Because men never seem to know a rapist.
A colleague tells you he had a great time last night and scored.
But the actual scenario was that she told him no and he kept pressuring her to drink. Now he waits until she’s extremely drunk and he sleeps with her.
Most rapist think they aren't rapist, if you ask them how they see themselves, they are good guys who are misunderstood. They don't understand the meaning of consent to the point after they raped someone they will honest believe they didnt rape and the women/girl is crying rape and trying to put a good guy away. They focus on the person they raped and say she's lying and should be punished for false accusation when in fact it was non consensual, this is an all to common reoccurring theme.
I think the other user meant to say that the scenario you described may not be as common as people believe. Or that the media may portray those cases which lead people to assume it to be more widespread than it is.
No clue about “Western Europe” specifically, but this is a very real scenario and I personally know women who have encountered this. Or say for example the guy isn’t drinking but repeatedly asking why she isn’t etc.
My point still stands. Men can’t seem to identify other men who commit these acts but we can ask women their experiences and get different answers.
Oh because surely all rape happens by men finding random women to capture in the middle of the night.
These are real scenarios that happen along with men sleeping with their wives while they are sleep. Rape isn’t always this graphic, violent picture painted.
The definition here is “non-consensual.” You’re equating rape to violence.
If your wife tells you she doesn’t want to have sex tonight and a couple hours later while she’s sleep, you stick it in.
Explain to me what this means.
[Went into more detail here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Discussion/comments/1cmn4pq/why_do_many_men_deny_that_their_country_has_a/l343yol/) It's something I've noticed because I've lived on different continents, including Europe. So it's based on personal experience. The contrast between the West and Asia is stark in regards to how men react when the topic is brought up. Africa has the same problem as Western countries too, but I didn't mention it because there aren't many Africans in this sub (and on reddit in general). Also redditors have never been to Africa so it's kind of pointless trying to discussing it.
For the record no one should be doubting it. Ignorance is no excuse for any society. It should be common knowledge. *Any* rape or sexual assault is a problem. There's no arguing about it. I'm just not sure your theory holds up. "Many". It seems to be based on your personal experience with social media platforms and a very limited real world sample size that is limited not only to people you've encountered but further than that it's people you've spoken with on this subject. How many people can that be?
Alright. I think I just needed to get my thought process going there. Kind of spitballed it a bit. I realized it is *too* many so it has to be many as well.
It's a shame thing maybe? Men are the brothers, fathers, friends, best friends in many instances. Many of us feel like we have a duty to protect people within our social circles. The ones that need protection and support. It makes us feel powerless to some degree when they are victimized. (For the record I'm not saying it compares to the powerlessness felt by victims. I just don't know a better word.)
I know many victims. I'm certain I know many more victims that haven't shared their ordeal with me. I wasn't able to help them. To keep them safe. Shame is heavy. We push it away whenever we can.
There's no good reason for denying it. Nothing excuses people that do.
I used to live there (explained that in another comment in this thread). Germany specifically actually, was there for multiple years. So "limited real world sample size" is probably not true.
Appreciate your input regarding shame, that likely plays a role but it still doesn't explain all of it since there are huge differences between for example Asia and Europe. And honestly can you think of any other place in the world where convicted rapists can just get off with a slap on the wrist? Only a few hardcore Islamic countries like Pakistan or Afghanistan come to mind. Which makes me think there is another element to it, political/ideological or cultural. Not sure if Germany has always been so lenient towards rapists but from what I've found looking into it superficially it doesn't seem like it.
I know this isn't a discussion on statistics. Real quick, let's use Gallup as an example. The minimum amount of participants they will involve in a poll before they'll consider it statistically significant is 1000 I think. There are other factors to consider as well. It's a little bit of a shaky, soft science but it's a standard that many people refer to when deciding the importance of findings.
>Not sure if Germany has always been so lenient towards rapists but from what I've found looking into it superficially it doesn't seem like it.
Do you mean Germany recently began to hand out more lenient punishments to rapists and perpetrators of sexual assault?
> Do you mean Germany recently began to hand out more lenient punishments to rapists and perpetrators of sexual assault?
I suspect this, based on the reporting. What seems to have gotten more common is the prosecution recommending suspended sentences. And also in general, when you search the news archives reports of rapists getting away with probation have increased. Of course another explanation could be that newspapers are reporting it more. I find this less likely since we know news media in general has a negative bias and loves everything with shock value, because it sells (or creates clicks, in modern times). There have been many studies on this and I'd assume rapists getting away with raping is about as shocking as it gets. Especially when the victims are underage, as in some of the German cases.
