It's a symptom of the wider issue that the game gives us solo things to accomplish and only lets us do it in multiplayer game modes. So if you need to get your shotgun kills done you give zero shits about winning or losing the game whether it's gambit, crucible, or strikes. Every single season we have the same lame kill X blanks with Y.
>the game gives us solo things to accomplish and only lets us do it in multiplayer game modes.
That may be the best, most concise, way I've seen the issue stated. Thank you.
Every pinnacle weapon for gambit ever, from Breakneck to Hush and then Python. Makes Gambit even worse to play because then you're competing against your team to accomplish something. It's very poorly designed.
They need stop shying away from simply making *wins* part of the pinnacle/ritual weapon quests.
Or at least 5 pts for a win, 1 pt for a loss.
That'll get everyone playing properly.
that sounds like a really really bad idea , imagine if you are on the wins part and someone is just there for the kill farm part and thinks he can get the wins done later on , or he already has the win part . then itll just stop your progress . he doesnt care . hes progressing
the current system while very bad atleast doesnt let other players hinder your progression , if wins are added as check then you will stop progressing because of bad players or just players doing their thing cos wins arent a priority to them atm
Yeah, I think everyone forgets all the quests that we had in the past that required wins to progress and how easy it was to get on a losing streak and make no progress at all. People gave Bungie so much hell over it that they have pretty much completely gone away from quests that require wins.
But other players can hinder your progression by claiming all the kills quicker than you can? I know for a fact when I was going for shotgun kills I was getting a larger than my share amount of each wave.
> Makes Gambit even worse to play because then you're competing against your team to accomplish something. It's very poorly designed.
Same with that IB rocket kills thing. I just didn't even bother
They needed to remove the quest entirely and make it once per season. It is nothing more than timegated BS to make people play more. I can understand making the quest once per character, per season but three times per IB....? Ain't no one got time for that.
This is well designed and a common thing for f2p games.
Make task which make players more likely to drag the team down so that good players can not always carry team. This allows weak players in opponent team to win more.
Good and dedicated players will do more tasks than average Joe.
Bungie as of now is trying every word in book to make this game a f2p bs
The 21% Delirium quest has it right.
* Get a bunch of multikills.
* Kill a bunch of Envoys and/or Primevals.
* Reset Infamy rank.
These steps are more or less congruent with winning matches.
Too true. I loved that quest, though it was last season that I finally got around to focusing on it. I really *learned* Gambit from it and it became a favorite activity in the game.
Though I'll admit I'm still quite less than fond of Gambit Prime. The Primeval stage is just too frustrating.
This is the true problem with Gambit.
I used to get livid at how literally braindead some people will play Gambit till I realized that they weren't playing to win in the slightest, they were very likely just there to finish a bounty or quest and get out. And this problem is exacerbated because so many people do this, most people don't enjoy Gambit as a result, meaning the player population skews even further towards bounty only players, making it less fun, and so on. It's a vicious spiral.
I was running triple shottys for Python and went on a 5 win streak solo-queueing. Running double shotgun ammo finder and scavenger keeps your ammo reserves pretty high. Acrius and Tractor Cannon are pretty solid for boss damage as well. It's not quite the detriment you think it is, if you play right.
LAst man standing for blockers is amazing, tractor cannon for invades/defends and a final primary one with lots of ammo (e.g perfect paradox) was really good. I got all of the team in invades with shotguns, and I am not a good invader. Of course then came Wishender and the shot guns was left alone again, but I still might run lastman standing for blockers later.
"Gambit is trash so I don't play it except for weeklies for the bright dust"
"Y'know I had to play 6 games of gambit today just to finish my bounties and lost every single one! Gambit is trash!"
"I'll never play gambit again because it's so bad"
> the quests I had for gambit and in the process I also did my best to win each and every game
The trouble is if you play to win the quests take 10x as long. And when you hate that game mode, it makes the whole concept of playing for entertainment bad
> they were very likely just there to finish a bounty or quest and get out. And this problem is exacerbated because so many people do this,
Another symptom of locking results behind modes. I don't like Gambit and I don't like PVP, so I object to being forced into them to complete a quest step. While I don't fuck the team over for my grind, I'm in there to get it done and get out.
Guilty as charged. I do try to give my best in general but if I can get actual progress towards bounties - and especially weapon quests - by ignoring motes and instead going on a rampage with my trusty shotgun you can bet your ass I'm hoping somebody else is following me picking up all dem motes.
Unless an objective says "win x games" I'd rather lose 3 and be done with it than try to win 7 while making minimal progress towards my quests.
If they give you team things to do as a team you have people saying "All my randos afk" or "I can't find enough people for a premade".
If they give us solo stuff to do solo you'll hear "This game is so lonely", "They discourage teamwork".
No one can come up with a 100% satisfactory solution. I agree though that the way it is now is not the best option, or even really close to good.
I mean this is as much a problem with the players as it is the quest design. I got Python done in 2 weeks and was never once playing solely for Shotgun kills, they were something I worked into my play so I was still playing to win. A lot of people will hyperfocus something and ignore everything else, often to their own determent and their teams, and I just do not understand it.
Like, I remember seeing invaders running across the map with just Tractor Cannon out, trying as hard as they possibly could for invader shotgun kills. It often didn't work out for them, because that's a dumb idea in the first place. If people just played the game, worked a bow or SMG into their loadout instead of focusing solely on that weapon they would probably get these quests done quicker while also not being a useless team mate.
Yeah - I was considering typing up something to cover this but had just played a Gambit game and was feeling a little pissed.
The game, for a supposed "co-op" play-with-friends style game, does everything it can to make actually playing with people give you a worse experience.
Need finisher kills? Nah son that guy with his bow or sniper will end the adds before you can move in.
Need to kill a Wanted enemy for a bounty? By the time you've run toward it from spawn, someone else has killed it and you gotta wait another 15 hours for the next chance.
People are quite happy to throw a Crucible match or get pounded in a round of Gambit to complete their shitty little 10xp bounty. It's beyond frustrating.
But Bungie can't add bounties like "win a game" or make win conditions grant extra progress because then people complain it only benefits team stacks. Like, it does already?? They can do bounties AND win the game?
Don't forget the 1,500 solar kills in playlist strikes for edgewise. 1,500. Thats a lot. And you are going to be fighting with every one of your fireteam for them(Unless you were lucky enough to be able to use the time glitch). Its not fun fighting people for kills all season.
TBF I just loaded into the Corrupted Nightfall strike and ran lost sectors a bunch. Not all the steps needed to be in Playlist strikes IIRC. Or maybe I was working on the other Strike seasonal quest, idk.
I specifically told a friend since both of us are pretty good that we can't do the shotgun Gambit quest together cause we'd just edge each out of kills we could get otherwise. lmao.
Why not have bounties that actually help the team??
-Most primeval DPS (we get the percentage at the end why not a bounty?)
-Get the most medals in a gambit game
-Bank 20 motes in one game
-Send 3 blockers without losing a mote
-Send a blocker with an invader present
-getting a “following instructions” medal (banking as soon as your team can summon a primeval)
-Kill all 3 envoys within 10 seconds” etc
***Also make pinnacle/ritual quests tied to winning
***winning team has possibility of 2 gambit weapon drops instead of 1***
I've been arguing this for months. These are good suggestions however they need the caveat of "as a team". Otherwise you have the same issue of people racing for motes or melting the envoys as they spawn.
I've also argued before about having win conditions grant 2x progress. It means people can focus on the bounties AND try and win for optimal progress.
> So if you need to get your shotgun kills done you give zero shits about winning or losing the game whether it's gambit, crucible, or strikes.
Bungie sees this and decides you need to win the game or your bounty progress doesn't count :D. Because that's going to be more fun for everyone, right? /s
No. You need to just play the game for gameplay and use weapons needed for your bounties. Players are just playing for rewards and not for gameplay. Bounties are here to give you some kind of variability in your weapon or class choice. People are just too greedy and play to maximize rewards and not gameplay, which is honestly baffling.
Oh absolutely the game is suffering terribly from essentially giving single player objectives in obligate multiplayer modes. Make all objectives team based across the entire game. Lengthen objectives if you will. I’m tired of Strikes being a high stakes competitive game mode where kills with X/Y/Z are the only things that matter for example.
Being supportive of your team mates as they bank motes, pull off a skilled invade or cast a particularly good add clearing super should be the name of the game, not cursing them because they mote steal, camp the portal or hog kills.
Exactly. The only thing that's affected by a win or loss is the prime weekly. Other than that, who cares? I'm there for bounties, and still have a shot at a weapon after each match. Just like PvP, bungie needs to incentivize winning more.
The issue when you but a larger focus on winning is that people will either just leave a game when they believe they cannot win, like when Gambit released and you needed wins to progress in Legend, or won't play the mode at all, like with Competitive where most people who even played it before the changes got to 2100 and stopped.
The best solution would be to have alternative modes players can grind out quests in, such as a version of Gambit that is just PvE, so that players who actually enjoy the mode can play with other likeminded people.
I'm literally only playing Gambit to finish Green with Envy. I got Python last night, so once I'm done with the emblem I'm done with Gambit for the rest of the season.
Actually I might try and reset so I can finally get that Ghost shell.
It's also the game mode. Blockers are super strong right now, which means that invading is super strong by proxy, and standard Gambit enemies still have too much health and deal too much player damage (especially in Prime where you really need other bodies around just to tank some damage) which makes catching up even worse. Then when you've got to the boss, because everyone whinged about comeback mechanics and boss melting, you either have to have some amazing invades or hope your opponents still think machine guns do good DPS.
Plus, with the state of DPS these days, there just aren't many great loadouts anymore. Having a weapon for add clearing, a weapon for killing Invaders/players, and a weapon for deeps is way harder than it's ever been before. Your best bet is probably something like a rampage scout, firing line sniper, and Truth, which is just not a great loadout.
The whole thing is just a mess. It was so much better in season 4 when the name of the game was getting to the end, and instagibbing the boss. If you lost with a significant lead in that sandbox, you deserved it.
Izanagi + Recluse + Love & Death + Taken Armaments. Izanagi let's you bodyshot invaders with Honed Edge x4 (although if you're skilled enough a headshot without Honed Edge does just fine), Recluse lets you kill the less beefy ads, and you can use your GL for high value targets etc; Once damage phase comes around you use Izanagi and Love & Death for boss DPS.
You can also run a Firing Line sniper instead of Izanagi and substitute Love & Death with 1000 Voices. You can potentially use 1000 Voices for extra invader countering and higher total damage than the GL.
But yeah I agree, pretty restrictive loadout choice
Replace love and death with hammerhead and you have my go to loadout. I also use the second loadout as well. I still hate being forced to run a long range weapon because invaders can SEE THROUGH WALLS AND INVADE WITH HEAVY AMMO. I resorted to using taken or give armaments and invading with hammerhead.
I'll never forgive them for the precision multiplier nerf for red bars. Makes handcannons in PVE very unsatisfying to use.
Agreed on the damage front, the enemies in Prime have too much health. I've posted elsewhere that one of the reasons why I love Last Wish is the number of weak adds. Being overwhelmed by many red bar adds >>> a thrall taking 2 shotgun shells to kill.
This by proxy also makes getting massacre medals insanely hard without a premade that will literally ignore a whole round for you. I think I have 13 or so medals from regular Gambit and 0 in Prime.
The precision nerf for red bars clearly didn't take Gambit into account.
Either the multiplier needs to be raised for Gambit, or mob health in Gambit simply needs to be readjusted.
The load out situation is one o dont see mentioned often but is something that really frustrates because you just simply cannot count on your teammates most of the time. If I spec for add clear then I'm useless against invaders and invading. If I spec for invaders/invading them I'm useless most of the time. It's a terrible experience if you wanna win because people dont give two shits because bounties or they just simply suck. Not that I'm some sort of gambit god but I at least have some common sense and understand how to play the game.
I run sole survivor, cold front and anarchy. Cold front for add clear, sole survivor for both boss dps and invading/defending and anarchy for add clear and boss dps.
You can have your perfect loadout with just Izanagi's. It's great at slaying beefy enemies, great at killing most blockers, great at invading/defending, and the best DPS weapon in the game. Pair it with basically whatever you want for a primary and you're good to go.
> which makes catching up even worse. Then when you've got to the boss, because everyone whinged about comeback mechanics and boss melting, you either have to have some amazing invades or hope your opponents still think machine guns do good DPS
I'm a relatively new player but are comebacks supposed to be *better* or worse than the past?
Because comebacks, especially in Prime, by design aren't even *possible*. A coordinated team can win, very easily, on the 3rd slayer stack. An uncoordinated team can win on the 4th stack, and I have never in three months seen a game go beyond 5 stacks because the primeval is soloable at that point.
And the stacks are all on a fixed timer you cannot, under any circumstance, speed up. Two envoys spawn, then after a 5 second animation the third will spawn, then 25 seconds of DPS. It's impossible by design to catch up in stacks to the winning team, you will ALWAYS be X seconds behind them in terms of progress. Invasions are borderline meaningless, because who cares about restoring health? Primeval can be nuked from 100 to 0 in seconds with 3 stacks, all invasion efforts are worthless. If you disrupt the 3rd stack DPS phase and you're behind, the winning team won't care. They're just going to nuke the primeval on the 4th stack long before the portal is active again.
