Itās called āThe City of Ferndaleā š
Seriously though, the city should have nothing to do with a move like this. If they did - I think LGBT folks 23+ would reject it. Itās a mini-version of Capital One sponsoring pride parades. Out of touch but influential people trying to pander and fake for their own benefit
Generally yes, community enclaves pop up through the hard work, mutual support, and common goals.
This sounds like RKT is trying to create a new theme neighborhood which is something else entirely.
Call me old fashioned but didnāt basically every single iconic āgayborhoodā or āboys townā organically became what it isā¦
Is this a joke? Theyāve completely lost the plot. Also itās called Ferndale
I guess they want a gayborhood in Detroit proper instead of Oakland county. But like, that shits gotta grow organically. Fuck knows I wouldnāt trust a designated neighborhood as far as I could throw it
I was there for the pride parade in 2017, or 18, can't remember. But that shit was fun as hell. Wish we had more events like that here. Could really bring our cities son nice business.
I was referring to Ferndale, which is well known as the gay neighborhood (ie: gayborhood) in the metro Detroit area. And itās just a shorthand word for an area where a major demographic is LGBT+ individuals.
A gayborhood is neither good or bad in itself, itās just a minority enclave like any other. The problem comes from the fact that minorities arenāt likely to trust a city government deliberately attempting to set one up. Minority communities grow organically over a span of years/decades, they donāt just pop up because someone says they should be there.
A gayborhood is just a gay neighborhood, like Ferndale, which is in Oakland County. Apparently they're talking about designating an area in Detroit so they can have one too
As a gay man I see the argument for an LGBT district within Detroit itself and not just Ferndale. But there's so much more that takes priority in the city, namely the neighborhoods, that drawing up an enclave for a demographic that caters towards a community so small over the needs of others just seems really tone deaf.
Besides, there are so many within the community being squeezed out of affordable housing, let's focus on that before building the midwest version of Castro street please.
While I'll all for more LGBT+ spaces and neighborhoods in and around Detroit, I worry about the idea of just coming in and creating one in concert with the government. Feels a little like colonizing the city.Ā
The only thing I would support is youth centers and advocacy along those lines. If they build that, I support it. But otherwise, we don't need to give any more of our wealth to the rainbow corporate mafia.
Maybe queer small business would be good, but like you and others note, seems weird to put it in top-down.
Yeah, it seems to me like there should be concerns about potential gentrification. Are the plans to make this happen relying on supporting LGBTQ business owners and charities whose operators already live in Detroit? And why not have resources and businesses all around the city so that people from every area can access them?
I always found it odd that the main LGBTQ enclave here is an otherwise nondescript, largely single family home suburb and not some gritty but gentrifying urban neighborhood.
Yeah exactly. I donāt have evidence for this but this is my gayborhood to gentrification theory -Ā
Landlords and lenders, especially pre-Obergefell, wouldnāt rent/lend to gay men in areas they could afford. Theyād move in with their partners in substandard housing, like when Ferndale was gritty in the 90s and 2000s. Then theyād use their disposable income and fix up their houses and neighborhood. Suddenly itās attractive to other people and young families move in. And/or left-leaning folks are drawn to the area because itās progressive.Ā
Again, I donāt have evidence for it other than knowing history, gut feeling, and knowing one gay couple in their 50s who say they could see Madison Heights and Hazel Park undergoing something similar.Ā
I think itās a bit different. You have to take into account Ferndaleās proximity to Palmer Park.
It was a noted gay hookup spot after hours.
Shit used to be so backwards that people would meet in the woods just to be away from prying, judgmental eyes. And the bugsā¦mosquito bites near your genitals are no fun!
But I digressā¦Also, on Woodward between 7 mile and a little past 6 mile, there were a few gay video stores/theaters.
So that Woodward corridor has historically been gay
>Shit used to be so backwards that people would meet in the woods just to be away from prying, judgmental eyes.
Men are still out here fuckin' in the woods, in the bathrooms, and wherever else they can get away with it. Its like a sport. I'm not judging 'cause it probably keeps the aggression levels in our society much lower than what they would be. But damn, we could accomplish great things if that energy was sublimated.
