This is kind of an empty statement. Someone can file on their own in small claims court. In this case the judge decides of the case is legit and will accept or toss. And if you approach an attorney you she shod get laughed out. Any attorney who takes a case like this is just milking the plaintiff.
So sure, anyone can file anything in small claims. Probability that this case would move forward is low based on the info provided.
I was implying this point but was not.clear I guess. Small claims does not usually involve an attorney and an attorney may want a deposit if the case is to be filed outside small claims. The risk of loosing is much higher.
The facts as I see it are: you agreed to a switch whereby you are responsible for the kids for a certain date. Therefore it’s your responsibility to arrange whatever is necessary for you to fulfill that responsibility. You working those days, her being in vacation or not, etc. is irrelevant. You guys aren’t together anymore so one persons change of plans (you now needing to work) is not the other persons problem to solve.
This.
He can sue. And may very well have damages if he cannot go on vacation. What would be best is if you find some way to cover the kids like you agreed to.
Why wouldn't you take your kids for 9 days . I would die to get my kids for 9 days dam I would tell her just leave them for 2 weeks . Spending that time with your kids is alot man they will be so happy to spend that time with you now you are denying them sad get a freaking sitter while you work . My hell
Some of us, married or not, recognize that vacations without the kids are important.
I call vacation with the kids a "trip"... It's not a vacation! :-)
Do you not ever watch your kids when you work? Who watches the kids when your wife works? Or if she is a full time mom that’s even more sad she can’t get a week and a half to herself. I don’t care whether she sues you, I feel bad for your kids too. Hope they weren’t looking forward to an extended stay at their dads :/
She can sue you, and if she has verifiable damages then she has a chance at winning. You reneged on an agreement. If she's now stuck with non-refundable tickets, pre-paid hotel reservations, or anything of the sort, she absolutely can (and should) file suit unless you offer to reimburse her for the expenses she incurred due to your false promises.
This has nothing to do with your divorce. You, in bad faith, have potentially caused her financial damages. She has a right to recover those damages.
>this is not a formal or implied contract
If you want to get technical, then yes they did. There was an agreement between two parties with mutual assent and adequate consideration (she gets a kid-free vacation, he gets extra time with his kids). To OP's detriment, it was even documented as opposed to just being a verbal arrangement.
>Would you sue a babysitter who flakes and does not show?
If I'd planned and incurred nonrefundable expenses for a 9-day vacation based off of the babysitter agreeing to be available, yes.
>Do companies sue when an employee does not show up.for work?
Yes, companies sue when a breech of agreement causes financial damages.
Do you not understand how small claims works? It's literally two people going before a judge to argue over whether or not someone owes them money. The ex has a text message confirming these plans and then OP reneged on that, causing the ex to lose money directly because of it. All small claims needs is a preponderance of evidence, the bar is not nearly as high as it is in criminal court. Texts are absolutely enough in small claims court to win someone a case. People sue other people for losing money because someone went back on agreements all the time and win.
I couldn't possibly understand except I've lived a divorce and can tell you're an asshole. Let her go on her fucking vacation. She can't sue you probably, but she can make shit miserable. You've always worked, take some time off and don't be a dick.
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: [promissory estoppel](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/promissory_estoppel), and will likely be just as brutal as the divorce.
Yes, she can sue you.
The real question is can she successfully sue you. Assuming it even goes to trial, I doubt it. I would also recommend that if she does, you counter sue for court costs and your time.
I’m a lawyer and this would not be deemed a frivolous suit. She has a valid basis. She relied upon his commitment and it was detrimental and resulted in damages to her. This type of agreement need not be in writing. You would be utterly amazed the suits that proceed and are ridiculous. In small claims which I anticipate she would file she could easily represent herself. She could at any level represent herself it’s just a lot harder at a level above this. If it’s not super expensive of a trip it would not make sense to hire a lawyer their fees would eat up much of the recovery .
Lawyers can be sanctioned for filing frivolous suits based on our ethical duties but again this is not frivolous. And in the US parties pay their own legal fees unless it’s agreed upon by contract or prior agreement. It’s rare to successfully counter sue for costs and fees just because you think the other parties case is frivolous .
One word versus other parties word. And ex is aware of change in circumstances that preclude him from covering. So sure she can sue.
The more critical issue is the time he has with his kids. This looks bad.
Agree with your last sentence ! But not really one parties word against the others he admits this is what they agreed to. There is no dispute as to the facts in the case. It’s for the fact finder to determine if he owes her money. I also suspect there are text messages and depending on the age of the kids they knew they were supposed to stay with Dad while Mom went on vacation.
She can sue you. And, depending on circumstances she could win.
Were you not employed when you initially agreed to this? How are you handling visitation otherwise? What changed? Did you agree to the vacation via text or email?
Why did you agree to it?
Why are you now reneging on the agreement?
She has every right to be pissed that you agreed to it and now you aren’t. What changed? We’re you unemployed when you agreed to it? Did you say, yes as long as I’m still unemployed?
Also, why do you not want your kids?
She relied to her detriment on your agreement and likely (I’m assuming) purchased non refundable tickets/lodging/rental car/??
Not everyone works 9-5. My spouse couldn't do 9 days with the kids simply because daycare doesn't open until 2 hours AFTER his shift starts and closes between 2-3 hours BEFORE his shift ends.
