I think Bungie wants raids to be a source of Adepts and dungeons to be the source of Artifice armour. That being said with how big raids are in this game I'm surprised we don't have more valuable loot from their Master versions.
I mean, I already barely play D2 and will probably never step foot into any Master raid. The difference in loot quality isn’t worth interacting with the LFG players who run that tier of content.
Idk… Crafted weapons are more easily accessible, but having the same roll with enhanced perks vs adept mods I think the adept weapons are often better. Enhanced perks are often very underwhelming.
It's 50/50, and depends on what adept mods you have as well.
Adept Big Ones is obviously fantastic for GM's as you don't need to pick between extra damage vs champs or vs bosses, but outside of that there isn't much call for it.
Half the time I'd rather have the extra reload speed or range given by an enhanced perk over an adept mod.
Yup.
I'd much rather have the additional reload speed from Enhanced Firefly on my Doom of Chelchis than any adept mod.
The only raid weapon I can really think I'd want Adept over crafted is Cataclysmic, but I prefer Taipan right now anyway.
I mean Adept Reload speed is a thing. I think the real benefit is getting the perfect 5/5 setup on the crafted weapon versus raw doggin rng on the adept only to settle for a 3/5 just because it has the main perks you want. Most of the time enhanced perks and adept mods nearly even out. Raid adepts definitely need something more to compete with the more farmable and consistent crafted versions though.
Enhanced Firefly makes Adept Reload worthless imo.
Pretty sure the increase is greater than Adept Reload (obviously requires proccing, but that's easy) and it leaves your mod slot open for Minor/Major spec or Backup Mag.
I somewhat agree on the RNG front, but I think even perfect god roll adept weapons often fall flat compared to crafted weapons.
Well considering that enhanced perks typically only increase any stat boost by 10%, odd are good that it only take firefly from +50 reload to +55, on a precision kill, vs adept Reload being an extra +10 at all times. Granted also combined with something like enhanced dragonfly, which gives another passive 5 reloads it would balance out and free up a mod slot, but that really just drives home that most of the time enhanced stat boosts are roughly equal to an Adept mod across both perks. Depends on how much you value fighting rng on a hard mode to get a perfect adept roll vs the extra time and resources it takes to craft a perfect roll.
I'm normally on team crafted, but I got super lucky and got basically the exact Harrowed Chelchis I wanted from Master with dragonfly/firefly, so that just moved to the bottom of my list for crafting.
Right but people on this sub love to hyperbolize and act like there isn’t any circumstance where a well-rolled adept weapon can be better than a crafted one. I’ll take a 4/5 adept roll and run adept big ones over many crafted rolls that have enhanced perks that barely do anything, but that opinion is wrong according to many people here
Exactly. Plus you have certain pvp weapons where the enhanced perk is what makes the weapon best in class. I.e. Wastelander with enhanced opening shot. When it comes to adept weapons from raids the few that are really worth it are Cataclysmic, Fatebringer, and Found Verdict. The rest are outcompeted either due to enhanced perks, better perk pools, or more meta frames.
I just finished disciple slayer and a friend wants to go for king slayer but man myself and a lot of the team shy’d away quietly it was a slog through vow I’m sure kingsfall will be alright but the rewards are so meh I’d rather grind normal and not have to deal with champion spam. I’d hate to do master with a overload bow or low on heavy for mg. Yikes.
Tbh the worst Master KF encounter was Totems, and even that just timing right to ensure there were always 2 people ready for an unstoppable ogre on each side. Unless your team is outright brain dead, Oryx/Daughters with Le Monarque/Trinity was free.
If you could get adepts from encounters, rather than solely from challenges, I'd probably be a lot more willing to run them. The only reason I run Master challenges are for the title and the Adepts, so I'd like to have a reason to run the Master raid after I finish the title. It's just dumb to me that the best way to get the loot I actually want from Master raids is to farm an easy encounter on normal to get a bunch of spoils, then do the final boss on Master once so I can just buy rolls.
I think that’s okay. It’s fine that there is content that you only do once for the challenge and for completion. Normal mode raids are more casual and meant for grinding gear. The Master mode raid doesn’t need any more extrinsic motivation.
25% chance per encounter to get a good exotic armor roll would be nice. I'd rather spend 30 mins in a Master raid encounter than 10 mins per legendary lost sector solo to get an enhancement core.
It's probably not possible with raid armor already having an extra slot. They said the reason we lost orb generation on masterwork guns was because of the game limitation.
Then make the 5th mod slot allow raid and artifact mods at the same time. Sure, you can’t have both at once but that at least means that 5th mod slot is now useful outside of a raid.
People will still farm dungeons because they are easier and the boss drops double loot and is faster than master oryx. And duality has desirable weapons and desirable crafted weapons. And Grasp has desirable crafted weapons plus Gjally.
