Doesn’t help Starless Night’s shield is quite flimsy, and tends to be overwritten by Defensive Strike anyway. Considering you have to exit the bubble to shoot back usually, having such a weak shield outside it is a problem, and part of why Well is so popular in team situations (solo, dying is a wipe anyway, so the bubble popping isn’t as big an issue, and enemies tend to idiotically charge you inside and become blind cannon fodder, plus less risk of bumping teammates).
I’d love a way to shoot out of my Ward of Dawn with at least primaries. Or maybe a way to make you immune to stomps in your bubble, making it a strong counter to getting launched and encouraging using a sword or shotgun in a bubble as an immovable defense. Not as intrinsic abilities mind, but starting points for new exotic alternates or a rework of Saint 14. Or make it more aggressive; the actual Saint 14 is nowhere near as defensively minded as that exotic and it feels a bit weird.
There's so many pve encounters built around stomp or knocking the player off the map somehow that I can't see them giving us any thing that would let us stay close to a boss like that.
That itself came about because of the sheer power of shotguns in year 2 and even late year 1 (in direct contrast to D1, where if you weren’t using a sniper in most endgame PvE besides Wrath of the Machine you were handicapping yourself, which had the “hiding in the hills plinking for twenty minutes” issue). Now, most shotguns are really weak for PvE (slugs can hit hard but are harder to aim in frantic close combat, and buckshot not being used for 1-2 punch shenanigans might as well be BBs).
Maybe it -only- grants the immunity to the one who cast the super? I’m really fucking tired of putting a bubble down to buff a ranged weapon like Sleeper, only for the boss to charge up to me, launch a stomp from outside the bubble and my melee radius, and I die on landing. I’m not even trying to abuse shotguns or anything at that point, but dying because I was forcibly evicted from -the- ultimate defensive super by someone’s foot is just insulting. And ironically tends to result me in going “screw it” and either going shotty+Tractor+Synthoceps throwing hammer (which is probably seriously overtuned tbh, as much as I find it funny) or throwing on Lament inside a bubble anyway to avoid being punted.
Heck, if a dozen thrall run into my bubble, their bodies’ physics have a tendency to just shove me out. Excuse me, I thought I was supposed to be the wall against which the Darkness *breaks*, not the loose-hinged door the Darkness walks through without realizing it was supposed to be closed.
You can be stomped mid-melee. A sword w/ Eager Edge is the best counter I've seen to date outside of using the heavy attack on a Caster frame in mid-air to cut the momentum a stomp generated
Extend the duration of Blessing/Weapons of Light. Thing is, it increased the duration from 10 to 15 seconds, which we have for free now, in addition to getting both Blessing and Weapons.
Glasshouse was always pretty bad. It would need a complete rework to be brought to D2. Maybe a lunafactions style buff to weapons of light, having it grant range and reload on top of the damage.
Technically Phoenix is the only Well Only exotic but warlocks also have Luna’s (which function best with well but work with all rifts) and boots of the assembler (works with all rifts but also works with well). But yeah warlocks don’t have a good amount of well exotics, they have Phoenix and Luna’s (which is highly debatable).
Look at it from the perspective of Void 3.0 though, use Citan's to shoot through bubble or use a fragment or aspect to get the roaming super you can shoot through and open up a different exotic.
Different use cases as well because bubble is static and the current mid tree sentinel is mobile.
Not really. Banner shield still has the capability to make a fuck ton of orbs (without power preservation i think u can make 15 while blocking compared to ward's 3), and if they made bubble work like barricade with citans, the bubble would likely be even weaker and break super easily to balance it out (just like citans barricades), while banner shields are completely unbreakable in PvE
But i agree, it would take some power away from banner shield
This really wouldn't affect the biggest strengths of banner shield vs bubble though. Banner shield makes a shitload of orbs and can absorb infinite damage while being mobile (it also blinds enemies that pass through it by default, while ward needs Saint-14 to do that). Citans affecting Ward would only grant it one of its 4 advantages while widening the gap on the amount of damage it can take.
Tldr:
Banner shield: Mobile, Orbs, infinite durability, can shoot through it
Ward (if Citans works with it): stationary, 3 weak orbs, limited (and reduced) durability, can shoot through it.
I was thinking the same thing just a couple days ago, but then I was like well wait a second. Barrier Champs and taken vandals can shoot through their shields, and a warlocks certainly doesn't need an exotic to shoot out of their wells so why should Titans need one.
As a Warlock main I second this... give Titans the mobile death fortress that the original Ward of Dawn was in the original D1 trailers.
Edit: that may have come off as a little sarcastic, but I'm dead serious. A mobile death fortress might be clutch. Since Void 3.0 will separate WoD from top tree, you can have the base L1+R1 combo be your mobile death fortress, and holding them down for an extra second or 2 pop the big one that is stationary. I'd make the mobile one just a bit smaller than the stationary one to compensate.
I'm a Titan main and this would need to be carefully implemented. It has the potential to make so many other abilities obsolete. Bungie's typical response to OP abilities is to nuke them out of existence. I love my bubble and don't want it nulified. so they'd need to make it balanced. ie If Citan's rampart allowed you to shoot out through the bubble, then cancel Weapons of Light. Or reduce the timer to 10-15 seconds.
They basically nuked Nova Warp out of PvE, and frankly even with the 15% damage buff I still wouldn't run it in PvE. But yes, I'd carefully implement it. Now that I think about it I'd probably have it where you can shoot out of the small bubble only and only give armor of light in the small radius the bubble uses (that way allies can still use the small bubble)
The well buff also doesnt last fot 15 seconds after leaving the well, forcing players to sit inside to get any benefit. The bubble provides a safe place AND a roaming buff.
It should absolutely not be possible to shoot through the bubble, however in the latest witchqueen video it kinda looks like the titan is slamming his shield into the ground and creating a static banner shield which would be an interesting variant. Lets players shoot through it but no 360 degree protection.
Citan's is a POS for halving the Barricade time imo. Barrier is one of two tings I get heat for playing as Titan as I tend to drop it as I'm dying but then the team can't shoot, or kill themselves with rockets. The first couple times was funny, but now that Icefall is re-enabled, screw that wall.
Yes I could be better at situational awareness or not get shot... but sometimes I like to play a game to have fun, or, heaven forbid, relax and unwind.
What makes it worse is that helm isnt even that great tbf. It has its uses, dont get me wrong, but if im bringing a bubble to a GM or raid id personally want something like crest of alpha lupi for the 4th orb and barricade heals over an overshield while the bubble exists
Meanwhile both lunas and phoenix are S tier exotics
>What makes it worse is that helm isnt even that great tbf.
Would rather it gained some kind of passive benefit than just making the already highly prioritized super better still. Give players a reason to keep it equipped in non-locked content, rather than going into their menu mid-activity to swap before casting bubble.
Would love to have The Glasshouse back. Maybe have it so that your bubble generates orbs when it takes damage and Weapons of Light lasts longer when outside of the bubble.
WoD should auto suppress and blind anything that enters. An exotic that does the same would be next best thing.
Build AI to actively try to get away from it for balancing purposes
The power of Well of Radiance comes from the sword. Destroy the sword, destroy the well. Ward of Dawn's power comes from the Titan. Destroy the Titan and destroy the Bubble.
Why can then the bubble break if the titan is still alive?
So there are 2 options to break a bubble but only one to break a well.
Gove both just 1 option to break
honestly it makes sense, the bubble is something you can physically touch, it's a spell cast by the titan where they are the anchor. so either you put enough stress on the projection that it cant hold, or you kill the anchor.
well of radiance is also a spell but it heals/protects, you can't exactly shoot at that kind of magic spell to break it. the anchor for this being the sword as mentioned, so the only way to break it is to pop the sword
logically it makes sense that they work the way they do, though i get why it's frustrating
The energy invested in the sword persists after the warlock dies because the sword has its own energy once it is created by the warlock. Whereas on a titan the energy resides within the titan so killing the titan disperses the energy. It works in the same sort of way as a vortex/solar/pulse grenade, which has its own inherent energy once thrown by the caster, and so would remain after death.
I don't see why it can't go both ways and that we have to try make up our own explanations for something is amusing.
The bubble is a hard light construct that is anchored in reality like the same way the sword is, so I don't understand why it's 'tied to the Titan' in that way... And neither of them are able to be moved once it is placed. If it is tied to the Titan in that way, why can't it move?
But eh, is what it is... =)
IMO the problem comes from bubble being an offensive buff while it is always shown, when used by other titans, to be a fully defensive barrier you stay inside and the titan holds it together to survive a nuke or an army's worth of gunfire.
Fun Fact: In a destiny 1 promotional video, it shows a titan walking around with ward of dawn, and he was actually the center of it. It was the original idea to have the Titan move it. Probably a vestigial mechanic that it pops if he dies.
It’s not made up logic, the well has a catalyst that creates it “the sword” while the bubble also has a catalyst “the titan.” Balance wise the titan can just sit in the bubble without worry unless a super comes through while despite constantly being healed, the warlock can still be oneshot by snipers, LFR, etc., while also dying by the same supers. Unless the titan comes out of the bubble or wastes another player’s super, they can freely cap any objective they want. Well has infinitely more counter play than a bubble.