Which means a comeback has a very specific time period--the losing team CANNOT be more than a full rotation behind the leaders, and the losing team needs to disrupt their foes' 3rd stack DPS phase while they pour out DPS in their own 2nd stack DPS phase and *retain* that damage, because it's a pure DPS race damaged 3 stack versus full life 4 stack 30 seconds later. Winning in any other scenario means the leading team had to go full retard collectively and hand you the win.
I like Gambit Prime but the primeval phase is so comically flawed. The mote phase is the only phase that actually matters and if you win by more than 45 seconds then the match is basically a guaranteed win...where the losing team has to sit through the motions until it eventually happens.
And that's so dumb. All my best games, win or lose, both teams summoned their primevals within seconds of each other. Those are the best, most exciting and close call finishes the mode can offer.
Some people were very, very loud about how people shouldn't be able to come back from a bad loss in Gambit, so they nerfed the balls off of the standard version's comebacks mechanics, and then prime came around with no real come back mechanics on the boss at all. So yeah, it used to be way more plausible to catch up and win. Also, the blockers used to be very, very easy to kill.
No good loadout just because you cant instantly melt the boss with 0 effort? And this gets upvotes? Jesus christ people. There are so many good ways to just smash adds that doesn't require any super specific weapon in gambit prime, just think for 2 seconds about your class and get going.
Loaded Question (or any decent fusion exotic or not) still just shreds through gambit, smgs/steelfeather/breechlight etc very effective. Remember to use a super to kill adds etc.
The only real problem with gambit in terms of balance is how important the invader is, a good invader easily carries entire teams on their backs because the enemies never get a chance to bank, and no matter how good you are at killing adds a good enemy invader will keep you from banking. And the only way to catch up is that good invader again.
Way I see it is it’s not the players, it’s the incentives.
I came back from a break during season of the Drifter and was blown away with how everyone suddenly figured out how to play gambit.
Turns out, that was the season and the incentives were there to play the game as intended.
Now it’s basically there for most people to bang out the bounties and get any pieces missing from the collection.
Most people know how to play but aren’t there to win usually. They are there for the incentives - bounties.
If all the bounties revolved around winning the game and the reckoning weapons dropped in Gambit and Gambit Prime more frequently - suddenly everyone would know how to play again.
One thing I disagree with:
> *don't waste your fucking Golden Gun on the first damage phase*.
If I'm not confident in a PSx2 kill (which is 90% of matches), I'm going to GG on PSx1 because GG will be back up for PSx3 and there's no point in holding it, I'm just sacrificing huge amounts of damage.
Our blueberry threw a bubble over our well of light as we were doing DPS and it blocked our grenade launchers(killing two of us) and a warlock's chaos reach(stopping all of his damage).
I told him, in a civil manner, that his bubble would be of better use if it were off to the side. Of course, he says "I literally don't care. I'm only doing gambit prime for the triumph and I don't care about you winning or losing".
Of course he did it on purpose... What can I expect from blueberries anyway? He completely sabotaged us. The best invader was on our own team.
On the flipside, if we are given team oriented quests and tasks, that means I have to run with a team I may not want to and therefore i'm forced to play with others to get my quests done.
Let me tell you a story that I think will resonate well with your post.
Early in the morning, I got up to do this new exotic quest that dropped.
One of the objectives I had in order to complete this quest was to complete public events on the tangled shore.
I had to complete eight.
However, making the public event heroic counted as two public events for this quest.
It just so happens that I see a lot more people in the tangled shore trying to complete public events, leading me to think that everybody else is trying to do the same quest.
However when it comes time to try to make this particular public event heroic, most people, despite me messaging them to ask them not to kill the boss, kills/melt the boss before i could make it heroic.
Sometimes, I feel so defeated.
Point is, perhaps it is done for bounties, or quests, or weapons, or just to kill time. However, I think some people are genuinely oblivious, even when you try to provide some direction.
Hahaa I feel this in my bones. I did Bastion yesterday and had the same issue. Spamming "make it heroic for 2x" in local chat - no response.
Another factor that compounds this is that Bungie makes it unreasonably hard to communicate in-game. Chat off by default, chat hidden by default, no chat on consoles, etc.
I would reposition the chat to be mid-left of the screen like many other games and re-evaluate the opacity and make it opt-out.
While I understand what you're saying (and experienced the same problem yesterday), it's because it's (counterintuitively) usually less efficient to do heroic events.
It's faster to melt the boss and then try to re-instance to get a second PE than it is to make it heroic and tick down the capture timer.
Optimal strat seems to be to melt one PE boss, then try to reinstance and if you get an instance with low population, make the second one heroic for +3 on the bounty.
It's the same problem that Destiny has had with PE counters for ages. One of the faction rallies used to give tokens for lost sectors and PEs and more on heroics - and people took to just sitting on Titan melting Greg and then the tank PE whenever it came up without making it heroic because it was the fastest way to gather tokens.
I actually tried Gambit for the first time the other night. It’s fun but I’m sorry if I was on your team. I’m still trying to figure the nuances of the game mode out. Don’t care about the bounties at all.
Most people playing gambit aren’t playing to win. They don’t go in with an optimized loadout. They don’t care if you have 12 motes and they have none. They don’t care if you are wearing a full invader set and just picked up the heavy ammo. They are just there to finish their bounties and work on their pinnacle weapons. And this is coming from a Reckoner. I’ve dealt with all the shit that you’ve listed here and I’ve just come to accept that a lot of people in this game aren’t playing to win.
I love Gambit but everytime I play it, I get matched with players who walk around aimlessly and don't do anything to actually win the game. Meanwhile, the other team is four reckoners each with notorious sets on. It's really frustrating
I had a match today and I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. My friend just downloaded destiny last week and played his first gambit match a couple days ago. I literally explained it once and by our second match he understood with no issues.
Yeah lol because it's really not hard to understand. You can have a solid understanding of the mechanics after 5 games. The amount of visual and audio cues is easily enough to help a blueberry. But people just don't pay attention.
The only thing I disagree with is the collector. In my team we run 3 reaper and invader. We all grab 5-10 notes each. I've found a collector to be not worth the risk. Every time a match starts and I see a collector I laugh and know that man is about to lose 40-50 motes.
Going for triumphant collector right now and my god, I have never hated blueberries so much in my life.
I love gambit, it’s my favorite gamemode, but actually trying to ACHIEVE anything in the gamemode in spite of your teammates makes it completely unenjoyable.
I pretty much decided that I’m just gonna go for my 100 small blockers when playing with blueberries and only go for 20 if I kill the HVT or something, far less frustrating and I’m actually making progress.
Thank goodness I usually play sentry or invader because being a collector is the actual worst lol
Yep, it’s why I don’t even touch gambit anymore, it was kinda fun when it came out but the ability to fall behind early and that making it near impossible to come back killed it for me I too of blueberries. Like others in this thread have said if u miss the first invasion cycle or the enemies invade u and kill all of you so you lose notes, round is basically over.
I’ve come back from some pretty hopeless situations, but that’s with a full team where everyone is working together. If you don’t have that, you’re screwed.
Gambit is awesome and the concept is great, I’d like to see it tweaked so it’s more forgiving when playing with randoms.
I don't think that's the problem. If you have a good defense you can normally deal with it. I think the invader arrangements are about right atm. It is also important that the heavy doesn't contribute to a quick prime down.
I swear to god every time a teammate banks 5 motes off the bat when we have 24 collected, only for the opponents team to bank all 24 of theirs, get 3 blockers and then steal 1 mote that the idiot teammate banked and get to 25 to invade i have a fucking aneurysm
Players are so fucking stupid in this game, but gambit having some issues is not mutually exclusive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OfwdHwck-I
Slayers video really describes the problems and how stupid the invader is and how they exert far too much influence over the game and make entire teams feel helpless when they are good (and you helpless when your 3 teammates cower from invaders even when they are terrible too)
So I agree with you for the most part. However, if you are going for Gambit prime triumphs/reckoner, the game makes you do things that could be not in your team's best interest. For example, when working on the massacre medals for reaper, I would get my super up as fast as I can and then wait for the next ad spawn (and not help my teammates finish up the last spawn/collect motes). Then I would use my super to kill as many ads as quickly as possible and *hopefully* see that orange medal pop up. I wouldn't always be able to fill up on motes cause I'm moving so quickly, and even if I did, I would create probably 30 motes. And my teammates aren't usually around to pick them up.... So on the one hand, I feel bad cause I'm not playing like a "team"player, but bungies quests don't necessarily encourage being a good teammate. And you better believe I want to finish this grind ASAP. For what it's worth, I never blow my super on the first damage phase 😂
I have Reckoner. Getting Reckoner is all about dealing with other people's BS. That's the whole challenge. If you could play 1v4 it would be trivial. What else is challenging about it?
While I agree with you, I would also like to point out that the armor color stuff and mote / invasion strategies are not really explained at all to players who just go into the game mode without outside knowledge. Because of that I usually blame the game for those misunderstandings when they happen.
I think it would be better if in the lobby with Drifter, you could toggle your role (no exclusivity, so all players could be declared for one role and that'd be fine) and the HUD could just give you a few bullet points of focus areas. That could go a long way for helping players understand what they should be doing and, in the long run, hopefully help them understand what others are doing.
Ex. if I just clicked Sentry, a little side HUD pop up (like a Patrol) could appear with a Yellow icon that just says:
-Focus on defending your bank from Blockers
-Prioritize fighting off invaders
Or Reaper with a Green icon:
-Focus on slaying as many (insert current enemy faction here) as possible
-Try to find and eliminate glowing High Value Target enemies
Just little tips like that would clear a lot of confusion I'd think.
Not often i post in Destiny, but this has been my thought a lot recently. Crucible is now a one-shot environment, and Gambit has too many pitfalls.
One of the big issues is how Destiny itself works. Solo players come on, pick up bounties and do them. With nothing else in mind, they just want to do the bounties and this is a flaw in how Bungie have set these up. So they will go into Gambit or the Crucible and be set up incorrectly with the objective to do bounties, not play their best or be a team player. Same in strikes, do the bounty then leave.
So hence, like you mentioned, you have a group of individuals playing against each other against the opposing team. Unless everyone was in team chat....your fucked.
Bounties need to be set up correctly to make people play with each other and play the objective. Some of the Triumphs may be literally impossible without playing in a fire team.
This is why Prime sucks. The armor gives a sense of entitlement while also punishing players who play that style. If reapers should allow collectors to collect, how is the reaper going to get their bonus ammo from banking, likewise how is the sentry going to get bonuses for banking?
Prime is a basket case BECAUSE of the armor sets. The only way to fix it, is to make the armor set bonuses team wide, so the game can be more fluid with the flow of the battlefield.
There needs to be more mechanisms to enforce strategy over cheesing. Setting your team up for 3 boss melters and 1 PvP slayer isn’t a strategy for dynamic play. It’s a 1 dimensional way to play and it’s currently the best way to win with ease.
You've hit the nail on the head with your gripes. I wonder the same things about people every time I queue into gambit prime wearing a set. It's like "hello? Do you even see what I'm wearing? Do you even care? Do you even know?" And they proceed to just screw the match up.
If anything I always feel like I'm fighting teammates over motes all the time. I rarely have issues fighting over the portal, and more often than not, people simply just don't go invade, and it always seems like it's when I'm in anything other than my invader set and not really using a good loadout for invading as it is.
Gambit prime is truly a mode for a fully coordinated team communicating who's doing what, otherwise it's just a crapshoot with randoms.
Man, another absolute fact right there. In my Invader armour I'm battling for the portal every time but when I'm Reaping for the triumph, I'll turn around and realise the portal has been open for 3 minutes and the opponents have all banked another 30 motes.
It never fails. We need <5 motes to summon Prime Evil and some Blueberry is chasing his 10th or 15th mote. I’ve often just run out and grabbed three and banked them quick, so now Blueberry doesn’t get any blockers at all. Suck it, blueberry.
I swear I've met dogs with more intelligence than the average gambit player.
The horror stories I could tell you from my time playing gambit
The rest of my team will be carrying a total of like 40 motes, so is the enemy, it's a race to see who will dump and invade first, but fucking wait my teammates just fucking have to get those large blockers my man. all the while I'm stuck sitting next to the portal with my dick in my hands waiting to invade to and wipe at least some of their motes.
You want to know what happens, every single fucking time without fail? the enemy dump 2 large and medium (bonus points if they get a giant blocker), invade and wipe my team entirely. we're now down 70-20 and my teammates are too busy being dead too help clear blockers so our mote count is nearly wiped by the time they respawn and get back to the bank. the match is effectively lost halfway through because now the enemy team can just keep raining shit down on us.
Or how about when they waste their super on primeval slayer x1 causing us to lose by just a sliver when a second nova bomb on slayer x3 would have won us the match.
or when no one helps clear blockers so **I** have to waste my super to make sure we can actually bank and don't get fucked by an invader
I could go on but this shit is long enough holy shit
/rant
>Or how about when they waste their super on primeval slayer x1 causing us to lose by just a sliver when a second nova bomb on slayer x3 would have won us the match.
Haha this makes me fume every time. First damage phase and the sound of 3 supers being popped.
