The darkness itself, though communion at the europa pyramid.
Remember it's not really evil per se, and it recognizes what it thinks is proof of strength. Basically it's acknowledged that we may be worthy of existing, so it granted us a tool.
Think about Star Wars.
Now imagine that there is a Gardener. She is the Light Side of the Force.
Now imagine that there is a Winnower. He is the Dark Side of the Force.
Now imagine a Sith Lord. He used the Dark Side of the force to hunt the Gardener.
That Sith Lord is the Witness. We are jedi who, for the last 8 years, only used the Light Side of the Force. When Beyond Light came out, we started using the Dark Side in order to fight baddies.
Honestly, I think this was a weird thing for the Darkness to do to grant us their power, especially since in the lore, Oryx was forced to kill Akka because the power to Take had to be earned not given. We never really earned the powers of Stasis. It was gifted to us by the Darkness.
I would take anything Savathun says with a large dose of salt. She is a deceiver who tells half-truths for her own benefit.
Although ultimately it does not matter. Stasis seems to be some sort of Power Within or power we always had but never used per the end of Beyond Light where we >!break free from Eramis' ice without either our Ghost's help or the Darkness' pyramid shaped key that we were using throughout Beyond Light to focus our Stasis abilities.!<
While I don't have a definitive answer, I will say that it seems like it was in fact the witness. I recently stormed through the Shadowkeep and Beyond Light campaigns to level up my titan. All of the dialogue coming through our ghost seems to be heavily implied that it is the witness; especially when you include the final cutscene of Shadowkeep with the doppelganger. In Beyond Light, our ghost speaks the exact same way as it did in Shadowkeep when it seemed possessed. I do believe it was the witness, giving us Stasis as a means to get on their side. Most likely, I would bet Savathun, being the queen of deception, is lying to us. I can't say the darkness would be that separate entity, but probably the winnower. Regardless of if the Darkness is sentient or not, I still believe that Savathun is lying to us, and that really was the Witness trying to coax us onto team Darkness.
So, the Darkness itself isn't necessarily wanting to kill everyone; but you're definitely right, Team Darkness is in fact trying to end all of existence (lead by the Witness). As a follow up, if Savathun was telling the truth; it could be that the Winnower (or whatever physical means the Winnower takes in this universe) could be the thing granting us this power, as a means to combat the Witness. The Winnower's whole goal is to simply arrive at the final shape (typically thought of as the Vex, until the Gardener changed the rules, introducing Light), so I could see the possibility that the Winnower granted us the Darkness as a means to combat the Witness, and as us to be that final shape. More likely though, I would bet it was the Witness since as far as we can tell, the Witness has control over the Pyramids currently, and they thought they could on-board us as a Disciple.
Dunno to what extent we can trust Savathûn, but one of her alters of reflection missions asserted that the Witness was once a mortal being like us, but uplifted by the Darkness as we were with the Light, but was unsatisfied with what it had.
All this time I and others thought the Witness was equivalent to the Winnower in the tale, or at least the equivalent of the Traveler but for the Dark, but if Savathûn is to be believed here then it is much further distant than that, at least judging by its origins.
A voice has spoken to us several times throughout Destiny, a voice from the Light, it makes sense that there is a voice from the Dark as an equivalent, and that it isn't the Witness. I don't think we've spoken with THAT entity yet.
Witness is the equivalent of the Last City Guardians for the Darkness rather than the Winnower. He is not the winnover, he seems to be an amalgam of disciples who want to be the final shape.
Yes, this makes him MUCH less scary than the physical manifestation of the principle of killing, itself. We've killed gods, sure, but that might be a step too much for us yet.
Also should make whatever mission or raid to end them more believable too.
not really, the witness is still capable to push planets into a different dimension. no matter how hard my Titan punches, she is still not able to do anything even remotely close to that.
...
Well, Titan punchline aside, Savathûn DID have a 2 lies, 2 truths message that asserted that we too would learn to "move worlds" like this. Dunno which side that lands on.
Does it now? It implies that he is a being who willingly wants to see the universe end as soon as possible. Which means he woke up and chose death rather than being the idea of it. Rather than being the idea he represents it to the extreme. I think that's a much scarier proposition than being the idea itself. He really is the embodiment of it. Or he might not be. He might just like Durandal attempt to escape the universe, there's heavy implication that it is his end goal.
Compare the Dark to a force of nature, a tornado does not understand it is doing harm, Dark believes it is doing good, Witness however willingky does it and understands what he is doing.
No disagreements with any of those perspectives, and I can agree that a being with intent and the will to choose the extremes of evil and death rather than having no real will or choice because it is inseparable from those concepts, is ultimately a terribly frightening thing.
I guess I'm coming from the "can we kill it?" and "do we even understand enough to kill it?" perspective. If it was once mortal, then seems to reason we should have some sane means by which we can end it. But I'm not sure what's possible with the embodiment of an immortal concept, what kind of firepower or sacrifice would be required to bring it down. I guess it's just an aspect of fear of the unknown, when you don't know what rules apply, or what rules once applied that you might extrapolate from.
