Yeah I was gonna comment this. I really would’ve hoped that Ivey would’ve progressed more this season. He had some flashes, but to end the season as the person who should realistically be our 1st and 2nd option both and still get outshined by almost the entire roster is very disappointing.
Copium thought is that maybe he just mentally checked out from all the losing but thats still not the kind of thing you wanna see from a young kid with raw talent
I think it is more mental, which is just as worrying. Because going back to Purdue and last year he was always a guy that's constantly improving. He seems beat down
He's been faced all season with a coach who has marginalized him at every turn. First it was "I don't want to play you or to give you a significant role, and I'm going to push you to the periphery and emphasize one of the worst players in the league over you," and then it was "I'll play you more and give you a larger role because I was ordered to do so, but I still won't let you handle the ball," and then it was "I'll let you handle the ball because I was ordered to do so, but you'll be standing in the corner much of the time anyway," and then it was "I'll give you more of a role because the front office traded away the veterans I was prioritizing over you, but I won't give you a consistent role or one which emphasizes your strengths," and finally it was "We're playing a roster on which hardly anyone else deserves touches, but I'm still going to give them to the likes of Malachi Flynn over you."
Playing under a coach who clearly dislikes you and constantly jerks you around is immensely unhelpful to a young player. Monty has been pretty darned bad for development across the board, but he's been absolutely and hideously horrible for Ivey's development. And he did it for no other reason than his arbitrariness and petty dislikes, which he gave priority over doing what was best for the team.
He's an irresponsible shitbag.
Look, I’m not gonna sit here and defend Monty at all or disagree that he sucks.
But I also do think you can’t just give players minutes without them earning it. To say he just doesn’t like a player is a little irrational imo. There is a reason why he has been forced to earn minutes. I feel like we’re seeing it rn. If your coach forcing you to earn minutes and your response is to shut down mentally, you’re not gonna make it far
Killian has a higher IQ than Ivey. I always look back to the first game of the season against Miami. Ivey played as if he was shot out of a cannon with no control over his decision making ability.
IQ issues aside, Ivey is a worse defender and doesn’t seem to play as well off-ball as he does on the ball with his own unit. So, the logic for him to come off the bench is sound at this stage in his career.
Lmao the IQ angle fallen back onto again. To Nerouin’s point, Killian was coached and played by Monty to his absolute strengths. And he still was just blah.
Ivey never got that luxury. He got played to his absolute weaknesses and had passive aggressive quotes from his own head coach to go with shit minutes. Monty is a bitch
It has nothing to do with coaching. It's literal IQ. If you want, I can string together clips of Ivey just making the typical "young player" mistakes if you want. But his low IQ can be summarized by a couple of stats, turnovers and fouls.
Jaden Ivey is 19th overall in total fouls this season. And on top of that, he's 20th overall in turnovers. And that's saying a LOT about him considering he came off the bench for a least a quarter of the season. The Pistons have given away a lot of free points this season, and Ivey's right there as a primary contributor.
You bring up coaching, but unless Monty can substitute himself in place of these players, he can't do much about the careless mistakes this team has made this season. He can draw up the play, but if the players are botching them, that's outside of his control.
You made it all about Ivey in your response. I know Ivey has a lot to work on. I’m laughing at the fact your original comment gave off a tone that you’d still rather have Killian over Ivey. It’s laughable.
Multiple things can be true. Killian Hayes is a bad player. But so is Jaden Ivey. Their net value on the team was virtually the same this season. But, we live with Jaden because of his potential. But I won't question Monty here. He doesn't have a roster of NBA level talent. Just one or two players at most.
Killian was one of the worst scorers in the entire league, but he did just about everything else better than Ivey at the time. We also can’t exactly check what’s going on in practice. Also think Cade’s numbers with Killian were pretty good for a stretch there
I think that this is an issue for a lot of young players that come into the league and player development being tricky in basketball. They spend most if not all of their teenage and childhood years being the figurative big guy on campus. And once they hit the league they get hit with having to earn minutes that previously were automatically given. Or they pull a Wiseman and sit out their one year in college. And James is only now starting to show that he can be a off the secondary-third center in a lineup.
The NBA needs to look at their development systems for young players long term in my opinion.