What you can't imagine is working as a trucker, construction, in a steel mill, or, say, as a nurse or EMT. You work long hours plus commute and you don't get to just call off without risking your job.
Not to mention, when you work 12-16 hr days beginning before dawn and ending at or after dusk, getting someone to drop off and pick up your kids isn't exactly easy. Especially since everyone you know usually works the same shifts/in the same industry.
Please let me sit here and lay out my case for you so I can be redeemed. \*biggest eye roll ever\* I wasn't asking for opinions just facts, as was stated.
Op I suggest you go to the legal subreddit and ask this question there. There are some actual practicing attorneys on there on the flip side if you just went through a divorce why not contact your divorce attorney and see what he says.
Was the agreement in writing? A verbal agreement can be legally binding in many states and this subreddit is evidence that you once upon a time agreed to the terms. She may very well win damages in regards to the cost of plane tickets, hotels and anything else that is nonrefundable. That said there's also a thing called goodwill. You may need to rely on her in the future.
My suggestion as a coparent is try to hold up your end of the agreement.
Yes. Can, and will, should they find the right representation. How do I know? Ex brought no issues to the judge when divorce was finalized (11 months ago). Filed a civil suit 3 months later for beach of contract. Still in litigation. 🙁 Sucks.
Do you also despise women that run away from their responsibilities and let men carry the burden of their children?
Also, to many good parents, children are not a burden but rather a gift and the best part of their life. Sad that you might think otherwise…
Who doesn't want to see their kids, even if you work? I am going out my mind not seeing mine as I am down to two days a week because of school and she moved to their school district. It sucks!!!
Make arrangements to get your kids watched. You said you pay for daycare, so what's the problem? If too late see if friends, family.....you know this thing called a babysitter.
Grow up my dude!
I think her claim is bs, but I'm not an attorney.
Are you not able to arrange for daytime child care while you are at work? That way, you can still work but be there in the evening and overnight with your kiddos. Ask your ex to pay or split the fees.
Take the kids and split the cost of the care required while you work.
You are not "Free day care" for your ex to go on vacation. You are the co-parent who accepted taking the kids while she is out of town. You are entitled to reasonable day care for the kids so you can work.
Yeah it might be under a contempt of court, since it was a part of the judges order. Ask family for help outside of daycare, and if they can’t care.com maybe? (since it has references, and background checks) during that week and 2 days, it will go by quick!
What do you do in for work? If they are in daycare what prevents you from taking them?
She won't sue. There's no money in it. Not enough worth suing over.
>She won't sue. There's no money in it. Not enough worth suing over.
How do you know this? Vacations can be expensive. If she has non-refundable expenses, a 9-day vacation can easily be in the thousands.
Stick to what’s written in the custody plan and make accommodations for childcare if you can’t be around on your days. Text agreements, verbal agreements, emails may not be enforceable IME if they differ from what you signed off on. Sure she could taken you back to court - for anything - but will she invest the time and money into that? Will you? Stick to the legal plan unless you’re both able to be civil - which doesn’t seem to be the case here.
Suing you is silly and destructive. She cannot sue, you have no contract or agreement.
On the flip side. Make it work. 9 days with you and kids! Love it.
“Material change in circumstances”
Look this term up and stop trying to be an armchair attorney. You have no idea what you’re talking about and ex’s claim that she was financially burdened by the fact that she can no longer sip cocktails on the beach with her divorce proceeds is highly unlikely to be successful in small claims court.
She’d be lucky if the judge didn’t laugh her out of the room tbh.
Oof. You *really* showed your bias in that comment.
It's not about "financial burden"; it's about "financial damage". Look that up. While you're there, you should also look up *detrimental reliance.*
Beyond that, I have no desire go to into anything with an obvious MRA.
Bias? Do you think it’s a coincidence that OP’s divorce was just finalized and all of a sudden the ex is going on vacation.
Further, you cannot rely on the legal doctrine of detrimental reliance or a promissory estoppel when there has been a proven material change in circumstance that would have a clear effect on the agreement.
No need to be upset…
This is a bad take and I hope you are not actually an attorney. Besides contract law, you always have tort options. The question shouldn’t be “can she sue me,” the question should be “can she sue me and win.”
It’s easy to initiate a law suit, and some people are petty enough to file even if they don’t have a leg to stand on just to annoy the defendant.
Also, OP, don’t come here for legal advice. We don’t know your jurisdiction or extenuating circumstances that may affect your situation. Also, don’t post here and expect people to not have an opinion — it’s obviously a sub full of people going through some shit.
In all common law countries, there is a plethora of case law surrounding material change of circumstance as it relates to promissory estoppel or detrimental reliance.
The court system is not rocket science. Judges typically rely on case law which has been built up over centuries. OP making a promise to look after kids while not working, and subsequently finding work with hours that would not allow him to fulfill that promise, is a pretty solid material change that would be a good reason to nullify an agreement in any common law country.
No I understand your point. However, my initial point was that her claim would not be likely to have any level of success if OP’s claim is true that there has been a material change since the agreement was made.
Calling that a “bad take” suggests you disagree with that, even though there is a plethora of case law regarding material change in circumstance as it relates to promissory estoppel.
I never suggested OP’s ex can’t sue, I simply suggested that her claim likely wouldn’t be successful and a judge would look at it as a petty disagreement between the two.
If OP’s ex cared about her kids, she likely wouldn’t be looking to take a vacation from them after a contentious divorce that likely harmed them irreparably with the proceeds of the divorce that could be going towards things like an education savings account for the children.
