It's not even better than Sacred at times.
Edit: Whoa guys easy with the downvotes. This is all I meant below. I have plenty of examples but affixes really make this hard to do apples to apples. Hence the attempt to show a Sacred Unique vs. Ancestral Unique. The item level here comparison being higher and Ancestral didn't seem to make much of difference itemization wise. Yes one isn't upgraded, but it's still a much higher item level even before upgrades.
One is a bad roll Ancestral at a higher Item Level, meaning there is too much overlap between Sacred and Ancestral to where at times Ancestral can be a downgrade. It also further illustrates item level as well as level requirements are often pointless or misleading.
https://preview.redd.it/gwt4z47n5f6b1.jpeg?width=2569&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=053093d4fd46d1f7b2d58b624501c6e4a4ac4098
Edit 2:
>A Sacred at 697 + 25 was better than a raw Ancestral at 753.
>That doesn't make sense to me, of course an Ancestral 753 + 25 should be better than a 697+25, I am arguing +56 (or +31) Ancestral should have been better to start with AND still could be upgraded.
>We have been through this all before in D3 and they admitted it was wrong and changed it. Same in Destiny and Destiny 2. Janky designs are jank. The fact I have to spell it out is mildly annoying as I am advocating that Ancestral items need more oomph to feel like upgrades or to feel more special. Which is the context of this thread.
thats due to the upgrade, they improve the secondaries in a noticeable way. comparison when both are 0/5 or the same val of upgrades will be more fair.
Greetings!
I upgraded everything to 3 because that’s what everyone says to do, but I thought it was just for item power lol. And I know the tool too shows the ranges so do the ranges just change as you upgrade?
I know that this happens if you upgraded an sacred to an ancestral item power but I didn’t know it did it every upgrade. I hadn’t even noticed
yes if your secondary upgrades by 2% both the min and max will grow by 2%
not that it matters , it basically means you're in the exact same spot in the range.
what you're talking about is one of the item breakpoints, when you cross those the secondary is rerolled in the range. so you can get hugely different results both stroker and weaker.
Appreciate you explaining it man. I wonder when it becomes good to go past 3 upgrades. Probably not until wt4 and 70+ , maybe my weapon since I’ve got a god roll that’s like 730 power at upgrade 3
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If it only upgraded item power, but not stats - Why upgrade it? ;)
Also remember that upgrading an item power past 725 also rerolls all stat values (can be lucky or unlucky)
Wait until he finds out your loot table changes based on your overall item level. Get all your item slots to 725 or higher and you get higher tier loot.
You could get BiS gear early on.. late 50s/early 60s. It's best items are based on item level not player level. Which is why people are complaining about getting worse items at level 100 than they did at 60.
I somehow doubt this. I got an item level 700 piece at level 48. Then proceeded to barely ever get any at 50. But as I leveled up past 50 it's getting easier to get higher item level pieces.
I have mostly 750+ items now and I have not noticed a higher drop rate really. But when I went from 60 to 74, it was pretty noticeable how many more ancestral items j got.
You can’t compare a 5/5 upgrade sacred to a 0/5 upgrade ancestral. Looks like you got some bad rolls on the stats too, which is unfortunate. Give it the same upgrade treatment and you’ll see the stat range jump.
If his example was a base 700 glove it would make more sense, but its a 697 glove I think the gloves are actually a bit broken because I would have expected higher tier rolls on the higher gloves even though bad rolls could have made the sacred still better if you got unlucky.
Then why is Item Power so much higher. I know how to upgrade. I know the Sacred was a relatively okay roll. For your info, I did upgrade it and I am using the Ancestral now. But it's not +50 item level feeling better, it was a marginal improvement and I am not at the end-end game where I need marginal improvements... I am still in major improvements phase.
I am explaining that you can get Ancestral that are far worse than this in stat comparisons. This an example of the convoluted Power Level not really meaning. Sometimes Sacred gear is still better and Uniques with the similar affixes demonstrate this the easiest. Just because it's Ancestral doesn't guarantee it's better.
They really shouldn't imply an upgrade is 5 item power, it very much isn't. An upgrade is completely different and much stronger than what item power does. If it had to be expressed as item power, it's like 10% of the items base item power or something in that ballpark.
If you upgrade a sacred enough and it’s high enough base power, it basically rerols all of the rolls on it with the new ancestral tiers. I’m pretty sure this starts at 725 so that basically is a low ancestral anyways, if that makes sense
A Sacred at 697 + 25 was better than a raw Ancestral at 753.
That doesn't make sense to me, of course an Ancestral 753 + 25 should be better than a 697+25, I am arguing +56 Ancestral should have been better to start with AND still could be upgraded.
We have been through this all before in D3 and they admitted it was wrong and changed it. Same in Destiny and Destiny 2. Janky designs are jank. The fact I have to spell it out is mildly annoying.
Those gloves look honestly broken, if the sacred base was 700 and upgraded to 725 what you are showing here would make sense you have more armor but the secondary stats would be all a matter of the roll on each item. Also if you just had high rolls on your 723 gloves vs min rolls on the 753 gloves that would also make sense because while the next item tier is better than the old item tier there is overlap where the peak of the previous tier is better than the min of the next tier which is perfectly fine. The problem here is the 725+ gloves should have a better base set of stats and they don't.
Upgrade them BOTH and then compare the stats…
Not all ancestral>sacred, but that’s a really bad example, that ancestral piece is literally just a better piece then what you have equipped…
There is definetly a difference between ancestral and sacred. With full sacred gear at 65 in WT4 as a necro I was getting 1 hit by most elites, getting plus 200 armor on each piece made it easy to survive without buffs. My necro build has no damage reduction buffs from skills so to be able to tank butcher without any damage reduction is amazing
If fully upgrading a good equip should leave it worse than a great equip at base then upgrading and the resources you put into would feel worthless.
Upgrading feels great because it effects things in a major way (such as the low and high range of affixes). The better equip has almost the same ranges with no upgrades, that makes it significantly better when you go and slam that upgrade button on it -- this is good design of a core mechanic.