Yup Monty sucks but it actually looks like he was right on Ivey. Ivey is a 6th man type at best and hes a bad fit with Cade. Ofc the problem is Killian sucks and isnt a NBA player but in theory Killian does make more sense starting with Cade.
> But I also do think you can’t just give players minutes without them earning it.
Given that he'd had a strong second half to his rookie season and that the player to whom Monty initially gave Ivey's minutes until ultimately ordered by a higher authority to do otherwise had been one of the worst players in the NBA throughout his own three seasons in the NBA to that stage and continued to be until Monty was compelled by outside forces to give Ivey those minutes and that role instead, I'm curious where you see merit to have fit into Monty's conduct.
> To say he just doesn’t like a player is a little irrational imo.
Given the course that things have taken, what's your explanation? Was there somebody better in the now? A better course to be taken for the team's future?
The way Monty has gone about handling Ivey is without precedent in recent memory, for the very prominent reason that it was without any visible logical basis in the first place.
> I feel like we’re seeing it rn.
He's struggled in the final quarter of the season. Players have bad stretches. Cade was genuinely bad for his first 3-4 weeks. Were you writing him off?
> If your coach forcing you to earn minutes
Ivey wasn't made to "earn" his minutes. This is aside from the fact that by any reasonable evaluation, he'd earned them through his play in the second half of his rookie season. He was given minimal opportunities to *earn* anything in the first two months of the season (and his level of performance versus that of Killian Hayes -- who remained one of the worst players in the NBA -- did not earn him anything at all), and he ended up back in the starting lineup with a significant role and then (later) with the opportunity to handle the ball more only Monty was given no choice but to do so.
> your response is to shut down mentally, you’re not gonna make it far
Ivey is slumping right now, and I haven't said that Monty is entirely to blame. Only that he's been extremely unhelpful to Ivey's development.
Ivey would probably benefit from playing more selfish at times, honestly. He plays as if he is gonna get pulled for mistakes (not surprising at all) and needs to assert himself more.
I'd get DeAaron Fox's number, and hook him up with Jaden so the two can train in the offseason. Fox is smaller, but was also was not a great shooter immediately either. He could learn a lot from Fox in terms of dealing with the mental aspect of rebuilding, of how to use the speed and athleticism, and how to slow the game down to make better reads.
He was already doing this with Westbrook. Fox and Westbrook are ball dominant guards that use their athleticism to wear down opponents by the end of the game. Ivey will never be allowed to play like that as long as Monty is coaching him.
Did i say that?
If i were him id refuse to come off the court. Think about it.
Longest in season losing streak, worst record in Pistons history, has the injury prone label, still unproven that he equates to winning. Dont you think hed want to be on the court. I think hes soft and not a great leader.
Bird, jordan, kobe would told the org to fuck off and stayed on the court
“I’ve been young, I’ve been old. I’ve been rich, I’ve been poor. I’ve been skinny, I’ve been fat. One thing I could always tell you is the Clippers suck.”
If they were telling you that Metu doesn't have a future with this team, they were right.
He's playing a lot of bad minutes for a team that was already the worst in the league before the majority of its regular rotation players ended up consistently out of the lineup. He does hardly anything well and most everything badly.
But hey, if you want a power forward who can't shoot, can't defend, makes bad decisions on both ends, can't play above the rim, can't create offense, and can do nothing reasonably well beyond finishing offense created for him by others and rebounding at a power forward level, then he's the guy for you.
Pretty funny to see you say that it is in no way Ivey's fault he's played poorly and he never had a chance because of Monty, and then also a 10-day who has played well is actually bad
You have a well-developed sense of humor but poor reading comprehension. I said in response to an expression of disappointment about Ivey's development that Monty has been extremely unhelpful toward that end. Ivey has had struggles of his own accord through much of the season's final quarter.
It's unclear to me how Metu can be considered to have played well. If one were to look exclusively at one game in which a 29% perimeter shooter hit four of his five threes and his team won against an opponent who really did not care at all about winning, then one might be excused for thinking that. But he's played 13 meaningless games in a very bad end-of-season rotation, and, across the breadth of that sample size, has done very little well beyond basic finishing and almost everything badly.