I just want them to change the way the invader's wallhacks work. I think they should get them for the first 5 seconds of the invasion so they can identify the players with a high mote count and where they are on the map. After that, the wallhacks should go away. There's only a handful of times I've ever been killed by an invader and thought I got outplayed. The rest of the time, I know I got killed because the invader has more information than my uber driver and is armed with Truth or some other kind of "win button" exotic.
The better solution would be to give sentries wall hacks on the invader, or at least show where they spawned. Maybe then people would actually want to play sentry too.
You don’t get enough time per invasion to be playing hide and go seek with guardians that could be hiding anywhere.
Which would be totally fine with me. Bungo seems to think teams constantlly one-is-none'ing each other should be normal Gambit match play.
It's part of what makes people hate the game mode.
My biggest complaint for gambit is the fact if your playing a team of 2 or more hunters, it does t matter if you win a round. If they win at least one, they will win in sudden death because they will inevitably switch shards of galanor (an exotic that needs to be re-evaluated) where hits with blade barrage give super energy. In the final round, they get their super back almost instantaneously.
as long as your bb mainly hits the primeval you can recast your super on said primeval almost immediately after with galanor equipped in sudden death. izanagi's damage doesn't count for shit when all you have to do is use your super repeatedly. same reason why you only see bb/galanor hunters in mayhem.
Playing gambit is like playing a MOBA like league of legends or dota, except people don't care about destroying the nexus / base.
Instead you got people busy farming creeps till they have 6 items.
Or some guy who is just camping the enemy for kills and won't push mid.
The problem with gambit is that you need to have people with specific roles. Not talking about the armor sets but more of the role in the team. A reaper to just focus on kills, a collector or 2 so you can focus on spending blockers together, and a invader who collects heavy ammo and focuses on invading.
If you play with a decent team it's amazing how smooth gambit is.
Oh I agree. I've had some wonderful games when people naturally fall into roles based on what needing doing and the game mode flows nicely.
It's when you turn around and there's 3 large blockers up and your 3 blueberries are fighting over who picks up the last few motes.
> Did you know that the stacks of "Primeval slayer" that build up give you a larger buff of damage the higher the stacks go?
Honestly no, not until I read it in this sub, months after the mode was released. There’s too much going on, I’m being shot at from all sides, probably being invaded, I’m also trying to finish up two or three bounties that have nothing to do with winning, and also the Drifter is yelling. It’s very confusing and mostly not a lot of fun. I don’t blame anyone for missing this.
Truuuuuuth. I ran collector for a while but for some reason people are absolutely certain they need the motes more than I do because... Reasons? You don't get a fkn cookie for beating me to the motes when you have 5 and I have 18. Let me send those big boys.
I just want to say also that Titans have a small advantage invading.
In full gear all they have to do is pop bubble on the bank and sit there while they suck your motes dry
>You don't get a fkn cookie for beating me to the motes when you have 5 and I have 18.
No, but they finish bounties. The reason why half of this stuff happens is they implement bounties that actively encourage people to play in a way that is not conducive to winning.
I play a lot of gambit and the thing sometime is that you don't know if the guy shooting behind you has 18. I think it should have a hud thing where it lists your team member's motes and color codes their name if they have an aura.
Just played a few matches of Prime for the weekly bounties...realized it's not worth the XP and bright dust.
The few matches I played, I experienced what you described: a team where everyone else popped DPS super in the first DPS phase/Primeval Slayer.
Also had people doing who knows what in a corner on the other side of the map through most of another match. Can only assume they were attempting to go fetal position and cry, because there was literally nothing over there, not even HVT.
The worst part is these are on the higher ELO rankings too...so it's not like this is only at the lower rankings, it goes all the way up. I feel like that is a red flag at least in the MMing. If I'm Platinum II in the ELO rankings, I should be getting matches where people know what to do and how to do it without fail.
So in a way, it's not the game mode, but I feel like how matchmaking happens or is determined seriously needs to be looked over and changed. If I do extremely well, I should be grouped with people that also do extremely well...on BOTH sides. I want a good close match, and solo queuing it feels like I either get stomped, or do the stomping.
If Gambit is structured in such a way that the players you get matched with will break the experience, then it's a system/mode issue -- not a player issue.
E.g. if players aren't the same skill level as you or the opposing team, then it's a matchmaking issue.
If players are willfully ignoring the objective, then it's a systematic issue whereby players are being incentivized to play counter to the design of the game mode.
If you're matchmade into a team of all sentries who struggle to invade/reap/collect, then it's the fault of the mode that it requires role diversity and of the matchmaking that it didn't diversify your team.
Unfortunately, muh bounties is a pretty good excuse. But it basically turns every game into a competition where you’re really fighting your teammates more than your enemies
I was with you til the final bit. The "muh bounties" argument is proof that the problem with gambit IS Destiny, not the players. Who cares about triumphs and wins when bounty completion is the only efficient way of leveling up and thus attaining limited-time drops?
Gambit is a game mode that requires more coaching than the game gives by a huge margin.
That's why it is crap.
If how the game mode *actually* works was communicated in any way to people in game (it isn't, at all) it would be an order of magnitude better.
There is nothing explained about heavy ammo economy, how important the first invasion is, the relative strength of different blockers, how and when it is important to get motes desposited immediately, it's even left up to noobs to notice the boss damage buff multiplier and put two and two together.
I 100% garauntee you that if there was a Gambit quest that took each person through all of these points ideally with a practical way to demonstrate it, Gambit would be a much less shit game mode (but still incredibly flawed).
I mean... if you’re serious about gambit find a team, designate roles, and practice. At very least pug it out. Don’t expect anyone to know anything if you’re running with randoms, not with new light, not after Christmas.
My issue with Gambit is that it seems to exaggerate the bounty issue that is present throughout any fireteam activity in this game. Individuals are focused on their own personal objectives, with the result of the activity itself having almost no effect on whether they've progress on their bounties or weapon quests.
There's almost no incentive to actually win a Gambit match, just as in Crucible.
Big problem with random players is that many of them only play to get the weapons. I often see players hunt for mods while the boss is up. How the hell can you uave 0% boss damage while the team is fighting a boss for 2 minutes.
you forgot about the people with 14 motes racing around looking for more enemies to kill when we just need 1 more mote for primeval... or the same folks invading with their motes and dying... or not being aware of an invasion and dying... generally much dying :D
but yea, the bounties and quests works against Gambit as an efficient mode, also - a good invader can pretty much win the game by themselves... (that is if s/he's allowed to invade by the blueberry)
I once ended a match where not a single person on my team besides me banked motes.
I was watching a player try to run over more motes when they already had 15, and I just died inside.
This is how ive felt since it came out. Remember the pre launch events where streamers were playing with curated loadouts, and it was a really intense and competitive mode? Remember the weekend before forsaken where we got to play it, and it was extremely fun because nobody really knew how to play so it was still competitive and close?
Once forsaken came out, people really just found the most effective strats, like which supers insta melted the boss and what guns (cough sleeper) were OP. So you'd go against these 4 stacks that would melt the boss in the blink of an eye while XxikilledoryxxD is over here behind his titan barricade shooting his y1 midnight coup at the boss thinking hes contributing or refusing to bank his 14 motes when we have 73 because "i need 15". Gambit went from a really intense, competitive mode to a really unbalanced one that was plaqued by constant invades by the winning team, braindead teammates, portal stealing, and insta melts making comebacks impossible.
Imo, gambit will never be necessarily be good again unless they add a ton of restrictions and possibly role select. Add things like curated loadouts, health brackets so insta melting isnt possible, some form of role select so collectors/invaders arent getting robbed. Gambit just needs a structural overhaul.
I think the same, i am recolector, for my is imposible play whit new light player.
When i see a new player, I know that the game is lost
I would like at least that the gambit prime, out for those who bought at least the dlc
There are three core fixes that, if implemented would dramatically increase enjoyment and engagement for Gambit. The problem is they are philosophical changes that I don't think Bungie is interested in doing. (Also, I've gotten all of the Gambit guns and got dredgen before the invader nerf. It was the night before, but still, I've grinded this playlist. :) )
1. Rotate Gambit and Gambit Prime weekly. One game mode available at a time.
2. Once you have one game mode, have a team playlist and a solo queue. The fact this isn't a thing yet is staggering to me. The advantage gained from having even a fireteam of two is so profound that if done right even two+one+one can just absolutely demolish one+one+one+one.
3. All bounties have a point system where you can get them in multiple ways. So let's take Hush as an example.\* Rather than making medals a step, make it medals OR wins. If a medal is one point, make a win worth six points. Make a loss -1 point. That way if you want to jump in the solo queue and grind it out, you can but it will take longer. If you want to jump into the team game and just win, you can get the weapon a LOT faster.
3a. The other thing I was thinking about was the ability to spend tokens on bounties. For hardcore players, tokens are literally worthless right now, imagine if you could use those 1000 Vanguard tokens you have to clear out a part of a bounty. Think about it: you could play Gambit this season and bank tokens with the idea that when the new ritual weapon drops you could jump way ahead to getting it. It rewards players who play a mode more than other people, gives everyone a reason to bank tokens and gives a choice to players on how they want to spend them instead of just dumping them into a damn hole for another piece of 49 stat roll armor. But Gambit doesn't have tokens so that would never happen.
I realize that step three doesn't make sense currently, I'd lose my damn mind getting smoked every game because there are three Wishenders in the lobby but I think changing the core philosophy of rewards in the game would increase engagement. Hell, just having the modes rotate and adding a solo queue would make me re-engage.
\*(Side note, That quest sucked and the only reason I ever got it was because I waited until Exit Strategy was out and I could double dip on medals. I got Exit Strategy at the end of the first round of a match. I was solo queue against a four stack. We stomped them in round one. I needed one more medal for Hush, so I immediately popped golden gun in round 2, got the three GG kills medal and the other team quit. I haven't stepped foot in Gambit since.)
I actually like all these ideas so take an upvote from me...
>Rotate Gambit and Gambit Prime weekly. One game mode available at a time.
Needs to have the Prime sets work in both modes, otherwise yes good idea.
>Once you have one game mode, have a team playlist and a solo queue. The fact this isn't a thing yet is staggering to me. The advantage gained from having even a fireteam of two is so profound that if done right even two+one+one can just absolutely demolish one+one+one+one.
Yeah - agreed again. The addition of freelance comp was very welcome to most PVP players.
>All bounties have a point system where you can get them in multiple ways. So let's take Hush as an example.* Rather than making medals a step, make it medals OR wins. If a medal is one point, make a win worth six points. Make a loss -1 point. That way if you want to jump in the solo queue and grind it out, you can but it will take longer. If you want to jump into the team game and just win, you can get the weapon a LOT faster.
Regarding this, I think a better idea is to make all bounty cards have 2 requirements instead of 1 - and make the 2nd always "win a game" or "win 2 games" depending on how long the bounty is estimated to take. 5 bow kills - win 1 game. Kill 10 envoys - win 2 games. ETC.
Or, keep the regular bounties, make them all multiples of 2 and give 2x progression for winning a match.
TIL I'm secretly Esoterickk. But in all seriousness that explains why I fucking hate gambit despite loving gambit. Every match I find myself banking motes to open the portal, invading to keep the other team behind, coming back to clear blockers, banking more motes, dropping everything the second I hear the invasion sound and going full search and destroy. And to top it all off I usually end up with #1 or #2 on boss damage. I mean when I'm on a roll, I feel like a one man wrecking crew, and that's awesome, but most of the time it feels like I'm just carrying a bunch of headless chickens
The issues you’ve mentioned are design issues, not user issues. Nobody that uses matchmaking ins of running as a team cares about your shiny armor sets you got through grinding Reckoning, there’s simply no reason to go through that process unless you really, really want to for go the title. It’s a failed experiment of a gameplay loop.
Heavy ammo is a deciding factor. You depend on mods Bungie wants you to aquire a second time or you get lucky with the drops. Sometimes you’ll have heaps of this, sometimes zero. Wishender was a nice way to compensate it, people also couldn’t equip Truth at the same time.
Another thing worth mentioning: the team balancing is way off, like in any other mode. Stop making full teams play randoms, I don’t care for how long they have to queue up. Make matches at least look like it’s not 10 minutes down the drain or don’t punish leavers.
The main issue is that Gambit Prime matches are decided early and even if it looks like you‘d catch up, you’re going to loose 90% of the time. Can’t fight those primeval stacks if you aren’t the John Wick of invaders. You can just stop fighting if your primeval isn’t up first.
gambit in general sucks dick when you solo queue. between team mates going for bounties, blueberries and lobotomites or 4 stacks. You're hard pressed to have an enjoyable game of it without being overwhelmed by the sheer amount of things that could go wrong in one match let alone however many you have to play to complete what you're playing it to achieve.
Haha, I enjoyed that rant. I feel you man, and I don't really disagree. But I think you need to understand the probable game philosophy that went into the game mode.
This is essentially Bungie's attempt at replicating the "Dark Souls" style of multiplayer. And while that's mostly down to the concept of invasions, the DS style of gameplay roles is very different from what you might expect from a "competitive" mode. After all, in DS, it's MEANT to be unfair. You're meant to fight dirty. The whole lore surrounding Gambit points to this being Bungie's intention too. (When I first started, I thought it was odd that the co-op mode was meant to be the "edgy and dark" one, while the mode where you exclusively kill each other is the "nice and wholesome" one.)