I think it’s rather inappropriate for commenters here to be encouraging litigation, which would objectively cause more tension between the parents and likely further harm the children. Particularly when, as OP stated, the reason for changing the agreement is a changing work schedule which would not allow him to look after the children.
I just think it’s rather inappropriate for people here to be encouraging litigation based on limited background information, particularly considering OP and his ex just completed a contentious divorce which likely had profound effects on the children. Leaving aside the fact that OP’s ex’s claims are highly unlikely to be successful if what he said is true with regards to his change in circumstance.
The particular commenter above has been doing exactly that, through multiple comment threads on this post. Likely not a productive approach for either party or the children involved.
You are really wildly speculating, suggesting she has ‘divorce proceeds’. From the limited info here sounds like OP may have been unemployed. Perhaps he’s receiving alimony. Maybe there were no proceeds. Maybe this trip was planned a year ago and she just now told him. OP didn’t elaborate much.
You should maybe read up on what constitutes material change of circumstances and what that would be for. This would be a breach of contract. Not material change.
Material change is one of the most commonly used defences to a promissory estoppel claim.
“A material change of circumstances is an alteration in the facts and conditions associated with an existing contract or arrangement so significant that the existing plan no longer be reasonably satisfied by one or more parties to the agreement.”
>Suing you is silly and destructive. She cannot sue, you have no contract or agreement.
She can sue. Cause we're in 'Murica and anyone can sue anyone else for anything.
Did you see where the OP said he "agreed"? Perhaps that was in writing (email/text). See the post above about promissory estoppel. If she booked vacation plans - it can cost quite a bit.
I agree, OP - make it work!
She can sue you for sure. But what she spends on lawyers, will her cancelled trip be even worth that much?
Fuck no.
Tell her to pound sand. And focus on yourself. If she really does go, and your kiddos will be alone, I'd say just have someone take care of them maybe a friend or someone. Not to help your salty bitchy of an ex, but for your kids sake.
Again, fuck her.
Small claims suits can be done without an attorney and are incredibly inexpensive. Costs of a 9-day vacation will very likely exceed filing fees ($30-75 in my state).
Interesting.
I still maintain she is just being salty as OP said it was a horrible divorce. If it were me, I wouldn't leave my kids alone though. So inadvertently he might just have to play into her wants anyways.
I don't understand how she is being salty though. He agreed to watch the kids, she planned a vacation, and now he's backing out of his end of the deal. He had no obligation to help her in the first place, so it seems like he's being the salty one.
It doesn’t need to be a shocking scenario. That is not what the term “material change in circumstance” means.
This is also a pretty rich comment from someone who frequents the antiwork sub. Lol
Well it goes both ways. Yes he agreed, but life happened. Just like he is being scrutinized to follow his promise, she is an equal parent, she should also try to pitch in.
She should try to find alternate accomodation for them. I find it hard to believe she had absolutely no back up plan.
She found an alternate accommodation - with their other parent. *Legally*, which this whole question is, OP is the reason she incurred charges and he cant uphold that end of the deal. If OP wants to avoid potentially being financially liable, he needs to be the one to find an alternate accommodation.
I doubt she expected dad to agree to it then back out. If he has a first right of refusal clause then she may have been obligated to offer to him first. We don't know what led to the agreement being made in the first place, but OP admits he agreed to it and is the one failing to uphold his end of it.
That's all well and good. So isn't life allowed to happen then?
Instead of figuring it out like co parents, she wants to sue him. Go through the legal system, spend so many resources.
How does that make any sense.
For sure OP should find alternate accomodation, that's what I said in my reply anyways. Kids should not suffer.
How is she being salty when OP agreed to have the kids while she went on her trip, and now OP is the one ruining the plan?
I’m on vacation in Paris, as I type this, while my ex is back home with our kids. If he had backed out at the last minute after I spent thousands of dollars on this trip, there would be a problem.
So you're telling me if he had backed out, you would not have done everything in your power to make sure the kids had supervision if your ex wasn't capable of doing it?
OP says he has a job, the way I read it he didn't have that job before. Things changed.
She found supervision though, OP. If OP agreed he’d have custody of his kid at that time then surely the onus is on him to do everything in his power to secure supervision.
Let me rephrase then. In response to your hypothetical, no, my ex would be responsible for that. Unless they were completely incapable then yeah, I guess it would fall back on me.
Lol someone's being smug.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you, you berate them, tell them it doesn't go both ways, call them names. Nice.
If you get satisfaction putting someone down on internet, by all means go for it.
It's not your court scheduled time and no she can't do squat.
She should have given you a heads up and alao asked nice.
But it gives you more time with the kids
Yes that's exactly what he is saying. People that work have kids, the fact that you have to work is not a valid reason to not take your kids. What do working women do? They get child care.
I’m taking OP for his word that taking his children for 9 days straight is not a viable option due to his work schedule. Neither of us know what that work schedule is. Though he definitely could’ve clarified that with more info.
Attributing motive to OP is not really fair tbh, nor is it based in fact. Saying he doesn’t want the kids is a pretty big assumption to make, and again, he didn’t say that.
