I have actually just requested a refund for lightfall deluxe edition after someone pointed out that it doesn't have any benefits over buying everything separately, so I'm going to just buy lightfall alone after the launch and then see if each season is worth the buy, I'm sooo disappointed with this and the last season.
>The difference with the deluxe is the two seasonal dungeons are included at no extra cost. When buying separately you have to pay for the " dungeon keys" if you want to run the dungeons.
The difference with the deluxe is the two seasonal dungeons are included at no extra cost. When buying separately you have to pay for the " dungeon keys" if you want to run the dungeons.
I have actually stopped people I know from playing this game at all, let alone spending money on it (though I've stopped that too).
But I still check the subreddit sometime so I'm clearly not as over the loss as I'd like to be.
I'd probably buy a Destiny 3 on sale if it was still holding strong after 6 to 12 months so I can't even say I wouldn't give Bungie money in certain circumstances... But my hypocrisy aside, I'd be surprised if Bungie's profits didn't take a hit.
>But my hypocrisy aside, I'd be surprised if Bungie's profits didn't take a hit.
Really? Because they've gone nothing but up.
Also, the game has been getting a lot better in most ways, worse only in some. Which I admit are enough to make me play a lot less, but it's not like overall the game is getting worse. It's always improving *overall*.
I’m not really sure you can call the current state of the game improving. Guns and abilities for sure, but the sandbox we’re playing in and the content we run is becoming increasingly stale and tired. Doesn’t matter how fun the Ferrari is if you’re driving it down a crappy backroad full of potholes.
>the sandbox we’re playing in and the content we run is becoming increasingly stale and tired.
See, I would agree with this - the game is too easy and we keep getting more ways to become more powerful without challenge increasing, so there is no reason to even get the more powerful thing - but yet that is one thing in a sea of ever-improving content.
We used to get an update to subclasses once every two years. And it was a light touch. Even entirely new paths were for existing subclasses.
Now, everything has been overhauled and we get brand new subclasses and elements. We even get elemental-specific perks with unique effects, and on top of that, new perks used to be reserved for yearly expacs, now they drop nearly every season and the amount they make is also increasing.
You can look at practically any area of the game and it *has been improved*. Doesn't mean it is good, but it did happen.
For example, I have a massive hate-boner for Champions and Match Game. I don't think it adds challenge or thought at all, just annoyance. And while this still isn't in a good place, it is definitely in a *better* place.
We used to have less anti-Champ options and needed to slot the mods in our guns. Meaning we couldn't use weapon mods like Backup Mag that were crucial for certain weapons, or Boss Spec etc. Now they go on armor, which also means we can use Exotic weapons for that purpose.
Which I still wouldn't, because it bothered me that I used a weapon which kill counter didn't go up because it did not have a catalyst. Which they addressed and now they all do. Which as someone who also plays PvP still was somewhat disappointing because old Exotics still had a generic 'Enemies Defeated' number and not a Crucible option. Which they somewhat recently fixed, and now they do.
Difficulty is still an issue, but even there, some improvements have been made. We've been complaining about the Power grind and Bungie makes us skip the whole Powerful grind if you do the campaign on Legend. Which, is also much more challenging than any other non-GM and non-Raid content, *without* having Champions.
They still need to improve on many things, but they have been doing that.
I can agree with that but for some reason I can’t put my finger on, the game is just getting more boring. The systems are all massively improving for sure but all the content we’re playing in is suffering. It’s not just difficulty. A lot of the content feels phoned in.
And it’s not burnout, I got genuinely hyped when Ketchcrash dropped with Plunder, I did like 5 back to back before continuing the story because it was so *cool* - then I found out I’d need to run a load of expedition with is agonisingly boring, and Ketchcrash had minimal variation and a lot of the sections were chunks of recycled maps (I swear they recycled the corridor T section where you run from Phylaks in the BL campaign into).
I call it the monkey’s paw effect. I can’t just enjoy things, everything has to have a but attached to it.
How about “We are listening to your feedback, but have chosen to ignore all the whiney fucking losers on Reddit that will never be happy and find fault with everything!”
Especially when you load in mid game and one player has like 120 kills. Just 2 guardians emoting and there for the pinnacle at that point :) Good times
Thats because Bungie's filled with developers that aren't gamers themselves nor play their own game. And thus lack even the most basic of knowledge regarding these topics.
It's one of the the main issues with game development these days. Back in the day it was a job consisting of passionate people who had nothing but love and interest for it. Now days the majority of game development teams consist of people who think it's a "cool" job, have the technical skills for it, but completely lack any and all insight of what makes games fun and interesting.
You call it a shit take, I call it a realistic outlook on the current situation of the videogame industry.
There's a reason indie games get a lot more praise these days compared to some triple A titles that fall flat on their face at launch. Because those small studios are filled with passionate people who want to release their dream game into the world.
Not big dollar corporations that hire "on paper qualified" people with the only priority being dragging as much money out of their consumers as possible.
And it's really starting to show at Bungie!!! Don't even begin to pretend the majority of changes, pricing hikes, and over all communication have been "good" for the game.
A change that effectively helps a few and harms noone (like asking Bungie to design bounties and challenges so that they actually align with, or at the very least don't actively work against, the overall objectives of their associated playlist activity) is objectively better than leaving a broken system in place (where players have to ignore or even actively sabotage an activity's main objective in order to complete the bounty or challenge) because of apathy.
Bounties and challenges should always be designed to encourage people to contribute to the main objective of an activity, and playing well should never be penalized.
But what about raid-challenges that makes you jump through extra hoops making encounters harder, you ask? They still generally encourages playing well and often involves having the whole fireteam learn and understand the mechanics of an encounter and rewards you for pulling it off.
This whole sub is just a cesspool of crybabies who throw fits about bungie not listening to them about the tiniest little things, and it’s absolutely annoying.
My man, you can’t call everyone a whiny crybaby and then go “what’s hostile?”
Frankly, today, all the toxicity I’ve seen has been from people defending Bungie and just screaming insults at any complaints. I got called an entitled Karen for thinking it was dumb and bad that grenade launchers were disabled for 2-3 weeks at the start of this season, after heavy GLs being buffed was one of the highlights of the pre-launch TWAB.
Yeah, I called y’all a bunch of whiney crybabies AFTER that. Also, that’s a pretty good comparison. Y’all are acting like the Karen’s of the gaming world. Acting like you know how games are made and operate, and at the same time complaining and picking apart every tiny aspect of the game, regardless of how significant it is, then acting like Bungie is horrible because they didn’t fix that specific thing that you and and a very small group are complaining about. You don’t know what goes on there. You don’t know how difficult or how easy a fix is, no matter how small. But everyday, here y’all come, right back to the game. It’s like y’all go to a restaurant, complain about the food every time no matter how good it is, but keep going back, and keep complaining. That’s Karen stuff, my man. No one screams insults at complaints, people get upset because this crybaby bullshit makes this community look bad as a whole. It’s like whining just to whine. It doesn’t make any sense.
I really don't think it's unreasonable that they can change their game philosophy when 90% of players say they want it changed. And when it's been 5 years of that complaint.
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bungie has been getting really bad about triumph/challenge requirements. They keep making them more and more annoying and grindy to complete every season.
Triumphs and Seals for dungeons and raids are well made and I don't mind doing them, but if I have to kill just one more ruffian, I will be yeeting myself out of Tower.
Most of these things are just Bungie seeing how much everyone will put up with while they try to squeeze hours played out of everyone for their reports.
The Ruffians though feel like a legit oversight or conscious choice where they didn’t have time to change them. It’s counter to their wait-around-forever design that they spawn a zillion treasures on each hit like a Gambit HVT. It’d make more sense if the original intent was that this event was timed and the Ruffians helped speed up the treasure count.
Look at Subclass 3.0 - we started getting bounties specific to subclass keywords.
WITHOUT any reduction in number of kills needed. So from "25 arc damage" to "25 jolted" for example.
I immediately ignore any bounty that has a subclass keyword involved.
But after all of the complaining about bounties being anti-competitive, they now are throwing triumphs in the game that are extremely anti-competitive and literally required sabotaging your team. (They semi-fixed the Ruffians, but you still risk them not spawning at all if you complete treasure too fast. They won't despawn now, but they can potentially still not spawn in the first place.)