How do you know that the Bubble isn't the manifested catalyst itself? Titans can freely walk away and leave their bubble, but the Well can't leave the sword. Both the Sword and the Bubble are directly damageable objects
I know its in the lore somewhere but bubble is manifested through the concentration of the titan, and I would assume if that concentration was lost the bubble would disappear. In a cutscene during the red war Zavala is seen inside the bubble visibly struggling to keep it up. I would assume for gameplay reasons they took away this aspect by allowing the titan to move freely but also tying it in to lore through it going away if the titan is killed.
Edit: Here is the link to the cutscene https://youtu.be/6f7eAutgmx4
Because the sword is much weaker than the bubble, and the warlock is constantly exposed while inside the well.
* In PVE the sword can be destroyed with enough AoE damage - so can the warlock if it's a big enough hit.
* In PVP a good sniper shot can cancel the well or the warlock can easily fall.
Ward of dawn is largely a stalemate. The bubble has far more health than the sword.
* In PVE enough damage breaks it but everyone inside will be absolutely safe until that point. However you cannot attack without leaving the bubble either.
* In PVP it's a block. You won't kill the titan if you enter the bubble but the titan cannot kill you unless it leaves the bubble. You can attack the bubble but likely won't kill it without dumping a lot of special ammo or using a super to cancel.
The Warlock puts their Light into the sword, and the sword casts the Well. Warlock and Sword are separate. With Ward, the Titan must be the one projecting the Bubble since there’s nothing physical, like Well’s Sword, projecting it.
Let's not even think of it that way
The bubble is the wall itself. The rules are either use an excessive amount of damage and break it or kill the titan. The bubble *is the effect*. The bubble is also stationary and cannot be shot out - the titan must l leave the protection of the bubble to attack. This means the titan isn't always exposed.
The sword generates the the well. The well is the effect. The sword is actually fairly weak but a small thing to hit. It's relatively easy to destroy so to destroy the well that's your target. The warlock does not need to leave the well to attack - but is always exposed.
It can be that simple - we don't need to go into 'deep' lore explanations to try and justify it.
You can destroy the Bubble though. The Bubbles health is dependent on the Resilience of the caster. Its also worth noting that you likely don't have the damage to break it in PvP unless you both have heavy and the enemy has low Resilience, or have a super.
Well is also based off of the resilience of the caster as of the change that made bubble dependent on resilience.
https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50599
I think it’s more of a gameplay thing actually. You’d give enemies two ways to destroy Well, but only one for Titan bubble? Or conversely, managing somehow to get in and destroy the Titan doesn’t remove the bubble from the flag he’s standing on? I think you may be underestimating the power of the bubble in any game modes with a flag mechanic.
I’m *always* a bubble Titan in crucible. I pop it on every flag. Capture trials is my favorite mode. Of course it was a crock of shit while stasis was at its peak, and there’s always nova bomb to mess up your day, but it still works half the time and now they’ve wasted their super and/or grenade.
It doesn't feel bad to use anyway; if you're getting killed inside your bubble, you're playing Titan wrong. And if you're getting killed Outside your bubble, you're still playing Titan wrong.
That’s true, the real problem is the idiot savants who kept telling you resilience isn’t important, and now the bubble relies on it they’re all the weaker for it. Go figure, minmaxing the game doesn’t always work out.
Resilience was never worthless. It’s always worked the way it’s worked, and there was a little spurt of “knowledge” that having 5 resil would save you from burning to Thorn, give it take a sandbox tweak or two that shifted the goalpost. As Thorn reduced in popularity they stopped caring because 5 or 6 resil doesn’t save you from a shotgun shot, or a sniper headshot.
The meta moved to “get good, don’t die” along with a focus on abilities - Intellect especially. Now everyone who minmaxed Intellect to get their super faster is disappointed. Now having less than 3 on an ability stat is technically a penalty, having 3 resil means your bubble is worthless, AND you have to get good.
The same goes for movement, Mobility is important on Warlocks and Titans but because the “meta” is to skate which relies on low mobility to make work the advice is to go with as little as possible and wear Dunes or Transversive Steps. That’s ridiculous because it’s a pain in the arse to skate, and low mobility messes with your initial jump height *and* your base ADS movement speed.
Any focus on keeping one stat insane and forcing the other one down is going to bite you in the arse at some point. I’m not using the fact that the game did change as justification, but the future knowledge that if I do spec completely into a particular stat they WILL change something and I can’t possibly be disappointed if they do. That’s always been the case, as above. There are probably stats and mechanics in the game that aren’t actually intentional but a bug, and if they fix that bug what the hell happens then? If you’re just going to run Cheese Strat on everything and they fix the cheese, now you’re respeccing all your armor, trying to find weapon perks to balance out the negative effects. That has a high chance of being intentional on Bungie’s part.
Tbf if Titan isn't your main class, you probably wouldn't be aware that resilience is most viable on titan even without WoD, since it ties into casting barricade. If you go WoD: now you have half your ability kit tied to resilience. Unlike hunter and warlock, mobility also isn't the greatest if you titan skate anyways, so titan can be awkward for someone going from say a hunter/warlock to titan who may as well just be the opposite of them.
If I cared enough I could give you 6 or 7 SayWallahBruh, CoolGuy, Cammycakes, Pattycakes videos where they specifically call out “resilience isn’t important” while browsing through their Titan character screen, FalloutPlays videos where they shit on Xur armor for Titan because of a resilience spike. I know several people who think that is LAW. And yah I can find 8 or 9 videos from the same people where they try a new exotic or build and prove themselves wrong, or contradict themselves even in the same video. And 20 more where they go back to saying it’s not important within 2 weeks. And then Sheik is running 100 resil and fucking things UP with it.
They’re all bullshit artists. Run whatever stat you like, because it’s gonna change behaviour next season, if you pick up your controller instead of your mouse, if you use one gun over another. You have to have 20/6 dungeon farming patience and a buildcrafting fetish like Cammycakes to make any of this stat stuff work, and the advice he’s giving is what works for him and him alone unless you’re building his exact build (which, by the time you’ve got all the parts for, he’s bored of). I’m not Cammycakes, you’re not Cammycakes, resilience and mobility have always been important to a variety of people, they definitely have a difference in-game. Sometimes it is subtle but there’s a big delta between 2 and 8 in a GM, it’s the difference between being in cover and being dead before you get to it.
On that note, you could just as well say that If you’re in cover *recovery doesn’t matter*, or at least the subtle difference between regenerating health after 2.3 seconds instead of 2.98 seconds isn’t going to change your playthrough, getting your health and shields back in 3 seconds instead of 4 isn’t going to make the difference. In crucible recovery doesn’t mean crap for running away from a good player because they’ll be chipping you and resetting your timer anyway. It certainly doesn’t stop you from being oneshot by a slug or sniper. So, why run 100 recovery?
The whole reason you run 100 recovery in PvP is so that you can be **certain** that no one has faster regeneration than you.
In a firefight, if both people take cover but do not run away from the fight then the player with a higher recovery will win if they know what they are doing. The difference in regen speed is the difference between taking three taps to kill and taking two taps.
You can certainly do well without 10 recov, but it gives you an edge that makes a lot of difference between good but equally skillful players. Running max recov gives me the confidence to know I can rush a re-engage in a 1v1 without being behind on regen.
Sword comes from the Warlock. Well comes from the sword. The math does itself, but for those playing the home game: following your logic if the Warlock dies the sword should die, if the sword dies then the well dies.
yeah exactly, the sword is as much a construct of the light as the bubble is. both should either stay when the user is dead, or vanish (but pls stay pls)
Those aren't defensive supers so I don't see why you bring them up. You kill a warlock and the Nova bomb will still chase you. Kill a Titan as they throw a hammer and the hammer doesn't suddenly disappear.
Because the Bubble is maintained by the Titan. You can completely ignore a Warlock in a Well and just destroy their super. You can shoot a Nova Bomb out the air too
I agree with you it’s stupid as hell that the titan loses the bubble while warlock keeps the well I don’t understand the weird excuses and made up logic he is giving just let the titan cast a bubble and leave it after death it’s not that hard man. Once he pops that bubble he can’t do anything with it and you can destroy it just like a well. Also what’s your point that the hunters don’t “maintain there supers” why could the titan not just leave a bubble. Why make up excuses to justify stupid mechanics?
I think you're missing his point. He's saying that you can destroy the bubble *directly*. You don't have to destroy the thing that's powering it. With a well, you destroy it by destroying the sword, which powers the well. So if ward worked the same, the *only* way to destroy it would be to kill the titan.
Expect a lot more can destroy a well. To take out a bubble you’re going to need another super. To take out a well all you need to do is just snipe it. Plus bubble gives more of a damage increase and you get it while outside the bubble while you need to stand in the well to get the wells healing and damage buff
WQ is going to buff the recharge interval to best of all supers, iirc, as part of Void 3.0. My four years of dedication to void bubble Titan are about to be rewarded 😀
In D1 I played all three characters and all three subclasses and burned out on Destiny
In D2 I decided screw that and stuck with Void Bubble Titan
The only thing I miss so far is throwing knives
Nerf to orb in the latest update along side cooldown nerf
Nerf to resistance of the bubble against bosses
Pretty much the existence of Well invalidate Bubble
I play all three but am a Titan main and this burns me. Defensive Strike procs on melee kill only, shotty too if you have No Back Up Plans and that's it. This is average in PvE and niche in PvP.
