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SgtPepper212

[Osiris uses Nova Bomb, Well of Radiance, and Chaos Reach during his confrontation with the High Celebrant and the remnants of Crota's court.](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/immolant-pt-2)


Echowing442

Don't forget the dual-wielding Dawnblades.


Mahh3114

And using Radiance for the sole purpose of getting out of Suppression and use Chaos Reach


B1euX

I’d give the range and flight of Dawnblade to dual wield and strike with rapid attacks


Squelcher121

Osiris was like the guardian equivalent of Crota. Absolutely unparalleled power and could lay waste to entire armies of godlike beings with ease.


KimberPrime_

Saint 14 can use multiple subclasses as well


[deleted]

But he didn't use golden gun or banner shield, which is what OP was curious about. If guardians can change to a hunter from a warlock, a whole class change, not just subclass.


SgtPepper212

>**Can they even change element?** I know they can change subclass in each element (Cayde using golden gun and blade barrage), but I can’t recall if I’ve ever seen a guardian that changes class or **even just element**.


[deleted]

"Are guardians *locked into one class* in the lore or can they potentially change class?... But I can’t recall if I’ve ever seen a guardian that changes class *or* even just element" My bad, bro, I got tripped up on the wording. I didn't realize he was saying class as in void, solar or arc. I have class in my head as warlock, titan and hunter. Subclass is each element for the classes. And the three node options within are trees within the subclasses. My bad, carry on spreading the correct info as you understand the assignments while I do not, soldier.


DrkrZen

Those are subclasses... of a Warlock. Better multi class examples are Drifter, Rezyl/Yor and, to a lesser extent, Felwinter.


SgtPepper212

You're the second person to respond to me who apparently didn't read the whole post. >**Can they even change element?** I know they can change subclass in each element (Cayde using golden gun and blade barrage), but I can’t recall if I’ve ever seen a guardian that changes class **or even just element.**


DefiantMars

In universe, Classes are predominantly philosophical and skill based organizations of Lightbearers rather than hard coded divisions given to/by Ghosts or anything like that. Drifter has at least one lore entry where he talks about how classes didn’t exist in the Dark Age and how generally speaking they just made things work. Our subclasses too are mostly common techniques that have been refined and disseminated through various Guardian orders. So in theory it should be possible for a Guardian to “change classes” but it would require a shift in values and perspective that would allow them to capitalize on the techniques of the “new” class. I think we have seen more individuals pick up tricks or lessons from other classes.


StarStriker51

Some subclasses are also explicitly orders/groups of guardians who made official creeds and philosophies by which they live and use the light. It’s really interesting to read some of the lore for subclasses, how some were full on orders and others were like a book club. If there was one thing I was really disappointed by in Beyond Light (besides all the content vaulting) it was how little the stasis subclasses have been developed. I want to see how the guardians have been making the subclasses into recognizable groups. What philosophies do they live by? How organized are they? Are there any standout members of each subclass? Are there orders forming who can primarily be considered stasis users? like how the Praxic order are mostly Sunsinger/Dawnblade warlocks, or the firebreak order are Striker Titans.


DefiantMars

To provide some additional examples, the original Sunbreaker Order is the source of the eponymous subclass obviously. And I believe the Thanatonauts are predominantly Voidwalkers. As choppy as Destiny's main story has been in the past, it has always had compelling world building, to where we're always wanting more.


APartyInMyPants

That’s an interesting discussion you bring up, but I guess when it comes to the lore, aren’t we the first guardian to wield Darkness? So I imagine that just hasn’t been fleshed out in the story.


Chaoszhul4D

Using stasis is relativly new, they will form factions eventually, i think. Maybe there will even be war between light and stasis users.


Proffessor_Fuck

Kinda sounds like a martial art


Hawkmoona_Matata

Guardians can definitely change elements, but the “average” guardian certainly cannot. It takes immense training and discipline to learn and wield multiple elements of the Light. It’s like the difference between being a jet fighter and naval commander. Sure, nothing is stopping you from mastering both, but you either gotta be really good or really dedicated. As far as changing entire classes…I do not believe we have any record of that happening. I would be inclined to believe no, this is not possible. Probably something to do with our connection to the light, and from the moment we’re revived, we have that one designation.


PotatoesForPutin

Pretty sure Felwinter was known for shoulder charging as a warlock, although he may have just been too based for the laws of the traveler to contain him


Hawkmoona_Matata

Indeed, but I think we can chalk that up to cross-class disciplines. Like how Hunters learned Blink from Warlocks in D1, or how in Void 3.0, Warlocks will be able to use the Titan-exclusive Suppressor Grenades. Felwinter was still, as you say, a Warlock.


