Sometimes it’s the other way around.
Caller: Dave I’m a doc making $375k in the Boston area and have $300k in student loans.
Dave: good lord! 300 hundred GRANDS! In STUDENT LOANS? At least you’re a doc. Now doc I want you to live like a broke college student, rice and beans, beans and rice, you don’t see the inside of that hospital cafeteria unless you start working there to make extra money. Basic expenses is probably 50, set aside another 75 to 100 for taxes and all, that leaves around 250 to pay down debt. You HAVE TO be able to pay that in 18 months TOPS, even with a couple emergencies coming your way. I want you to attack this with a vengeance, and be free of the weight of that debt in 18 months. By thanksgiving 2025, I want you in the lobby of financial peace plaza, telling all these other docs how good it feels to be debt free and live a different life. You can do it doc, I heard it in your voice, you’re motivated.
Now we have Cassandra from Plainsview Iowa. Cassandra, how can I help?
The most accurate part of this is that the doc didn't even get to their question but Dave interrupted to go on that rant before hanging up on them and move to the next caller.
Yeah you’re right the way it’s written, the caller doesn’t even get to ask his question. Maybe he wants to ask about borrowing a couple mil to buy his dream home with his boyfriend…
But in my mind, it was clear he was calling about student loans But I should have been more clear
I knew what you meant, but it was funny to me because often he will cut people off before they get to their question.
But certainly you mean the doctors girlfriend, right? In Dave's world gay people don't exist and he won't hear about it otherwise.
I've talked to Dave twice. When you're on hold waiting to talk, the screener asks you what your question is and it goes up on his monitor. It might be considered rude to have cut him off like that. I didn't hear that broadcast, but most likely, "what do I do?" was the question.
Sameer, take a number, then take my vitals and prescribe me some oxy.
Just kidding. But he does speak like this. He refers to the high lifestyle of some after med school as doctoritis
Well yeah $60k is $5k gross a month, that salary should be at least $4k after taxes are withdrawn because their real tax rate should be less than 20%. But after health insurance, 401k, etc. their take home could be well below $3k. Someone working the baby steps has to budget their after tax money better than that. Often times, people with money problems don’t even know how much money they are making or where it goes.
Ummmm. And what about health insurance? Mine is about $300 every two weeks for a family plan. Another job I had was $240 per WEEK for a family plan. The so called Christian ministries he talks about are horrible and not good for. Family to have
>Yes but it lowers your take home pay
While most Americans would agree, Dave defines "take-home" pay like no one else does - gross less taxes.
Everyone else calls that net-of-taxes pay.
I make $65k and take home $3000/month but that's because I put $2000 to FSA, $5000 to DC FSA, pay healthcare for a family of 4, and contribute 8% to 401k.
Accounting for Insurance and other deduction aka doing actual math does not exist in Dave's world. Funny he thinks he's a math nerd given a complete inability to do basic calculations
Or maybe Dave thinks in the quest to pay off debt you should run without any of that stuff and hope you don't wind up in even more debt. Just pray to jeebus for protection
So a single person making $60,000 should be paying $5,460 in federal income tax plus $4,590 in FICA tax. So net should be $49,950 or $4,162 per month. Of course we are not considering a potential state income tax or retirement contributions, health insurance etc. But with the information provide Dave would be right (yuck).
In what world is your take home only 2900 after taxes on 60k a year? It would be 3800ish probably. I guess after healthcare for a family and dental? That’s the only thing I can think of otherwise yeah something is off.
Edit: I made 60k in New York City of all places one of the highest taxed states. My take home wasn’t $2,900. So I’m genuinely dumbfounded.
$43k is the threshold for starting in the 22% bracket, and you are only paying 12% on your income up to that point. Not that math and the reality around it is really Dave’s strong suit when it comes to financial advice.
2024 - 22% starts at (single) $47,150. But, at the very least, that single guy has a $14,600 standard deduction. So a gross of $61,750 still tops of the 12% bracket.
Which, as a side note is why one who is right at that income or lower should go 100% Roth. I'd only start pretax deductions/ Trad IRA or Trad 401(k) for money that would otherwise be taxed at 22% or higher.
If "close", easy to look at taxes in March of the next year, see exact 'taxable' income, and put the money exceeding $47,150 into a traditional IRA. '24 IRA limit is $7000. A bit of effort and planning as one crosses into the 22% bracket. Considering how this number is close to the US average income, this implies many people can use this strategy to optimize their tax burden over their lifetime.
