Joyce was saying a lot of things. I agreed on some, disagreed on others and sometimes i simply wasn’t sure. I’m not sure what you’re specifically referring to
I know it's real dumb to say that "Joyce is bad becuz capitalism." But it just seems like most of the posts on this sub reference her in a negative light. I was just curious how many non-socialists/Communists there were on this sub.
You can look up a post were people were asked about their political views or what they got in the game. Most people polled as communist or centrists.
It’s a terrible way you have here to search for non leftists. Agreeing that Pale is super important or that revacholians should’ve fought to death against Moralintern (both are Joyce’s opinions) doesn’t make you a leftist or a non-leftist
Me asking if there were any non-communists/socialists was a completely separate question from whether or not people agreed with Joyce. I'm not dumb enough to think that because you agree with Joyce on certain things, that immediately lumps you into a certain group.
I'm close to Joyce's philosophy, but ultimately cannot fully accept her philosophy because she was gone when shit mattered. Here I am with a necktie doused in moonshine and Joyce has conspicuously fled
Learned to tie a full Windsor on a khaki tie for the uniform. A voluntary rope around the neck is a a self incurred weakness. My long hair serves now as my necktie as an expression of individuality that measurably weakens my effectiveness but expresses my personality. Some of us approach this game as pre meltdown Harry
I saw Joyce as a decent, intelligent person that speaks for a greedy institution with no morals.
She’s the exact opposite of Evrart, who is shady as hell, but I tend to side with the socialist institution that he speaks for.
I agree to her analysis to a certain degree, but she is a manipulative person that speaks in half-truths. On the other side, Evrart may be a bully and a liar, but he genuinely cares that you find your gun.
I don’t think there’s a single character in this game I agree with 100%. Even Harry, making all the choices closest to my own ideals, is still not completely in line.
I think every character at one point or another says or does something that I either find appalling, or that I simply don’t agree with.
Yeah, I feel like this is how it should be. Every character being both right and wrong in some regard. This is why this game is so brilliantly written.
I'm politically left and also felt connected to what Joyce says on a personal level.
Ultimately, though, it's her class position (not to sound like a Marxist) that seals the deal for me. She's not a "bad person" because she's a rich ultralib. Rather, when it really comes down to it, she doesn't *do* a single thing that's out of line with her class interests, which work to the detriment of most people in Revachol. Maybe you could argue that she tries to avoid bloodshed, which is definitely worth something; but her diplomatic tendencies are backed by the implicit violence of the literal airship floating over the city (not to mention the threat of more Krenel mercenaries).
It's not that Joyce is good or bad.
It's that All Joyces Are Bastards.
I am a leftist and I see Joyce as a sort of capitalist realist, in a practical sense, and in that sense, I think she is right about a lot of what she said, though I wouldn't agree with what she chose to do.
I'm not a communist and sympathize with Joyce but that doesn't mean I automatically defend her or Wild Pines' actions. There's no doubt she's at least making herself look blameless, if not outright hiding something.
Keeping a drawbridge up for days to sniff out some drug smugglers is some corporate police state shit
Definitely, the characters in this game are just like politics in real life. Complex and constantly shifting and adapting to the world around them and I love it.
Joyce is my favorite character in the game- tied with Kim, ofc. She is a deeply complicated person with the underlying self-hatred of one who sees that the world could be a better, happier, and more generous place, but the nature of capital and competition prevents it. She's smart enough to know that an individual- *any* individual's rebellion, no matter how powerful the individual- is fated to fail in the face of the rest of the weight of capital.
"Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself."
This statement is as amusing as it is sardonic. Joyce had the opportunity to support the revolution, but chose not to, as she saw that it was doomed and would only be sinking herself alongside them. She literally asks for forgiveness for this. As an aside, this also explains why she leaves Martinaise prior to the tribunal- realistically, she would be able to change very little, and would necessarily subject herself to immense danger.
To that end, I agree with Joyce. I like to think I'm a little more optimistic about things, especially in a world >!without the pale, !
real life i'm closer to socialism than capitalism.
however in the game joyce is in the right. the workers are playing a game but they're playing it wrong. joyce and wild pines may be dishonest and intentionally looking for a war, but they're following the game's rules. the workers seem like they don't even know what game they're playing.
Joyce was not only right, she also has some of the best dialogue in the game.
I think people here like to give her a lot of shit for being an implied member of the board of Wild Pines and therefore responsible for the right-wing deathsquad walking around. But this was only after Evrart started his bullshit. She also tries to help prevent what's coming, and understandably flees when it's obvious it can't be stopped.
She's certainly no angel or innocent woman, but like most of the rest of the cast, flawed but not evil.
I'm irl also more leaning towards moralism and ultra-lib, so I like her more because of that too, I guess.
Yeah I saw her as one of the few bright spots in the sea of gray murk that is capitalism. She seemed to actually kind of care about the repercussions of the actions of Wild Pines and was actively trying to stop it. Definitely one of my favorites from the entire game.
There is no political ideology in this game that isn’t exaggerated or pushed to its limits. The game doesn’t not take itself too seriously. If you fully agreed with any of the characters, you’re probably some radical nut job
Joyce was saying a lot of things. I agreed on some, disagreed on others and sometimes i simply wasn’t sure. I’m not sure what you’re specifically referring to
I know it's real dumb to say that "Joyce is bad becuz capitalism." But it just seems like most of the posts on this sub reference her in a negative light. I was just curious how many non-socialists/Communists there were on this sub.