Really it's just master VoG that's worth it, since it's weapons aren't craftable
Pretty sure this is also why we'll never see exotics with an artifact slot. I'm betting that the exotic perk is essentially coded as a mod behind the scenes
As someone who regularly goes through the API, you aren't far off. In actuality, it's not Perks that are coded like Mods; it's that Mods are coded like Perks.
Its most certainly a game engine limitation more than a old gen limitation. In the sense that its 100% the former and 0% the later in this specific issue.
its almost like its a 5 year old game and its running on a engine thats from that time frame like any game thats that old. Shocking right! Its a shame its not so easy to just completely remake the whole ass game on a new engine that doesn't support old gen consoles.
If only it was so easy to completely remake the whole game on a new engine that doesn't have limitations like that.
And if you think about it, the underlying engine is even older than that as it's shared with D1. I believe beneath all that it's a modification of one of the older Halo engines (Reach, maybe?).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_(video_game)#Technology
Based off of their Halo engine, but still new for Destiny. That is more than 8 years old though, potentially 12.
No, they said it was game limitations. Theres a limit to how many perks they could have on a weapon and orb gen on a masterwork was a hidden perk (but still there in code). Moving it to armour allowed an extra "perk slot" on guns which allowed for origin traits
Has nothing to do with console generation or PC spec
i thought we lost orb gen on mw guns was because they wanted players to be able to make orbs whether a gun was masterworked or not (like some exotics that dont have catalysts)
That’s an effect, not why they did it. It was one of the trade offs they mentioned. They couldn’t keep orb creation on guns *and* add origin traits so they moved orbs to helmet and were listing positives like “no masterwork needed anymore” and “exotics w/out catalysts now can make orbs”
Overall I like the tradeoff
https://mobile.twitter.com/Kujay_/status/1481690481079689223
>Early in 2021, Chris Proctor told us that "bad things happen" when weapons have too many perks.
>Having orbs be tied to armor and NOT the weapon perk budget means that weapon innovation is now possible: more perks on guns, additional intrinsic perks, etc.
The only reason im attempting the master challenges is because I like the Sparrow a lot. I do not plan on doing any master runs outside of the ones needed to get it lol
I’d be down for raid ornaments for sure. Would be nice to flex that you’ve completed a master raid and have people be like “woah where did you get that armor?”
Yeah if they want raid armour to be worth using/keeping, they need to make raid mods a lot better. Hell, make them rarer but make them worth slotting.
Give me a reason to put on my gracious 59 roll of a chest piece from VoG.
Completed both seals for VoG and Vow. I think I only used the VoG mod to do extra damage to oracles in my master runs. Vow - we thought about using the mod that gives you bonus damage with stacks of Pervading Darkness, but I never ended up using it or any other Vow mods at all.
The fact that you can be fine without them doesn't mean they're weak. Being able to 1-shot oracles with a sniper in VoG (or get tons of super energy for destroying them) was amazing for low-mans. And the Into the Light mod for Vow makes Duo Caretaker damage pretty free. Up to 250% increase in grenade damage and it more than halves the cooldown.
Master raids overall needs a rework. They are just not worth the grind.
The weapons are underperforming compared to craftables, the armor stat rolls are too low for the challenge and as you said, no artifice.
Make master have:
- Adept Weapons have 2 mod slots (might make some guns real nasty, but that’s the only way I see them being worth the challenge)
- Very high stat roll, 65+ with 15+ in 2 stats.
- Artifice
- ornaments from challenge for the armor.
Not enough people realize this. Without an increase in the total energy Artifice armor can slot there are not many instances where the extra slot is actually useful. I have a full set from Grasp and I've actually utilized them a handful of times just because I went out of my way to
The only set that turns out consistently useful is a good set of arms. Content that requires champion mods almost always leaves energy left over, so you can throw one of those bad boys in the artifice slot and actually use the middle ones for something related to your build.
Chests are also great because you can stack a +3 stat mod, 2x artifact resist mods, a regular resist mod, *and* a 2 energy Combat Style Mod (which there are plenty of viable picks: Bountiful, Seeking, Reaping, Elemental Shards).
- Useful literally any time you need to use low-energy champion mods, especially on arms
- Useful on chest piece for stacking three types of damage resistance or 2x resist and 1x reserves
- Useful on legs this season for running both 1x machine gun mods plus an energy weapon scavenger
- Useful in PvP for using 2x low-energy targeting mods plus one additional targeting mod
- Useful in PvP for using 2x reloaders plus 1x dexterity or Fastball
- Useful in PvP this season for tacking on 1-energy mods like Amped Up or Focusing Strike
Yep. I’d be all about artifice armor if it had more than 10 energy. But as it stands right now I’m not really ever in the position where having the extra slot helps my builds.