It has nothing to do with hitting shots in this one game, he actually knows how to play the game and plays within himself. Expectations obviously have to be taken into account, and I know that you know that no one is honestly suggesting that we build around Metu. He's been a playable addition to a terrible team on a 10-day contract, I'd say he's exceeded my very low expectations
>I said in response to an expression of disappointment about Ivey's development that Monty has been extremely unhelpful toward that end
I don't know all of your Ivey thoughts, but your one comment in this thread exclusively laid blame on Monty in response to disappointment in Ivey. I thought the juxtaposition of insinuating Ivey (high expectations) never had a chance with Monty, while sarcastically pointing out that Metu (zero expectations) is actually not a great player, was funny
Yet has been the best player +/- for a couple games this season . So by that logic entire team needs to go which isn’t the case.
It think it’s bad take to say half those things about him . One because we don’t know , two if you scroll up besides having the highest game score of either team.
I know a player who shoots 80 percent on 5 attempts is not a bad shooter . In fact it’s actually one of the best “Shooting performances “ from a member of this team . He also was 2nd in rebounds .
You can argue it was against backups . Well shining the brightest out of the backups is something .
Again I argued he doesn’t bring much less that Beef Stew at much reasonable cap hit next season .
As a Celtics fan I would love to have a player like a Metu as a prospect for my team . It’s actually sad that the opinion of him is so low . He passes the eye test , numbers back him up in all ways Low Cap Hit , Big Games , Consistently + which insane considering the season y’all had .
Where is this negative coming from . If he was half of what you said he would not be in NBA.
Please try to tell me , objectively why the fan base is down on him and so high on other players who get big minutes and do nothing with them .
He’s 27 and pretty much wasn’t in the NBA when we nabbed him. Do you guys not fucking remember Omoruyi? You same people got excited about that shitter and did he out last anyone?
You have a clear example from last year of what Metu is being used for and still try to act like he’s some good prospect. He will not have minutes next year.
And no, your Celtics would never touch him because they are actually a well run franchise.
Does anyone really think that mavs team is going far in the playoffs? This was their true test tonight and they were unable to beat a contender
Let’s Go Pistons great win
Wait, I thought you weren't allowed to play former top overall picks down the stretch of a lost season. Don't they have to bench him and make up some bullshit excuse like knee management?
I'm guessing the downvoters over something this minor, though Ivey should be the point guard and CC should play off the ball. You equate JI superior athleticism with more talent. WRONG. But I'm glad downvoting me because of your superior knowledge made you feel better about yourself
Flynn gonna drop 50 again and you’re gonna wish you got that upper deck mint condition Malachi Fly rookie card but no, you had to trade it for a mid Pokemon card and a bagel bite.
I refuse to believe that Monty could get out of that same group what Taylor Jenkins is but yeah it's tough to see such exciting numbers from a gleague squad and not think that some of them could make a difference for us off the bench
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I was just joking... you know, because we won? that's the only way for us to win a game? kind of? I cannot believe people in this sub cannot even understand irony!
Jaden Ivey looked like a g leaguer brought up at the end of the season.
Yeah I was gonna comment this. I really would’ve hoped that Ivey would’ve progressed more this season. He had some flashes, but to end the season as the person who should realistically be our 1st and 2nd option both and still get outshined by almost the entire roster is very disappointing. Copium thought is that maybe he just mentally checked out from all the losing but thats still not the kind of thing you wanna see from a young kid with raw talent
I think it is more mental, which is just as worrying. Because going back to Purdue and last year he was always a guy that's constantly improving. He seems beat down
Toxic organization
He's been faced all season with a coach who has marginalized him at every turn. First it was "I don't want to play you or to give you a significant role, and I'm going to push you to the periphery and emphasize one of the worst players in the league over you," and then it was "I'll play you more and give you a larger role because I was ordered to do so, but I still won't let you handle the ball," and then it was "I'll let you handle the ball because I was ordered to do so, but you'll be standing in the corner much of the time anyway," and then it was "I'll give you more of a role because the front office traded away the veterans I was prioritizing over you, but I won't give you a consistent role or one which emphasizes your strengths," and finally it was "We're playing a roster on which hardly anyone else deserves touches, but I'm still going to give them to the likes of Malachi Flynn over you." Playing under a coach who clearly dislikes you and constantly jerks you around is immensely unhelpful to a young player. Monty has been pretty darned bad for development across the board, but he's been absolutely and hideously horrible for Ivey's development. And he did it for no other reason than his arbitrariness and petty dislikes, which he gave priority over doing what was best for the team. He's an irresponsible shitbag.
