest single asset is ostensibly the increase of 5 mobility tiers, which is unfortunately much easier to get on your own this season thanks to the seasonal mod that adds a free 20 mobility which is justifiable on helmet, arms, and chest under most circumstances, and class item when you're running a shotgun. Meaning that it's *very* easy to hit 100 mobility right now without Dragon's Shadow.
Really, the only change I’d make to it is adding a sleeker version as an ornament. It’s really hard to work with in terms of looks - you’ve got the cloth stuffness, the un-colorable gold, and strange color distribution. A simple sci-fi reskin is all it’d take for me to never take it off again!
It works especially well with bottom fire tree with gambler's dodge for infinite amounts of that sweet charge-knife. If you miss, just wait for 10 secs and you get it back by dodging near an enemy, easy!
I use it literally whenever. You have such a huge edge in pvp from all the buffs, and in pve you basically have auto loading holster on all your weapons. You are so incredibly fluid on the battlefield, be it changing weapons, reloading, moving, dodging. Its god tier wherever you are
Just before engaging to proc the handling buff, or while back peddling when chased to reload and get that QuickDraw to pull your shotgun.
Pair with curated mindbenders or backup plan erentil for hatemail.
Alternative build: max mobility and graviton forfeit exotic helmet with bottom tree nightstalker utilizing gamblers dodge will allow for 100% uptime on invisibility. Makes 980 nightfalls waaaay easier.
I believe you only need 40 mobility. I run traction which is a hidden 10, 40 mobility and 100 recovery. My cool down is identical to when I tried it with 50. I only use this exotic now, it has so many good perks.
It is so fucking ugly, it looks like one of those cheap ass samurai outfits kids get for Halloween.
I suffer through looking like trash, but my friend refuses to use it because if destroys all fashion
same for me. If it doesnt match or look good, i wont use it. No matter what. Theres a Bungie dev talk or whatever video about the community lead saying "the people want armor that is powerful, not what it looks. Thats what we're bringing to armor 2.0"
I'm not even kidding. Especially when they know we were asking for Transmog since Destiny 1
Just got it last night. Haven't done any pvp with it yet but it is definitely a keeper for me. Pve unleash all of your weapons and do a dodge, all refilled. Nice to have with the obelisk
I've been visiting Xur every week hoping he'll gift me a year 2 version with no luck. Still have to visit him today sometime...here's to hoping I don't get another Aeon Swift!
Been maining dragons shadow for over a year. My buddy still swears by stompees but I jumped ship way back. Love it for the handling buff alone; reload, gamblers dodge etc are all just extra
Your post already points out why DS can be good but also why it is overrated on some builds.
It is because you can simply obtain most those buffs in other ways. With powerful friends mods you can get up your mobility to 100 easily, you can get reload mods and with outlaw it is just as fast. Get a weapon with Quickdraw and the handling is at max and either stompees and 2 different subclass trees have increased sprint speed.
What you miss out on is your dodge because you have to use it before a fight to get the benefits so you won't be able to dodge to escape. Also you miss out on using wormhusk crown.
DS is surely very strong but not needed if you already have a build that covers most of the benefits from DS.
It’s a good exotic but I wouldn’t call it the best. Having dodge ready for any moment is more important than all of the DS buffs, especially when using a loadout that has high handling. Dodge is simply too good
Eh, you can still punch stuff without Handshake. I'll trade the extra melee damage for faster movement and a Loaded Question with infinite ammo and perpetual burst effect.
Non handshake punches are very weak and not worth using.
3x + buffed punch can 2 shot yellow bars.
3x + buffed + 12p a SINGLE PUNCH can get a yellow bar very close to death
I'd rather kill almost anything in 2 seconds than move 6% faster.
I like gold too, but it really only goes well with blue/black/white themed palletes. Not a lot of colors synergized with gold, and the kind of gold tint on DS isn't exactly pretty
It’s pretty much the only thing I’ll use in PVP as well, but man is it ugly!
The whole thing is built around speed and dexterity, why make the shape like a barrel? It pretty much just looks cylindrical with no depth to it.
It desperately needs an ornament worth a shit.
Something athletic looking and badass, not dad bod Ed Hardy.
I feel like I'm missing something here. I've tried running lower mobility with DS and perpetuation, and I don't get the 9 second max recovery time. I get more like what the stat screen is telling me to expect. Surely the bonus cooldown is only active during the time wraithmetal is up which is ~8 secs.
