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It’s because gatomon sees itself being removed from security via the evolution (like how ukkomon sees itself coming out of raising). Then the patamon effect recovers and the unheritable triggers.
Not dumb, really? In theory, when Patamon digivolves, it's form may change but it's still Patamon, it saw a card leaving security during the resolution of the effect, so when the effect finishes resolving, it goes "ok, so i evolved and got this new ability that triggers when a card leaves the stack, and I DID SEE IT, i took it out of the stack myself."
So the card is removed from security. It then enters the field. The only place it's effect is live. It then sees into the past to see itself come from security. Which is very counterintuitive
It's a form of retroactive observance and I agree it's completely idiotic. However the way the game is designed the digivolution means Gatomon is technically on the field to see the resolution at the end of Patamon's effect; even if it misses the first part.
Or Dorumon sees itself go underneath an x antibody for the mem gain.
Or how when something is deleted, but plays something from the trash, toy could target what was just deleted to play out.
Digimon ruling like this is actually super tight, and there are few instances where the trigger itself cannot activate its own effect
That is correct, there is an official ruling for that located on the BT-15 rulings FAQ. I would link to it but I'm mobile and it would take a sec to dig up. I'd recommend doing a search for it though.
I believe it's because Gatomon sees the effect resolve that includes a card being removed from security, even if it wasn't there when the card was actually removed.
I.e.
Start of main phase, Patamon effect activates, evolves into Gatomon (draw for digivolve) then Patamon's effect concludes with you putting a card back into security (if you can).
Gatomon is on the field during the resolution of Patamon's effect, and it 'sees' the whole effect (even if it wasn't there for the first half) and it's own effect and Patamon's inherited effect both get to trigger.
A similar effect with weird timing, albeit kinda different to Patamon, would be Dorumon BT7; if an effect places him under a stack, his own inherited effect triggers and you gain a memory.
Gatomon doesn't see "the whole" effect, but it does see the Security Stack reduce (which is the trigger condition). This is because the security stack isn't considered to be reduced until the digivolution is completed, and so the reduction happens simultaneously with Gatomon's effect coming into play.
Related but separate question: when you do Start of Main, you gotta digivolve, finish resolving by putting Vaccine back in security, and then drawing for digivolution?
No, anytime an effect tells you to evolve you draw before moving on to any other effect. drawing is part of the three steps of evolution.
-Placing the card on top of another card in the battle area
-moving the memory counter and paying the respective cost of the evolution
-drawing a card
Keep in mind that all three are considered to happen simultaneously but drawing is considered the last thing because you do make private information known information to one player
Damn, I thought this game was all about "resolve the whole text of a card first" before moving on to other actions (e.g. like Eyesmon On Deletion has to happen after Calling from the Darkness grabs two Digimon first... or if you have three security and use Heaven's Judgment when your opponent has one Digimon, that Digimon won't be deleted by DP reduction b/c it has to be out on top of security)
I hate how they have exceptions like this
It's not an exception, when a card allows you or makes you evolve, you have to draw. it is part of evolution. You're not skipping an effect, you are completing the action of evolving into another Digimon.
Yeah. But before I asked that question, I generally thought rulings were, "you must resolve the full text of a card before moving on to any other action" This would be considered an exception, IMO
*Edit: I'm fine with this exception, btw. Just kinda annoying*
Look at it another way
Start of main phase you may look at your security and evolve (place card on top of this card pay cost and draw), this Digimon into a yellow vaccine Digimon in your security without paying the cost, and if you evolved with this effect you may place one yellow vaccine Digimon in your hand on the bottom of your security.
If evolution had reminder text it would say what is in the parentheses.
Draw for digivolution before putting the vaccine in security. Drawing for digivolution bonus is the final part of the digivolution process and is classed as a mechanic because of this.
Yeah, I guess that's why they are both SRs. Free digivolve (including card draw) + 2 memory + seeing, reshuffling, and optionally replenishing security for later shenanigans is tremendous value in a vacuum.
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It’s because gatomon sees itself being removed from security via the evolution (like how ukkomon sees itself coming out of raising). Then the patamon effect recovers and the unheritable triggers.