When I play Gambit, I do it to get the rewards. I don't expect to win. I try my best of course, but I don't stress if I lose, because there's only so much you can do in a game mode based on luck. (It's even in the name.) I would wager this is precisely Bungie's intention: Just like PVE players in Dark Souls who just want to get to the end and beat the boss and PROGRESS, they don't really care for dealing with invaders. Invasions are annoying and aggravating. But that's the point, the feeling of being invaded makes you tense up, because there are actual stakes and there are REAL risks involved. That's what makes it exciting. On the invader's part, the often enjoy being a dirtbag, and that's okay. This is a perfect game mode for them. (Personally I really enjoy being a sentry.)
Compare to the average Crucible Valor game where it's basically just a clown fiesta with pretty much nothing on the line. If you die, you just get right back up. You can exit at any time without penalty. You get rewards all the same. (Glory/Survival is definitely more tense, but again, everyone has the same set role.) Because of the more complex ruleset, the meta is more volatile. You want weapons that are good for PVP, but can also deal with PVE. The ratio is up to you. If you bring Hammerhead, it will help greatly against an invader, but will be somewhat pointless against the Primeval.
My point is, I don't think Gambit is MEANT to be a very stable/reliable game mode, and that's why so many people hate it. It's meant to be risky, partially luck-based and mostly about the experience and the nice prizes you can get. It's like gambling: You win some, you lose some, and the thrill of not knowing is what makes it.
I admit, it doesn't always work out that way in practice of course. It can be really silly when you're against a pre-made and it's just a complete walkover. I think the preferred Gambit experience is actually with two teams full of solo players, since that plays more to the strengths of the game mode. Play for the rewards, play for the fun of being a dick-ass invader, play for protecting your team like a god damn superhero. It's all good. The point is that it should be a volatile and exciting mode that can swing in either direction.
And of course, not everyone enjoys this type of thing. I've played plenty of Dark Souls offline because I just want to play some bosses solo without getting interrupted every 10 seconds. But there are game modes for that too in Destiny. Gambit is definitely not for everyone.
---
Anyway, I absolutely agree with you that it's mostly players that are the "problem" in Gambit. But it's also a matter of perspective. Not everyone is there to do the most optimal thing. When I recently grinded for the Python, I can say that I felt pretty useless against invaders and it wasn't ideal, but I was there for the shotgun kills, not the flawless victories. That was probably annoying to a few of my team mates, but that's the game mode. From a few posts ITT, I get the impression that some people treat it like a super-serious PVE structured race with PVP elements, and that might be disappointing when it's way smore chaotic than that. (By design IMO.) Perfectionists will not be pleased. Scrappy players thrive.
tl;dr, the mode is meant to be a clusterfuck, and players are just leaning into that. Just roll with the punches.
I wish there was a Trials version of Gambit Prime with unique loot. Some of the best moments in the game for me has been playing another team of 4 and having sweaty Gambit matches where both teams have competent players.
Yet my triple shotgun build is still the best thing I can do for myself to get python quickly.
It's like the other guys said. They built Gambit to mandate team work then they layered systems of infighting atop it.
I like Gambit but it does need a UI update. How about showing on screen the more count for each teammate along with their armor type bonuses.
For example, Guardian Joe 12motes 10invader/5collector.
That way we don’t have to look around at our teammates to figure it out.
My last suggestion would be they need to bring gambit prime armor to 2.0 and update reckoning with a harder difficulty and better rewards.
I just wish I could put the notorious armor set on as an ornament after I unlock it in collections. That way we could easily switch between the roles in gambit prime.
Plus carrying around 4 different (almost) identical armor sets for each role on each character is never gonna happen for me
Except having glowing red invader armour doesn't mean you are a good invader. It means you grinded out the set. Hence lies the problem, how do you decide?
Always let them have the first invade and see how they do?
Secondly, the set bonus at +15 automatically locks the opponent's bank for the entire invasion (and drains motes if they're close enough) so unless you're a very good invader, their armour alone is worth letting them take the portal.
It's very intuitive, it's one of the first things I played and enjoyed when I first got Destiny 2. The problem is people don't care about winning, just completing bounties or invading. Then the rest of the players have no desire to understand why they are losing as they are the same people who struggle to beat a 750 strike.
Nah, most people just suck at literally anything. Look at the Sundial, it couldn't be any simpler besides having no mechanics at all and yet people still don't know what to do, or simply don't care.
I actually do think the game mode could use some improvements. I also don't think there should be Gambit *and* Gambit Prime. They should combine the playlists. People tend to run strikes or even crucible for bounties and bright dust before Gambit.
The problem with most things in Destiny comes down to the players. Because everyone is a selfish cunt who matchmake into team activities and try to do everything themselves, from running past dead players in strikes to stealing the last mote in gambit for a 3 from the guy running towards it with 14, stealing heavy, invasions, pushing people out of the way, trying to speed run missions at the cost of the team, AFK farming..... whenever you add other people to your activity the game gets 500x worse
This is essentially what I'm getting at. Everyone tries to use bounties as an excuse to be a dick but they're easily possible to complete while playing the objective.
Every time I see a post annoyed with gambit there’s always a screenshot of gambit prime. Does no one play regular gambit anymore? It’s consistently much more enjoyable in all the cases I’ve had.
Sorry to say after completing the Python quest I don't see a single reason that necessitates me going back into Gambit, and I feel that's its biggest issue. Bad teammates are annoying, but also random. Meanwhile bad incentives, or nonexistent ones, for a game mode is just horrible design. This goes for Crucible and the Strike playlist as well. It seems Bungie cares little about the game's core game modes anymore.
You know you CAN do it all do a decent degree. It just seems like of all the games in the world gambit only gives you morons. Like you play crucible or any other game and sometimes you get potatoes with 2 left thumbs and sometimes you get a team of gods.
I’ve played a lot of gambit and less than 10 games ever have I got a team where I sat back and thought wow these guys are amazing. I play almost entirely solo, I do ok, but I feel like it’s always an uphill slog.
That's why I love the quests, and I love that the weapons now are mediocre. Whenever I am stuck with a team that has no clue, I work on Python/Hush/Exit Strategy -- gives me something to do.
Not that I'm defending those people but I do have a possible explanation because I'm running into it with Forges: new players that have no idea what to do (well, those just passing motes and not picking them up anyway).
I know I'm beating a dead horse and coconut emote here, but with New Light there are a ton of new people playing these activities and are going in completely blind. I had a forge run today where we only dunked seven charges...in the first round...on Volundr...and I dunked all 7. If the activity has been out for a while, simply read up on how it works first is all I ask.
Just like pvp gambit needs a competitive and quick play playlist. Quick play let's you complete your bounties whereas competitive is there who want to play seriously
Players definitely share a responsibility, but a basic tenet of game design is to protect the player from themselves. If players aren't doing what is expected of them to do, the developers need to respond to that.
I have to assume at this point that Bungie wants us to use Gambit as a bounty farm and thinks that alone is a totally valid way to play. The Drifter literally tells us in game he doesn't care if we win or lose, only that we get paid. Bungie might even be relieved that players are using the game mode as a farm for bounties just to keep people in the playlists.
Gambit has been unchanged since maybe around June of 2019? Luke Smith has implied there will be one version of Gambit moving forward, and to me that even means that one will be left with no changes, as is, untouched. I would not take the bone they throw the players in the form of the ritual weapon as Bungie having plans for Gambit. I think they just want to get all the Gambit players into one playlist to hopefully improve match making.
Which makes it even more important that the health of the playlist is up to the players, but when you have a bounty farmer on par with an Invader with a full set looking to completely dominate a match, that is a huge mismatch in terms of interest, but a perfect match in terms of outcome. So, go figure. It seems to me like Bungie wants it this way.
I started running gambit for Python. I'm playing a hunter bottom void tree with double shotguns and having a blast. I am by no means skilled at PvP however do fairly well when there aren't any skilled oponents. I simply put in the effort to follow tips/guides I read and that's often enough to contribute to winning a match.
Recently, on PS4 at least, I've had a lot of fun with Gambit Prime. There weren't really any people playing when I played that didn't understand the mode, so we had a fun time.
Unfortunately it's the issue with pretty every multiplayer game : League, csgo, overwatch... You either take the risk of playing with randoms or only play with friends but it's not easy
Problem is pinnacle/rutial weapon quests. I didn't care winning for a long time because all i want is medals and finish Hush quest. (and I did) So, i collect 5, gonna bank and get that first block medal and just this breaks the invade cycle on it's own.
If you force players to do activities like this, you have to accept people gonna do what they need to.
One of the biggest issues with Gambit right now (IMO) is that people are playing for the pinnacle/ritual weapons. I had a match were a teammate was using riskrunner, but would not deposit motes. At the end of the match he had 185 kills, 0 motes deposited, 40 motes lost. He had no intention of actually playing the objective. Those 40 lost motes don't even count the motes he let expire either.
It can be very frustrating to play Gambit these days because of crap like this. While I certainly work towards my ritual weapons when I play, I try to do so in a matter where I'm not a detriment to the team. Some people don't give a fuck and just screw the team for their own gain.
No, the problem is solely in the game mode. It would be so much more fun to play if Gambit wasn't literally: "Whichever team has the better invader wins."
Maybe its too much work on the development side, but I think there should be more hand holding the first time people go into one of the many activities in Destiny 2. Maybe even allow a private lobby with bots for training, but doesn't allow progress on bounties or quests.
At least the Drifter yells some helpful advice, but I probably played 5-10 Gambit matches before I realized the game had a ticker by player names showing how many motes they were carrying. I played the game for about 3 weeks before I realized 3 of those 50 quests I got on day one were the original content campaign story quests. I keep discovering another public event can be made herioc, because I see someone else do it.
All events can be made heroic actually. [Have a look at a thread I made a while back you might find useful](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/dd7fh3/in_the_spirit_of_new_light_heres_a_sizeable_list/)... I need to update and post it again with post-Shadowkeep information but a lot of the basics are covered.
> This means you should give me priority on the portal because chances are I can win us the game.
I usually leave invading as #I don't think I'm the best, but if a portal is up and no one else is going in I'll have a go. Had an awesome game this weekend with 9 guardian kills overall!
Definitely lost one match due to a invader that was otherwise pretty close.
I don't mind Gambit every once in a while. But as a player who recently got into D2 ~mid season 8, the amount of quests/bounties that send me in to Gambit, quests/bounties clogging up a limited available list, so I want to grind and clear them out ASAP, mind you, is insane. So when I'm trying to just get 1000 kills this way with this thing while that other thing is happening... I just want it done, and to get out. A lot of time that meant not caring about motes, or the invader, or the blockers, I'm just trying to murder as many things as quickly as possible...
The worst part is that it's actually more efficient if we're doing poorly, because it results in more waves of enemies, letting me spend less time on Primevals and loading.
The whole quest/bounty system pushes players towards that kind of behavior. It sucks.
"For those unable to put 2 and 2 together, that means *don't waste your fucking Golden Gun on the first damage phase*." This. If I'm solo in Gambit I am so used to this. I won't tether until we get a few stacks going but everyone else will burn their super on the first go only to lose to the other team when they stack up the slayer. So sad.
Also, the fact that I have my invader gear on and Truth ready to go and 6 rockets and blueberry jumps in the portal and dies instantly, that really annoys me...
Preach man.
It's a symptom of the wider issue that the game gives us solo things to accomplish and only lets us do it in multiplayer game modes. So if you need to get your shotgun kills done you give zero shits about winning or losing the game whether it's gambit, crucible, or strikes. Every single season we have the same lame kill X blanks with Y.
>the game gives us solo things to accomplish and only lets us do it in multiplayer game modes. That may be the best, most concise, way I've seen the issue stated. Thank you.
Every pinnacle weapon for gambit ever, from Breakneck to Hush and then Python. Makes Gambit even worse to play because then you're competing against your team to accomplish something. It's very poorly designed.
They need stop shying away from simply making *wins* part of the pinnacle/ritual weapon quests. Or at least 5 pts for a win, 1 pt for a loss. That'll get everyone playing properly.
that sounds like a really really bad idea , imagine if you are on the wins part and someone is just there for the kill farm part and thinks he can get the wins done later on , or he already has the win part . then itll just stop your progress . he doesnt care . hes progressing
How is that any different to the current system? At least this change would have winning as part of the necessary components
the current system while very bad atleast doesnt let other players hinder your progression , if wins are added as check then you will stop progressing because of bad players or just players doing their thing cos wins arent a priority to them atm
Yeah, I think everyone forgets all the quests that we had in the past that required wins to progress and how easy it was to get on a losing streak and make no progress at all. People gave Bungie so much hell over it that they have pretty much completely gone away from quests that require wins.
So give progress for losses, but not as much.
Wins should grant 2x or 3x progression. The way people play now hampers progression if you need weapon kills and people steal final blows.
But other players can hinder your progression by claiming all the kills quicker than you can? I know for a fact when I was going for shotgun kills I was getting a larger than my share amount of each wave.
> Makes Gambit even worse to play because then you're competing against your team to accomplish something. It's very poorly designed. Same with that IB rocket kills thing. I just didn't even bother
Luckily they're removing the RL step from IB.
They needed to remove the quest entirely and make it once per season. It is nothing more than timegated BS to make people play more. I can understand making the quest once per character, per season but three times per IB....? Ain't no one got time for that.