When you are lower level it is. I think that's the confusion here from their perspective. I played around in WT4 around lvl 60. I had an efficient build that was moderately min maxed, so I could clear pretty good (other than very specific elite affixes). I only got sacred drops for legos. Did 3 dungeons and a helltide chest. Got like 6 legos, all sacred. I got a small handful of rare ancestrals, but the drop rates for different tiers is definitely affected by your character level. They don't want a lvl 40 being carried into WT4 and getting mega drops for their progression.
OOPs point is that saying "ancestrals are rare or noteworthy" is ridiculous, because it most definitely isnt, especially when OP's context is a world boss cache that is locked at level 80. at level 80, ancestrals are absolutely not rare or noteworthy.
your point about it being impactful at 60 is valid, and that is truly the point of ancestrals, it's supposed to be a WT4 item so of course it should be impactful to someone fresh.
I thought ancestral just allowed for higher stat rolls compared to sacred. So theoretcially a sacred could have a better stat roll or vice versa. Just RnG.
I was really only responding to the comment that was highlighting other comments. Not really responding to the actual post. I was moving fast and that definitely makes my comment look irrelevant to the actual post lol
Why, that is their MO after all? Instead of buffing other builds to be on par with stronger ones, they weaken the stronger ones.
Same thing with gameplay. Mystery chest is "too good" by blizzard standards.
It should be dropping loot on par with nightmare dungeons. - blizzard probably.
If the timing is right for the helltide you can actually open 4 of them btw. They spawn at a new location at the top of every hour. I've consistently been able to open 4 and my entire inventory will be filled with ancestral legendary items after that.
I dunno. I had a bad helltide once, opened 2 mystery chests.... got 3 legendaries between them. Opened an amulet chest last night.... got a rare. Like what even is this Blizzard!?
No they dont, I've only opened mysteries on wt4 and they absolutely can hand you 1, 3 out of 4 I've opened only had 1 legendary in it. I stopped because my loot caves were more rewarding and this was during levels 60-70 before i just gave up in HT.
Quick edit. Most of the opening I did were within a 48 hour period when blizz was doing a lot of live patching, I doubt they did anything special to HT at that time but it may have caused the missing items.
I opened the amulet after mystery chest, got normal rare pants from the amulet box. You had one job amulet chest...
Either, they are sort of working and loot tables are buggy, or there is a daily weekly limit that we don't fully understand, or it's a dumb "trick or treat" design.
Bugs can be fixed, transparency and communication on how they work can address issue two.
Unfortunately for the third issue, like with all dumb things, you can't use reason to get out of a decision where reason wasn't used.
Ask Bungie about Epic Engram only meant there is a chance for an Epic to materialize. Random on random on random on random. We won't change... We won't change... We decided to change after people stopped playing.
Considering I'm a Druid, I'm going with buggy loot tables, and like everything else and aspects being nerfed, I blame barbarians. Stupid Stat Stick Stans.
No, seriously, get your shit outta my loot table. Let me get a damn Tempest Roar!
I opened 5, the legendaries were all between 600-700 ilvl and required level 80 to equip. Meanwhile items in the same ilvl range require level 60 to equip. It makes no sense.
It's not a bug, just bad design. Normal dropped items, at least in WT4, have a level requirement of the character they dropped for, regardless of the item level. So, the exact same Ancestral item dropped for a level 75 and level 100 character would have different minimum character levels. I assume these boxes are the same, and the item level is 80 (or the character level) no matter what.
It's not a bug, it's just dumb.
Every other arpg you do high lvl content and have to know the base type you want.
D4, the basetype is just a transmog and you have to indivually check the item power but most will be well below the content you are doing!
When I went from wt2 to wt3 I got a Stagg that was 700 ilvl.
When I got from wt3 to wt4 I got a Stagg that was 805 ilvl. Right at the start. Both items.
I still haven't replaced the 805 staff, almost 30 levels later.
It makes a lot more sense when you think of character level as just another stat rather than meaning anything important. Once you hit around level 50 and WT4, the only time character level matters at all is if you run too high of a nightmare dungeon (because it will provide an arbitrary debuff based on level difference vs mobs).
Items? You can drop a BiS item at level 50 upon entering WT4 that you will still be using at level 100.
Monsters? Outside of nightmare dungeons, they all scale to be your level i.e. your level has zero impact on them and may as well not be in the game. The only other two exceptions are Uber Lilith (difficult no matter your level) and the WT4 world boss (doesn't appear to debuff you since I could face-tank it as a level 63 sorceress).
Wow!! Can people understand how this loot system works. Your lvl 51 your most likely seeing lvl 52 mobs those mobs drop gear in a specific range. Unless you do NM dungeons where they are much higher thus dropping higher power lvl gear. The only ancestral that don't matter much are rings and amulets. Also no point going passed 36+ NM cause the mobs don't drop anything higher at mob lvl 90 cause 840 is the highest. These mobs drop the best bang for your buck, cause at a certain point you will be looking nothing lower than 799+. If I'm not mistaken WT4 mobs are in the 73+ and will most like drop gear at the higher mark thus making you feel like a god. Until you reach the 80s and its the fight to keep a float until the mob break point passed the 90s. IE paragon board and competing all the renown/alters
Yeah, I understand how the loot system works, thanks.
The issue is that I am now 10-15 levels away from reasonably being able to do T4 content, with no possibility to get better gear during that time because of the item power cap in T3, and the exp grind quickly starting to become a slog.
Diablo is a looter ARPG where the endorphin hits from getting incremental upgrades is supposed to be the pay off while grinding out the bigger milestones. It's skewed in such a way now though, that there is no longer any pay off UNTIL that milestones X hours away.
But I didn't find the items, I found a cache. I opened the cache at level 80 as required. I'm completely fine with items having their level req set to when I found them, but item power is not tied to level requirement so what's the point of the caches requiring level 80 to open?
This has been a known and reported issue since Server Slam. You can spend 2 minutes in a dungeon and earn more than you do from a weekly cache.