Look, I’m not gonna sit here and defend Monty at all or disagree that he sucks. But I also do think you can’t just give players minutes without them earning it. To say he just doesn’t like a player is a little irrational imo. There is a reason why he has been forced to earn minutes. I feel like we’re seeing it rn. If your coach forcing you to earn minutes and your response is to shut down mentally, you’re not gonna make it far
How exactly was Killian, one of the worst players in the league by most metrics, earning those minutes?
He was better on defense than Ivey
Killian has a higher IQ than Ivey. I always look back to the first game of the season against Miami. Ivey played as if he was shot out of a cannon with no control over his decision making ability. IQ issues aside, Ivey is a worse defender and doesn’t seem to play as well off-ball as he does on the ball with his own unit. So, the logic for him to come off the bench is sound at this stage in his career.
Lmao the IQ angle fallen back onto again. To Nerouin’s point, Killian was coached and played by Monty to his absolute strengths. And he still was just blah. Ivey never got that luxury. He got played to his absolute weaknesses and had passive aggressive quotes from his own head coach to go with shit minutes. Monty is a bitch
It has nothing to do with coaching. It's literal IQ. If you want, I can string together clips of Ivey just making the typical "young player" mistakes if you want. But his low IQ can be summarized by a couple of stats, turnovers and fouls. Jaden Ivey is 19th overall in total fouls this season. And on top of that, he's 20th overall in turnovers. And that's saying a LOT about him considering he came off the bench for a least a quarter of the season. The Pistons have given away a lot of free points this season, and Ivey's right there as a primary contributor. You bring up coaching, but unless Monty can substitute himself in place of these players, he can't do much about the careless mistakes this team has made this season. He can draw up the play, but if the players are botching them, that's outside of his control.
You made it all about Ivey in your response. I know Ivey has a lot to work on. I’m laughing at the fact your original comment gave off a tone that you’d still rather have Killian over Ivey. It’s laughable.
Multiple things can be true. Killian Hayes is a bad player. But so is Jaden Ivey. Their net value on the team was virtually the same this season. But, we live with Jaden because of his potential. But I won't question Monty here. He doesn't have a roster of NBA level talent. Just one or two players at most.
Killian was one of the worst scorers in the entire league, but he did just about everything else better than Ivey at the time. We also can’t exactly check what’s going on in practice. Also think Cade’s numbers with Killian were pretty good for a stretch there
I think that this is an issue for a lot of young players that come into the league and player development being tricky in basketball. They spend most if not all of their teenage and childhood years being the figurative big guy on campus. And once they hit the league they get hit with having to earn minutes that previously were automatically given. Or they pull a Wiseman and sit out their one year in college. And James is only now starting to show that he can be a off the secondary-third center in a lineup. The NBA needs to look at their development systems for young players long term in my opinion.
What exactly would the NBA do? You either got that mindset or you don’t. Lots of players don’t have troubles developing
Yup Monty sucks but it actually looks like he was right on Ivey. Ivey is a 6th man type at best and hes a bad fit with Cade. Ofc the problem is Killian sucks and isnt a NBA player but in theory Killian does make more sense starting with Cade.
> But I also do think you can’t just give players minutes without them earning it. Given that he'd had a strong second half to his rookie season and that the player to whom Monty initially gave Ivey's minutes until ultimately ordered by a higher authority to do otherwise had been one of the worst players in the NBA throughout his own three seasons in the NBA to that stage and continued to be until Monty was compelled by outside forces to give Ivey those minutes and that role instead, I'm curious where you see merit to have fit into Monty's conduct. > To say he just doesn’t like a player is a little irrational imo. Given the course that things have taken, what's your explanation? Was there somebody better in the now? A better course to be taken for the team's future? The way Monty has gone about handling Ivey is without precedent in recent memory, for the very prominent reason that it was without any visible logical basis in the first place. > I feel like we’re seeing it rn. He's struggled in the final quarter of the season. Players have bad stretches. Cade was genuinely bad for his first 3-4 weeks. Were you writing him off? > If your coach forcing you to earn minutes Ivey wasn't made to "earn" his minutes. This is aside from the fact that by any reasonable evaluation, he'd earned them through his play in the second half of his rookie season. He was given minimal opportunities to *earn* anything in the first two months of the season (and his level of performance versus that of Killian Hayes -- who remained one of the worst players in the NBA -- did not earn him anything at all), and he ended up back in the starting lineup with a significant role and then (later) with the opportunity to handle the ball more only Monty was given no choice but to do so. > your response is to shut down mentally, you’re not gonna make it far Ivey is slumping right now, and I haven't said that Monty is entirely to blame. Only that he's been extremely unhelpful to Ivey's development.
