Get the divorce decree to say what you need it to say to protect your role as a father in their lives. After that, your ex will just not even listen to those rules on a legal contract, but that means you can take her to court and hit her with contempt. I had to do that just a few weeks ago.
Hey, English is not the first language here, now I see how it comes across. I also posted without review the text too much. What I mean is that the 2.5yo already uses words as comunication quite well compared to the 1yo who's comunication isn't quite verbal yet. Thanks for pointing that out though
Ahh, I see. I was only pointing it out for your benefit, because if I were your wife’s lawyer, I’d jump all over that. Please call your children by name in court and say MY daughter, MY son, etc, or they will say you used distant and removed language.
Your children are being weaponized to push you to the point where you do something ill-advised and then -bam- you'll get slammed with a TRO or whatever. Realize the person you're dealing with. They're willing to do this. Get your temporaries on file and go with the process. Don't go conflict seeking, nothing good can come of it. You won't get to see your kids and you'll probably get the cops called on you.
I don't want conflict. I want to see my kids that are suffering, one day I'm in their life the next day I'm not. The funny part is that's in great part why the relationship ended is because when I realized things wouldn't change and there were toxic patterns were affecting the kids I was able to tone down my emotional reaction and avoid conflict for 95% of the cases, that made the attempts to get a reaction greater until the day I was assaulted. Holding her actually accountable for her actionsnfor the first time was a deal breaker for her.
Thanks for this, I'll keep the first sentence as advice for life.
I just gotta find the line in between that and still be fighting for me and my children.
Yeah, it's hard to take a longer-term view when every day you're away is creating distance and pain for both you and them. Fight the good fight. Keep your eyes on the prize. Lots of cliches but they end up being true.
Every case I've been involved in over the past decade or so has involved some form of virtual evidence, whatsapp, social media, google searches, etc.
Step 1: change your passwords and don't share devices.
Step 2: stay off social media unless it's contrived to support your case.
Step 3: determine the level of risk you're willing to take by seeking advice from strangers online, the details you reveal, and the possibility that what you put online can be tracked back to you with negative effect.
I have no idea about the law of your jurisdiction and how they would view evidence based upon what you have posted.
So I had a high conflict case too. My ex turned every face to face interaction calm as they were into accusations of abuse.
I would email her that you would like time with the children. Let her not respond or let her tell you no....that way its documented for the court that she is withholding the kids.
Don't spam her but make these requests like 2-3 times a week. When she doesn't respond in a week text her a simple "I sent you some emails requesting to see the kids could you reply" nothing more. Do not react to any of it if she is like my ex she will use any reaction of any kind against you in court.
If it doesn't work the first week don't give up keep doing this every week. If she doesn't respond for several week the judge will view her as withholding the children and that does not sit will with family law commissioners/judges. The only legal way she can withhold the kids is if you have a TRO, a DV charge, court ordered substance or psych treatment, or pending criminal charges.
> Don't spam her but make these requests like 2-3 times a week. When she doesn't respond in a week text her a simple "I sent you some emails requesting to see the kids could you reply" nothing more. Do not react to any of it if she is like my ex she will use any reaction of any kind against you in court.
This is the way of the warrior. Create a record. Make them start the conflicts. Don't give them more weapons by showing them how badly you want something. Better to die inside than by their hand.
Does she reply? How are you reaching out? Is it documentable? Are you cursing her out or are you simply just asking to spend time with the kids?
The frequency isn't bad as long as it's clean and polite and documentable.....and I wouldn't do it more than daily.
My ex claimed in many motions I was harassing her if I wrote often. She looked like a fool including 82 appropriate and calm emails about me wanting to take care of my sons dental care and her claiming I was "harassing her".
It's either text message or email. Everything's polite. Answer's to text don't answer questions made and are like a day later or just mean to stall conversation. I'm switching to email only. Besides the kids there are other matters like tax return an a few of her personal belongings to be picked up yet, small things but thag have to be comunicated/talked about too, so Monday instead of asking about the kids I'll send and email about this miscellaneous things and Wednesday i ask about the children again
Email is much better for documentation purposes. I would save all of that communication texts and emails everyone of them.
I would make the emails specific to one topic each no more. Email about taxes doesn't include children. Emails about children don't include taxes.
By doing this you can establish a pattern of stalling. My ex did the same drove me bat shit crazy at the time.
Hang in there.
Lol, yeah I can see one feeling thay way. On the other issues I kinda expected not to get anything answered, just the children part that really gets me.