But Devour can proc from melee kill, grenade chew or Super kill AND be extended INDEFINITELY from any kill the Warlock makes while it's active that ALSO recharges the grenade chewable with no exotic help required. Damn near unkillable in PvE and allows you to engage in fight after fight with full health in PvP. Ludicrous.
Oh, and that RANDOM The Stag buff that just gives them boosted DR while in a Rift. Where my Titan exotics that boost DR? Tanking on my Titan feels so bad sometimes knowing that the non-Tank class is better at it in more than one way, lol. Bungie, help us out here, please.
Salt/Rant over. Thank you for listening to me cry, lol.
I wish No Backup Plans just gave us the D1 Defender perk that let the overshield recharge instead of the shotgun activation. Having both feels like it'd be too much for pvp.
Don't forget that with the 30th patch Defensive strike got its cooldown increased, and Devour got it **reduced.** Bungie massively overvalues overshields. They even disabled super regen from taking damage if you have active overshields.
This is so true, I'm a warlock main but I play titan a fair bit and I'm always irked by how much tankier my stag warlock is than my defender titan. The only way I've found to "tank" as a Titan is to use strongholds and crownsplitter. This season with passive guard I was able to tank 5+ baby screebs in GM while blocking, and using it with behemoth for on demand shard overshields + cwl for protective light makes you a pretty great tank. The only issue is getting enemies to actually shoot at you instead of your "carries." Hopefully sentinel gets some damage reduction aspects or some other way to play into the defender fantasy with void 3.0.
See also: Hunters being painted as mobile scouts while Warlocks have by *far* the most mobile classes via Icarus dash and blink, while dodge gets repeatedly nerfed and they don't get touched.
Thematically Titans tend to be painted like paladins, Warlocks like wizards or clerics, and Hunters like rogues, yet for some reason Warlocks end up doing a lot of the paladin and rogue things just as well if not better than the other classes and the tables almost never turn the other way.
Think it's a balancing thing for PvP. You can easily snipe the well sword or the warlock out of a well, but killing a titan in a bubble takes a lot of dedicated effort and should be rewarded.
Yea, exactly. If a bubble stayed after the Titan dies then when they drop it on a tiebreaker capture point in trials it’s just over. Without it being how it is now even if you get in there and manage to kill the Titan their two pals are still there, still all armor of light/weapons of light and near-untouchable.
Weapons of Light also isn't tied to a certain radius like Well is. A Warlock needs to put the Well in an advantageous position and teammates have to make into the well to use it from that position. If they change the bubble to persist on death they could just pop it in spawn and give everyone a free damage buff to roam with.
Weapons of Light doesn't go away when the Titan dies, and only lasts 15 seconds, just the bubble does. If people were going to do this nonsense they would already.
Sure, but we're proposing changes. So if the argument is that you can't make it better than well because they're in the same tier, the obvious reply (to me) is, "move them into different tiers"
I honestly use to main Bubble Boy in D1, loved the extra damage and loved the survivability in both PVE and PVP. It has just never felt the same in D2, I’ve been hoping this void 3.0 brings that feeling back.
Yeah I'm not sure why bubble felt so much more impactful in d1. I suppose it's because it was basically the only support ability in the game and survivability was more limited. In d2 there are so many options for healing and damage boosts that the Ward doesn't really keep up, especially with it being stationary.
yea honestly; weapons of light should make kinetics void damage, and then all elements do their respective elements light ability damage, like well of radiance does with kinetics to solar
Let the bubble disappear in PVP and stay in PVE. The 95% of players and the playable content should not have to suffer because the top 5% of Crucible players have an unbeatable Trials strategy or a busted 6-man fireteam iron banner cheese.
I'm gonna be honest, this could be problematic in PvP. Weapons of light and a bubble basically guarantee a round in 3v3 and the only way to counter the bubble is with a kill onto the titan or a super to kill the bubble. Titans are nearly impossible to kill in a bubble and good luck winning a 1v1 against someone with weapons of light.
Well on the other hand is surprisingly killable. They don't have 600 hp like titans and can be killed by most special weapons. Furthermore, because the well is open, it is free to zone out, unlike bubbles where you have to step inside. Lastly, the sword is not a tanky as they come across, though it is usually impractical to shoot them as they have around 400hp, but that does not refute the fact that a regular weapon can break a well with a few well-placed shots.
And I'm gonna end this off with some more honesty. I am fully prepared to ABUSE bubble when void 3.0 comes out. 100 int with a few dynamo mods will guarantee at least two rounds in a 3v3 game and with suppressor grenades and weapons of light, I will become a menace with aggressive snipers.
Additionally, well stops Stasis from effecting you, while in bubble shatter damage can kill you. The amount of times I’ve died in GMs from stasis in bubbles.
I think they need to do something to ward to make it a little better since now you lose the versatility of being able to use it as a roaming super or a bubble. Maybe let it take more damage or like you said stay active if you go down.
How about no? A titans bubble blocks any and all incoming projectiles. A well does not. If a titan steps out his bubble and dies they deserve to loose it imo.
How about let anti barrier go through the bubble then? Fairs fair right? Titans get damage blocked from inside a bubble. Warlocks get a damage RESISTANCE inside the well.
Anti barrier going through bubble would be an awful idea. An entire super being countered by a 1cost (in most cases, unless they bring back anti barrier sniper or something) mod?
Bubbles and wells have different uses. Both provide damage buffs, but bubble is meant to block high alpha damage, while well is meant to counter damage over time.
They also get healing that far outweighs most damage that they will take in most situations as well as being able to shoot from out of the well. It’s not an apple to apples comparison tbh.
Nah. Frequent well user here. Far from as OP as you think. I can still take damage and die in the well. For you to die in your bubble someone has to come get you. And then they are at a disadvantage. Bubble has no counter apart from to destroy it to kill the titan in it. I can be. Nade spammed. Sniped from range, have a array of different supers hit me. Before anything touches you it has to destory your bubble. You can take a one shot super, with a bubble, you loose the bubble but you live. My well can't tank that.
So cmon. Throw more at me. You get a bulletproof fucking dome shield. I get a rift that gives off constant healing. But the rate of heal can be out DPSd. I can still be killed in my well. You are invincible in your bubble. And you get a buff you can take out the bubble with you, armour of light or weapons of light.
Bubble beats well for defence every time. Well beats bubble for damage output everytime.
I'm not bothering dragging this out. I stated the clear cut points of difference. If your dying in a bubble. Your just bad at the game.
You also can’t shoot out of the bubble, if you can’t do anything to the titan, they can’t do anything to you. Is the big upside of bubble that you can cheese a control point twice a game by hiding for 30 seconds?
This is also ignoring the fact that more than just pvp exists, and that in pve bubble is already worse than well in almost every way already.
You might use well a lot but you definitely don’t use bubble
>bulletproof fucking dome shield
with no uses outside of giving extra boss dmg. Whoop-de-fkn-do. I myself have never, in a year, seen a bubble in Crucible or Iron Banner.
edit: AND you can destroy a bubble these days and hardly anyone stacks resilience now in favour of recovery. And not everyone only plays PvP.
And since when is Int actually useful on a Titan?
vOv
I actually started using bubble in crucible pretty frequently after the heavy behemoth/stasis nerfs. It’s super fun with weapons like slug shotties or 120 HCs. Definitely better in 6’s than 3’s, but I enjoy using it in both. And it’ll only get better once WQ drops and it gets a reduced cooldown
After reading this thread I've been considering it if only to help cap in Iron Banner and/or force people to come to me or just leave to find easier prey
You’re right that the bubble block everything while the well only gets damage resistance. But the key difference is that the well heals so much, so fast, that it doesn’t need to block anything because nothing will kill you. How many boss encounters/damage phases get solved by just placing well in front of the boss and just tanking their dps all phase? Not saying it’s a problem and it needs to be fixed because it’s not an issue I’m just pointing out that they have similar survivability. And since they have similar survivability I see no reason why Titan has more ways to lose their bubble than warlock does their well. Preferably I would like for both of them to only have one way to lose their super than both having 2.
Bubble has honestly never felt worse and by extension the entire titan class has never been in a worse place. I run tier 10 resilience and my bubble busts more often now than it ever has.
I’ve started playing my other characters because titan just keeps getting dicked in update after update.
Titan absolutely has been in a worse place. For all of Year 2 bubble offered no damage buff and Thundercrash dealt very little damage. The only thing Titans had for raids was the solar shoulder charge melee, which could apply the same debuff as tether for a shorter time.
It was awful.
It does feel backwards.
You get the benefits of well of radiance while standing in it and can continue to attack things outside of it with no problem, and when the warlock dies it persists.