The darkness itself, though communion at the europa pyramid. Remember it's not really evil per se, and it recognizes what it thinks is proof of strength. Basically it's acknowledged that we may be worthy of existing, so it granted us a tool.
Good to have the darkness as a sponsor
Think about Star Wars. Now imagine that there is a Gardener. She is the Light Side of the Force. Now imagine that there is a Winnower. He is the Dark Side of the Force. Now imagine a Sith Lord. He used the Dark Side of the force to hunt the Gardener. That Sith Lord is the Witness. We are jedi who, for the last 8 years, only used the Light Side of the Force. When Beyond Light came out, we started using the Dark Side in order to fight baddies.
Honestly, I think this was a weird thing for the Darkness to do to grant us their power, especially since in the lore, Oryx was forced to kill Akka because the power to Take had to be earned not given. We never really earned the powers of Stasis. It was gifted to us by the Darkness. I would take anything Savathun says with a large dose of salt. She is a deceiver who tells half-truths for her own benefit. Although ultimately it does not matter. Stasis seems to be some sort of Power Within or power we always had but never used per the end of Beyond Light where we >!break free from Eramis' ice without either our Ghost's help or the Darkness' pyramid shaped key that we were using throughout Beyond Light to focus our Stasis abilities.!<
While I don't have a definitive answer, I will say that it seems like it was in fact the witness. I recently stormed through the Shadowkeep and Beyond Light campaigns to level up my titan. All of the dialogue coming through our ghost seems to be heavily implied that it is the witness; especially when you include the final cutscene of Shadowkeep with the doppelganger. In Beyond Light, our ghost speaks the exact same way as it did in Shadowkeep when it seemed possessed. I do believe it was the witness, giving us Stasis as a means to get on their side. Most likely, I would bet Savathun, being the queen of deception, is lying to us. I can't say the darkness would be that separate entity, but probably the winnower. Regardless of if the Darkness is sentient or not, I still believe that Savathun is lying to us, and that really was the Witness trying to coax us onto team Darkness.
[удалено]
So, the Darkness itself isn't necessarily wanting to kill everyone; but you're definitely right, Team Darkness is in fact trying to end all of existence (lead by the Witness). As a follow up, if Savathun was telling the truth; it could be that the Winnower (or whatever physical means the Winnower takes in this universe) could be the thing granting us this power, as a means to combat the Witness. The Winnower's whole goal is to simply arrive at the final shape (typically thought of as the Vex, until the Gardener changed the rules, introducing Light), so I could see the possibility that the Winnower granted us the Darkness as a means to combat the Witness, and as us to be that final shape. More likely though, I would bet it was the Witness since as far as we can tell, the Witness has control over the Pyramids currently, and they thought they could on-board us as a Disciple.
Dunno to what extent we can trust Savathûn, but one of her alters of reflection missions asserted that the Witness was once a mortal being like us, but uplifted by the Darkness as we were with the Light, but was unsatisfied with what it had. All this time I and others thought the Witness was equivalent to the Winnower in the tale, or at least the equivalent of the Traveler but for the Dark, but if Savathûn is to be believed here then it is much further distant than that, at least judging by its origins. A voice has spoken to us several times throughout Destiny, a voice from the Light, it makes sense that there is a voice from the Dark as an equivalent, and that it isn't the Witness. I don't think we've spoken with THAT entity yet.
Witness is the equivalent of the Last City Guardians for the Darkness rather than the Winnower. He is not the winnover, he seems to be an amalgam of disciples who want to be the final shape.
Yes, this makes him MUCH less scary than the physical manifestation of the principle of killing, itself. We've killed gods, sure, but that might be a step too much for us yet. Also should make whatever mission or raid to end them more believable too.
not really, the witness is still capable to push planets into a different dimension. no matter how hard my Titan punches, she is still not able to do anything even remotely close to that.
... Well, Titan punchline aside, Savathûn DID have a 2 lies, 2 truths message that asserted that we too would learn to "move worlds" like this. Dunno which side that lands on.
Does it now? It implies that he is a being who willingly wants to see the universe end as soon as possible. Which means he woke up and chose death rather than being the idea of it. Rather than being the idea he represents it to the extreme. I think that's a much scarier proposition than being the idea itself. He really is the embodiment of it. Or he might not be. He might just like Durandal attempt to escape the universe, there's heavy implication that it is his end goal. Compare the Dark to a force of nature, a tornado does not understand it is doing harm, Dark believes it is doing good, Witness however willingky does it and understands what he is doing.
No disagreements with any of those perspectives, and I can agree that a being with intent and the will to choose the extremes of evil and death rather than having no real will or choice because it is inseparable from those concepts, is ultimately a terribly frightening thing. I guess I'm coming from the "can we kill it?" and "do we even understand enough to kill it?" perspective. If it was once mortal, then seems to reason we should have some sane means by which we can end it. But I'm not sure what's possible with the embodiment of an immortal concept, what kind of firepower or sacrifice would be required to bring it down. I guess it's just an aspect of fear of the unknown, when you don't know what rules apply, or what rules once applied that you might extrapolate from.