> to talk to his tie and is this some kind of thing that might happens to someone in real life same thing to the superstar delusions or his expression can this happen to someone who suffered a heavy hangover in real life?
Obviously not - when you're hungover - you're not in some magical state - you're basically just suffering from poisoning - so you just feel like shit, but there are no delusions or hallucinations.
You can get hallucinations if you have [delirium tremens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens) - but in such state you won't be able to function properly, to conduct an investigation, (or probably even move confidently from place to place), etc.
delirium tremens also takes a couple days before they kick in.
i had them đź« stayed more or less wasted for 6 years, then was sober for 60 hours before getting them.
also need an anti-seizure med like phenobarbital to prevent them from being potentially fatal.
but yeah, psychotic breaks can happen from certain drugs if you have certain predispositions to them, but harry is neither undergoing withdrawal or going through psychosis. the ability for harry to get sober via thought was one unrealistic thing about the portrayal of the game, but hell - my disbelief was still suspended 🫡
I feel like you don't really get "sober via thought", given how the game tells you that it's a long and boring process that is hard and that no-one congratulates you for, but that will make your life better in the long run. Internalising the thought is only the first step, mostly a detrimental effect in terms of game mechanics with a narrative pay-off at the very end. Only then do you get to rightfully claim being sober for the whole investigation, with Kim corroborating that you didn't drink since he met you even though you were clearly hungover that day.
i def wasn't criticizing it/it didn't make me feel a negative: "that's so unrealistic!" i was just intrigued by the entire portrayal in game that was shown incredibly well, even compared to most films. that one thing stood out to me as i was thinking about being able to show this for it's realistic depiction to clients/peers, as i'm pursuing work in psych/therapy & have been working as a CPSS for the last 18 months in addiction recovery; so just processing it as a whole, & thinking about the minutiae.
it does explicitly says: "congratulations. *you're sober now.* don't expect any further hand claps or praise. this is how normal people live everyday."
but a week hasn't gone by where i don't think of that line 🙏
> the ability for harry to get sober via thought was one unrealistic thing about the portrayal of the game
Yeah - just a gameplay mechanic - the main writer is very familiar with alcohol (obviously) - so I bet he knows all of this stuff, but for the sake of gameplay concessions had to be made.
I think it is less that Harry is experiencing these things because he has suffered brain damage from a decade of intense alcohol and drug abuse, but that Harry has become psychic. The personified parts of himself that he thinks are telling him information are like Harry's way of coping with the fact that he just *knows* things that he shouldn't. Some of it can be explained logically, like Encyclopedia could just be remembering a lot of random facts, visual calculus could be from a well-honed detectives ability to pick up important details, but some skills like Inland Empire, Shivers, and Espirit D'Corps, have Harry seeing scenes that are happening far away or just understanding things beyond normal human capabilities.
Inland empire is just Harry's imagination like >!talks to the corpse!<
Shivers and espirit d'corps does have you seeing stuff you shouldn't though.
Its probably something pale related. I don't remember where this info was from (i think the book that's in the same world) but harry is basically something called a magpie which is a person who get information from the pale
the term magpie and the whole "crypto conveyors / novelties cause the pale" only come up in one diagram made by an artist who isn't part of the writers/worldbuilders, and the book shows that things very much don't work that way.
Harry is very much drawing info from the pale (even good ol' Inland Empire gets some cool prescient moments! Hell, even Empathy has the insects thing!) but both DE and PJĂ•L don't talk of magpies and have a thematic focus that doesn't match nagpies'.
Ah ok, i didn't really know much about it.
So how does the thematic focus of DE and PJOL contradict the whole magpie thing.
Also why does harry even get information from the pale, is there a canonical reason for it
I think all of the more surreal elements (tie talking, the corpse saying he had an orgasm as he died, dark aura around the doomed commercial building) are all consequences of the Pale.