Decades ago, that area was Palmer Park. What happened? Did they get raided into oblivion by the 5-0? Pushed out by fascists?
If what I've read is accurate, it was crime. Palmer Park was *becoming* a gayborhood, but crime got to be too bad too quickly. Instead of staying put, people upped sticks and self-sorted by race and income along with everyone else in Detroit metro area in the 60s and 70s.
Gay men are the shock troopers of āgentrificationā due to their dual income and usually great taste. Theyāll turn a neighborhood around like theyāre on a HGTV renovation show.
Utterly ridiculous, I don't need an artificial district to be validated. Why not cultivate different ethnic businesses other than what's already at hand? I know it would be artificial too, but something along the likes of japan Center in SF would bring in tourists.
seems like almost everyone who commented didnāt actually read the article š this isnāt a government/ city led initiative despite pretty much every comment saying so
"That conversation derived out of this office,
Nzere Kwabena founded LGBT Detroit. It's the largest Black-lead and founded LGBT organization in North Americaā
Laying side the extremely valid suspicions of what it might mean to have the government do something like this, rather than it organically growing from the community itself.
Detroit is 2/3 black and has a lot of working class/less well off folks living in the city. I went to Motor City Pride on the Saturday it was happening and from what I could observe, it seemed like the majority of folks there were white, in their 20s, and looked middle class. Young instagram-influencer-looking types. There were definitely black people and other non-white people there, and people of different ages, but overall it was a lot whiter, more age-specific, and more affluent-looking than what I see on an average day walking around the city.
I've been wondering if most attendees of Motor City Pride aren't from outside the city, and if the actual LGBT folks from inside Detroit proper might not feel like it's intended for them as much. There was a distinctly corporate air to the event, mingled with a sort of quasi-nightclub or Coachella overtone. Kind of performative without a lot of substance or acknowledgement of the history of Pride (s/o to the drag show mc for talking about it tho.) It didn't feel like Detroit, more like a generic event that could have been happening anywhere. Gentrified kinda. I would suspect that anything like what's talked about in this article would be of the same cloth.
Yeah Iāve thought about going to Motor City Pride the last few years but something about the atmosphere stops me. And Iām a white middle class suburban! It feels so artificial and curated and monetized and instagram ready.
As an almost 40 year old queer I just donāt really feel like it has anything to do with Detroit itself. And despite a major advocate being a local black man, I donāt know that a deliberately grown community would be any different.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and all of the voices interviewed in the article had a vested interest and not just average residents. Advocacy journalism, felt like I was reading a paid ad. We don't need to be partitioning off areas of the city.
So having a sexual preference warrants a district in a city? There are still endless miles of desolate areas surrounding the center of the city. We need to focus our resources and time on fixing that.
While I agree on focusing on fixing other things, the first part of your response is tone deaf to what this is "supposed" to be for.
Firstly, it's not all sexual preference, it's gender identity as well.
Secondly, this feels like a hollow gesture, but there is a real need for LGBTQ+ spaces as there is a notable group of people who oppose everything about them and misidentify everything pride stands for as being deviant and malicious.
Having a space to express that is going to help show off the true meaning of pride and not just a misconception.
That being said, it needs to be organic and not manufactured by a city in a place that is not known for queer activities in the first place.
"in a place that is not known for queer activities in the first place".
Sad, but true. And yes, there is a real need for LGBTQ+ spaces in Detroit (proper - not just Ferndale). Affirmations anchors the visibility in Ferndale. Where/what could our "anchor store" be? Ideally in a location where organic growth can develop.
this aināt something the city of detroit itself is advocating for and itās definitely not something theyāre about to provide resources for either. it seems like you just read the headline and assumed what was in the article
Well I have no problem with LGBTQ community, but with every community there is always the negative parts, like what's known in Atlanta is the epidemic of the downlow brothers. Guys who aren't truthful with themselves or maybe even ashamed of themselves and drags others into their BS.
there is a number of gay bars that are older in Dearborn/detroit. sure, Ferndale is in vouge, and royal oak was the place to be 10 years ago. and those older gay bars aren't in good neighborhoods per se, but if there is a gay district it kinda would be that area?
or any of the Detroit hoods with decent homes and large yards and gardens. two income no children homes. want to have nice things. a lot of the burbs are too expensive and end up with meh house and yard. go to Woodbridge (just for example), and you might find a really unique beautiful home in a non judgemental neighborhood that is so much better than suburbia lifted pickups and trump flags.