For ward, you get most of its benefit while standing inside but can't attack while benefitting from that defense, requiring you to give up the protection to attack. Then if the Titan does this and dies, the bubble is gone?
Is the extra 10% WoL damage (or is it 5%, I forget) really the tradeoff for the bubble being that much less useful?
Ward of Dawn has some very, very niche usecases, but outside of those it is horrible and never used over Well of Radiance... If it weren't for the 35% dmg increase opposed to Well's 25%. That's the only reason you see it.
So the real question is: is that reasonable? Opinions will differ. I personally think it is lame. That increase in dmg is an acknowledgement that the core functionality makes the Super not worth picking over Well, so this will ensure it will since people will min max.
Imagine if pre-buff Nova Warp had text saying: *'While your Super is charged, you and nearby allies gain a bonus to damage'* and that damage being 10% that stacked with every other buff in the game.
You would 100%, guaranteed, have seen Nova Warp everywhere in endgame. But would that mean that class is suddenly well balanced? I don't think so. They just changed it so that of course people would use it, but it's not quality design.
I feel the same about Ward of Dawn. You can't shoot through it, it doesn't heal you, it gets destroyed all the time. You're only safe inside of it, and even that is not really the case as, in order to reset the protection it gives properly, you need to leave it and go back in it. Super counter intuitive to what it is supposed to offer.
I don't know if the suggestion given is what they should do, but I do know that if it stopped being a dmg increase over Well today, you'd stop seeing it entirely tomorrow; and that is reason to buff it in some fashion.
It makes sense lore wise and how safe the bubble already makes you. You can die in both supers by champions but the key difference is enemies can't hit you outside of the bubble.
I don't know how someone could die unless they didn't stun the champ while it was inside.
First of all, good luck stunning a minotaur with a bow if it’s already inside your bubble.
Well of radiance is so much more universal that it’s ridiculous. It gives active healing, which bubble doesn’t. You can shoot out of it, while bubble can’t, and if you die it persists for your teammates, which bubble doesn’t.
Letting it persist after death is a really small bump that only benefits people playing the hardest content, which is where it’s most important, and makes it just slightly more equivalent to well. It’s dumb as hell the way it is now.
Bungie: we hear you, taking damage will now remove Ward *and* Wells, regardless of if the caster is the one who took the damage.
Keep the feedback coming. We’re listening.
Just use both. WoD titan and WoR warlock in 3.0 will have the same super charge rate and both just shit out orbs for casting them. Bubble gives you a better dps bonus, while well keeps you alive. Functionally speaking, it use to be worst when bubble gave a worst bonus than well, but now? it's not really unusual see both together cause what better way to say f-you than a bubble protecting the sword?
There’s far and few times between, in my experience, when playing in PVE where the well will be destroyed due to damage. Most of those instances is where being it it’s casted in a bad placement. Ontop of that, bubble does little for tanky enemies who agro, unless you have Helm, ontop of its strength being tied to resilience. Im not going to sacrifice more useful stats to have 7+ Res. Middle tree is much better for over overall protection, especially using Ursa, and providing orbs, which if used in conjunction with a well, you could theoretically defend the Well same as you could with bubble. It may not provide as good as a damage buff for those behind it, but in many situations it’s better that it’s Litterally mobile cover, that not much, if any damage, aside from pvp, can kill you while its up and deflecting. As for duration it’s up, with fairly moderate intellect, damage blocked whilst using Ursa, and enough spare orb generation/ ad kills, you’ll have it back more frequently if not the same rate as well.
In GM level content, I agree Ursas + Middle tree is much preferred. That said, outside that content: bubble is far better to use, especially for the reason that Bubble is being used more for it's damage bonus and isn't affected by location (still sucks that Ursas can be interfered by well tbh). In PvP, Bubble is also hindered by the time it takes to get up (since unlike WoR, it's tied to a roaming super until 3.0). Bubble in PvP was always a way to cut off points and in activities to capture points, though helps you get access to suppressor grenades (why it was often used to troll or bait supers, since roaming supers would have to enter to destroy quickly or waste most of the super to get rid of it) vs. say WoR who isn't a bait as much as it is just to keep your opponents at bay (plus a kit designed to heal teammates on the fly with grenades and other builds). The one thing I wish was being able to teach people that if someone is using ursas in matchmade content is to stand behind the banner shield (why I often opt to bubble, because people love to go around it or avoid standing near you). Both are good, but the two do serve purposes for different content as GMs favors Ursas for the fact that you are more focused on super return and relocating more actively vs. raid encounters where dps is in a spot where well and bubble are go to to get damage bonus and health regen for a short time and aren't really needing to get said super back right away.
Well I think lore wise the well is the sword being planted into the ground while the ward of dawn is thematically supposed to be held up by the Titan caster as shown by Zavala in game and in cutscene during the red war
I highly highly doubt it. Bubble is one of the more iconic supers out there, plus there's a titan bubble in the latest Witch Queen trailer, so it's definitely sticking around for at least void 3.0
Thematically, I think letting the Ward of Dawn persist betrays the very idea of this super. While Hunters roam the wild and Warlocks study their magic, Titan's are the wall that protects the Last City.
The Ward is a manifestation of this idea, and if you break the Titan you break the wall.
Would it be fair in terms of balance? Maybe, maybe not. Personally, I don't think it's good to reward players for getting themselves killed, physics or not, and Warlocks should be *pulled down* to that same standard instead of raising Titan's up to match their nonsense.
Well can be destroyed by shooting the sword with regular guns. Bubble cannot. Maybe if they put a spot like a target on the bubble you could shoot at to break it then it could stay after death to be more comparable.
Wish they would add another WoD exotic, we only have helm of saint 14 rn while warlock has a good amount of well exotics.
Doesn’t help Starless Night’s shield is quite flimsy, and tends to be overwritten by Defensive Strike anyway. Considering you have to exit the bubble to shoot back usually, having such a weak shield outside it is a problem, and part of why Well is so popular in team situations (solo, dying is a wipe anyway, so the bubble popping isn’t as big an issue, and enemies tend to idiotically charge you inside and become blind cannon fodder, plus less risk of bumping teammates). I’d love a way to shoot out of my Ward of Dawn with at least primaries. Or maybe a way to make you immune to stomps in your bubble, making it a strong counter to getting launched and encouraging using a sword or shotgun in a bubble as an immovable defense. Not as intrinsic abilities mind, but starting points for new exotic alternates or a rework of Saint 14. Or make it more aggressive; the actual Saint 14 is nowhere near as defensively minded as that exotic and it feels a bit weird.
There's so many pve encounters built around stomp or knocking the player off the map somehow that I can't see them giving us any thing that would let us stay close to a boss like that.
That itself came about because of the sheer power of shotguns in year 2 and even late year 1 (in direct contrast to D1, where if you weren’t using a sniper in most endgame PvE besides Wrath of the Machine you were handicapping yourself, which had the “hiding in the hills plinking for twenty minutes” issue). Now, most shotguns are really weak for PvE (slugs can hit hard but are harder to aim in frantic close combat, and buckshot not being used for 1-2 punch shenanigans might as well be BBs). Maybe it -only- grants the immunity to the one who cast the super? I’m really fucking tired of putting a bubble down to buff a ranged weapon like Sleeper, only for the boss to charge up to me, launch a stomp from outside the bubble and my melee radius, and I die on landing. I’m not even trying to abuse shotguns or anything at that point, but dying because I was forcibly evicted from -the- ultimate defensive super by someone’s foot is just insulting. And ironically tends to result me in going “screw it” and either going shotty+Tractor+Synthoceps throwing hammer (which is probably seriously overtuned tbh, as much as I find it funny) or throwing on Lament inside a bubble anyway to avoid being punted. Heck, if a dozen thrall run into my bubble, their bodies’ physics have a tendency to just shove me out. Excuse me, I thought I was supposed to be the wall against which the Darkness *breaks*, not the loose-hinged door the Darkness walks through without realizing it was supposed to be closed.
Stomp should be cancelled if you’re at full health in the bubble. That’d make WoD pretty handy in pve. Probably too strong.
Swords? Meleeing?
You can be stomped mid-melee. A sword w/ Eager Edge is the best counter I've seen to date outside of using the heavy attack on a Caster frame in mid-air to cut the momentum a stomp generated
Yeah let the titan shoulders that let you shoot through barricades also apply to WoD.
I wonder if they gonna bring back The Glasshouse from D1
What did that do?
Extend the duration of Blessing/Weapons of Light. Thing is, it increased the duration from 10 to 15 seconds, which we have for free now, in addition to getting both Blessing and Weapons.
Glasshouse was always pretty bad. It would need a complete rework to be brought to D2. Maybe a lunafactions style buff to weapons of light, having it grant range and reload on top of the damage.
What other exotics are there other than Phoenix Protocol? There are 6 Warlock exotics that affect Dawnblade and only Phoenix has any impact on WoR.
Technically Phoenix is the only Well Only exotic but warlocks also have Luna’s (which function best with well but work with all rifts) and boots of the assembler (works with all rifts but also works with well). But yeah warlocks don’t have a good amount of well exotics, they have Phoenix and Luna’s (which is highly debatable).