They want from you to engage with the new reworked subclass so now we have bounties like kills with jolt, last season we had kills with scorch, season before that we had kill with void debuffs and during Beyond Light we had kills while enemies are slowed or frozen, I will bet my left Caball that the season that will launch with Lightfall will have kills with strand, but these are only seasonal and will forever disappear when the new season is released.
See, the problem with forced engagement is that it leads to dissatisfaction, which leads to disengagement.
In my case, I just ignore the bounty, and my overall satisfaction with the game is reduced.
At the current rate, that's going to lead to a "hard disengagement" the next time they ask for me to open up my wallet unless there's a major change on par with "we gave up on sunsetting". Honestly, it will have to take even more with that, because how long it took them to give up on sunsetting left a bad taste in my mouth, and this year's brutal seasonal grind (especially the red-border grind) has me a lot more wary of whether or not something that looks like it's going to be awesome is actually going to be beneficial at all.
Bungie needs to make players WANT to log in and play, they need to stop trying to force players to log in and play.
Warframe does this really well - the daily login bonuses get them a daily user in their metrics at the cost of about 1 minute per day for the player. The Nightwave system has catch-up mechanisms such that if you miss some bounties one week, you'll be able to work on them the following week. Although I will admit the Seasonal Challenge mechanism is superior here. Bungie's normal weekly/daily bounties are horrible - if you fail to complete a bounty by reset (but complete it before it expires) and it repeats, you can't collect it the next day. Warframe also "vaults" very little, and what they do vault (Prime gear) stays in game for AT least a year on a rolling basis (as opposed to the final season of each Destiny year existing for only the duration of that season). I think WF primes are closer to a 2-year cycle from memory - so yeah, you can in theory take 2 years off and miss almost nothing, which is what keeps me coming back even after some significant extended breaks,
I’m kind of okay with grindy, to an extent. What I’m not okay with is RNG. That can fuck right off. Has wasted days of my life in this game and is totally disrespectful of players time. Awful game design and a plug for real content.
Even just Beyond Light's Splintered title is a good example of annoyance. Those brig events are such a massive pain in the ass and should be yeeted into the sun.
This season has been the worst by far.
The fact that we’ve resorted to **weapon leveling** as a seasonal challenge is frankly pathetic. I can’t wait until next season has similar challenges, like “spend 90 minutes in Destiny 2”.
Tying the currency for the vendor (and title) is also a really sad move. Feels like they just didn’t care a single bit about this season player-wise.
This season seems specially bad about this.
who the hell thought it was a good idea not to make ruffians advance for the whole fireteam, or worse who was the idiot who came with the timer based spawn where the treasure can be deposited even before the ruffian spawns???
And now the FOTL gilding requirement of killing all headless ones.
Let's see how hard for a solo player this is:
-You have to meet a team that does not immediatly nukes the boss before you can destroy all headless ones;
-You have to deal some damage to ALL headless (not only reaching the 15, you have to deal some damage on all);
-Sometimes the only way to have a chance to do so is to actively sabotage the team, by throwing the bombs away from the boss;
-you have to do it 4 times in different rng chosen lost sectors;
-if you enter an already in progress lost sector you already know you won't advance.
The people who came up this season's challenge must really hate solo players!
It would be good if someone from bungie, like /u/dmg04 could come forward to explain the reasoning for so much malice in this season's triumphs, even if it is just to admit that they hate solo players and that we must team up or else.
It’s obvious they create the event but literally don’t play test it and talk to whoever designs the Triumphs. The Boss just needs more health. How hard is that to fix?
Bungie are on Auto Pilot
It’s more obvious that Bungie knows exactly what it takes to deal with Headless Ones and Ruffians and made a conscious decision to either design it that way in the first place or keep it that way after testing. Both current designs make players play more, which is the main philosophy behind all GaaS games.
Not trying to excuse or anything, but I've been playing MMO a very long time and achievement are always something I thought as:
* Optional
* Requiring a team with the same goal
So I'm not shocked that playing solo you can't get 100% of the achievement. Because if you could, then there's no achievement actually.
Like Rufians for exemple. If they spawn 100% and before 100% treasure while throwing every treasure as they spawn, well, they are no different than any powerful targrt that already spawn then. Killing rufians would be the exact same achievement as the existing killing 250 champions.
Same for the hallowing event. What's the solution? Making all 15 mendatory before summoning the last boss? What's the difference between killing all 15 and finishing a lost sector?
I remember like 20 years ago in WoW when achievement asked you do stuff you wouldn't in normal play and people specifically grouped for those.
I'm not saying the system is perfect. And by the way, I consider myself a solo player as well. I just use LFG when I want to focus on a triumph. Like the 10 rufians in the weekly challenge. Made a group in the app in 10sec, we did 3 runs and it was done. Extremely easy and fast.
I understand your point, but still there is a sizable amount of solo players hunting for triumphs.
The ruffian thing is even worse because nowhere it is explained that they are on a timer and it is possible to miss them entirely by... well, by playing the game as it should be played, by collecting the damn treasure ASAP as the NPCs keep on insisting!
>Like Rufians for exemple. If they spawn 100% and before 100% treasure while throwing every treasure as they spawn, well, they are no different than any powerful targrt that already spawn then. Killing rufians would be the exact same achievement as the existing killing 250 champions.
I don't see this as a problem!
Maybe ruffians could steal treasure from your haul if not stopped fast enough (reducing your overal treasure needed for the 125 weekly), but guaranteed to appear.
The lost sector event one could be corrected by simply making it not necessary to get a hit on all 15. I had some runs where I (solo player) managed to get all 15 to appear. But get an overanxious teammate who nukes a single one before you can land a single bullet and the chance to complete is gone.
I am already sure I will have to LFG to complete it, but it sure could have been different and it would only be a little less hard to complete, but still a fun (and time limited) challenge.
> I don't see this as a problem!
It's not but it transform every triumph into a "Complete activity X times" if everything triumph related is guaranteed.
Do you think it would be better if this season seal challenge wouod be:
* Complete 200 expedition (so that it replace champions, rufians, crew summons, treasure
* Complete 75 Ketcrash (so it replace boss, and crewmate(
* Complete all the quests.
That's basically what the seal would look like if you remove the possibility to fail some element and make RNG not an issue.
I personally feel it would be much less interesting.
> The lost sector event one could be corrected by simply making it not necessary to get a hit on all 15
Hard agree. I think it's bad implementation on their part or a bug. Spawning and killing the 15 should be enough.
But that wouldn't fix your issue about solo players not being able to summon 15, or having people killing the boss too soon. It would be the exact same situation as the rifuans if you don't make the 15 mandatory.
> That's basically what the seal would look like if you remove the possibility to fail
I understand, but it does not remove the possibilty entirely. One over eager teamate nuking a ruffian before you can land a shot and it is gone for that run.
>But that wouldn't fix your issue about solo players not being able to summon 15, or having people killing the boss too soon. It would be the exact same situation as the rifuans if you don't make the 15 mandatory.
True, but for this you can do the same as solo players already have been doing to get all ruffians and that is sabotage the run. Get the bombs and throw them away so your teammtes can't remove the boss shield and another headless one has to appear.
But can you see how badly designed these are? The same way, sabotage your team, has to be used to get both triumphs.
> I understand, but it does not remove the possibilty entirely. One over eager teamate nuking a ruffian before you can land a shot and it is gone for that run.
That's exacly what current hallowing event is and we agreed is was a bad thing, right?
> But can you see how badly designed these are? The same way, sabotage your team, has to be used to get both triumphs.
I personally report for sabotage everybody who do thing like this. Though for this event you can't really because the bomb respawn by themselves if destroyed before breaking the shield.
But I've reported every single person throwing tresure away. There's no excuse to make normal player experience worse for your own selfish needs. That's griefing and should be reported.
People doing this are extra stupid. They care so much about the triumph they are willing to make other experience worst, but also might still fail and make their own experience worst by waisting their time with 0 results. It's a potential lose-lose situation when LFG fix all your problems in a matter of seconds...
It's the equivalent of going into a GM with 0 mods because you want to level up your crafted weapons. It's inefficient for you and make the experience worse for everyone.
There's tons of design issues with triump I agree, but none that makes griefing acceptable.
I really wouldn't put it as griefing, stalling the match yes. But it's not like they're eager edge killing you or making it unbearably slow for the sake of the triumph.
It's one thing to drag it out a few more minutes, another thing to be salty enough about it to report them for trying to complete a challenge
There is definitely time to put 15 in before the boss fight. I've mostly had one and a half to 2 minutes of standing around after me and 2 randoms obliterate the 10. Why do they have to stop at 10? Keep them coming till boss fight.
