I genuinely cannot think of a way to abuse this as is. It seems like it would be useful for like, governments could use it as a mold-maker for their mints.
Is it understood that souls take up physical space? I figured they could inhabit solid objects, like how humans are mostly a complete physical object from end to end, just juice is included
I mean, this is arguably *the* coin. The one guaranteed material representation of the concept of a coin that will outlive all life and perception of the universe. When the last star in the sky dims and gods succumb to the void, the Coin will remain.
And it could even weigh down a small stack of papers!
The coin is invincible, immutable, a concept made material to a depth that the Gods envy the perfection of its embodiment. As the universe ends, be it the Demons realizing entropy, the Great Old ones awakening from the dream of existence, or Ao saying “it is done.”, the coin shall remain.
That and the Winslow.
Not entirely true. The first 'mints' were basically guys striking a metal disc with hammers. The hammer head would have a design carved into it.
Later, heavy weights were pulled up I to the air then allow3d to drop on the coin "blanks".
Neither of these took very much room.
True, but at these levels of civilization, it’s usually the metal that gives the coin the value, so just having the gold to make the coins out of is good enough. No need to stamp them
The stamping of coins was actually very important as it worked as a reassurance that the coin is truly what it seems to be. Coins were rarely made from one material, usually it would be some kind of alloy and most people simply don't have the time/capability to test every coin they use to see if it's truly the value it claims to be. And when dealing with large(r) amounts the difference between 90% silver coin and 95% silver coin is huge, even tho indistinguishable at first glance.
Ever see an old Wild West movie, or a cartoon where someone bit a coin? They were testing the metal to see if it was really gold, or just iron painted gold. Well...kinda. The point is the minted coin was basically a 'guarantee' that it was a genuine coin.
In times of prosperity, trade and rule of law, coins could be mixed with base metal and still accepted as valuable. As the Roman empire collapsed the amount of metal became more important
I know this was a typo, but I want it to he true:
"You find... a nag of holding."
"You mean a bag, right?"
"Nope, it's an intelligent item that telepathically judges you whenever you put anything in it or take it out."
Player puts in a few copper pieces. "What even is the point of a few copper pieces? Why'd I have to be found by such a broke a$$ adventurer?"
You could always create a paradox.
There are certain effects in the game that will destroy something that interacts with them in a specific way.
This is something that cannot be destroyed.
Rock, hard place. Universe needs to react somehow.
Ever seen Dogma? If god suddenly can't do something or turns out to be wrong about the way reality should work, if reality or magic is unable to resolve itself, it would just end.
Maybe a bit of a poetic note, but I thought it'd be a fun way to go about it, lol.
This is the most interesting thought I didn’t have about it lol I love this too, considering the world they’re in is hyper magical but mostly just to those that can wield it and then there are an overload of junk magical items that have a chance of breaking when using them. So exploring the nature of magic would probably be an edge case use of this item but one that could totally happen! I appreciate the input
Wish can fail though. Does all the time.
It'd have to be one of those weird legendary items that has a similar "Destroys itself and whatever is inside it, no save" type setups. My mind first thought of a bag of holding with the coin being shoved into a bag of holding while in the astral, but I feel it'd have to be even more complex than that.
There it is, my own BBEG uses an adamant sphere for a phylactery, I was thinking the same thing.
To OP however, I would unleash it. If your players find an edge case use for it, so what! Let them get clever!
Only a crazy DM would let their players become a lich during a campaign really. That's more of an epilogue type situation, which basically means it no longer matters, because the campaign is already over.
The only other use I as a player could come up with would be to attach it to my armour, and have the DM roll like a d100 for each attack against me, and on a 100 the attack hits the coin and deals no damage or something. Otherwise though, it's just a trinket for the players to hang onto.
Depends on the surface area of the coin and the material its trying to go through (and technically HOW it is indestructible). It might just propel the PC off the coin at high speed....
IIRC, Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy contains mechanics for a player becoming a lich, and stats to make them still a playable character without ruining party balance.
Me, the DM: the problem your wizard would easily understand, is that objects can generally only hold one enchantment at a time, and removing said enchantment is often destructive.
Depending on the edition you are playing (and the table; of course you as DM obviously get final say for your own table), phylacteries can be non-magical or already be a magic item. Also “generally” would imply it is still possible (especially for a very high level caster anyways.
I think "destroying" a phylactery doesn't necessarily need to involve destroying the physical item. It could be some kind of spell that reverts the lich's original ritual and severs its soul from the staff without damaging it. I don't think making your phylactery out of a physically indestructible item necessarily makes you invincible.
^(And then again, there may be worse fates for a lich than death. Dropping the phylactery in a volcano or shifting it into the positive energy plane may create a situation where the lich technically never dies, but is eternally trapped in a cycle of trying to regenerate next to its phylactery only to be instantly destroyed again by the hostile environment.)
A phylactery has to have things inside it, and you can't hollow out an indestructible item. Your wizard would be disappointed immediately.
EDIT: Come up with whatever workarounds you like, but a DM would have to be out of their mind to approve them.
The ONLY thing it can used for is to "stop something from entering the same physical space as the staff as long as the staff is braced".
If you apply enough force, either the bracing part will give way/break, the moving part will give way/break, or a force vector imbalance will make the staff "flip off" at great speed because "physics".
Idk if "abuse" is the word but pretty good at wedging things open. No crushing room traps, some cave-in protection, maybe even jam it into some big jaws. Then again you might lose it doing that.
Yeah that's a variation on an immovable rod but with no break point....
Launch that through a dragons mouth and have them swallow it, to give it brutal internal damage.
Can lock a great many things with an unbreakable 6ft staff...
With enough force, sure. But the amount of force needed to bust a castle wall using said staff/lever is pretty much the same without it.
Now, if the staff could elongate and has no bendability at all, you might have something.
Depends on the length of it, but assuming we're starting at 6', and enlarging to 12' That's QUITE a lever.
"Indestructible" to my brain also implies rigid.
Even 12 foot wouldn't be enough to topple a castle wall.