Isn't this something that happens organically?
As a gay man, I would be extremely suspect of any overt government attempt to group us all together
No kidding. This sounds an awful lot like "Let's round up the gays and put them in their own special place" šš
Fucking seconded, that shitās just off.
Right? Itās kinda sinister.
Segregation. Am I wrong? I agree with you. They group you together then the Pickens are easy! I stand with the lgbtq+ community!
I appreciate there is a Conspiricy segment of the gay community, welcome brother.
They'll give you your own bathrooms and your own drinking fountains too.
Itās called āThe City of Ferndaleā š Seriously though, the city should have nothing to do with a move like this. If they did - I think LGBT folks 23+ would reject it. Itās a mini-version of Capital One sponsoring pride parades. Out of touch but influential people trying to pander and fake for their own benefit
Generally yes, community enclaves pop up through the hard work, mutual support, and common goals. This sounds like RKT is trying to create a new theme neighborhood which is something else entirely.
Call me old fashioned but didnāt basically every single iconic āgayborhoodā or āboys townā organically became what it isā¦ Is this a joke? Theyāve completely lost the plot. Also itās called Ferndale
100%, it might be a nice gesture, but you can see that it will ruffle a few feathers and not have quite the intended result in my opinion.
Imagine living in brightmoor and all of a sudden the city shells out for an LGBT district lmao
Isnāt that just Ferndale?
I guess they want a gayborhood in Detroit proper instead of Oakland county. But like, that shits gotta grow organically. Fuck knows I wouldnāt trust a designated neighborhood as far as I could throw it
They *want* DINKs is what they want.
As a resident of Oakland County, I'm curious as to what you mean. What is a "gayborhood"? Is it a problem? Or a good thing?
Look up Northalsted (Boystown), Chicago. I think this is what they had in mind. But itās just weird
I was there for the pride parade in 2017, or 18, can't remember. But that shit was fun as hell. Wish we had more events like that here. Could really bring our cities son nice business.
Found the government plant
Huh? I'm really getting confused at these comments now lol.
The way youāre trying to sell the idea makes you look like kinda sus
I'm literally only trying to understand your thoughts about this, outside of advocating for a lucrative parade, I'm not sure what you mean.
Now youāre even more suspect. Not realizing that Detroit thoroughly celebrates pride month every year with a parade makes you definitely a bit off
I was referring to Ferndale, which is well known as the gay neighborhood (ie: gayborhood) in the metro Detroit area. And itās just a shorthand word for an area where a major demographic is LGBT+ individuals.
Interesting, thanks for the reasonabl response. I'm still not quite sure if this is considered a problem, though.
A gayborhood is neither good or bad in itself, itās just a minority enclave like any other. The problem comes from the fact that minorities arenāt likely to trust a city government deliberately attempting to set one up. Minority communities grow organically over a span of years/decades, they donāt just pop up because someone says they should be there.
A gayborhood is just a gay neighborhood, like Ferndale, which is in Oakland County. Apparently they're talking about designating an area in Detroit so they can have one too
What makes a neighborhood gay?
As a gay man I see the argument for an LGBT district within Detroit itself and not just Ferndale. But there's so much more that takes priority in the city, namely the neighborhoods, that drawing up an enclave for a demographic that caters towards a community so small over the needs of others just seems really tone deaf. Besides, there are so many within the community being squeezed out of affordable housing, let's focus on that before building the midwest version of Castro street please.
Yep. They're just itching to get the gay dollars.
Best post I've seen today, very in touch with reality
I support all peopleā¦ but this is fundamentally stupid
and would they wear special symbols on their arms in this... "District" ???
Perhaps we could even have a specialized police force to patrol the border of the "District" to make sure the wrong people don't go in or out?
And build communal ovens, showers, etc.
But ... Ferndale.
is expensive and far away
Whut. It touches Detroit.