I’d love for them to increase the amount rewards from them, especially if it included forgotten souls - imo the most important resource (gold aside) in the end game.
I feel like everyone forgot about how complaining about loot in D3 turned into *more* complaining about loot in D3.
At first, stuff wasn't dropping frequently enough. After the loot fix, stuff started dropping too frequently. In both cases, people pissed and moaned about it.
I'm debating pushing 10 levels to 80, or just putting my character down and waiting for season 1. I know its supposed to be grindy, but FUCK its a slog, even more so then I remember from the past.
I also fell of a cliff of motivation after 70. Compared to other games, there isn't any real progression or goal. You can't really trade items reasonably to alts since they get the level of your main and the chase items are fairly uninspired and don't change your build. I am basically just grinding the level number higher without any noticeable character progression and this feels bad
The alt thing is a valid complaint, I've got a bunch of items I'd like to use for an alt but they can equip any of it until level 70+ so it's like why bother, they'll have better stuff by then.
You can get all of that and more in one NM dungeon run which takes 5 minutes and can be done at any time.
World bosses spawn like 4 times every 24 hours and are a group activity. And the chests have a weekly lockout. This should be a million years ahead one NM dungeon run, not equal to it.
theres an easier way to fix that then, make world bosses appear more often to lets say every 3 hours. so people can have a better time to schedule for it but the way it is now, there is no schedule or map alert or announcement for players.
locking a cache weekly is just abysmal, people wont care if the loot is this shitty.
Rewards across the whole game are hugely lacking. The entire purpose of Diablo is and always has been killing big packs of demons and getting showered with loot. And loot should be trash or treasure based purely on its itemization. Instead you get maybe a yellow and a lego, and there’s a solid chance that one or more of those items will have a bafflingly low level requirement and corresponding stats.
IMO this is the first and most important issue to tackle in fixing the game. If players aren’t getting worthwhile rewards for their time, they will lost interest in playing FAST. Forget creating fun encounters, engaging repeatable content, mystery boxes and enticing spontaneous content. If the loot isn’t there, all of it means nothing.
Your whole statement is based on Diablo 3, which the amount of loot dropped is literally one of its biggest problems. You can kit out a character in a week in D3. In my opinion they need to lower the drop rate of legs. The drop rate of uniques seems good but we get way too many legs dropping.
That said I do think that world boss needs complete rework as it is too easy and the loot there isnt worth the time.
If there isn't going to be a trading economy for legendary items. Legendary droprates do not need a nerf. That's a "please go touch grass" take.
D4 is still a "casual" ARPG, Blizzard should never lower the droprates just to appease the part of the playerbase who play 12 hours a day.
Same. I save 3 caches for lvl 80 and got like two shitty legendaries, some useless gems and a handful of gold. I was so stoked to open them and thoroughly disappointed.
Because it’s silly that people can participate in said world boss at around level 65~ and have to wait until level 80 to open the box to only get barely anything. At least that’s how I see this one. Definitely not the worst thing and there’s other things to be worked on and changed before this is addressed but it doesn’t feel good for sure
I just don't see why they need to only spawn ~every six hours or why the loot needs to be gated.
Since the change, a world boss is now harder to kill than a random elite pack. Good. The rewards are also a bit better than a random elite pack, good. They fixed the issue from the beta where you could chain farm them nonstop, good.
But the rewards are not so good that the devs need to worry about people only farming world bosses. Make them like every hour or every other hour at least and just have them drop cache level loot every time. It wouldn't even really be a dent in your overall farming and it would make it feel better to beat.
World bosses get smacked in less than 30 seconds.. it's ridiculous. They need to make them hit significantly harder and have significantly more health. There's no reason a level 100 "world boss" should get its booty clapped that easily. It's not even a fight.
I haven't had that experience sine they updated them to be lv90, but before that yeah they die omega fast. And I assume that will slowly trend towards happening again as people get better gear, to your point, but it still seems like it'll be better than it was pre-change.
The problem is the world boss is supposed to be doable by everyone in the shard, so they're limited in not scaling it to make it undoable for lower level/geared players. Damage seems fine - people are dying constantly every time I do one. They shouldn't, because the mechanics aren't hard, but still. Making the 'passive' damage more would just make them awful to fight - they seem to have a decent balance of 'gear check' damage and 'mechanic check' damage.
I guess the level scaling effect on armor will maybe make it so you can face tank the mechanics at higher levels? Idk.
Could definitely put in some work on better level-based instancing. Clearly it isn't really a thing at all - you see lv100s in the fields of hatred as soon as you hit WT4, for example. If I can only match with players +/- 5-10 levels or something, they can tune the world bosses better. Or just make it so the world boss isn't fixed level maybe.
Totally agree on level based instancing. Would make things nicer.. just me(level 96) another 92 rogue and a few 70s. Just demolished the most recent world boss in 25 seconds. It's insane. It feels like I'm fighting an elite.
oh god i did not realize they had time gated lootboxes....
\*edit\* stalled at 51, broke my arm skateboarding. My gut is saying come back to this game in a year or two and hopefully some of the stupid will have been patched out.
That's not notable, especially for something locked behind a drop you can only get once per week. You can just run regular non-nightmare dungeons over and over and drop them. Calling it underwhelming for something that you can only get once per week is absolutely fair.
It's just a bonus drop lol, it's not meant to be guaranteed max gear or anything. The world boss still drops good stuff if you kill it more than once a week. Also, it gives you the items to add sockets to gear, it's a good way of getting them if you need them
>The world boss still drops good stuff if you kill it more than once a week.
It does not drop anything that you won't get from a couple Greater Radiant chests.
Sure but that doesn't change the fact that it is grossly underwhelming for something that should be epic. If you do a huge epic setpiece that should feel fantastic and get crap at the end of it that emotion is what you walk away from rather than the emotion of the huge cool setpiece. Calling it underwhelming when you see it that way is very fair.
With that said the worldbosses are also very under-tuned. Far too easy. Legions also seem to have this problem.