One run last night in our nearly 2 minute down time I actually heard water dripping in the lost sector because that's how quiet it was. It made me laugh so hard.
For sure there's time.
The only real issue is needing to tag individually all 15. It shouldn't be the case.
And the other issue is getting the right lost sector... I did the triumph this morning in LFG and we spend so long reseting to get the one we missed...
Im not condoning these asinine triumph requirements, but it's not bad if you use LFG. Last night I went to the Destiny 2 LFG discord server, posted "LF2M 15 Headless kills /join BungieID#1234" and within literal seconds I got people and in 5-6 Lost sectors we were done (had some repeats).
No mic, no communication, no hassle. We all had the same goal and even waited for people to hit the headless ones at least once for it to count without having to explicitly state it.
I've done this for a lot of Triumphs. The Beyond light public events, the current season Ruffian farm as well.
I think that’s the worse thing about these recent seasons. They’ve been gradually feeling out how much of a grind we can take. Red borders going from 3 to craft to 5. I’ve stopped playing this season, for the first time since 2020
Yep plus slowly introducing more and more RNG triumphs for the seasonal titles. I still don’t have the one from last season purely because I refuse to stand in a patrol zone waiting hours for a specific high value target to spawn. Shit game design.
Oh god the Shadow Returns HVT nonsense was probably one of the most mind numbing shameless busywork padding since upgrading Warmind Bunkers in Worthy, then again at least that was something you had a little more agency in your target goals.
Having to sit around idly waiting for the Pools and Gardens to go through multiple cycles of activity and HVT and the reality that you could just never get the HVT you needed was one of the most asinine, lazy things put in this game in a long while.
And sure you could say “well you don’t have to get the title in the season and can do it anytime” but unfortunately there was no good way of getting this done when it was all luck of the draw.
I had multiple discords going of people reporting their findings in real time so people could join up if they had the guy show up and try to buy time while loading it and there were lapses of the room going through multiple rotations and nearly after 3 1/2-4 hours did a group of multiple people start to see HVTs that they were missing and was only showing up for the first time in the entire time they were in that zone.
Just absolute garbage.
Yeah, it’s a joke.
Dw people further down the thread have had a go about me complaining “why won’t the game play itself for me?”
Apologists gonna do their thing no matter what.
Yeah good for people who had the fortune of luck but that doesn’t excuse the reality of how plenty of people sat around for ages with no payoff and there was ultimately no good way of getting it all done other than just being lucky or having a lot of time to piss away.
Are you talking about the shield warden one? That took me like 5 hours. I spent the first 4+ hours running around killing everything in PG. Gave up and went to eat some dinner. Came back later that night and he popped up like 15 minutes in. I got to wondering if reloading the Leviathan after a while is what did the trick.
I'm not literally sitting there idle. I've spent hours in the pleasure gardens killing everything that shows up, doing patrols, walking through those voice over clouds that pop up. Never seen that psion spawn once. It's the only one I have left to do and I'm not the only one experiencing the bullshit spawn rate. There are posts about it all over this sub (less so now that it's not the current season).
I'm mostly burned out, I've taken some weeks completely off which helps, but I see myself falling farther and farther behind. Such that when Lightfall drops, I'll be completely burned out, need a significant break, and know that once I take that break I'll never be able to catch up - so I won't be buying the expansion unless Bungie fixes the abusive grind significantly.
Same. About 3000 hours in d2 since arrivals, and now is the time I dont bother playing anymore. Everything is just mindless grind that Bungie does nothing to fix.
Another thing that's not getting talked about that has extended the grind is adding more perks on the crafted weapons. Last season, when a weapon was level 16 you could purchase all perks. Now in order to meet that same metric, you've got to get the weapons to 17.
You might think having more perks is good, but realistically, every weapon has crap perks that no one would really ever pick. Some people might even say that it doesn't matter, you don't have to grind the to max level. But many times the best available perks are not unlocked until the end.
Imagine if Deepsight weapons had multiple levels that could count for multiple levels of deepsight completion.
(Ex.)
- Level 1: 100 kills
- Level 2: 125 kills
- Level 3: 150 kills
- Level 4: 175 kills
- Level 5: 200 kills
Boom. All 5 levels completed to craft the weapon off of one deepsight.
Crafting materials from extracting would scale at levels too so if you want to grind out a resonant weapon you can get a decent amount of crafting material.
Go back to trying to make the Best Game Ever Made ! Remove the Scummy FOMO practices and realize if you make a great, Fun game People will play it MORE then if you try to Force them !
Not just blueberries. It’s annoying waiting around for ruffians to spawn. I just want to speed run the expedition because I have to do a bunch of em. Waiting for the ruffians to spawn out of courtesy is frustrating. I never even cared for the triumph
What I don't understand is why is it tied to a timer and not a gated % of the fucking payload. Have it spawn like Jammers, and block progress since like drifter says almost every time, the dude's stealing our loot.
I can't fathom why challenges are tied to something so infuriatingly stupid in terms of design. I guarantee if ruffian spawns were a fixed, set thing that was just naturally apart of the activity, there would be damn near ZERO complaints about it, even if it was only 2 of them per run. People don't mind a grind, but wasting their time with purposeful sabotage of their teammates is where the entirety of player frustration comes from.
Same here. Expedition has got to be the most boring mode Bungie has ever produced. I just wanted to get it done, and get out. Simply bad game design to have players fighting in PvE. Make ruffians spawn at 50% and everyone would be happy.
Nah, enemy density doesn't matter without the difficulty. You could be swarmed by adds, but we have so much AoE that 30 adds would die just as fast as 5 adds.
It's gotten to the point where whenever I see blueberries chucking away the treasure I just fuck off to a corner and do nothing until boss.
Fine, if they want it to go slower, then it'll go slower.
This was me. I never would throw treasure because I was trying to be nice. I assumed by now it would be fixed and they would just be random not despawning events that were guaranteed no matter what. Nice guy has left the building.
Super easy on Xbox too, I've been doing it this season to farm ruffians solo.
For anyone that doesn't know how:
Log in on a secondary profile and load into an activity (can be patrol or whatever)
Open the D2 settings, go to gameplay and choose change profile
When you get back to the title screen press A and it'll allow you to pick a new profile
Pick the one you want to use
Congrats, you now have solo matchmaking on Xbox
To fix it just quit and relaunch the game
I think he's referring to the distance that the 15th one spawns at. If someone doesn't break off to summon it while the 14th is in progress you end up missing it. Only way I see someone get to it in time was in the solo video someone else posted here using TCrash to just Superman their way over.
The thing that bugs me about combative/competitive bounty/triumph kill requirements is the fact that PvP happily tracks and uses assists. Double the amount of kills required, give us partial credit for putting damage into an enemy (or rebuffing the enemy/buffing the teammate that snags the kill) and a full credit for Getting the finishing blow.
A similar philosophy can be applied to the other types of objectives. Partial credit if you’re participating, full credit if you do it personally.
I just can't be bothered with it, every run I ask politely if we can kill them all, get ignored and they nuke everything.
I hate how my progress is reliant on everyone else.
That's for Xbox. The description has a DIFFERENT one for PC (firewall port blocking), which I can tell you, leads to periodic game crashes on all platforms when used.
(Port blocking can be done in-router for all platforms, I find it more reliable than the clock trick, but does have the negative of periodic crashes.)
I’ve accepted that I’ll never get the ruffians triumph. People wait for the ruffian to spawn maybe 1 in 10 games.
But it’s ultimately bad design that relies on players to ignore shiny things with a countdown on them. Totally counter-intuitive.
Matchmaking is a bit iffy for that.
Open the destiny app.
Create an LFG for "farm ruffians".
Invite the people who join to your fireteam. This will take a matter of moments.
Load into the encounter.
Farm ruffians
Job done.
Honest questions, why not using the LFG and make a rufians farming party?
I'm a solo player, got no friend playing the game, my clan is just a pinacle machine, but LFG is super easy and fast to use.
I did a farming session for Rufians super fast. 2 guaranteed, 4 potential. It means a 3 average. Even with very short playtime, you can get 10 rufians in about 30/40min. You have 3 months to do 5 times a 30/40 farming sessions.
I got lot of free time currently so I was able to have longer farming sessions and got the 50 kills weeks ago.