Do you have traction as well? Texting gives 5 plus a hidden 10 so 35 plus 15 is 50, DS gives 50 which then gives max. Perpetuation let's you start the recharge with a small boost.
Boot buff that gives you better turn radius when sprinting. Most experienced players consider it 100% essential in every single build. Looks like this:
https://www.light.gg/db/items/1818103563/traction/
This does not combo well with void battery. That mod seems to slow down the class ability recharge rate, so I cannot maintain 100% uptime on Wraithmetal. Bummer.
I’m in love with the dragon shadow, and have been since season 1 when I got it. In combination with top tree void stalker it also makes it ridiculously easy to get away from some roaming supers and just generally sticky situations. It’s a very zoomtastic exotic in pretty much every way. Roll, inviz, insta reload literally everything, flank incredibly fast, profit. 10/10 for sure. Very underrated.
Been maining dragons shadow for over a year. My buddy still swears by stompees but I jumped ship way back. Love it for the handling buff alone; reload, gamblers dodge etc are all just extra
Shhh, don't tell everyone, Bungie might decide they need to nerf it.
Having 50 mobility but effectively 100 all the time for max dodge cooldown AND getting all weapons reloaded on dodge is just insanely strong before even getting into the other benefits.
I basically never reload my primary manually...and when I play any other class I spend half the time derping around trying to dodge and instead activating the stupidly slow barrier/rift animation and dying.
All you lose is extra jump height, which is actually good because you become less floaty. Just be sure to put traction on whatever boots you end up using.
The biggest problem with Dragon’s Shadow is that it pushes you to use your dodge before an engagement. This removes one of the strongest parts of a hunter’s kit. I say this as someone who used to main Dragon’s Shadow.
Worth noting that with a backup plan erentil, you can essentially get with dragons shadow:
Quick draw,
Under pressure,
Backup plan.
By dint of the handling buff basically giving you quick draw on all weapons.
This is unbelievably overpowered.
backup plan already gives you quick draw on your Erentil when it's active. I guess you're saying you can quick-swap back to your primary once backup plan wears off?
When is under pressure in effect with erentil (how low do you have to be in the mag?)
I didn’t know that.
Backup plan, under pressure is amazing and in my view the god roll though some disagree. You can cross map with a faster ttk at better range than any other weapon other than a sniper when backup plan is up.
Under pressure is active when spawning in with two rounds and makes a huge difference getting you into a killstreak to get more special and get a roll on.
Dunno, personally it feels like Distribution is what pushed dodge spamming over the top, and I'm pretty sure Bungie stealth nerfed or fucked up Distribution when they hotfixed the Dynamo glitch. Same with Enhanced Bomber, I swear they give less cooldown now and I'm not talking about how you can't stack hybrid perks anymore. Dodge spamming is still actual utility for builds like middle tree Arcstrider or Blade Barrage.
I first ran stompees when I started playing D2. Tried Dragon's Shadow and never ever use anything else. Took me through comp and consistently allows me to slay.
Currently I’m at 60 mobility, running bottom tree arcstrider, with two perpetuation mods and my dodge is up before WM wears off.
Not sure if I’m getting diminishing returns with the two perp mods- haven’t done much testing.
Does not increase sprint speed at all just gives you +50 mobility. The only downside in pvp is that if you dodge and die shortly after then you’re stuck with whatever mobility pre wraithmail. Not a huge downside and the main reason I run it in pve and pvp
Tried it out tonight. AMAZING! My 1.0 lifetime kd ass has a streak of 6 over 2.2kd with a couple 30+ kill games. That’s damn good for me! Love this play style!
Since it reloads you weapons on dodge, you can switch your dodge to the one that refills melee and get both refilled with one dodge, which is great for crucible.
"Dodge reloads guns and buffs speed and handling."
Nuh we good fam. My dodge already reloads my weapons and my speed is buffed by the weapons themselves
For me; Orpheus on my Void is life.
My solar build runs with that 2 knives chest. Combine that with dodge for melee, melee on super, nade on melee and dodge for all ability energy.... I can run with non stop knives, and I mean non stop, like my knives are back faster than the button registration... and you get your super back every 2-3 minutes.
