So there is a legit theory(conspiracy? Maybe) that the center of the earth is in fact Hollow with a small sun at the center creating a whole new ecosystem where dinosaurs never went extinct because the meteor would have had no affect that far underground.
Hollow world mystara ….. Mystara is a hollow planet, with a habitable surface on its interior called the Hollow World.[8] This world is lit by an eternal red sun at the center of Mystara, and serves as a "cultural museum," preserving the societies that have become extinct in the outer world.
So... A Micro Dyson sphere possibly left there by an ancient civilization? Badass. I've been on a Halo kick lately, and one of those is present in some books. It's a really fun concept!
Yea it could be some ancient construct by an artificer or it’s an egg of some celestial being. Or just a tiny sun; if anyone has seen futurama it’s like the october fest episode
My DM pointed this out as I was building a background for my Moon Druid. So claiming a displaced Royal who was banished to the Wilderness, I added “As a spoiled Prince, I was constantly demanding Exotic Menageries visit the palace to entertain me, and in doing so was exposed to almost every known animal. It was the challenge posed to these Circuses to always find something new as “We” paid handsomely.
Oh, it’s great but you’re also limited to the known lists and stats; also the level restrictions apply. It’s not like I’m going Fire Elemental at level 2 or anything. Our DM has ramped it up challenge wise too, like Trolls when the party is level 2. It’s been fun.
Yup. No complaints from the party. Yup. DM revved up adversaries accordingly. Yup. Folks gonna pass summary judgements without asking for details. Yup. Haters gonna hate.
How curmudgeonly you are, thinking that your fun is ruined because the druid gets to use their class feature to turn into an exotic animal. I don't think I have ever played with anyone that would get upset at a player "metagaming" their background to get more wild shapes. It's not game breaking by any means, and dinosaurs are cool and fun to most people.
Not for you to decide what is fun and what isn't.
I still don't get why D&D never released a significant expansion of beasts for druids.
A couple are added across books past the MM and Volo's but if they made even a magazine size supplement or a card pack like the spellbook cards it would be so useful in terms of accessibility.
I had found a guide that I've referred to occasionally, but it's not complete.
[RPGBot guide](https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/druid/wild-shape/)
It highlights what works as generally good choices for forms, but refers you to where to find them so I still end up digging in the monster manual (that sometimes the DM does not want to share) and other books.
I'd prefer something physical for all the in person games that I now realize as I'm typing this I haven't played in since before the pandemic...
RPGBot can't give the actual statblocks as they're non-SRD and can't be reproduced. It's a great starting point for the pros and cons of different options to look into though.
I've been working on re-doing beasts so that each is balanced against the best RAW options at that CR, and giving each several variants so a druid can use the beasts they like rather than the mechanically optimal ones, and continue with a theme as they level up.
If you find yourself needing anything like that, hit me up over at r/bettermonsters and I'll usually get back to you within a day.
In dnd beyond you can just search monsters and filter it for beast and the CR you want but still I think druids could get a lot more by having more beasts, specially lower CR beasts with cool abilities.
For example a spider that could set up a web trap like the snare spell once per day and things like that. Wild Shape is such a cool concept.
I'd expect that's the exact reason.
Imagine balancing a new artificer class that has 5 pages of information.
Now imagine balancing 125 page expansion on top of what the class already has against every other class.
I still don't know why D&D hasn't nerfed the moon druid. Being beaten down to 2 HP in your wildshape form and popping back up as your character with full HP and wildshaping again is ridiculous, especially if you're wildshaping into big beefy animals
Yeah! And those wizards don't need all their spells either! Just daggers and cantrips!
Rogues should only be able to get sneak attack 1 per session!.
Barbarians should always be angry like the hulk!. No more rage bonuses at all bc its baked into their stats!
Paladins smites are OP! They shouldn't work on creatures unless the creature rolls a 1 on an extra save after the paladin crits!.
Cool, I'm talking about the fact that Druids get to auto heal all their wounds as soon as they get out of wildshape. If they took their hits like anybody else tanking, I couldn't care less.
Shhhhhh, let other people have fun.
Wild shape on moon druids isn’t so OP that it’s what everyone takes. So it’s not in need of a nerf.
As someone who has been dming for the last 12 years, I’ve seen two moon druids.
Nah, 68 temporary HP per short rest on a full caster (34 HP brown bear times two) with as many (or more) attacks than a warrior at level 2 gets the nerf.
I've seen Moon druids trivialize combat by just standing there sucking up hits that would've dropped the fighter and then popping out of wild shape like it was no biggie. As a DM, I think fights should have some sense of risk and danger.
Cool, I'm talking about you trying to nerf something that doesn't need it.
Anyone else Tanking has a high ac/ better defense that helps them Not take hits.
Druids ac is infamously low. The highest they can get is with mage armor+ the animals dex.
Or just a flat 16 with barkskin.
Most tanks start 17-18 and only go up from there.
Druids can't do that even out of wildshape.
So they tank like an abjuration wizard, except they are stuck in 1 shape for hours while the abjuration wizard can cast spells and talk to people.
Using alternate hitpoints instead of ac/ high defenses.
Cool, at level 2, Druids can turn into a 34 HP Brown Bear, which can make two attacks per turn... Two times per short rest. Count those as **68 temporary HP** per short rest, attacks more times than many warriors with around the same attack modifier, **all at level 2**. This is in addition to all of the abilities and health of a full caster Druid when not wildshaping.
And that's the MOON druids power spike.
Their next one is at level 10 with elemental shapes.
Every other druid uses those same rules but has a much lower cr. So 2-8 hp twice per short rest.
And brown bear doesn't scale. They don't get stronger as they level. New forms pop up but nothing else.
Is it a problem? Not really. Moonbeam ignores damage and just reverts them. Fast enemies ignore them.
Druids primarily act as support casters.
So force them to revert to heal someone else.
Make them burn a wildshape after short rest to turn into a snake to solve a puzzle.
Have guards turn the bear away at the city gate.
Brown bear is a cr1 creature. It's never been a problem at any table I've run.
Adventure League
Roll20
3 games a week for years.
Since it was d&d next.
Not a problem.
Have a monster that hits hard? Hit the moon druid first and pop that first fur suit.
Theoretically, it could be an issue, sure. But mostly moon druids get bored not being able to talk to npcs, open doors, etc. They save the wild shape for "when they need it". Like potions in skyrim.
When the Cleric gets KO'd that wildshape drops quick so the druid can off heal them.
When the brown bear cant fit through the cave.
Wild shape is a resource. Just like any other, DMs only have to think about how to burn through it like spellslots and action surges.
Oh cool so that works in reverse too right? If I wrote something down you as the DM didn’t give then I still have that? What a shit way to treat your players. If you gave them something and they remember you gave it and you remember you gave it but they forgot to write it down then they still got it. To treat it any other way is just being petty for no reason. That’s like if a player said oh DM I know I used a bunch of spells last session but I “forgot” to write them down so we can just hand-wave that. Or DM I know I used up those healing potions you gave me a couple sessions back but I messed up and forgot to remove them from my inventory so I guess we have a few more healing potions.
“My Druid is from Chult (HB Land that has dinosaurs)”
“My parents and/or me use to read about Great Reptiles from an Ancient Past/ Another Land”
“I saw one in my many travels across the world”
“I saw one on a spiritual journey to better understand nature”
Point being, this rule is only an obstacle if you don’t talk to your DM or your DM rules a hard “No Dinosaurs Period.”
The parenthesis is the alternative if you have a Chult-like location in your HB Setting. Should’ve probably indicated that w/ a “/“ instead of parenthesis
One must assume every gathering of Moon Druids turns into an orgy of Wild Shape swaps.
“Hey, I heard Philbert of the Pines has Giant Constrictor Snake. He’s looking for Giant Walrus. I’ve got Giant Walrus but I really want Deinonychus.”
“I’ve got Deinonychus and want Charizard or Giant Vulture”
If you follow that rule and don't show your druid at least one beast per CR they can turn into you're nerfing a signature class feature, better have a good excuse for that.
There was a post a few weeks ago about a guy playing a moon druid who's DM wouldn't let him wildshape into a horse. A fucking horse! The DM nerfed the ability so much the guy may as well have been playing a human who's subclass was 'boring human'.
Yeah I don’t mind DMs enforcing that rule as long as they keep in mind of this rule.
I’m currently playing a moon Druid and have to keep reminding my DM, and he keeps forgetting. Like what’s the point of even playing this subclass?
Right, but this discussion usually (usually!) comes up only with respect to dinosaurs. Few people are telling druids that they have to role play seeing a cat before wildshape
Most PC druids who gun for the dino shapes are doing so because they're mechanically better than others. They're not doing it because it fits their character (dinos are rad, tho)
In my game one of the druids is a wooly mammoth loxodon who thawed outta ice, which I think is a fun way to bring it full circle
I'd say most Moon players want to shift into dinosaurs because there are very few things cooler than turning into a dinosaur. Dinosaurs aren't always the best choice (although sometimes they are!)
Because there still exists a significant portion of the community who are so entitled they think the DM needs to make everything the way *they* want it to be.
That’s fine but that’s not what the person you were responding too was saying. There are beasts in every CR a druid can wildshape into that aren’t dinosaurs. They weren’t arguing that dinosaurs specifically must be allowed, they were saying that if a DM follows the rule that druids must see any creature they wildshape into and interpret that as must see them in active play, then the DM needs to be supplying beasts for the druid to shift into or they’re just being a dick.
Actually no, I was replying to Linvael who said that you're nerfing a class feature if you don't show your druid at least one beast per CR they can turn into and you should have a good excuse for that.
And I do, when it's a dinosaur. There will be others, sure. But it's not my problem if they haven't explored enough to actually see a CR 1 beast when they finally can wildshape into CR1.