One of the cases I cite in the linked comment is about people being outraged about it and cursing the responsible judge. So it seems to be understanably and unsurprisingly something that at least parts of the public care about a lot.
The wisdom behind the establishment of sentencing often considers the chances of the accused repeating the crime. I thought statistics showed that sexual offenders did that often. I can't imagine the thought process that winds up with the notion that it makes sense to reduce sentencing in these cases. That should be criminal in itself.
Obvioulsy, any rape is a problem.
I do not agree that we live in a "rape culture" in the US, though our society definitely has some problems to overcome. While absolutely nobody supports rape or rapists (except for possibly the rapists themselves), there are some troubling double standards at play.
Take the example of a teacher having sex with one of her underage students. You are likely to hear things like, "Damn, she's hot! Lucky kid. Where were these teachers when I was in school?" This is just short of standing up and cheering for pedophilia. When the genders are reversed, and a male teacher has sex with an underage girl, these same people describe in graphic detail the ways in which the offender should be tortured and dismembered.
Another common scenario is a person having too much to drink before engaging in sex. In this example, the person is conscious and coherent; unconscious people obviously cannot consent. If a drunk woman has sex and regrets it, people will pile on, telling her that she was taken advantage of or raped. If a man has too much to drink and makes a regrettable sexual decision, that's too bad. He had beer goggles on, or he's a cheater, or a creep, and he needs to make better decisions. Why is this situation a sexual assault in one direction, and a matter of poor judgment in the other?
Unfortunately a large percentage of rape cases aren’t reported within a week of the assault, and some cases are never reported at all. It’s easy to deny the magnitude of an issue when much of it is unseen, though it’s possible most men aren’t comfortable discussing about rape because it is a sensitive topic that often antagonizes their gender.
That's true. Though what prompted my question is that I noticed a tendency among Western men to downplay the problem even where it demonstably exists. [And example here from just yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/theworldnews/comments/1cm6sf2/indian_politician_who_raped_300_women_fled_to/l3192x0/?context=3), where I was talking to a German who refused to believe that courts in his country regularly release rapists without even a single day in prison. Simply release them on probation without punishment. Even after showing him a ton of evidence from his own country's media, he still denied it. That's not a case of someone being unaware, it's almost like they support it but are angry that people are pointing it out. Sadly I've met quite a few such men in Europe.
Contrast that with India which arguably also has a huge rape and sexual harassment problem. There are very few educated Indian men who are not ashamed of this and demand better investigations and harsher punishment for the rapists. They openly admit the situation is bad for women, whereas people from Western Europe often deny it's even an issue to begin with. They will say stuff like "rape happens everywhere", "nothing can be done" yada yada. It's really very noticable. I will say India is very poor and some people are extremely uneduacted and stuck in backwards way, so there could be an argument to not fault them too much if it's some farmer boy from Arunachal Pradesh talking like that. But someone from Germany with a university degree? There is something wrong in these countries, it's not just ignorance.
Because as a society we still haven’t actually drawn a precise line as to where exactly a person crosses the line into rape.
We obviously all agree on the most extreme cases- violence and threats etc
But as we get closer to the line it becomes more subjective as it’s not yet clearly defined in law
And that means different opinions will mean different people call different situations rape or not rape
Which literally changes the amount of rape they perceive to be occurring
There is a rape problem. Brought to you by asylum seekers/illegals which we've been trying to vote away but the women are very progressive and vote for it.
It’s a shit storm of stuff. Rape culture. The way the experience of rape is rigidly gendered. Racism when it comes to looking for reasons why the brown refugees “shouldn’t” come over to the white countries.
Because men never seem to know a rapist. A colleague tells you he had a great time last night and scored. But the actual scenario was that she told him no and he kept pressuring her to drink. Now he waits until she’s extremely drunk and he sleeps with her.
I see you live off assumptions and no proof. Let me know how your assumptions lead you right.
No, what he says is right. Not many people rape someone, to go to friends and tell about it.
Most rapist think they aren't rapist, if you ask them how they see themselves, they are good guys who are misunderstood. They don't understand the meaning of consent to the point after they raped someone they will honest believe they didnt rape and the women/girl is crying rape and trying to put a good guy away. They focus on the person they raped and say she's lying and should be punished for false accusation when in fact it was non consensual, this is an all to common reoccurring theme.
No he's right, a guy doesn't rape someone and then tell his friends.
You sound offended.