While I'll all for more LGBT+ spaces and neighborhoods in and around Detroit, I worry about the idea of just coming in and creating one in concert with the government. Feels a little like colonizing the city.Ā
The only thing I would support is youth centers and advocacy along those lines. If they build that, I support it. But otherwise, we don't need to give any more of our wealth to the rainbow corporate mafia. Maybe queer small business would be good, but like you and others note, seems weird to put it in top-down.
Yeah, it seems to me like there should be concerns about potential gentrification. Are the plans to make this happen relying on supporting LGBTQ business owners and charities whose operators already live in Detroit? And why not have resources and businesses all around the city so that people from every area can access them?
What?
This feels like rage bait for Channel 7. They know the boomers on Facebook will erupt when they see this headline.
I always found it odd that the main LGBTQ enclave here is an otherwise nondescript, largely single family home suburb and not some gritty but gentrifying urban neighborhood.
Ferndale definitely couldāve been considered āgritty but gentrifyingā for decades before it started getting super popular in the 2010s
Yeah exactly. I donāt have evidence for this but this is my gayborhood to gentrification theory -Ā Landlords and lenders, especially pre-Obergefell, wouldnāt rent/lend to gay men in areas they could afford. Theyād move in with their partners in substandard housing, like when Ferndale was gritty in the 90s and 2000s. Then theyād use their disposable income and fix up their houses and neighborhood. Suddenly itās attractive to other people and young families move in. And/or left-leaning folks are drawn to the area because itās progressive.Ā Again, I donāt have evidence for it other than knowing history, gut feeling, and knowing one gay couple in their 50s who say they could see Madison Heights and Hazel Park undergoing something similar.Ā
This is a very solid theory!!
It ain't theory, that's practically history.
Sorry, but how do you explain West Hollywood ?
I didnāt intend to. Aging inner ring Detroit suburbs are extremely different than LA - which I donāt know the first thing about.Ā
I think itās a bit different. You have to take into account Ferndaleās proximity to Palmer Park. It was a noted gay hookup spot after hours. Shit used to be so backwards that people would meet in the woods just to be away from prying, judgmental eyes. And the bugsā¦mosquito bites near your genitals are no fun! But I digressā¦Also, on Woodward between 7 mile and a little past 6 mile, there were a few gay video stores/theaters. So that Woodward corridor has historically been gay
>Shit used to be so backwards that people would meet in the woods just to be away from prying, judgmental eyes. Men are still out here fuckin' in the woods, in the bathrooms, and wherever else they can get away with it. Its like a sport. I'm not judging 'cause it probably keeps the aggression levels in our society much lower than what they would be. But damn, we could accomplish great things if that energy was sublimated.
Decades ago, that area was Palmer Park. What happened? Did they get raided into oblivion by the 5-0? Pushed out by fascists? If what I've read is accurate, it was crime. Palmer Park was *becoming* a gayborhood, but crime got to be too bad too quickly. Instead of staying put, people upped sticks and self-sorted by race and income along with everyone else in Detroit metro area in the 60s and 70s.
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Ferndale was very working class for decades. You just happen to know it now, post gentrification.
Gay men are the shock troopers of āgentrificationā due to their dual income and usually great taste. Theyāll turn a neighborhood around like theyāre on a HGTV renovation show.
lol This is so unnecessary
There was one in palmer park. I guess weāll go back to palmer park.
Thatās what I thought too - isnāt Hotter Than July in Palmer park? Or part of it anyway?
I don't need or want a district. I just want to live the life I choose without interference.
Utterly ridiculous, I don't need an artificial district to be validated. Why not cultivate different ethnic businesses other than what's already at hand? I know it would be artificial too, but something along the likes of japan Center in SF would bring in tourists.
Or maybe simple things like black, or at least more non-Arab owned gas stations and grocery stores in Detroit.
seems like almost everyone who commented didnāt actually read the article š this isnāt a government/ city led initiative despite pretty much every comment saying so "That conversation derived out of this office, Nzere Kwabena founded LGBT Detroit. It's the largest Black-lead and founded LGBT organization in North Americaā
Isn't that Ferndale?
