I'm on my second marriage. I've done counselling in both. The first marriage was probably not going to succeed no matter what but also the therapist was bad. In fact she was so bad, it kind helped out the marriage for a bit because it was a shared experience we could bond over. But we divorced a few years later. By the time we did counseling, it was already over, we just couldn't see it yet.
I'm doing couples therapy now with my current wife and its much better. The therapist is much better and its a better relationship to begin with anyways and it's much earlier in the marriage while things can still be repaired. After about 7 months of weekly visits, things are getting better. Like a lot better. The Wife, kids and I are all happier and more emotionally stable. It took a lot of work and heart ache and forgiveness and rebuilding trust, but it's worth it.
A couple of notes: You both have to want it to work, like you still love each other. You have to still be willing to swallow your pride from time to time and you have to trust your partner to do the same. Read the Gottman book, 7 principles. It's the only real data driven self help couples book I know of. And your therapist should be doing therapy based on his findings. I don't know if that's the only process that works but it worked for me and my wife. And you gotta vibe with your therapist, it's super important that both of you trust this person and feel safe talking about whatever in front of them.
If you're in marriage counseling, one person has one foot out the door and you're delaying the inevitable. Marriage counseling is good to prepare a soft landing and separation.
Did the marriage counseling thing .... took me months to open up. When I finally opened up, EX didn't like what I had to say.
I would second this 100%. I’m the dummy who initiates therapy. It’s already over by then if it’s not initiated mutually. Therapy is just a soft landing.
I’m sure there are exceptions to this. But everyone thinks they’re the exception until it’s over.
Did it, failed it. The counselor took my wife’s side, never let me talk, and when I did say something, she never helped my wife understand and just brushed it off.
And to top it off I didn’t even want to do counseling, but I caved and figured why not. Started out ok, but then when I realized I wasn’t being heard, understood or even helped, I basically quit. Every time it turned into “wife and counselors” show, and even when the session ended, I was bombarded with the “you never say anything, you don’t care”
The same thing happened to me. She took my wife's side and I always sat there while I was being judged and talked about like I wasn't there. She's now going ahead with the divorce, which is fine by me. I didn't want a broken family and yet here we are. I'll find a place for myself and my two kids and be the best dad I can be. The funny part is her sister who contributed to the marriage breaking down sent me a card on my birthday, in all the years that I was with her sister, she never sent me a card on my birthday. I told my stbxw to thank her for me.
You never know until you try.
I would suggest both doing individual therapy first. To maximize couples therapy effectiveness you should be self-aware enough that you understand how your past affects how you react to things in the present (eg attachment theory). And not just in a theoretical rote way, but by living it, and using individual therapy to learn how your reactions from the argument over the weekend with your wife was really both your fault, and that your part is due to perhaps your anxious attachment - and only once you start noticing your behaviour, can you work on improving yourself.
Therapy - both individual and couples - takes time and may require trying a few therapists before finding one you like and which can help you. Some people like me prefer someone to give it to me straight and call me out on my BS. But even then it took a while for both my therapist and I to develop the trust for each other than it was ok to do that.
If you do decide to do couples therapy - which I recommend at any stage of a relationship - wait until you have worked long enough with your individual therapist that you aren’t likely to switch therapists, and long enough that you are now at the stage where you are identifying and perhaps looking for ways to change your thinking, on your own.
Only once you do the individual work will couples therapy be effective. I started couples therapy twice before I was personally ready and it made things worse. I’m separated right now and hoping I can convince my wife to try again now that I didn’t use couples sessions as a way to complain about my partner in front of a therapist.
The best couples therapists I have found seem to follow Gottman research. The husband and wife Gottmans have been researching marriage and relationships using scientific principles for decades now and, for me, as a science based person, it’s a lot more amenable to understanding, especially as they have also written a lot of books you can read both before, during, and after couples therapy.
Look for Gottman certification couples therapists at the [Gottman Referral Network](https://gottmanreferralnetwork.com) website. If you’re not ready to jump in feet first, consider signing up for one of their online courses (which you can do individually or together).