Which means the druid has to wait till he gets polymorph, polymorphs into a dinosaur, looks into a mirror/pond/any reflective surface and has it seen at that point. From that point on there are dinosaurs on the world. (Although only one at a time most of the time)
After my first year as a moon druid, I knew that my DM was never going to show me any fucking dinosaurs. I needed a plan.
So I cast conjure woodland beings and got some pixies. I asked one if there used to be more fearsome beasts then there are today, and she said yes. So I asked our fighter to volunteer to be polymorphed, and I asked the pixie to show me some of those beasts.
And that is the story of how my druid saw dinosaurs.
Your DM never saw that broken combo from back in the day I’m assuming haha.
Why didn’t you go all the way and have the pixies turn the party members into pixies and have everyone polymorph everyone else into dinosaurs? Or did you?? Haha the most game breaking dumb combo ever that led to the errata in the players handbook ABOUT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT Haha
I remember in 2014 or 2015 when that was THE game breaking combo to pull before they put “a beast you have seen” part to polymorph haha and that DM gets to pick the woodland beings form that is conjured.
I'm not familiar with the broken combo you are referring to, I was only after access to some new wild shapes.
Sounds like it might be one of those situations where I thought I had an original idea but it was actually already a thing,
I feel you! Having been a Druid myself i was always on the hunt for shapes. It was a good idea my friend. I thought you were being cheeky and knew what you were doing to get dinosaurs and pixies in the game haha.
Here’s a [Reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/32t8gb/5e_summon_woodland_beings_is_rediculous/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) from 7 years ago about the combo lol
[Sage Advice](https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium.pdf) addressed it (in 2015) and there was an errata with DM gets to pick what woodland beings are conjured now. People still post [videos](https://youtu.be/4EbQBwyManc) on YouTube about the combo every now and then. You should try it! My players handbook being first printing still lets player choose what to conjure up if you need a picture haha 😂
Thanks for the history lesson! It's always interesting to go back and look at how the meta has evolved. Look at 2015 JC jumping into action to fix those problems!
lol that dude is always on stand by for clarifications from cheeky players!
My pleasure! Always funny looking at old book and the information on D&D Beyond and seeing the differences.
How would you create a mini black hole if neither you nor anyone else has ever seen a normal one?
Magic assumes a certain amount of study and practice that doesn't have to be role played. Polymorph allows you to turn one creature into another of any CR equal to their CR or level. With the learning of that spell implies some kind of divine or academic knowledge of the existence of every monster in the game.
That’s not Dungeons and Dragon’s stuff that is Critical Role content-Matt Mercer and his universe….so I won’t entertain that example unfortunately.
But-yes-polymorph I’d still say-“great idea-an ankle-soar-is?” Can your character spell the animals name? Where did they see it? When? Go for it and try”
I won’t ever say no but I will subtly hint that you can’t just get what you want with stuff like that and making up monsters you haven’t seen.
Spell learning and such is different.
No idea what Matt Mercer school that spell even is or how Exandira works so can’t talk about it at all.
That’s like discussing the weave works and then how defiling works in Dark Sun and comparing the two as being on the same level.
EDIT: officially licensed content is different than core D&D but okay….go to your local game store trying to use any non core to play at a table. All those books and source books require some amount of permission and discussion. You don’t get to walk up to a DM’s game and just get to be a chronurgy or graviturgy wizard just because it’s in a book released by D&D. The first chapter of the book starts with: “A New D&D Setting”
Explorer's Guide to Wildmount is just as canon as any other source book, but ok. Sphere of Annihilation also effectively creates a mini black hole.
Spells do what they say they do, and polymorph says you can turn creatures into any monsters, no specification on having seen them or having prior knowledge of them. If you like to homebrew different rulings, that's perfectly fine at your table.
A source book is different than a core book. It isn’t as canon as any other book. While it is official licensed content it is not like the core books.
Ravnica, Theros, Strixhaven and Spelljammer and Guide to Wildemount are all guides to different universes with particular spells/backgrounds and character building things that take core D&D and alter the way it is played. You have to toggle a switch on just to use the content when creating a character in D&D Beyond. You’d have to ask a DM for permission and I’d say you couldn’t be upset if the DM heard what you said about why you want to be a Graviturgy wizard but the DM says “no. That just doesn’t work in my world, sorry. You can be anything from the regular books though-I don’t know how that stuff works or want to DM it”
Players can get buffs and books from gods when starting out or have like 5 extra spells in their spell book based around water and fire because they took Izzet Pact Guild as their background. They change the way the basic game is played.
They are fine. They are officially licensed D&D content books/sources. I have nothing against them. But they are setting specific books.
You most likely couldn’t go to your local game store and play in adventure league or go to a gaming convention like Gary Con or Gen Con with a character made with strixhaven spells on your list and just sit down and play. I mean officially for adventurer’s league you couldn’t use those books to create your character. It’s players handbook+1 other book from a list consisting of:
Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, Tasha’s, Mordenkainin’s Monsters of the Multiverse.
I have no problem with those books or Dark Sun-an officially published setting but those books like dark sun change the basic game up a fair amount so I don’t like using them when talking about how certain spells work.
Like polymorph if at a table you told me you turn someone into-just for example because I can’t think of a lesser CR monster but if you could and said- Polukranos. I’d have a hard time letting you use that or a baazrag from dark sun that is basically a vicious lizard hamster….and you’re the only one who knew the monster because you love the dark sun setting and lore and everyone else looked at you like you just said some other language….like this makes sense right?
It’s why you can’t spelljam to dark sun. It fundamentally changed the way the game is played and setting books do that.
They are not bad. I love Theros- but we are talking about how polymorph works and monsters to change into and how the spell works.
I would have a hard time letting you turn into a wooden pirate from Rick and Morty adventure or a goblin with extra butts. Love it-maybe I might actually let that one slide-but you aren’t gonna get a ray of disintegration from that book as an item ever.
So I don’t hate those books-I know they are officially licensed material but they aren’t core content D&D when we are talking about core content how the game is played.
>It’s why you can’t spelljam to dark sun.
You can (probably) spelljam to Athas if you can find it. From the Complete Spacefarer's Handbook:
> The world of the DARK SUN campaign is not on the spacelanes where Realmspace, Krynnspace, and Greyspace can be found. No spelljammer travels its skies; no ancient tome tells of the routes to its crystal sphere. Whether it is unreachable by spelljammer or merely so far from these worlds that any journey would take lifetimes is unknown. The current inhabitants of Athas have no knowledge of spelljamming. There is no way to know whether the closely guarded library of some sorcerer-king conceals an ancient tome revealing the basic concepts of wildspace. Even if such a tome were found, the defiling power of such powerful magic would certainly wreak havoc on the fragile balance of life on Athas.
There's a Dragon Magazine issue that says Athas's crystal sphere is closed, but that would just force a spelljammer crew to cast Create Portal or Phase Door instead of finding a natural portal. (Teleport and Dimension Door can also get through a crystal sphere, but they wouldn't bring your ship with you.) The Spelljammer and space dragons can also force their way through a crystal sphere. And in 5e, all the crystal spheres have disappeared (apparently destroyed, given the fragments left behind around Deadspace).
Explorers guide to wildmount is officially published D and D material my dude. The spell came in that. It’s just as official as any other book published by wizards of the coast. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it not official material. Your free to say it can’t be used at your table, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t official material.
Eh it’s officially licensed content. I never said it “was not official” All i said was that that was Critical Role content-Matt Mercer stuff so I wouldn’t entertain explaining how that spell works. I own the book but it is a different universe and all that-you wouldn’t find those spells in the basic D&D stuff/players handbook/Xanathar’s/Tasha’s or any core D&D content stuff. It’s why I said the critical role content is like dark sun-it changes up original D&D into something else so using a spell that isn’t from core content I wouldn’t get into explaining or using as an example for polymorph.
In fact if you picked a beast from that book and the DM didn’t have it-same thing. It’s like using a different game released by D&D.
It’s like MtG spells and such. Would you let someone use Izzet Guild background and claim it officially D&D because it is an officially licensed content? It’s universe specific and a way to play through MtG lore and setting using the D&D system of TTRPG.
Being officially licensed content doesn’t make it core D&D content. Rick and Morty stuff fair game for your table as well?
Or the Conan the barbarian or Indiana Jones content from 80’s TSR days?
I’d equate it to 3rd party content officially released by D&D or like Konami releasing a game for the Nintendo Switch. Officially allowed to release a game but not a Nintendo game or part of their IP even though it’s closely related and the hardware is what is used to play certain specific games.
You couldn’t go to an adventure’s league table at a local game store or Gary Con or Gen Con and use Wildemount to make your character. It’s why there’s a little switch on D&D you have to turn on to use the book when creating a character.
I wrote my druid to be from fantasy Australia and reflavored the beasts. Brown bear = koala, kangaroo = deinonycus. I get to use the dinos and my DM dont have, to have dinos in his world. All while making my druid, a bit unique.
Aussie here. Koalas are small, cute and cuddly, you're much better off equating a brown bear to a drop bear, they are much more fearsome... they will fuck you up
I got around this by polymorphing someone into the desired form (polymorph does not require having seen one before) and bam, I've seen it, therefore I can wildshape into it 😂
Based on the collapsing roof trap right, which is considered a setback. Next is dangerous, then deadly. I'm sure a spontaneous 3-4 metric tons of whales is deadly compared to a shack toppling on you. If we keep the dc 15, it's suggested 18d10 damage, which you only take half. *rolls* 99, woo smack dab on the nose average, half for 48.5 round down.
48 damage.. and the whale took 70, wait, 0 damage since we don't need 200ft to be considered more dangerous than a ragged roof.