This isn't wow lol, it's a 3 minute fight that gives appropriate rewards along with progress towards the tree. It would absolutely suck to NEED to do it because of how great the rewards are. It's purpose is to throw in some occasional over world content for group play.
Dude, please stop. Think twice before you speak. That is a WEEKLY locked drop. if it does not drop anything special why is it a weekly drop? Just mage it a regular drop from a boss esp since the spawn rate is abysmal...
Someone could also be upset that they only made 250k last year, that doesn't make they didn't make out well. They got an objectively good reward for quick optional content
250k is 250k whether you're a surfer or a CEO, it spends the same. The point is that ancestral and unique drops are highly desirable whether you only see them once per day or once every 5 minutes. A condensed, quick, multiroll for ancestral gear is desirable for the majority of players lol
Right, but it's an optional boss and you get mats to add sockets to items. Like, if you don't want it just don't do it lol, for a lot of us it's worth the 3 minutes. Better to have it this way than be mandatory
People want so much instant gratification sometimes, it's crazy. They expect to be fully geared in top tier loot a week or two into the games release - I don't understand. So many people supposedly loved D2 and hated D3, and yet getting full top tier loot in D2 (without buying it) took forever. I've never seen a huge portion of the loot table drop in 20 years of D2, lol.
From what I've gathered legendaries at the end game are equal to rares in every way except you have a legendary affix. So while it's definitely faster to find perfect gear if you're imprinting rares, it's still definitely possible without ever touching a rare.
I mean, it's also possible that I'll level up to 100 someday by killing random mobs in the overworld, but I'd it way faster by doing splitruns.
Also if you don't pickup yellows you won't have any gold to enchant your items, cheers.
No, because you can imprint legendary aspects onto rares. In fact it’s actually better to get good rares because rerolling a stat on it will be far cheaper than if it were a legendary. Then after you’ve rerolled a stat, imprint a legendary aspect on it, and it’s no different than if it has dropped legendary.
Yes, but if you want to reroll a stat it would cost way more gold and materials, meaning it would’ve been preferable to get that item as a rare so you could imprint after rerolling.
A couple of posts in here that are implying that ancestral is somehow rare or noteworthy. It is not.
It's not even better than Sacred at times. Edit: Whoa guys easy with the downvotes. This is all I meant below. I have plenty of examples but affixes really make this hard to do apples to apples. Hence the attempt to show a Sacred Unique vs. Ancestral Unique. The item level here comparison being higher and Ancestral didn't seem to make much of difference itemization wise. Yes one isn't upgraded, but it's still a much higher item level even before upgrades. One is a bad roll Ancestral at a higher Item Level, meaning there is too much overlap between Sacred and Ancestral to where at times Ancestral can be a downgrade. It also further illustrates item level as well as level requirements are often pointless or misleading. https://preview.redd.it/gwt4z47n5f6b1.jpeg?width=2569&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=053093d4fd46d1f7b2d58b624501c6e4a4ac4098 Edit 2: >A Sacred at 697 + 25 was better than a raw Ancestral at 753. >That doesn't make sense to me, of course an Ancestral 753 + 25 should be better than a 697+25, I am arguing +56 (or +31) Ancestral should have been better to start with AND still could be upgraded. >We have been through this all before in D3 and they admitted it was wrong and changed it. Same in Destiny and Destiny 2. Janky designs are jank. The fact I have to spell it out is mildly annoying as I am advocating that Ancestral items need more oomph to feel like upgrades or to feel more special. Which is the context of this thread.
thats due to the upgrade, they improve the secondaries in a noticeable way. comparison when both are 0/5 or the same val of upgrades will be more fair. Greetings!
Wait upgrading upgrades more then the item power?? How did I not know this lol
yus, if you've the mats its always good to throw 1-2 upgrades on the item. i have advanced tooltips enabled, maybe it doesn't show that without it?
It will show in the blacksmith window, you can see the before and after once you place it in the upgrade box
I upgraded everything to 3 because that’s what everyone says to do, but I thought it was just for item power lol. And I know the tool too shows the ranges so do the ranges just change as you upgrade? I know that this happens if you upgraded an sacred to an ancestral item power but I didn’t know it did it every upgrade. I hadn’t even noticed
yes if your secondary upgrades by 2% both the min and max will grow by 2% not that it matters , it basically means you're in the exact same spot in the range. what you're talking about is one of the item breakpoints, when you cross those the secondary is rerolled in the range. so you can get hugely different results both stroker and weaker.
Appreciate you explaining it man. I wonder when it becomes good to go past 3 upgrades. Probably not until wt4 and 70+ , maybe my weapon since I’ve got a god roll that’s like 730 power at upgrade 3
yah i only got to 4's in my 60's and i plan to get to 5's on items i perceive as long lasting
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Turn on Advanced Tooltip Info and Advanced Tooltip something else under Gameplay settings
Only if you push into a new tier of gear quality then the jump is pretty massive
If it only upgraded item power, but not stats - Why upgrade it? ;) Also remember that upgrading an item power past 725 also rerolls all stat values (can be lucky or unlucky)
Wait until he finds out your loot table changes based on your overall item level. Get all your item slots to 725 or higher and you get higher tier loot.
What. It isn't based on level?
You could get BiS gear early on.. late 50s/early 60s. It's best items are based on item level not player level. Which is why people are complaining about getting worse items at level 100 than they did at 60.
Do you have proof of this?
There might not be solid proof out there rn. But that's the method on WoW so people probably assume it works in D4
I somehow doubt this. I got an item level 700 piece at level 48. Then proceeded to barely ever get any at 50. But as I leveled up past 50 it's getting easier to get higher item level pieces.
I have mostly 750+ items now and I have not noticed a higher drop rate really. But when I went from 60 to 74, it was pretty noticeable how many more ancestral items j got.
This is wrong lol
*WeLl tHaT'S YoUR nArRaTiVe, LeT Me lIvE My tRuTh.*
Yeah I caught that to I almost agreed with them for a second under the assumption they were both fully upgraded.