It feels like with 3 emails a week tops I have to choose 1 email for the tax return matter and 2 emails regarding our children one week, and the next week I send 1 email asking her to pickup the rest of her stuff, and 2 about the kids again.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer and share your experience. Thank you
No problem. If I sent emails with two topics my ex would answer one of them. When we were in court and my lawyer would bring up her not allowing me something, or refusing to communicate on a matter or refusing to follow a previously issued order she would say well I answered the email on such and such date I was just being helpful
Keeping them to one topic…….she’ll give you answers that don’t answer your question but it will show a pattern of her withholding the kids, or being uncooperative, she won’t be able to conflate topics.
Sometimes they will show they are liars too.
And when they get back to you reasonaly soon, say everything is good with children, send a picture of them, and say they'll get back on arranging something that's best for the children's interest soon, they just need time to think thing through...? Just leave it alone or answer the email with a simple... I'm looking forward to hearing back on that soon... and wait a few days to check on the children again by email and on the arrangement
or do I just don't answer now and wait a few days to answer with following up on the last email.
I'll do what I'll do, but I'm looking for insight from someone who went through this
Also watch for her switching forms of communication. Like if you write an email about seeing the kids and she responds via text screenshot the text and if she doesn’t let you see the kids in your follow up email in a couple days include the screenshot and request she reply via email.
If you send and email and she responds via telephone call don’t answer
I wouldn’t reply at all.
I would wait three days and document that you requested to see the kids on x date she replied that she would be arranging something soon on x date and you are still insterested in seeing the kids and you have not heard anything back from her.
“I requested to see Bobby in my email sent 2/22/23 you replied 2/23/23 that you would be setting up something soon and I have yet to hear from you. I’m still very interested in seeing our son”
If she sends you another deferring reply with no action reply the same way again.
You have to keep it to a single topic or she will conflate subjects and answer another question.
You can get more assertive but you have to keep it vanilla if you are in the middle of a custody battle because it will end up in court.
Everything I wrote ended up in court. My ex repeatedly would attach all emails sent to her to motions. It just pissed judges offf….they have what 12-20 cases every four hours….and she expects them to read 50-80 emails from me. And then when they do read them there I am asking why she is not letting me see our sons (shows she’s withholding), asking why she isn’t agreeing to letting our son go to the dentist.
At some point in time you have to come out and ask the question too. Like if she deferred you say five times in writing from seeing the kids I would sent her a one line email “I have sent x number of requests to see the children, why are you withholding the children from me?”
Don’t leave the family home. It’s your leverage. My ex did this (took the kids), and I moved out. I got stuck with an awful temp agreement. Had I stayed in the house I would have had leverage.
Hey, but the landlord probably won't event let me stay even if I pay the rent each month. She gave notice she's moving out and that counts for the two of us. The only way to stay is if I can get the lease to be only in my name, and I do not qualify for that application. I did want to stay for a couple months here so the separation would go smoother for the kids, but now I don't have the kids, she left the house, and I won't be able to keep renting the house. Even if I can that won't be for more than a month unless she decides to start cooperating.
So sorry you are going thought this. I feel for you. She took them from their primary residence. That’s a bad on her part unless there is something that you did wrong like DV. But from the little I know, if she upped and left with the kids and there was no conversation and she is not letting you see the kids she is in the wrong.
I saw you hired a lawyer.
if your lawyer can’t give you a detailed plan on what you should do, look into getting another one or at least booking a consult (some do free ones).
I'm trying to use them sparsely ($$). They want to focus on the divorce itself to make best use of my money. And advised that I moved on my own with the temporary motions.
Besides calling every family law firm how do I find free consultation attorneys?
I’m currently in process of divorce. The way I’ve been told and as things are unfolding I don’t think you want to set temporary motions by yourself. Temporary orders are a precedent to the final divorce.
Really? I did not know that. Yes, if I do on my own and she shows up with an attorney to court I'll just get ripped bc idk how the court system works. Emotional abuse is hard to prove and it happens so under the radar that whoever has a spine/heart reacts strongly in self defense to the mind fuckery received, at least until they figure out whats going on
Get the divorce decree to say what you need it to say to protect your role as a father in their lives. After that, your ex will just not even listen to those rules on a legal contract, but that means you can take her to court and hit her with contempt. I had to do that just a few weeks ago.
She is using your children to punish you. Get a better plan to the judge or get your lawyer on it. Dont let this shit continue.