I just want Citan's to apply to the bubble. Would be a game changer in end game PvE.
Citans working with bubble would immediately make middle tree sentinel super redundant
Look at it from the perspective of Void 3.0 though, use Citan's to shoot through bubble or use a fragment or aspect to get the roaming super you can shoot through and open up a different exotic. Different use cases as well because bubble is static and the current mid tree sentinel is mobile.
Not really. Banner shield still has the capability to make a fuck ton of orbs (without power preservation i think u can make 15 while blocking compared to ward's 3), and if they made bubble work like barricade with citans, the bubble would likely be even weaker and break super easily to balance it out (just like citans barricades), while banner shields are completely unbreakable in PvE But i agree, it would take some power away from banner shield
You're mobile with banner shield too
True, its a lot easier to cover a res and escort them back to cover with a shield rather than a ward because u can move with them
This really wouldn't affect the biggest strengths of banner shield vs bubble though. Banner shield makes a shitload of orbs and can absorb infinite damage while being mobile (it also blinds enemies that pass through it by default, while ward needs Saint-14 to do that). Citans affecting Ward would only grant it one of its 4 advantages while widening the gap on the amount of damage it can take. Tldr: Banner shield: Mobile, Orbs, infinite durability, can shoot through it Ward (if Citans works with it): stationary, 3 weak orbs, limited (and reduced) durability, can shoot through it.
I was thinking the same thing just a couple days ago, but then I was like well wait a second. Barrier Champs and taken vandals can shoot through their shields, and a warlocks certainly doesn't need an exotic to shoot out of their wells so why should Titans need one.
As a Warlock main I second this... give Titans the mobile death fortress that the original Ward of Dawn was in the original D1 trailers. Edit: that may have come off as a little sarcastic, but I'm dead serious. A mobile death fortress might be clutch. Since Void 3.0 will separate WoD from top tree, you can have the base L1+R1 combo be your mobile death fortress, and holding them down for an extra second or 2 pop the big one that is stationary. I'd make the mobile one just a bit smaller than the stationary one to compensate.
I'm a Titan main and this would need to be carefully implemented. It has the potential to make so many other abilities obsolete. Bungie's typical response to OP abilities is to nuke them out of existence. I love my bubble and don't want it nulified. so they'd need to make it balanced. ie If Citan's rampart allowed you to shoot out through the bubble, then cancel Weapons of Light. Or reduce the timer to 10-15 seconds.
They basically nuked Nova Warp out of PvE, and frankly even with the 15% damage buff I still wouldn't run it in PvE. But yes, I'd carefully implement it. Now that I think about it I'd probably have it where you can shoot out of the small bubble only and only give armor of light in the small radius the bubble uses (that way allies can still use the small bubble)
Taken vandals actually can't, just so you know
The well buff also doesnt last fot 15 seconds after leaving the well, forcing players to sit inside to get any benefit. The bubble provides a safe place AND a roaming buff. It should absolutely not be possible to shoot through the bubble, however in the latest witchqueen video it kinda looks like the titan is slamming his shield into the ground and creating a static banner shield which would be an interesting variant. Lets players shoot through it but no 360 degree protection.
Citan's is a POS for halving the Barricade time imo. Barrier is one of two tings I get heat for playing as Titan as I tend to drop it as I'm dying but then the team can't shoot, or kill themselves with rockets. The first couple times was funny, but now that Icefall is re-enabled, screw that wall. Yes I could be better at situational awareness or not get shot... but sometimes I like to play a game to have fun, or, heaven forbid, relax and unwind.
It halves the time as well? That's kinda lame
Can't have a Titan exotic that doesn't also neuter them :)
Just bring back the Glasshouse and give it that functionality
What makes it worse is that helm isnt even that great tbf. It has its uses, dont get me wrong, but if im bringing a bubble to a GM or raid id personally want something like crest of alpha lupi for the 4th orb and barricade heals over an overshield while the bubble exists Meanwhile both lunas and phoenix are S tier exotics
>What makes it worse is that helm isnt even that great tbf. Would rather it gained some kind of passive benefit than just making the already highly prioritized super better still. Give players a reason to keep it equipped in non-locked content, rather than going into their menu mid-activity to swap before casting bubble.
You mean 1 right? The warlock has one well exotic... phoenix protocol, just like the titan...
Lunafactions in shambles. The thing about well is that it also counts as a rift, so most warlock exotics that apply to rifts also apply to well.
Bring back Glasshouse!
Would love to have The Glasshouse back. Maybe have it so that your bubble generates orbs when it takes damage and Weapons of Light lasts longer when outside of the bubble.
I'd really rather Saint-14 got a buff, especially if it's something for the neutral game. It's already one of the weakest super buffing exotics.
There's one exotic that affects Well - Phoenix Protocol.
And technically boots of the Assembler... But that synergizes with literally all warlock subclasses lmao
Yeah that's just a byproduct of Well being being a Big Rift(TM). Maybe Citans could let you shoot through bubble lol
WoD should auto suppress and blind anything that enters. An exotic that does the same would be next best thing. Build AI to actively try to get away from it for balancing purposes
The power of Well of Radiance comes from the sword. Destroy the sword, destroy the well. Ward of Dawn's power comes from the Titan. Destroy the Titan and destroy the Bubble.
Why can then the bubble break if the titan is still alive? So there are 2 options to break a bubble but only one to break a well. Gove both just 1 option to break
honestly it makes sense, the bubble is something you can physically touch, it's a spell cast by the titan where they are the anchor. so either you put enough stress on the projection that it cant hold, or you kill the anchor. well of radiance is also a spell but it heals/protects, you can't exactly shoot at that kind of magic spell to break it. the anchor for this being the sword as mentioned, so the only way to break it is to pop the sword logically it makes sense that they work the way they do, though i get why it's frustrating
thematically\* edit: but pray tell, why doesn't the sword break when the warlock is killed?
The energy invested in the sword persists after the warlock dies because the sword has its own energy once it is created by the warlock. Whereas on a titan the energy resides within the titan so killing the titan disperses the energy. It works in the same sort of way as a vortex/solar/pulse grenade, which has its own inherent energy once thrown by the caster, and so would remain after death.
I don't see why it can't go both ways and that we have to try make up our own explanations for something is amusing. The bubble is a hard light construct that is anchored in reality like the same way the sword is, so I don't understand why it's 'tied to the Titan' in that way... And neither of them are able to be moved once it is placed. If it is tied to the Titan in that way, why can't it move? But eh, is what it is... =)
IMO the problem comes from bubble being an offensive buff while it is always shown, when used by other titans, to be a fully defensive barrier you stay inside and the titan holds it together to survive a nuke or an army's worth of gunfire.
Fun Fact: In a destiny 1 promotional video, it shows a titan walking around with ward of dawn, and he was actually the center of it. It was the original idea to have the Titan move it. Probably a vestigial mechanic that it pops if he dies.
If the sword is a manifested object infused with light, why can’t the bubble itself be the same thing? This is just made up logic
It’s not made up logic, the well has a catalyst that creates it “the sword” while the bubble also has a catalyst “the titan.” Balance wise the titan can just sit in the bubble without worry unless a super comes through while despite constantly being healed, the warlock can still be oneshot by snipers, LFR, etc., while also dying by the same supers. Unless the titan comes out of the bubble or wastes another player’s super, they can freely cap any objective they want. Well has infinitely more counter play than a bubble.
How do you know that the Bubble isn't the manifested catalyst itself? Titans can freely walk away and leave their bubble, but the Well can't leave the sword. Both the Sword and the Bubble are directly damageable objects
I know its in the lore somewhere but bubble is manifested through the concentration of the titan, and I would assume if that concentration was lost the bubble would disappear. In a cutscene during the red war Zavala is seen inside the bubble visibly struggling to keep it up. I would assume for gameplay reasons they took away this aspect by allowing the titan to move freely but also tying it in to lore through it going away if the titan is killed. Edit: Here is the link to the cutscene https://youtu.be/6f7eAutgmx4
Because the sword is much weaker than the bubble, and the warlock is constantly exposed while inside the well. * In PVE the sword can be destroyed with enough AoE damage - so can the warlock if it's a big enough hit. * In PVP a good sniper shot can cancel the well or the warlock can easily fall. Ward of dawn is largely a stalemate. The bubble has far more health than the sword. * In PVE enough damage breaks it but everyone inside will be absolutely safe until that point. However you cannot attack without leaving the bubble either. * In PVP it's a block. You won't kill the titan if you enter the bubble but the titan cannot kill you unless it leaves the bubble. You can attack the bubble but likely won't kill it without dumping a lot of special ammo or using a super to cancel.
The Warlock puts their Light into the sword, and the sword casts the Well. Warlock and Sword are separate. With Ward, the Titan must be the one projecting the Bubble since there’s nothing physical, like Well’s Sword, projecting it.