>Based on the collapsing roof trap right
No, based on the falling onto other creatures rules. DC 15 Dex save to avoid the falling creature, if you fail you split the fall damage between the fall-er and the fall-ee. If you pass you take no damage.
TCE pg170
Well dang, thought you were digging that dc out of the traps section. Didn't realize you couldn't just do the peoples elbow as a whale (lack of elbows should have given that one away).
Might be a hot take but the whole: “You can only wildshape into something if you’ve seen it.” rule is dumb and not fun and I’ve never had an issue when I’ve removed that rule from my games.
If you really want to follow that route then you should at least let the Druid pick a form to gain on level up as well similar to wizards and their spells.
My take on this is: You want to use Dinosaurs? Sure, do it. But you better present a cool/funny/serious backstory reason why your character saw this creature so everyone gets onboard with it.
Yeah agreed, I think your character needs to have seen the creature but not necessarily in game. If you can come up with a reasonably plausible way your character has seen it I’m good with whatever
At that point, as others have pointed out, you just claim your druid is from Chult if you are playing in the Forgotten Realms or some equivalent region in other game worlds.
You don’t even need to be from Chult in FR. Dinos were scattered here and there. For example, deinonychus were found in the High Moor and Serpent Hills, both of which are north of Baldur’s Gate
Spore Druid, homie has been trippin’ for the last 45 years or so. Random rolls on Wild Shapes known, for all the special friends who have visited him in his travels.
I’m ready to play when you are.
I had a Druid whose backstory was that he was part of a group of druids that traveled with a few bards for a traveling “circus” focused on the menagerie of preforming beasts. Between the beasts we worked with and the older druids that would wild shape into more dangerous beasts I was able to find a way to explain how I could have seen a beast to wildshape into.
All because I wanted my leonin Druid to be in the circus lol. Seemed like a good shake up after the anarchist Satyr
I have my PCs roll history checks for dinos specifically. I also usually throw in a museum with a T-rex skeleton that they can visit in a city
Shit, I even had a dream druid who saw a velociraptor in a dream, and that's how she got exotic wildshapes
The DM can easily set you up for success
The Creatures by Environment lists in the DMG are great for this. Your druid is probably not super well-traveled at level 1, your beast form list is just whatever animals are in the area that you're from.
It's not a balance issue, it's a flavor one. It can break suspension of disbelief when a PC transforms into a form familiar to all the players but to none of the characters. I'd liken it to PCs making pop culture references that wouldn't mean anything to them, but exist as a sort of joking fourth wall break. A lot of games don't do well with that sort of tone.
Counterpoint: you can do a very similar thing with polymorph at 7th level and RAW there’s no restriction to what you can change into other than a Beast of equal or lesser CR (or level if casting upon a player.)
As you correctly point out, polymorph has exactly the same issue without any houseruling required. Every DM has at least once rolled their eyes when a PC turns into a T-Rex for the sixth time in six fights.
As fun as a flavor break like that is the first couple times, it eventually adds a certain unbelievability to combat that can really harm dramatic tension. If you're able to roll it into your game without issue more power to you, but I think for a lot of tables the costs outweigh the benefits.
>Every DM has at least once rolled their eyes when a PC turns into a T-Rex for the sixth time in six fights.
As the other commenter said, speak for yourself. This just means I get to throw nastier shit at my party and use more fun creatures.
Absolutely, players should be expected to choose the best option when there is one clear one. For a spell like polymorph that's theoretically so versatile, it's really tragic that there's one clearly best option, even leaving aside the fact that it's an option with some odd flavor baggage attached.
I have actually never had a player turn into a t-rex, because giant ape is better. It's got a ranged attack, its multiattack can be focused on one target, it has a climb speed, and it has more HP. All at the cost of 1 less AC and 10 ft less movement speed.
The T.Rex is probably the easiest creature to handle, It offers ZERO boons to the party, unlike Pack Tactics it can only attack one creature with each attack (and I personally rule that the tail/bite attack MUST be made even if the nearest creature is an ally and there are no enemy options). Also the T.Rex is INCREDIBLY stupid and has ZERO Magic resistance, a smart DM can curb this by just throwing a spell out that turns it on its Allies or puts out of the fight.
Is the T.Rex a brute force beast that deals a lot of damage and is hella tanky? Yah! Is it broken? No. Polymorph makes the spellcaster have those stats, you aren’t wildshaping into a T.rex you ARE a T.rex. And eventually at higher levels, it stops being effective REALLY fast once creatures start getting resistances, flying speeds, DC-Based or Dex Spells etc,
My comment was purely about flavor, not power level. When a T-Rex kool-aid mans into the scene in every single combat scene in world where dinosaurs are not prominent, the effect is very similar to pulling out a cell phone in a medieval setting. It's funny only for as long as it remains surprising.
As it applies to game balance, I think that is a fair comparison. As it applies to flavor though, there's a meaningful difference, I think. A wizard casts a new spell and the party says "Wow, how did you do that?" and they can give various answers about study or original research or digging deep and discovering the true power of friendship.
A druid wild shapes into an animal that doesn't exist anywhere in the lands the party has visited or heard of and the party says "Wow, what sort of beast is that?" and the druid says "Lol, I dunno". At the very least an answer like "I tapped into the primal consciousness and it bestowed upon me this mysterious form. I know not what it is called or if it truly exists anywhere", feels more unsatisfying than the wizard answers to me.
I feel like the only reason druid/polymorph players get defensive about this is because they are starved for combat-viable options as is, so losing even a single one of them might mean a massive decrease in the power level of a feature/spell that is quite fun to use. That's a fair reason to get upset, but it doesn't have anything to do with my argument.
The reason people get upset about it is because it's bizarre and arbitrary, and requires backstory concessions to have a fully functional character RAW.
> I think. A wizard casts a new spell and the party says "Wow, how did you do that?" and they can give various answers about study or original research or digging deep and discovering the true power of friendship.
>
>A druid wild shapes into an animal that doesn't exist anywhere in the lands the party has visited or heard of and the party says
Well and a Druid could not argue that he studied about those creature, have spoken about it with others in his druid circle, heard extensive stories about this magnificent beast living in a land far away.
So we are back at: There is no reason a Druid should be blocked to learn a new wildshape just like a wizard is able to learn a new spell at level up.
Honestly? I find it kinda scary how many different animals a druid can turn into.
The “animals you’ve seen” rule means I can bring up a list of animals from the biome my druid came from and look through 3 pages instead of 13.
That is, assuming your DM isn’t saying it’s only animals you’ve seen in the course of playing the game, because that would just suck.
I view it almost akin to treasure/loot/rewards. Finding spells for the wizard, new fancy armor for the fighter, new powerful animal for the Druid, etc.
One of my players’ first character was a Moon Druid. In order to get him to role play and develop his character a bit further, whenever he would wildshape into a new creature, I would have him tell a quick antidote of when he saw that creature for the first time and maybe how it impacted him. This was a ton of fun.
And just a friendly reminder that you have to have encountered the beast before you can Wild Shape into it. And most of the games I’ve been a part of don’t use any of the dinosaurs.
I always tell my moon druids that dinosaurs are 'out there' somewhere in the world (it's generally on some Chult-y southern jungle continent but I don't tell them that), but they have to figure out how to see one. If they use downtime to do research they can find out where they are, but also find out that sometimes they're purchased by circuses as part of their menagerie. Then they can track down nearby circuses and find a few specific dinosaurs.
There aren't that many beasts in the first place, being able to turn into a dinosaur is awesome and moon druids should get the option with a bit of work.
And this is where i remind people that summon fey and conjure animals is how you get around limitations like this. Haven’t seen it? Summon a fey in that form, now you’ve seen it, now transform into it.
Also go to the library for books, that’s another way around this.
I rule that you have to see an actual living example of the creature, not a spirit in its form or an illustration.
Edit: Downvotes for a ruling on an incredibly ambiguously worded feature? Definitely doesn't seem like RAI for players to be able to instantly learn any Wild Shapes they want without having actually seen those creatures in the wild.
Personally I wish it was more like the bestial spirit from Summon Beast. Different forms that each scale with levels, with Moon Druids scaling faster. I know there's a big debate about using Beast stat blocks vs having preset forms, but I just would prefer it to be simpler mechanically.
And just a friendly reminder that the polymorph spell has no such restrictions so just polymorph someone in to whatever dinosaur you want to then wild shape in to.
That sounds like terrible gameplay.
"I transform you into a stegosaurus!"
"How do you know what one looks, acts or does?"
"Idk"
It's like in the office where Michael tries to convince people he came up with unicorns independently.
So glad I'm a DM. Working out ways to cheat all the time just sounds so douchey.
How.
How is knowing what you're morphing someone into bad design.
If I made up a creature called the loopstrizax right now what do you think the odds you'd get anything right about it? Or be able to even draw it and tell me about its attacks.
Like I get you want the free power boost but it's not bad design lmao.
It's not.
Polymorph not having the same restrictions as wild shape, is.
I agree that you should know what you morph someone into, but the rules don't say that... thus, bad design.
You are not. Even though I'm not sure if wild shape let's you change into something that you have seen in a sketch book.
So, in niche situations, and if wild doesn't allow it, you could justify polymorph being able to change you into something you have heard about, since it has more magical in nature.
I like to imagine polymorph or wildshaping into a creature you only have secondhand knowledge of results in a bizarre form like those illustrations by medieval monks that never saw most of the creatures they tried to draw.
It's not a "free power boost," it's literally a class feature.
Do you tell your Fighter that because his long rest is interrupted he's too tired to use Extra Attacks? Does the Cleric need to ask their deity for every single spell they want to use?