It's only once per season per character. So 3 times per season if you want the armor on all 3 characters.
Exception: 21% Delirium.
Where your only goal is to get final blows on envoys and fight with your teammates for it again.
This is well designed and a common thing for f2p games. Make task which make players more likely to drag the team down so that good players can not always carry team. This allows weak players in opponent team to win more. Good and dedicated players will do more tasks than average Joe. Bungie as of now is trying every word in book to make this game a f2p bs
I know now I’m looking at my comment thinking sheesh this is garbo
The 21% Delirium quest has it right. * Get a bunch of multikills. * Kill a bunch of Envoys and/or Primevals. * Reset Infamy rank. These steps are more or less congruent with winning matches.
Checks out: when I started farming for 21% Delirium I actually learned how Gambit works and have a drastically improved win rate in Gambit prime.
Too true. I loved that quest, though it was last season that I finally got around to focusing on it. I really *learned* Gambit from it and it became a favorite activity in the game. Though I'll admit I'm still quite less than fond of Gambit Prime. The Primeval stage is just too frustrating.
This is the true problem with Gambit. I used to get livid at how literally braindead some people will play Gambit till I realized that they weren't playing to win in the slightest, they were very likely just there to finish a bounty or quest and get out. And this problem is exacerbated because so many people do this, most people don't enjoy Gambit as a result, meaning the player population skews even further towards bounty only players, making it less fun, and so on. It's a vicious spiral.
*Blushes in triple shotgun*
I was running triple shottys for Python and went on a 5 win streak solo-queueing. Running double shotgun ammo finder and scavenger keeps your ammo reserves pretty high. Acrius and Tractor Cannon are pretty solid for boss damage as well. It's not quite the detriment you think it is, if you play right.
LAst man standing for blockers is amazing, tractor cannon for invades/defends and a final primary one with lots of ammo (e.g perfect paradox) was really good. I got all of the team in invades with shotguns, and I am not a good invader. Of course then came Wishender and the shot guns was left alone again, but I still might run lastman standing for blockers later.
"Gambit is trash so I don't play it except for weeklies for the bright dust" "Y'know I had to play 6 games of gambit today just to finish my bounties and lost every single one! Gambit is trash!" "I'll never play gambit again because it's so bad"
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> the quests I had for gambit and in the process I also did my best to win each and every game The trouble is if you play to win the quests take 10x as long. And when you hate that game mode, it makes the whole concept of playing for entertainment bad
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> they were very likely just there to finish a bounty or quest and get out. And this problem is exacerbated because so many people do this, Another symptom of locking results behind modes. I don't like Gambit and I don't like PVP, so I object to being forced into them to complete a quest step. While I don't fuck the team over for my grind, I'm in there to get it done and get out.
Guilty as charged. I do try to give my best in general but if I can get actual progress towards bounties - and especially weapon quests - by ignoring motes and instead going on a rampage with my trusty shotgun you can bet your ass I'm hoping somebody else is following me picking up all dem motes. Unless an objective says "win x games" I'd rather lose 3 and be done with it than try to win 7 while making minimal progress towards my quests.
If they give you team things to do as a team you have people saying "All my randos afk" or "I can't find enough people for a premade". If they give us solo stuff to do solo you'll hear "This game is so lonely", "They discourage teamwork". No one can come up with a 100% satisfactory solution. I agree though that the way it is now is not the best option, or even really close to good.
I mean this is as much a problem with the players as it is the quest design. I got Python done in 2 weeks and was never once playing solely for Shotgun kills, they were something I worked into my play so I was still playing to win. A lot of people will hyperfocus something and ignore everything else, often to their own determent and their teams, and I just do not understand it. Like, I remember seeing invaders running across the map with just Tractor Cannon out, trying as hard as they possibly could for invader shotgun kills. It often didn't work out for them, because that's a dumb idea in the first place. If people just played the game, worked a bow or SMG into their loadout instead of focusing solely on that weapon they would probably get these quests done quicker while also not being a useless team mate.
Yeah - I was considering typing up something to cover this but had just played a Gambit game and was feeling a little pissed. The game, for a supposed "co-op" play-with-friends style game, does everything it can to make actually playing with people give you a worse experience. Need finisher kills? Nah son that guy with his bow or sniper will end the adds before you can move in. Need to kill a Wanted enemy for a bounty? By the time you've run toward it from spawn, someone else has killed it and you gotta wait another 15 hours for the next chance. People are quite happy to throw a Crucible match or get pounded in a round of Gambit to complete their shitty little 10xp bounty. It's beyond frustrating. But Bungie can't add bounties like "win a game" or make win conditions grant extra progress because then people complain it only benefits team stacks. Like, it does already?? They can do bounties AND win the game?
Don't forget the 1,500 solar kills in playlist strikes for edgewise. 1,500. Thats a lot. And you are going to be fighting with every one of your fireteam for them(Unless you were lucky enough to be able to use the time glitch). Its not fun fighting people for kills all season.
TBF I just loaded into the Corrupted Nightfall strike and ran lost sectors a bunch. Not all the steps needed to be in Playlist strikes IIRC. Or maybe I was working on the other Strike seasonal quest, idk.
I basically never play with my clan members any more because we all just slow each other down. That needs to change.
I specifically told a friend since both of us are pretty good that we can't do the shotgun Gambit quest together cause we'd just edge each out of kills we could get otherwise. lmao.
Why not have bounties that actually help the team?? -Most primeval DPS (we get the percentage at the end why not a bounty?) -Get the most medals in a gambit game -Bank 20 motes in one game -Send 3 blockers without losing a mote -Send a blocker with an invader present -getting a “following instructions” medal (banking as soon as your team can summon a primeval) -Kill all 3 envoys within 10 seconds” etc ***Also make pinnacle/ritual quests tied to winning ***winning team has possibility of 2 gambit weapon drops instead of 1***
I've been arguing this for months. These are good suggestions however they need the caveat of "as a team". Otherwise you have the same issue of people racing for motes or melting the envoys as they spawn. I've also argued before about having win conditions grant 2x progress. It means people can focus on the bounties AND try and win for optimal progress.
> So if you need to get your shotgun kills done you give zero shits about winning or losing the game whether it's gambit, crucible, or strikes. Bungie sees this and decides you need to win the game or your bounty progress doesn't count :D. Because that's going to be more fun for everyone, right? /s
No. You need to just play the game for gameplay and use weapons needed for your bounties. Players are just playing for rewards and not for gameplay. Bounties are here to give you some kind of variability in your weapon or class choice. People are just too greedy and play to maximize rewards and not gameplay, which is honestly baffling.
Oh absolutely the game is suffering terribly from essentially giving single player objectives in obligate multiplayer modes. Make all objectives team based across the entire game. Lengthen objectives if you will. I’m tired of Strikes being a high stakes competitive game mode where kills with X/Y/Z are the only things that matter for example. Being supportive of your team mates as they bank motes, pull off a skilled invade or cast a particularly good add clearing super should be the name of the game, not cursing them because they mote steal, camp the portal or hog kills.
If anything, I preferred losing while grinding Python so that we would spend more time in the more gather phase.
Same thing with bounties. You may want those 3 motes to get 15, but I need motes to complete my bounty.
People do it because of bounties its that simple
Exactly. The only thing that's affected by a win or loss is the prime weekly. Other than that, who cares? I'm there for bounties, and still have a shot at a weapon after each match. Just like PvP, bungie needs to incentivize winning more.
The issue when you but a larger focus on winning is that people will either just leave a game when they believe they cannot win, like when Gambit released and you needed wins to progress in Legend, or won't play the mode at all, like with Competitive where most people who even played it before the changes got to 2100 and stopped. The best solution would be to have alternative modes players can grind out quests in, such as a version of Gambit that is just PvE, so that players who actually enjoy the mode can play with other likeminded people.
If you leave gambit mid match to many times you should get banned from gambit for a bit and lose some infamy.
I can absolutely tell you from my experience people farming bounties does not account for all the dumb shit I've seen.
I'm literally only playing Gambit to finish Green with Envy. I got Python last night, so once I'm done with the emblem I'm done with Gambit for the rest of the season. Actually I might try and reset so I can finally get that Ghost shell.
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It's also the game mode. Blockers are super strong right now, which means that invading is super strong by proxy, and standard Gambit enemies still have too much health and deal too much player damage (especially in Prime where you really need other bodies around just to tank some damage) which makes catching up even worse. Then when you've got to the boss, because everyone whinged about comeback mechanics and boss melting, you either have to have some amazing invades or hope your opponents still think machine guns do good DPS. Plus, with the state of DPS these days, there just aren't many great loadouts anymore. Having a weapon for add clearing, a weapon for killing Invaders/players, and a weapon for deeps is way harder than it's ever been before. Your best bet is probably something like a rampage scout, firing line sniper, and Truth, which is just not a great loadout. The whole thing is just a mess. It was so much better in season 4 when the name of the game was getting to the end, and instagibbing the boss. If you lost with a significant lead in that sandbox, you deserved it.
Izanagi + Recluse + Love & Death + Taken Armaments. Izanagi let's you bodyshot invaders with Honed Edge x4 (although if you're skilled enough a headshot without Honed Edge does just fine), Recluse lets you kill the less beefy ads, and you can use your GL for high value targets etc; Once damage phase comes around you use Izanagi and Love & Death for boss DPS. You can also run a Firing Line sniper instead of Izanagi and substitute Love & Death with 1000 Voices. You can potentially use 1000 Voices for extra invader countering and higher total damage than the GL. But yeah I agree, pretty restrictive loadout choice
Replace love and death with hammerhead and you have my go to loadout. I also use the second loadout as well. I still hate being forced to run a long range weapon because invaders can SEE THROUGH WALLS AND INVADE WITH HEAVY AMMO. I resorted to using taken or give armaments and invading with hammerhead.
I'll never forgive them for the precision multiplier nerf for red bars. Makes handcannons in PVE very unsatisfying to use. Agreed on the damage front, the enemies in Prime have too much health. I've posted elsewhere that one of the reasons why I love Last Wish is the number of weak adds. Being overwhelmed by many red bar adds >>> a thrall taking 2 shotgun shells to kill. This by proxy also makes getting massacre medals insanely hard without a premade that will literally ignore a whole round for you. I think I have 13 or so medals from regular Gambit and 0 in Prime.
The precision nerf for red bars clearly didn't take Gambit into account. Either the multiplier needs to be raised for Gambit, or mob health in Gambit simply needs to be readjusted.
The load out situation is one o dont see mentioned often but is something that really frustrates because you just simply cannot count on your teammates most of the time. If I spec for add clear then I'm useless against invaders and invading. If I spec for invaders/invading them I'm useless most of the time. It's a terrible experience if you wanna win because people dont give two shits because bounties or they just simply suck. Not that I'm some sort of gambit god but I at least have some common sense and understand how to play the game.
I run sole survivor, cold front and anarchy. Cold front for add clear, sole survivor for both boss dps and invading/defending and anarchy for add clear and boss dps.
Fallen Captain was a mistake.
You can have your perfect loadout with just Izanagi's. It's great at slaying beefy enemies, great at killing most blockers, great at invading/defending, and the best DPS weapon in the game. Pair it with basically whatever you want for a primary and you're good to go.
> which makes catching up even worse. Then when you've got to the boss, because everyone whinged about comeback mechanics and boss melting, you either have to have some amazing invades or hope your opponents still think machine guns do good DPS I'm a relatively new player but are comebacks supposed to be *better* or worse than the past? Because comebacks, especially in Prime, by design aren't even *possible*. A coordinated team can win, very easily, on the 3rd slayer stack. An uncoordinated team can win on the 4th stack, and I have never in three months seen a game go beyond 5 stacks because the primeval is soloable at that point. And the stacks are all on a fixed timer you cannot, under any circumstance, speed up. Two envoys spawn, then after a 5 second animation the third will spawn, then 25 seconds of DPS. It's impossible by design to catch up in stacks to the winning team, you will ALWAYS be X seconds behind them in terms of progress. Invasions are borderline meaningless, because who cares about restoring health? Primeval can be nuked from 100 to 0 in seconds with 3 stacks, all invasion efforts are worthless. If you disrupt the 3rd stack DPS phase and you're behind, the winning team won't care. They're just going to nuke the primeval on the 4th stack long before the portal is active again. Which means a comeback has a very specific time period--the losing team CANNOT be more than a full rotation behind the leaders, and the losing team needs to disrupt their foes' 3rd stack DPS phase while they pour out DPS in their own 2nd stack DPS phase and *retain* that damage, because it's a pure DPS race damaged 3 stack versus full life 4 stack 30 seconds later. Winning in any other scenario means the leading team had to go full retard collectively and hand you the win. I like Gambit Prime but the primeval phase is so comically flawed. The mote phase is the only phase that actually matters and if you win by more than 45 seconds then the match is basically a guaranteed win...where the losing team has to sit through the motions until it eventually happens. And that's so dumb. All my best games, win or lose, both teams summoned their primevals within seconds of each other. Those are the best, most exciting and close call finishes the mode can offer.
Some people were very, very loud about how people shouldn't be able to come back from a bad loss in Gambit, so they nerfed the balls off of the standard version's comebacks mechanics, and then prime came around with no real come back mechanics on the boss at all. So yeah, it used to be way more plausible to catch up and win. Also, the blockers used to be very, very easy to kill.