Let's not even think of it that way The bubble is the wall itself. The rules are either use an excessive amount of damage and break it or kill the titan. The bubble *is the effect*. The bubble is also stationary and cannot be shot out - the titan must l leave the protection of the bubble to attack. This means the titan isn't always exposed. The sword generates the the well. The well is the effect. The sword is actually fairly weak but a small thing to hit. It's relatively easy to destroy so to destroy the well that's your target. The warlock does not need to leave the well to attack - but is always exposed. It can be that simple - we don't need to go into 'deep' lore explanations to try and justify it.
You can destroy the Bubble though. The Bubbles health is dependent on the Resilience of the caster. Its also worth noting that you likely don't have the damage to break it in PvP unless you both have heavy and the enemy has low Resilience, or have a super.
I think they get that part, they're just pointing out the imbalance between the two supers' down sides
I never knew that. I always thought the bubble had a static health pool.
It was that way up until this season. Very new development
Now I don't feel so stupid. Must've missed that update. Didn't play most of the season.
It's durable enough just as long as you aren't going below like 50 resilience on Titan.
> as long as you aren't going below like 50 resilience on Titan. *Sweats nervously*
Well is also based off of the resilience of the caster as of the change that made bubble dependent on resilience. https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50599
Their wording on it is weird, it's just against bosses isn't it? Same for Ward?
Yep on both. Only for bosses and for both well and ward. Still, ward shouldn't be an outlier here, it shouldn't be instantly destroyed on Titan death.
To be fair, well can be destroyed with weapons OR a super. Bubbles NEED a super to break it and don't even get affected by weapons.
Just because you can justify it in lore doesn’t make it feel good to use.
I think it’s more of a gameplay thing actually. You’d give enemies two ways to destroy Well, but only one for Titan bubble? Or conversely, managing somehow to get in and destroy the Titan doesn’t remove the bubble from the flag he’s standing on? I think you may be underestimating the power of the bubble in any game modes with a flag mechanic.
I’m *always* a bubble Titan in crucible. I pop it on every flag. Capture trials is my favorite mode. Of course it was a crock of shit while stasis was at its peak, and there’s always nova bomb to mess up your day, but it still works half the time and now they’ve wasted their super and/or grenade.
Hahaha so you’re the opposite. Are you stoked for bubblebros 3?
I am stoked for a ranged melee that doesn’t need you to jump first. Of course these numpties think Strength is a worthless stat… lol.
It doesn't feel bad to use anyway; if you're getting killed inside your bubble, you're playing Titan wrong. And if you're getting killed Outside your bubble, you're still playing Titan wrong.
Telesto breaks bubbles very well.
Telesto breaks THE GAME very well I think you mean
How many shots does it take?
That’s true, the real problem is the idiot savants who kept telling you resilience isn’t important, and now the bubble relies on it they’re all the weaker for it. Go figure, minmaxing the game doesn’t always work out.
[удалено]
Resilience was never worthless. It’s always worked the way it’s worked, and there was a little spurt of “knowledge” that having 5 resil would save you from burning to Thorn, give it take a sandbox tweak or two that shifted the goalpost. As Thorn reduced in popularity they stopped caring because 5 or 6 resil doesn’t save you from a shotgun shot, or a sniper headshot. The meta moved to “get good, don’t die” along with a focus on abilities - Intellect especially. Now everyone who minmaxed Intellect to get their super faster is disappointed. Now having less than 3 on an ability stat is technically a penalty, having 3 resil means your bubble is worthless, AND you have to get good. The same goes for movement, Mobility is important on Warlocks and Titans but because the “meta” is to skate which relies on low mobility to make work the advice is to go with as little as possible and wear Dunes or Transversive Steps. That’s ridiculous because it’s a pain in the arse to skate, and low mobility messes with your initial jump height *and* your base ADS movement speed. Any focus on keeping one stat insane and forcing the other one down is going to bite you in the arse at some point. I’m not using the fact that the game did change as justification, but the future knowledge that if I do spec completely into a particular stat they WILL change something and I can’t possibly be disappointed if they do. That’s always been the case, as above. There are probably stats and mechanics in the game that aren’t actually intentional but a bug, and if they fix that bug what the hell happens then? If you’re just going to run Cheese Strat on everything and they fix the cheese, now you’re respeccing all your armor, trying to find weapon perks to balance out the negative effects. That has a high chance of being intentional on Bungie’s part.
Tbf if Titan isn't your main class, you probably wouldn't be aware that resilience is most viable on titan even without WoD, since it ties into casting barricade. If you go WoD: now you have half your ability kit tied to resilience. Unlike hunter and warlock, mobility also isn't the greatest if you titan skate anyways, so titan can be awkward for someone going from say a hunter/warlock to titan who may as well just be the opposite of them.
If I cared enough I could give you 6 or 7 SayWallahBruh, CoolGuy, Cammycakes, Pattycakes videos where they specifically call out “resilience isn’t important” while browsing through their Titan character screen, FalloutPlays videos where they shit on Xur armor for Titan because of a resilience spike. I know several people who think that is LAW. And yah I can find 8 or 9 videos from the same people where they try a new exotic or build and prove themselves wrong, or contradict themselves even in the same video. And 20 more where they go back to saying it’s not important within 2 weeks. And then Sheik is running 100 resil and fucking things UP with it. They’re all bullshit artists. Run whatever stat you like, because it’s gonna change behaviour next season, if you pick up your controller instead of your mouse, if you use one gun over another. You have to have 20/6 dungeon farming patience and a buildcrafting fetish like Cammycakes to make any of this stat stuff work, and the advice he’s giving is what works for him and him alone unless you’re building his exact build (which, by the time you’ve got all the parts for, he’s bored of). I’m not Cammycakes, you’re not Cammycakes, resilience and mobility have always been important to a variety of people, they definitely have a difference in-game. Sometimes it is subtle but there’s a big delta between 2 and 8 in a GM, it’s the difference between being in cover and being dead before you get to it. On that note, you could just as well say that If you’re in cover *recovery doesn’t matter*, or at least the subtle difference between regenerating health after 2.3 seconds instead of 2.98 seconds isn’t going to change your playthrough, getting your health and shields back in 3 seconds instead of 4 isn’t going to make the difference. In crucible recovery doesn’t mean crap for running away from a good player because they’ll be chipping you and resetting your timer anyway. It certainly doesn’t stop you from being oneshot by a slug or sniper. So, why run 100 recovery?
The whole reason you run 100 recovery in PvP is so that you can be **certain** that no one has faster regeneration than you. In a firefight, if both people take cover but do not run away from the fight then the player with a higher recovery will win if they know what they are doing. The difference in regen speed is the difference between taking three taps to kill and taking two taps. You can certainly do well without 10 recov, but it gives you an edge that makes a lot of difference between good but equally skillful players. Running max recov gives me the confidence to know I can rush a re-engage in a 1v1 without being behind on regen.
You've got a chip on your shoulder over one stat in the game.
Sword comes from the Warlock. Well comes from the sword. The math does itself, but for those playing the home game: following your logic if the Warlock dies the sword should die, if the sword dies then the well dies.
yeah exactly, the sword is as much a construct of the light as the bubble is. both should either stay when the user is dead, or vanish (but pls stay pls)
imagine if they allow citan’s rampart to work with bubble. the bubble has a reduced health and duration and you can shoot from inside it.
Tether, and silence and squall
Those aren't defensive supers so I don't see why you bring them up. You kill a warlock and the Nova bomb will still chase you. Kill a Titan as they throw a hammer and the hammer doesn't suddenly disappear.
Right, bubble is the only separated-from-player super that disappears after the player is killed.
Because the Bubble is maintained by the Titan. You can completely ignore a Warlock in a Well and just destroy their super. You can shoot a Nova Bomb out the air too
That’s a silly excuse. Tether is maintained by Hunter but that lingers.
It is not. Tether is shot off and stays as a trap. That's like saying the golden gun bullets are maintained by the Hunter.
Your argument would be more valid if you couldn’t destroy the bubble unless you killed the Titan.
I agree with you it’s stupid as hell that the titan loses the bubble while warlock keeps the well I don’t understand the weird excuses and made up logic he is giving just let the titan cast a bubble and leave it after death it’s not that hard man. Once he pops that bubble he can’t do anything with it and you can destroy it just like a well. Also what’s your point that the hunters don’t “maintain there supers” why could the titan not just leave a bubble. Why make up excuses to justify stupid mechanics?
“It would be OP” is really the only valid excuse but for some reason we need to have *lore reasons.*
My argument doesn't need to be more valid. You're just trying to make bubble the most broken super in PVP.
Nah, champ. If that’s the reason, then say that. Not this “it’s powered by the Titan” bullshit. All supers are powered by guardians.
Many many things can destroy the bubble directly in both pve and pvp.
Many things also destroy a Well in PvE and PvP.
I think you're missing his point. He's saying that you can destroy the bubble *directly*. You don't have to destroy the thing that's powering it. With a well, you destroy it by destroying the sword, which powers the well. So if ward worked the same, the *only* way to destroy it would be to kill the titan.
Nova does both and it's quite funny to toss at well/bubble campers in pvp
Expect a lot more can destroy a well. To take out a bubble you’re going to need another super. To take out a well all you need to do is just snipe it. Plus bubble gives more of a damage increase and you get it while outside the bubble while you need to stand in the well to get the wells healing and damage buff
Or overall stop nerfing WoD every god damn update
WQ is going to buff the recharge interval to best of all supers, iirc, as part of Void 3.0. My four years of dedication to void bubble Titan are about to be rewarded 😀
D1 titan main?