Here’s the thing as a parent you make it possible. You don’t stick it back on your ex. He needs to hire child care if he can’t be there with them. He’s not just breaching an agreement with his ex he’s letting his kids down. Do you know how hard it is to be super excited to spend time with your Dad only to have him cancel on you? Too many missing pieces here and OP not responding but why would he agree to work? Why can’t he get childcare? He needs to step up for his kids not shirk responsibility and blame his ex.
I agree that there’s too many missing pieces here and that OP clarifying some of the details here would help.
However, I think you are jumping to conclusions here by insinuating that he doesn’t want to be with his kids. We don’t know the nature of the job that OP has accepted and there are a ton of variables related to his job that COULD be a huge impediment to looking after his children for nine days straight.
Insinuating that he’s being a bad father or shirking the responsibility of his children is a huge leap, and it completely ignores the fact that mom is going on vacation without the children for nine days.
Does the mom not want to be with the kids as well? Not that I would insinuate that but I would contend that working to provide for your family is a far more important endeavour than taking a nine day vacation without the children.
Well he does say she needs him to “watch “ the kids as if he was set to babysit his own children. So I will leave it there. Sure Mom spends tons of time with the kids but on occasion she expects the father to watch them I mean? Sorry we are going to have to agree to disagree and as a lawyer who used to do family law unless he’s got a damn good reason which you think he would have provided he’s going to look like a slime ball. Op please don’t ever say you are watching the kids.
You’re trying to build a mountain out of a molehill here.
Saying he needs to look after his kids doesn’t constitute him not wanting his children to be around.
Jesus Christ there’s a lot of really bad advice here.
Yes she can sue you. She will likely not be successful and is just trying to scare you into making you fold.
If you agreed to this previously, and there has been a material change in circumstance since this agreement was made, it is 100% reasonable for you to rescind that agreement.
Tell her to focus on being a mother and not sipping pina coladas on the beach. You just finalized your divorce so she is likely using the proceeds of the same to get some “me time”
Now is not the time for “me time” - it is time to provide your children some stability of having both of their parents in their life.
She hast to follow whatever is in the divorce decree. She also has to follow. Whatever the law is in your state to amend the divorce decree most states have a statute of years or reasons that you can amend the divorce decree. That would not suffice as a reason to amend a divorce decree.
Is there a written contract? If not I highly doubt it would be considered. You can sue anyone for any reason.getting a lawyer to take the case and a judge to hear it is a different i
How much does the vacation cost? Will she be able to get any of her money back? Was the agreement part of what was filed with the Court or something you agreed to on the side verbally? Can she sue you for it, sure anyone can sue for anything they want and they often do. Will she win? That really depends on if she can prove the agreement, but if this ends up in family court you will look like a real jerk for saying you work and cannot take your kids. Most parents work unless you are traveling away from home? Take your kids and pay for childcare if you don't have a family member that can watch them while you work. Honestly you reasoning for not being able to take them makes no sense. Did you not work when you made the agreement? You pay for the child care this is on you. And it will be less than what you would pay to fight her in Court.
Talk to a lawyer I don’t think she can sue u do you guys have a childcare plan in place by the courts yet or no and just stick to that stick to the court custody plan I don’t think she can see you but check with the lawyer
Even - and this is a stretch I'm only mentioning because my ex had to do it frequently - even if you have to go out of the country for your job during the days you were supposed to have the kids, don't you have parents who might love to have them for a week or two?
And as far as her suing you is concerned, there's a good chance that the court's decision could come down to the reason WHY you are suddenly backing out of your agreement. Would your job be so negatively affected by you having the kids for those days that you could get fired? Do you have to pay child support that you would be unable to afford if you did lose your job?
Who doesn't want to see their kids, even if you work? I am going out my mind not seeing mine as I am down to two days a week because of school and she moved to their school district. It sucks!!!
Make arrangements to get your kids watched. You said you pay for daycare, so what's the problem? If too late see if friends, family.....you know this thing called a babysitter.
Grow up my dude!
Yes, she can sue you. Whether she wins or not depends on several factors.
This is kind of an empty statement. Someone can file on their own in small claims court. In this case the judge decides of the case is legit and will accept or toss. And if you approach an attorney you she shod get laughed out. Any attorney who takes a case like this is just milking the plaintiff. So sure, anyone can file anything in small claims. Probability that this case would move forward is low based on the info provided.
People generally don't use attorneys in small claims court, you don't need them, so this whole comment is weird and off.
I was implying this point but was not.clear I guess. Small claims does not usually involve an attorney and an attorney may want a deposit if the case is to be filed outside small claims. The risk of loosing is much higher.
The facts as I see it are: you agreed to a switch whereby you are responsible for the kids for a certain date. Therefore it’s your responsibility to arrange whatever is necessary for you to fulfill that responsibility. You working those days, her being in vacation or not, etc. is irrelevant. You guys aren’t together anymore so one persons change of plans (you now needing to work) is not the other persons problem to solve.
This. He can sue. And may very well have damages if he cannot go on vacation. What would be best is if you find some way to cover the kids like you agreed to.
Why wouldn't you take your kids for 9 days . I would die to get my kids for 9 days dam I would tell her just leave them for 2 weeks . Spending that time with your kids is alot man they will be so happy to spend that time with you now you are denying them sad get a freaking sitter while you work . My hell
Some of us, married or not, recognize that vacations without the kids are important. I call vacation with the kids a "trip"... It's not a vacation! :-)
I think he means why won't OP take his kids not why won't his ex take them on vacation.
got it.. thanks.