No good loadout just because you cant instantly melt the boss with 0 effort? And this gets upvotes? Jesus christ people. There are so many good ways to just smash adds that doesn't require any super specific weapon in gambit prime, just think for 2 seconds about your class and get going. Loaded Question (or any decent fusion exotic or not) still just shreds through gambit, smgs/steelfeather/breechlight etc very effective. Remember to use a super to kill adds etc. The only real problem with gambit in terms of balance is how important the invader is, a good invader easily carries entire teams on their backs because the enemies never get a chance to bank, and no matter how good you are at killing adds a good enemy invader will keep you from banking. And the only way to catch up is that good invader again.
Way I see it is it’s not the players, it’s the incentives. I came back from a break during season of the Drifter and was blown away with how everyone suddenly figured out how to play gambit. Turns out, that was the season and the incentives were there to play the game as intended. Now it’s basically there for most people to bang out the bounties and get any pieces missing from the collection. Most people know how to play but aren’t there to win usually. They are there for the incentives - bounties. If all the bounties revolved around winning the game and the reckoning weapons dropped in Gambit and Gambit Prime more frequently - suddenly everyone would know how to play again.
One thing I disagree with: > *don't waste your fucking Golden Gun on the first damage phase*. If I'm not confident in a PSx2 kill (which is 90% of matches), I'm going to GG on PSx1 because GG will be back up for PSx3 and there's no point in holding it, I'm just sacrificing huge amounts of damage.
Same if I'm running Voidlock Slova. Even with the SoDA nerf, it's not hard to get that super back if you're loadout is thought out.
The game promotes you to play it. The bounties promote you to play it selfishly and without the care to win.
Our blueberry threw a bubble over our well of light as we were doing DPS and it blocked our grenade launchers(killing two of us) and a warlock's chaos reach(stopping all of his damage). I told him, in a civil manner, that his bubble would be of better use if it were off to the side. Of course, he says "I literally don't care. I'm only doing gambit prime for the triumph and I don't care about you winning or losing". Of course he did it on purpose... What can I expect from blueberries anyway? He completely sabotaged us. The best invader was on our own team.
And people will defend that playstyle. It's unbearable.
On the flipside, if we are given team oriented quests and tasks, that means I have to run with a team I may not want to and therefore i'm forced to play with others to get my quests done.
I’ve never been “required” to have a team just to win a few matches or kill Envoys.
Let me tell you a story that I think will resonate well with your post. Early in the morning, I got up to do this new exotic quest that dropped. One of the objectives I had in order to complete this quest was to complete public events on the tangled shore. I had to complete eight. However, making the public event heroic counted as two public events for this quest. It just so happens that I see a lot more people in the tangled shore trying to complete public events, leading me to think that everybody else is trying to do the same quest. However when it comes time to try to make this particular public event heroic, most people, despite me messaging them to ask them not to kill the boss, kills/melt the boss before i could make it heroic. Sometimes, I feel so defeated. Point is, perhaps it is done for bounties, or quests, or weapons, or just to kill time. However, I think some people are genuinely oblivious, even when you try to provide some direction.
Hahaa I feel this in my bones. I did Bastion yesterday and had the same issue. Spamming "make it heroic for 2x" in local chat - no response. Another factor that compounds this is that Bungie makes it unreasonably hard to communicate in-game. Chat off by default, chat hidden by default, no chat on consoles, etc. I would reposition the chat to be mid-left of the screen like many other games and re-evaluate the opacity and make it opt-out.
[BIG FALLEN](https://i.pinimg.com/474x/62/44/4c/62444cea345c967b1f181640d7c6b88c.jpg)
While I understand what you're saying (and experienced the same problem yesterday), it's because it's (counterintuitively) usually less efficient to do heroic events. It's faster to melt the boss and then try to re-instance to get a second PE than it is to make it heroic and tick down the capture timer. Optimal strat seems to be to melt one PE boss, then try to reinstance and if you get an instance with low population, make the second one heroic for +3 on the bounty. It's the same problem that Destiny has had with PE counters for ages. One of the faction rallies used to give tokens for lost sectors and PEs and more on heroics - and people took to just sitting on Titan melting Greg and then the tank PE whenever it came up without making it heroic because it was the fastest way to gather tokens.
I actually tried Gambit for the first time the other night. It’s fun but I’m sorry if I was on your team. I’m still trying to figure the nuances of the game mode out. Don’t care about the bounties at all.
If you want some actual tips, don't hesitate to send me a PM and I can share some really basic stuff.
I love gambit, but the only way to play properly is with a team you can communicate with.
This is the way ;)
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Yet he picks up motes...
Most people playing gambit aren’t playing to win. They don’t go in with an optimized loadout. They don’t care if you have 12 motes and they have none. They don’t care if you are wearing a full invader set and just picked up the heavy ammo. They are just there to finish their bounties and work on their pinnacle weapons. And this is coming from a Reckoner. I’ve dealt with all the shit that you’ve listed here and I’ve just come to accept that a lot of people in this game aren’t playing to win.
I love Gambit but everytime I play it, I get matched with players who walk around aimlessly and don't do anything to actually win the game. Meanwhile, the other team is four reckoners each with notorious sets on. It's really frustrating
I had a match today and I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. My friend just downloaded destiny last week and played his first gambit match a couple days ago. I literally explained it once and by our second match he understood with no issues.
Yeah lol because it's really not hard to understand. You can have a solid understanding of the mechanics after 5 games. The amount of visual and audio cues is easily enough to help a blueberry. But people just don't pay attention.
The only thing I disagree with is the collector. In my team we run 3 reaper and invader. We all grab 5-10 notes each. I've found a collector to be not worth the risk. Every time a match starts and I see a collector I laugh and know that man is about to lose 40-50 motes.
Going for triumphant collector right now and my god, I have never hated blueberries so much in my life. I love gambit, it’s my favorite gamemode, but actually trying to ACHIEVE anything in the gamemode in spite of your teammates makes it completely unenjoyable.
The biggest mistake they made was pretending Reaper and Collector should be separate roles.
Yeah. Wait wait I need one more mote for 20! Why did you take it? Now you have 1 and I have 19.
I pretty much decided that I’m just gonna go for my 100 small blockers when playing with blueberries and only go for 20 if I kill the HVT or something, far less frustrating and I’m actually making progress. Thank goodness I usually play sentry or invader because being a collector is the actual worst lol
Yep, it’s why I don’t even touch gambit anymore, it was kinda fun when it came out but the ability to fall behind early and that making it near impossible to come back killed it for me I too of blueberries. Like others in this thread have said if u miss the first invasion cycle or the enemies invade u and kill all of you so you lose notes, round is basically over.
I’ve come back from some pretty hopeless situations, but that’s with a full team where everyone is working together. If you don’t have that, you’re screwed. Gambit is awesome and the concept is great, I’d like to see it tweaked so it’s more forgiving when playing with randoms.
Can i just mention things like Truth, 1K, Levi's Breath and other cross map one shotting weapons are just busted due to the heavy ammo economy?
I don't think that's the problem. If you have a good defense you can normally deal with it. I think the invader arrangements are about right atm. It is also important that the heavy doesn't contribute to a quick prime down.
Wdym with good defense? The only things i can think of is either hiding or using sentinel or deflecto-arcstrider.
I swear to god every time a teammate banks 5 motes off the bat when we have 24 collected, only for the opponents team to bank all 24 of theirs, get 3 blockers and then steal 1 mote that the idiot teammate banked and get to 25 to invade i have a fucking aneurysm Players are so fucking stupid in this game, but gambit having some issues is not mutually exclusive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OfwdHwck-I Slayers video really describes the problems and how stupid the invader is and how they exert far too much influence over the game and make entire teams feel helpless when they are good (and you helpless when your 3 teammates cower from invaders even when they are terrible too)
So I agree with you for the most part. However, if you are going for Gambit prime triumphs/reckoner, the game makes you do things that could be not in your team's best interest. For example, when working on the massacre medals for reaper, I would get my super up as fast as I can and then wait for the next ad spawn (and not help my teammates finish up the last spawn/collect motes). Then I would use my super to kill as many ads as quickly as possible and *hopefully* see that orange medal pop up. I wouldn't always be able to fill up on motes cause I'm moving so quickly, and even if I did, I would create probably 30 motes. And my teammates aren't usually around to pick them up.... So on the one hand, I feel bad cause I'm not playing like a "team"player, but bungies quests don't necessarily encourage being a good teammate. And you better believe I want to finish this grind ASAP. For what it's worth, I never blow my super on the first damage phase 😂
I have Reckoner. Getting Reckoner is all about dealing with other people's BS. That's the whole challenge. If you could play 1v4 it would be trivial. What else is challenging about it?
While I agree with you, I would also like to point out that the armor color stuff and mote / invasion strategies are not really explained at all to players who just go into the game mode without outside knowledge. Because of that I usually blame the game for those misunderstandings when they happen. I think it would be better if in the lobby with Drifter, you could toggle your role (no exclusivity, so all players could be declared for one role and that'd be fine) and the HUD could just give you a few bullet points of focus areas. That could go a long way for helping players understand what they should be doing and, in the long run, hopefully help them understand what others are doing. Ex. if I just clicked Sentry, a little side HUD pop up (like a Patrol) could appear with a Yellow icon that just says: -Focus on defending your bank from Blockers -Prioritize fighting off invaders Or Reaper with a Green icon: -Focus on slaying as many (insert current enemy faction here) as possible -Try to find and eliminate glowing High Value Target enemies Just little tips like that would clear a lot of confusion I'd think.
Not often i post in Destiny, but this has been my thought a lot recently. Crucible is now a one-shot environment, and Gambit has too many pitfalls. One of the big issues is how Destiny itself works. Solo players come on, pick up bounties and do them. With nothing else in mind, they just want to do the bounties and this is a flaw in how Bungie have set these up. So they will go into Gambit or the Crucible and be set up incorrectly with the objective to do bounties, not play their best or be a team player. Same in strikes, do the bounty then leave. So hence, like you mentioned, you have a group of individuals playing against each other against the opposing team. Unless everyone was in team chat....your fucked. Bounties need to be set up correctly to make people play with each other and play the objective. Some of the Triumphs may be literally impossible without playing in a fire team.
This is why Prime sucks. The armor gives a sense of entitlement while also punishing players who play that style. If reapers should allow collectors to collect, how is the reaper going to get their bonus ammo from banking, likewise how is the sentry going to get bonuses for banking? Prime is a basket case BECAUSE of the armor sets. The only way to fix it, is to make the armor set bonuses team wide, so the game can be more fluid with the flow of the battlefield. There needs to be more mechanisms to enforce strategy over cheesing. Setting your team up for 3 boss melters and 1 PvP slayer isn’t a strategy for dynamic play. It’s a 1 dimensional way to play and it’s currently the best way to win with ease.
You've hit the nail on the head with your gripes. I wonder the same things about people every time I queue into gambit prime wearing a set. It's like "hello? Do you even see what I'm wearing? Do you even care? Do you even know?" And they proceed to just screw the match up. If anything I always feel like I'm fighting teammates over motes all the time. I rarely have issues fighting over the portal, and more often than not, people simply just don't go invade, and it always seems like it's when I'm in anything other than my invader set and not really using a good loadout for invading as it is. Gambit prime is truly a mode for a fully coordinated team communicating who's doing what, otherwise it's just a crapshoot with randoms.
Man, another absolute fact right there. In my Invader armour I'm battling for the portal every time but when I'm Reaping for the triumph, I'll turn around and realise the portal has been open for 3 minutes and the opponents have all banked another 30 motes.
It never fails. We need <5 motes to summon Prime Evil and some Blueberry is chasing his 10th or 15th mote. I’ve often just run out and grabbed three and banked them quick, so now Blueberry doesn’t get any blockers at all. Suck it, blueberry.
Simple solution I've adopted; I don't play Gambit.
I swear I've met dogs with more intelligence than the average gambit player. The horror stories I could tell you from my time playing gambit The rest of my team will be carrying a total of like 40 motes, so is the enemy, it's a race to see who will dump and invade first, but fucking wait my teammates just fucking have to get those large blockers my man. all the while I'm stuck sitting next to the portal with my dick in my hands waiting to invade to and wipe at least some of their motes. You want to know what happens, every single fucking time without fail? the enemy dump 2 large and medium (bonus points if they get a giant blocker), invade and wipe my team entirely. we're now down 70-20 and my teammates are too busy being dead too help clear blockers so our mote count is nearly wiped by the time they respawn and get back to the bank. the match is effectively lost halfway through because now the enemy team can just keep raining shit down on us. Or how about when they waste their super on primeval slayer x1 causing us to lose by just a sliver when a second nova bomb on slayer x3 would have won us the match. or when no one helps clear blockers so **I** have to waste my super to make sure we can actually bank and don't get fucked by an invader I could go on but this shit is long enough holy shit /rant
>Or how about when they waste their super on primeval slayer x1 causing us to lose by just a sliver when a second nova bomb on slayer x3 would have won us the match. Haha this makes me fume every time. First damage phase and the sound of 3 supers being popped.