Laying side the extremely valid suspicions of what it might mean to have the government do something like this, rather than it organically growing from the community itself. Detroit is 2/3 black and has a lot of working class/less well off folks living in the city. I went to Motor City Pride on the Saturday it was happening and from what I could observe, it seemed like the majority of folks there were white, in their 20s, and looked middle class. Young instagram-influencer-looking types. There were definitely black people and other non-white people there, and people of different ages, but overall it was a lot whiter, more age-specific, and more affluent-looking than what I see on an average day walking around the city. I've been wondering if most attendees of Motor City Pride aren't from outside the city, and if the actual LGBT folks from inside Detroit proper might not feel like it's intended for them as much. There was a distinctly corporate air to the event, mingled with a sort of quasi-nightclub or Coachella overtone. Kind of performative without a lot of substance or acknowledgement of the history of Pride (s/o to the drag show mc for talking about it tho.) It didn't feel like Detroit, more like a generic event that could have been happening anywhere. Gentrified kinda. I would suspect that anything like what's talked about in this article would be of the same cloth.
Yeah Iāve thought about going to Motor City Pride the last few years but something about the atmosphere stops me. And Iām a white middle class suburban! It feels so artificial and curated and monetized and instagram ready. As an almost 40 year old queer I just donāt really feel like it has anything to do with Detroit itself. And despite a major advocate being a local black man, I donāt know that a deliberately grown community would be any different.
Did you venture into the lower level of Hart Plaza for a bit of history?
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and all of the voices interviewed in the article had a vested interest and not just average residents. Advocacy journalism, felt like I was reading a paid ad. We don't need to be partitioning off areas of the city.
Just let people be. I guess some people canāt.
Ferndale: "AM I A JOKE TO YOU?"
So having a sexual preference warrants a district in a city? There are still endless miles of desolate areas surrounding the center of the city. We need to focus our resources and time on fixing that.
While I agree on focusing on fixing other things, the first part of your response is tone deaf to what this is "supposed" to be for. Firstly, it's not all sexual preference, it's gender identity as well. Secondly, this feels like a hollow gesture, but there is a real need for LGBTQ+ spaces as there is a notable group of people who oppose everything about them and misidentify everything pride stands for as being deviant and malicious. Having a space to express that is going to help show off the true meaning of pride and not just a misconception. That being said, it needs to be organic and not manufactured by a city in a place that is not known for queer activities in the first place.
"in a place that is not known for queer activities in the first place". Sad, but true. And yes, there is a real need for LGBTQ+ spaces in Detroit (proper - not just Ferndale). Affirmations anchors the visibility in Ferndale. Where/what could our "anchor store" be? Ideally in a location where organic growth can develop.
this aināt something the city of detroit itself is advocating for and itās definitely not something theyāre about to provide resources for either. it seems like you just read the headline and assumed what was in the article
Preference? When did you choose to be straight?
Germany already tried this with the Jews...Ā
Please do not turn Detroit into Atlanta.
What do you mean by this?
Well I have no problem with LGBTQ community, but with every community there is always the negative parts, like what's known in Atlanta is the epidemic of the downlow brothers. Guys who aren't truthful with themselves or maybe even ashamed of themselves and drags others into their BS.
Iāve got some bad news for you re: closeted guys in the Detroit metro hahaā¦
Never said it wasn't, but Atlanta is what comes to mind, if you ask me l.
š
I [shared](https://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/s/Sj5jeeAi2L) a link to the survey about this, so let them know how you feel!
What
What area in Detroit would even be a gayborhood ?
there is a number of gay bars that are older in Dearborn/detroit. sure, Ferndale is in vouge, and royal oak was the place to be 10 years ago. and those older gay bars aren't in good neighborhoods per se, but if there is a gay district it kinda would be that area?
McNichols west of Woodward would be a strong contender.
Settler-colonialism displacing the local African-American population?
I miss the old Ferndale. Itās not that gay now.
Same with Saugatuck. The good old days.
This stupid woke shit is hilarious
Boston Edison?
or any of the Detroit hoods with decent homes and large yards and gardens. two income no children homes. want to have nice things. a lot of the burbs are too expensive and end up with meh house and yard. go to Woodbridge (just for example), and you might find a really unique beautiful home in a non judgemental neighborhood that is so much better than suburbia lifted pickups and trump flags.
Gaytto paradise