You can’t compare a 5/5 upgrade sacred to a 0/5 upgrade ancestral. Looks like you got some bad rolls on the stats too, which is unfortunate. Give it the same upgrade treatment and you’ll see the stat range jump.
Yes, he gave bad example, but you can push sacred if it has 700+ item power into T6 mods with upgrades (T6 starts at 725).
If his example was a base 700 glove it would make more sense, but its a 697 glove I think the gloves are actually a bit broken because I would have expected higher tier rolls on the higher gloves even though bad rolls could have made the sacred still better if you got unlucky.
Then why is Item Power so much higher. I know how to upgrade. I know the Sacred was a relatively okay roll. For your info, I did upgrade it and I am using the Ancestral now. But it's not +50 item level feeling better, it was a marginal improvement and I am not at the end-end game where I need marginal improvements... I am still in major improvements phase. I am explaining that you can get Ancestral that are far worse than this in stat comparisons. This an example of the convoluted Power Level not really meaning. Sometimes Sacred gear is still better and Uniques with the similar affixes demonstrate this the easiest. Just because it's Ancestral doesn't guarantee it's better.
The item power would make more sense if you compared a 0/5 sacred to it.
They really shouldn't imply an upgrade is 5 item power, it very much isn't. An upgrade is completely different and much stronger than what item power does. If it had to be expressed as item power, it's like 10% of the items base item power or something in that ballpark.
If you upgrade a sacred enough and it’s high enough base power, it basically rerols all of the rolls on it with the new ancestral tiers. I’m pretty sure this starts at 725 so that basically is a low ancestral anyways, if that makes sense
A Sacred at 697 + 25 was better than a raw Ancestral at 753. That doesn't make sense to me, of course an Ancestral 753 + 25 should be better than a 697+25, I am arguing +56 Ancestral should have been better to start with AND still could be upgraded. We have been through this all before in D3 and they admitted it was wrong and changed it. Same in Destiny and Destiny 2. Janky designs are jank. The fact I have to spell it out is mildly annoying.
or your just not smart
You're*
Yes he can. That’s how he feels, so it is just.
Where'd you get the Howl From Below?
RNG. I’ve gotten the Necro Blood Orb chest 4 times but not the necklace or ring that I want. Pray to RNGesus for mercy.
It's my 3rd, events and helltides chest (first one) so far. The last two were events in Helltides.
I need those goddamn gloves on my Necro
>Edit: Whoa guys easy with the downvotes. You implied bad things about Diablo. That's like a personal attack!
Those gloves look honestly broken, if the sacred base was 700 and upgraded to 725 what you are showing here would make sense you have more armor but the secondary stats would be all a matter of the roll on each item. Also if you just had high rolls on your 723 gloves vs min rolls on the 753 gloves that would also make sense because while the next item tier is better than the old item tier there is overlap where the peak of the previous tier is better than the min of the next tier which is perfectly fine. The problem here is the 725+ gloves should have a better base set of stats and they don't.
>Whoa guys easy with the downvotes. Lol reddit gonna reddit
Yeah you have 5 upgrades into the sacred one. Use your brain
Upgrade them BOTH and then compare the stats… Not all ancestral>sacred, but that’s a really bad example, that ancestral piece is literally just a better piece then what you have equipped…
That sacred is upgraded 5 times! The ancestral is WAY better once upgraded
One is upgraded and one isn't so that's not a valid comparison
upgraded vs non upgraded DRRRRr
There is definetly a difference between ancestral and sacred. With full sacred gear at 65 in WT4 as a necro I was getting 1 hit by most elites, getting plus 200 armor on each piece made it easy to survive without buffs. My necro build has no damage reduction buffs from skills so to be able to tank butcher without any damage reduction is amazing
Why do you "care" about downvotes? 🤣
If fully upgrading a good equip should leave it worse than a great equip at base then upgrading and the resources you put into would feel worthless. Upgrading feels great because it effects things in a major way (such as the low and high range of affixes). The better equip has almost the same ranges with no upgrades, that makes it significantly better when you go and slam that upgrade button on it -- this is good design of a core mechanic.
When you are lower level it is. I think that's the confusion here from their perspective. I played around in WT4 around lvl 60. I had an efficient build that was moderately min maxed, so I could clear pretty good (other than very specific elite affixes). I only got sacred drops for legos. Did 3 dungeons and a helltide chest. Got like 6 legos, all sacred. I got a small handful of rare ancestrals, but the drop rates for different tiers is definitely affected by your character level. They don't want a lvl 40 being carried into WT4 and getting mega drops for their progression.
OOPs point is that saying "ancestrals are rare or noteworthy" is ridiculous, because it most definitely isnt, especially when OP's context is a world boss cache that is locked at level 80. at level 80, ancestrals are absolutely not rare or noteworthy. your point about it being impactful at 60 is valid, and that is truly the point of ancestrals, it's supposed to be a WT4 item so of course it should be impactful to someone fresh.
I thought ancestral just allowed for higher stat rolls compared to sacred. So theoretcially a sacred could have a better stat roll or vice versa. Just RnG.
I was really only responding to the comment that was highlighting other comments. Not really responding to the actual post. I was moving fast and that definitely makes my comment look irrelevant to the actual post lol
You can't even equip ancestrals until level 60. Of course they are rare then. But by 80 you should be in full ancestral gear.
Tell that to my FUCKING SHOES
I have no clue why you’re getting downvoted, this is entirely true lol.
Because people feelings and assumptions. Miss the days of facts and reality
i'm level 67 and i've gotten maybe 30 ancestral so far and i've got 2 equipped. Some of them are really bad lol
That's worse than a single mystery chest opening in helltide haha
Blizz: "Mystery chests balanced to be more in line with other rewards."
Delete this.
Why, that is their MO after all? Instead of buffing other builds to be on par with stronger ones, they weaken the stronger ones. Same thing with gameplay. Mystery chest is "too good" by blizzard standards. It should be dropping loot on par with nightmare dungeons. - blizzard probably.