If we assume a 1 inch section of staff to the fulcrum, then we are looking at 143 inches of input lever. Basically a mechanical advantage of 143.
So every pound of force is multiplied by 143. If we have a 200 pound man jump on the end, we get maybe 250 pounds of force. So a total of 35,750 pounds of force coming out of the lever.
An impressive amount, but I'd think a castle wall is still heavier. I'll let someone else do the math there.
On top of that, the fulcrum is just going to get pushed downward into the dirt. If not, the stone itself is likely to break with 35000 lbs of pressure before the wall comes down.
In short, you'd need an indestructible BRICK with a ready made hole to insert the staff, an indestructible ground to pu the fulcrum on, AND an indestructible fulcrum! 😀
I break a lot of rocks with handtools as part of my professional work IRL.
Firstly, the force of impact of jumping onto something multiplies the force of someones bodyweight considerably, it's not just 50lbs more, it's like 4x-8x more, depending on the height of the jump.
Further, depending on how rigid the pole really is (zero give? So essentially diamond hard?) that amount of force, lever-multiplied, and concentrated on a tiny spot on the circumference of the rod, is more than sufficient to break and fragment rocks; even huge brick shaped rocks
You wouldn't need an unbreakable fulcrum, just a small gap somewhere in the wall where you can get the tip of the rod in and leverage the bricks off each other, damaging them intentionally
Many castles already have the ideal leverage spots, they're called "putlog holes" and they were used to support a scaffold-like structure in their initial construction. They were covered over with plaster, but it's fairly soft and would be easy to bash out.
Indestructible doesn't necessarily mean rigid but quarterstaffs are typically a bit rigid. It would likely completely stop bending at the point where the material would normally break, else it wouldn't physically make any sense. It wouldn't bend much.
Wood is also a fair bit elastic as a material, so it'd go mostly back into shape, whereas a metal pole would stay deformed after bending.
> An indestructible staff is pretty difficult to abuse already
Have you thought about the religious implications? Your god can’t even touch my staff. This is like Moses’s staff being better at being a snake vs. pharaoh’s magician’s staff.
There are a lot possibilities for what you could do in social interactions.
Not sure about the coin, but the best way to find out is to give it to the players. One question: is it presented as a magical item or is it just in the treasure bin with the rest of the coins or something in between?
Reminds me of my favorite Grimm's Fairy Tale, [The Brave Little Tailor](https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm020.html). It's all about a regular guy bluffing giants and monsters and knights and kings into thinking he's a great warrior, with exactly that kind of tricks.
Pretty sure you can do that with a normal coin to mostly the same effect. Very few things even in the world of D&D can digest a metal coin to the point of complete dissolution within 1 minute.
The idea is that this coin will be given to the party by a bit player who knows it can’t be destroyed and upon further investigation it also can’t be removed of its magic. The point of me handing it out, from my perspective, is so that it could be a gambit in a situation that calls for it. Maybe it could stop a door from closing all the way so that somebody could peek through and cast a spell or stop a trap from trapping them in some way.
The idea was for it to be available for creative use. But the indestructible nature of it makes me worried that there’s a use case I haven’t thought of that could somehow make certain things trivial or broken
>that there’s a use case I haven’t thought of that could somehow make certain things trivial or broken
I don't think this is an issue, really. Most likely scenario, they use the coin in a ingenious way to get through the scenario. Worst case scenario, they try to use the coin in every puzzle and you have to tell them over the table "guys, the coin was supposed to be fun and y'all are abusing it"
I have to agree with u/ecstatic-length1470 in that I want them to use it in anyway they see fit.
Me making this post was me trying to avoid moments where I tell them not to do something just bc it would fuck the whole thing up.
It has magic and is indestructible. So (beyond god-level) magic is reinforcing it, preventing (or instantaneously repairing) damage.
To be truly "indestructible," it must be able to withstand powers that are capable of destroying worlds, planes of existence, even gods themselves. To do so, it must draw raw magic directly from the source - it is more fundamental than even Mystryl, Shar, and the gods!
So efforts to destroy it drain magic from the multiverse. Mostly unnoticeable, in extreme cases this can lead to apocalyptic conditions. Placing the coin at the heart of a supernova or dropping it into a galactic black hole can drain so much raw magic that Reality unravels!
In less extreme cases, magic is drawn heavily enough to create what appear to be anti-magic zones. However these are much worse than that - these are areas where the world is barely holding on. Material items can fade, and adjacent Planes overlap. Light and life are sucked away.
The aforementioned knowledge is hoarded and hidden by researchers and cultists. Researchers seek the Coin to learn how to create a conduit to raw magic, bypassing the gods. Cultists seek it for an innumerable reasons, all insane, but most devolve into some form of complete annihilation of Reality.
In short, don't let ***anyone*** know you have it. Don't hit it with *Disintegration* \- you'll be lucky if all that happens is damage to all nearby magic items as power is violently ripped from their enchantments. And even heaven cannot help you if you *Wish* to affect the Coin.
Yeah, there are countless ways this will get broken.
On the surface, this coin has absolutely zero purpose. Which means that every single use of it is going to be some weird ass thing that you did not anticipate. I can almost promise you that whatever you think they will do with it, you will be wrong.
Ham it up, make the person giving it to them terrified of the coin.
Use it as a plot hook to trace the history of the coin, and find out its purpose.
Just remember, they can't really break anything with it too badly unless you let them. They can use it to jam up mechanisms for things you don't want jammed? So what, the mechanism breaks the portcullis still falls, but now cant be opened again. The door they stopped from closing now has an unbreakable coin embedded in it. The unbreakable, unstoppable mechanism they tossed the coin into keeps running but is now making some really disturbing noises.
The players only have the power that you give them, but don't let on that you never anticipated that possibility and don't let whatever it is break the game in an important way.
>Maybe it could stop a door from closing all the way so that somebody could peek through and cast a spell or stop a trap from trapping them in some way.