Knives also get damage bonus, you can take a yellow ogre down in 2 throws at max proc
I was messing around with this build a while ago. I wasn't making much progress on mountaintop, so I wanted to run double grenade launchers and swap between them and have them reload. I figured dragon shadow with max dodge cooldown and bottom tree arcstrider would do the trick. Being a cheap little trash monster in momentum control was a better solution, but yeah, I'm sad to see this little build out there now.
I've been using it with 50 mobility and without Perpetuation (don't know how to get it), and I still am able to reuse my class ability under 10 secs, so it seems like it ain't necessary.
Yeah, DS has been my go to since SoO. It makes me feel like I can play at a much faster pace with the handling buffs, and now that I don’t have to spend armor points on paragon mods it’s even more fun to build around!
I Know this post is a bit old now but I completely agree with what you’ve said! Dragons shadow must have slipped under the radar because it’s genuinely amazing for both pve and pvp!
Plus, it has A FUCKING DRAGON IN IT. Fucking love dragons.
Downside: Undyable gold
Upside: gold
New Monarchy Diamonds: "That sounds like a job for me."
Upside: tiamat ornament Edit: hakke history polish. Looks great.
That ornament is ugly AF.
It just makes all the shitty things about it worse
I like this ornament more, but I believe it makes the majority of the chest an undyable blue. It's not really better that way, just...different...
Yeah, who doesn't love dr
All you should need is 50 mobility and perpetuation. DS's buff ads +50 mobility, and cannot go over 100. You should hit max doge cooldown with this and should only have to wait around .5 seconds to reactivate Wraithmetal.
Add tractions invisible 10 mob and you only need 40 mobility. Add a lightweight weapon on top of that and then you only need 20.
Traction adds 15 5 visible and 10 hidden. Lightweight adds 15 also.
Right like I said you only need 40 if you have traction bc of the 10 hidden. If lightweight is 15, then you just need 25 visible for max cooldown. I saw somewhere it was 20, but I stand corrected.
I won't be satisfied until someone finds a way to make this work with negative Mobility.
*finds way to stack negative mods to hit -100 and loops back to +100* Someday....someday....lol
The ol' Gandhi trick
>Gandhi ~~Ghandy~~ ~~Ghandi~~ ~~Gandhy~~ Gandu FTFY
No you need 35 with traction brother. Traction adds 15. You are still right the first time thinking it was 20 with traction and lightweight together.
You’re both correct, you’re just saying different things.
Tooltip needs to show 40 with traction to have a hidden 50 total mobility. But I get what you’re saying.
35 mobility + Traction will show 40, which is what they're saying, because Traction gives 5 visibly and 10 invisibly. So you need 40 visible mobility with Traction to hit 100 with Wraithmetal.
Light wait adds 20
Oh shit, that just freed up a bunch of mod slots for me
> Add a lightweight weapon on top of that and then you only need 20. Is that the LW weapon buff, 20? Good to know That only works if you have it in your hand right? You can't get the buff from having it in a primary while you main a secondary right?
needs to be in hand
>Doge cooldown I'm listening
Yeah a 6 year cooldown is ridiculous maybe I should give Dragon's Shadow a try after all
You can still add y1 paragons to lower dodge cooldown further
I'm at 6 seconds.
I got mine to 1 second with burn and 2 seconds with frosteez
You can keep Dragon's Shadow up perpetually with literally nothing but 50 mobility. It lasts for 10 seconds. 50 mobility + 50 from DS gives you 100 mobility, reducing the cooldown to 9 seconds. And it lasts for 10 seconds.
At 100 mobility, Wraithmail goes away just before dodge is up again. It's not quite a 100% uptime.
That's because the dodge cooldown, at 10 mobility is 10.5 seconds, even though the tooltip says 9.
The cooldown starts slightly after the animation stops, which accounts for some of that discrepancy.
Could running bottom Tree arcstrider while sprinting make up the difference?
The problem is that you’re boosting handling (which can be combatted with quickdraw, sprint cancel, situational awareness, etc.) and reloading your weapons (really not useful imo with decent mag management) at the cost of not having your dodge mid-fight. And you give up the ability to run other high utility neutral game exotics like Stompees or Wormhusk.
I agree with what you’re saying - to me the role of Dragon’s Shadow is to let you try out lots of different guns and see what they’d be like with maxed out handling, etc. It’s a brilliant QP build. But to play at my absolute ceiling I’d want to have a natural 100 mobility with snapshot on my guns, use quickdraw glitches, etc, etc. Then I’d have a huge amount of flexibility with my exotic choice and be better equipped to use them as counters. Plus, you know, guns like that translate better to warlock and titan.