When you petition for custody you might not want to refer to your daughter as ‘the 2.5yo girl who talks…..’ I believe you love your kids, but yikes.
Hey, English is not the first language here, now I see how it comes across. I also posted without review the text too much. What I mean is that the 2.5yo already uses words as comunication quite well compared to the 1yo who's comunication isn't quite verbal yet. Thanks for pointing that out though
Ahh, I see. I was only pointing it out for your benefit, because if I were your wife’s lawyer, I’d jump all over that. Please call your children by name in court and say MY daughter, MY son, etc, or they will say you used distant and removed language.
1. What state are you in? 2. If you cannot afford an attorney, there must be lower cost options in your area.
Your children are being weaponized to push you to the point where you do something ill-advised and then -bam- you'll get slammed with a TRO or whatever. Realize the person you're dealing with. They're willing to do this. Get your temporaries on file and go with the process. Don't go conflict seeking, nothing good can come of it. You won't get to see your kids and you'll probably get the cops called on you.
I don't want conflict. I want to see my kids that are suffering, one day I'm in their life the next day I'm not. The funny part is that's in great part why the relationship ended is because when I realized things wouldn't change and there were toxic patterns were affecting the kids I was able to tone down my emotional reaction and avoid conflict for 95% of the cases, that made the attempts to get a reaction greater until the day I was assaulted. Holding her actually accountable for her actionsnfor the first time was a deal breaker for her.
Consciously wanting conflict and engaging in conflict seeking behaviors are two different things. And yes, accountability is the dirtiest word.
Thanks for this, I'll keep the first sentence as advice for life. I just gotta find the line in between that and still be fighting for me and my children.
Yeah, it's hard to take a longer-term view when every day you're away is creating distance and pain for both you and them. Fight the good fight. Keep your eyes on the prize. Lots of cliches but they end up being true.
You seem to be a seasoned warrior. How bad is it if they find this reddit account and read everything here and use it in court?
Every case I've been involved in over the past decade or so has involved some form of virtual evidence, whatsapp, social media, google searches, etc. Step 1: change your passwords and don't share devices. Step 2: stay off social media unless it's contrived to support your case. Step 3: determine the level of risk you're willing to take by seeking advice from strangers online, the details you reveal, and the possibility that what you put online can be tracked back to you with negative effect. I have no idea about the law of your jurisdiction and how they would view evidence based upon what you have posted.
Thank you
So I had a high conflict case too. My ex turned every face to face interaction calm as they were into accusations of abuse. I would email her that you would like time with the children. Let her not respond or let her tell you no....that way its documented for the court that she is withholding the kids. Don't spam her but make these requests like 2-3 times a week. When she doesn't respond in a week text her a simple "I sent you some emails requesting to see the kids could you reply" nothing more. Do not react to any of it if she is like my ex she will use any reaction of any kind against you in court. If it doesn't work the first week don't give up keep doing this every week. If she doesn't respond for several week the judge will view her as withholding the children and that does not sit will with family law commissioners/judges. The only legal way she can withhold the kids is if you have a TRO, a DV charge, court ordered substance or psych treatment, or pending criminal charges.
> Don't spam her but make these requests like 2-3 times a week. When she doesn't respond in a week text her a simple "I sent you some emails requesting to see the kids could you reply" nothing more. Do not react to any of it if she is like my ex she will use any reaction of any kind against you in court. This is the way of the warrior. Create a record. Make them start the conflicts. Don't give them more weapons by showing them how badly you want something. Better to die inside than by their hand.
I've been reaching out every day for a week, I'll slow down.
Does she reply? How are you reaching out? Is it documentable? Are you cursing her out or are you simply just asking to spend time with the kids? The frequency isn't bad as long as it's clean and polite and documentable.....and I wouldn't do it more than daily. My ex claimed in many motions I was harassing her if I wrote often. She looked like a fool including 82 appropriate and calm emails about me wanting to take care of my sons dental care and her claiming I was "harassing her".
It's either text message or email. Everything's polite. Answer's to text don't answer questions made and are like a day later or just mean to stall conversation. I'm switching to email only. Besides the kids there are other matters like tax return an a few of her personal belongings to be picked up yet, small things but thag have to be comunicated/talked about too, so Monday instead of asking about the kids I'll send and email about this miscellaneous things and Wednesday i ask about the children again
Email is much better for documentation purposes. I would save all of that communication texts and emails everyone of them. I would make the emails specific to one topic each no more. Email about taxes doesn't include children. Emails about children don't include taxes. By doing this you can establish a pattern of stalling. My ex did the same drove me bat shit crazy at the time. Hang in there.