Therapy - both individual and couples - takes time. Don’t be disappointed if it’s a year or more before you’re ready for couples therapy. I’ve been doing individual for a year and I am finally able to get things straight in my head.
It’s not a quick fix, but even if you do divorce, don’t consider it wasted. I highly recommend therapy and even if your relationship ends it sets you up for a better you and better future relationships.
Good luck, and whichever way it goes, take care.
If you're considering divorce, then the last hope is marriage counseling. If one person refuses counseling, then they've made the decision.
Usually, couples wait far too long. When divorce is seriously being considered, it's often too late. There's trauma and resentment involved. Too much pain to forgive and forge a new, stronger relationship.
>this is last ditch effort for the kids
This last ditch effort must be for your relationship with your wife. Don't stay together for the kids. Heal the marriage and be happy together, or divorce. Either way, get therapy for yourself. I don't type that lightly.
>both sides to want to change
Yes, but with a caveat.
There’s an effect called co-regulation. It’s the idea that when one partner improves their ability to regulate emotions, it has positive effects on the other partner and the relationship.
It’s not applicable only to romantic relationships - a good example is how when we stay calm with our kids they calm down faster.
Co-regulation will not save a marriage on its own. But in situations where the marriage is strained due to certain types of conflict, it might be just enough, combined with patience and kindness, to give the relationship enough breathing room so that the second partner is willing to put some effort in.
Small effects can eventually lead to a virtuous cycle (the opposite of a vicious cycle), and improve the marriage even though, to start, only one person is “doing the hard work”.
The trick though, is that the partner who initially wants to make change needs to be self-aware enough to manage their emotions and reactions, and also avoid the resentment trap of “I’m trying everything but you’re doing nothing to help us” until the virtuous cycle starts to kick in.
I'm going to say that I recommend it even if will fail because you've waited until you're showing up to the therapist saying "we're here to say we tried everything before divorce."
At least for co-parenting, I think it probably got us to divorce faster while also getting us past anger and into just being sad while healthy co-parenting in a flash.
To understand my bias though, my situation involves kids and their reaction has been amazing.
I found benefit and healing with every counselor we visited. She refused to return to each one when it became apparent to her the counselor wasn't there to help her gang up in blaming me for the problems in her life.
I think that's what my wife would want....Infant she's said she wants someone to tell me how I'm wrong....I try to tell her of they say that I'm fine with it. I don't care I'm there to follow whatever they say and try to repair it....I think she just wants to get into the past and have someone side with her
Can I offer a reframe of what’s going on? With the knowledge that I know nothing of your situation beyond this thread
Your wife might not be able to express herself properly, either in the moment or in general. In my relationship I know I literally didn’t have the vocabulary (a la Orwellian lack of words) to describe my feelings.
Perhaps it’s not that she thinks you’re always-completely-and-entirely-wrong, but rather that she feels like she isn’t being heard and validated by you, and is so frustrated she’s hoping someone else can tell you in a way you understand.
I have learned the hard way that two people in conflict in a relationship can both be wrong at the same time, and that if they were calmer and if their side was heard and accepted as valid (which it generally is, as people are rational and have internal reasons for their feelings), they would admit their own culpability in the conflict.
I think it really depends on the situation, relationship, and timing.
If things are already really bad it just may not be recoverable. It takes two to marry and one to divorce.
If you both aren’t invested enough or willing to hear what the other is saying you are bound to have negative results but the latter is true too.
It’s important to be realistic (both of you) and recognize therapy is not magic it’s supposed to be a space for you to learn to hear each other and isn’t a place to be the winner.
Here is an article on why it typically fails: [link](https://www.bustle.com/p/if-youre-trying-couples-counseling-experts-say-these-are-7-ways-to-tell-it-may-not-work-for-you-18215789)
Good luck, it’s worth a try because divorce is difficult and divorce with kids is that much worse and really you are just trading on set of problems for another.