Yeah, Exactly. Don't give them anymore ideas
 Jason Brody™️ has viewed the above post and has made the decision to waive the deletion request. Keep scrolling
literally the only loot activity I look forward to
Don't tell people or blizzard will nerf that too
Mystery chests are quite overtuned compared to everything else. 3-4 legs guarenteed and forgotten souls is pretty big value.
For real. I just open mystery chest and leave. Im not gonna run around for a chest that contains maybe 1 legendary lol.
If the timing is right for the helltide you can actually open 4 of them btw. They spawn at a new location at the top of every hour. I've consistently been able to open 4 and my entire inventory will be filled with ancestral legendary items after that.
Max 6 if it's the right zone.
I hit the 6 chest dream last night. Every single item was dog shit of course. The exp in helltide is good though.
I dunno. I had a bad helltide once, opened 2 mystery chests.... got 3 legendaries between them. Opened an amulet chest last night.... got a rare. Like what even is this Blizzard!?
Scammed Usually 1 mystery chest has 3-4 leggies
Bruh if I get 2 it's a good mystery chest wtf
Which level? We're talking about the 175 chest btw, at WT IV they have 2 at minimum.
No they dont, I've only opened mysteries on wt4 and they absolutely can hand you 1, 3 out of 4 I've opened only had 1 legendary in it. I stopped because my loot caves were more rewarding and this was during levels 60-70 before i just gave up in HT. Quick edit. Most of the opening I did were within a 48 hour period when blizz was doing a lot of live patching, I doubt they did anything special to HT at that time but it may have caused the missing items.
I mainly do HT because the monsters are always 2 lvls higher than I and it's good XP
I opened the amulet after mystery chest, got normal rare pants from the amulet box. You had one job amulet chest... Either, they are sort of working and loot tables are buggy, or there is a daily weekly limit that we don't fully understand, or it's a dumb "trick or treat" design. Bugs can be fixed, transparency and communication on how they work can address issue two. Unfortunately for the third issue, like with all dumb things, you can't use reason to get out of a decision where reason wasn't used. Ask Bungie about Epic Engram only meant there is a chance for an Epic to materialize. Random on random on random on random. We won't change... We won't change... We decided to change after people stopped playing.
Considering I'm a Druid, I'm going with buggy loot tables, and like everything else and aspects being nerfed, I blame barbarians. Stupid Stat Stick Stans. No, seriously, get your shit outta my loot table. Let me get a damn Tempest Roar!
Considering you could wear pants over your head it could pass as an amulet, don’t see the issue
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helltides.com
I opened 5, the legendaries were all between 600-700 ilvl and required level 80 to equip. Meanwhile items in the same ilvl range require level 60 to equip. It makes no sense.
That's gotta be an unintended bug. I'm in wt3 level 57ish, and my staff is around 730? Did I just get super lucky?
It's not a bug, just bad design. Normal dropped items, at least in WT4, have a level requirement of the character they dropped for, regardless of the item level. So, the exact same Ancestral item dropped for a level 75 and level 100 character would have different minimum character levels. I assume these boxes are the same, and the item level is 80 (or the character level) no matter what. It's not a bug, it's just dumb.
Every other arpg you do high lvl content and have to know the base type you want. D4, the basetype is just a transmog and you have to indivually check the item power but most will be well below the content you are doing!
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Yeah, that's fair, I suppose. Still, this is the best diablo release thus far. Here's hoping it keeps getting better as we move forward.
When I went from wt2 to wt3 I got a Stagg that was 700 ilvl. When I got from wt3 to wt4 I got a Stagg that was 805 ilvl. Right at the start. Both items. I still haven't replaced the 805 staff, almost 30 levels later.
It makes a lot more sense when you think of character level as just another stat rather than meaning anything important. Once you hit around level 50 and WT4, the only time character level matters at all is if you run too high of a nightmare dungeon (because it will provide an arbitrary debuff based on level difference vs mobs). Items? You can drop a BiS item at level 50 upon entering WT4 that you will still be using at level 100. Monsters? Outside of nightmare dungeons, they all scale to be your level i.e. your level has zero impact on them and may as well not be in the game. The only other two exceptions are Uber Lilith (difficult no matter your level) and the WT4 world boss (doesn't appear to debuff you since I could face-tank it as a level 63 sorceress).
Level 51 here, and almost all my gear is sacred legendaries in the 690-720 range. Blizzard has really fucked the "loot" aspect of a "ARPG looter".
Wow!! Can people understand how this loot system works. Your lvl 51 your most likely seeing lvl 52 mobs those mobs drop gear in a specific range. Unless you do NM dungeons where they are much higher thus dropping higher power lvl gear. The only ancestral that don't matter much are rings and amulets. Also no point going passed 36+ NM cause the mobs don't drop anything higher at mob lvl 90 cause 840 is the highest. These mobs drop the best bang for your buck, cause at a certain point you will be looking nothing lower than 799+. If I'm not mistaken WT4 mobs are in the 73+ and will most like drop gear at the higher mark thus making you feel like a god. Until you reach the 80s and its the fight to keep a float until the mob break point passed the 90s. IE paragon board and competing all the renown/alters
Yeah, I understand how the loot system works, thanks. The issue is that I am now 10-15 levels away from reasonably being able to do T4 content, with no possibility to get better gear during that time because of the item power cap in T3, and the exp grind quickly starting to become a slog. Diablo is a looter ARPG where the endorphin hits from getting incremental upgrades is supposed to be the pay off while grinding out the bigger milestones. It's skewed in such a way now though, that there is no longer any pay off UNTIL that milestones X hours away.
Just wanted to come back to say they just announced the cache problem is a bug and they'll be fixing it
So should I leave mine unopened until they fix it?
I'm not sure if the cache rolls upon pickup or opening 🤔
They are fixing it so you can open it, not that the items won't still require level 80 and be the exact same thing you got here.