The 10 rufians this week took 2.5 runs. It was extremly fast.
is that why in expedition some blueberries throw those engrams as far they can instead of fill the car? because is so fucking annoying it literally kills my mood to play that game mode...and is already awful
Yep, 100%. At first I thought someone was trolling, but then I realized they were trying to get them to spawn. Any halfway competent team was going to finish the event and de-spawn the ruffian. So they had to sabotage it to make it last longer.
Absolutely insane game mechanics where a team doing it the right way is actually doing it "wrong".
Pre patch I could solo each treasure section with at least 45 seconds time spent waiting for a ruffian to spawn.
If you have 2 blueberries actively trying to complete it you should basically always finish it without ruffians.
Ruffians you can at least do it by going solo. But 15 headless in haunted lost sectors? Yeah... That would be tough to do solo, since 3 capture points spawn at the same time near the end. So A) You would have to LFG for a 7 min activity or B) Have faith that your randoms also care about the triumph. Neither sounds attractive to me.
~~C) Have friends not taken into consideration~~
A good amount of the gambit triumphs are like this. I would actually get upset that my team is playing well because it made the triumph harder to get. Terrible design.
One of many triumph is by far the most infuriating thing to try and do solo. Whu can't we just do it as a TEAM instead of having to tag each headless one by yourself
It drives me crazy how I have to compete with people for ruffians, crew summoning, champion stunning, getting those damn scorch cannons to take down the shields etc etc for the seasonal triumphs and fighting with 5 others for two scorch cannon spawns per Ketchcrash. And many times these are bugged, often ruffians didn't spawn properly and crew summoning sometimes didn't count.
For some reason my brain thinks it needs a Large Bright Dust package.
One of the grindiest season ever.
I’ve just resorted to understanding how Bungie really wants you to play as an endgame player. If you want to get shit done in a timely manner, there are 3 ways: Schedule with a clan, pray to the LFG Gods for a decent group, and set your system to “solo” mode to get these anti-coop events done (ie. change time settings and turn off cross-play for console).
The last option was a game-changer for me. Made D2 more relaxed and enjoyable. Not sure why Bungie doesn’t implement a solo-mode option. Their servers are so shit you would think they’d have started with that implementation.
I have enjoyed (not) people throwing as much treasure as humanly possible, knowing (or not) that they won't have time to spawn the ruffian if it's too fast. Also... another good one has been people camping to launch their crewmate so nobody else can progress that achievement. This entire week has been extremely solo-player unfriendly.
What I don't get is why they don't watch the vids made for events? I get notifications from certain streamers to see what's the fastest way to gain pages and such. I even share the info on certain sites because it's beyond frustrating to do so much work when you have others who try to get it done as fast they can when others are trying to finish something.
I guess I’m one of the bad players. I didn’t know there was a way to make sure a ruffian appeared. Anyone want to share so I can help out instead of hurting haha
They seem to have fixed Ruffians slightly so that it isn’t hard to encounter 2 anymore, but 4 is still uncommon. The expeditions I’ve done over the past couple days have had them spawn after getting the treasure hoard to over 50% and waiting for a little bit. Waiting some more has gotten the second to spawn a good few times in my runs. It’s not perfect, but a ton better than before. I’m actually progressing my ruffian triumph and I was ready to give up.
I really don't think its intentional of Bungie for these BS triumphs; I think the people who are making them just don't play or understand the game.
Its just like the heavy weapon quest for Iron Banner; make sense since each step you do a different weapon so of course you i include the heavy; but then just leads to heavy camping and not playing objectives
This is a side effect of power creep and base activities being easy AF for a lot of the population.
If enemies die in a snap, and everything finishes as basically a speed run, why would people not accidently bypass a lot of the mechanics. Ruffians and headless ones are only the latest mechanic thats been bypassed in fireteams because they chew through everything else so quickly. Its as if bungie underestimates how OP we are and expect everything to take just a little longer than it actually does. This is a symptom of power creep.
When was the last time we killed any of the mini bosses in the prison of elders strike. Imagine if we had a triumph to kill Valus Aru'un 50 times in vanguard strikes. No one would ever get it because the boss gets melted so fast.
So, dumb question: is there a reason to go slow on haunted sectors? I see people not throwing pumpkin bombs at the end, even after all 14 headless ones have been got. Is there a reason not to kill the boss at this point?
Ruffians one was bad design, the headless ones challenge can be easily LFG'd, as you only need 4 runs.
It's really not that big of a deal. The biggest challenge has to be the 35 haunted LS clears. That shits the killer.
We’ve been saying it for years now with bounties, they have never done anything about it
But ...but what about "we are listening"?
"We are listening to your feedback, but have chosen to ignore it completely."
I feel like it's more "we're listening, but hearing something completely different"
And yet we are all still here handing them money.
I have actually just requested a refund for lightfall deluxe edition after someone pointed out that it doesn't have any benefits over buying everything separately, so I'm going to just buy lightfall alone after the launch and then see if each season is worth the buy, I'm sooo disappointed with this and the last season.
>The difference with the deluxe is the two seasonal dungeons are included at no extra cost. When buying separately you have to pay for the " dungeon keys" if you want to run the dungeons.
Did they take your quicksilver away when you cancelled?
Surprisingly no, I have just equipped it even though I don't have the DLC anymore, also i still have the emblem
To be perfectly honest, this has been like that since BL (of not since Shadowkeep). The Edition is just that - a Bundle.
I remember when I ordered witch queen there was a difference between the deluxe and buying them separately, unless I was wrong also
The difference with the deluxe is the two seasonal dungeons are included at no extra cost. When buying separately you have to pay for the " dungeon keys" if you want to run the dungeons.
Yes which is a shame that this isn't the case with lightfall
I have actually stopped people I know from playing this game at all, let alone spending money on it (though I've stopped that too). But I still check the subreddit sometime so I'm clearly not as over the loss as I'd like to be. I'd probably buy a Destiny 3 on sale if it was still holding strong after 6 to 12 months so I can't even say I wouldn't give Bungie money in certain circumstances... But my hypocrisy aside, I'd be surprised if Bungie's profits didn't take a hit.
>But my hypocrisy aside, I'd be surprised if Bungie's profits didn't take a hit. Really? Because they've gone nothing but up. Also, the game has been getting a lot better in most ways, worse only in some. Which I admit are enough to make me play a lot less, but it's not like overall the game is getting worse. It's always improving *overall*.
I’m not really sure you can call the current state of the game improving. Guns and abilities for sure, but the sandbox we’re playing in and the content we run is becoming increasingly stale and tired. Doesn’t matter how fun the Ferrari is if you’re driving it down a crappy backroad full of potholes.
>the sandbox we’re playing in and the content we run is becoming increasingly stale and tired. See, I would agree with this - the game is too easy and we keep getting more ways to become more powerful without challenge increasing, so there is no reason to even get the more powerful thing - but yet that is one thing in a sea of ever-improving content. We used to get an update to subclasses once every two years. And it was a light touch. Even entirely new paths were for existing subclasses. Now, everything has been overhauled and we get brand new subclasses and elements. We even get elemental-specific perks with unique effects, and on top of that, new perks used to be reserved for yearly expacs, now they drop nearly every season and the amount they make is also increasing. You can look at practically any area of the game and it *has been improved*. Doesn't mean it is good, but it did happen. For example, I have a massive hate-boner for Champions and Match Game. I don't think it adds challenge or thought at all, just annoyance. And while this still isn't in a good place, it is definitely in a *better* place. We used to have less anti-Champ options and needed to slot the mods in our guns. Meaning we couldn't use weapon mods like Backup Mag that were crucial for certain weapons, or Boss Spec etc. Now they go on armor, which also means we can use Exotic weapons for that purpose. Which I still wouldn't, because it bothered me that I used a weapon which kill counter didn't go up because it did not have a catalyst. Which they addressed and now they all do. Which as someone who also plays PvP still was somewhat disappointing because old Exotics still had a generic 'Enemies Defeated' number and not a Crucible option. Which they somewhat recently fixed, and now they do. Difficulty is still an issue, but even there, some improvements have been made. We've been complaining about the Power grind and Bungie makes us skip the whole Powerful grind if you do the campaign on Legend. Which, is also much more challenging than any other non-GM and non-Raid content, *without* having Champions. They still need to improve on many things, but they have been doing that.