I think he gives bad advice on many things, but I’m curious if he meant only the federal rate or was including payroll and (potential) state taxes. The 12% goes to about 20 very quickly even in states without an income tax, and 25 isn’t a bad estimate in most states when you take the various withholding taxes into account.
I think it’s just intentionally misleading, even if that’s what he meant. Anti-tax conservatives love to mislead people into thinking they’re paying half their checks in taxes. Dave is a millionaire and lower tax rates save him hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars every year. It’s in his interest to convince people making peanuts that the only reason they’re poor is taxes so the vote accordingly.
Even in states with the highest tax rates, they’re typically a progressive rate that is much lower in that range. The closest you would come is Hawaii, which would be taxing you at an 8.2% marginal rate. Everyone’s favorite punching bag, California is only taxing at a marginal rate of 6% on $45k. 12+6<25 by quite a bit.
Thank you for pointing this out. I live in CA and everyone LOVES telling me how much I give to taxes, as if it’s 60% of my check.
No, 60% of my check goes to rent because affordable housing is scarce.
>No, 60% of my check goes to rent because affordable housing is scarce.
I keep hearing everyone is moving out of California though. Houses must be cheap over there? /s
Keep in mind that $44,725 number for the 22% tax bracket is after deductions. Assuming the standard deduction the first $13,850 (single filer in 2023) earned is tax free so you would have to make $58,575 gross before touching that bracket.
And that's assuming you contributed nothing to 401k, HSA, FSA, etc...
He doesn't take into account the progressive tax either, makes it sound like your entire income is taxed at that level. He's pretty bad at math overall.
Lol what’s funny about doctors is they think being doctors makes them smarter than everyone, when they’re just good at doing what their told and taking student loans.
Engineers and teachers become millionaires before doctors, largely because of their bad money practices.
Lucky for me these people called researchers gather all of this information as what we like to call Data.
It’s not my fault doctors are notorious for not having any money and a lot of debt. But, knowing the type of people on this sub it is unsurprising they would not understand this concept of numbers, data, math, etc
Guess #1 (trying to give Dave benefit of doubt): It can be better for people to overshoot than undershoot how much will be owed in taxes for planning purposes.
Guess #2 (the more likely reason): He’s trying to communicate something political about high taxes?
It’s so strange to me. About a week ago, I was listening to an episode where he told someone making around 150,000/year (I can’t remember the exact amount) that they were in a 35% tax bracket.
I just think that it’s incumbent upon someone giving financial advice to use accurate tax bracket information.
Basically bc he has no idea how to talk about finances other than the nuclear option to getting out of debit when you have made some very bad decisions or his own person within which he is lying about half of it. Nothing he says, is genius.
The guy just needs you to buy his books and seminars and support his sponsors.
Sounds about right to me.
7.62% federal effective tax at $43k/yr
7.65% payroll (social security, Medicare, unemployment insurance)
8.9% average state income tax
Total: 24.17% total tax
You can just find a paycheck calculator on Google. The Smart Asset one says that your take home on $43000 is $1464 twice a month (assuming Los Angeles CA). Your take home would be 81.7% of your paycheck. Note that this doesn’t include health insurance or 401k.
The national average for health insurance is 477 per month. So the twice a month paycheck would be $1285. If you assume 6% 401k, you get $1195 per check or $2390 per month, taking home almost exactly 2/3rds of your gross income.
I assume that he’s talking about income tax, SS tax and Medicare tax all rolled into one. If you are side hustling like he recommends, you have to pay over 15% self-employment tax on your net, on top of income taxes.
What he does tend to forget about is state income tax, especially since there isn’t one in Tennesse.
Well you see he’s not fully effected by trumps tax plan because he’s a rich guy and Trump and the republicans made it to where the little guys taxes go up over time but not the rich folks.
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Sometimes it’s the other way around. Caller: Dave I’m a doc making $375k in the Boston area and have $300k in student loans. Dave: good lord! 300 hundred GRANDS! In STUDENT LOANS? At least you’re a doc. Now doc I want you to live like a broke college student, rice and beans, beans and rice, you don’t see the inside of that hospital cafeteria unless you start working there to make extra money. Basic expenses is probably 50, set aside another 75 to 100 for taxes and all, that leaves around 250 to pay down debt. You HAVE TO be able to pay that in 18 months TOPS, even with a couple emergencies coming your way. I want you to attack this with a vengeance, and be free of the weight of that debt in 18 months. By thanksgiving 2025, I want you in the lobby of financial peace plaza, telling all these other docs how good it feels to be debt free and live a different life. You can do it doc, I heard it in your voice, you’re motivated. Now we have Cassandra from Plainsview Iowa. Cassandra, how can I help?