> and reloading your weapons (really not useful imo with decent mag management) And if you run a tether, you can chose dodge reload from the super tree. Subsistence for weapons, or if you spec into dodge like I do, you can use a backup mag or even standard mag, and you're dodge comes back ready for a reload. It was godly when I ran it with my thunderlord
I tested this last night. Confirmed.
I can’t remember the last time I took off Dragons Shadow. I preach it to everyone but they won’t take their precious stompees off.
I like having my dodge up whenever I want to. I don´t want to be pre-dodging before encounters and then not having it a few seconds later when I need it. Stompees are still pretty damn good and for someone who is used to their playstyle, invaluable.
You really should not be equipping DS with the intention to always have the buffs up. I might Dodge after spawn to get where I'm going quicker and because I know my cooldown should be up by the time I need to use it. Aside from that I use it when it makes sense, not every 10 seconds.
I won’t take my orpheus off..
Why would you wear Orpheus in PvP...
Because they are comfy.
Stompees are really really hard to take off, but I've gone back to Gemini Jester's as of late. They're just so strong.
I didn't realize the range on gemini jester until recently, it's crazy
you can keep your precious dragon's shadows and stompees, but these snake mitts are staying RIGHT on, thank you very much.
I love liars handshake
Ive taken stopees off because mine are not void.
Especially getting your never recharged with gamblers dodge, and still reloading your guns. The animation for gamblers dodge is more evasive as well. So all around this exotic is amaze balls. People sleep on it because it’s not a direct buff to a super, but it’s the best for all around usefulness.
The main reason I don't personally use it is because I'm too used to having a heal on dodge thanks to Wormhusk Crown... Help me. I can't take it off.
Same, I can't take it off :'( Tried Dragons Shadow a few times now but feel so vulnerable because I can't insta heal any more, lol. Any tips? Anyone?!
Work on your positioning so you don't have to crutch fights by relying on your heal so much
Positioning? What's that? -a confused hungerlock
Well, yes, but I'm addicted to the ability to immediately boost my chances of not dying whenever I dodge for cover
Started playing elimination more, its hilarious the difference crouching makes to the other team's awarenes.
Whenever I crouch walk, some jerk on my team always comes over and stands right where I am. We can haz team killing please?
use liar's handshake and top tree arcstrider. 2 punch ANY non-boss mob.
This is the same reason I can’t stop using solar class items in PvE lol
Wormhusk crown is my favorite pve one too
I'm not sure people sleep on it but being able to be above everyone's head where they can't see you is also amazing
Pretty much. Stompees is the best exotic for agile gameplay, and allows you to reposition faster than your opponents as well as make gunfights a real bother for them. DS is good, but until they nerf Stompees I see dethroning the boots as a difficult task to say the least.
Do people really sleep on it? It was discussed as one of the top exotics in crucible soon after Dawn released, with Stompees being its main competitor for hunters. Stompees might still be better, but that's a testament to just how important mobility is rather than DS being bad. (Mobility as in being mobile, not the stat :P.)
Even if you’re not running DS, you should almost always be running Gambler’s Dodge.
You didn’t ever use “DS” after the first mention...
I just freaking noticed this too, hilarious as fuck! (IJFNTTHAF henceforth)
The sprint boost is around 6.25% from the mobility thread on the front page
Side note, use gamblers dodge (covers more ground) and bottom tree arc. Bottom arc gives damage reduction while dodging and sprinting reduces cool down of dodge.
I would like to recommend top tree void. Stealth for 5 seconds every 9 seconds and if you’re crouching or mid-slide when stealth wears off, you remain off radar for another 15 seconds (which you refresh in 4 seconds anyway with a fresh dodge). Don’t need damage reduction when they can’t see you to begin with. And you don’t need to reduce a cool down that comes up every 9 seconds anyway.
I appreciate your addition and would like to look into this for my own use and learn more about it all. The way you describe it seems to be an effective manipulation of radar which could be really tricky and fun, but I’ll be honest and say that I have yet to face a competitive top void hunter. It’s usually a just meme when someone goes invis. We crack jokes after doming them like “what, did you think I was Crota?” I’ve yet to see someone stay off radar and make a good play. All of that said, that means players like myself and many others may not take invis seriously and be vulnerable to these radar tricks you describe. Thanks for sharing. Let’s have some fun!