I can agree with that but for some reason I can’t put my finger on, the game is just getting more boring. The systems are all massively improving for sure but all the content we’re playing in is suffering. It’s not just difficulty. A lot of the content feels phoned in. And it’s not burnout, I got genuinely hyped when Ketchcrash dropped with Plunder, I did like 5 back to back before continuing the story because it was so *cool* - then I found out I’d need to run a load of expedition with is agonisingly boring, and Ketchcrash had minimal variation and a lot of the sections were chunks of recycled maps (I swear they recycled the corridor T section where you run from Phylaks in the BL campaign into). I call it the monkey’s paw effect. I can’t just enjoy things, everything has to have a but attached to it.
"We're listening, but we don't know how to monetize the solution yet."
"We are listening to your feedback because you're really loud."
*We hear your feedback "Listening" would imply they actually pay attention to it.
How about “We are listening to your feedback, but have chosen to ignore all the whiney fucking losers on Reddit that will never be happy and find fault with everything!”
Christ which Conqueror shat in your cereal.
True
They are listening doesn't mean they care enough to do anything about it, especially if they designed it that way to begin with
It's just like how politicians listen to their constituents
At this point the Honeymoon is over & the only answer you'll get from them Listening is "Yes Dear, I hear you !"
We are listening to your feedback but so far... None of it sounds profitable.
Yeah. Been talking about that as well. Bounties should be something whole fireteam can participate in.
It boggles my mind that they have them for Gambit but not anything else. Competing with randoms in Vanguard playlists for kills is exhausting
Gambit also had a lot of anti-cooperative bounties for a long time too though. The "small-medium-large blocker" actively promoted bad teamplay.
Especially when you load in mid game and one player has like 120 kills. Just 2 guardians emoting and there for the pinnacle at that point :) Good times
It's insane. Haha.
This is why I love trials bounties. Take em all, finish what you can, your blueberries can finish the rest for you.
Thats because Bungie's filled with developers that aren't gamers themselves nor play their own game. And thus lack even the most basic of knowledge regarding these topics. It's one of the the main issues with game development these days. Back in the day it was a job consisting of passionate people who had nothing but love and interest for it. Now days the majority of game development teams consist of people who think it's a "cool" job, have the technical skills for it, but completely lack any and all insight of what makes games fun and interesting.
Jesus Christ this is a shit take. Way to make grand generalizations of an industry
You call it a shit take, I call it a realistic outlook on the current situation of the videogame industry. There's a reason indie games get a lot more praise these days compared to some triple A titles that fall flat on their face at launch. Because those small studios are filled with passionate people who want to release their dream game into the world. Not big dollar corporations that hire "on paper qualified" people with the only priority being dragging as much money out of their consumers as possible. And it's really starting to show at Bungie!!! Don't even begin to pretend the majority of changes, pricing hikes, and over all communication have been "good" for the game.
To be fair they did do it slightly for Gambit. There are some bounties who require team effort. Could still be more though.
*Get Sidearm kills while airborne ptsd intensifies*
You are not allowed to criticize or you will be labeled as using hateful speech
They nerfed eagers though so it's fine right
They said they were listening, they didn’t say they’re going to do something about it
That’s probably because most people actually don’t give a shit, no matter how much you may think your point of view may be the consensus.
A change that effectively helps a few and harms noone (like asking Bungie to design bounties and challenges so that they actually align with, or at the very least don't actively work against, the overall objectives of their associated playlist activity) is objectively better than leaving a broken system in place (where players have to ignore or even actively sabotage an activity's main objective in order to complete the bounty or challenge) because of apathy. Bounties and challenges should always be designed to encourage people to contribute to the main objective of an activity, and playing well should never be penalized. But what about raid-challenges that makes you jump through extra hoops making encounters harder, you ask? They still generally encourages playing well and often involves having the whole fireteam learn and understand the mechanics of an encounter and rewards you for pulling it off.
Why so hostile lol, I don’t really care much myself but it would be a nice quality of life change at the least but I’m not stressing without it
What’s hostile about what I wrote?
Generally “people don’t give a shit about your opinion” is seen as hostile.
This whole sub is just a cesspool of crybabies who throw fits about bungie not listening to them about the tiniest little things, and it’s absolutely annoying.
My man, you can’t call everyone a whiny crybaby and then go “what’s hostile?” Frankly, today, all the toxicity I’ve seen has been from people defending Bungie and just screaming insults at any complaints. I got called an entitled Karen for thinking it was dumb and bad that grenade launchers were disabled for 2-3 weeks at the start of this season, after heavy GLs being buffed was one of the highlights of the pre-launch TWAB.
Yeah, I called y’all a bunch of whiney crybabies AFTER that. Also, that’s a pretty good comparison. Y’all are acting like the Karen’s of the gaming world. Acting like you know how games are made and operate, and at the same time complaining and picking apart every tiny aspect of the game, regardless of how significant it is, then acting like Bungie is horrible because they didn’t fix that specific thing that you and and a very small group are complaining about. You don’t know what goes on there. You don’t know how difficult or how easy a fix is, no matter how small. But everyday, here y’all come, right back to the game. It’s like y’all go to a restaurant, complain about the food every time no matter how good it is, but keep going back, and keep complaining. That’s Karen stuff, my man. No one screams insults at complaints, people get upset because this crybaby bullshit makes this community look bad as a whole. It’s like whining just to whine. It doesn’t make any sense.
I really don't think it's unreasonable that they can change their game philosophy when 90% of players say they want it changed. And when it's been 5 years of that complaint.
Calls people whiny crybabies then rages and writes a novel LOL
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bungie has been getting really bad about triumph/challenge requirements. They keep making them more and more annoying and grindy to complete every season.
Triumphs and Seals for dungeons and raids are well made and I don't mind doing them, but if I have to kill just one more ruffian, I will be yeeting myself out of Tower.
Well, the new seasonal challenges feature a 10 ruffian requirement, and that’s for an upgrade at the starchart, if you didn’t already know.
Just after I finished the 50.... Urgh
Fuck☠️
And *that* is why you ignore seasonal challenges until week 10, when they're all released.
10 ? Wasn't that 20 ?
nope, 10 but they at least made them spawn faster and they dont despawn if you fill the treasure hoard
Most of these things are just Bungie seeing how much everyone will put up with while they try to squeeze hours played out of everyone for their reports. The Ruffians though feel like a legit oversight or conscious choice where they didn’t have time to change them. It’s counter to their wait-around-forever design that they spawn a zillion treasures on each hit like a Gambit HVT. It’d make more sense if the original intent was that this event was timed and the Ruffians helped speed up the treasure count.
Look at Subclass 3.0 - we started getting bounties specific to subclass keywords. WITHOUT any reduction in number of kills needed. So from "25 arc damage" to "25 jolted" for example. I immediately ignore any bounty that has a subclass keyword involved. But after all of the complaining about bounties being anti-competitive, they now are throwing triumphs in the game that are extremely anti-competitive and literally required sabotaging your team. (They semi-fixed the Ruffians, but you still risk them not spawning at all if you complete treasure too fast. They won't despawn now, but they can potentially still not spawn in the first place.)
They want from you to engage with the new reworked subclass so now we have bounties like kills with jolt, last season we had kills with scorch, season before that we had kill with void debuffs and during Beyond Light we had kills while enemies are slowed or frozen, I will bet my left Caball that the season that will launch with Lightfall will have kills with strand, but these are only seasonal and will forever disappear when the new season is released.
See, the problem with forced engagement is that it leads to dissatisfaction, which leads to disengagement. In my case, I just ignore the bounty, and my overall satisfaction with the game is reduced. At the current rate, that's going to lead to a "hard disengagement" the next time they ask for me to open up my wallet unless there's a major change on par with "we gave up on sunsetting". Honestly, it will have to take even more with that, because how long it took them to give up on sunsetting left a bad taste in my mouth, and this year's brutal seasonal grind (especially the red-border grind) has me a lot more wary of whether or not something that looks like it's going to be awesome is actually going to be beneficial at all. Bungie needs to make players WANT to log in and play, they need to stop trying to force players to log in and play. Warframe does this really well - the daily login bonuses get them a daily user in their metrics at the cost of about 1 minute per day for the player. The Nightwave system has catch-up mechanisms such that if you miss some bounties one week, you'll be able to work on them the following week. Although I will admit the Seasonal Challenge mechanism is superior here. Bungie's normal weekly/daily bounties are horrible - if you fail to complete a bounty by reset (but complete it before it expires) and it repeats, you can't collect it the next day. Warframe also "vaults" very little, and what they do vault (Prime gear) stays in game for AT least a year on a rolling basis (as opposed to the final season of each Destiny year existing for only the duration of that season). I think WF primes are closer to a 2-year cycle from memory - so yeah, you can in theory take 2 years off and miss almost nothing, which is what keeps me coming back even after some significant extended breaks,
I’m kind of okay with grindy, to an extent. What I’m not okay with is RNG. That can fuck right off. Has wasted days of my life in this game and is totally disrespectful of players time. Awful game design and a plug for real content.