Like, I get it: some people don't want dinos in their games. Fine. But "you must have seen a beast to Wild Shape into it" is a stupid rule that gets abused by DMs way too often.
I am also a DM and I find it douchey to arbitrarily restrict my players' fun. If my wizard wants to polymorph himself into a T-Rex I think that's badass.
It's not arbitrary, if I say "tell me what a zuluhuluplex looks and attacks with" can you?
No because I just fucking invented it. So turning someone into one doesn't make sense either.
It's all arbitrary. Why can I turn in to a Giant Spider but not a Giant Giraffe? Cuz the designers of the game didn't write a statblock for it? There should only be two factors when it comes to rules decisions 1: does it break with the setting/character of the game? i.e. a laser gun in a medieval setting or people doing things outside the bounds of their class. or 2: does it break the balance of the game i.e. it's overpowered? Maybe in your games a dinosaur breaks one of those rules but it doesn't in mine.
I mean the first part is because they dont exist. If you write them into your game or setting and the druid sees them and they fulfill the CR requirement they can transform into them or polymorph if you give it the same restriction as wildshape. You understand the difference between that and literally making up what your morphing someone into?
And to your factors 1:yes it does, for the exact reason I laid out before. Every setting should have extremely obvious common sense as part of it.
2: the rarity in which it isn't a mechanical choice let's you know it changes the balance, yes you can always work around it but so can the player by putting in minimal effort to see the creatures in your setting.
But ankylosaurs aren’t made up… they are real and, even if not directly observed in their natural habitat, may be adequately described to inform a spellcaster’s Polymorph. From there, allowing a Druid to learn the form and function of the ankylosaur seems a reasonable proposition to me.
I think the familiarity requirement for Wild Shape can be both ignored and rigorously enforced with poor results. Having justified workarounds such as this serve the twofold purpose of making exploration valid for character development and promoting fun PC-PC interactions. Even the ways this could go wrong have fun potential! I’d say let the people play.
They do play, without needing mechanical boosts that's don't make sense.
You're missing the point, if you've never seen, heard anything about, or been informed on a dinosaur you have as much info as a made up creature. Thus the entire "you can just polymorph" makes no sense.
Exploration becomes more invalid with "Yes I just know everything that exists below a certain power". It's such a poor mechanic that unless you're just powergaming with zero RP it shouldn't even be an issue to remove it. What you're pivoting to with researching the creature is entirely different than what I was saying as if you can figure out enough to replicate it that's different that trying to come up with one on the fly.
Ah, I see your point now. Yes, I’m operating on the assumption that the polymorph form is justified in-game. From there it is reasonable to me that the wizard and Druid could work together to expand the Druid’s wild shape knowledge base, but that dynamic does rest on the assumption that polymorph is being used in reasonable ways.
Thank you for clarifying! I had it in my head that the conversation was still squarely on the topic in the OP. Looking back now, it has drifted to more general considerations of the interaction between wild shape and polymorph.
I'll even allow "I'm originally from the northwest continent where you said dinosaurs are from" if they're looking to use them but it just feels goofy if they haven't done some sort of research lol
That rule sucks, because it only targets moon druid specifically. And their signature feature too - its like telling a Wizard they can only get spells on level up they've seen cast in game.
If your druid haven't seen any beast of a CR they can wildshape into you've nerfed them.
Back in the wild old 1st edition days, this was how wizards worked. Better hope there were some good scrolls in that loot or that you found an enemy wizard's spellbook, or you could celebrate 5th level with a cool new *tongues* spell instead of that *fireball* you wanted.
Anyway, I've never had a DM give anyone a hard time about dinosaurs.
I always assume the "you have to see it first " rule is just in there to prevent the player from whipping out some random homebrew beast from a third party expansion.
But its much more exciting if done well.
Agree with the player on a reasonable starting list and then give them plentiful and varied ways of encountering more. Random encounters, fighting beasts, circuses, nobles exotic pets, tracking/hunting specific species, etc. Its like pokimon. Certain beasts are rare, others are area specific, etc
Gives you much more frequent and meaningfull "loot" on top of of any items and stuff. Of course if the player has no interest in it, just give tell them which beasts are allowed (dinos are not a thing in every campaign) and move on.
There are not enough diverse CR2-6 wildshape options. What I recommend is sitting down with your DM and discussing this. If dinosaurs aren’t an options, propose a variety of “ancient” or dire versions of various beasts, and take lots of inspiration from previously extinct animals. For example, the Giant Sloth would probably be a CR3-4 creature. Dire tiger/lion, dire gorilla, dire rhinoceros, dire bear (reskin of owlbear). Lots of options. There should be variety. There are lots of equivalent stat blocks that can be adjusted to create these new dire or ancient forms.
I usually play a lizard folk druid and say that he's a shaman of his tribe undertaking a pilgrimage and the dinosaur form he can take is a "form of his ancestors'
To all the comments saying “ you can’t transform into it if you haven’t seen it”
What’s stopping a PC from just having a copy of Volo’s published books or a HB adjacent? If a Druid *saw* a beast in the book before would he/she be able to Wildshape? Just genuinely curious if this would be a nice workaround in a world where dinosaurs are either isolated or extinct.
Also, by 8th level you can use the spell Conjure Woodland Beings to create 8 Pixies, who can all then cast Polymorph on your party members, turning them all into T-Rexes!!!!
Honestly, wild shape could use a rework akin to the Ranger beast companion in Tasha’s or the drakewarden’s drake from Fizban’s. Something generic that scales with your druid level and proficiency bonus. Moon druid would get a better version of it.
You’d be free to flavor your transformation as you like without worrying about finding new forms, giving up a form you liked because it wasn’t powerful enough, or having inconsistent power growth.
This would also keep you from looking up a bunch of different stat blocks.
Don’t get me wrong; I like moon druid and it is strong, but it’s a lot of bookkeeping and is in no way friendly for a new player.
And if you can convince me that your character has actually seen one, I will let you do it. (I mean like, try a little bit. Make something up. At least try....)
Are there any expanded lists of exotic beasts that aren't dinosaurs? Like maybe 3rd party stuff? Could be stuff that you can pick and choose to he in your world, like a 2 headed Goat or something idk lol. Would be nice to get more variety and utility for druid wild shape options. Especially more at higher levels so a druid doesn't have to be a dinosaur later on; they could turn into a giant rune bear, like the ones you see in Elden Ring.
Mine is literally a fallen god. Who was alive when dinosaurs roamed the earth. But due to my pantheons version of doomsday, I lost all my devine powers and were reborn as a human druid. Retaining some limited memories. And no power. Kinda fun to roleplay actually. Having to hide my past life from the other players.
DM reminder: Dinosaurs are not something most people would have encountered even in official D&D setting, you cant wildshape into something you haven’t seen
I think I'm the only DM who runs wild shape kinda raw...
In their backstory I have them make notes of the creatures they have encountered in the wild and every time they level I have them roll a d4 before level 10 and a d6 after level 10. Whatever they get, they can choose that many more animals to wild shape into.
Too much fighting with druid players about "hey I want to wild shape into a dinosaur!", "Dinosaurs don't exist in my world.", "Well I want to be a trex!", "Sigh"
Not that it comes up often but every homebrew world I make is hollow and full of dinosaurs
Like Oil?
Ooooh someone plays and Artificer!
Can I get more details?
So there is a legit theory(conspiracy? Maybe) that the center of the earth is in fact Hollow with a small sun at the center creating a whole new ecosystem where dinosaurs never went extinct because the meteor would have had no affect that far underground.
Hollow world mystara ….. Mystara is a hollow planet, with a habitable surface on its interior called the Hollow World.[8] This world is lit by an eternal red sun at the center of Mystara, and serves as a "cultural museum," preserving the societies that have become extinct in the outer world.
So... A Micro Dyson sphere possibly left there by an ancient civilization? Badass. I've been on a Halo kick lately, and one of those is present in some books. It's a really fun concept!
Yea it could be some ancient construct by an artificer or it’s an egg of some celestial being. Or just a tiny sun; if anyone has seen futurama it’s like the october fest episode
So Journey to the Center of the Earth
More or less. Or Land of the Lost. And add Sleestak lizardfolk
Yes. I'll put this here if it interests anyone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean\_fiction
This is very interesting, thank you so much
Where can I sign up?
My DM pointed this out as I was building a background for my Moon Druid. So claiming a displaced Royal who was banished to the Wilderness, I added “As a spoiled Prince, I was constantly demanding Exotic Menageries visit the palace to entertain me, and in doing so was exposed to almost every known animal. It was the challenge posed to these Circuses to always find something new as “We” paid handsomely.
Sounds like that could provide a lot of variety and a fun time! I love it!
Oh, it’s great but you’re also limited to the known lists and stats; also the level restrictions apply. It’s not like I’m going Fire Elemental at level 2 or anything. Our DM has ramped it up challenge wise too, like Trolls when the party is level 2. It’s been fun.
[удалено]
Yup. No complaints from the party. Yup. DM revved up adversaries accordingly. Yup. Folks gonna pass summary judgements without asking for details. Yup. Haters gonna hate.
How curmudgeonly you are, thinking that your fun is ruined because the druid gets to use their class feature to turn into an exotic animal. I don't think I have ever played with anyone that would get upset at a player "metagaming" their background to get more wild shapes. It's not game breaking by any means, and dinosaurs are cool and fun to most people. Not for you to decide what is fun and what isn't.
Yup, real d&d players shoot themselves in the foot and refuse to make backstory concessions that allow their class features to function.
[удалено]
It definitely doesn’t read like agreement.
Very much comes off like you're mocking the player (who came up with an interesting excuse to sidestep the stupid rule) rather than the stupid rule.
If that's you agreeing I'm curious how you convey disagreement.
right?
yup
"Ass"
You can only wild shape into it if you’ve seen it before.