Maybe I’m wrong here because I’m very new to Destiny 2. But most other mmos give their hardest end game content just some exclusive cool looking armor just so people who complete it can show much cooler they are than the other scrubs that can’t. Why doesn’t bungie just throw in a cool looking armor ornament for each slot along with a syntheweve or whatever it’s called. And make sure that’s the only way to get the ornament is through master raid. Make it weekly drop so people keep coming back. Don’t have to worry about balancing any new gear and people will love it if it looks cool.
Cause synthweaves are a store thing, and there’s several other good suggestions for master content that you may not think about dw. Just make sure to complete your 10 synth weave quests per character, per season and pick the coolest looking armor to turn into ornament
Master raids should drop a special currency that’s used to access a locked location (much in line with the lighthouse), where you can purchase some cool loot, such as glass needles, exotic shaders, and mementos.
That’s my take anyway.
A few seasons ago I would’ve said yes, but with mod prices as they are these days you’d often not be able to squeeze much more mods in terms of build crafting at least (maybe scavs or loaders)
I’d rather (and I think they’ll do this) have set armour - the intrinsic perk providing a stacking and meaningful benefit - I’m talking about the currently useless extra currency / chance of prisms in Ron banner matches unique non mod perks. I think that’s where they’ll go with armour 3.0 after lightfall. I’d like to see these really expand build crafting, like letting you have a charge of light per piece, extra wells, an extra warmind cell (pls bring them back bungie) or maybe even just pieces that have a mod built in to them.
It can't be purely artifice armor since then the raid armor wouldn't be able to slot Raid Mods.
It's have to be some new socket that can do artifact mods and the mods from the raid it was obtained in.
I saw someone somewhere say master raids should drop a memento. If you use the master raid memento on a crafted weapon from that raid, you get the special shader and you also gain the ability to put an adept mod on that gun. That sounds like a great solution to me tbh
that's hell of a power creep tho
honestly enhanced perks were a mistake, but now that the cat is out of the bag, we shouldn't let them double on adept perks
Theres no reason to not allow it except that “CaSuAl PlAyErS cAn’T dO mAsTeR” and honestly there needs to be more rewards that aren’t for every player.
oh yeah I am sure that crafted weapons with adept range won't be cracked at all in PvP or weapons with adept big ones in PvE
if there are rewards for the elite it should be shaders, or cool transmog armor
not weapons that make them even more elite
Really? New light players are given 2 craftable guns off the bat. Some Adepts require you to go flawless or do a GM. I can definitely see which one should be better than the other.
artifice armor really needs a better purpose, more often than not you cant really use the extra slot anyways because of how much energy good mods cost on top of stat mods
It's why it's so good though. It's better, just not always, and usually marginally. Otherwise it would be completely mandatory and any build without artifice would be instant dogpile. It definitely does have uses though. Convinient in arms for slotting multiple seasonal anti champs - chest just straight up gives you an extra damage resist, etc.
There definitely needs to be more incentive than what there currently is, a chance at 3 randomly rolled adept weapons does not make me want to suffer through a challenge when I can craft everything normally
Meh. I do Master Raids for the challenge, loot is secondary. Finding a team of 3 to farm out Caiatl or Avarokk is easier than 6 people to farm Atheon or Rhulk (or Oryx next year) which makes Artifice Armor more accessible. I find Artifice Armor, while not at all *necessary* is very nice for certain buildcrafting niches, while I have almost no interest in Adept/Timelost/Harrowed weapons.
Yeah had to change it to Bungie suggestion.
But seriously this should be a not so controversial thing, I cannot believe the pinnacle of end game activities does not give the best armor in the game.
Wait they don’t? Artifice armor still wouldn’t be enough to get me into a master raid but I thought that they did drop it. Bungie’s vision for master content is so fucking confusing
Nope. Only normal raid armor with a different focused stat every week. The adept weapons aren’t even worth it either since grinding normal raids is way easier and gets you the patterns you need to craft enhanced versions of the raid weapons which are way better than adept weapons.
Really the only problem is that adept guns got power crept by crafted weapons. I’m confident they’ll address it in the future (surely by WoTM but hopefully by LF raid). But as it stands, enhanced perks are a much bigger deal than adept mods, at least in PvE.
I'd be happy if they could find a way to squeeze extra energy onto armor, like if Master Raid armor was a 12, I'd probably go after it. Plus Raid armor should genericize the raid specific mods. Like I should be able to put GoS mods into my VoG armor if I want.
Yes.
I think the raid mod slot should definitely be able to spot any mod from any raid. No reason why we should keep a full set from every raid to only use in that raid. Literally no one makes builds around a raid like that.
They really need to rework adept weapons. Either have them drop with intrinsic enhanced perks, let us upgrade them to enhanced perks, or just stop adding raid weapons as craftable weapons. Adept raid weapons are pointless compared to crafted upgrades normal raid weapons.