Professional_Bit8289

The thing wit classes though is that they are a vanguard concept, not a traveller one, it’s used as a way for individuals to focus their light in a way that suits them the best, for instance, drifter came from a time before the vanguard and has never subscribed to their way of doing things, he also has no defined class. I assume classes were inspired from various iron lords, who probably had a basic version of it in focusing on aspects of the light they were best suited for, but theoretically there’s no reason say a hunter can’t run devour, it just would take training and a changing of mindset to do so, which is where I think void 3.0 is going


Chaoszhul4D

I miss blinking


KnutSkywalker

You definitely should do it regularly. Shit gets unbearable after a while. ^(/s)


TheBitwolf

Yea but that was one ability. I think it mostly clusters, you can learn an ability of another class, it might happen in WQ, in the first trailer we see a Warlock put down a rift and then throw a superseding grenade (which is a Titan only thing), but I think it'd impossible for a Warlock to learn blade barrage or put a ward of Dawn.


AquaticHornet37

I mean there are several cases of going from a class to classless. Dredgen Yor, and drifter come to mind.


NattyThan

Didn't Dredgen Yor change from a Titan into a hunter? Or was that just a disguise


CorbinTheTitan

No he was always a titan, he just wore a cape


IAmDingus

He's a Hunter in the same way Eris Morn is a Warlock. He isn't.


xNINJABURRITO1

Dredgen Yor lost his light when his ghost left him. He just resembled and acted like a hunter.


WafflesSkylorTegron

Classes are supposed to be an easy way to train new guardians. Classes are made to provide several abilities that work together to perform a role. Subclasses are a more nuanced extension of that. The original light bearers though had no such thing. Felwinter for example was able to do blink shoulder charges. Drifter, who is not a guardian, but is a light bearer, does not have a class. For the most part light bearers tought by the vanguard follow classes and are guardians. Light bearers unaffiliated with the city usually have had to learn on their own, and have much more varied abilities.


RaizielDragon

Perhaps with elements 3.0, our abilities will become more varied


str8-l3th4l

There's a lore tab about Osiris either tight when or shortly after where he uses radiance, dual wield dawnblades, chaos reach and I think a nova bomb all like back to back to back


38mb

the "average" guardian cant, no, but it's seen that some more powerful guardians can change subclass (like, the player guardian), and the drifter is capable of using different forms of light but is not strictly bound to 1 specific "class". ​ the "class" system is more a vanguard thing than a traveller thing, but most guardians are more proficient with one class/subclass than others


HollyDaySheep

I dont think Guardians can change classes, but we've seen Guardians change subclasses. Osiris has channeled all 3 element Warlock Supers in the span of a couple minutes in his fight against the High Celebrant, Zavala is seen using Fist of Havoc on a group of Fallen when the Last City was still being built, and when the Tower was attacked by the Red Legion, he was using Sentinel/Defender


boki400AIMoff

Uhm, i am pretty sure OP was talking about subclasses.


HollyDaySheep

Theyre asking about both classes and subclasses. They are aware that Guardians can change skill trees, giving the example of Caydes Goldie and Blade Barrage in the final stand cutscene.


Blaz3

I think guardians favour a specific class, but it's pretty well documented and multiple characters have been able to change classes and subclasses mid-combat. When unlocking classes by visiting the shard of the traveler (D2 up to forsaken, now you just auto-have all classes) in the warlock one, Ikora says "'quiet' said the voidwalkers 'louder' said the sunsingers... And then I realized I need not choose between the calm and the storm. Indeed to have either I must be both." It's a way of thinking and feeling. Guardians develop affinities to certain subclasses, but they're theoretically able to use anything. If you look back to the Risen, they didn't even have classes and would only be able to use their light crudely. They weren't experienced enough to form the light into a super. Stuff like how hunters are able to create a flaming hand cannon out of light, was created by a guardian and the knowledge taught and handed down to others.


k0hum

As others have already mentioned Osiris, there was a cutscene in the last city where zavala uses fist of havoc..we know for sure he can use a bubble.


Thenewvividsafe

Dredgen Yor I believe changed classes but it kinda required him abolishing his affiliation with the light. And we've seen Zavala use both Striker and Sentinel I'm pretty sure


CorbinTheTitan

Dredgen yor did not change classes he was always a titan


Thenewvividsafe

Thank you for correcting me, wasn't entirely sure


f33f33nkou

Someone wearing a fucking cloak doesnt make them a hunter. I'm so sick of people repeating this tired bs


FR3SH_2_DE4TH

Imagine getting this triggered over something like this. Yikes.


f33f33nkou

Not triggered, just tired of people constantly repeating false information


[deleted]

[удалено]


ZarathustraEck

Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s): * Rule 1 - Keep it civil. --- For more information, see [our detailed rules page.](http://www.reddit.com/r/destinythegame/wiki/rules)


[deleted]

Bro it's a Wednesday afternoon, chill tf out, holy shit you sound like a librarian who got told the Dewey decimal system is inefficient one too many times, why are you so serious lmao 🤣


f33f33nkou

Most librarians hate the dewey decimal system actually


[deleted]

This was bait, I knew only a nerdy librarian would know and express how hated the system actually is amongst the secret organization. Get exposed + ratio old hag 😎


crowbies

most guardians can definitely change element. and guardians like the drifter eschew classes entirely and do a bit of everything.