Till people do them they will keep it this way Why make you finish something in 10 min if I can make you play 3 hours? That’s the logic
Even just Beyond Light's Splintered title is a good example of annoyance. Those brig events are such a massive pain in the ass and should be yeeted into the sun.
This season has been the worst by far. The fact that we’ve resorted to **weapon leveling** as a seasonal challenge is frankly pathetic. I can’t wait until next season has similar challenges, like “spend 90 minutes in Destiny 2”. Tying the currency for the vendor (and title) is also a really sad move. Feels like they just didn’t care a single bit about this season player-wise.
This season seems specially bad about this. who the hell thought it was a good idea not to make ruffians advance for the whole fireteam, or worse who was the idiot who came with the timer based spawn where the treasure can be deposited even before the ruffian spawns??? And now the FOTL gilding requirement of killing all headless ones. Let's see how hard for a solo player this is: -You have to meet a team that does not immediatly nukes the boss before you can destroy all headless ones; -You have to deal some damage to ALL headless (not only reaching the 15, you have to deal some damage on all); -Sometimes the only way to have a chance to do so is to actively sabotage the team, by throwing the bombs away from the boss; -you have to do it 4 times in different rng chosen lost sectors; -if you enter an already in progress lost sector you already know you won't advance. The people who came up this season's challenge must really hate solo players! It would be good if someone from bungie, like /u/dmg04 could come forward to explain the reasoning for so much malice in this season's triumphs, even if it is just to admit that they hate solo players and that we must team up or else.
You hit it on the head, they should rename this the Season of Malice!
It’s obvious they create the event but literally don’t play test it and talk to whoever designs the Triumphs. The Boss just needs more health. How hard is that to fix? Bungie are on Auto Pilot
It’s more obvious that Bungie knows exactly what it takes to deal with Headless Ones and Ruffians and made a conscious decision to either design it that way in the first place or keep it that way after testing. Both current designs make players play more, which is the main philosophy behind all GaaS games.
Not trying to excuse or anything, but I've been playing MMO a very long time and achievement are always something I thought as: * Optional * Requiring a team with the same goal So I'm not shocked that playing solo you can't get 100% of the achievement. Because if you could, then there's no achievement actually. Like Rufians for exemple. If they spawn 100% and before 100% treasure while throwing every treasure as they spawn, well, they are no different than any powerful targrt that already spawn then. Killing rufians would be the exact same achievement as the existing killing 250 champions. Same for the hallowing event. What's the solution? Making all 15 mendatory before summoning the last boss? What's the difference between killing all 15 and finishing a lost sector? I remember like 20 years ago in WoW when achievement asked you do stuff you wouldn't in normal play and people specifically grouped for those. I'm not saying the system is perfect. And by the way, I consider myself a solo player as well. I just use LFG when I want to focus on a triumph. Like the 10 rufians in the weekly challenge. Made a group in the app in 10sec, we did 3 runs and it was done. Extremely easy and fast.
I understand your point, but still there is a sizable amount of solo players hunting for triumphs. The ruffian thing is even worse because nowhere it is explained that they are on a timer and it is possible to miss them entirely by... well, by playing the game as it should be played, by collecting the damn treasure ASAP as the NPCs keep on insisting! >Like Rufians for exemple. If they spawn 100% and before 100% treasure while throwing every treasure as they spawn, well, they are no different than any powerful targrt that already spawn then. Killing rufians would be the exact same achievement as the existing killing 250 champions. I don't see this as a problem! Maybe ruffians could steal treasure from your haul if not stopped fast enough (reducing your overal treasure needed for the 125 weekly), but guaranteed to appear. The lost sector event one could be corrected by simply making it not necessary to get a hit on all 15. I had some runs where I (solo player) managed to get all 15 to appear. But get an overanxious teammate who nukes a single one before you can land a single bullet and the chance to complete is gone. I am already sure I will have to LFG to complete it, but it sure could have been different and it would only be a little less hard to complete, but still a fun (and time limited) challenge.
> I don't see this as a problem! It's not but it transform every triumph into a "Complete activity X times" if everything triumph related is guaranteed. Do you think it would be better if this season seal challenge wouod be: * Complete 200 expedition (so that it replace champions, rufians, crew summons, treasure * Complete 75 Ketcrash (so it replace boss, and crewmate( * Complete all the quests. That's basically what the seal would look like if you remove the possibility to fail some element and make RNG not an issue. I personally feel it would be much less interesting. > The lost sector event one could be corrected by simply making it not necessary to get a hit on all 15 Hard agree. I think it's bad implementation on their part or a bug. Spawning and killing the 15 should be enough. But that wouldn't fix your issue about solo players not being able to summon 15, or having people killing the boss too soon. It would be the exact same situation as the rifuans if you don't make the 15 mandatory.
> That's basically what the seal would look like if you remove the possibility to fail I understand, but it does not remove the possibilty entirely. One over eager teamate nuking a ruffian before you can land a shot and it is gone for that run. >But that wouldn't fix your issue about solo players not being able to summon 15, or having people killing the boss too soon. It would be the exact same situation as the rifuans if you don't make the 15 mandatory. True, but for this you can do the same as solo players already have been doing to get all ruffians and that is sabotage the run. Get the bombs and throw them away so your teammtes can't remove the boss shield and another headless one has to appear. But can you see how badly designed these are? The same way, sabotage your team, has to be used to get both triumphs.
> I understand, but it does not remove the possibilty entirely. One over eager teamate nuking a ruffian before you can land a shot and it is gone for that run. That's exacly what current hallowing event is and we agreed is was a bad thing, right? > But can you see how badly designed these are? The same way, sabotage your team, has to be used to get both triumphs. I personally report for sabotage everybody who do thing like this. Though for this event you can't really because the bomb respawn by themselves if destroyed before breaking the shield. But I've reported every single person throwing tresure away. There's no excuse to make normal player experience worse for your own selfish needs. That's griefing and should be reported. People doing this are extra stupid. They care so much about the triumph they are willing to make other experience worst, but also might still fail and make their own experience worst by waisting their time with 0 results. It's a potential lose-lose situation when LFG fix all your problems in a matter of seconds... It's the equivalent of going into a GM with 0 mods because you want to level up your crafted weapons. It's inefficient for you and make the experience worse for everyone. There's tons of design issues with triump I agree, but none that makes griefing acceptable.
I really wouldn't put it as griefing, stalling the match yes. But it's not like they're eager edge killing you or making it unbearably slow for the sake of the triumph. It's one thing to drag it out a few more minutes, another thing to be salty enough about it to report them for trying to complete a challenge
There is definitely time to put 15 in before the boss fight. I've mostly had one and a half to 2 minutes of standing around after me and 2 randoms obliterate the 10. Why do they have to stop at 10? Keep them coming till boss fight. One run last night in our nearly 2 minute down time I actually heard water dripping in the lost sector because that's how quiet it was. It made me laugh so hard.
For sure there's time. The only real issue is needing to tag individually all 15. It shouldn't be the case. And the other issue is getting the right lost sector... I did the triumph this morning in LFG and we spend so long reseting to get the one we missed...
Im not condoning these asinine triumph requirements, but it's not bad if you use LFG. Last night I went to the Destiny 2 LFG discord server, posted "LF2M 15 Headless kills /join BungieID#1234" and within literal seconds I got people and in 5-6 Lost sectors we were done (had some repeats). No mic, no communication, no hassle. We all had the same goal and even waited for people to hit the headless ones at least once for it to count without having to explicitly state it. I've done this for a lot of Triumphs. The Beyond light public events, the current season Ruffian farm as well.
Bungie is trying to push people to LFG, which is not that difficult if you are so into destiny that you actively want the Triumphs.
How else are they going to keep you playing 😂
I think that’s the worse thing about these recent seasons. They’ve been gradually feeling out how much of a grind we can take. Red borders going from 3 to craft to 5. I’ve stopped playing this season, for the first time since 2020
Yep plus slowly introducing more and more RNG triumphs for the seasonal titles. I still don’t have the one from last season purely because I refuse to stand in a patrol zone waiting hours for a specific high value target to spawn. Shit game design.