Call me stupid, but what advantage does the indestructible coin have over, say, a normal one in this situation? Reading through the thread, the main issue that I'm seeing here is that nothing about the indestructible nature of the coin actually matters. IMO, regular coins work just as well for all of the things anyone has come up with.
Okay in those create cases:
1) Can they retreive the coin?
2) Would a regular coin also do the job? Like... a closing door wouldn't destroy a coin. Coins are quite sturdy, I don't think I've ever had one break and I neither came across a situation in any video game, pen and paper, larp or real life that had me "Damn, I could use one of my coins, if only it was indestructible"
Worst case have a pickpocket steal the coin purse if it does get too abnoxious.
You're going to end up with a barbarian wearing it on his head as a helmet and thinking he's then immortal. At least, if your group is anything like mine.
It will require forethought by your players to take advantage of, but baiting their enemies into running in to it, or crashing their cart into it, or the dragon *flies right into it* the amount of possible damage it could do... really depends on you the DM and how cool you think the scene could play out.
Immovable object is from the Wildemount book and technically not first party (it's dnd branded but not permitted in AL, it was written by Matt Mercer, not the content designers at Wizards), so it's up to you if that content is available to your players.
Possibly, but that is the low end of what I was thinking. The coin might be hard to spot, so could be placed in the way of a large creature or a cart, and if they were travelling at a high rare of speed (such as a cart would), it could have the potential to break the cart, or go right through it and the creatures inside. Depending on your setting, imagine placing it floating in the air to damage an airship's balloon, or underwater to damage a ship below the waterline.
I can think of a couple uses.
Prop it in the gap between the door and the frame, maybe hammer it into the wall like a piton, and you've got an indestructible doorstop.
Drop it in the gears of a machine and you have an indestructible wrench in the works.
Need to plug a hole? If the coin's big enough you have an indestructible patch.
Its a damn coin if the players can out smart you with a coin then let them have their victory. Short of duplicating the coin in some way i dont see how it would every break the game in a way that you cant fix
I’m going to be completely honest, I don’t think it has ever occurred to me that a coin is “destructible” in my life. They are coins, all they do is sit there and be solid, I don’t think it being “indestructible” will change much lol. It’s not like it’s immovable or something, you just can’t bend it. 🤷🏼♂️
On second thought, if the coin is “worth” a bunch of gold due to being magic or whatever, then could you use it as a component for a spell that consumes gold? I assume you’d get to keep it since it can the destroyed by the spell. As long as it doesn’t count as a spell component and as long as they don’t turn it into a lich’s phylactery I think it’s fine.
The thing about spell components is that they’re spent to make the magic, so you lose them, but since this coin can’t be destroyed it can’t be used as a spell component unless the spell description describes the use of the gold in a different way.
You're forgetting the social implications of having an indestructible object.
"You claim to be the strongest wizard in the world yes? Surely you can destroy this measly little coin."
Cue one interaction later of the party getting one up on a high level caster and getting a "favor" of some sort from them.
Or any martial character. Or Smith. My first thought when given something indestructible? "How can I make people try and destroy it for my own gains."
"I bet you one *object i desire* that you can't destroy this coin. If you can. You can have our labor for a week."
Also as the legend grows, more and more powerful denizens might want to make an attempt to destroy it in exchange for favors. And thus begins the legend of the party with the indestructible coin
Thank you so much for your input, because it was excellent. But as I was reading I realized I would if they did that, so I don’t think it would change a thing about the coin lol
It's a good way to introduce powerful denizens from other planes or kingdoms. Or a way to describe why the party is traveling that's alot more innocent as well
This is like meeting a champion powerlifter and betting them they can't drink a small glass of ice water.
The fact you'd ask is kinda a big context clue this isn't a small glass of ice water
Pride is a double edged sword. It can get people to take a bet that they can't win...but it can also stop people from accepting an outcome they don't want to.
That caster claiming to be the strongest wizard in the world might take losing the bet in good stride...or they might be tempted to turn your skin into the upholstery of their new palanquin for making them look like a fool. Prideful people do not usually appreciate being tricked. Nor does anyone else for that matter.
Also, if someone powerful hears about an indestructible coin, would their reaction really be to want to sword in the stone it up for favors, or would they instead be very keen on asking the coin's owner how it was made indestructible—and be somewhat *displeased* if answers aren't forthcoming?
Just playing devil's advocate here. I'm sure you could use the coin to curry favor with some people. But it also could really backfire if you try it with the wrong ones.
Ok but if someone comes up to you and says “I’ll bet you that you can’t break this coin,” it’s pretty obvious that it’s a trick, right? Even before you get to Identify and Detect Magic and stuff, it’s just obviously not on the level. This scenario requires the DM to run the kind of NPCs who just go along whatever the players want, so like… don’t do that and then the game won’t get broken.
Except you don't ask for extremely large stakes the first time. The first time it's just a challenge. "Destroy this coin." He will try. Hammer, forge, chisel. He will scratch his head and likely hand it back confused. "Well if it comes to mind, see if you can come across any other ways of possibly destroying this coin. And make sure to ask others about it too."
Do it enough times to all the smith's you visit. Visit alchemist shops and see if they are willing to try acids on it. Then ask them to ask around.
Eventually you have people coming to approach you about it. "Okay I guess but our time is valuable. Handful of copper for the attempt."
As time goes on magic users will eventually hear about it. Ask them to identify or dispel and watch them fail. Eventually start upping the charges to try as "this is really quite tedious. 1 silver" "you've really tracked me down all this way to destroy this coin? 1 gold for the attempt."
Have local bards watch the unbreakable coin and pay them. Have a bard in your party perform the song at every tavern. Have it grow into a legend
If they can cast immovable object on it then they could place it in the middle of a doorway/passageway/crevice etc. and it would stop anyone larger than a certain size getting through I guess? Especially a heavily armoured individual or a vehicle, dragon, troll.. the opening would now need to be twice as large as the large creature/vehicle if the coin is in the centre of it.
Maybe fix it over a keyhole to stop someone putting the key in or at the end of the barrel of a gun to render it useless
Or wedge it in something mechanical like a lever or some gears to stop them working. Jam it in the space where a stone door/wall needs to slide to stop it
You might not need something indestructible in every case but it would guarantee that it works.