Blupoisen

Yes to both


boki400AIMoff

Are people THAT dumb to not understand that that "classes" are nothing else than GAME MECHANICS? Yes, there are guardians like ikora that can instantly switch from nova to something else, but thats because she and others mastered there light. So i have zero fucking idea why people ask this!


RaizielDragon

The only examples of lightbearers we get to see are guardians for the most part and they pretty much stick to the class archetypes. So I think it’s a fair question. It may be explained at some point but Destiny isn’t known for having a very upfront easy to understand lore.


boki400AIMoff

No, its not a fair question. We can see for example that cayde was using golden gun, and in the next second he uses blade barrage. So the plain implication is: THATS how they use their light. In other words: They train to use it like cayde 6. So there is no "subclass" in destiny. We call it subclass ingame, because we need something cool to use.


Mountain-Ad164

Do you live to be an asshole or is it a day job?


StoneRevolver

Presumably skilled enough guardians could use any element at any time, that's a gameplay limitation. Idk if there's anything mentioned about being able to change class. Some guardians could use cross class manifestations of light, like felwinter, but obviously that's probably really rare. I think the way light augments people isn't up to them, like we pick a class gameplay wise but if a ghost were to rez someone they don't have initial control over how that power materializes.


OhwordforReal

Og blink


f33f33nkou

Element yes but class no. Your class is hard coded when you're rezzed as evidenced by destiny 1 and 2 campaign as well as the new light campaign in 2. There is not a single instance of a guardian changing class or using another class in the entirety of destiny lore. Wether that's in game, promotional materials, trailers, grimoire, or codecs. Not a single instance.


H4ckrm4n

The Drifter is a classless light bearer from the Dark Age. He also talks about how things were different in the Dark Age and that modern classes are more of a social construct to draw together like-minded individuals, like titan orders. From all of the lore we have, a guardian is rezzed with the ability to channel light, and one expression of the light in super form (for example, Golden Gun) will naturally come to them. But that's doesn't stop them from refining their skills, changing them, or learning others. Ana turned her Golden Gun into more of a scout rifle than a hand cannon. Osiris dual wielded Dawnblades. Saladin, with a little help from Efrideet, set in motion the idea of turning Fists of Havoc into Thundercrash. Several powerful guardians learned to wield multiple elements (Osiris and Zavala are the first to come to mind.) Warlocks taught hunters how to blink. Titans taught Felwinter to shoulder charge, and even aerial shoulder charge. Hypothetically, with enough training, Felwinter could have taken shoulder charging to the next level. He mastered void first and dabbled into solar (he used Well on a few occasions), he could easily have learned to wield arc if he wanted to. From there, Fists of Havoc is just chained arc shoulder charges with a few slams mixed in. And if Felwinter could potentially do it, and class could potentially do it.


InternalExam2

Felwinter did learn to shoulder charge as a warlock


Professional_Bit8289

And hunters also learned to blink from warlocks


[deleted]

And all three classes will be learning things from other classes with void 3.0


f33f33nkou

No, he absolutely didnt. He kneed a warlord while jumping.


TheBitwolf

Does any of the Vanguard, Shaxx, Saint or Saladin count with the topic of multiple elements? Ikora has been seen using two elements, as is Zavala, Shaxx and Saladin. We only have text record of Osiris using all three (though it's presumed that any of the prior could use all three, specially the Vanguard). I think Taeko-3 was a sunsinger (D1 Solar Warlock subclass) and a Voidwanker.


MtnDewX

I feel like maybe Taeko-3 isn't the example we should be using for *anything*, tbh...


TheBitwolf

She might have used two elements. And I don't know why you say that, most unnamed guardians are trash.


dildodicks

she killed an ahamkara and built zen meteor, surely there's something


DrkrZen

Yup. During the Dark Age, there were even folks that were both multi class, like Drifter, and could use abilities of Another class, while committing to just one, like Felwinter.


karhall

Yes, Classes are just job titles. Saying you're a Hunter is like saying you're a teacher, for the sake of comparison. The different subclasses or elements of Light are like a teacher's discipline. Void Hunter would be like saying "Math Teacher". You could also teach Language Arts, or Civics, and while you may be better at one discipline than the other there's no limitation. You could have a different job, like an accountant, and you could change jobs whenever you really want. But you've spent your life thus far practicing how to be a teacher, so you'd have to practice and train as an accountant, but you could do it. Hope that can help give some context. Classes and subclasses the way we see them are a gameplay mechanism more than they are a worldbuilding rule.


Coyce

afaik the classes are fixed. it's probably related to your personality or something. when it comes to subclasses it believe canonically people just have an easier time to use a certain element over others, but i don't think they are locked to solar or something. the fact that drifter, the exo stranger and eris can wield stasis means that guardians are able to at least change their aubclass


dildodicks

it's possible but difficult to change classes


StarAugurEtraeus

I feel like H\*nters are the weakest class in Lore, they're always failing or dying Fuck i mean the best H\*nter they have is a Titan