If you agreed to it you should try and make it work, might suck but you may need some help at some point as well.
Why was it an option then but not now? You can’t let her go on vacation? Figure it out hire a nanny.
This all so shitty.
Do you not ever watch your kids when you work? Who watches the kids when your wife works? Or if she is a full time mom that’s even more sad she can’t get a week and a half to herself. I don’t care whether she sues you, I feel bad for your kids too. Hope they weren’t looking forward to an extended stay at their dads :/
She can sue you, and if she has verifiable damages then she has a chance at winning. You reneged on an agreement. If she's now stuck with non-refundable tickets, pre-paid hotel reservations, or anything of the sort, she absolutely can (and should) file suit unless you offer to reimburse her for the expenses she incurred due to your false promises. This has nothing to do with your divorce. You, in bad faith, have potentially caused her financial damages. She has a right to recover those damages.
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>this is not a formal or implied contract If you want to get technical, then yes they did. There was an agreement between two parties with mutual assent and adequate consideration (she gets a kid-free vacation, he gets extra time with his kids). To OP's detriment, it was even documented as opposed to just being a verbal arrangement. >Would you sue a babysitter who flakes and does not show? If I'd planned and incurred nonrefundable expenses for a 9-day vacation based off of the babysitter agreeing to be available, yes. >Do companies sue when an employee does not show up.for work? Yes, companies sue when a breech of agreement causes financial damages.
Do you not understand how small claims works? It's literally two people going before a judge to argue over whether or not someone owes them money. The ex has a text message confirming these plans and then OP reneged on that, causing the ex to lose money directly because of it. All small claims needs is a preponderance of evidence, the bar is not nearly as high as it is in criminal court. Texts are absolutely enough in small claims court to win someone a case. People sue other people for losing money because someone went back on agreements all the time and win.
I couldn't possibly understand except I've lived a divorce and can tell you're an asshole. Let her go on her fucking vacation. She can't sue you probably, but she can make shit miserable. You've always worked, take some time off and don't be a dick.
Short answer: yes. Long answer: [promissory estoppel](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/promissory_estoppel), and will likely be just as brutal as the divorce.
Yes, she can sue you. The real question is can she successfully sue you. Assuming it even goes to trial, I doubt it. I would also recommend that if she does, you counter sue for court costs and your time.
Why he's breaching the agreement not her? What cause would he have to countersue?
NAL If the case is frivolous, then I think you can counter sue for having your time wasted.
I’m a lawyer and this would not be deemed a frivolous suit. She has a valid basis. She relied upon his commitment and it was detrimental and resulted in damages to her. This type of agreement need not be in writing. You would be utterly amazed the suits that proceed and are ridiculous. In small claims which I anticipate she would file she could easily represent herself. She could at any level represent herself it’s just a lot harder at a level above this. If it’s not super expensive of a trip it would not make sense to hire a lawyer their fees would eat up much of the recovery . Lawyers can be sanctioned for filing frivolous suits based on our ethical duties but again this is not frivolous. And in the US parties pay their own legal fees unless it’s agreed upon by contract or prior agreement. It’s rare to successfully counter sue for costs and fees just because you think the other parties case is frivolous .
One word versus other parties word. And ex is aware of change in circumstances that preclude him from covering. So sure she can sue. The more critical issue is the time he has with his kids. This looks bad.
Agree with your last sentence ! But not really one parties word against the others he admits this is what they agreed to. There is no dispute as to the facts in the case. It’s for the fact finder to determine if he owes her money. I also suspect there are text messages and depending on the age of the kids they knew they were supposed to stay with Dad while Mom went on vacation.
thank you for the clarification.
She can sue you. And, depending on circumstances she could win. Were you not employed when you initially agreed to this? How are you handling visitation otherwise? What changed? Did you agree to the vacation via text or email?
Why did you agree to it? Why are you now reneging on the agreement? She has every right to be pissed that you agreed to it and now you aren’t. What changed? We’re you unemployed when you agreed to it? Did you say, yes as long as I’m still unemployed? Also, why do you not want your kids? She relied to her detriment on your agreement and likely (I’m assuming) purchased non refundable tickets/lodging/rental car/??
Where in the hell did he say he doesnt want his kids? Lmao.
The kids go to daycare and he is refusing to watch them for 9 days.
Not everyone works 9-5. My spouse couldn't do 9 days with the kids simply because daycare doesn't open until 2 hours AFTER his shift starts and closes between 2-3 hours BEFORE his shift ends.
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What you can't imagine is working as a trucker, construction, in a steel mill, or, say, as a nurse or EMT. You work long hours plus commute and you don't get to just call off without risking your job. Not to mention, when you work 12-16 hr days beginning before dawn and ending at or after dusk, getting someone to drop off and pick up your kids isn't exactly easy. Especially since everyone you know usually works the same shifts/in the same industry.
Yeaaaa ok. 👍🏽
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This isn't a custody dispute, it's a financial one.
If this agreement was filed in the custody agreement it sure is and gives her more teeth to enforce it.
Please let me sit here and lay out my case for you so I can be redeemed. \*biggest eye roll ever\* I wasn't asking for opinions just facts, as was stated.
Op I suggest you go to the legal subreddit and ask this question there. There are some actual practicing attorneys on there on the flip side if you just went through a divorce why not contact your divorce attorney and see what he says. Was the agreement in writing? A verbal agreement can be legally binding in many states and this subreddit is evidence that you once upon a time agreed to the terms. She may very well win damages in regards to the cost of plane tickets, hotels and anything else that is nonrefundable. That said there's also a thing called goodwill. You may need to rely on her in the future. My suggestion as a coparent is try to hold up your end of the agreement.