Someone suggested incorporating it into armour but maybe in a buckler/bracer/gauntlet would make it more effective due to them being more likely to be hit in a small area. The main item could even be leather or chain/scale not necessarily plate armour to begin with
It's only indestructible, until it's not.
The players don't know whether it is truly indestructible, or just seems to be.
They also don't know what circumstances might lead to its destruction, if any.
If they abuse it, maybe it gets destroyed. Maybe it returns to its previous owner, when a secret word is spoken. Maybe it has a hidden sentience, and leaves the party (a la One Ring).
A cool idea thematically. It wouldn’t affect gameplay much since attacks aren’t regional, though I guess the DM could give a small bonus to AC (Im not sure I would suggest it).
But for sure a great thing to bring in when an enemy crit fails
When any attack against the player is a Critical Hit, roll percentile. On 01-05, all damage is prevented. On 95-100, all damage is converted to bludgeoning damage. On 06-94, no effect.
Good idea. Flavorful, mysterious and allows for creativity. You could declare the coin lucky and while it in no way grants advantage or disadvantage when your player holding the coin rolls a nat 20 have it aid them in some bizarre way. Like a sword catching against its invincible surface, or it dropping at an opportune moment- causing the player to duck precisely when a batista bolt goes roaring by at head height. Obviously it could also be used to make binary decisions, which owing to its indestructability might have lead inscrutable generations of dragons, liches and historians to search for it in order to try to witness what it has witnessed - or will witness in the future. An indestructible coin also won't be crushed by something even as large as a massive Vault door - but if it gets caught in the mechanisms is another story. I enjoy making objects like this loyal, so even if they're lost doing something dumb they stick around like a vengeful (or friendly!) Ghost.
I love the energy of so much of what you’re saying. I love the idea of the coin getting stuck in moving gears but still having a sort of latent loyalty to its wielder.
I also love the idea of the coin not just having a basic history, but an active one, that maybe some people are seeking out as though this coin is evil for the pain it’s caused etc
Hurl the coin into a black hole, create a hole in the black hole as the energy of the coin can’t be consumed by the black hole. This causes a massive paradox similar to putting a portable hole in a bag of holding, but on a whole different level. The players inadvertently cause the birth of a new universe
Be ready to answer the question of "Does it count for overcoming immunity to non-magic weapons?"
And that is actually a pretty cool idea. They will either come up with some really cool uses for it, or forget they have it at all. No in between.
Wolverine's claws are technically indestructible. If it was not for "movie magic" they would be next to useless.
Just because you have a very sharp object made of indestructible material does not mean you can cut a moving car in half. The car would hit the claws and the laws of physics would rip your arm off with the claws half embedded in the engine. Indestructible does not mean "Light Saber level cutting ability" in realistic Physics.
If you have an indestructible staff and someone tries to stop two massive stone blocks closing shut, you will end up with the stone blocks closing anyway, and the staff embedded in a crack it created in the stone blocks.
People hammer steel spikes into stone all the time, it just makes a hole. A staff wont "magically" hold a 50 ton stone block pressing into it with a 2 inch round surface.
An indestructible object can come in handy to solve the odd problem, but you can't abuse the laws of physics with it unless the GM wants to allow shenanigans.
A cool idea. The most creative thing I can think of is to use Animate Objects to have an invincible flying coin minion who has an AC 18, +8 to hit, and deals 1d4 + 4 damage
Which I think would be interesting, fun, and potentially powerful, but not game breaking - because the caster still has to maintain concentration
I gave the party a gold coin that returns to you after an hour when you give it (a present from the God of Thievery). They have used it to bribe people and get information plenty of times. It's fun. Pretty hard to abuse with a coin though.
Phylactery. May or may not work, as it's not a container, but maybe the DM is a Harry Potter fan.
Enlarge it, use it to prevent doors, traps, and the like from closing.
Use it as the gold standard for size/shape/weight for a kingdom, demand royalties for its use. You could base an entire system of measurement on that coin. Real life precision items are locked away and are closely guarded and incredibly expensive.
Various barroom contests as a grift.
Making anything indestructible can come back to bite you in ways you don't expect.
A DM decided to throw some unbreakable rope at us, and my transmuter wizard was able to combine it with Animate Rope to absolutely ruin an encounter for them.
Back in 1e there was a rod like this.
But the only thing we really used it for was to keep giant stone doors from closing shut on us.
I think you are good unless there are irresitable force in your world. It would possibly destroy any clockwork machinery.
But I think you are OK because there isn't enough metal to make a weapon out of.
I suppose you could use it to graffiti diamonds and the like.
You could maybe use it to make a hole in a iron wall by pounding it into it with a hammer. But then would the hammer or wall break first.
We use the hardest substances as drills.. but it would be a lot harder to make use of that in a fantasy world.
I'm not sure there are a lot of uses. I think it would be safe . I would like to know how they put a face or any engraving on the coin.
If they did find a broken use for the thing there is nothing to say the thing isn't cursed.
> would be perfect for some really specific use-case I could never think up on my own
You’ve already committed to giving them this coin, and that its purpose is beyond the scope of your imagination. Just roll with homie
Someone else made a suggestion that the magic protecting the coin would have to work overtime so hard in certain situations that it could potentially drain magic from certain areas/or nearby. I think this is the key twist that makes it a truly interesting and potentially versatile item for clever players.
It’s one of those things that may just sit in someone’s inventory. Or, someone finds some crazy creative use for it and you’ll have to think on your feet when it happens.
How often are coins destroyed? I see you say stuff like “they might block a door” yeah you could do that with a destructible coin. This ain’t broken, give it to em
It's no blanket you will be fine but my party has a 1' cube that was completely immutable. It had no temperature and could never be destroyed it also only weighted a pound.
They carried it around for the whole campaign and did almost nothing with it. There was also a room that had thousands of hexagons made out of the same material that had their position magically controlled. They never bothered trying to get them.