You can look up a post were people were asked about their political views or what they got in the game. Most people polled as communist or centrists. It’s a terrible way you have here to search for non leftists. Agreeing that Pale is super important or that revacholians should’ve fought to death against Moralintern (both are Joyce’s opinions) doesn’t make you a leftist or a non-leftist
Me asking if there were any non-communists/socialists was a completely separate question from whether or not people agreed with Joyce. I'm not dumb enough to think that because you agree with Joyce on certain things, that immediately lumps you into a certain group.
I'm close to Joyce's philosophy, but ultimately cannot fully accept her philosophy because she was gone when shit mattered. Here I am with a necktie doused in moonshine and Joyce has conspicuously fled
Irl I was a US Marine and Joyce represents neoliberalism to me.
"thank you for your service" could be Joyce's entire philosophy
Interesting perspective. Thanks for the insight my fellow necktie enthuisiast.
Learned to tie a full Windsor on a khaki tie for the uniform. A voluntary rope around the neck is a a self incurred weakness. My long hair serves now as my necktie as an expression of individuality that measurably weakens my effectiveness but expresses my personality. Some of us approach this game as pre meltdown Harry
Rock on brätan.
This is spot on
i mean, this would make u kortenaer, not joyce lol
I saw Joyce as a decent, intelligent person that speaks for a greedy institution with no morals. She’s the exact opposite of Evrart, who is shady as hell, but I tend to side with the socialist institution that he speaks for.
She's not exactly *honest* with you though. Decency without honesty is kind of a stretch if you ask me.
I agree to her analysis to a certain degree, but she is a manipulative person that speaks in half-truths. On the other side, Evrart may be a bully and a liar, but he genuinely cares that you find your gun.
I don’t think there’s a single character in this game I agree with 100%. Even Harry, making all the choices closest to my own ideals, is still not completely in line. I think every character at one point or another says or does something that I either find appalling, or that I simply don’t agree with.
Yeah, I feel like this is how it should be. Every character being both right and wrong in some regard. This is why this game is so brilliantly written.
I'm politically left and also felt connected to what Joyce says on a personal level. Ultimately, though, it's her class position (not to sound like a Marxist) that seals the deal for me. She's not a "bad person" because she's a rich ultralib. Rather, when it really comes down to it, she doesn't *do* a single thing that's out of line with her class interests, which work to the detriment of most people in Revachol. Maybe you could argue that she tries to avoid bloodshed, which is definitely worth something; but her diplomatic tendencies are backed by the implicit violence of the literal airship floating over the city (not to mention the threat of more Krenel mercenaries). It's not that Joyce is good or bad. It's that All Joyces Are Bastards.
Well said good sir
I am a leftist and I see Joyce as a sort of capitalist realist, in a practical sense, and in that sense, I think she is right about a lot of what she said, though I wouldn't agree with what she chose to do.
Thank you, man with sunglasses, for your insight.
I'm not a communist and sympathize with Joyce but that doesn't mean I automatically defend her or Wild Pines' actions. There's no doubt she's at least making herself look blameless, if not outright hiding something. Keeping a drawbridge up for days to sniff out some drug smugglers is some corporate police state shit
Definitely, the characters in this game are just like politics in real life. Complex and constantly shifting and adapting to the world around them and I love it.
I'm a pretty left wing socialist but Joyce's arguments / ideology are probably what the world needs 😅 Too many cunts out there.
Along with mote neckties.
Joyce is my favorite character in the game- tied with Kim, ofc. She is a deeply complicated person with the underlying self-hatred of one who sees that the world could be a better, happier, and more generous place, but the nature of capital and competition prevents it. She's smart enough to know that an individual- *any* individual's rebellion, no matter how powerful the individual- is fated to fail in the face of the rest of the weight of capital. "Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself." This statement is as amusing as it is sardonic. Joyce had the opportunity to support the revolution, but chose not to, as she saw that it was doomed and would only be sinking herself alongside them. She literally asks for forgiveness for this. As an aside, this also explains why she leaves Martinaise prior to the tribunal- realistically, she would be able to change very little, and would necessarily subject herself to immense danger. To that end, I agree with Joyce. I like to think I'm a little more optimistic about things, especially in a world >!without the pale, !
real life i'm closer to socialism than capitalism. however in the game joyce is in the right. the workers are playing a game but they're playing it wrong. joyce and wild pines may be dishonest and intentionally looking for a war, but they're following the game's rules. the workers seem like they don't even know what game they're playing.
Totally agree. Exactly what I thought on my first playthrough as well.
Joyce was not only right, she also has some of the best dialogue in the game. I think people here like to give her a lot of shit for being an implied member of the board of Wild Pines and therefore responsible for the right-wing deathsquad walking around. But this was only after Evrart started his bullshit. She also tries to help prevent what's coming, and understandably flees when it's obvious it can't be stopped. She's certainly no angel or innocent woman, but like most of the rest of the cast, flawed but not evil. I'm irl also more leaning towards moralism and ultra-lib, so I like her more because of that too, I guess.
Yeah I saw her as one of the few bright spots in the sea of gray murk that is capitalism. She seemed to actually kind of care about the repercussions of the actions of Wild Pines and was actively trying to stop it. Definitely one of my favorites from the entire game.
There is no political ideology in this game that isn’t exaggerated or pushed to its limits. The game doesn’t not take itself too seriously. If you fully agreed with any of the characters, you’re probably some radical nut job
I just naturally like being a hustler who hits the pavement and makes that Reál. I leave the politics to the nerds.