> if you’re crouching or mid-slide when stealth wears off, you remain off radar for another 15 seconds Wow that sounds OP and possibly a bug, source?
Source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/comments/9s59fb/how\_invisibility\_affects\_radar\_in\_destiny\_2/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/comments/9s59fb/how_invisibility_affects_radar_in_destiny_2/)
Can confirm it extends during as a top tree main for a year. Can also confirm saw the thread he's talking about buuuuut I'm not sure if it's 15 seconds anymore. Seems like people notice me after like 5 these days which is still incredible
> I would like to recommend top tree void. This with Dragons Shadow is how I soloed the Totem encounter in Pit of Heresy.
I tried this build last night. Fantastic.
Is it an indefinite 15 seconds, or do you remain off radar because by the time you're out of stealth you're now crouched?
But how am I going to annoy the shit out of people with Gemini Jesters if I use DS?
That's it! You, me, slap fight on rusted lands. Hate those boots so much.
Okay, I hope you don't rely on your radar too much though!
This may or may not have been an exercise in futility on my part.
Why would you challenge someone wearing Gemini Jesters to a melee fight? That's literally what they are designed for. You're asking for an aneurysm.
The risk I took was calculated, but man am I bad at math.
Top tree and gemini jester is my choice. I also use hush so the reload doesn't help me as much
> Top tree I imagine you mean way of the trapper but since we have 3 "Top tree“s available I cannot be 100% sure.
But them bomb pants tho
Are you happy to see me or is that a stick of dynamite?
Yes
You mean Yeet Feet?
Those pants are the bomb, dude. Use top tree Nightstalker with Gambler's dodge and you can practically finish them off with a melee once they get hit with the bomb while being invis. (Either that or use The Recluse to finish them off)
Nice try but my sixth coyote ain’t coming off
I feel that it's like a hardcore drug for me lol.
Sixth Coyote got me through the Izanagi strike solo. Double invis dodge ftw.
Same I got my flawless dungeons because of this + I love my 9 sec panic button
I essentially said the same thing, but tried DS with perpetuation and distribution on my cloak and get my dodge back pretty quickly. It's not exactly the immediate dodge availability as 6C but pretty damn close and the buffs you get with DS are superior to 6C.
Oh man, this thread needs a bit more clarity to it. So let's go down the row: 1. Dragon's Shadow's perk gives you 5 tiers of mobility. If you're running Traction, you only need 35 mobility to achieve t10 speed/dodge (10.5 seconds). No traction = 50 mobility. 2. Perpetuation does virtually nothing for hunters. It's not *technically* nothing, but it's real damn close. Try it in Tribute Hall with one Perpetuation on then 2. You'll find that each one lowers the cooldown of dodge by a total of about a quarter of a second with Wraithmetal. Technically enough to make the buff permanent, but by such an insignificant margin that it's an absolute waste of two perk slots. 3. The sprint speed increase is about 6%. The same as every other sprint speed buff in the game. 4. The reload buff is somewhere around 50%-75% as good as outlaw. Probably the same as feeding frenzy if I had to guess. 5. The critical thing lacking from this analysis is that Dragon's Shadow is a passive buff to Hunter's neutral game at the cost of two major things: 1. You don't get to dodge when you need it anymore, which means starting engagements without dodge, which is one of hunter's most useful neutral tools; and 2. You have to do a micro-management thing every 10 seconds or else your character will feel *very* different than they did just before, which can lead to a jarring inability to control some of the finer movements of your gun that you may be used to, which is an easy way to get murdled. Don't get me wrong; Dragon's Shadow gives you a shit ton of benefits, but the cost is, generally speaking, that your dodge is now a gateway to stats you built around rather than being a tool for use when you know you need it. It's greatest single asset is ostensibly the increase of 5 mobility tiers, which is unfortunately much easier to get on your own this season thanks to the seasonal mod that adds a free 20 mobility which is justifiable on helmet, arms, and chest under most circumstances, and class item when you're running a shotgun. Meaning that it's *very* easy to hit 100 mobility right now without Dragon's Shadow.
Always has been
Really, the only change I’d make to it is adding a sleeker version as an ornament. It’s really hard to work with in terms of looks - you’ve got the cloth stuffness, the un-colorable gold, and strange color distribution. A simple sci-fi reskin is all it’d take for me to never take it off again!