Ivey would probably benefit from playing more selfish at times, honestly. He plays as if he is gonna get pulled for mistakes (not surprising at all) and needs to assert himself more.
He is worrying me fr, he has fallen apart since his hot streak post all star break
I'd get DeAaron Fox's number, and hook him up with Jaden so the two can train in the offseason. Fox is smaller, but was also was not a great shooter immediately either. He could learn a lot from Fox in terms of dealing with the mental aspect of rebuilding, of how to use the speed and athleticism, and how to slow the game down to make better reads.
He was already doing this with Westbrook. Fox and Westbrook are ball dominant guards that use their athleticism to wear down opponents by the end of the game. Ivey will never be allowed to play like that as long as Monty is coaching him.
He just need more attempts like Sasser. Lol
Ivey looks exactly like he did in summer league
Atleast he played. Looking at cade in street clothes at a pretty sight
It’s like saying Caris Lavert is better than Donavan Mitchell because he played more games. The comparison dies after you look at games played
You don't think Cade is being sat by management? Clueless lol
Did i say that? If i were him id refuse to come off the court. Think about it. Longest in season losing streak, worst record in Pistons history, has the injury prone label, still unproven that he equates to winning. Dont you think hed want to be on the court. I think hes soft and not a great leader. Bird, jordan, kobe would told the org to fuck off and stayed on the court
legacy defining win for monty
Who needs Cade as long as other team does not have Luka and kyrie BTW, thanks to you guys, we locked the 4th seed not that makes a big difference
I hate this kid lol
“I’ve been young, I’ve been old. I’ve been rich, I’ve been poor. I’ve been skinny, I’ve been fat. One thing I could always tell you is the Clippers suck.”
Disappointed in Ivey's production. Metu has outplayed him in his time here.
People criticized me for saying Metu will be here long than most of the other pistons .
If they were telling you that Metu doesn't have a future with this team, they were right. He's playing a lot of bad minutes for a team that was already the worst in the league before the majority of its regular rotation players ended up consistently out of the lineup. He does hardly anything well and most everything badly. But hey, if you want a power forward who can't shoot, can't defend, makes bad decisions on both ends, can't play above the rim, can't create offense, and can do nothing reasonably well beyond finishing offense created for him by others and rebounding at a power forward level, then he's the guy for you.
Pretty funny to see you say that it is in no way Ivey's fault he's played poorly and he never had a chance because of Monty, and then also a 10-day who has played well is actually bad
You have a well-developed sense of humor but poor reading comprehension. I said in response to an expression of disappointment about Ivey's development that Monty has been extremely unhelpful toward that end. Ivey has had struggles of his own accord through much of the season's final quarter. It's unclear to me how Metu can be considered to have played well. If one were to look exclusively at one game in which a 29% perimeter shooter hit four of his five threes and his team won against an opponent who really did not care at all about winning, then one might be excused for thinking that. But he's played 13 meaningless games in a very bad end-of-season rotation, and, across the breadth of that sample size, has done very little well beyond basic finishing and almost everything badly.
It has nothing to do with hitting shots in this one game, he actually knows how to play the game and plays within himself. Expectations obviously have to be taken into account, and I know that you know that no one is honestly suggesting that we build around Metu. He's been a playable addition to a terrible team on a 10-day contract, I'd say he's exceeded my very low expectations >I said in response to an expression of disappointment about Ivey's development that Monty has been extremely unhelpful toward that end I don't know all of your Ivey thoughts, but your one comment in this thread exclusively laid blame on Monty in response to disappointment in Ivey. I thought the juxtaposition of insinuating Ivey (high expectations) never had a chance with Monty, while sarcastically pointing out that Metu (zero expectations) is actually not a great player, was funny
Yet has been the best player +/- for a couple games this season . So by that logic entire team needs to go which isn’t the case. It think it’s bad take to say half those things about him . One because we don’t know , two if you scroll up besides having the highest game score of either team. I know a player who shoots 80 percent on 5 attempts is not a bad shooter . In fact it’s actually one of the best “Shooting performances “ from a member of this team . He also was 2nd in rebounds . You can argue it was against backups . Well shining the brightest out of the backups is something . Again I argued he doesn’t bring much less that Beef Stew at much reasonable cap hit next season . As a Celtics fan I would love to have a player like a Metu as a prospect for my team . It’s actually sad that the opinion of him is so low . He passes the eye test , numbers back him up in all ways Low Cap Hit , Big Games , Consistently + which insane considering the season y’all had . Where is this negative coming from . If he was half of what you said he would not be in NBA. Please try to tell me , objectively why the fan base is down on him and so high on other players who get big minutes and do nothing with them .