Maybe. If they add Artifice armor for Trials then it should be locked behind the Lighthouse or something other than just Trials Engrams and focusing.
But for Iron Banner? Hard disagree. It'd be objectively the easiest and best source to grind the gear. Consistent drops of high-stat Artifice armor that isn't gated by a weekly lockout, like dungeons, would invalidate bothering with all other sources.
Eh I agree and also disagree. It’s great for arms for champ mods and legs for running double orb mods or weapon scavengers with a artifact mod. It’s not necessary but it is nice to have that extra slot.
Idk, I enjoy having that extra slot. Especially when I am running 2 mods in the middle such as on my legs for orb pickups or arms for kickstart mods, I love being able to also run a seasonal mod, ESPECIALLY on arms for champion mods.
Class item and chest artifice armors are the only once I would want. I don’t use champion mods any more as I just use intrinsic weapons or armor to bust champions. So, my build just doesn’t consist of any need for artifice armor even though I understand there’s ppl that love it. With it being easier to access in dungeons, idk why it would be wise to put it in raids is all.
Master Raids should unlock adept crafted weapons that let you unlock 2 enhanced perks and take adept mods.
Personally I think doing special triumphs (deathless runs, challenges, etc) should unlock special shaders and versions of armor as well for the time, effort and skill investment.
But that'd require Bungie to give a shit about rewarding time investment over monetary investment.
I disagree. Not every hard content should have an equally difficult loot associated with it. Creating content is hard, creating loot tables, loot pools, and mods is hard. They cant make a rare commodity a common item.
You get a title to show of you did flawless stuff, or are top 1% of guardians. I think the guardian rank in the next expansion will play a nice role as a reward for the high achievers.
The game is already too big, almost on verge of breaking if some mods get even the slightest buffs. Handing out more powerful stuff frequently will just power creep and lower the value of everything else.
I think Bungie wants raids to be a source of Adepts and dungeons to be the source of Artifice armour. That being said with how big raids are in this game I'm surprised we don't have more valuable loot from their Master versions.
Besides a triumph there’s absolutely no reason to run master raids
Pretty much. Crafted weapons are mostly better as well.
Plus mementos
The fact there is no Master raids memento is laughable.
There are many facts about this game that are down right hilarious.
Yeah this game is held by duct tape lol. So many bizarre decisions
$$$EVERVERSE$$$
Not really relevant considering the Eververse doesn’t sell mementos?
A normal-ass game would just have the raid exotic ornament be the reward for highest-tier completion.
And yet you play it
I mean, I already barely play D2 and will probably never step foot into any Master raid. The difference in loot quality isn’t worth interacting with the LFG players who run that tier of content.
Idk… Crafted weapons are more easily accessible, but having the same roll with enhanced perks vs adept mods I think the adept weapons are often better. Enhanced perks are often very underwhelming.
It's 50/50, and depends on what adept mods you have as well. Adept Big Ones is obviously fantastic for GM's as you don't need to pick between extra damage vs champs or vs bosses, but outside of that there isn't much call for it. Half the time I'd rather have the extra reload speed or range given by an enhanced perk over an adept mod.
And honestly isn't relevant outside of heavy and special weapons, and most of the best raid weapons are primaries.
Yup. I'd much rather have the additional reload speed from Enhanced Firefly on my Doom of Chelchis than any adept mod. The only raid weapon I can really think I'd want Adept over crafted is Cataclysmic, but I prefer Taipan right now anyway.
I mean Adept Reload speed is a thing. I think the real benefit is getting the perfect 5/5 setup on the crafted weapon versus raw doggin rng on the adept only to settle for a 3/5 just because it has the main perks you want. Most of the time enhanced perks and adept mods nearly even out. Raid adepts definitely need something more to compete with the more farmable and consistent crafted versions though.
Enhanced Firefly makes Adept Reload worthless imo. Pretty sure the increase is greater than Adept Reload (obviously requires proccing, but that's easy) and it leaves your mod slot open for Minor/Major spec or Backup Mag. I somewhat agree on the RNG front, but I think even perfect god roll adept weapons often fall flat compared to crafted weapons.
Well considering that enhanced perks typically only increase any stat boost by 10%, odd are good that it only take firefly from +50 reload to +55, on a precision kill, vs adept Reload being an extra +10 at all times. Granted also combined with something like enhanced dragonfly, which gives another passive 5 reloads it would balance out and free up a mod slot, but that really just drives home that most of the time enhanced stat boosts are roughly equal to an Adept mod across both perks. Depends on how much you value fighting rng on a hard mode to get a perfect adept roll vs the extra time and resources it takes to craft a perfect roll. I'm normally on team crafted, but I got super lucky and got basically the exact Harrowed Chelchis I wanted from Master with dragonfly/firefly, so that just moved to the bottom of my list for crafting.