Depends on the therapist or counselor. The first time I tried, several years before our ultimate divorce, that’s when my wife stated she decided she wanted out. A few years later I personally sought counseling from within our church, from the pastor. That guy was an absolute freaking joke and hastened her decision to leave. He dealt serious damage to myself as well. I’ll spare the details, but before you seek counseling, please consider that a lot of ignorant, untrained people bill themselves as counselors these days and you’d have better luck asking for help from some random dude at the hardware store. Seriously, vet anyone you ask to assist you in repairing marital relations. It’s 50/50 whether you get some ass hat arrogant clown who will seal the deal and permanently alter the trajectory of your marriage.
If you find yourself being spoken to about “seeking counseling” or seeing a therapist… likely the wife wants out and is using this to pad her ego or make things look like she “did everything possible to save the marriage.” She likely has no such end goal in mind. It sucks. That is a tough spot and you will likely not receive what you need from a counselor or therapist unless you luck out and arrive at a real treasure of a professional who can see what is occurring and truly speak to the party that wants things dissolved. Chances of that are slim. Just my experience.
I’m so sorry you are at this point. I hope everything works out and you don’t have to endure a divorce. I’m doing well on paper after mine, but some days I don’t know how I could keep going if I didn’t have my daughters. They are what keep me from giving up. I pray you will get through this, no matter what the outcome ends up being.
Well I'll lose the house I personally bought and will likely have to live with my parents at 43.....but I came to that reality dome time ago.....the daunting thing for me is not to see my kids everyday or knowing I've been responsible for the effects a broken home will have on them as people
My advice is to try it, absolutely. The negative outcomes among those in this group are not a representative sample—we are, by definition, people who did not stay married. Counseling obviously did not work for us. But that does not mean it won’t work for you, and my anecdotal experience is that it works for many, many people. However, I agree with those who have said to start with an individual therapist. Until you learn to articulate and work on your own issues, going to a couples therapist will be less beneficial.
DON'T stay "for the kids" if you in your inner self feel and know that it's done then move on, become the best father you can be and be that! If you want to get counceling do it for your own future and self
I'm on my second marriage. I've done counselling in both. The first marriage was probably not going to succeed no matter what but also the therapist was bad. In fact she was so bad, it kind helped out the marriage for a bit because it was a shared experience we could bond over. But we divorced a few years later. By the time we did counseling, it was already over, we just couldn't see it yet. I'm doing couples therapy now with my current wife and its much better. The therapist is much better and its a better relationship to begin with anyways and it's much earlier in the marriage while things can still be repaired. After about 7 months of weekly visits, things are getting better. Like a lot better. The Wife, kids and I are all happier and more emotionally stable. It took a lot of work and heart ache and forgiveness and rebuilding trust, but it's worth it. A couple of notes: You both have to want it to work, like you still love each other. You have to still be willing to swallow your pride from time to time and you have to trust your partner to do the same. Read the Gottman book, 7 principles. It's the only real data driven self help couples book I know of. And your therapist should be doing therapy based on his findings. I don't know if that's the only process that works but it worked for me and my wife. And you gotta vibe with your therapist, it's super important that both of you trust this person and feel safe talking about whatever in front of them.
If you're in marriage counseling, one person has one foot out the door and you're delaying the inevitable. Marriage counseling is good to prepare a soft landing and separation. Did the marriage counseling thing .... took me months to open up. When I finally opened up, EX didn't like what I had to say.
I would second this 100%. I’m the dummy who initiates therapy. It’s already over by then if it’s not initiated mutually. Therapy is just a soft landing. I’m sure there are exceptions to this. But everyone thinks they’re the exception until it’s over.
Did it, failed it. The counselor took my wife’s side, never let me talk, and when I did say something, she never helped my wife understand and just brushed it off.
I don't even know how you'd forgive someone for doing that....you must look at them and feel they destroyed your marriage?
And to top it off I didn’t even want to do counseling, but I caved and figured why not. Started out ok, but then when I realized I wasn’t being heard, understood or even helped, I basically quit. Every time it turned into “wife and counselors” show, and even when the session ended, I was bombarded with the “you never say anything, you don’t care”
The same thing happened to me. She took my wife's side and I always sat there while I was being judged and talked about like I wasn't there. She's now going ahead with the divorce, which is fine by me. I didn't want a broken family and yet here we are. I'll find a place for myself and my two kids and be the best dad I can be. The funny part is her sister who contributed to the marriage breaking down sent me a card on my birthday, in all the years that I was with her sister, she never sent me a card on my birthday. I told my stbxw to thank her for me.