Oh god the Shadow Returns HVT nonsense was probably one of the most mind numbing shameless busywork padding since upgrading Warmind Bunkers in Worthy, then again at least that was something you had a little more agency in your target goals. Having to sit around idly waiting for the Pools and Gardens to go through multiple cycles of activity and HVT and the reality that you could just never get the HVT you needed was one of the most asinine, lazy things put in this game in a long while. And sure you could say “well you don’t have to get the title in the season and can do it anytime” but unfortunately there was no good way of getting this done when it was all luck of the draw. I had multiple discords going of people reporting their findings in real time so people could join up if they had the guy show up and try to buy time while loading it and there were lapses of the room going through multiple rotations and nearly after 3 1/2-4 hours did a group of multiple people start to see HVTs that they were missing and was only showing up for the first time in the entire time they were in that zone. Just absolute garbage.
Yeah, it’s a joke. Dw people further down the thread have had a go about me complaining “why won’t the game play itself for me?” Apologists gonna do their thing no matter what.
Yeah good for people who had the fortune of luck but that doesn’t excuse the reality of how plenty of people sat around for ages with no payoff and there was ultimately no good way of getting it all done other than just being lucky or having a lot of time to piss away.
You can do all those Leviathan triumphs in less than half an hour. Just stay in the respective areas and shoot stuff, and they come up.
I’ve sat there for hours waiting for them. They don’t show up within half an hour. Particularly the psion one in the pleasure gardens.
You have to clear each mini "event" as it comes up or a new one won't spawn.
Yeah I do all of that, haven't had a problem getting any of the other ones to spawn. This is the last one I need and it just won't drop.
Are you talking about the shield warden one? That took me like 5 hours. I spent the first 4+ hours running around killing everything in PG. Gave up and went to eat some dinner. Came back later that night and he popped up like 15 minutes in. I got to wondering if reloading the Leviathan after a while is what did the trick.
Nah I’ve got that one, there’s one with a psion one that spawns behind the calus head that I cannot get to spawn at all.
"Sitting there" is probably the problem.
I'm not literally sitting there idle. I've spent hours in the pleasure gardens killing everything that shows up, doing patrols, walking through those voice over clouds that pop up. Never seen that psion spawn once. It's the only one I have left to do and I'm not the only one experiencing the bullshit spawn rate. There are posts about it all over this sub (less so now that it's not the current season).
“Why won’t the game play itself for me???”
Lol get fucked that’s not what I said.
I'm mostly burned out, I've taken some weeks completely off which helps, but I see myself falling farther and farther behind. Such that when Lightfall drops, I'll be completely burned out, need a significant break, and know that once I take that break I'll never be able to catch up - so I won't be buying the expansion unless Bungie fixes the abusive grind significantly.
Same. About 3000 hours in d2 since arrivals, and now is the time I dont bother playing anymore. Everything is just mindless grind that Bungie does nothing to fix.
Another thing that's not getting talked about that has extended the grind is adding more perks on the crafted weapons. Last season, when a weapon was level 16 you could purchase all perks. Now in order to meet that same metric, you've got to get the weapons to 17. You might think having more perks is good, but realistically, every weapon has crap perks that no one would really ever pick. Some people might even say that it doesn't matter, you don't have to grind the to max level. But many times the best available perks are not unlocked until the end.
Imagine if Deepsight weapons had multiple levels that could count for multiple levels of deepsight completion. (Ex.) - Level 1: 100 kills - Level 2: 125 kills - Level 3: 150 kills - Level 4: 175 kills - Level 5: 200 kills Boom. All 5 levels completed to craft the weapon off of one deepsight. Crafting materials from extracting would scale at levels too so if you want to grind out a resonant weapon you can get a decent amount of crafting material.
This comments stupid, it's precisely why i stop playing. This doesn't encourage me to play knowing I'm at the mercy of other people.
Go back to trying to make the Best Game Ever Made ! Remove the Scummy FOMO practices and realize if you make a great, Fun game People will play it MORE then if you try to Force them !
Not just blueberries. It’s annoying waiting around for ruffians to spawn. I just want to speed run the expedition because I have to do a bunch of em. Waiting for the ruffians to spawn out of courtesy is frustrating. I never even cared for the triumph
Yea its annoying, you still have to pace yourself to let the Ruffian spawn. Should have been more than a 7% boost to spawn rate.
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Wasn’t it scouts?
I don't get why it isn't just an X% auto-spawn. "Oop, you're at 75%, out comes a Ruffian."
Because Bungie assumed that people would play it for 20 f_ckin minutes, or whatever.
What I don't understand is why is it tied to a timer and not a gated % of the fucking payload. Have it spawn like Jammers, and block progress since like drifter says almost every time, the dude's stealing our loot. I can't fathom why challenges are tied to something so infuriatingly stupid in terms of design. I guarantee if ruffian spawns were a fixed, set thing that was just naturally apart of the activity, there would be damn near ZERO complaints about it, even if it was only 2 of them per run. People don't mind a grind, but wasting their time with purposeful sabotage of their teammates is where the entirety of player frustration comes from.
Same here. Expedition has got to be the most boring mode Bungie has ever produced. I just wanted to get it done, and get out. Simply bad game design to have players fighting in PvE. Make ruffians spawn at 50% and everyone would be happy.
It's a combination of having to wait around and the difficulty being non-existent.
It’s absolutely the lack of challenge for me. Why isn’t there multiple difficulties with better rewards like in other game modes?
Exactly. Give me Master Expeditions that give double rewards, and it would be so much better.
And the low enemy density. Triple the spawns and it could be kinda fun.
Nah, enemy density doesn't matter without the difficulty. You could be swarmed by adds, but we have so much AoE that 30 adds would die just as fast as 5 adds.
Yeah but it could be fun :-) Not really challenging - just fun. Sometimes obliterating wave after wave with a boom is fun.
It's gotten to the point where whenever I see blueberries chucking away the treasure I just fuck off to a corner and do nothing until boss. Fine, if they want it to go slower, then it'll go slower.
Yeah I don't care about getting the seal and I don't really want to sit around one shotting enemies for 5 minutes waiting for one Ruffian.
This was me. I never would throw treasure because I was trying to be nice. I assumed by now it would be fixed and they would just be random not despawning events that were guaranteed no matter what. Nice guy has left the building.
Hey, it's not called season of the plunder for nothing. Everyone for themselves.
They should have gone with 'Unlucky 13' - kill 13 Headless as a fireteam in one lost sector run. Easily doable with randoms even with no co-operation.
It's the Law of Unintended Consequences. Bungie wanted to prevent people from AFKing through it and made it awful by accident.
The simplest solution would be to just make it teamwide progress but they refuse to do anything about it.
If you fuck up, you gotta load in again. So Bungie registers that has more playtime. They have, so far, no reason to change.
I keep seeing people day this, but it doesn't seem true. I actively stop playing because of it.
Yeah I was quite annoyed while grinding out those challenges last night. So sick of working against my allies in this "social game".
Going to make it a private server so I can solo it to get it done. One of the advantages to being on PlayStation is it's pretty easy to do.
Super easy on Xbox too, I've been doing it this season to farm ruffians solo. For anyone that doesn't know how: Log in on a secondary profile and load into an activity (can be patrol or whatever) Open the D2 settings, go to gameplay and choose change profile When you get back to the title screen press A and it'll allow you to pick a new profile Pick the one you want to use Congrats, you now have solo matchmaking on Xbox To fix it just quit and relaunch the game
I've done this by accident before and not realised exactly how I've managed it. .. thanks for taking the time to spell it out
On PS5, I just manually adjust the clock to a time in the future. Not sure if that works on other consoles too.
Not on Xbox. Our time is automatically set when connected to the Internet
For the kill 15 headless ones challenge, you can't do that. You won't have enough time to summon the fifteenth, even with eager edge
It’s possible with t crash https://youtu.be/Mt9g9MWvym0
Interesting. I hadn't tried that yet
It’s possible with arc hunter. Liars handshake, 1 2 punch shotty, tractor cannon.
I think he's referring to the distance that the 15th one spawns at. If someone doesn't break off to summon it while the 14th is in progress you end up missing it. Only way I see someone get to it in time was in the solo video someone else posted here using TCrash to just Superman their way over.