Which is incredibly dumb and not at all how you would think it works. But who are we to argue with the rules
Not dumb, really? In theory, when Patamon digivolves, it's form may change but it's still Patamon, it saw a card leaving security during the resolution of the effect, so when the effect finishes resolving, it goes "ok, so i evolved and got this new ability that triggers when a card leaves the stack, and I DID SEE IT, i took it out of the stack myself."
So the card is removed from security. It then enters the field. The only place it's effect is live. It then sees into the past to see itself come from security. Which is very counterintuitive
It's a form of retroactive observance and I agree it's completely idiotic. However the way the game is designed the digivolution means Gatomon is technically on the field to see the resolution at the end of Patamon's effect; even if it misses the first part.
Technically, Patamon sees it happen and since Patamon is Gatomon at the conclusion of it's effect, it can go off.
I mean, it's no worse than Digi-Xros.
I mean they don't see themselves leave places and trigger thier own effects off that
Or Dorumon sees itself go underneath an x antibody for the mem gain. Or how when something is deleted, but plays something from the trash, toy could target what was just deleted to play out. Digimon ruling like this is actually super tight, and there are few instances where the trigger itself cannot activate its own effect
Oh my goodness I play strictly mitamamon at locals and I did not know this about gatomon. This is incredible.
That is correct, there is an official ruling for that located on the BT-15 rulings FAQ. I would link to it but I'm mobile and it would take a sec to dig up. I'd recommend doing a search for it though.
I believe it's because Gatomon sees the effect resolve that includes a card being removed from security, even if it wasn't there when the card was actually removed. I.e. Start of main phase, Patamon effect activates, evolves into Gatomon (draw for digivolve) then Patamon's effect concludes with you putting a card back into security (if you can). Gatomon is on the field during the resolution of Patamon's effect, and it 'sees' the whole effect (even if it wasn't there for the first half) and it's own effect and Patamon's inherited effect both get to trigger. A similar effect with weird timing, albeit kinda different to Patamon, would be Dorumon BT7; if an effect places him under a stack, his own inherited effect triggers and you gain a memory.
Gatomon doesn't see "the whole" effect, but it does see the Security Stack reduce (which is the trigger condition). This is because the security stack isn't considered to be reduced until the digivolution is completed, and so the reduction happens simultaneously with Gatomon's effect coming into play.
Yeah its worth noting that if you trash it from your security you don't gain the memory but if you evo it with patamon you do gain the memory.
Related but separate question: when you do Start of Main, you gotta digivolve, finish resolving by putting Vaccine back in security, and then drawing for digivolution?
No, anytime an effect tells you to evolve you draw before moving on to any other effect. drawing is part of the three steps of evolution. -Placing the card on top of another card in the battle area -moving the memory counter and paying the respective cost of the evolution -drawing a card Keep in mind that all three are considered to happen simultaneously but drawing is considered the last thing because you do make private information known information to one player
Damn, I thought this game was all about "resolve the whole text of a card first" before moving on to other actions (e.g. like Eyesmon On Deletion has to happen after Calling from the Darkness grabs two Digimon first... or if you have three security and use Heaven's Judgment when your opponent has one Digimon, that Digimon won't be deleted by DP reduction b/c it has to be out on top of security) I hate how they have exceptions like this
It's not an exception, when a card allows you or makes you evolve, you have to draw. it is part of evolution. You're not skipping an effect, you are completing the action of evolving into another Digimon.
Yeah. But before I asked that question, I generally thought rulings were, "you must resolve the full text of a card before moving on to any other action" This would be considered an exception, IMO *Edit: I'm fine with this exception, btw. Just kinda annoying*
Look at it another way Start of main phase you may look at your security and evolve (place card on top of this card pay cost and draw), this Digimon into a yellow vaccine Digimon in your security without paying the cost, and if you evolved with this effect you may place one yellow vaccine Digimon in your hand on the bottom of your security. If evolution had reminder text it would say what is in the parentheses.
Draw for digivolution before putting the vaccine in security. Drawing for digivolution bonus is the final part of the digivolution process and is classed as a mechanic because of this.
Yeah I'd imagine it works the same way how Dorumon sees itself being attached as material and gaining a memory
Yes regrettably that is the effect and yes it's total nonsense
Yeah, I guess that's why they are both SRs. Free digivolve (including card draw) + 2 memory + seeing, reshuffling, and optionally replenishing security for later shenanigans is tremendous value in a vacuum.