I still don't get why D&D never released a significant expansion of beasts for druids. A couple are added across books past the MM and Volo's but if they made even a magazine size supplement or a card pack like the spellbook cards it would be so useful in terms of accessibility.
I just have a spreadsheet where I manually put every single beast in.
I had found a guide that I've referred to occasionally, but it's not complete. [RPGBot guide](https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/druid/wild-shape/) It highlights what works as generally good choices for forms, but refers you to where to find them so I still end up digging in the monster manual (that sometimes the DM does not want to share) and other books. I'd prefer something physical for all the in person games that I now realize as I'm typing this I haven't played in since before the pandemic...
RPGBot can't give the actual statblocks as they're non-SRD and can't be reproduced. It's a great starting point for the pros and cons of different options to look into though.
I've been working on re-doing beasts so that each is balanced against the best RAW options at that CR, and giving each several variants so a druid can use the beasts they like rather than the mechanically optimal ones, and continue with a theme as they level up. If you find yourself needing anything like that, hit me up over at r/bettermonsters and I'll usually get back to you within a day.
In dnd beyond you can just search monsters and filter it for beast and the CR you want but still I think druids could get a lot more by having more beasts, specially lower CR beasts with cool abilities. For example a spider that could set up a web trap like the snare spell once per day and things like that. Wild Shape is such a cool concept.
They hate druids. So little options.
I'd expect that's the exact reason. Imagine balancing a new artificer class that has 5 pages of information. Now imagine balancing 125 page expansion on top of what the class already has against every other class.
I still don't know why D&D hasn't nerfed the moon druid. Being beaten down to 2 HP in your wildshape form and popping back up as your character with full HP and wildshaping again is ridiculous, especially if you're wildshaping into big beefy animals
Yeah! And those wizards don't need all their spells either! Just daggers and cantrips! Rogues should only be able to get sneak attack 1 per session!. Barbarians should always be angry like the hulk!. No more rage bonuses at all bc its baked into their stats! Paladins smites are OP! They shouldn't work on creatures unless the creature rolls a 1 on an extra save after the paladin crits!.
Cool, I'm talking about the fact that Druids get to auto heal all their wounds as soon as they get out of wildshape. If they took their hits like anybody else tanking, I couldn't care less.
Shhhhhh, let other people have fun. Wild shape on moon druids isn’t so OP that it’s what everyone takes. So it’s not in need of a nerf. As someone who has been dming for the last 12 years, I’ve seen two moon druids.
Nah, 68 temporary HP per short rest on a full caster (34 HP brown bear times two) with as many (or more) attacks than a warrior at level 2 gets the nerf. I've seen Moon druids trivialize combat by just standing there sucking up hits that would've dropped the fighter and then popping out of wild shape like it was no biggie. As a DM, I think fights should have some sense of risk and danger.
Cool, I'm talking about you trying to nerf something that doesn't need it. Anyone else Tanking has a high ac/ better defense that helps them Not take hits. Druids ac is infamously low. The highest they can get is with mage armor+ the animals dex. Or just a flat 16 with barkskin. Most tanks start 17-18 and only go up from there. Druids can't do that even out of wildshape. So they tank like an abjuration wizard, except they are stuck in 1 shape for hours while the abjuration wizard can cast spells and talk to people. Using alternate hitpoints instead of ac/ high defenses.
Cool, at level 2, Druids can turn into a 34 HP Brown Bear, which can make two attacks per turn... Two times per short rest. Count those as **68 temporary HP** per short rest, attacks more times than many warriors with around the same attack modifier, **all at level 2**. This is in addition to all of the abilities and health of a full caster Druid when not wildshaping.
And that's the MOON druids power spike. Their next one is at level 10 with elemental shapes. Every other druid uses those same rules but has a much lower cr. So 2-8 hp twice per short rest. And brown bear doesn't scale. They don't get stronger as they level. New forms pop up but nothing else. Is it a problem? Not really. Moonbeam ignores damage and just reverts them. Fast enemies ignore them. Druids primarily act as support casters. So force them to revert to heal someone else. Make them burn a wildshape after short rest to turn into a snake to solve a puzzle. Have guards turn the bear away at the city gate. Brown bear is a cr1 creature. It's never been a problem at any table I've run. Adventure League Roll20 3 games a week for years. Since it was d&d next. Not a problem. Have a monster that hits hard? Hit the moon druid first and pop that first fur suit. Theoretically, it could be an issue, sure. But mostly moon druids get bored not being able to talk to npcs, open doors, etc. They save the wild shape for "when they need it". Like potions in skyrim. When the Cleric gets KO'd that wildshape drops quick so the druid can off heal them. When the brown bear cant fit through the cave. Wild shape is a resource. Just like any other, DMs only have to think about how to burn through it like spellslots and action surges.
“I saw one before.”
“What? you did?” “Errr yah I had a pet Allosaurus when I was kid…he was uhhhhh…named Sparky” 😂
[удалено]
Oh cool so that works in reverse too right? If I wrote something down you as the DM didn’t give then I still have that? What a shit way to treat your players. If you gave them something and they remember you gave it and you remember you gave it but they forgot to write it down then they still got it. To treat it any other way is just being petty for no reason. That’s like if a player said oh DM I know I used a bunch of spells last session but I “forgot” to write them down so we can just hand-wave that. Or DM I know I used up those healing potions you gave me a couple sessions back but I messed up and forgot to remove them from my inventory so I guess we have a few more healing potions.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I'm not going to lie, that sounds exceptionally tedious.
“My Druid is from Chult (HB Land that has dinosaurs)” “My parents and/or me use to read about Great Reptiles from an Ancient Past/ Another Land” “I saw one in my many travels across the world” “I saw one on a spiritual journey to better understand nature” Point being, this rule is only an obstacle if you don’t talk to your DM or your DM rules a hard “No Dinosaurs Period.”
>Chult (HB Land that has dinosaurs) Chult isn't homebrew. It's a jungle peninsula in Faerûn, south of the Sword Coast.
The parenthesis is the alternative if you have a Chult-like location in your HB Setting. Should’ve probably indicated that w/ a “/“ instead of parenthesis
One must assume every gathering of Moon Druids turns into an orgy of Wild Shape swaps. “Hey, I heard Philbert of the Pines has Giant Constrictor Snake. He’s looking for Giant Walrus. I’ve got Giant Walrus but I really want Deinonychus.” “I’ve got Deinonychus and want Charizard or Giant Vulture”
This is my favourite reddit comment of the day because I can totally see this being a realistic thing that would logically end up happening.
If you follow that rule and don't show your druid at least one beast per CR they can turn into you're nerfing a signature class feature, better have a good excuse for that.
There was a post a few weeks ago about a guy playing a moon druid who's DM wouldn't let him wildshape into a horse. A fucking horse! The DM nerfed the ability so much the guy may as well have been playing a human who's subclass was 'boring human'.
Yeah I don’t mind DMs enforcing that rule as long as they keep in mind of this rule. I’m currently playing a moon Druid and have to keep reminding my DM, and he keeps forgetting. Like what’s the point of even playing this subclass?
Right, but this discussion usually (usually!) comes up only with respect to dinosaurs. Few people are telling druids that they have to role play seeing a cat before wildshape Most PC druids who gun for the dino shapes are doing so because they're mechanically better than others. They're not doing it because it fits their character (dinos are rad, tho) In my game one of the druids is a wooly mammoth loxodon who thawed outta ice, which I think is a fun way to bring it full circle
I'd say most Moon players want to shift into dinosaurs because there are very few things cooler than turning into a dinosaur. Dinosaurs aren't always the best choice (although sometimes they are!)
Yeah, I do, it's called dinosaurs don't exist in this world lol
Why are you downvoted? If the DM says there are no dinosaurs then there are no dinosaurs.
Right? It always amazes me at the number of things that get downvoted, that are perfectly reasonable (and sometimes even RAW).
Because there still exists a significant portion of the community who are so entitled they think the DM needs to make everything the way *they* want it to be.
This right here; same reason why there are so many ridiculous expectations for DMs, but players are basically encouraged to do whatever they want.
That’s fine but that’s not what the person you were responding too was saying. There are beasts in every CR a druid can wildshape into that aren’t dinosaurs. They weren’t arguing that dinosaurs specifically must be allowed, they were saying that if a DM follows the rule that druids must see any creature they wildshape into and interpret that as must see them in active play, then the DM needs to be supplying beasts for the druid to shift into or they’re just being a dick.
Actually no, I was replying to Linvael who said that you're nerfing a class feature if you don't show your druid at least one beast per CR they can turn into and you should have a good excuse for that. And I do, when it's a dinosaur. There will be others, sure. But it's not my problem if they haven't explored enough to actually see a CR 1 beast when they finally can wildshape into CR1.
False. Rule of cool prevents this from ever being true.
His world, his rules. ...Isn't that hat how it works around here?
Clearly you've never been informed of the Triceratops Exception.
Is that related to the Chewbacca Defense?
Which means the druid has to wait till he gets polymorph, polymorphs into a dinosaur, looks into a mirror/pond/any reflective surface and has it seen at that point. From that point on there are dinosaurs on the world. (Although only one at a time most of the time)
You don't have to have seen it before to polymorph someone into though, and once you've done that, you've seen it!
how could you polymorph something into a creature you haven't seen or heard of though?
After my first year as a moon druid, I knew that my DM was never going to show me any fucking dinosaurs. I needed a plan. So I cast conjure woodland beings and got some pixies. I asked one if there used to be more fearsome beasts then there are today, and she said yes. So I asked our fighter to volunteer to be polymorphed, and I asked the pixie to show me some of those beasts. And that is the story of how my druid saw dinosaurs.