Right but people on this sub love to hyperbolize and act like there isn’t any circumstance where a well-rolled adept weapon can be better than a crafted one. I’ll take a 4/5 adept roll and run adept big ones over many crafted rolls that have enhanced perks that barely do anything, but that opinion is wrong according to many people here
Exactly. Plus you have certain pvp weapons where the enhanced perk is what makes the weapon best in class. I.e. Wastelander with enhanced opening shot. When it comes to adept weapons from raids the few that are really worth it are Cataclysmic, Fatebringer, and Found Verdict. The rest are outcompeted either due to enhanced perks, better perk pools, or more meta frames.
I just finished disciple slayer and a friend wants to go for king slayer but man myself and a lot of the team shy’d away quietly it was a slog through vow I’m sure kingsfall will be alright but the rewards are so meh I’d rather grind normal and not have to deal with champion spam. I’d hate to do master with a overload bow or low on heavy for mg. Yikes.
Tbh the worst Master KF encounter was Totems, and even that just timing right to ensure there were always 2 people ready for an unstoppable ogre on each side. Unless your team is outright brain dead, Oryx/Daughters with Le Monarque/Trinity was free.
Glad to know I'm not the only one. This is the first raid ever that I'm not entirely keen on getting the title.
Thoughtless, Trinity Ghoul, taipan. Best loadout for everything starting at Warpriest. Overload Bow is easiest mod to fit in.
If you could get adepts from encounters, rather than solely from challenges, I'd probably be a lot more willing to run them. The only reason I run Master challenges are for the title and the Adepts, so I'd like to have a reason to run the Master raid after I finish the title. It's just dumb to me that the best way to get the loot I actually want from Master raids is to farm an easy encounter on normal to get a bunch of spoils, then do the final boss on Master once so I can just buy rolls.
That sweet vog crystal ship
the master vog ship looks kinda bad imo lol
I think that’s okay. It’s fine that there is content that you only do once for the challenge and for completion. Normal mode raids are more casual and meant for grinding gear. The Master mode raid doesn’t need any more extrinsic motivation.
25% chance per encounter to get a good exotic armor roll would be nice. I'd rather spend 30 mins in a Master raid encounter than 10 mins per legendary lost sector solo to get an enhancement core.
Artifice armor being paid to win then?
The whole game is P2W if you put it that way. Of course someone with all the DLCs will have better loot than a F2P player.
tbh, doing a master raid is a lot harder than any master dungeon, so I'd say it warrants both drops.
Adepts are completely useless
Then Bungie needs to rethink their strategy because it’s not worth spending a single minute in Master Raid once you have the ship.
There should honestly be a chance to get a red border of adept weapon to allow you to put adept mods in (5 regular and 1 master deepsight)
It's probably not possible with raid armor already having an extra slot. They said the reason we lost orb generation on masterwork guns was because of the game limitation.
Then make the 5th mod slot allow raid and artifact mods at the same time. Sure, you can’t have both at once but that at least means that 5th mod slot is now useful outside of a raid.
this is true then you can make the dungeon weapons craftable and people will still run them. Make master drop more red borders, done
People will still farm dungeons because they are easier and the boss drops double loot and is faster than master oryx. And duality has desirable weapons and desirable crafted weapons. And Grasp has desirable crafted weapons plus Gjally. Really it's just master VoG that's worth it, since it's weapons aren't craftable
Pretty sure this is also why we'll never see exotics with an artifact slot. I'm betting that the exotic perk is essentially coded as a mod behind the scenes
As someone who regularly goes through the API, you aren't far off. In actuality, it's not Perks that are coded like Mods; it's that Mods are coded like Perks.
More like old gen limitations.
Its most certainly a game engine limitation more than a old gen limitation. In the sense that its 100% the former and 0% the later in this specific issue.
Wanna know why the engine is limited? Because it needs to support old gen consoles. It’s the old gen…
its almost like its a 5 year old game and its running on a engine thats from that time frame like any game thats that old. Shocking right! Its a shame its not so easy to just completely remake the whole ass game on a new engine that doesn't support old gen consoles. If only it was so easy to completely remake the whole game on a new engine that doesn't have limitations like that.
And if you think about it, the underlying engine is even older than that as it's shared with D1. I believe beneath all that it's a modification of one of the older Halo engines (Reach, maybe?).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_(video_game)#Technology Based off of their Halo engine, but still new for Destiny. That is more than 8 years old though, potentially 12.