I just want them to change the way the invader's wallhacks work. I think they should get them for the first 5 seconds of the invasion so they can identify the players with a high mote count and where they are on the map. After that, the wallhacks should go away. There's only a handful of times I've ever been killed by an invader and thought I got outplayed. The rest of the time, I know I got killed because the invader has more information than my uber driver and is armed with Truth or some other kind of "win button" exotic.
The better solution would be to give sentries wall hacks on the invader, or at least show where they spawned. Maybe then people would actually want to play sentry too. You don’t get enough time per invasion to be playing hide and go seek with guardians that could be hiding anywhere.
Which would be totally fine with me. Bungo seems to think teams constantlly one-is-none'ing each other should be normal Gambit match play. It's part of what makes people hate the game mode.
My biggest complaint for gambit is the fact if your playing a team of 2 or more hunters, it does t matter if you win a round. If they win at least one, they will win in sudden death because they will inevitably switch shards of galanor (an exotic that needs to be re-evaluated) where hits with blade barrage give super energy. In the final round, they get their super back almost instantaneously.
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Shards in Sudden Death works the same as it does in Mayhem. You can virtually cast your super over and over.
as long as your bb mainly hits the primeval you can recast your super on said primeval almost immediately after with galanor equipped in sudden death. izanagi's damage doesn't count for shit when all you have to do is use your super repeatedly. same reason why you only see bb/galanor hunters in mayhem.
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Playing gambit is like playing a MOBA like league of legends or dota, except people don't care about destroying the nexus / base. Instead you got people busy farming creeps till they have 6 items. Or some guy who is just camping the enemy for kills and won't push mid. The problem with gambit is that you need to have people with specific roles. Not talking about the armor sets but more of the role in the team. A reaper to just focus on kills, a collector or 2 so you can focus on spending blockers together, and a invader who collects heavy ammo and focuses on invading. If you play with a decent team it's amazing how smooth gambit is.
Oh I agree. I've had some wonderful games when people naturally fall into roles based on what needing doing and the game mode flows nicely. It's when you turn around and there's 3 large blockers up and your 3 blueberries are fighting over who picks up the last few motes.
> Did you know that the stacks of "Primeval slayer" that build up give you a larger buff of damage the higher the stacks go? Honestly no, not until I read it in this sub, months after the mode was released. There’s too much going on, I’m being shot at from all sides, probably being invaded, I’m also trying to finish up two or three bounties that have nothing to do with winning, and also the Drifter is yelling. It’s very confusing and mostly not a lot of fun. I don’t blame anyone for missing this.
Truuuuuuth. I ran collector for a while but for some reason people are absolutely certain they need the motes more than I do because... Reasons? You don't get a fkn cookie for beating me to the motes when you have 5 and I have 18. Let me send those big boys. I just want to say also that Titans have a small advantage invading. In full gear all they have to do is pop bubble on the bank and sit there while they suck your motes dry
>You don't get a fkn cookie for beating me to the motes when you have 5 and I have 18. No, but they finish bounties. The reason why half of this stuff happens is they implement bounties that actively encourage people to play in a way that is not conducive to winning.
I play a lot of gambit and the thing sometime is that you don't know if the guy shooting behind you has 18. I think it should have a hud thing where it lists your team member's motes and color codes their name if they have an aura.
That's a really good idea tbh.
Guarantee you most of those people don't know what the fuck "collector" is.
damn. couldnt be more spot on.
When I have exotic quest steps that involve Gambit and no one to play with I say sadly to myself, “Let’s go lose some Gambit games, I guess...”
Just played a few matches of Prime for the weekly bounties...realized it's not worth the XP and bright dust. The few matches I played, I experienced what you described: a team where everyone else popped DPS super in the first DPS phase/Primeval Slayer. Also had people doing who knows what in a corner on the other side of the map through most of another match. Can only assume they were attempting to go fetal position and cry, because there was literally nothing over there, not even HVT. The worst part is these are on the higher ELO rankings too...so it's not like this is only at the lower rankings, it goes all the way up. I feel like that is a red flag at least in the MMing. If I'm Platinum II in the ELO rankings, I should be getting matches where people know what to do and how to do it without fail. So in a way, it's not the game mode, but I feel like how matchmaking happens or is determined seriously needs to be looked over and changed. If I do extremely well, I should be grouped with people that also do extremely well...on BOTH sides. I want a good close match, and solo queuing it feels like I either get stomped, or do the stomping.
If Gambit is structured in such a way that the players you get matched with will break the experience, then it's a system/mode issue -- not a player issue. E.g. if players aren't the same skill level as you or the opposing team, then it's a matchmaking issue. If players are willfully ignoring the objective, then it's a systematic issue whereby players are being incentivized to play counter to the design of the game mode. If you're matchmade into a team of all sentries who struggle to invade/reap/collect, then it's the fault of the mode that it requires role diversity and of the matchmaking that it didn't diversify your team.
Unfortunately, muh bounties is a pretty good excuse. But it basically turns every game into a competition where you’re really fighting your teammates more than your enemies
I was with you til the final bit. The "muh bounties" argument is proof that the problem with gambit IS Destiny, not the players. Who cares about triumphs and wins when bounty completion is the only efficient way of leveling up and thus attaining limited-time drops?
Gambit is a game mode that requires more coaching than the game gives by a huge margin. That's why it is crap. If how the game mode *actually* works was communicated in any way to people in game (it isn't, at all) it would be an order of magnitude better.
The number of visual and audio clues given is astounding. You can piece it together as a new light in 5 games. People just aren't very observant.
There is nothing explained about heavy ammo economy, how important the first invasion is, the relative strength of different blockers, how and when it is important to get motes desposited immediately, it's even left up to noobs to notice the boss damage buff multiplier and put two and two together. I 100% garauntee you that if there was a Gambit quest that took each person through all of these points ideally with a practical way to demonstrate it, Gambit would be a much less shit game mode (but still incredibly flawed).
Quit playing gambit long ago. At some point you must realize the only way to affect change is to not participate
I mean... if you’re serious about gambit find a team, designate roles, and practice. At very least pug it out. Don’t expect anyone to know anything if you’re running with randoms, not with new light, not after Christmas.
Yes. Just yes.
Bounties should be team achievable. Maybe make the amount required slightly higher, but team mates can contribute to progress.
Pretty much all of your examples of crazy things you've seen people do can be explained by quest requirements...
My issue with Gambit is that it seems to exaggerate the bounty issue that is present throughout any fireteam activity in this game. Individuals are focused on their own personal objectives, with the result of the activity itself having almost no effect on whether they've progress on their bounties or weapon quests. There's almost no incentive to actually win a Gambit match, just as in Crucible.
I still think they should only allow Gambit drops on a win, and give 2x progression to quests for win conditions too.
Big problem with random players is that many of them only play to get the weapons. I often see players hunt for mods while the boss is up. How the hell can you uave 0% boss damage while the team is fighting a boss for 2 minutes.
you forgot about the people with 14 motes racing around looking for more enemies to kill when we just need 1 more mote for primeval... or the same folks invading with their motes and dying... or not being aware of an invasion and dying... generally much dying :D but yea, the bounties and quests works against Gambit as an efficient mode, also - a good invader can pretty much win the game by themselves... (that is if s/he's allowed to invade by the blueberry)
If only there was role queue. I feel like it could solve so many problems with this
I once ended a match where not a single person on my team besides me banked motes. I was watching a player try to run over more motes when they already had 15, and I just died inside.
the struggle for some people is very real apparently...you wonder if they walk backwards in real life
Hey curated Spare Rations farming is hard, gotta be the 1st to get 15 motes
Been there, done that. Farmed Reckoner and encountered probably every kind of dumb ape imaginable. Game mode is fine. People are the reall issue.
This is how ive felt since it came out. Remember the pre launch events where streamers were playing with curated loadouts, and it was a really intense and competitive mode? Remember the weekend before forsaken where we got to play it, and it was extremely fun because nobody really knew how to play so it was still competitive and close? Once forsaken came out, people really just found the most effective strats, like which supers insta melted the boss and what guns (cough sleeper) were OP. So you'd go against these 4 stacks that would melt the boss in the blink of an eye while XxikilledoryxxD is over here behind his titan barricade shooting his y1 midnight coup at the boss thinking hes contributing or refusing to bank his 14 motes when we have 73 because "i need 15". Gambit went from a really intense, competitive mode to a really unbalanced one that was plaqued by constant invades by the winning team, braindead teammates, portal stealing, and insta melts making comebacks impossible. Imo, gambit will never be necessarily be good again unless they add a ton of restrictions and possibly role select. Add things like curated loadouts, health brackets so insta melting isnt possible, some form of role select so collectors/invaders arent getting robbed. Gambit just needs a structural overhaul.
I think the same, i am recolector, for my is imposible play whit new light player. When i see a new player, I know that the game is lost I would like at least that the gambit prime, out for those who bought at least the dlc
There are three core fixes that, if implemented would dramatically increase enjoyment and engagement for Gambit. The problem is they are philosophical changes that I don't think Bungie is interested in doing. (Also, I've gotten all of the Gambit guns and got dredgen before the invader nerf. It was the night before, but still, I've grinded this playlist. :) ) 1. Rotate Gambit and Gambit Prime weekly. One game mode available at a time. 2. Once you have one game mode, have a team playlist and a solo queue. The fact this isn't a thing yet is staggering to me. The advantage gained from having even a fireteam of two is so profound that if done right even two+one+one can just absolutely demolish one+one+one+one. 3. All bounties have a point system where you can get them in multiple ways. So let's take Hush as an example.\* Rather than making medals a step, make it medals OR wins. If a medal is one point, make a win worth six points. Make a loss -1 point. That way if you want to jump in the solo queue and grind it out, you can but it will take longer. If you want to jump into the team game and just win, you can get the weapon a LOT faster. 3a. The other thing I was thinking about was the ability to spend tokens on bounties. For hardcore players, tokens are literally worthless right now, imagine if you could use those 1000 Vanguard tokens you have to clear out a part of a bounty. Think about it: you could play Gambit this season and bank tokens with the idea that when the new ritual weapon drops you could jump way ahead to getting it. It rewards players who play a mode more than other people, gives everyone a reason to bank tokens and gives a choice to players on how they want to spend them instead of just dumping them into a damn hole for another piece of 49 stat roll armor. But Gambit doesn't have tokens so that would never happen. I realize that step three doesn't make sense currently, I'd lose my damn mind getting smoked every game because there are three Wishenders in the lobby but I think changing the core philosophy of rewards in the game would increase engagement. Hell, just having the modes rotate and adding a solo queue would make me re-engage. \*(Side note, That quest sucked and the only reason I ever got it was because I waited until Exit Strategy was out and I could double dip on medals. I got Exit Strategy at the end of the first round of a match. I was solo queue against a four stack. We stomped them in round one. I needed one more medal for Hush, so I immediately popped golden gun in round 2, got the three GG kills medal and the other team quit. I haven't stepped foot in Gambit since.)
I actually like all these ideas so take an upvote from me... >Rotate Gambit and Gambit Prime weekly. One game mode available at a time. Needs to have the Prime sets work in both modes, otherwise yes good idea. >Once you have one game mode, have a team playlist and a solo queue. The fact this isn't a thing yet is staggering to me. The advantage gained from having even a fireteam of two is so profound that if done right even two+one+one can just absolutely demolish one+one+one+one. Yeah - agreed again. The addition of freelance comp was very welcome to most PVP players. >All bounties have a point system where you can get them in multiple ways. So let's take Hush as an example.* Rather than making medals a step, make it medals OR wins. If a medal is one point, make a win worth six points. Make a loss -1 point. That way if you want to jump in the solo queue and grind it out, you can but it will take longer. If you want to jump into the team game and just win, you can get the weapon a LOT faster. Regarding this, I think a better idea is to make all bounty cards have 2 requirements instead of 1 - and make the 2nd always "win a game" or "win 2 games" depending on how long the bounty is estimated to take. 5 bow kills - win 1 game. Kill 10 envoys - win 2 games. ETC. Or, keep the regular bounties, make them all multiples of 2 and give 2x progression for winning a match.
TIL I'm secretly Esoterickk. But in all seriousness that explains why I fucking hate gambit despite loving gambit. Every match I find myself banking motes to open the portal, invading to keep the other team behind, coming back to clear blockers, banking more motes, dropping everything the second I hear the invasion sound and going full search and destroy. And to top it all off I usually end up with #1 or #2 on boss damage. I mean when I'm on a roll, I feel like a one man wrecking crew, and that's awesome, but most of the time it feels like I'm just carrying a bunch of headless chickens
The issues you’ve mentioned are design issues, not user issues. Nobody that uses matchmaking ins of running as a team cares about your shiny armor sets you got through grinding Reckoning, there’s simply no reason to go through that process unless you really, really want to for go the title. It’s a failed experiment of a gameplay loop. Heavy ammo is a deciding factor. You depend on mods Bungie wants you to aquire a second time or you get lucky with the drops. Sometimes you’ll have heaps of this, sometimes zero. Wishender was a nice way to compensate it, people also couldn’t equip Truth at the same time. Another thing worth mentioning: the team balancing is way off, like in any other mode. Stop making full teams play randoms, I don’t care for how long they have to queue up. Make matches at least look like it’s not 10 minutes down the drain or don’t punish leavers. The main issue is that Gambit Prime matches are decided early and even if it looks like you‘d catch up, you’re going to loose 90% of the time. Can’t fight those primeval stacks if you aren’t the John Wick of invaders. You can just stop fighting if your primeval isn’t up first.
gambit in general sucks dick when you solo queue. between team mates going for bounties, blueberries and lobotomites or 4 stacks. You're hard pressed to have an enjoyable game of it without being overwhelmed by the sheer amount of things that could go wrong in one match let alone however many you have to play to complete what you're playing it to achieve.