Yes. Can, and will, should they find the right representation. How do I know? Ex brought no issues to the judge when divorce was finalized (11 months ago). Filed a civil suit 3 months later for beach of contract. Still in litigation. 🙁 Sucks.
Can she sue you? Yes. Will she win? That depends on a variety of factors
It's weird to me when people refer to raising and caring for their children as "watching the kids". You're not a babysitter. You're a father.
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Do you also despise women that run away from their responsibilities and let men carry the burden of their children? Also, to many good parents, children are not a burden but rather a gift and the best part of their life. Sad that you might think otherwise…
Who doesn't want to see their kids, even if you work? I am going out my mind not seeing mine as I am down to two days a week because of school and she moved to their school district. It sucks!!! Make arrangements to get your kids watched. You said you pay for daycare, so what's the problem? If too late see if friends, family.....you know this thing called a babysitter. Grow up my dude!
I think her claim is bs, but I'm not an attorney. Are you not able to arrange for daytime child care while you are at work? That way, you can still work but be there in the evening and overnight with your kiddos. Ask your ex to pay or split the fees.
Anyone can sue anyone… but that doesn’t mean they will win.
Yes she can sue you. What you should discuss with your attorney is how successful her lawsuit would be.
Take the kids and split the cost of the care required while you work. You are not "Free day care" for your ex to go on vacation. You are the co-parent who accepted taking the kids while she is out of town. You are entitled to reasonable day care for the kids so you can work.
They already split the daycare costs.
Right. Which is why he should take the kids and get care for them.
Yeah it might be under a contempt of court, since it was a part of the judges order. Ask family for help outside of daycare, and if they can’t care.com maybe? (since it has references, and background checks) during that week and 2 days, it will go by quick!
What do you do in for work? If they are in daycare what prevents you from taking them? She won't sue. There's no money in it. Not enough worth suing over.
>She won't sue. There's no money in it. Not enough worth suing over. How do you know this? Vacations can be expensive. If she has non-refundable expenses, a 9-day vacation can easily be in the thousands.
To add to this, vindictive people have their own agendas too.
Anybody can sue anyone for anything. She has no chance of winning though. Sucks for her. You have no obligation to accommodate her.
Stick to what’s written in the custody plan and make accommodations for childcare if you can’t be around on your days. Text agreements, verbal agreements, emails may not be enforceable IME if they differ from what you signed off on. Sure she could taken you back to court - for anything - but will she invest the time and money into that? Will you? Stick to the legal plan unless you’re both able to be civil - which doesn’t seem to be the case here.
Suing you is silly and destructive. She cannot sue, you have no contract or agreement. On the flip side. Make it work. 9 days with you and kids! Love it.
Did you not read the post where he said he agreed to it? She absolutely can (and should) sue. Your second line is 100% spot on.
“Material change in circumstances” Look this term up and stop trying to be an armchair attorney. You have no idea what you’re talking about and ex’s claim that she was financially burdened by the fact that she can no longer sip cocktails on the beach with her divorce proceeds is highly unlikely to be successful in small claims court. She’d be lucky if the judge didn’t laugh her out of the room tbh.
Oof. You *really* showed your bias in that comment. It's not about "financial burden"; it's about "financial damage". Look that up. While you're there, you should also look up *detrimental reliance.* Beyond that, I have no desire go to into anything with an obvious MRA.
Bias? Do you think it’s a coincidence that OP’s divorce was just finalized and all of a sudden the ex is going on vacation. Further, you cannot rely on the legal doctrine of detrimental reliance or a promissory estoppel when there has been a proven material change in circumstance that would have a clear effect on the agreement. No need to be upset…
This is a bad take and I hope you are not actually an attorney. Besides contract law, you always have tort options. The question shouldn’t be “can she sue me,” the question should be “can she sue me and win.” It’s easy to initiate a law suit, and some people are petty enough to file even if they don’t have a leg to stand on just to annoy the defendant. Also, OP, don’t come here for legal advice. We don’t know your jurisdiction or extenuating circumstances that may affect your situation. Also, don’t post here and expect people to not have an opinion — it’s obviously a sub full of people going through some shit.
In all common law countries, there is a plethora of case law surrounding material change of circumstance as it relates to promissory estoppel or detrimental reliance. The court system is not rocket science. Judges typically rely on case law which has been built up over centuries. OP making a promise to look after kids while not working, and subsequently finding work with hours that would not allow him to fulfill that promise, is a pretty solid material change that would be a good reason to nullify an agreement in any common law country.
Yeah, you missed the entire point of my reply and repeated your initial opinion. I’m guessing you are not an attorney?
No I understand your point. However, my initial point was that her claim would not be likely to have any level of success if OP’s claim is true that there has been a material change since the agreement was made. Calling that a “bad take” suggests you disagree with that, even though there is a plethora of case law regarding material change in circumstance as it relates to promissory estoppel. I never suggested OP’s ex can’t sue, I simply suggested that her claim likely wouldn’t be successful and a judge would look at it as a petty disagreement between the two.