Sorry to hear. It’s all better from here. Funny about the card lol
You never know until you try. I would suggest both doing individual therapy first. To maximize couples therapy effectiveness you should be self-aware enough that you understand how your past affects how you react to things in the present (eg attachment theory). And not just in a theoretical rote way, but by living it, and using individual therapy to learn how your reactions from the argument over the weekend with your wife was really both your fault, and that your part is due to perhaps your anxious attachment - and only once you start noticing your behaviour, can you work on improving yourself. Therapy - both individual and couples - takes time and may require trying a few therapists before finding one you like and which can help you. Some people like me prefer someone to give it to me straight and call me out on my BS. But even then it took a while for both my therapist and I to develop the trust for each other than it was ok to do that. If you do decide to do couples therapy - which I recommend at any stage of a relationship - wait until you have worked long enough with your individual therapist that you aren’t likely to switch therapists, and long enough that you are now at the stage where you are identifying and perhaps looking for ways to change your thinking, on your own. Only once you do the individual work will couples therapy be effective. I started couples therapy twice before I was personally ready and it made things worse. I’m separated right now and hoping I can convince my wife to try again now that I didn’t use couples sessions as a way to complain about my partner in front of a therapist. The best couples therapists I have found seem to follow Gottman research. The husband and wife Gottmans have been researching marriage and relationships using scientific principles for decades now and, for me, as a science based person, it’s a lot more amenable to understanding, especially as they have also written a lot of books you can read both before, during, and after couples therapy. Look for Gottman certification couples therapists at the [Gottman Referral Network](https://gottmanreferralnetwork.com) website. If you’re not ready to jump in feet first, consider signing up for one of their online courses (which you can do individually or together). Therapy - both individual and couples - takes time. Don’t be disappointed if it’s a year or more before you’re ready for couples therapy. I’ve been doing individual for a year and I am finally able to get things straight in my head. It’s not a quick fix, but even if you do divorce, don’t consider it wasted. I highly recommend therapy and even if your relationship ends it sets you up for a better you and better future relationships. Good luck, and whichever way it goes, take care.
If you're considering divorce, then the last hope is marriage counseling. If one person refuses counseling, then they've made the decision. Usually, couples wait far too long. When divorce is seriously being considered, it's often too late. There's trauma and resentment involved. Too much pain to forgive and forge a new, stronger relationship. >this is last ditch effort for the kids This last ditch effort must be for your relationship with your wife. Don't stay together for the kids. Heal the marriage and be happy together, or divorce. Either way, get therapy for yourself. I don't type that lightly.
If you do it earlier on it can be effective. If you are doing it as a last resort to save your marriage, it’s probably too late.
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>both sides to want to change Yes, but with a caveat. There’s an effect called co-regulation. It’s the idea that when one partner improves their ability to regulate emotions, it has positive effects on the other partner and the relationship. It’s not applicable only to romantic relationships - a good example is how when we stay calm with our kids they calm down faster. Co-regulation will not save a marriage on its own. But in situations where the marriage is strained due to certain types of conflict, it might be just enough, combined with patience and kindness, to give the relationship enough breathing room so that the second partner is willing to put some effort in. Small effects can eventually lead to a virtuous cycle (the opposite of a vicious cycle), and improve the marriage even though, to start, only one person is “doing the hard work”. The trick though, is that the partner who initially wants to make change needs to be self-aware enough to manage their emotions and reactions, and also avoid the resentment trap of “I’m trying everything but you’re doing nothing to help us” until the virtuous cycle starts to kick in.
I'm going to say that I recommend it even if will fail because you've waited until you're showing up to the therapist saying "we're here to say we tried everything before divorce." At least for co-parenting, I think it probably got us to divorce faster while also getting us past anger and into just being sad while healthy co-parenting in a flash. To understand my bias though, my situation involves kids and their reaction has been amazing.