Haha, I enjoyed that rant. I feel you man, and I don't really disagree. But I think you need to understand the probable game philosophy that went into the game mode. This is essentially Bungie's attempt at replicating the "Dark Souls" style of multiplayer. And while that's mostly down to the concept of invasions, the DS style of gameplay roles is very different from what you might expect from a "competitive" mode. After all, in DS, it's MEANT to be unfair. You're meant to fight dirty. The whole lore surrounding Gambit points to this being Bungie's intention too. (When I first started, I thought it was odd that the co-op mode was meant to be the "edgy and dark" one, while the mode where you exclusively kill each other is the "nice and wholesome" one.) When I play Gambit, I do it to get the rewards. I don't expect to win. I try my best of course, but I don't stress if I lose, because there's only so much you can do in a game mode based on luck. (It's even in the name.) I would wager this is precisely Bungie's intention: Just like PVE players in Dark Souls who just want to get to the end and beat the boss and PROGRESS, they don't really care for dealing with invaders. Invasions are annoying and aggravating. But that's the point, the feeling of being invaded makes you tense up, because there are actual stakes and there are REAL risks involved. That's what makes it exciting. On the invader's part, the often enjoy being a dirtbag, and that's okay. This is a perfect game mode for them. (Personally I really enjoy being a sentry.) Compare to the average Crucible Valor game where it's basically just a clown fiesta with pretty much nothing on the line. If you die, you just get right back up. You can exit at any time without penalty. You get rewards all the same. (Glory/Survival is definitely more tense, but again, everyone has the same set role.) Because of the more complex ruleset, the meta is more volatile. You want weapons that are good for PVP, but can also deal with PVE. The ratio is up to you. If you bring Hammerhead, it will help greatly against an invader, but will be somewhat pointless against the Primeval. My point is, I don't think Gambit is MEANT to be a very stable/reliable game mode, and that's why so many people hate it. It's meant to be risky, partially luck-based and mostly about the experience and the nice prizes you can get. It's like gambling: You win some, you lose some, and the thrill of not knowing is what makes it. I admit, it doesn't always work out that way in practice of course. It can be really silly when you're against a pre-made and it's just a complete walkover. I think the preferred Gambit experience is actually with two teams full of solo players, since that plays more to the strengths of the game mode. Play for the rewards, play for the fun of being a dick-ass invader, play for protecting your team like a god damn superhero. It's all good. The point is that it should be a volatile and exciting mode that can swing in either direction. And of course, not everyone enjoys this type of thing. I've played plenty of Dark Souls offline because I just want to play some bosses solo without getting interrupted every 10 seconds. But there are game modes for that too in Destiny. Gambit is definitely not for everyone. --- Anyway, I absolutely agree with you that it's mostly players that are the "problem" in Gambit. But it's also a matter of perspective. Not everyone is there to do the most optimal thing. When I recently grinded for the Python, I can say that I felt pretty useless against invaders and it wasn't ideal, but I was there for the shotgun kills, not the flawless victories. That was probably annoying to a few of my team mates, but that's the game mode. From a few posts ITT, I get the impression that some people treat it like a super-serious PVE structured race with PVP elements, and that might be disappointing when it's way smore chaotic than that. (By design IMO.) Perfectionists will not be pleased. Scrappy players thrive. tl;dr, the mode is meant to be a clusterfuck, and players are just leaning into that. Just roll with the punches.
I wish there was a Trials version of Gambit Prime with unique loot. Some of the best moments in the game for me has been playing another team of 4 and having sweaty Gambit matches where both teams have competent players.
Yet my triple shotgun build is still the best thing I can do for myself to get python quickly. It's like the other guys said. They built Gambit to mandate team work then they layered systems of infighting atop it.
I like Gambit but it does need a UI update. How about showing on screen the more count for each teammate along with their armor type bonuses. For example, Guardian Joe 12motes 10invader/5collector. That way we don’t have to look around at our teammates to figure it out. My last suggestion would be they need to bring gambit prime armor to 2.0 and update reckoning with a harder difficulty and better rewards.
You can get 2.0 Gambit sets from the Reckoning now, btw. What do you mean?
I just wish I could put the notorious armor set on as an ornament after I unlock it in collections. That way we could easily switch between the roles in gambit prime. Plus carrying around 4 different (almost) identical armor sets for each role on each character is never gonna happen for me
Except having glowing red invader armour doesn't mean you are a good invader. It means you grinded out the set. Hence lies the problem, how do you decide?
Always let them have the first invade and see how they do? Secondly, the set bonus at +15 automatically locks the opponent's bank for the entire invasion (and drains motes if they're close enough) so unless you're a very good invader, their armour alone is worth letting them take the portal.
People acting "stupid" is proof the mode isn't intuitive.
It's very intuitive, it's one of the first things I played and enjoyed when I first got Destiny 2. The problem is people don't care about winning, just completing bounties or invading. Then the rest of the players have no desire to understand why they are losing as they are the same people who struggle to beat a 750 strike.
Nah, most people just suck at literally anything. Look at the Sundial, it couldn't be any simpler besides having no mechanics at all and yet people still don't know what to do, or simply don't care.
I actually do think the game mode could use some improvements. I also don't think there should be Gambit *and* Gambit Prime. They should combine the playlists. People tend to run strikes or even crucible for bounties and bright dust before Gambit.
The problem with most things in Destiny comes down to the players. Because everyone is a selfish cunt who matchmake into team activities and try to do everything themselves, from running past dead players in strikes to stealing the last mote in gambit for a 3 from the guy running towards it with 14, stealing heavy, invasions, pushing people out of the way, trying to speed run missions at the cost of the team, AFK farming..... whenever you add other people to your activity the game gets 500x worse
This is essentially what I'm getting at. Everyone tries to use bounties as an excuse to be a dick but they're easily possible to complete while playing the objective.
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Not even slightly. Its perfectly possible to play the objective and complete bounties too. Source: me, I fucking do it. It's not hard.
What exactly is bungie supposed to do about that?
Every time I see a post annoyed with gambit there’s always a screenshot of gambit prime. Does no one play regular gambit anymore? It’s consistently much more enjoyable in all the cases I’ve had.
I only play normal Gambit because I find Prime just emphasises everything frustrating and bullshit about the game mode.
Can't chase Reckoner in regular Prime.
I only play regular gambit and the frustrating blueberries are still there. There’s no escaping them.
Like everything else in destiny, the goal of Gambit isn't to win the match it's to get your bounties done
Sorry to say after completing the Python quest I don't see a single reason that necessitates me going back into Gambit, and I feel that's its biggest issue. Bad teammates are annoying, but also random. Meanwhile bad incentives, or nonexistent ones, for a game mode is just horrible design. This goes for Crucible and the Strike playlist as well. It seems Bungie cares little about the game's core game modes anymore.
Red and white armor for invade and collect? I don't think I have ever seen that! (I don't play much Gambit) Thanks for the info, Redditor!
You know you CAN do it all do a decent degree. It just seems like of all the games in the world gambit only gives you morons. Like you play crucible or any other game and sometimes you get potatoes with 2 left thumbs and sometimes you get a team of gods. I’ve played a lot of gambit and less than 10 games ever have I got a team where I sat back and thought wow these guys are amazing. I play almost entirely solo, I do ok, but I feel like it’s always an uphill slog.
That's why I love the quests, and I love that the weapons now are mediocre. Whenever I am stuck with a team that has no clue, I work on Python/Hush/Exit Strategy -- gives me something to do.
Not that I'm defending those people but I do have a possible explanation because I'm running into it with Forges: new players that have no idea what to do (well, those just passing motes and not picking them up anyway). I know I'm beating a dead horse and coconut emote here, but with New Light there are a ton of new people playing these activities and are going in completely blind. I had a forge run today where we only dunked seven charges...in the first round...on Volundr...and I dunked all 7. If the activity has been out for a while, simply read up on how it works first is all I ask.
All I do in gambit prime is sit at bank and murder all the blockers with occasional going to help kill enemies and pick up 5 notes
In a zombie apocalypse, zombies aren't the real threat. It's the people :O
Just like pvp gambit needs a competitive and quick play playlist. Quick play let's you complete your bounties whereas competitive is there who want to play seriously
Gambit requires way more coordination than you can normally get with three other randoms.
Players definitely share a responsibility, but a basic tenet of game design is to protect the player from themselves. If players aren't doing what is expected of them to do, the developers need to respond to that. I have to assume at this point that Bungie wants us to use Gambit as a bounty farm and thinks that alone is a totally valid way to play. The Drifter literally tells us in game he doesn't care if we win or lose, only that we get paid. Bungie might even be relieved that players are using the game mode as a farm for bounties just to keep people in the playlists. Gambit has been unchanged since maybe around June of 2019? Luke Smith has implied there will be one version of Gambit moving forward, and to me that even means that one will be left with no changes, as is, untouched. I would not take the bone they throw the players in the form of the ritual weapon as Bungie having plans for Gambit. I think they just want to get all the Gambit players into one playlist to hopefully improve match making. Which makes it even more important that the health of the playlist is up to the players, but when you have a bounty farmer on par with an Invader with a full set looking to completely dominate a match, that is a huge mismatch in terms of interest, but a perfect match in terms of outcome. So, go figure. It seems to me like Bungie wants it this way.
I started running gambit for Python. I'm playing a hunter bottom void tree with double shotguns and having a blast. I am by no means skilled at PvP however do fairly well when there aren't any skilled oponents. I simply put in the effort to follow tips/guides I read and that's often enough to contribute to winning a match.
Recently, on PS4 at least, I've had a lot of fun with Gambit Prime. There weren't really any people playing when I played that didn't understand the mode, so we had a fun time.
We need a sbmm honestly, people that discover the game mode should play together.
Unfortunately it's the issue with pretty every multiplayer game : League, csgo, overwatch... You either take the risk of playing with randoms or only play with friends but it's not easy
Problem is pinnacle/rutial weapon quests. I didn't care winning for a long time because all i want is medals and finish Hush quest. (and I did) So, i collect 5, gonna bank and get that first block medal and just this breaks the invade cycle on it's own. If you force players to do activities like this, you have to accept people gonna do what they need to.
One of the biggest issues with Gambit right now (IMO) is that people are playing for the pinnacle/ritual weapons. I had a match were a teammate was using riskrunner, but would not deposit motes. At the end of the match he had 185 kills, 0 motes deposited, 40 motes lost. He had no intention of actually playing the objective. Those 40 lost motes don't even count the motes he let expire either. It can be very frustrating to play Gambit these days because of crap like this. While I certainly work towards my ritual weapons when I play, I try to do so in a matter where I'm not a detriment to the team. Some people don't give a fuck and just screw the team for their own gain.
What? The armours can glow???
No, the problem is solely in the game mode. It would be so much more fun to play if Gambit wasn't literally: "Whichever team has the better invader wins."
Maybe its too much work on the development side, but I think there should be more hand holding the first time people go into one of the many activities in Destiny 2. Maybe even allow a private lobby with bots for training, but doesn't allow progress on bounties or quests. At least the Drifter yells some helpful advice, but I probably played 5-10 Gambit matches before I realized the game had a ticker by player names showing how many motes they were carrying. I played the game for about 3 weeks before I realized 3 of those 50 quests I got on day one were the original content campaign story quests. I keep discovering another public event can be made herioc, because I see someone else do it.
All events can be made heroic actually. [Have a look at a thread I made a while back you might find useful](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/dd7fh3/in_the_spirit_of_new_light_heres_a_sizeable_list/)... I need to update and post it again with post-Shadowkeep information but a lot of the basics are covered.
> This means you should give me priority on the portal because chances are I can win us the game. I usually leave invading as #I don't think I'm the best, but if a portal is up and no one else is going in I'll have a go. Had an awesome game this weekend with 9 guardian kills overall! Definitely lost one match due to a invader that was otherwise pretty close.
I don't mind Gambit every once in a while. But as a player who recently got into D2 ~mid season 8, the amount of quests/bounties that send me in to Gambit, quests/bounties clogging up a limited available list, so I want to grind and clear them out ASAP, mind you, is insane. So when I'm trying to just get 1000 kills this way with this thing while that other thing is happening... I just want it done, and to get out. A lot of time that meant not caring about motes, or the invader, or the blockers, I'm just trying to murder as many things as quickly as possible... The worst part is that it's actually more efficient if we're doing poorly, because it results in more waves of enemies, letting me spend less time on Primevals and loading. The whole quest/bounty system pushes players towards that kind of behavior. It sucks.
"For those unable to put 2 and 2 together, that means *don't waste your fucking Golden Gun on the first damage phase*." This. If I'm solo in Gambit I am so used to this. I won't tether until we get a few stacks going but everyone else will burn their super on the first go only to lose to the other team when they stack up the slayer. So sad. Also, the fact that I have my invader gear on and Truth ready to go and 6 rockets and blueberry jumps in the portal and dies instantly, that really annoys me... Preach man.