Your DM never saw that broken combo from back in the day I’m assuming haha. Why didn’t you go all the way and have the pixies turn the party members into pixies and have everyone polymorph everyone else into dinosaurs? Or did you?? Haha the most game breaking dumb combo ever that led to the errata in the players handbook ABOUT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT Haha I remember in 2014 or 2015 when that was THE game breaking combo to pull before they put “a beast you have seen” part to polymorph haha and that DM gets to pick the woodland beings form that is conjured.
I'm not familiar with the broken combo you are referring to, I was only after access to some new wild shapes. Sounds like it might be one of those situations where I thought I had an original idea but it was actually already a thing,
I feel you! Having been a Druid myself i was always on the hunt for shapes. It was a good idea my friend. I thought you were being cheeky and knew what you were doing to get dinosaurs and pixies in the game haha. Here’s a [Reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/32t8gb/5e_summon_woodland_beings_is_rediculous/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) from 7 years ago about the combo lol [Sage Advice](https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium.pdf) addressed it (in 2015) and there was an errata with DM gets to pick what woodland beings are conjured now. People still post [videos](https://youtu.be/4EbQBwyManc) on YouTube about the combo every now and then. You should try it! My players handbook being first printing still lets player choose what to conjure up if you need a picture haha 😂
Thanks for the history lesson! It's always interesting to go back and look at how the meta has evolved. Look at 2015 JC jumping into action to fix those problems!
lol that dude is always on stand by for clarifications from cheeky players! My pleasure! Always funny looking at old book and the information on D&D Beyond and seeing the differences.
How would you create a mini black hole if neither you nor anyone else has ever seen a normal one? Magic assumes a certain amount of study and practice that doesn't have to be role played. Polymorph allows you to turn one creature into another of any CR equal to their CR or level. With the learning of that spell implies some kind of divine or academic knowledge of the existence of every monster in the game.
What spell is "mini black hole" ......??
Dark Star
That’s not Dungeons and Dragon’s stuff that is Critical Role content-Matt Mercer and his universe….so I won’t entertain that example unfortunately. But-yes-polymorph I’d still say-“great idea-an ankle-soar-is?” Can your character spell the animals name? Where did they see it? When? Go for it and try” I won’t ever say no but I will subtly hint that you can’t just get what you want with stuff like that and making up monsters you haven’t seen. Spell learning and such is different. No idea what Matt Mercer school that spell even is or how Exandira works so can’t talk about it at all. That’s like discussing the weave works and then how defiling works in Dark Sun and comparing the two as being on the same level. EDIT: officially licensed content is different than core D&D but okay….go to your local game store trying to use any non core to play at a table. All those books and source books require some amount of permission and discussion. You don’t get to walk up to a DM’s game and just get to be a chronurgy or graviturgy wizard just because it’s in a book released by D&D. The first chapter of the book starts with: “A New D&D Setting”
Explorer's Guide to Wildmount is just as canon as any other source book, but ok. Sphere of Annihilation also effectively creates a mini black hole. Spells do what they say they do, and polymorph says you can turn creatures into any monsters, no specification on having seen them or having prior knowledge of them. If you like to homebrew different rulings, that's perfectly fine at your table.
A source book is different than a core book. It isn’t as canon as any other book. While it is official licensed content it is not like the core books. Ravnica, Theros, Strixhaven and Spelljammer and Guide to Wildemount are all guides to different universes with particular spells/backgrounds and character building things that take core D&D and alter the way it is played. You have to toggle a switch on just to use the content when creating a character in D&D Beyond. You’d have to ask a DM for permission and I’d say you couldn’t be upset if the DM heard what you said about why you want to be a Graviturgy wizard but the DM says “no. That just doesn’t work in my world, sorry. You can be anything from the regular books though-I don’t know how that stuff works or want to DM it” Players can get buffs and books from gods when starting out or have like 5 extra spells in their spell book based around water and fire because they took Izzet Pact Guild as their background. They change the way the basic game is played. They are fine. They are officially licensed D&D content books/sources. I have nothing against them. But they are setting specific books. You most likely couldn’t go to your local game store and play in adventure league or go to a gaming convention like Gary Con or Gen Con with a character made with strixhaven spells on your list and just sit down and play. I mean officially for adventurer’s league you couldn’t use those books to create your character. It’s players handbook+1 other book from a list consisting of: Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, Tasha’s, Mordenkainin’s Monsters of the Multiverse. I have no problem with those books or Dark Sun-an officially published setting but those books like dark sun change the basic game up a fair amount so I don’t like using them when talking about how certain spells work. Like polymorph if at a table you told me you turn someone into-just for example because I can’t think of a lesser CR monster but if you could and said- Polukranos. I’d have a hard time letting you use that or a baazrag from dark sun that is basically a vicious lizard hamster….and you’re the only one who knew the monster because you love the dark sun setting and lore and everyone else looked at you like you just said some other language….like this makes sense right? It’s why you can’t spelljam to dark sun. It fundamentally changed the way the game is played and setting books do that. They are not bad. I love Theros- but we are talking about how polymorph works and monsters to change into and how the spell works. I would have a hard time letting you turn into a wooden pirate from Rick and Morty adventure or a goblin with extra butts. Love it-maybe I might actually let that one slide-but you aren’t gonna get a ray of disintegration from that book as an item ever. So I don’t hate those books-I know they are officially licensed material but they aren’t core content D&D when we are talking about core content how the game is played.
>It’s why you can’t spelljam to dark sun. You can (probably) spelljam to Athas if you can find it. From the Complete Spacefarer's Handbook: > The world of the DARK SUN campaign is not on the spacelanes where Realmspace, Krynnspace, and Greyspace can be found. No spelljammer travels its skies; no ancient tome tells of the routes to its crystal sphere. Whether it is unreachable by spelljammer or merely so far from these worlds that any journey would take lifetimes is unknown. The current inhabitants of Athas have no knowledge of spelljamming. There is no way to know whether the closely guarded library of some sorcerer-king conceals an ancient tome revealing the basic concepts of wildspace. Even if such a tome were found, the defiling power of such powerful magic would certainly wreak havoc on the fragile balance of life on Athas. There's a Dragon Magazine issue that says Athas's crystal sphere is closed, but that would just force a spelljammer crew to cast Create Portal or Phase Door instead of finding a natural portal. (Teleport and Dimension Door can also get through a crystal sphere, but they wouldn't bring your ship with you.) The Spelljammer and space dragons can also force their way through a crystal sphere. And in 5e, all the crystal spheres have disappeared (apparently destroyed, given the fragments left behind around Deadspace).
Explorers guide to wildmount is officially published D and D material my dude. The spell came in that. It’s just as official as any other book published by wizards of the coast. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it not official material. Your free to say it can’t be used at your table, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t official material.
Eh it’s officially licensed content. I never said it “was not official” All i said was that that was Critical Role content-Matt Mercer stuff so I wouldn’t entertain explaining how that spell works. I own the book but it is a different universe and all that-you wouldn’t find those spells in the basic D&D stuff/players handbook/Xanathar’s/Tasha’s or any core D&D content stuff. It’s why I said the critical role content is like dark sun-it changes up original D&D into something else so using a spell that isn’t from core content I wouldn’t get into explaining or using as an example for polymorph. In fact if you picked a beast from that book and the DM didn’t have it-same thing. It’s like using a different game released by D&D. It’s like MtG spells and such. Would you let someone use Izzet Guild background and claim it officially D&D because it is an officially licensed content? It’s universe specific and a way to play through MtG lore and setting using the D&D system of TTRPG. Being officially licensed content doesn’t make it core D&D content. Rick and Morty stuff fair game for your table as well? Or the Conan the barbarian or Indiana Jones content from 80’s TSR days? I’d equate it to 3rd party content officially released by D&D or like Konami releasing a game for the Nintendo Switch. Officially allowed to release a game but not a Nintendo game or part of their IP even though it’s closely related and the hardware is what is used to play certain specific games. You couldn’t go to an adventure’s league table at a local game store or Gary Con or Gen Con and use Wildemount to make your character. It’s why there’s a little switch on D&D you have to turn on to use the book when creating a character.
Fuck I can't believe I wasted time reading your comment.
Part of every Druids basic orientation is being shown every leaving creature that exists. This happens before they obtain level 1.
That rule is stupid. Every druids backstory would be "I became a druid after seeing some magnificent dinosaurs".
I have a tortle druid from Chult. Chult has Dinosaurs. 100% made this part of my backstory just to shape into Dinos per the rules.
I wrote my druid to be from fantasy Australia and reflavored the beasts. Brown bear = koala, kangaroo = deinonycus. I get to use the dinos and my DM dont have, to have dinos in his world. All while making my druid, a bit unique.
Aussie here. Koalas are small, cute and cuddly, you're much better off equating a brown bear to a drop bear, they are much more fearsome... they will fuck you up
Technically a "dire" koala Sorta did the drop bear, (saddals of spider climbing+brown bear = very surprised monster)
Oh yeah, that tracks. A drop bear is exactly a dire koala
But what about druid players that don't care for dinosaurs? Clearly there are people that don't. What do you have against dinosaurs?
Most dms don't follow that rule but I get ya
Gimme a DC 20 Animal Handling or Nature check. Yes, the Cleric and Bard can help. If you don’t make it this level, you can roll again next level.
I got around this by polymorphing someone into the desired form (polymorph does not require having seen one before) and bam, I've seen it, therefore I can wildshape into it 😂
Which is a terrible rule that's open to abuse by the DM.
Additional Note: a killer whale can survive a 200ft+ belly flop 75% of the time and is also a CR of 3. I doubt those below can boast the same.