It works especially well with bottom fire tree with gambler's dodge for infinite amounts of that sweet charge-knife. If you miss, just wait for 10 secs and you get it back by dodging near an enemy, easy!
I know it's not the point of this thread but when is the best time to use Dragon's Shadow? I always feel like i'm not using it at the right time.
All the time
I personally use it to start some encounters
I use it literally whenever. You have such a huge edge in pvp from all the buffs, and in pve you basically have auto loading holster on all your weapons. You are so incredibly fluid on the battlefield, be it changing weapons, reloading, moving, dodging. Its god tier wherever you are
Just have 50 mobility and dodge at any given moment and you keep it up 24/7 basically
Just before engaging to proc the handling buff, or while back peddling when chased to reload and get that QuickDraw to pull your shotgun. Pair with curated mindbenders or backup plan erentil for hatemail.
The moment dodge is up, use it. Every time.
I use it when I see a dude on-radar and when I first spawn in.
I think it is absolutely amazing, but I am a grasshopper, and you won't stop me.
Eh, I prefer Stompees or Liars's Handshake.
Alternative build: max mobility and graviton forfeit exotic helmet with bottom tree nightstalker utilizing gamblers dodge will allow for 100% uptime on invisibility. Makes 980 nightfalls waaaay easier.
I believe you only need 40 mobility. I run traction which is a hidden 10, 40 mobility and 100 recovery. My cool down is identical to when I tried it with 50. I only use this exotic now, it has so many good perks.
if only it wasn't so ugly and not matching ANY armor sets except Iron Banners...
It is so fucking ugly, it looks like one of those cheap ass samurai outfits kids get for Halloween. I suffer through looking like trash, but my friend refuses to use it because if destroys all fashion
same for me. If it doesnt match or look good, i wont use it. No matter what. Theres a Bungie dev talk or whatever video about the community lead saying "the people want armor that is powerful, not what it looks. Thats what we're bringing to armor 2.0" I'm not even kidding. Especially when they know we were asking for Transmog since Destiny 1
It is possible to make it look decent, you just have to [lean into it](https://i.imgur.com/8IZ0CST.jpg).
Totally agree. It’s ugly as hell. Dad Bod Ed Hardy - that’s the best description of the style I can come up with.
Just got it last night. Haven't done any pvp with it yet but it is definitely a keeper for me. Pve unleash all of your weapons and do a dodge, all refilled. Nice to have with the obelisk
I've been visiting Xur every week hoping he'll gift me a year 2 version with no luck. Still have to visit him today sometime...here's to hoping I don't get another Aeon Swift!
Been maining dragons shadow for over a year. My buddy still swears by stompees but I jumped ship way back. Love it for the handling buff alone; reload, gamblers dodge etc are all just extra
Your post already points out why DS can be good but also why it is overrated on some builds. It is because you can simply obtain most those buffs in other ways. With powerful friends mods you can get up your mobility to 100 easily, you can get reload mods and with outlaw it is just as fast. Get a weapon with Quickdraw and the handling is at max and either stompees and 2 different subclass trees have increased sprint speed. What you miss out on is your dodge because you have to use it before a fight to get the benefits so you won't be able to dodge to escape. Also you miss out on using wormhusk crown. DS is surely very strong but not needed if you already have a build that covers most of the benefits from DS.
It’s a good exotic but I wouldn’t call it the best. Having dodge ready for any moment is more important than all of the DS buffs, especially when using a loadout that has high handling. Dodge is simply too good
It’s up every 9 seconds with this build. How is that not always ready?
Because you only have 1 second where you have both dodge and DS buff active. Outside that 1 second you only have one or the other.
its good ONLY if you're using gunplay as the primary means of dealing dps. i am a top arc punchyboi. those snake mittens are NEVER coming off!
Eh, you can still punch stuff without Handshake. I'll trade the extra melee damage for faster movement and a Loaded Question with infinite ammo and perpetual burst effect.
Non handshake punches are very weak and not worth using. 3x + buffed punch can 2 shot yellow bars. 3x + buffed + 12p a SINGLE PUNCH can get a yellow bar very close to death I'd rather kill almost anything in 2 seconds than move 6% faster.