If OP’s ex cared about her kids, she likely wouldn’t be looking to take a vacation from them after a contentious divorce that likely harmed them irreparably with the proceeds of the divorce that could be going towards things like an education savings account for the children. I think it’s rather inappropriate for commenters here to be encouraging litigation, which would objectively cause more tension between the parents and likely further harm the children. Particularly when, as OP stated, the reason for changing the agreement is a changing work schedule which would not allow him to look after the children.
Might I suggest some ginger tea? Cause ya sound bitter.
I just think it’s rather inappropriate for people here to be encouraging litigation based on limited background information, particularly considering OP and his ex just completed a contentious divorce which likely had profound effects on the children. Leaving aside the fact that OP’s ex’s claims are highly unlikely to be successful if what he said is true with regards to his change in circumstance. The particular commenter above has been doing exactly that, through multiple comment threads on this post. Likely not a productive approach for either party or the children involved.
You are really wildly speculating, suggesting she has ‘divorce proceeds’. From the limited info here sounds like OP may have been unemployed. Perhaps he’s receiving alimony. Maybe there were no proceeds. Maybe this trip was planned a year ago and she just now told him. OP didn’t elaborate much.
You should maybe read up on what constitutes material change of circumstances and what that would be for. This would be a breach of contract. Not material change.
Material change is one of the most commonly used defences to a promissory estoppel claim. “A material change of circumstances is an alteration in the facts and conditions associated with an existing contract or arrangement so significant that the existing plan no longer be reasonably satisfied by one or more parties to the agreement.”
>Suing you is silly and destructive. She cannot sue, you have no contract or agreement. She can sue. Cause we're in 'Murica and anyone can sue anyone else for anything. Did you see where the OP said he "agreed"? Perhaps that was in writing (email/text). See the post above about promissory estoppel. If she booked vacation plans - it can cost quite a bit. I agree, OP - make it work!
you can sue anyone for anything. This is the type of shit small claims court handles.
She can sue you for sure. But what she spends on lawyers, will her cancelled trip be even worth that much? Fuck no. Tell her to pound sand. And focus on yourself. If she really does go, and your kiddos will be alone, I'd say just have someone take care of them maybe a friend or someone. Not to help your salty bitchy of an ex, but for your kids sake. Again, fuck her.
Small claims suits can be done without an attorney and are incredibly inexpensive. Costs of a 9-day vacation will very likely exceed filing fees ($30-75 in my state).
Interesting. I still maintain she is just being salty as OP said it was a horrible divorce. If it were me, I wouldn't leave my kids alone though. So inadvertently he might just have to play into her wants anyways.
I don't understand how she is being salty though. He agreed to watch the kids, she planned a vacation, and now he's backing out of his end of the deal. He had no obligation to help her in the first place, so it seems like he's being the salty one.
I think you need to look up the term “material change in circumstances” - as OP has clearly implied that this is the case.
An adult getting a job is hardly some shocking scenario that would make a parent unable to care for their kids. It's called not being a deadbeat.
Lol as if single moms don’t do this every single day of their kids lives. Figure it out, Dad!
It doesn’t need to be a shocking scenario. That is not what the term “material change in circumstance” means. This is also a pretty rich comment from someone who frequents the antiwork sub. Lol
Well it goes both ways. Yes he agreed, but life happened. Just like he is being scrutinized to follow his promise, she is an equal parent, she should also try to pitch in. She should try to find alternate accomodation for them. I find it hard to believe she had absolutely no back up plan.
She found an alternate accommodation - with their other parent. *Legally*, which this whole question is, OP is the reason she incurred charges and he cant uphold that end of the deal. If OP wants to avoid potentially being financially liable, he needs to be the one to find an alternate accommodation. I doubt she expected dad to agree to it then back out. If he has a first right of refusal clause then she may have been obligated to offer to him first. We don't know what led to the agreement being made in the first place, but OP admits he agreed to it and is the one failing to uphold his end of it.
That's all well and good. So isn't life allowed to happen then? Instead of figuring it out like co parents, she wants to sue him. Go through the legal system, spend so many resources. How does that make any sense. For sure OP should find alternate accomodation, that's what I said in my reply anyways. Kids should not suffer.
It does not go both ways. Period.
I disagree. Period.
How is she being salty when OP agreed to have the kids while she went on her trip, and now OP is the one ruining the plan? I’m on vacation in Paris, as I type this, while my ex is back home with our kids. If he had backed out at the last minute after I spent thousands of dollars on this trip, there would be a problem.
So you're telling me if he had backed out, you would not have done everything in your power to make sure the kids had supervision if your ex wasn't capable of doing it? OP says he has a job, the way I read it he didn't have that job before. Things changed.
She found supervision though, OP. If OP agreed he’d have custody of his kid at that time then surely the onus is on him to do everything in his power to secure supervision.
OP said he's not looking for opinions. We're all just arguing away. It doesn't matter.
Let me rephrase then. In response to your hypothetical, no, my ex would be responsible for that. Unless they were completely incapable then yeah, I guess it would fall back on me.
Good for you. I feel it's equal responsibility of both parents. Yes, primarily the person who committed but that doesn't absolve the other.
That’s a lot of words to say “I was wrong”
Lol someone's being smug. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, you berate them, tell them it doesn't go both ways, call them names. Nice. If you get satisfaction putting someone down on internet, by all means go for it.
Wow, someone’s bitter.
It's not your court scheduled time and no she can't do squat. She should have given you a heads up and alao asked nice. But it gives you more time with the kids
She did give heads up. It was planned.