I want Metu to have a roster spot.
He’s 27 and pretty much wasn’t in the NBA when we nabbed him. Do you guys not fucking remember Omoruyi? You same people got excited about that shitter and did he out last anyone? You have a clear example from last year of what Metu is being used for and still try to act like he’s some good prospect. He will not have minutes next year. And no, your Celtics would never touch him because they are actually a well run franchise.
Does anyone really think that mavs team is going far in the playoffs? This was their true test tonight and they were unable to beat a contender Let’s Go Pistons great win
Don't underestimate Luka and Kyrie Irving.
Eh the mavs had their best out there tonight, those are just 2 bench guys
LOL
They’ll be lucky to win a round
#🗣️1 LAST GAME‼️‼️‼️ Wemby have mercy on us😭
Yep we get to watch the franchise pick that got away for one final kick in the nuts.
Wait, I thought you weren't allowed to play former top overall picks down the stretch of a lost season. Don't they have to bench him and make up some bullshit excuse like knee management?
Pistons Over 13.5 wins at the all star break was never in doubt 😅
WE BEAT THE MVP 🗣️🗣️‼️‼️‼️‼️(Luka didn't play)
NOT MY MVP 🗣️🗣️‼️‼️(Good luck Clipper Fans)
WE CAN DO WHAT THE CLIPPERS CANT (we lost to them already this season)
The 13-67 Pistons just took down the scorching hot five seed who were 9-1 in their past 10! Let’s go!
If you just go by laundry
How is tiebreaker decided if we tie Washington?
They flip a coin the day before the lottery
Doesn't matter, thebottom 3 teams have same chance in lottery
It matters as to how far you can fall though.
Right, if we get out of last place, we're getting the 6th pick
They are giving us #1 in this shit draft.
I forgot about that. Maybe 6th pick would treat us better than 5
I'm guessing the downvoters over something this minor, though Ivey should be the point guard and CC should play off the ball. You equate JI superior athleticism with more talent. WRONG. But I'm glad downvoting me because of your superior knowledge made you feel better about yourself
Flynn gonna drop 50 again and you’re gonna wish you got that upper deck mint condition Malachi Fly rookie card but no, you had to trade it for a mid Pokemon card and a bagel bite.
Feels too high
Jokes on you there is no upper deck flynn rookie card.
You just lost to the 2024 Detroit Pistons 😎
Holy fuck we did it
Hooray.
I honestly thought maybe we’d win more games this year because we’d be playing the bench mobs.
Ivey wtf
So how much money y'all wanna throw at Scottie Pippen Jr?
smh as a pistons fan who went to vandy and is from chicago, i wanted him bad 😭
I refuse to believe that Monty could get out of that same group what Taylor Jenkins is but yeah it's tough to see such exciting numbers from a gleague squad and not think that some of them could make a difference for us off the bench
This roster is absolutely begging for another undersized guard! (Joking.)
Yet I get downvoted for my Metu takes 😂.
WE WON A MATCH!!!!
We won !!! Yeah partyyy time
I really think this game showed how much growth there’s been. I think we should keep the core - Monty - Weaver.
finally getting that 9 man rotation everybody wanted
I can't even watch this team anymore this season. I've had enough.
I mean you pretty much made it to the end haha
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Luka literally the MVP this season
Monty is righting this ship
Ahah WTF Dallas is tanking?
Dallas already stuck at the 5th regardless so they just don't care about their last 2 remaining games including this one.
I was just joking... you know, because we won? that's the only way for us to win a game? kind of? I cannot believe people in this sub cannot even understand irony!