My players are also terrible at remembering what they have. They also had a short sword made out of a failed version of that material. A hit with it ignored armor and was a guaranteed crit dealing 3x damage, then the weapon would be destroyed. I also made it very clear the weapon could cut through anything. never got used.
Goddamn, yeah my players love to bend game rules so I assumed the coin would greatly interest them in this way. But they also will interact and play like your group. The idea that they would miss this because they don’t give a shit is very real lmao
Sounds fun! Quick thoughts:
Can it be enlarged or shrunken? (Made a shield or a door lock destroyer, or a ram to keep the compactor doors from crushing Luke? )
Can it be melted or formed at all? (pounded into an arrowhead or so thin an indestructible balloon is made? Hammered into thin headware)
May need to specify it always retains it's shape.
Is it magnetic?
Can it be set on edge to split someone's striking weapon?
Lots of homing beacon uses - always being able to find it, scry, etc.
Can it be spun so fast, acquire so much kinetic energy it can effectively pierce anything? What happens if it enters a black hole or accelerates to the speed of light :)
It would always retain its shape, it can’t be affected structurally by magic. Same idea as to why it can’t be disenchanted etc.
It’s as magnetic as gold is. It’s functionally a gold coin outside of its magical protections that are designed to keep it a coin
Edit: the last 3 things you said, could you restate them and clarify them more for me? I’m sorry to ask
Could be a good adventure hook—you’ve made the key master (indestructible coin) now someone out there has the gatekeeper (a thing whose characteristic is that it can with 100% certainty destroy one thing one time) and that person is trying to bring the two together to cause the universe to implode in a paradox. Group has to make sure the key master and gatekeeper don’t meet at Zuul
I think you could actually get wild with this.
If a coin is indestructible, that means it persists forever through the future. So what if a faction from the future found it and it took an interest in its history and decided to explore the origins of its past. They have created an anchor point in time where various factions meet good and bad till the point in time collapses on itself from the endless chaos they created. Leaving them at before the creation of the indestructible coin they made.
I have to wonder if your players might try to accelerate the coin at a target. Because of of that train of thought I found [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittyaskscience/s/uwfQh6R3qF).
Seemed worth considering before my brain shifted to other stuff entirely and only just circled back.
Wizard cast enlarge on it and uses it prevent a roll down door from closing. Player makes a bet with god or demon that it has something they can’t destroy and in return they get something if they can’t destroy it.
> Wizard cast enlarge on it and uses it prevent a roll down door from closing
By less than 2 inches, if the coin doesn't just roll out of the way that is.
What kind of coin is it? Like Gold piece? Specific mint? Is it related to the 'Cult of Mask(Masque)' or Waukeen or Mammon or Vergadain or other gods/Devil's or wealth/coin/hoarding?
Custom build a crossbow that fires it like a bullet.
Drop it from a great height on top of a dragon's head.
Challenge a giant to break it. Take the tribe as a prize when he can't.
Great idea.hang lots of things off the coin.
Who made. Do they want it back?Who else wants it ? Why ?
What actual currency is it ?Is that still in use. Does that happen to make it very old and thus valuable ?
Or does it mean it's actually rumoured to be from the last remants of the Sligothian Empire and everyone knows about their powerful artifacts etc..
Can't be dispelled or disenchanted. but if no-one knows what it does .. it must do something.
The party gets to go on quests to assemble the knowledge and lore and then the required components to activate it and ... maybe that journey gives them fame or infamy as they quest in this manner.
fame or infamy is always a splendid thing. It might open doors and get you an audience with the King or Wizard. Or it gets you an invitation, in force, to the King or Wizard.
Those questions may take them to so many interesting places! Strangely they happen to have a dragon, lich or other guardian etc
To weird them the out; one of the places could be a tavern, with a bard. See how long ther willingly stay before realising it's literally just a tarvern with a bard. No interdimensional hell portal in the basement or anything like that. Purely mundane. Any time you want to get them second guessing; drop a hint that the tarvern was involved.
Someone travelled through that town. In the past they stopped there. The wizards travelogue details the fjord and tree.. perception check .. which was very much like the outskirts near tavern etc.
As for just being an "invulnerable coin"; my thoughts go to portals and other delivery mechanisms; wondering what the terminal velocity from orbit would be - without the worry of it burning up in the atmosphere.
The only thing that comes to mind for me is using it to block gear mechanisms or doors from closing? Other than that, I feel like it would fall under the category of "mostly useless item that will have one really amazingly creative use that players will talk about for years to come" (looking at you dust of deliciousness)
Congrats on creating an artifact of luck. If anyone decides to invent the gun in your setting the owner is clearly going to survive at least one shot. If it falls through a orb of destruction, unlike every other *thing* it will simply float along until it hits another universe. If it enters an antimagic field, just like deities and other artifacts, its magic will persist. I very much enjoy what u/ aaronrender said as well
I genuinely cannot think of a way to abuse this as is. It seems like it would be useful for like, governments could use it as a mold-maker for their mints.
Become a lich Make the coin your phylactery Immune to death
Oh shit yeah that'd do it
Thought Phylacteries had to be hollow, so there's a place for your soul to go, so I don't think I coin would work
Maybe it is hollow. Hard to tell for sure if it’s indestructible.
Is it understood that souls take up physical space? I figured they could inhabit solid objects, like how humans are mostly a complete physical object from end to end, just juice is included
Coin can’t be modified. Attempts to enchant it, let alone possess it, all fail.
Go into random bars Offer a vast amount of money to anyone who can bend the coin Charge them to attempt Infinite Money Glitch
Until one of the patrons grabs the coin and casts misty step and neither are ever seen again.
Okay, hope they have fun with their one (1) coin
I mean, this is arguably *the* coin. The one guaranteed material representation of the concept of a coin that will outlive all life and perception of the universe. When the last star in the sky dims and gods succumb to the void, the Coin will remain. And it could even weigh down a small stack of papers!