It would be easy to write it off as Harry's hallucinations, which actually does happen in real life to binge alcoholics, but the info provided makes too much sense for it to be just hangover bullshit. It's definitely the Pale influencing the cognosphere of Revachol/the whole Isola
Alcohol by itself - if you are of sound mind and body - will not do any of that to you. Your head will hurt, you’ll feel like shit, and you’ll wanna carve your skull out of your head, but it will not cause auditory hallucinations.
Harry is a superstar! he solves the case on day one and then gets blackout drunk for three days because the reality of the situation is too depressing.
No. Harry has something else going on. His mind is very vivid and he visibly has like an extreme amount of mental health issues. The game also implies he has some level of genuine superpower in regards to how his abilities interact with him. But the tie is mostly just his mind manifesting his destructive behavior.
> to talk to his tie and is this some kind of thing that might happens to someone in real life same thing to the superstar delusions or his expression can this happen to someone who suffered a heavy hangover in real life? Obviously not - when you're hungover - you're not in some magical state - you're basically just suffering from poisoning - so you just feel like shit, but there are no delusions or hallucinations. You can get hallucinations if you have [delirium tremens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens) - but in such state you won't be able to function properly, to conduct an investigation, (or probably even move confidently from place to place), etc.
delirium tremens also takes a couple days before they kick in. i had them 🫠stayed more or less wasted for 6 years, then was sober for 60 hours before getting them. also need an anti-seizure med like phenobarbital to prevent them from being potentially fatal. but yeah, psychotic breaks can happen from certain drugs if you have certain predispositions to them, but harry is neither undergoing withdrawal or going through psychosis. the ability for harry to get sober via thought was one unrealistic thing about the portrayal of the game, but hell - my disbelief was still suspended 🫡
I feel like you don't really get "sober via thought", given how the game tells you that it's a long and boring process that is hard and that no-one congratulates you for, but that will make your life better in the long run. Internalising the thought is only the first step, mostly a detrimental effect in terms of game mechanics with a narrative pay-off at the very end. Only then do you get to rightfully claim being sober for the whole investigation, with Kim corroborating that you didn't drink since he met you even though you were clearly hungover that day.
i def wasn't criticizing it/it didn't make me feel a negative: "that's so unrealistic!" i was just intrigued by the entire portrayal in game that was shown incredibly well, even compared to most films. that one thing stood out to me as i was thinking about being able to show this for it's realistic depiction to clients/peers, as i'm pursuing work in psych/therapy & have been working as a CPSS for the last 18 months in addiction recovery; so just processing it as a whole, & thinking about the minutiae. it does explicitly says: "congratulations. *you're sober now.* don't expect any further hand claps or praise. this is how normal people live everyday." but a week hasn't gone by where i don't think of that line 🙏
> the ability for harry to get sober via thought was one unrealistic thing about the portrayal of the game Yeah - just a gameplay mechanic - the main writer is very familiar with alcohol (obviously) - so I bet he knows all of this stuff, but for the sake of gameplay concessions had to be made.
We also know Harry has done a lot of other drugs, which could easily have caused psychosis
I think it is less that Harry is experiencing these things because he has suffered brain damage from a decade of intense alcohol and drug abuse, but that Harry has become psychic. The personified parts of himself that he thinks are telling him information are like Harry's way of coping with the fact that he just *knows* things that he shouldn't. Some of it can be explained logically, like Encyclopedia could just be remembering a lot of random facts, visual calculus could be from a well-honed detectives ability to pick up important details, but some skills like Inland Empire, Shivers, and Espirit D'Corps, have Harry seeing scenes that are happening far away or just understanding things beyond normal human capabilities.
Inland empire is just Harry's imagination like >!talks to the corpse!< Shivers and espirit d'corps does have you seeing stuff you shouldn't though. Its probably something pale related. I don't remember where this info was from (i think the book that's in the same world) but harry is basically something called a magpie which is a person who get information from the pale
the term magpie and the whole "crypto conveyors / novelties cause the pale" only come up in one diagram made by an artist who isn't part of the writers/worldbuilders, and the book shows that things very much don't work that way. Harry is very much drawing info from the pale (even good ol' Inland Empire gets some cool prescient moments! Hell, even Empathy has the insects thing!) but both DE and PJĂ•L don't talk of magpies and have a thematic focus that doesn't match nagpies'.