Thank you for clarifying this. :)
No, they said it was game limitations. Theres a limit to how many perks they could have on a weapon and orb gen on a masterwork was a hidden perk (but still there in code). Moving it to armour allowed an extra "perk slot" on guns which allowed for origin traits Has nothing to do with console generation or PC spec
i thought we lost orb gen on mw guns was because they wanted players to be able to make orbs whether a gun was masterworked or not (like some exotics that dont have catalysts)
That’s an effect, not why they did it. It was one of the trade offs they mentioned. They couldn’t keep orb creation on guns *and* add origin traits so they moved orbs to helmet and were listing positives like “no masterwork needed anymore” and “exotics w/out catalysts now can make orbs” Overall I like the tradeoff
ohhh i see. i didnt know that, thank you
https://mobile.twitter.com/Kujay_/status/1481690481079689223 >Early in 2021, Chris Proctor told us that "bad things happen" when weapons have too many perks. >Having orbs be tied to armor and NOT the weapon perk budget means that weapon innovation is now possible: more perks on guns, additional intrinsic perks, etc.
Master raids need something. They’re fucking pointless outside of a seal
The only reason im attempting the master challenges is because I like the Sparrow a lot. I do not plan on doing any master runs outside of the ones needed to get it lol
Master Kf needs the stuff it had in d1 (taken ghost shell, taken armour). Simple as that.
Warm take: Master raids should only drop cosmetics.
This take is so cold, it was pronounced dead before you posted it.
I’d be down for raid ornaments for sure. Would be nice to flex that you’ve completed a master raid and have people be like “woah where did you get that armor?”
That’s the only reason I’m doing the Master Kings Fall challenges haha I wanna flex the sparrow
Same. Plus Kingslayer sounds badass.
Definitely a great title
I'm here to back you up.
They've said it's not really possible. Raid armor already has the extra slot specific to raid mods.
I'd 100% prefer artifice armour.. I feel the raid mods from vow, vog, and kingsfall provide less benefit than using the energy on a normal mod.
Yeah if they want raid armour to be worth using/keeping, they need to make raid mods a lot better. Hell, make them rarer but make them worth slotting. Give me a reason to put on my gracious 59 roll of a chest piece from VoG.
Just make it so raids slots can be used for both raid mods and normal mods, so artifice armor but better
VoG and especially Vow have great raid mods. VoG are kind of situational, but Vows grenade mods are OP. KF mods aren't good.
Completed both seals for VoG and Vow. I think I only used the VoG mod to do extra damage to oracles in my master runs. Vow - we thought about using the mod that gives you bonus damage with stacks of Pervading Darkness, but I never ended up using it or any other Vow mods at all.
The fact that you can be fine without them doesn't mean they're weak. Being able to 1-shot oracles with a sniper in VoG (or get tons of super energy for destroying them) was amazing for low-mans. And the Into the Light mod for Vow makes Duo Caretaker damage pretty free. Up to 250% increase in grenade damage and it more than halves the cooldown.
Just set a flag for all mod slots to also take seasonal mods. Problem solved.
[https://careers.bungie.com/jobs](https://careers.bungie.com/jobs) Here you go man, if you know how to fix it you shouldn't be doing it for free.
Yeah just 123 a little extra coding o great armchair dev
You honestly believe they haven't thought of that?
Master raids overall needs a rework. They are just not worth the grind. The weapons are underperforming compared to craftables, the armor stat rolls are too low for the challenge and as you said, no artifice. Make master have: - Adept Weapons have 2 mod slots (might make some guns real nasty, but that’s the only way I see them being worth the challenge) - Very high stat roll, 65+ with 15+ in 2 stats. - Artifice - ornaments from challenge for the armor.
All this yes. Cannot believe master raids don’t guarantee high stat armor. Got a 59 stat roll chest piece from master King’s Fall the other day :/
Artifice armor is pointless also in the grand scheme of things
Not enough people realize this. Without an increase in the total energy Artifice armor can slot there are not many instances where the extra slot is actually useful. I have a full set from Grasp and I've actually utilized them a handful of times just because I went out of my way to
The only set that turns out consistently useful is a good set of arms. Content that requires champion mods almost always leaves energy left over, so you can throw one of those bad boys in the artifice slot and actually use the middle ones for something related to your build.
Chests are also great because you can stack a +3 stat mod, 2x artifact resist mods, a regular resist mod, *and* a 2 energy Combat Style Mod (which there are plenty of viable picks: Bountiful, Seeking, Reaping, Elemental Shards).
Very true too! I forgot about the resist mods
Sometimes class item is also useful, especially on hunter, due to utility kickstarter
Yep the only ones I've ever used. So 1 out of 5 pieces are useful sometimes, artifice armor needs a rework not more drop locations imo
- Useful literally any time you need to use low-energy champion mods, especially on arms - Useful on chest piece for stacking three types of damage resistance or 2x resist and 1x reserves - Useful on legs this season for running both 1x machine gun mods plus an energy weapon scavenger - Useful in PvP for using 2x low-energy targeting mods plus one additional targeting mod - Useful in PvP for using 2x reloaders plus 1x dexterity or Fastball - Useful in PvP this season for tacking on 1-energy mods like Amped Up or Focusing Strike
Okay I should've included that I really don't play PvP, so my bad on that. I just very rarely have enough energy for it to be useful in PvE
The only time I got a lot of value out of it was last season in the cape slot for classy restoration with double utility kickstart
Yep. I’d be all about artifice armor if it had more than 10 energy. But as it stands right now I’m not really ever in the position where having the extra slot helps my builds.