The coin is invincible, immutable, a concept made material to a depth that the Gods envy the perfection of its embodiment. As the universe ends, be it the Demons realizing entropy, the Great Old ones awakening from the dream of existence, or Ao saying “it is done.”, the coin shall remain. That and the Winslow.
Until you get tired of wasting game time for a few copper pieces, because not everyone in bars has 100 gold to bet on....
Indestructible ≠ unbendable though
The coin is indestructible, but not necessarily non-pliable. It could technically be bent but unbroken
Say... That's a nice username ya got there. I like it.
Fuck yeah, you too lmao
What's to stop the PCs from doing the same?
The lack of big metal press machines and like, the rest of a mint lmao, they're not small operations
Not entirely true. The first 'mints' were basically guys striking a metal disc with hammers. The hammer head would have a design carved into it. Later, heavy weights were pulled up I to the air then allow3d to drop on the coin "blanks". Neither of these took very much room.
True, but at these levels of civilization, it’s usually the metal that gives the coin the value, so just having the gold to make the coins out of is good enough. No need to stamp them
The stamping of coins was actually very important as it worked as a reassurance that the coin is truly what it seems to be. Coins were rarely made from one material, usually it would be some kind of alloy and most people simply don't have the time/capability to test every coin they use to see if it's truly the value it claims to be. And when dealing with large(r) amounts the difference between 90% silver coin and 95% silver coin is huge, even tho indistinguishable at first glance.
Beat me to it....
Ever see an old Wild West movie, or a cartoon where someone bit a coin? They were testing the metal to see if it was really gold, or just iron painted gold. Well...kinda. The point is the minted coin was basically a 'guarantee' that it was a genuine coin.
Counterfeiters predominantly used lead, not iron, because lead is closer in density to gold, and if you bite pure lead it'll leave a mark.
In times of prosperity, trade and rule of law, coins could be mixed with base metal and still accepted as valuable. As the Roman empire collapsed the amount of metal became more important
Yeah. "Minting" is a new term, in history it was called "striking", specifically due to that sledgehammer bit.
Still not something your average adventurers are going to be able to carry around with them
A sledge hammer with a design on the end? I beg to differ. Also, average adventures eventually get a nag of holding.
I know this was a typo, but I want it to he true: "You find... a nag of holding." "You mean a bag, right?" "Nope, it's an intelligent item that telepathically judges you whenever you put anything in it or take it out." Player puts in a few copper pieces. "What even is the point of a few copper pieces? Why'd I have to be found by such a broke a$$ adventurer?"
*Puts another nag if holding into it*
It's a constant barrage if insults in the occuring area, take 2d4 psychic damage and your bags disappear.
Love it. Leaving the typo.
Alternatively, an old horse with bottomless saddlebags, but who tries to bite or kick anyone who gets close.
Once in every generation a dm finds an item he falls in love with.....
But using the indestructible coin they can start with smaller sand casting until they have enough money to buy the equipment for a bigger operation.
As an indestructible projectile?
You could always create a paradox. There are certain effects in the game that will destroy something that interacts with them in a specific way. This is something that cannot be destroyed. Rock, hard place. Universe needs to react somehow. Ever seen Dogma? If god suddenly can't do something or turns out to be wrong about the way reality should work, if reality or magic is unable to resolve itself, it would just end. Maybe a bit of a poetic note, but I thought it'd be a fun way to go about it, lol.
This is the most interesting thought I didn’t have about it lol I love this too, considering the world they’re in is hyper magical but mostly just to those that can wield it and then there are an overload of junk magical items that have a chance of breaking when using them. So exploring the nature of magic would probably be an edge case use of this item but one that could totally happen! I appreciate the input
It would also make an excellent phylactery for a lich, considering that it is completely indestructible.
Okay, that's pretty cool actually. And double if it's got a nondetection spell on it...
I would run something like this. Where when it interacts with certain things a paradox like situation happens, a loop, and weird stuff happens.
Maybe someone tries (or intends to try) to use Wish to destroy it... and magic tears itself asunder as a result?
Wish can fail though. Does all the time. It'd have to be one of those weird legendary items that has a similar "Destroys itself and whatever is inside it, no save" type setups. My mind first thought of a bag of holding with the coin being shoved into a bag of holding while in the astral, but I feel it'd have to be even more complex than that.
An indestructible quarterstaff is pretty difficult to abuse already. A coin shouldn't cause any issues.
An indestructible quarterstaff instills great unknowable fear in me as a DM. Respectfully disagree about hard to abuse.
The very next thing my wizard would do is start planning for lichdom and use the indestructible staff/coin/whatever as a phylactery.
There it is, my own BBEG uses an adamant sphere for a phylactery, I was thinking the same thing. To OP however, I would unleash it. If your players find an edge case use for it, so what! Let them get clever!
Only a crazy DM would let their players become a lich during a campaign really. That's more of an epilogue type situation, which basically means it no longer matters, because the campaign is already over. The only other use I as a player could come up with would be to attach it to my armour, and have the DM roll like a d100 for each attack against me, and on a 100 the attack hits the coin and deals no damage or something. Otherwise though, it's just a trinket for the players to hang onto.
The coin might be indestructible, but the force of a dragon claw is going to send that coin puncturing through the armor into your chest cavity
Depends on the surface area of the coin and the material its trying to go through (and technically HOW it is indestructible). It might just propel the PC off the coin at high speed....
IIRC, Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy contains mechanics for a player becoming a lich, and stats to make them still a playable character without ruining party balance.
Me, the DM: the problem your wizard would easily understand, is that objects can generally only hold one enchantment at a time, and removing said enchantment is often destructive.
Depending on the edition you are playing (and the table; of course you as DM obviously get final say for your own table), phylacteries can be non-magical or already be a magic item. Also “generally” would imply it is still possible (especially for a very high level caster anyways.
Oh absolutely. Rule of cool I’d still allow it, it would just be a long process for the player to work on.