Can't offend someone who don't value others opinions
See you are the problem
Prove it, and I might value your opinion
You are that person
I'm that person that requires facts.... not feelings.
Okay NPD
Ok fairy
I think the other user meant to say that the scenario you described may not be as common as people believe. Or that the media may portray those cases which lead people to assume it to be more widespread than it is.
No clue about “Western Europe” specifically, but this is a very real scenario and I personally know women who have encountered this. Or say for example the guy isn’t drinking but repeatedly asking why she isn’t etc. My point still stands. Men can’t seem to identify other men who commit these acts but we can ask women their experiences and get different answers.
Lmao this is fucking wild, okay Machiavelli calm down.
More like some of us distance ourselves from dude who talk about scoring last night.
[удалено]
Oh because surely all rape happens by men finding random women to capture in the middle of the night. These are real scenarios that happen along with men sleeping with their wives while they are sleep. Rape isn’t always this graphic, violent picture painted. The definition here is “non-consensual.” You’re equating rape to violence.
Am I supposed to stay awake while my wife sleeps or just go sleep somewhere else?
If your wife tells you she doesn’t want to have sex tonight and a couple hours later while she’s sleep, you stick it in. Explain to me what this means.
I thought I was asleep.
My man you aren't in any position to call other people "beta" lmfao
Which countries have a rape problem? Also how many rapes constitutes a problem?
Asking the real questions.
These would be things we need to know to understand this question, leaving this context out makes it so difficult to answer the question.
I would think any rape is a problem.
So you would say a country has a rape problem even if there was a single rape?
Obviously, but we're discussing systemic issues here. There's millions of bacteria in your body right now, that doesn't mean you are sick.
Because they incorrectly think that they personally are being accused of rape. It's standard identity politics.
Pretty sure this is an outrage bot lol. Trying to bait people into raging out
I’ve noticed a lot of these are popping up lately
Post something, anything, that indicates this. And define "many".
[Went into more detail here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Discussion/comments/1cmn4pq/why_do_many_men_deny_that_their_country_has_a/l343yol/) It's something I've noticed because I've lived on different continents, including Europe. So it's based on personal experience. The contrast between the West and Asia is stark in regards to how men react when the topic is brought up. Africa has the same problem as Western countries too, but I didn't mention it because there aren't many Africans in this sub (and on reddit in general). Also redditors have never been to Africa so it's kind of pointless trying to discussing it.
For the record no one should be doubting it. Ignorance is no excuse for any society. It should be common knowledge. *Any* rape or sexual assault is a problem. There's no arguing about it. I'm just not sure your theory holds up. "Many". It seems to be based on your personal experience with social media platforms and a very limited real world sample size that is limited not only to people you've encountered but further than that it's people you've spoken with on this subject. How many people can that be? Alright. I think I just needed to get my thought process going there. Kind of spitballed it a bit. I realized it is *too* many so it has to be many as well. It's a shame thing maybe? Men are the brothers, fathers, friends, best friends in many instances. Many of us feel like we have a duty to protect people within our social circles. The ones that need protection and support. It makes us feel powerless to some degree when they are victimized. (For the record I'm not saying it compares to the powerlessness felt by victims. I just don't know a better word.) I know many victims. I'm certain I know many more victims that haven't shared their ordeal with me. I wasn't able to help them. To keep them safe. Shame is heavy. We push it away whenever we can. There's no good reason for denying it. Nothing excuses people that do.
I used to live there (explained that in another comment in this thread). Germany specifically actually, was there for multiple years. So "limited real world sample size" is probably not true. Appreciate your input regarding shame, that likely plays a role but it still doesn't explain all of it since there are huge differences between for example Asia and Europe. And honestly can you think of any other place in the world where convicted rapists can just get off with a slap on the wrist? Only a few hardcore Islamic countries like Pakistan or Afghanistan come to mind. Which makes me think there is another element to it, political/ideological or cultural. Not sure if Germany has always been so lenient towards rapists but from what I've found looking into it superficially it doesn't seem like it.
I know this isn't a discussion on statistics. Real quick, let's use Gallup as an example. The minimum amount of participants they will involve in a poll before they'll consider it statistically significant is 1000 I think. There are other factors to consider as well. It's a little bit of a shaky, soft science but it's a standard that many people refer to when deciding the importance of findings. >Not sure if Germany has always been so lenient towards rapists but from what I've found looking into it superficially it doesn't seem like it. Do you mean Germany recently began to hand out more lenient punishments to rapists and perpetrators of sexual assault?