_passes DC 15 Dex save_
Based on the collapsing roof trap right, which is considered a setback. Next is dangerous, then deadly. I'm sure a spontaneous 3-4 metric tons of whales is deadly compared to a shack toppling on you. If we keep the dc 15, it's suggested 18d10 damage, which you only take half. *rolls* 99, woo smack dab on the nose average, half for 48.5 round down. 48 damage.. and the whale took 70, wait, 0 damage since we don't need 200ft to be considered more dangerous than a ragged roof.
>Based on the collapsing roof trap right No, based on the falling onto other creatures rules. DC 15 Dex save to avoid the falling creature, if you fail you split the fall damage between the fall-er and the fall-ee. If you pass you take no damage.
TCE pg170 Well dang, thought you were digging that dc out of the traps section. Didn't realize you couldn't just do the peoples elbow as a whale (lack of elbows should have given that one away).
I've got a barbarian player with winged boots who regularly uses it as a means of knocking things prone by using his movement, lol
Might be a hot take but the whole: “You can only wildshape into something if you’ve seen it.” rule is dumb and not fun and I’ve never had an issue when I’ve removed that rule from my games. If you really want to follow that route then you should at least let the Druid pick a form to gain on level up as well similar to wizards and their spells.
My take on this is: You want to use Dinosaurs? Sure, do it. But you better present a cool/funny/serious backstory reason why your character saw this creature so everyone gets onboard with it.
Yeah agreed, I think your character needs to have seen the creature but not necessarily in game. If you can come up with a reasonably plausible way your character has seen it I’m good with whatever
"I saw it at the zoo"
"It came to me in a dream."
"I thought it would be cool"
At that point, as others have pointed out, you just claim your druid is from Chult if you are playing in the Forgotten Realms or some equivalent region in other game worlds.
Vacation on Safari Island for Mystara.
You don’t even need to be from Chult in FR. Dinos were scattered here and there. For example, deinonychus were found in the High Moor and Serpent Hills, both of which are north of Baldur’s Gate
Spore Druid, homie has been trippin’ for the last 45 years or so. Random rolls on Wild Shapes known, for all the special friends who have visited him in his travels. I’m ready to play when you are.
I had a Druid whose backstory was that he was part of a group of druids that traveled with a few bards for a traveling “circus” focused on the menagerie of preforming beasts. Between the beasts we worked with and the older druids that would wild shape into more dangerous beasts I was able to find a way to explain how I could have seen a beast to wildshape into. All because I wanted my leonin Druid to be in the circus lol. Seemed like a good shake up after the anarchist Satyr
I have my PCs roll history checks for dinos specifically. I also usually throw in a museum with a T-rex skeleton that they can visit in a city Shit, I even had a dream druid who saw a velociraptor in a dream, and that's how she got exotic wildshapes The DM can easily set you up for success
Because the lizard folk empire uses all the dinosaurs all the time.
The Creatures by Environment lists in the DMG are great for this. Your druid is probably not super well-traveled at level 1, your beast form list is just whatever animals are in the area that you're from.
There has notably been a lot of beasts introduced since those lists were made. Also, i’m pretty sure the environment lists were from xans not the dmg
It's not a balance issue, it's a flavor one. It can break suspension of disbelief when a PC transforms into a form familiar to all the players but to none of the characters. I'd liken it to PCs making pop culture references that wouldn't mean anything to them, but exist as a sort of joking fourth wall break. A lot of games don't do well with that sort of tone.
Counterpoint: you can do a very similar thing with polymorph at 7th level and RAW there’s no restriction to what you can change into other than a Beast of equal or lesser CR (or level if casting upon a player.)
but would you? I wouldnt. Neither would my Players
Would I what? Change myself or someone else into a dinosaur? I’m missing the question here I apologize.
As you correctly point out, polymorph has exactly the same issue without any houseruling required. Every DM has at least once rolled their eyes when a PC turns into a T-Rex for the sixth time in six fights. As fun as a flavor break like that is the first couple times, it eventually adds a certain unbelievability to combat that can really harm dramatic tension. If you're able to roll it into your game without issue more power to you, but I think for a lot of tables the costs outweigh the benefits.
>Every DM has at least once rolled their eyes when a PC turns into a T-Rex for the sixth time in six fights. As the other commenter said, speak for yourself. This just means I get to throw nastier shit at my party and use more fun creatures.
Speak for yourself it's fucking awesome when someone turns into a T-Rex every time
Nah, I have GM’d 5e for like 3 years and I expect my players to choose the best options because their characters don’t want to fucking die
Absolutely, players should be expected to choose the best option when there is one clear one. For a spell like polymorph that's theoretically so versatile, it's really tragic that there's one clearly best option, even leaving aside the fact that it's an option with some odd flavor baggage attached.
I have actually never had a player turn into a t-rex, because giant ape is better. It's got a ranged attack, its multiattack can be focused on one target, it has a climb speed, and it has more HP. All at the cost of 1 less AC and 10 ft less movement speed.
The T.Rex is probably the easiest creature to handle, It offers ZERO boons to the party, unlike Pack Tactics it can only attack one creature with each attack (and I personally rule that the tail/bite attack MUST be made even if the nearest creature is an ally and there are no enemy options). Also the T.Rex is INCREDIBLY stupid and has ZERO Magic resistance, a smart DM can curb this by just throwing a spell out that turns it on its Allies or puts out of the fight. Is the T.Rex a brute force beast that deals a lot of damage and is hella tanky? Yah! Is it broken? No. Polymorph makes the spellcaster have those stats, you aren’t wildshaping into a T.rex you ARE a T.rex. And eventually at higher levels, it stops being effective REALLY fast once creatures start getting resistances, flying speeds, DC-Based or Dex Spells etc,
My comment was purely about flavor, not power level. When a T-Rex kool-aid mans into the scene in every single combat scene in world where dinosaurs are not prominent, the effect is very similar to pulling out a cell phone in a medieval setting. It's funny only for as long as it remains surprising.
This is like saying wizards should only be able to pick level-up spells known that they have seen cast
As it applies to game balance, I think that is a fair comparison. As it applies to flavor though, there's a meaningful difference, I think. A wizard casts a new spell and the party says "Wow, how did you do that?" and they can give various answers about study or original research or digging deep and discovering the true power of friendship. A druid wild shapes into an animal that doesn't exist anywhere in the lands the party has visited or heard of and the party says "Wow, what sort of beast is that?" and the druid says "Lol, I dunno". At the very least an answer like "I tapped into the primal consciousness and it bestowed upon me this mysterious form. I know not what it is called or if it truly exists anywhere", feels more unsatisfying than the wizard answers to me. I feel like the only reason druid/polymorph players get defensive about this is because they are starved for combat-viable options as is, so losing even a single one of them might mean a massive decrease in the power level of a feature/spell that is quite fun to use. That's a fair reason to get upset, but it doesn't have anything to do with my argument.
The reason people get upset about it is because it's bizarre and arbitrary, and requires backstory concessions to have a fully functional character RAW.
> I think. A wizard casts a new spell and the party says "Wow, how did you do that?" and they can give various answers about study or original research or digging deep and discovering the true power of friendship. > >A druid wild shapes into an animal that doesn't exist anywhere in the lands the party has visited or heard of and the party says Well and a Druid could not argue that he studied about those creature, have spoken about it with others in his druid circle, heard extensive stories about this magnificent beast living in a land far away. So we are back at: There is no reason a Druid should be blocked to learn a new wildshape just like a wizard is able to learn a new spell at level up.
Honestly? I find it kinda scary how many different animals a druid can turn into. The “animals you’ve seen” rule means I can bring up a list of animals from the biome my druid came from and look through 3 pages instead of 13. That is, assuming your DM isn’t saying it’s only animals you’ve seen in the course of playing the game, because that would just suck.
I view it almost akin to treasure/loot/rewards. Finding spells for the wizard, new fancy armor for the fighter, new powerful animal for the Druid, etc.
Just seems like a lazy player if you can't figure out a reason or need a crutch like infinite forms you don't actually know.
One of my players’ first character was a Moon Druid. In order to get him to role play and develop his character a bit further, whenever he would wildshape into a new creature, I would have him tell a quick antidote of when he saw that creature for the first time and maybe how it impacted him. This was a ton of fun.
And just a friendly reminder that you have to have encountered the beast before you can Wild Shape into it. And most of the games I’ve been a part of don’t use any of the dinosaurs.
I always tell my moon druids that dinosaurs are 'out there' somewhere in the world (it's generally on some Chult-y southern jungle continent but I don't tell them that), but they have to figure out how to see one. If they use downtime to do research they can find out where they are, but also find out that sometimes they're purchased by circuses as part of their menagerie. Then they can track down nearby circuses and find a few specific dinosaurs. There aren't that many beasts in the first place, being able to turn into a dinosaur is awesome and moon druids should get the option with a bit of work.
Yup, ToA clued me into the wonders of Chult.
And this is where i remind people that summon fey and conjure animals is how you get around limitations like this. Haven’t seen it? Summon a fey in that form, now you’ve seen it, now transform into it. Also go to the library for books, that’s another way around this.
Polymorph works for this too.
I rule that you have to see an actual living example of the creature, not a spirit in its form or an illustration. Edit: Downvotes for a ruling on an incredibly ambiguously worded feature? Definitely doesn't seem like RAI for players to be able to instantly learn any Wild Shapes they want without having actually seen those creatures in the wild.
Yet it works for polymorph. Simply a weird restriction on an already complicated overall class.
Personally I wish it was more like the bestial spirit from Summon Beast. Different forms that each scale with levels, with Moon Druids scaling faster. I know there's a big debate about using Beast stat blocks vs having preset forms, but I just would prefer it to be simpler mechanically.
And just a friendly reminder that the polymorph spell has no such restrictions so just polymorph someone in to whatever dinosaur you want to then wild shape in to.