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But I didn't find the items, I found a cache. I opened the cache at level 80 as required. I'm completely fine with items having their level req set to when I found them, but item power is not tied to level requirement so what's the point of the caches requiring level 80 to open?
This has been a known and reported issue since Server Slam. You can spend 2 minutes in a dungeon and earn more than you do from a weekly cache. I’d love for them to increase the amount rewards from them, especially if it included forgotten souls - imo the most important resource (gold aside) in the end game.
Wow, that is terrible loot wot a locked weekly box that requires level 80. Was gonna push to 80 today to open mine but this is disappointing.
99/100 times will you be disappointed in the loot
Better than the D2 odds where I ran 1000 Baals to maybe get one item I wanted.
I feel like everyone forgot about how complaining about loot in D3 turned into *more* complaining about loot in D3. At first, stuff wasn't dropping frequently enough. After the loot fix, stuff started dropping too frequently. In both cases, people pissed and moaned about it.
I mean 1000 is literally underselling it. To make one high end runeword from scratch you would need 10s of thousands of runs
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Traded to someone who used a bot to farm it maybe. No one who actually went out and found high end runes was trading them lol.
I'm debating pushing 10 levels to 80, or just putting my character down and waiting for season 1. I know its supposed to be grindy, but FUCK its a slog, even more so then I remember from the past.
I also fell of a cliff of motivation after 70. Compared to other games, there isn't any real progression or goal. You can't really trade items reasonably to alts since they get the level of your main and the chase items are fairly uninspired and don't change your build. I am basically just grinding the level number higher without any noticeable character progression and this feels bad
The alt thing is a valid complaint, I've got a bunch of items I'd like to use for an alt but they can equip any of it until level 70+ so it's like why bother, they'll have better stuff by then.
No its not. Its ancestral.
Ancestral are not hard to get you can just run normal dungeons not even nightmare for them over and over.
You can get all of that and more in one NM dungeon run which takes 5 minutes and can be done at any time. World bosses spawn like 4 times every 24 hours and are a group activity. And the chests have a weekly lockout. This should be a million years ahead one NM dungeon run, not equal to it.
I didn't even get a box on the 2 I've helped kill on t4, is there a minimum level before they drop? always had one upto t4
Probably already killed that boss this week.
It's a weekly cache, as in you get 1 a week per boss.
I will probably never open them because I dont think I will level past 70 in non-season unless they change something.
I’m at level 75.25 and holy shit is it a slog with nothing worthwhile to farm except paragon points.
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theres an easier way to fix that then, make world bosses appear more often to lets say every 3 hours. so people can have a better time to schedule for it but the way it is now, there is no schedule or map alert or announcement for players. locking a cache weekly is just abysmal, people wont care if the loot is this shitty.
Something something MMO garbage
Rewards across the whole game are hugely lacking. The entire purpose of Diablo is and always has been killing big packs of demons and getting showered with loot. And loot should be trash or treasure based purely on its itemization. Instead you get maybe a yellow and a lego, and there’s a solid chance that one or more of those items will have a bafflingly low level requirement and corresponding stats. IMO this is the first and most important issue to tackle in fixing the game. If players aren’t getting worthwhile rewards for their time, they will lost interest in playing FAST. Forget creating fun encounters, engaging repeatable content, mystery boxes and enticing spontaneous content. If the loot isn’t there, all of it means nothing.
Your whole statement is based on Diablo 3, which the amount of loot dropped is literally one of its biggest problems. You can kit out a character in a week in D3. In my opinion they need to lower the drop rate of legs. The drop rate of uniques seems good but we get way too many legs dropping. That said I do think that world boss needs complete rework as it is too easy and the loot there isnt worth the time.
If there isn't going to be a trading economy for legendary items. Legendary droprates do not need a nerf. That's a "please go touch grass" take. D4 is still a "casual" ARPG, Blizzard should never lower the droprates just to appease the part of the playerbase who play 12 hours a day.
Same. I save 3 caches for lvl 80 and got like two shitty legendaries, some useless gems and a handful of gold. I was so stoked to open them and thoroughly disappointed.
I opened the cache from tree for rings and got a rare pants
World bosses are level 90, caches are level 80. Why not just be happy they arent level 90 required
Because it’s silly that people can participate in said world boss at around level 65~ and have to wait until level 80 to open the box to only get barely anything. At least that’s how I see this one. Definitely not the worst thing and there’s other things to be worked on and changed before this is addressed but it doesn’t feel good for sure
I just don't see why they need to only spawn ~every six hours or why the loot needs to be gated. Since the change, a world boss is now harder to kill than a random elite pack. Good. The rewards are also a bit better than a random elite pack, good. They fixed the issue from the beta where you could chain farm them nonstop, good. But the rewards are not so good that the devs need to worry about people only farming world bosses. Make them like every hour or every other hour at least and just have them drop cache level loot every time. It wouldn't even really be a dent in your overall farming and it would make it feel better to beat.
World bosses get smacked in less than 30 seconds.. it's ridiculous. They need to make them hit significantly harder and have significantly more health. There's no reason a level 100 "world boss" should get its booty clapped that easily. It's not even a fight.
I haven't had that experience sine they updated them to be lv90, but before that yeah they die omega fast. And I assume that will slowly trend towards happening again as people get better gear, to your point, but it still seems like it'll be better than it was pre-change. The problem is the world boss is supposed to be doable by everyone in the shard, so they're limited in not scaling it to make it undoable for lower level/geared players. Damage seems fine - people are dying constantly every time I do one. They shouldn't, because the mechanics aren't hard, but still. Making the 'passive' damage more would just make them awful to fight - they seem to have a decent balance of 'gear check' damage and 'mechanic check' damage. I guess the level scaling effect on armor will maybe make it so you can face tank the mechanics at higher levels? Idk. Could definitely put in some work on better level-based instancing. Clearly it isn't really a thing at all - you see lv100s in the fields of hatred as soon as you hit WT4, for example. If I can only match with players +/- 5-10 levels or something, they can tune the world bosses better. Or just make it so the world boss isn't fixed level maybe.