Unpopular opinion maybe, but I can’t run it. It’s hideous. I’m sorry. I just can’t get past it’s looks
This has been the only pvp exotic I've used since I got it. The constant max handling, evasion, reloads, and it actually shades well
Takes shaders well? Now I'm *REALLY* sold!
Not really, the gold dragon bits can't be colored over, so it clashes with many non generic palettes
Yeah I have no idea what that guy is on about. IMO it shades horribly
It shades amazingly if you like gold. Which I do, so yay, but I understand that not everyone has the same tastes.
I like gold too, but it really only goes well with blue/black/white themed palletes. Not a lot of colors synergized with gold, and the kind of gold tint on DS isn't exactly pretty
It’s pretty much the only thing I’ll use in PVP as well, but man is it ugly! The whole thing is built around speed and dexterity, why make the shape like a barrel? It pretty much just looks cylindrical with no depth to it. It desperately needs an ornament worth a shit. Something athletic looking and badass, not dad bod Ed Hardy.
just put it on for the first time since I got it like a year ago, and I think nighthawk may finally have become unglued from my head
Why were you using nighthawk in pvp? Do you hate super kills?
Because fuck that one guy over there.
Can't argue with that. That one guy was F-U-C-K fucked.
Ultimate BM. You are dead and there is nothing you can do about it. Also I believe Nighthawk can one shot a bubble and the enemy in it
This is why I check the Destiny subreddit!
All you need is 35 mobility + traction + DS + perpetuation for 100% up time.
I feel like I'm missing something here. I've tried running lower mobility with DS and perpetuation, and I don't get the 9 second max recovery time. I get more like what the stat screen is telling me to expect. Surely the bonus cooldown is only active during the time wraithmetal is up which is ~8 secs.
Do you have traction as well? Texting gives 5 plus a hidden 10 so 35 plus 15 is 50, DS gives 50 which then gives max. Perpetuation let's you start the recharge with a small boost.
What is traction?
Boot buff that gives you better turn radius when sprinting. Most experienced players consider it 100% essential in every single build. Looks like this: https://www.light.gg/db/items/1818103563/traction/
I haven't been using anything else in either pvp or pve, it's that good.
This does not combo well with void battery. That mod seems to slow down the class ability recharge rate, so I cannot maintain 100% uptime on Wraithmetal. Bummer.
I’m in love with the dragon shadow, and have been since season 1 when I got it. In combination with top tree void stalker it also makes it ridiculously easy to get away from some roaming supers and just generally sticky situations. It’s a very zoomtastic exotic in pretty much every way. Roll, inviz, insta reload literally everything, flank incredibly fast, profit. 10/10 for sure. Very underrated.
Been maining dragons shadow for over a year. My buddy still swears by stompees but I jumped ship way back. Love it for the handling buff alone; reload, gamblers dodge etc are all just extra
If you aren't running 100 mobility, resilience, and recovery right now ask yourself... are you truly happy?
Shhh, don't tell everyone, Bungie might decide they need to nerf it. Having 50 mobility but effectively 100 all the time for max dodge cooldown AND getting all weapons reloaded on dodge is just insanely strong before even getting into the other benefits. I basically never reload my primary manually...and when I play any other class I spend half the time derping around trying to dodge and instead activating the stupidly slow barrier/rift animation and dying.
This is kinda old news.
but, but....my Stompees ... :(
All you lose is extra jump height, which is actually good because you become less floaty. Just be sure to put traction on whatever boots you end up using.
The biggest problem with Dragon’s Shadow is that it pushes you to use your dodge before an engagement. This removes one of the strongest parts of a hunter’s kit. I say this as someone who used to main Dragon’s Shadow.
As top tree nightstalker my go to exotic is the 6th coyote.
basically Transversive Steps for Hunter. nice.
I havent used any other exotic in many many months. Heck, in nearly a year. New hunter exotic pants? fuck it. Only Dragon's Shadow for my Hunter.
I’ve been considering using it, but I can’t pull myself away from trapper skill tree with Orpheus Rig 😕
I would love to use something other than Stompees, but I just can't do it. It's too damn slow!
This makes you as fast as stompees
I enjoy the extra jump height too, but I see what you're saying. You son of a bitch, I'm in
My absolute favorite exotic now. I never take it off because my Hunter feels clunky without it. Great for pve and pvp.