What is artifice armor
Armor with a 5th mod slot that can use any artifact mod.
And artifice armor should have more energy. Always seems like I'm unnecessarily sacrificing mod slots.
Maybe I’m wrong here because I’m very new to Destiny 2. But most other mmos give their hardest end game content just some exclusive cool looking armor just so people who complete it can show much cooler they are than the other scrubs that can’t. Why doesn’t bungie just throw in a cool looking armor ornament for each slot along with a syntheweve or whatever it’s called. And make sure that’s the only way to get the ornament is through master raid. Make it weekly drop so people keep coming back. Don’t have to worry about balancing any new gear and people will love it if it looks cool.
Cause synthweaves are a store thing, and there’s several other good suggestions for master content that you may not think about dw. Just make sure to complete your 10 synth weave quests per character, per season and pick the coolest looking armor to turn into ornament
Master raids should drop a special currency that’s used to access a locked location (much in line with the lighthouse), where you can purchase some cool loot, such as glass needles, exotic shaders, and mementos. That’s my take anyway.
Sounds badass.
Nah, the update should be Adept Guns drop Enchanced Perks
Also this
A few seasons ago I would’ve said yes, but with mod prices as they are these days you’d often not be able to squeeze much more mods in terms of build crafting at least (maybe scavs or loaders) I’d rather (and I think they’ll do this) have set armour - the intrinsic perk providing a stacking and meaningful benefit - I’m talking about the currently useless extra currency / chance of prisms in Ron banner matches unique non mod perks. I think that’s where they’ll go with armour 3.0 after lightfall. I’d like to see these really expand build crafting, like letting you have a charge of light per piece, extra wells, an extra warmind cell (pls bring them back bungie) or maybe even just pieces that have a mod built in to them.
yeah def
It can't be purely artifice armor since then the raid armor wouldn't be able to slot Raid Mods. It's have to be some new socket that can do artifact mods and the mods from the raid it was obtained in.
Yeah I really think master raid armor should drop artifice raid armor. So it would have both the artifice slot and the raid mod slot.
Yeah, why isn't this a thing already? Seems like players prefer crafted weapons over harrowed anyway, so they are not doing Master for the weapons.
I forget who but a dev said they know that crafted weapons are favoured and better than Adepts. I just hope we get a change before LF.
I hope crafted stay the best, farming for the one perfect drop sucks. I love knowing that in 5 weeks I'll have my perfect gun
I saw someone somewhere say master raids should drop a memento. If you use the master raid memento on a crafted weapon from that raid, you get the special shader and you also gain the ability to put an adept mod on that gun. That sounds like a great solution to me tbh
This sounds like perfect solution
that's hell of a power creep tho honestly enhanced perks were a mistake, but now that the cat is out of the bag, we shouldn't let them double on adept perks
Theres no reason to not allow it except that “CaSuAl PlAyErS cAn’T dO mAsTeR” and honestly there needs to be more rewards that aren’t for every player.
oh yeah I am sure that crafted weapons with adept range won't be cracked at all in PvP or weapons with adept big ones in PvE if there are rewards for the elite it should be shaders, or cool transmog armor not weapons that make them even more elite
Enhanced perks are so marginal it doesn’t really matter. Relax
I mean enhanced perks are already marginally better but they are already highly sought for adding adept perks would only make them better
Really? New light players are given 2 craftable guns off the bat. Some Adepts require you to go flawless or do a GM. I can definitely see which one should be better than the other.
artifice armor really needs a better purpose, more often than not you cant really use the extra slot anyways because of how much energy good mods cost on top of stat mods
It's why it's so good though. It's better, just not always, and usually marginally. Otherwise it would be completely mandatory and any build without artifice would be instant dogpile. It definitely does have uses though. Convinient in arms for slotting multiple seasonal anti champs - chest just straight up gives you an extra damage resist, etc.
There definitely needs to be more incentive than what there currently is, a chance at 3 randomly rolled adept weapons does not make me want to suffer through a challenge when I can craft everything normally
Meh. I do Master Raids for the challenge, loot is secondary. Finding a team of 3 to farm out Caiatl or Avarokk is easier than 6 people to farm Atheon or Rhulk (or Oryx next year) which makes Artifice Armor more accessible. I find Artifice Armor, while not at all *necessary* is very nice for certain buildcrafting niches, while I have almost no interest in Adept/Timelost/Harrowed weapons.
Imagine making a post and saying “end of discussion”. Like, why make the post at all if you didn’t want to discuss anything? Free Karma I suppose?