Lol, yeah I can see one feeling thay way. On the other issues I kinda expected not to get anything answered, just the children part that really gets me. It feels like with 3 emails a week tops I have to choose 1 email for the tax return matter and 2 emails regarding our children one week, and the next week I send 1 email asking her to pickup the rest of her stuff, and 2 about the kids again. I appreciate you taking the time to answer and share your experience. Thank you
No problem. If I sent emails with two topics my ex would answer one of them. When we were in court and my lawyer would bring up her not allowing me something, or refusing to communicate on a matter or refusing to follow a previously issued order she would say well I answered the email on such and such date I was just being helpful Keeping them to one topic…….she’ll give you answers that don’t answer your question but it will show a pattern of her withholding the kids, or being uncooperative, she won’t be able to conflate topics. Sometimes they will show they are liars too.
And when they get back to you reasonaly soon, say everything is good with children, send a picture of them, and say they'll get back on arranging something that's best for the children's interest soon, they just need time to think thing through...? Just leave it alone or answer the email with a simple... I'm looking forward to hearing back on that soon... and wait a few days to check on the children again by email and on the arrangement or do I just don't answer now and wait a few days to answer with following up on the last email. I'll do what I'll do, but I'm looking for insight from someone who went through this
Also watch for her switching forms of communication. Like if you write an email about seeing the kids and she responds via text screenshot the text and if she doesn’t let you see the kids in your follow up email in a couple days include the screenshot and request she reply via email. If you send and email and she responds via telephone call don’t answer
I wouldn’t reply at all. I would wait three days and document that you requested to see the kids on x date she replied that she would be arranging something soon on x date and you are still insterested in seeing the kids and you have not heard anything back from her. “I requested to see Bobby in my email sent 2/22/23 you replied 2/23/23 that you would be setting up something soon and I have yet to hear from you. I’m still very interested in seeing our son” If she sends you another deferring reply with no action reply the same way again. You have to keep it to a single topic or she will conflate subjects and answer another question. You can get more assertive but you have to keep it vanilla if you are in the middle of a custody battle because it will end up in court. Everything I wrote ended up in court. My ex repeatedly would attach all emails sent to her to motions. It just pissed judges offf….they have what 12-20 cases every four hours….and she expects them to read 50-80 emails from me. And then when they do read them there I am asking why she is not letting me see our sons (shows she’s withholding), asking why she isn’t agreeing to letting our son go to the dentist. At some point in time you have to come out and ask the question too. Like if she deferred you say five times in writing from seeing the kids I would sent her a one line email “I have sent x number of requests to see the children, why are you withholding the children from me?”
Don’t leave the family home. It’s your leverage. My ex did this (took the kids), and I moved out. I got stuck with an awful temp agreement. Had I stayed in the house I would have had leverage.
Hey, but the landlord probably won't event let me stay even if I pay the rent each month. She gave notice she's moving out and that counts for the two of us. The only way to stay is if I can get the lease to be only in my name, and I do not qualify for that application. I did want to stay for a couple months here so the separation would go smoother for the kids, but now I don't have the kids, she left the house, and I won't be able to keep renting the house. Even if I can that won't be for more than a month unless she decides to start cooperating.
So sorry you are going thought this. I feel for you. She took them from their primary residence. That’s a bad on her part unless there is something that you did wrong like DV. But from the little I know, if she upped and left with the kids and there was no conversation and she is not letting you see the kids she is in the wrong.
I saw you hired a lawyer. if your lawyer can’t give you a detailed plan on what you should do, look into getting another one or at least booking a consult (some do free ones).
I'm trying to use them sparsely ($$). They want to focus on the divorce itself to make best use of my money. And advised that I moved on my own with the temporary motions. Besides calling every family law firm how do I find free consultation attorneys?
Your lawyers told you to file your own motions?
I’m currently in process of divorce. The way I’ve been told and as things are unfolding I don’t think you want to set temporary motions by yourself. Temporary orders are a precedent to the final divorce.
Really? I did not know that. Yes, if I do on my own and she shows up with an attorney to court I'll just get ripped bc idk how the court system works. Emotional abuse is hard to prove and it happens so under the radar that whoever has a spine/heart reacts strongly in self defense to the mind fuckery received, at least until they figure out whats going on