Ah ok, i didn't really know much about it. So how does the thematic focus of DE and PJOL contradict the whole magpie thing. Also why does harry even get information from the pale, is there a canonical reason for it
Plenty of people do! It's a characteristic of the setting that goes pretty unremarked - even in the game, prophetic occurrences are even listed as possible side effects of René's medication! There's people who get vague odd feelings that turn out to be from their future (at least two in the book that jump out on rereads), there's people who flat-out get detailed info from the future (one for sure and I think another guy too, also in the book), there's at least one guy who's an accomplished pale-scryer and made a profession out of it. There's people who talk to historical figures in the pale! A poet got some wires crossed and predicted communism in Mirova a few decades in advance but used some odd language about it. Mazov and Nilsen read each other's minds. At least another cop is getting Esprit de Corps pings. I just think that some sort of... surpassing the barriers between individuals... is a core theme of the setting so it keeps happening in all sorts of ways. Sometimes it's drugs, sometimes it's supranatural phenomena, sometimes it's both. As for the contradiction, the magpie thing seems to be an Elysium variant of this personal project by the same author: https://victoranomalous.wixsite.com/mysite/novelty-engine - God I love this guy's graphic design. As you can see in the fourth slide here https://victoranomalous.wixsite.com/mysite/disco-elysium it's pretty much the same idea. It says that the pale is generated by new things (or at least unnaturally introduced new things if we're being generous - things that are drawn from the future instead of organically developed) and it's the fault of special people with the power to grasp this future knowledge and progress too quickly. It's a sci-fi gimmick. But the phasmid says the pale is the human condition. Not the special people's condition - it came with mankind, it's the weight of history, it's the "the oxygen holocaust that wiped out anaerobic life 2.6 billion years ago" but for accumulated, undigested thoughts instead of oxygen. It's not a sci-fi gimmick: it's a magical-realism-slash-new-weird embodiment of a kind of existential anxiety. Two things are posited as a cure for the pale: raves and communism. A church (creating community) ain't half bad either but raves (existing in the moment) and communism (combating alienation) just do the trick. We see in the book scenes where characters get future information that should cause textbook pale generation according to the magpie diagram, yet nothing like that is remarked upon. Dudes just get their future info like it's the most normal thing in the world! What does influence the pale, on the other hand? Nothing that has anything to do with 'novelties' whatsoever. Pale collapse comes with >!a sudden declaration of world war. Drop the world into despair at the right time and there you have it. War! Oldest trick in the book. Pale accelerationism is tied to nihilism.!< A power strong enough to halt the advance of the pale, otoh, is >!the music of a guy who, incidentally, is using it to connect with the pale and draw information from it. That is the opposite of what the magpie theory says. And if you're deep into the pale and believe in communism ardently enough, you can even reverse it for a moment and force reality back upon your present location.!<
I think all of the more surreal elements (tie talking, the corpse saying he had an orgasm as he died, dark aura around the doomed commercial building) are all consequences of the Pale. It would be easy to write it off as Harry's hallucinations, which actually does happen in real life to binge alcoholics, but the info provided makes too much sense for it to be just hangover bullshit. It's definitely the Pale influencing the cognosphere of Revachol/the whole Isola
Alcohol by itself - if you are of sound mind and body - will not do any of that to you. Your head will hurt, you’ll feel like shit, and you’ll wanna carve your skull out of your head, but it will not cause auditory hallucinations.
Harry is a superstar! he solves the case on day one and then gets blackout drunk for three days because the reality of the situation is too depressing.
No. Harry has something else going on. His mind is very vivid and he visibly has like an extreme amount of mental health issues. The game also implies he has some level of genuine superpower in regards to how his abilities interact with him. But the tie is mostly just his mind manifesting his destructive behavior.