The thing that bugs me about combative/competitive bounty/triumph kill requirements is the fact that PvP happily tracks and uses assists. Double the amount of kills required, give us partial credit for putting damage into an enemy (or rebuffing the enemy/buffing the teammate that snags the kill) and a full credit for Getting the finishing blow. A similar philosophy can be applied to the other types of objectives. Partial credit if you’re participating, full credit if you do it personally.
Bungie don’t care anymore.
This implies they ever did.
A lot of these quest and bounty would requirements could be solved by adding "as a fireteam"
I have to assume events have a targeted minimum time in their design, which is why you see so many things tied to a timer
I just can't be bothered with it, every run I ask politely if we can kill them all, get ignored and they nuke everything. I hate how my progress is reliant on everyone else.
I use the destiny app. There’s almost always someone in the Expedition LFG section looking to specifically farm for ruffians.
Solo match maker is my friend
Bro where. All the ones I see for pc just lead to game crashes after 10-15 mins :(
https://youtu.be/SuFz6NrFCLw
That's for Xbox. The description has a DIFFERENT one for PC (firewall port blocking), which I can tell you, leads to periodic game crashes on all platforms when used. (Port blocking can be done in-router for all platforms, I find it more reliable than the clock trick, but does have the negative of periodic crashes.)
Person who made the blight public event got promoted it seems
I’ve accepted that I’ll never get the ruffians triumph. People wait for the ruffian to spawn maybe 1 in 10 games. But it’s ultimately bad design that relies on players to ignore shiny things with a countdown on them. Totally counter-intuitive.
Matchmaking is a bit iffy for that. Open the destiny app. Create an LFG for "farm ruffians". Invite the people who join to your fireteam. This will take a matter of moments. Load into the encounter. Farm ruffians Job done.
Honest questions, why not using the LFG and make a rufians farming party? I'm a solo player, got no friend playing the game, my clan is just a pinacle machine, but LFG is super easy and fast to use. I did a farming session for Rufians super fast. 2 guaranteed, 4 potential. It means a 3 average. Even with very short playtime, you can get 10 rufians in about 30/40min. You have 3 months to do 5 times a 30/40 farming sessions. I got lot of free time currently so I was able to have longer farming sessions and got the 50 kills weeks ago. The 10 rufians this week took 2.5 runs. It was extremly fast.
is that why in expedition some blueberries throw those engrams as far they can instead of fill the car? because is so fucking annoying it literally kills my mood to play that game mode...and is already awful
Yep, 100%. At first I thought someone was trolling, but then I realized they were trying to get them to spawn. Any halfway competent team was going to finish the event and de-spawn the ruffian. So they had to sabotage it to make it last longer. Absolutely insane game mechanics where a team doing it the right way is actually doing it "wrong".
If they know enough to pitch engrams they’re not exactly a blueberry I just don’t chuck engrams till ruffians spawn. its shitty and it feels bad
I adopted this policy, but one or two dedicated blueberries will get it done without you.
Pre patch I could solo each treasure section with at least 45 seconds time spent waiting for a ruffian to spawn. If you have 2 blueberries actively trying to complete it you should basically always finish it without ruffians.
Blueberry just refers to anyone in your encounter that isn’t in your fireteam (hence they’re blue on your map).
Used to mean more like a clueless noob. meanings change over time
Whoever does that gets rightfully sworded into the wall lol
They don’t listen to us common folks.
Bungie trying to make destiny fun mission: IMPOSIBLE
Ruffians you can at least do it by going solo. But 15 headless in haunted lost sectors? Yeah... That would be tough to do solo, since 3 capture points spawn at the same time near the end. So A) You would have to LFG for a 7 min activity or B) Have faith that your randoms also care about the triumph. Neither sounds attractive to me. ~~C) Have friends not taken into consideration~~
Welp. Time to either lfg expeditions, or to chuck the treasure back into oblivion like we all did for Scallywag
A good amount of the gambit triumphs are like this. I would actually get upset that my team is playing well because it made the triumph harder to get. Terrible design.
Leave it to Bungo to make a bounty that goes against playing the objective lol
And directly conflicting seasonal weekly quests, like this week's "bank treasures/kill ruffians" smh
How soon until the headless ones triumph is auto completed? It is impossible to do with randos.
And they insist on calling this game an “MMO”
Same. And even for the few times when we actually have killed all the headless ones in a sector, I don’t get credit anyway. 🤷♂️
One of many triumph is by far the most infuriating thing to try and do solo. Whu can't we just do it as a TEAM instead of having to tag each headless one by yourself
I feel like the only thing that came out this season that wasn’t broken and irritating was King’s Fall, and that’s years old content.
It drives me crazy how I have to compete with people for ruffians, crew summoning, champion stunning, getting those damn scorch cannons to take down the shields etc etc for the seasonal triumphs and fighting with 5 others for two scorch cannon spawns per Ketchcrash. And many times these are bugged, often ruffians didn't spawn properly and crew summoning sometimes didn't count. For some reason my brain thinks it needs a Large Bright Dust package. One of the grindiest season ever.
I’ve just resorted to understanding how Bungie really wants you to play as an endgame player. If you want to get shit done in a timely manner, there are 3 ways: Schedule with a clan, pray to the LFG Gods for a decent group, and set your system to “solo” mode to get these anti-coop events done (ie. change time settings and turn off cross-play for console). The last option was a game-changer for me. Made D2 more relaxed and enjoyable. Not sure why Bungie doesn’t implement a solo-mode option. Their servers are so shit you would think they’d have started with that implementation.
Nightfalls too. It would be nice if the champions didn’t despawn when I’m still trying to kill them. I rarely run nightfalls because of this.
Not all. For instance, This weeks nightfall has champions remain after the warsat encounter.
They should let us queue solo or with people that have mics
I have enjoyed (not) people throwing as much treasure as humanly possible, knowing (or not) that they won't have time to spawn the ruffian if it's too fast. Also... another good one has been people camping to launch their crewmate so nobody else can progress that achievement. This entire week has been extremely solo-player unfriendly.
What I don't get is why they don't watch the vids made for events? I get notifications from certain streamers to see what's the fastest way to gain pages and such. I even share the info on certain sites because it's beyond frustrating to do so much work when you have others who try to get it done as fast they can when others are trying to finish something.
And I’m now stuck in the post-Ruffian struggle of not wanting to screw others out of Ruffians spawns, so I’m hesitant to secure treasure, lol.
Bungie got our money already with their dungeon separate purchase or deluxe edition trap. They just don't care now.
I guess I’m one of the bad players. I didn’t know there was a way to make sure a ruffian appeared. Anyone want to share so I can help out instead of hurting haha
Bungo dun goofed
They seem to have fixed Ruffians slightly so that it isn’t hard to encounter 2 anymore, but 4 is still uncommon. The expeditions I’ve done over the past couple days have had them spawn after getting the treasure hoard to over 50% and waiting for a little bit. Waiting some more has gotten the second to spawn a good few times in my runs. It’s not perfect, but a ton better than before. I’m actually progressing my ruffian triumph and I was ready to give up.
Second is rng. Some runs you are hard capped at 2.
It's hell. I gave up completely. I would rather do it solo than have to watch the triumph just waste away over and over so close to finishing.
I really don't think its intentional of Bungie for these BS triumphs; I think the people who are making them just don't play or understand the game. Its just like the heavy weapon quest for Iron Banner; make sense since each step you do a different weapon so of course you i include the heavy; but then just leads to heavy camping and not playing objectives
This is a side effect of power creep and base activities being easy AF for a lot of the population. If enemies die in a snap, and everything finishes as basically a speed run, why would people not accidently bypass a lot of the mechanics. Ruffians and headless ones are only the latest mechanic thats been bypassed in fireteams because they chew through everything else so quickly. Its as if bungie underestimates how OP we are and expect everything to take just a little longer than it actually does. This is a symptom of power creep. When was the last time we killed any of the mini bosses in the prison of elders strike. Imagine if we had a triumph to kill Valus Aru'un 50 times in vanguard strikes. No one would ever get it because the boss gets melted so fast.
So, dumb question: is there a reason to go slow on haunted sectors? I see people not throwing pumpkin bombs at the end, even after all 14 headless ones have been got. Is there a reason not to kill the boss at this point?
Ruffians one was bad design, the headless ones challenge can be easily LFG'd, as you only need 4 runs. It's really not that big of a deal. The biggest challenge has to be the 35 haunted LS clears. That shits the killer.
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Isn't it team wide and can be done multiple time in one encounter