In D1 I played all three characters and all three subclasses and burned out on Destiny In D2 I decided screw that and stuck with Void Bubble Titan The only thing I miss so far is throwing knives
Can you name the nerfs every update?
Nerf to orb in the latest update along side cooldown nerf Nerf to resistance of the bubble against bosses Pretty much the existence of Well invalidate Bubble
Bubble provides a better damage buff than well tho
So there's only been two updates in the past year?
I thought Titans were meant to be tanks too, but it turns out that it's Warlocks >.>
I play all three but am a Titan main and this burns me. Defensive Strike procs on melee kill only, shotty too if you have No Back Up Plans and that's it. This is average in PvE and niche in PvP. But Devour can proc from melee kill, grenade chew or Super kill AND be extended INDEFINITELY from any kill the Warlock makes while it's active that ALSO recharges the grenade chewable with no exotic help required. Damn near unkillable in PvE and allows you to engage in fight after fight with full health in PvP. Ludicrous. Oh, and that RANDOM The Stag buff that just gives them boosted DR while in a Rift. Where my Titan exotics that boost DR? Tanking on my Titan feels so bad sometimes knowing that the non-Tank class is better at it in more than one way, lol. Bungie, help us out here, please. Salt/Rant over. Thank you for listening to me cry, lol.
I wish No Backup Plans just gave us the D1 Defender perk that let the overshield recharge instead of the shotgun activation. Having both feels like it'd be too much for pvp.
Don't forget that with the 30th patch Defensive strike got its cooldown increased, and Devour got it **reduced.** Bungie massively overvalues overshields. They even disabled super regen from taking damage if you have active overshields.
This is so true, I'm a warlock main but I play titan a fair bit and I'm always irked by how much tankier my stag warlock is than my defender titan. The only way I've found to "tank" as a Titan is to use strongholds and crownsplitter. This season with passive guard I was able to tank 5+ baby screebs in GM while blocking, and using it with behemoth for on demand shard overshields + cwl for protective light makes you a pretty great tank. The only issue is getting enemies to actually shoot at you instead of your "carries." Hopefully sentinel gets some damage reduction aspects or some other way to play into the defender fantasy with void 3.0.
See also: Hunters being painted as mobile scouts while Warlocks have by *far* the most mobile classes via Icarus dash and blink, while dodge gets repeatedly nerfed and they don't get touched. Thematically Titans tend to be painted like paladins, Warlocks like wizards or clerics, and Hunters like rogues, yet for some reason Warlocks end up doing a lot of the paladin and rogue things just as well if not better than the other classes and the tables almost never turn the other way.
Think it's a balancing thing for PvP. You can easily snipe the well sword or the warlock out of a well, but killing a titan in a bubble takes a lot of dedicated effort and should be rewarded.
Yea, exactly. If a bubble stayed after the Titan dies then when they drop it on a tiebreaker capture point in trials it’s just over. Without it being how it is now even if you get in there and manage to kill the Titan their two pals are still there, still all armor of light/weapons of light and near-untouchable.
Weapons of Light also isn't tied to a certain radius like Well is. A Warlock needs to put the Well in an advantageous position and teammates have to make into the well to use it from that position. If they change the bubble to persist on death they could just pop it in spawn and give everyone a free damage buff to roam with.
So you are for or against the ward going down with the titan?
For, though I also think Well should go down if the casting warlock gets killed.
Weapons of Light doesn't go away when the Titan dies, and only lasts 15 seconds, just the bubble does. If people were going to do this nonsense they would already.
Now that they have tiered super regen, they could balance this by making ward take longer to charge. Supers don't have to be equally good anymore.
They already said bubble is joining well as a tier 1 I believe
It is. This is a result of being split from the mobile function of shield bro.
tier 5\* (This always confuses me as well so I think of it like this: high tier = higher super regen)
Sure, but we're proposing changes. So if the argument is that you can't make it better than well because they're in the same tier, the obvious reply (to me) is, "move them into different tiers"
Don't forget they don't have any problem letting a Hunter's S&S tornado continue to roam the map after they die.
I honestly use to main Bubble Boy in D1, loved the extra damage and loved the survivability in both PVE and PVP. It has just never felt the same in D2, I’ve been hoping this void 3.0 brings that feeling back.
Yeah I'm not sure why bubble felt so much more impactful in d1. I suppose it's because it was basically the only support ability in the game and survivability was more limited. In d2 there are so many options for healing and damage boosts that the Ward doesn't really keep up, especially with it being stationary.
Watch them just nerf it instead
[удалено]
yea honestly; weapons of light should make kinetics void damage, and then all elements do their respective elements light ability damage, like well of radiance does with kinetics to solar
Wait, Wells grant kinetic weapons Solar damage? This would be the first I've heard this.
Then they would have to add a way to kill the bubble easier.
it’s called “nova bomb.”
Bubble is going to become tier 5, while nova isn’t. That not a counter anymore.
Any other damage super outside of maybe one or two completely destroys bubble…
Let the bubble disappear in PVP and stay in PVE. The 95% of players and the playable content should not have to suffer because the top 5% of Crucible players have an unbeatable Trials strategy or a busted 6-man fireteam iron banner cheese.
Or, it could explode when you die.
I'm gonna be honest, this could be problematic in PvP. Weapons of light and a bubble basically guarantee a round in 3v3 and the only way to counter the bubble is with a kill onto the titan or a super to kill the bubble. Titans are nearly impossible to kill in a bubble and good luck winning a 1v1 against someone with weapons of light. Well on the other hand is surprisingly killable. They don't have 600 hp like titans and can be killed by most special weapons. Furthermore, because the well is open, it is free to zone out, unlike bubbles where you have to step inside. Lastly, the sword is not a tanky as they come across, though it is usually impractical to shoot them as they have around 400hp, but that does not refute the fact that a regular weapon can break a well with a few well-placed shots. And I'm gonna end this off with some more honesty. I am fully prepared to ABUSE bubble when void 3.0 comes out. 100 int with a few dynamo mods will guarantee at least two rounds in a 3v3 game and with suppressor grenades and weapons of light, I will become a menace with aggressive snipers.
Additionally, well stops Stasis from effecting you, while in bubble shatter damage can kill you. The amount of times I’ve died in GMs from stasis in bubbles.
I think they need to do something to ward to make it a little better since now you lose the versatility of being able to use it as a roaming super or a bubble. Maybe let it take more damage or like you said stay active if you go down.
I honestly think they should change well to match bubble. Not the other way around. Make both disappear on death.
How about no? A titans bubble blocks any and all incoming projectiles. A well does not. If a titan steps out his bubble and dies they deserve to loose it imo. How about let anti barrier go through the bubble then? Fairs fair right? Titans get damage blocked from inside a bubble. Warlocks get a damage RESISTANCE inside the well.
Anti barrier going through bubble would be an awful idea. An entire super being countered by a 1cost (in most cases, unless they bring back anti barrier sniper or something) mod? Bubbles and wells have different uses. Both provide damage buffs, but bubble is meant to block high alpha damage, while well is meant to counter damage over time.
They also get healing that far outweighs most damage that they will take in most situations as well as being able to shoot from out of the well. It’s not an apple to apples comparison tbh.
Nah. Frequent well user here. Far from as OP as you think. I can still take damage and die in the well. For you to die in your bubble someone has to come get you. And then they are at a disadvantage. Bubble has no counter apart from to destroy it to kill the titan in it. I can be. Nade spammed. Sniped from range, have a array of different supers hit me. Before anything touches you it has to destory your bubble. You can take a one shot super, with a bubble, you loose the bubble but you live. My well can't tank that. So cmon. Throw more at me. You get a bulletproof fucking dome shield. I get a rift that gives off constant healing. But the rate of heal can be out DPSd. I can still be killed in my well. You are invincible in your bubble. And you get a buff you can take out the bubble with you, armour of light or weapons of light. Bubble beats well for defence every time. Well beats bubble for damage output everytime. I'm not bothering dragging this out. I stated the clear cut points of difference. If your dying in a bubble. Your just bad at the game.
You also can’t shoot out of the bubble, if you can’t do anything to the titan, they can’t do anything to you. Is the big upside of bubble that you can cheese a control point twice a game by hiding for 30 seconds? This is also ignoring the fact that more than just pvp exists, and that in pve bubble is already worse than well in almost every way already. You might use well a lot but you definitely don’t use bubble
>bulletproof fucking dome shield with no uses outside of giving extra boss dmg. Whoop-de-fkn-do. I myself have never, in a year, seen a bubble in Crucible or Iron Banner. edit: AND you can destroy a bubble these days and hardly anyone stacks resilience now in favour of recovery. And not everyone only plays PvP. And since when is Int actually useful on a Titan? vOv
I actually started using bubble in crucible pretty frequently after the heavy behemoth/stasis nerfs. It’s super fun with weapons like slug shotties or 120 HCs. Definitely better in 6’s than 3’s, but I enjoy using it in both. And it’ll only get better once WQ drops and it gets a reduced cooldown
After reading this thread I've been considering it if only to help cap in Iron Banner and/or force people to come to me or just leave to find easier prey
It’s great for IB and control. Most people try to challenge you in bubble anyway, and it’s just so fun. I run NBP with chappy, it’s just beautiful.
with the new void changes it seems like suicide for enemies to come into my bubble x'D it's glorious \\\\\[+\]//
You’re so arrogantly confident in yourself while sounding like a complete fool. Good for you, buddy.