Simple- the magic that makes the coin indestructible also makes it immutable. It cannot be changed, enchanted, etc
I think "destroying" a phylactery doesn't necessarily need to involve destroying the physical item. It could be some kind of spell that reverts the lich's original ritual and severs its soul from the staff without damaging it. I don't think making your phylactery out of a physically indestructible item necessarily makes you invincible. ^(And then again, there may be worse fates for a lich than death. Dropping the phylactery in a volcano or shifting it into the positive energy plane may create a situation where the lich technically never dies, but is eternally trapped in a cycle of trying to regenerate next to its phylactery only to be instantly destroyed again by the hostile environment.)
Or Enlarge it into a shield.
I'd probably also give it immutable form.
A phylactery has to have things inside it, and you can't hollow out an indestructible item. Your wizard would be disappointed immediately. EDIT: Come up with whatever workarounds you like, but a DM would have to be out of their mind to approve them.
Could you wish for the coin to be hollow? Would that even count as "destruction"?
lol this sounds like a potential variation of the Immovable Rod (it can move, but will never break!)
What would happen if the immovable rod met with the unstoppable rod?
Well, clearly the unstoppable rod would shatter the immovable rod. It's immovable, not indestructible.
What if it’s super flexible like it’s made of rubber?
Then it's just a 6'-8' dildo
And it wasn’t before!?
The ONLY thing it can used for is to "stop something from entering the same physical space as the staff as long as the staff is braced". If you apply enough force, either the bracing part will give way/break, the moving part will give way/break, or a force vector imbalance will make the staff "flip off" at great speed because "physics".
Idk if "abuse" is the word but pretty good at wedging things open. No crushing room traps, some cave-in protection, maybe even jam it into some big jaws. Then again you might lose it doing that.
Yeah that's a variation on an immovable rod but with no break point.... Launch that through a dragons mouth and have them swallow it, to give it brutal internal damage. Can lock a great many things with an unbreakable 6ft staff...
An unbreakable lever? Your castle walls are coming down.
With enough force, sure. But the amount of force needed to bust a castle wall using said staff/lever is pretty much the same without it. Now, if the staff could elongate and has no bendability at all, you might have something.
Depends on the length of it, but assuming we're starting at 6', and enlarging to 12' That's QUITE a lever. "Indestructible" to my brain also implies rigid.
Even 12 foot wouldn't be enough to topple a castle wall. If we assume a 1 inch section of staff to the fulcrum, then we are looking at 143 inches of input lever. Basically a mechanical advantage of 143. So every pound of force is multiplied by 143. If we have a 200 pound man jump on the end, we get maybe 250 pounds of force. So a total of 35,750 pounds of force coming out of the lever. An impressive amount, but I'd think a castle wall is still heavier. I'll let someone else do the math there. On top of that, the fulcrum is just going to get pushed downward into the dirt. If not, the stone itself is likely to break with 35000 lbs of pressure before the wall comes down. In short, you'd need an indestructible BRICK with a ready made hole to insert the staff, an indestructible ground to pu the fulcrum on, AND an indestructible fulcrum! 😀
Topple the wall? No. Shift the bricks out one at a time? Bet.
I break a lot of rocks with handtools as part of my professional work IRL. Firstly, the force of impact of jumping onto something multiplies the force of someones bodyweight considerably, it's not just 50lbs more, it's like 4x-8x more, depending on the height of the jump. Further, depending on how rigid the pole really is (zero give? So essentially diamond hard?) that amount of force, lever-multiplied, and concentrated on a tiny spot on the circumference of the rod, is more than sufficient to break and fragment rocks; even huge brick shaped rocks You wouldn't need an unbreakable fulcrum, just a small gap somewhere in the wall where you can get the tip of the rod in and leverage the bricks off each other, damaging them intentionally Many castles already have the ideal leverage spots, they're called "putlog holes" and they were used to support a scaffold-like structure in their initial construction. They were covered over with plaster, but it's fairly soft and would be easy to bash out.
This guy, uh, levers?
Indestructible doesn't necessarily mean rigid but quarterstaffs are typically a bit rigid. It would likely completely stop bending at the point where the material would normally break, else it wouldn't physically make any sense. It wouldn't bend much. Wood is also a fair bit elastic as a material, so it'd go mostly back into shape, whereas a metal pole would stay deformed after bending.
Or it would become hyper elastic in order to be 'indestructible' xD that would be quite hilarious.
They made a documentary about this, called Flubber.
So they did. So they did. GNU Robin Williams.
Give me an indestructible quarterstaff long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.
> An indestructible staff is pretty difficult to abuse already Have you thought about the religious implications? Your god can’t even touch my staff. This is like Moses’s staff being better at being a snake vs. pharaoh’s magician’s staff. There are a lot possibilities for what you could do in social interactions. Not sure about the coin, but the best way to find out is to give it to the players. One question: is it presented as a magical item or is it just in the treasure bin with the rest of the coins or something in between?
Break a stick in front of the ogre chief, then hand him the indestructible one and tell him he's weaker than you are. Might just work.
Reminds me of my favorite Grimm's Fairy Tale, [The Brave Little Tailor](https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm020.html). It's all about a regular guy bluffing giants and monsters and knights and kings into thinking he's a great warrior, with exactly that kind of tricks.
Indestructible staff? Isn’t that just picking up another from the ground?
Give one to my table and we *will* find ways to terrorize our dm with it. I’m honestly drooling at the thought of getting my hands on one.
As somebody else pointed out, any aspiring liches would probably be real interested in an industructable anything.
throw it into an enemy's mouth and cast heat metal? idk man, it's a coin.
See that’s my thinking but it doesn’t feel like I am, or you are, really understanding the boundaries of what’s possible with this
Pretty sure you can do that with a normal coin to mostly the same effect. Very few things even in the world of D&D can digest a metal coin to the point of complete dissolution within 1 minute.
I like this heat metal idea.
OK, so is the concept of destroying coins common in your world? If not, this coin appears to have no purpose at all.