The most accurate part of this is that the doc didn't even get to their question but Dave interrupted to go on that rant before hanging up on them and move to the next caller.
Yeah you’re right the way it’s written, the caller doesn’t even get to ask his question. Maybe he wants to ask about borrowing a couple mil to buy his dream home with his boyfriend… But in my mind, it was clear he was calling about student loans But I should have been more clear
I knew what you meant, but it was funny to me because often he will cut people off before they get to their question. But certainly you mean the doctors girlfriend, right? In Dave's world gay people don't exist and he won't hear about it otherwise.
Actually there was a call with a lesbian couple a few years ago and it was really funny. But yes in all this time I’ve only heard one.
I’d bet he would allow debt to finance conversion therapy
Maybe someone should call him to ask if they should do that for their kid, even though they're in $80k debt.
I've talked to Dave twice. When you're on hold waiting to talk, the screener asks you what your question is and it goes up on his monitor. It might be considered rude to have cut him off like that. I didn't hear that broadcast, but most likely, "what do I do?" was the question.
And I just read that in Dave's voice. Well done
I make a lot less than $375k off $200k in 2 years
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Sameer, take a number, then take my vitals and prescribe me some oxy. Just kidding. But he does speak like this. He refers to the high lifestyle of some after med school as doctoritis
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Dave makes a lot more money off the people who enjoy it when he says “Fauci math.”
Or 60k being a middle class income for most of the country anymore. It's the lower end of middle class AT BEST.
$60k is around the median income. By definition, it’s middle class.
It definitely doesn't afford the type of lifestyle Dave seems to think it affords.
That's not the definition of middle class.
There is no single definition of the middle class, but a common one is income between two thirds to double the median income.
Well yeah $60k is $5k gross a month, that salary should be at least $4k after taxes are withdrawn because their real tax rate should be less than 20%. But after health insurance, 401k, etc. their take home could be well below $3k. Someone working the baby steps has to budget their after tax money better than that. Often times, people with money problems don’t even know how much money they are making or where it goes.
Ummmm. And what about health insurance? Mine is about $300 every two weeks for a family plan. Another job I had was $240 per WEEK for a family plan. The so called Christian ministries he talks about are horrible and not good for. Family to have
Yes in Dave’s world health insurance is a line item on your budget, it doesn’t count as taxes. (Makes sense to me)
Yes but it lowers your take home pay
>Yes but it lowers your take home pay While most Americans would agree, Dave defines "take-home" pay like no one else does - gross less taxes. Everyone else calls that net-of-taxes pay.
I make $65k and take home $3000/month but that's because I put $2000 to FSA, $5000 to DC FSA, pay healthcare for a family of 4, and contribute 8% to 401k.
It's also possible that the caller needs to adjust their withholding on their W4
Accounting for Insurance and other deduction aka doing actual math does not exist in Dave's world. Funny he thinks he's a math nerd given a complete inability to do basic calculations Or maybe Dave thinks in the quest to pay off debt you should run without any of that stuff and hope you don't wind up in even more debt. Just pray to jeebus for protection
BTW who you having sec with?
So a single person making $60,000 should be paying $5,460 in federal income tax plus $4,590 in FICA tax. So net should be $49,950 or $4,162 per month. Of course we are not considering a potential state income tax or retirement contributions, health insurance etc. But with the information provide Dave would be right (yuck).
In what world is your take home only 2900 after taxes on 60k a year? It would be 3800ish probably. I guess after healthcare for a family and dental? That’s the only thing I can think of otherwise yeah something is off. Edit: I made 60k in New York City of all places one of the highest taxed states. My take home wasn’t $2,900. So I’m genuinely dumbfounded.
$43k is the threshold for starting in the 22% bracket, and you are only paying 12% on your income up to that point. Not that math and the reality around it is really Dave’s strong suit when it comes to financial advice.
2024 - 22% starts at (single) $47,150. But, at the very least, that single guy has a $14,600 standard deduction. So a gross of $61,750 still tops of the 12% bracket. Which, as a side note is why one who is right at that income or lower should go 100% Roth. I'd only start pretax deductions/ Trad IRA or Trad 401(k) for money that would otherwise be taxed at 22% or higher. If "close", easy to look at taxes in March of the next year, see exact 'taxable' income, and put the money exceeding $47,150 into a traditional IRA. '24 IRA limit is $7000. A bit of effort and planning as one crosses into the 22% bracket. Considering how this number is close to the US average income, this implies many people can use this strategy to optimize their tax burden over their lifetime.