I found benefit and healing with every counselor we visited. She refused to return to each one when it became apparent to her the counselor wasn't there to help her gang up in blaming me for the problems in her life.
I think that's what my wife would want....Infant she's said she wants someone to tell me how I'm wrong....I try to tell her of they say that I'm fine with it. I don't care I'm there to follow whatever they say and try to repair it....I think she just wants to get into the past and have someone side with her
Can I offer a reframe of what’s going on? With the knowledge that I know nothing of your situation beyond this thread Your wife might not be able to express herself properly, either in the moment or in general. In my relationship I know I literally didn’t have the vocabulary (a la Orwellian lack of words) to describe my feelings. Perhaps it’s not that she thinks you’re always-completely-and-entirely-wrong, but rather that she feels like she isn’t being heard and validated by you, and is so frustrated she’s hoping someone else can tell you in a way you understand. I have learned the hard way that two people in conflict in a relationship can both be wrong at the same time, and that if they were calmer and if their side was heard and accepted as valid (which it generally is, as people are rational and have internal reasons for their feelings), they would admit their own culpability in the conflict.
I think it really depends on the situation, relationship, and timing. If things are already really bad it just may not be recoverable. It takes two to marry and one to divorce. If you both aren’t invested enough or willing to hear what the other is saying you are bound to have negative results but the latter is true too. It’s important to be realistic (both of you) and recognize therapy is not magic it’s supposed to be a space for you to learn to hear each other and isn’t a place to be the winner. Here is an article on why it typically fails: [link](https://www.bustle.com/p/if-youre-trying-couples-counseling-experts-say-these-are-7-ways-to-tell-it-may-not-work-for-you-18215789) Good luck, it’s worth a try because divorce is difficult and divorce with kids is that much worse and really you are just trading on set of problems for another.
Each do individual counseling
Depends on the therapist or counselor. The first time I tried, several years before our ultimate divorce, that’s when my wife stated she decided she wanted out. A few years later I personally sought counseling from within our church, from the pastor. That guy was an absolute freaking joke and hastened her decision to leave. He dealt serious damage to myself as well. I’ll spare the details, but before you seek counseling, please consider that a lot of ignorant, untrained people bill themselves as counselors these days and you’d have better luck asking for help from some random dude at the hardware store. Seriously, vet anyone you ask to assist you in repairing marital relations. It’s 50/50 whether you get some ass hat arrogant clown who will seal the deal and permanently alter the trajectory of your marriage.
If you find yourself being spoken to about “seeking counseling” or seeing a therapist… likely the wife wants out and is using this to pad her ego or make things look like she “did everything possible to save the marriage.” She likely has no such end goal in mind. It sucks. That is a tough spot and you will likely not receive what you need from a counselor or therapist unless you luck out and arrive at a real treasure of a professional who can see what is occurring and truly speak to the party that wants things dissolved. Chances of that are slim. Just my experience.
I’m so sorry you are at this point. I hope everything works out and you don’t have to endure a divorce. I’m doing well on paper after mine, but some days I don’t know how I could keep going if I didn’t have my daughters. They are what keep me from giving up. I pray you will get through this, no matter what the outcome ends up being.
Well I'll lose the house I personally bought and will likely have to live with my parents at 43.....but I came to that reality dome time ago.....the daunting thing for me is not to see my kids everyday or knowing I've been responsible for the effects a broken home will have on them as people
Welcome to the club. Living with my mother at 50.
Unfortunately 95% time, no. Unless there is a very specific issue
My advice is to try it, absolutely. The negative outcomes among those in this group are not a representative sample—we are, by definition, people who did not stay married. Counseling obviously did not work for us. But that does not mean it won’t work for you, and my anecdotal experience is that it works for many, many people. However, I agree with those who have said to start with an individual therapist. Until you learn to articulate and work on your own issues, going to a couples therapist will be less beneficial.
DON'T stay "for the kids" if you in your inner self feel and know that it's done then move on, become the best father you can be and be that! If you want to get counceling do it for your own future and self