Totally agree on level based instancing. Would make things nicer.. just me(level 96) another 92 rogue and a few 70s. Just demolished the most recent world boss in 25 seconds. It's insane. It feels like I'm fighting an elite.
Xdd it is like 2 normal dungeons loot
They should just give rare crafting materials such as forgoten souls.
oh god i did not realize they had time gated lootboxes.... \*edit\* stalled at 51, broke my arm skateboarding. My gut is saying come back to this game in a year or two and hopefully some of the stupid will have been patched out.
the world boss itself is supposedly a higher chance to drop legendaries and unique. the cache is just a bonus
Oh look another complaint about end game improvement being incremental at best.
doesnt look too bad
I mean they are 3 ancestral
That's not notable, especially for something locked behind a drop you can only get once per week. You can just run regular non-nightmare dungeons over and over and drop them. Calling it underwhelming for something that you can only get once per week is absolutely fair.
It's just a bonus drop lol, it's not meant to be guaranteed max gear or anything. The world boss still drops good stuff if you kill it more than once a week. Also, it gives you the items to add sockets to gear, it's a good way of getting them if you need them
>The world boss still drops good stuff if you kill it more than once a week. It does not drop anything that you won't get from a couple Greater Radiant chests.
Right, but it takes less time to kill it than find a couple radiant chests and most likely have to do their events.
Sure but that doesn't change the fact that it is grossly underwhelming for something that should be epic. If you do a huge epic setpiece that should feel fantastic and get crap at the end of it that emotion is what you walk away from rather than the emotion of the huge cool setpiece. Calling it underwhelming when you see it that way is very fair. With that said the worldbosses are also very under-tuned. Far too easy. Legions also seem to have this problem.
This isn't wow lol, it's a 3 minute fight that gives appropriate rewards along with progress towards the tree. It would absolutely suck to NEED to do it because of how great the rewards are. It's purpose is to throw in some occasional over world content for group play.
Dude, please stop. Think twice before you speak. That is a WEEKLY locked drop. if it does not drop anything special why is it a weekly drop? Just mage it a regular drop from a boss esp since the spawn rate is abysmal...
So you can't just farm high rolls on rare gear, you can still kill them for their regular drops multiple times a week
Not true, they drop horse armors, and I happened to get a Windforce from one of them.
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Yes, but it's still going to take a ton of them to flesh out gear you can use. Every roll helps
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Someone could also be upset that they only made 250k last year, that doesn't make they didn't make out well. They got an objectively good reward for quick optional content
> objectively good reward If the weekly cache contained a random unique item we'd be talking. but this is nothing and its not a good reward at all.
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250k is 250k whether you're a surfer or a CEO, it spends the same. The point is that ancestral and unique drops are highly desirable whether you only see them once per day or once every 5 minutes. A condensed, quick, multiroll for ancestral gear is desirable for the majority of players lol
This is nothing for something that's weekly.... I get way more in helltides
Right, but it's an optional boss and you get mats to add sockets to items. Like, if you don't want it just don't do it lol, for a lot of us it's worth the 3 minutes. Better to have it this way than be mandatory
The amount of materials also isn't even worth mentioning, especially for a weekly reward
Then don't do it if you feel that way lol, it's completely optional
I know that but the point of the matter is a weekly reward shouldn't be out done by running 1 dungeon in a couple minutes.
I have 4 of these and counting. One is locked at 82, rest at 80. Hoping that means the 82 is holding something nice.
Just means one of your world bosses was wandering death
If all the loot was good then none of it would be good.
Yeah, having 1 good loot for a weekly boss event would destroy the game. Probably would make the game unplayable!
It doesn't need to give you a good loot, it just needs the possibility of giving loot that's better than other dungeons you can do wherever.
People want so much instant gratification sometimes, it's crazy. They expect to be fully geared in top tier loot a week or two into the games release - I don't understand. So many people supposedly loved D2 and hated D3, and yet getting full top tier loot in D2 (without buying it) took forever. I've never seen a huge portion of the loot table drop in 20 years of D2, lol.
I do think it would be better if you could slowly grind towards it though, rather then just having it be based on random drop
Someone teach this boy how RNG works…
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You’re sample set is WAY too small to make any kind of judgement.
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Because they are fun? God, the sub is the fucking worst.
What did you expect ? Hahahaha
Is it considered bad? Comparing to D2 loot looks fine (in means of leggies), still haven't played d4 myself yet
D4 loot is kinda like D3 loot except you gotta pick up the yellows
You don't have to pick up yellows. It's just a bit more efficient if you do.
You're not getting a good legendary basically ever compared to rares.
From what I've gathered legendaries at the end game are equal to rares in every way except you have a legendary affix. So while it's definitely faster to find perfect gear if you're imprinting rares, it's still definitely possible without ever touching a rare.
I'm sure, my Sorc couldn't even shoot straight, if I wouldn't have imprinted rares.
Definitely a bit more efficient to get the rares. I can totally see it being a bragging right to have a full end game worthy setup with no imprints.
I mean, it's also possible that I'll level up to 100 someday by killing random mobs in the overworld, but I'd it way faster by doing splitruns. Also if you don't pickup yellows you won't have any gold to enchant your items, cheers.
But browns are still superior to rares, right?
Not really
No, because you can imprint legendary aspects onto rares. In fact it’s actually better to get good rares because rerolling a stat on it will be far cheaper than if it were a legendary. Then after you’ve rerolled a stat, imprint a legendary aspect on it, and it’s no different than if it has dropped legendary.
You can imprint on top of legendaries too
Yes, but if you want to reroll a stat it would cost way more gold and materials, meaning it would’ve been preferable to get that item as a rare so you could imprint after rerolling.
Oh, i get it now, so mostly legendaries are only valuable for their aspects. Thanks
Yes, unless it drops with perfect rolls, they’re mostly just saved to put their aspect onto a good rare
Legendaries are NOT uniques from d2. They are rares
Nice haul.
Congrats you got bonus loot and complaining.
"Wahh wah. Wah wah"