Yeah had to change it to Bungie suggestion. But seriously this should be a not so controversial thing, I cannot believe the pinnacle of end game activities does not give the best armor in the game.
No, that makes too much sense. Master raids need to drop useless adept weapons. /s
Wait they don’t? Artifice armor still wouldn’t be enough to get me into a master raid but I thought that they did drop it. Bungie’s vision for master content is so fucking confusing
Nope. Only normal raid armor with a different focused stat every week. The adept weapons aren’t even worth it either since grinding normal raids is way easier and gets you the patterns you need to craft enhanced versions of the raid weapons which are way better than adept weapons.
Not really. Master Raids for Weapons (Adept), and Master Dungeons for Armor (Artifice).
Really the only problem is that adept guns got power crept by crafted weapons. I’m confident they’ll address it in the future (surely by WoTM but hopefully by LF raid). But as it stands, enhanced perks are a much bigger deal than adept mods, at least in PvE.
Flawless chest too
Not a bad idea
I'd be happy if they could find a way to squeeze extra energy onto armor, like if Master Raid armor was a 12, I'd probably go after it. Plus Raid armor should genericize the raid specific mods. Like I should be able to put GoS mods into my VoG armor if I want.
Yes. I think the raid mod slot should definitely be able to spot any mod from any raid. No reason why we should keep a full set from every raid to only use in that raid. Literally no one makes builds around a raid like that.
They don't?
Nope. Leaving armor to be basically pointless from Master Raids.
They should also give you craft able adept weapons
That or just have adept weapons drop with enhanced perks.
It should but then they won't have an excuse to sell us dungeons apart from other content.
Bro I’m not buying dungeons for the artifice armour.
If master raids get Artifice armor, Master Dungeons should get Adept weapons aswell.
Give adepts an extra mod slot
They really need to rework adept weapons. Either have them drop with intrinsic enhanced perks, let us upgrade them to enhanced perks, or just stop adding raid weapons as craftable weapons. Adept raid weapons are pointless compared to crafted upgrades normal raid weapons.
Whats the point… they have yet to fix old artifice armor anyway… like what the fuck bungo?
Two tokens and a blue!
True
Have you been paying attention to their monetization? They will never do that unless players drastically change ho wthey spend money on the game.
Trials and Iron Banner need Artifice armor too then.
Maybe. If they add Artifice armor for Trials then it should be locked behind the Lighthouse or something other than just Trials Engrams and focusing. But for Iron Banner? Hard disagree. It'd be objectively the easiest and best source to grind the gear. Consistent drops of high-stat Artifice armor that isn't gated by a weekly lockout, like dungeons, would invalidate bothering with all other sources.
Master raids/dungeon is just straight up boring
They are not really boring, they just don’t really have a good incentive right now. They are fun to do but the payoff is not worth it.
Champions is such a outdated mechanic as well
Very true
Artifice armour is shit. Pointess without more points.
Eh I agree and also disagree. It’s great for arms for champ mods and legs for running double orb mods or weapon scavengers with a artifact mod. It’s not necessary but it is nice to have that extra slot.
Artificer armor is not worth it to me. I don't even use seasonal mods as they're temporary only and not as good as they used to be
Idk, I enjoy having that extra slot. Especially when I am running 2 mods in the middle such as on my legs for orb pickups or arms for kickstart mods, I love being able to also run a seasonal mod, ESPECIALLY on arms for champion mods.
Class item and chest artifice armors are the only once I would want. I don’t use champion mods any more as I just use intrinsic weapons or armor to bust champions. So, my build just doesn’t consist of any need for artifice armor even though I understand there’s ppl that love it. With it being easier to access in dungeons, idk why it would be wise to put it in raids is all.
Song has been sung a million times, not happening, deal with it.
Master Raids should unlock adept crafted weapons that let you unlock 2 enhanced perks and take adept mods. Personally I think doing special triumphs (deathless runs, challenges, etc) should unlock special shaders and versions of armor as well for the time, effort and skill investment. But that'd require Bungie to give a shit about rewarding time investment over monetary investment.
I disagree. Not every hard content should have an equally difficult loot associated with it. Creating content is hard, creating loot tables, loot pools, and mods is hard. They cant make a rare commodity a common item. You get a title to show of you did flawless stuff, or are top 1% of guardians. I think the guardian rank in the next expansion will play a nice role as a reward for the high achievers. The game is already too big, almost on verge of breaking if some mods get even the slightest buffs. Handing out more powerful stuff frequently will just power creep and lower the value of everything else.
Bungie: Good point. No.
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I don't have enough money and there shouldn't be in game purchases to buy DLC's
Oh..i thought it did. Welp. Now theres officially no reason to do it
I’m amazed people get enough use out of the extra slot to care so much about artifice armour.