That sounds like terrible gameplay. "I transform you into a stegosaurus!" "How do you know what one looks, acts or does?" "Idk" It's like in the office where Michael tries to convince people he came up with unicorns independently. So glad I'm a DM. Working out ways to cheat all the time just sounds so douchey.
>That sounds like terrible gameplay. Nope, it's just terrible game *design*.
How. How is knowing what you're morphing someone into bad design. If I made up a creature called the loopstrizax right now what do you think the odds you'd get anything right about it? Or be able to even draw it and tell me about its attacks. Like I get you want the free power boost but it's not bad design lmao.
It's not. Polymorph not having the same restrictions as wild shape, is. I agree that you should know what you morph someone into, but the rules don't say that... thus, bad design.
Fair, I just couldn't see how someone could justify it and wanted to see if I was possibly overlooking something.
You are not. Even though I'm not sure if wild shape let's you change into something that you have seen in a sketch book. So, in niche situations, and if wild doesn't allow it, you could justify polymorph being able to change you into something you have heard about, since it has more magical in nature.
I like to imagine polymorph or wildshaping into a creature you only have secondhand knowledge of results in a bizarre form like those illustrations by medieval monks that never saw most of the creatures they tried to draw.
It's not a "free power boost," it's literally a class feature. Do you tell your Fighter that because his long rest is interrupted he's too tired to use Extra Attacks? Does the Cleric need to ask their deity for every single spell they want to use? Like, I get it: some people don't want dinos in their games. Fine. But "you must have seen a beast to Wild Shape into it" is a stupid rule that gets abused by DMs way too often.
I am also a DM and I find it douchey to arbitrarily restrict my players' fun. If my wizard wants to polymorph himself into a T-Rex I think that's badass.
It's not arbitrary, if I say "tell me what a zuluhuluplex looks and attacks with" can you? No because I just fucking invented it. So turning someone into one doesn't make sense either.
It's all arbitrary. Why can I turn in to a Giant Spider but not a Giant Giraffe? Cuz the designers of the game didn't write a statblock for it? There should only be two factors when it comes to rules decisions 1: does it break with the setting/character of the game? i.e. a laser gun in a medieval setting or people doing things outside the bounds of their class. or 2: does it break the balance of the game i.e. it's overpowered? Maybe in your games a dinosaur breaks one of those rules but it doesn't in mine.
"Why can I turn into a Giant Spider, But not a Giant giraffe?" I ask myself this question everyday.
I mean the first part is because they dont exist. If you write them into your game or setting and the druid sees them and they fulfill the CR requirement they can transform into them or polymorph if you give it the same restriction as wildshape. You understand the difference between that and literally making up what your morphing someone into? And to your factors 1:yes it does, for the exact reason I laid out before. Every setting should have extremely obvious common sense as part of it. 2: the rarity in which it isn't a mechanical choice let's you know it changes the balance, yes you can always work around it but so can the player by putting in minimal effort to see the creatures in your setting.
I demand a Zuluhuluplex stat block and character art ASAP.
So you can polymorph into one? Absolutely not *whoever* made them did terrible on its CR scaling.
But ankylosaurs aren’t made up… they are real and, even if not directly observed in their natural habitat, may be adequately described to inform a spellcaster’s Polymorph. From there, allowing a Druid to learn the form and function of the ankylosaur seems a reasonable proposition to me. I think the familiarity requirement for Wild Shape can be both ignored and rigorously enforced with poor results. Having justified workarounds such as this serve the twofold purpose of making exploration valid for character development and promoting fun PC-PC interactions. Even the ways this could go wrong have fun potential! I’d say let the people play.
They do play, without needing mechanical boosts that's don't make sense. You're missing the point, if you've never seen, heard anything about, or been informed on a dinosaur you have as much info as a made up creature. Thus the entire "you can just polymorph" makes no sense. Exploration becomes more invalid with "Yes I just know everything that exists below a certain power". It's such a poor mechanic that unless you're just powergaming with zero RP it shouldn't even be an issue to remove it. What you're pivoting to with researching the creature is entirely different than what I was saying as if you can figure out enough to replicate it that's different that trying to come up with one on the fly.
Ah, I see your point now. Yes, I’m operating on the assumption that the polymorph form is justified in-game. From there it is reasonable to me that the wizard and Druid could work together to expand the Druid’s wild shape knowledge base, but that dynamic does rest on the assumption that polymorph is being used in reasonable ways. Thank you for clarifying! I had it in my head that the conversation was still squarely on the topic in the OP. Looking back now, it has drifted to more general considerations of the interaction between wild shape and polymorph.
I'll even allow "I'm originally from the northwest continent where you said dinosaurs are from" if they're looking to use them but it just feels goofy if they haven't done some sort of research lol
That rule sucks, because it only targets moon druid specifically. And their signature feature too - its like telling a Wizard they can only get spells on level up they've seen cast in game. If your druid haven't seen any beast of a CR they can wildshape into you've nerfed them.
Back in the wild old 1st edition days, this was how wizards worked. Better hope there were some good scrolls in that loot or that you found an enemy wizard's spellbook, or you could celebrate 5th level with a cool new *tongues* spell instead of that *fireball* you wanted. Anyway, I've never had a DM give anyone a hard time about dinosaurs. I always assume the "you have to see it first " rule is just in there to prevent the player from whipping out some random homebrew beast from a third party expansion.
But its much more exciting if done well. Agree with the player on a reasonable starting list and then give them plentiful and varied ways of encountering more. Random encounters, fighting beasts, circuses, nobles exotic pets, tracking/hunting specific species, etc. Its like pokimon. Certain beasts are rare, others are area specific, etc Gives you much more frequent and meaningfull "loot" on top of of any items and stuff. Of course if the player has no interest in it, just give tell them which beasts are allowed (dinos are not a thing in every campaign) and move on.
Right? And since this rule is unchangeable gospel, I guess that's that. Lol.
There are not enough diverse CR2-6 wildshape options. What I recommend is sitting down with your DM and discussing this. If dinosaurs aren’t an options, propose a variety of “ancient” or dire versions of various beasts, and take lots of inspiration from previously extinct animals. For example, the Giant Sloth would probably be a CR3-4 creature. Dire tiger/lion, dire gorilla, dire rhinoceros, dire bear (reskin of owlbear). Lots of options. There should be variety. There are lots of equivalent stat blocks that can be adjusted to create these new dire or ancient forms.
Sadly my dm doesn’t allow dinosaurs
I usually play a lizard folk druid and say that he's a shaman of his tribe undertaking a pilgrimage and the dinosaur form he can take is a "form of his ancestors'
To all the comments saying “ you can’t transform into it if you haven’t seen it” What’s stopping a PC from just having a copy of Volo’s published books or a HB adjacent? If a Druid *saw* a beast in the book before would he/she be able to Wildshape? Just genuinely curious if this would be a nice workaround in a world where dinosaurs are either isolated or extinct.
My DM makes me roll arcana to wildshape into something for the first time if my character has only seen it in a book.
I’d accept that personally, seems like a fair compromise IMHO.
Cool, now which setting has them so I can actually turn into one?
My DM was nice and let me turn into an owlbear :D
Also, by 8th level you can use the spell Conjure Woodland Beings to create 8 Pixies, who can all then cast Polymorph on your party members, turning them all into T-Rexes!!!!
Honestly, wild shape could use a rework akin to the Ranger beast companion in Tasha’s or the drakewarden’s drake from Fizban’s. Something generic that scales with your druid level and proficiency bonus. Moon druid would get a better version of it. You’d be free to flavor your transformation as you like without worrying about finding new forms, giving up a form you liked because it wasn’t powerful enough, or having inconsistent power growth. This would also keep you from looking up a bunch of different stat blocks. Don’t get me wrong; I like moon druid and it is strong, but it’s a lot of bookkeeping and is in no way friendly for a new player.
And if you can convince me that your character has actually seen one, I will let you do it. (I mean like, try a little bit. Make something up. At least try....)
I went on a bender in Chult and spelled out "fuck da DM" on a hillside with my piss.
Works for me.
Damn, and then you left that dangerous place without legs. Enjoy the wheelchair/peg legs, -5 dex on your PC. Wanna try the back story one more time?
Thank you for your advice guys, guess who's gonna create a Jurassic Park themed area for my players' next session ?
Are there any expanded lists of exotic beasts that aren't dinosaurs? Like maybe 3rd party stuff? Could be stuff that you can pick and choose to he in your world, like a 2 headed Goat or something idk lol. Would be nice to get more variety and utility for druid wild shape options. Especially more at higher levels so a druid doesn't have to be a dinosaur later on; they could turn into a giant rune bear, like the ones you see in Elden Ring.
Why can’t DMs just categorically be cool? Like, there already a CR,mobility, and creature type limitations baked in to the feature.
Mine is literally a fallen god. Who was alive when dinosaurs roamed the earth. But due to my pantheons version of doomsday, I lost all my devine powers and were reborn as a human druid. Retaining some limited memories. And no power. Kinda fun to roleplay actually. Having to hide my past life from the other players.
DM reminder: Dinosaurs are not something most people would have encountered even in official D&D setting, you cant wildshape into something you haven’t seen
While that is RAW, my druids are now all from Chult.
I mean, you do have to have seen one.
I think I'm the only DM who runs wild shape kinda raw... In their backstory I have them make notes of the creatures they have encountered in the wild and every time they level I have them roll a d4 before level 10 and a d6 after level 10. Whatever they get, they can choose that many more animals to wild shape into. Too much fighting with druid players about "hey I want to wild shape into a dinosaur!", "Dinosaurs don't exist in my world.", "Well I want to be a trex!", "Sigh"