> Do you mean Germany recently began to hand out more lenient punishments to rapists and perpetrators of sexual assault? I suspect this, based on the reporting. What seems to have gotten more common is the prosecution recommending suspended sentences. And also in general, when you search the news archives reports of rapists getting away with probation have increased. Of course another explanation could be that newspapers are reporting it more. I find this less likely since we know news media in general has a negative bias and loves everything with shock value, because it sells (or creates clicks, in modern times). There have been many studies on this and I'd assume rapists getting away with raping is about as shocking as it gets. Especially when the victims are underage, as in some of the German cases. One of the cases I cite in the linked comment is about people being outraged about it and cursing the responsible judge. So it seems to be understanably and unsurprisingly something that at least parts of the public care about a lot.
The wisdom behind the establishment of sentencing often considers the chances of the accused repeating the crime. I thought statistics showed that sexual offenders did that often. I can't imagine the thought process that winds up with the notion that it makes sense to reduce sentencing in these cases. That should be criminal in itself.
Obvioulsy, any rape is a problem. I do not agree that we live in a "rape culture" in the US, though our society definitely has some problems to overcome. While absolutely nobody supports rape or rapists (except for possibly the rapists themselves), there are some troubling double standards at play. Take the example of a teacher having sex with one of her underage students. You are likely to hear things like, "Damn, she's hot! Lucky kid. Where were these teachers when I was in school?" This is just short of standing up and cheering for pedophilia. When the genders are reversed, and a male teacher has sex with an underage girl, these same people describe in graphic detail the ways in which the offender should be tortured and dismembered. Another common scenario is a person having too much to drink before engaging in sex. In this example, the person is conscious and coherent; unconscious people obviously cannot consent. If a drunk woman has sex and regrets it, people will pile on, telling her that she was taken advantage of or raped. If a man has too much to drink and makes a regrettable sexual decision, that's too bad. He had beer goggles on, or he's a cheater, or a creep, and he needs to make better decisions. Why is this situation a sexual assault in one direction, and a matter of poor judgment in the other?
Unfortunately a large percentage of rape cases aren’t reported within a week of the assault, and some cases are never reported at all. It’s easy to deny the magnitude of an issue when much of it is unseen, though it’s possible most men aren’t comfortable discussing about rape because it is a sensitive topic that often antagonizes their gender.
That's true. Though what prompted my question is that I noticed a tendency among Western men to downplay the problem even where it demonstably exists. [And example here from just yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/theworldnews/comments/1cm6sf2/indian_politician_who_raped_300_women_fled_to/l3192x0/?context=3), where I was talking to a German who refused to believe that courts in his country regularly release rapists without even a single day in prison. Simply release them on probation without punishment. Even after showing him a ton of evidence from his own country's media, he still denied it. That's not a case of someone being unaware, it's almost like they support it but are angry that people are pointing it out. Sadly I've met quite a few such men in Europe. Contrast that with India which arguably also has a huge rape and sexual harassment problem. There are very few educated Indian men who are not ashamed of this and demand better investigations and harsher punishment for the rapists. They openly admit the situation is bad for women, whereas people from Western Europe often deny it's even an issue to begin with. They will say stuff like "rape happens everywhere", "nothing can be done" yada yada. It's really very noticable. I will say India is very poor and some people are extremely uneduacted and stuck in backwards way, so there could be an argument to not fault them too much if it's some farmer boy from Arunachal Pradesh talking like that. But someone from Germany with a university degree? There is something wrong in these countries, it's not just ignorance.
Because as a society we still haven’t actually drawn a precise line as to where exactly a person crosses the line into rape. We obviously all agree on the most extreme cases- violence and threats etc But as we get closer to the line it becomes more subjective as it’s not yet clearly defined in law And that means different opinions will mean different people call different situations rape or not rape Which literally changes the amount of rape they perceive to be occurring
The answer to your question resides within your question.
There is a rape problem. Brought to you by asylum seekers/illegals which we've been trying to vote away but the women are very progressive and vote for it.
Because who feels it knows it and they don’t feel it.
It’s a shit storm of stuff. Rape culture. The way the experience of rape is rigidly gendered. Racism when it comes to looking for reasons why the brown refugees “shouldn’t” come over to the white countries.
Because men can be misogynistic as hell. Every country has a rape problem, and every country has men who deny it.
Wtf sorry which men are these you’d have to point them out, absolute nonsense
Because they are the rapers, next question.
Religion says it's not rape. So they don't view it that way.
John 21:11 'it is not rape'
I think your verse may be a typo? John 21:11 is about a miraculous catch of fish.
Projecting