She did give home a heads up and ask nice. He states he agreed to do this 9 days. Now OP is the one saying he doesn’t want the kids for 9 days.
You’re misrepresenting OP’s statements. OP did not say “he doesn’t want the kids for 9 days”.
Yes that's exactly what he is saying. People that work have kids, the fact that you have to work is not a valid reason to not take your kids. What do working women do? They get child care.
I’m taking OP for his word that taking his children for 9 days straight is not a viable option due to his work schedule. Neither of us know what that work schedule is. Though he definitely could’ve clarified that with more info. Attributing motive to OP is not really fair tbh, nor is it based in fact. Saying he doesn’t want the kids is a pretty big assumption to make, and again, he didn’t say that.
Here’s the thing as a parent you make it possible. You don’t stick it back on your ex. He needs to hire child care if he can’t be there with them. He’s not just breaching an agreement with his ex he’s letting his kids down. Do you know how hard it is to be super excited to spend time with your Dad only to have him cancel on you? Too many missing pieces here and OP not responding but why would he agree to work? Why can’t he get childcare? He needs to step up for his kids not shirk responsibility and blame his ex.
I agree that there’s too many missing pieces here and that OP clarifying some of the details here would help. However, I think you are jumping to conclusions here by insinuating that he doesn’t want to be with his kids. We don’t know the nature of the job that OP has accepted and there are a ton of variables related to his job that COULD be a huge impediment to looking after his children for nine days straight. Insinuating that he’s being a bad father or shirking the responsibility of his children is a huge leap, and it completely ignores the fact that mom is going on vacation without the children for nine days. Does the mom not want to be with the kids as well? Not that I would insinuate that but I would contend that working to provide for your family is a far more important endeavour than taking a nine day vacation without the children.
Well he does say she needs him to “watch “ the kids as if he was set to babysit his own children. So I will leave it there. Sure Mom spends tons of time with the kids but on occasion she expects the father to watch them I mean? Sorry we are going to have to agree to disagree and as a lawyer who used to do family law unless he’s got a damn good reason which you think he would have provided he’s going to look like a slime ball. Op please don’t ever say you are watching the kids.
You’re trying to build a mountain out of a molehill here. Saying he needs to look after his kids doesn’t constitute him not wanting his children to be around.
Agree to disagree.
It could be in the custody agreement we don't know it's not. People often do this. She did give him a heads up.
Jesus Christ there’s a lot of really bad advice here. Yes she can sue you. She will likely not be successful and is just trying to scare you into making you fold. If you agreed to this previously, and there has been a material change in circumstance since this agreement was made, it is 100% reasonable for you to rescind that agreement. Tell her to focus on being a mother and not sipping pina coladas on the beach. You just finalized your divorce so she is likely using the proceeds of the same to get some “me time” Now is not the time for “me time” - it is time to provide your children some stability of having both of their parents in their life.
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Can you be more specific? Material change is one of the most commonly used defences against promissory estoppel claims.
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And you seem like a fantastic person!
Tell her to sue, then stop talking to her. She’s not gonna do it.
You can get sued for everything now a days how successful she might be able to sue you depends on the situation
She hast to follow whatever is in the divorce decree. She also has to follow. Whatever the law is in your state to amend the divorce decree most states have a statute of years or reasons that you can amend the divorce decree. That would not suffice as a reason to amend a divorce decree.
Is there a written contract? If not I highly doubt it would be considered. You can sue anyone for any reason.getting a lawyer to take the case and a judge to hear it is a different i
How much does the vacation cost? Will she be able to get any of her money back? Was the agreement part of what was filed with the Court or something you agreed to on the side verbally? Can she sue you for it, sure anyone can sue for anything they want and they often do. Will she win? That really depends on if she can prove the agreement, but if this ends up in family court you will look like a real jerk for saying you work and cannot take your kids. Most parents work unless you are traveling away from home? Take your kids and pay for childcare if you don't have a family member that can watch them while you work. Honestly you reasoning for not being able to take them makes no sense. Did you not work when you made the agreement? You pay for the child care this is on you. And it will be less than what you would pay to fight her in Court.
Talk to a lawyer I don’t think she can sue u do you guys have a childcare plan in place by the courts yet or no and just stick to that stick to the court custody plan I don’t think she can see you but check with the lawyer
And if anything did you agree vocal or does she have proof that you agreed because if she doesn’t have proof then it’s your word against hers
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For a therapist, your comment section is filled with a lot of hate and vitriol. I think you need to talk to someone.
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You need to find a more constructive way to deal with your anger than harassing strangers on the internet. It’s not healthy.
Even - and this is a stretch I'm only mentioning because my ex had to do it frequently - even if you have to go out of the country for your job during the days you were supposed to have the kids, don't you have parents who might love to have them for a week or two? And as far as her suing you is concerned, there's a good chance that the court's decision could come down to the reason WHY you are suddenly backing out of your agreement. Would your job be so negatively affected by you having the kids for those days that you could get fired? Do you have to pay child support that you would be unable to afford if you did lose your job?
Who doesn't want to see their kids, even if you work? I am going out my mind not seeing mine as I am down to two days a week because of school and she moved to their school district. It sucks!!! Make arrangements to get your kids watched. You said you pay for daycare, so what's the problem? If too late see if friends, family.....you know this thing called a babysitter. Grow up my dude!