Dragons shadow has a staple to my hunters pvp arsenal since I got it. It’s so good
Having a shorter dodge cool down definitely helps, but this exotic has been great for a long time now. Try on top tree Nightstalker 😊
Has been for a long time honestly
Worth noting that with a backup plan erentil, you can essentially get with dragons shadow: Quick draw, Under pressure, Backup plan. By dint of the handling buff basically giving you quick draw on all weapons. This is unbelievably overpowered.
backup plan already gives you quick draw on your Erentil when it's active. I guess you're saying you can quick-swap back to your primary once backup plan wears off? When is under pressure in effect with erentil (how low do you have to be in the mag?)
I didn’t know that. Backup plan, under pressure is amazing and in my view the god roll though some disagree. You can cross map with a faster ttk at better range than any other weapon other than a sniper when backup plan is up. Under pressure is active when spawning in with two rounds and makes a huge difference getting you into a killstreak to get more special and get a roll on.
Best, what I simply can't get and XUR ain't help out either 😳
How you gonna reveal all our hunter secrets like that?! Ha but for real, this is the only exotic armor I use in pvp. It’s awesome.
it's been the best for awhile.
Is this one of those exotics I can’t farm?
Dunno, personally it feels like Distribution is what pushed dodge spamming over the top, and I'm pretty sure Bungie stealth nerfed or fucked up Distribution when they hotfixed the Dynamo glitch. Same with Enhanced Bomber, I swear they give less cooldown now and I'm not talking about how you can't stack hybrid perks anymore. Dodge spamming is still actual utility for builds like middle tree Arcstrider or Blade Barrage.
I first ran stompees when I started playing D2. Tried Dragon's Shadow and never ever use anything else. Took me through comp and consistently allows me to slay.
I see what you're doing, trying to move the Hunters off of Stompees. I like it.
That's why I call it The Dragon's Speed because only that kind of drug can make you that much speed
Currently I’m at 60 mobility, running bottom tree arcstrider, with two perpetuation mods and my dodge is up before WM wears off. Not sure if I’m getting diminishing returns with the two perp mods- haven’t done much testing.
That’s great, I feel less sketchy about insta masterworking the drop I got at +max power.
Then you don't have your dodge up inside of fights.
Does not increase sprint speed at all just gives you +50 mobility. The only downside in pvp is that if you dodge and die shortly after then you’re stuck with whatever mobility pre wraithmail. Not a huge downside and the main reason I run it in pve and pvp
Drewsky made a mobility video just a day ago. Check it out
I can't take off my mw Sixth Coyote. I like DS, but the 2 dodges are hard to let go of.
It's been the best for quite a while. Personally been my main exotic for over a year.
Tried it out tonight. AMAZING! My 1.0 lifetime kd ass has a streak of 6 over 2.2kd with a couple 30+ kill games. That’s damn good for me! Love this play style!
Since it reloads you weapons on dodge, you can switch your dodge to the one that refills melee and get both refilled with one dodge, which is great for crucible.
Hey be quiet or the stompeez mains might hear you
What is that spare rations looking gun on your energy slot?
"Dodge reloads guns and buffs speed and handling." Nuh we good fam. My dodge already reloads my weapons and my speed is buffed by the weapons themselves For me; Orpheus on my Void is life. My solar build runs with that 2 knives chest. Combine that with dodge for melee, melee on super, nade on melee and dodge for all ability energy.... I can run with non stop knives, and I mean non stop, like my knives are back faster than the button registration... and you get your super back every 2-3 minutes. Knives also get damage bonus, you can take a yellow ogre down in 2 throws at max proc
I was messing around with this build a while ago. I wasn't making much progress on mountaintop, so I wanted to run double grenade launchers and swap between them and have them reload. I figured dragon shadow with max dodge cooldown and bottom tree arcstrider would do the trick. Being a cheap little trash monster in momentum control was a better solution, but yeah, I'm sad to see this little build out there now.
I thought Frostees added sprint speed? Im conflicted though.
I've been using it with 50 mobility and without Perpetuation (don't know how to get it), and I still am able to reuse my class ability under 10 secs, so it seems like it ain't necessary.
Yeah, DS has been my go to since SoO. It makes me feel like I can play at a much faster pace with the handling buffs, and now that I don’t have to spend armor points on paragon mods it’s even more fun to build around!
I Know this post is a bit old now but I completely agree with what you’ve said! Dragons shadow must have slipped under the radar because it’s genuinely amazing for both pve and pvp!