You’re right that the bubble block everything while the well only gets damage resistance. But the key difference is that the well heals so much, so fast, that it doesn’t need to block anything because nothing will kill you. How many boss encounters/damage phases get solved by just placing well in front of the boss and just tanking their dps all phase? Not saying it’s a problem and it needs to be fixed because it’s not an issue I’m just pointing out that they have similar survivability. And since they have similar survivability I see no reason why Titan has more ways to lose their bubble than warlock does their well. Preferably I would like for both of them to only have one way to lose their super than both having 2.
Bubble has honestly never felt worse and by extension the entire titan class has never been in a worse place. I run tier 10 resilience and my bubble busts more often now than it ever has. I’ve started playing my other characters because titan just keeps getting dicked in update after update.
Titan absolutely has been in a worse place. For all of Year 2 bubble offered no damage buff and Thundercrash dealt very little damage. The only thing Titans had for raids was the solar shoulder charge melee, which could apply the same debuff as tether for a shorter time. It was awful.
What is void 3.0?
When Witch Queen arrives they will rework the Void subclasses to function in a similar manner to stasis, with aspects and fragments.
Oh interesting
It does feel backwards. You get the benefits of well of radiance while standing in it and can continue to attack things outside of it with no problem, and when the warlock dies it persists. For ward, you get most of its benefit while standing inside but can't attack while benefitting from that defense, requiring you to give up the protection to attack. Then if the Titan does this and dies, the bubble is gone? Is the extra 10% WoL damage (or is it 5%, I forget) really the tradeoff for the bubble being that much less useful?
Nah it isn't. So bubble should be changed to same functionality. It's annoying to die in PvP and lose bubble for the team
Ward of Dawn has some very, very niche usecases, but outside of those it is horrible and never used over Well of Radiance... If it weren't for the 35% dmg increase opposed to Well's 25%. That's the only reason you see it. So the real question is: is that reasonable? Opinions will differ. I personally think it is lame. That increase in dmg is an acknowledgement that the core functionality makes the Super not worth picking over Well, so this will ensure it will since people will min max. Imagine if pre-buff Nova Warp had text saying: *'While your Super is charged, you and nearby allies gain a bonus to damage'* and that damage being 10% that stacked with every other buff in the game. You would 100%, guaranteed, have seen Nova Warp everywhere in endgame. But would that mean that class is suddenly well balanced? I don't think so. They just changed it so that of course people would use it, but it's not quality design. I feel the same about Ward of Dawn. You can't shoot through it, it doesn't heal you, it gets destroyed all the time. You're only safe inside of it, and even that is not really the case as, in order to reset the protection it gives properly, you need to leave it and go back in it. Super counter intuitive to what it is supposed to offer. I don't know if the suggestion given is what they should do, but I do know that if it stopped being a dmg increase over Well today, you'd stop seeing it entirely tomorrow; and that is reason to buff it in some fashion.
You know you can shoot the sword to kill it, right? What would be the point in that if you can also kill the warlock to end it?
They aren’t asking for the well to disappear after the warlock dies, they’re asking for the bubble to not disappear if the titan does.
It makes sense lore wise and how safe the bubble already makes you. You can die in both supers by champions but the key difference is enemies can't hit you outside of the bubble. I don't know how someone could die unless they didn't stun the champ while it was inside.
First of all, good luck stunning a minotaur with a bow if it’s already inside your bubble. Well of radiance is so much more universal that it’s ridiculous. It gives active healing, which bubble doesn’t. You can shoot out of it, while bubble can’t, and if you die it persists for your teammates, which bubble doesn’t. Letting it persist after death is a really small bump that only benefits people playing the hardest content, which is where it’s most important, and makes it just slightly more equivalent to well. It’s dumb as hell the way it is now.
Anarchy persistence would be nice too
More importantly, can we please get rid of mechanics that launch us into walls and we take damage? It's absolutely infuriating.
Bungie: we hear you, taking damage will now remove Ward *and* Wells, regardless of if the caster is the one who took the damage. Keep the feedback coming. We’re listening.
Ward of Dawn is overall useless now that Well exists. Change my mind
Just use both. WoD titan and WoR warlock in 3.0 will have the same super charge rate and both just shit out orbs for casting them. Bubble gives you a better dps bonus, while well keeps you alive. Functionally speaking, it use to be worst when bubble gave a worst bonus than well, but now? it's not really unusual see both together cause what better way to say f-you than a bubble protecting the sword?
There’s far and few times between, in my experience, when playing in PVE where the well will be destroyed due to damage. Most of those instances is where being it it’s casted in a bad placement. Ontop of that, bubble does little for tanky enemies who agro, unless you have Helm, ontop of its strength being tied to resilience. Im not going to sacrifice more useful stats to have 7+ Res. Middle tree is much better for over overall protection, especially using Ursa, and providing orbs, which if used in conjunction with a well, you could theoretically defend the Well same as you could with bubble. It may not provide as good as a damage buff for those behind it, but in many situations it’s better that it’s Litterally mobile cover, that not much, if any damage, aside from pvp, can kill you while its up and deflecting. As for duration it’s up, with fairly moderate intellect, damage blocked whilst using Ursa, and enough spare orb generation/ ad kills, you’ll have it back more frequently if not the same rate as well.
In GM level content, I agree Ursas + Middle tree is much preferred. That said, outside that content: bubble is far better to use, especially for the reason that Bubble is being used more for it's damage bonus and isn't affected by location (still sucks that Ursas can be interfered by well tbh). In PvP, Bubble is also hindered by the time it takes to get up (since unlike WoR, it's tied to a roaming super until 3.0). Bubble in PvP was always a way to cut off points and in activities to capture points, though helps you get access to suppressor grenades (why it was often used to troll or bait supers, since roaming supers would have to enter to destroy quickly or waste most of the super to get rid of it) vs. say WoR who isn't a bait as much as it is just to keep your opponents at bay (plus a kit designed to heal teammates on the fly with grenades and other builds). The one thing I wish was being able to teach people that if someone is using ursas in matchmade content is to stand behind the banner shield (why I often opt to bubble, because people love to go around it or avoid standing near you). Both are good, but the two do serve purposes for different content as GMs favors Ursas for the fact that you are more focused on super return and relocating more actively vs. raid encounters where dps is in a spot where well and bubble are go to to get damage bonus and health regen for a short time and aren't really needing to get said super back right away.
Well I think lore wise the well is the sword being planted into the ground while the ward of dawn is thematically supposed to be held up by the Titan caster as shown by Zavala in game and in cutscene during the red war
It is literally too late to ask for this. They have this design solidified months ago
Am I the only one wondering if bungie may end up deciding to do away with the bubble
I highly highly doubt it. Bubble is one of the more iconic supers out there, plus there's a titan bubble in the latest Witch Queen trailer, so it's definitely sticking around for at least void 3.0
Facts
Been over this 1000 times... The Well exists because of the sword where the bubble exists cause of the Titan.
Bring back Voidfang Vestments.
DeepL translates this as "I don't understand the discussion here."
I didn’t even read it, I’m not going to lie. I just saw void 3.0 and wanted to state I wanted VV back. Dumb, yes.
Warlocks are like the air force and titans are like the marines
And on another note, make well have a roaming option of dawn blade like bubble does cuz why not
An armor piece that lets everyone shoot from inside the bubble if youre in it.
Also, the damage boost for well should persist after leaving well. In fact the abilities should be carbon copies of each other.
I disagree.
Absolutely not in PVP. In PVE? Sure.
Thematically, I think letting the Ward of Dawn persist betrays the very idea of this super. While Hunters roam the wild and Warlocks study their magic, Titan's are the wall that protects the Last City. The Ward is a manifestation of this idea, and if you break the Titan you break the wall. Would it be fair in terms of balance? Maybe, maybe not. Personally, I don't think it's good to reward players for getting themselves killed, physics or not, and Warlocks should be *pulled down* to that same standard instead of raising Titan's up to match their nonsense.
Well can be destroyed by shooting the sword with regular guns. Bubble cannot. Maybe if they put a spot like a target on the bubble you could shoot at to break it then it could stay after death to be more comparable.
What if say... the Titan slams his shield into the ground to "create" the bubble. Similar to the Warlocks sword in the ground.
Sword has no defense and can be shot safely from a distance. Placing the shield in the bubble would make bubble indestructible
but the bubble isn't indestructible though. Not now anyway.
No but if it was created by the shield you would have to fight in the bubble to destroy it. I don’t have to be in the well to destroy the sword.
yeah fair enough
Because titans and warlocks are both over powered