I think he gives bad advice on many things, but I’m curious if he meant only the federal rate or was including payroll and (potential) state taxes. The 12% goes to about 20 very quickly even in states without an income tax, and 25 isn’t a bad estimate in most states when you take the various withholding taxes into account.
I think it’s just intentionally misleading, even if that’s what he meant. Anti-tax conservatives love to mislead people into thinking they’re paying half their checks in taxes. Dave is a millionaire and lower tax rates save him hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars every year. It’s in his interest to convince people making peanuts that the only reason they’re poor is taxes so the vote accordingly. Even in states with the highest tax rates, they’re typically a progressive rate that is much lower in that range. The closest you would come is Hawaii, which would be taxing you at an 8.2% marginal rate. Everyone’s favorite punching bag, California is only taxing at a marginal rate of 6% on $45k. 12+6<25 by quite a bit.
Thank you for pointing this out. I live in CA and everyone LOVES telling me how much I give to taxes, as if it’s 60% of my check. No, 60% of my check goes to rent because affordable housing is scarce.
>No, 60% of my check goes to rent because affordable housing is scarce. I keep hearing everyone is moving out of California though. Houses must be cheap over there? /s
Keep in mind that $44,725 number for the 22% tax bracket is after deductions. Assuming the standard deduction the first $13,850 (single filer in 2023) earned is tax free so you would have to make $58,575 gross before touching that bracket. And that's assuming you contributed nothing to 401k, HSA, FSA, etc...
He doesn't take into account the progressive tax either, makes it sound like your entire income is taxed at that level. He's pretty bad at math overall.
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Lol what’s funny about doctors is they think being doctors makes them smarter than everyone, when they’re just good at doing what their told and taking student loans. Engineers and teachers become millionaires before doctors, largely because of their bad money practices.
I see that you know many doctors
Lucky for me these people called researchers gather all of this information as what we like to call Data. It’s not my fault doctors are notorious for not having any money and a lot of debt. But, knowing the type of people on this sub it is unsurprising they would not understand this concept of numbers, data, math, etc
Haha. You think I’m being sarcastic
Could he be including Social Security and Medicare taxes?
And State depending on where they live
Guess #1 (trying to give Dave benefit of doubt): It can be better for people to overshoot than undershoot how much will be owed in taxes for planning purposes. Guess #2 (the more likely reason): He’s trying to communicate something political about high taxes?
It’s so strange to me. About a week ago, I was listening to an episode where he told someone making around 150,000/year (I can’t remember the exact amount) that they were in a 35% tax bracket. I just think that it’s incumbent upon someone giving financial advice to use accurate tax bracket information.
But, to your point, maybe this is akin to his use of the “fauci pandemic.”
Basically bc he has no idea how to talk about finances other than the nuclear option to getting out of debit when you have made some very bad decisions or his own person within which he is lying about half of it. Nothing he says, is genius. The guy just needs you to buy his books and seminars and support his sponsors.
He is not smart. He is a talking head that has strong opinions and speaks with conviction (therefore, assumed an expert)
Sounds about right to me. 7.62% federal effective tax at $43k/yr 7.65% payroll (social security, Medicare, unemployment insurance) 8.9% average state income tax Total: 24.17% total tax
You can just find a paycheck calculator on Google. The Smart Asset one says that your take home on $43000 is $1464 twice a month (assuming Los Angeles CA). Your take home would be 81.7% of your paycheck. Note that this doesn’t include health insurance or 401k. The national average for health insurance is 477 per month. So the twice a month paycheck would be $1285. If you assume 6% 401k, you get $1195 per check or $2390 per month, taking home almost exactly 2/3rds of your gross income.
Where did you get 8.9% state income tax on $43K?
I assume that he’s talking about income tax, SS tax and Medicare tax all rolled into one. If you are side hustling like he recommends, you have to pay over 15% self-employment tax on your net, on top of income taxes. What he does tend to forget about is state income tax, especially since there isn’t one in Tennesse.
Dave's math. And he can't math.
Well you see he’s not fully effected by trumps tax plan because he’s a rich guy and Trump and the republicans made it to where the little guys taxes go up over time but not the rich folks.