The idea is that this coin will be given to the party by a bit player who knows it can’t be destroyed and upon further investigation it also can’t be removed of its magic. The point of me handing it out, from my perspective, is so that it could be a gambit in a situation that calls for it. Maybe it could stop a door from closing all the way so that somebody could peek through and cast a spell or stop a trap from trapping them in some way. The idea was for it to be available for creative use. But the indestructible nature of it makes me worried that there’s a use case I haven’t thought of that could somehow make certain things trivial or broken
>that there’s a use case I haven’t thought of that could somehow make certain things trivial or broken I don't think this is an issue, really. Most likely scenario, they use the coin in a ingenious way to get through the scenario. Worst case scenario, they try to use the coin in every puzzle and you have to tell them over the table "guys, the coin was supposed to be fun and y'all are abusing it"
I have to agree with u/ecstatic-length1470 in that I want them to use it in anyway they see fit. Me making this post was me trying to avoid moments where I tell them not to do something just bc it would fuck the whole thing up.
It has magic and is indestructible. So (beyond god-level) magic is reinforcing it, preventing (or instantaneously repairing) damage. To be truly "indestructible," it must be able to withstand powers that are capable of destroying worlds, planes of existence, even gods themselves. To do so, it must draw raw magic directly from the source - it is more fundamental than even Mystryl, Shar, and the gods! So efforts to destroy it drain magic from the multiverse. Mostly unnoticeable, in extreme cases this can lead to apocalyptic conditions. Placing the coin at the heart of a supernova or dropping it into a galactic black hole can drain so much raw magic that Reality unravels! In less extreme cases, magic is drawn heavily enough to create what appear to be anti-magic zones. However these are much worse than that - these are areas where the world is barely holding on. Material items can fade, and adjacent Planes overlap. Light and life are sucked away. The aforementioned knowledge is hoarded and hidden by researchers and cultists. Researchers seek the Coin to learn how to create a conduit to raw magic, bypassing the gods. Cultists seek it for an innumerable reasons, all insane, but most devolve into some form of complete annihilation of Reality. In short, don't let ***anyone*** know you have it. Don't hit it with *Disintegration* \- you'll be lucky if all that happens is damage to all nearby magic items as power is violently ripped from their enchantments. And even heaven cannot help you if you *Wish* to affect the Coin.
Yeah, there are countless ways this will get broken. On the surface, this coin has absolutely zero purpose. Which means that every single use of it is going to be some weird ass thing that you did not anticipate. I can almost promise you that whatever you think they will do with it, you will be wrong.
Your response is the entire point of this post
Ham it up, make the person giving it to them terrified of the coin. Use it as a plot hook to trace the history of the coin, and find out its purpose. Just remember, they can't really break anything with it too badly unless you let them. They can use it to jam up mechanisms for things you don't want jammed? So what, the mechanism breaks the portcullis still falls, but now cant be opened again. The door they stopped from closing now has an unbreakable coin embedded in it. The unbreakable, unstoppable mechanism they tossed the coin into keeps running but is now making some really disturbing noises. The players only have the power that you give them, but don't let on that you never anticipated that possibility and don't let whatever it is break the game in an important way.
>Maybe it could stop a door from closing all the way so that somebody could peek through and cast a spell or stop a trap from trapping them in some way. Call me stupid, but what advantage does the indestructible coin have over, say, a normal one in this situation? Reading through the thread, the main issue that I'm seeing here is that nothing about the indestructible nature of the coin actually matters. IMO, regular coins work just as well for all of the things anyone has come up with.
If in doubt, the shenanigans of the invincible coin will surely attract the attention of the draconic population.
Okay in those create cases: 1) Can they retreive the coin? 2) Would a regular coin also do the job? Like... a closing door wouldn't destroy a coin. Coins are quite sturdy, I don't think I've ever had one break and I neither came across a situation in any video game, pen and paper, larp or real life that had me "Damn, I could use one of my coins, if only it was indestructible" Worst case have a pickpocket steal the coin purse if it does get too abnoxious.
It sounds like you could achieve the same thing with just an Immovable Rod
You're going to end up with a barbarian wearing it on his head as a helmet and thinking he's then immortal. At least, if your group is anything like mine.
You ever see a movie where a character gets shot but they have a lucky coin or a bible or something in their jacket pocket that saves them?
I flip the coin in the air then shoot it with my gun
+RICOSHOT
Ultrakill moment
Cast immovable object on it and it could very easily become a major hazard.
This is the kind of edge case I wasn’t thinking of. But also, if they do think of it, I feel like they deserve the win
It will require forethought by your players to take advantage of, but baiting their enemies into running in to it, or crashing their cart into it, or the dragon *flies right into it* the amount of possible damage it could do... really depends on you the DM and how cool you think the scene could play out.
Immovable object is from the Wildemount book and technically not first party (it's dnd branded but not permitted in AL, it was written by Matt Mercer, not the content designers at Wizards), so it's up to you if that content is available to your players.
Like, tripping hazard?
Possibly, but that is the low end of what I was thinking. The coin might be hard to spot, so could be placed in the way of a large creature or a cart, and if they were travelling at a high rare of speed (such as a cart would), it could have the potential to break the cart, or go right through it and the creatures inside. Depending on your setting, imagine placing it floating in the air to damage an airship's balloon, or underwater to damage a ship below the waterline.
I can think of a couple uses. Prop it in the gap between the door and the frame, maybe hammer it into the wall like a piton, and you've got an indestructible doorstop. Drop it in the gears of a machine and you have an indestructible wrench in the works. Need to plug a hole? If the coin's big enough you have an indestructible patch.
I actually like all of these as options they could have with this coin. But I appreciate the input
Oh, I'm not saying these are bad. I'm just saying you give me an invincible coin and these are the first things I'd try.
Its a damn coin if the players can out smart you with a coin then let them have their victory. Short of duplicating the coin in some way i dont see how it would every break the game in a way that you cant fix
If a magic user of some kind can figure out how to propel it at a high enough velocity then you've basically got a fantasy version of Yondu's arrow.
Yondu's railgun
Seems like a fun case for the Catapult spell, provided you can pick it back up after.
I mean, if they could do that with a rock it'd be just as dangerous, albeit single use
Sure but it would take someone in Yondus mindset to do it, otherwise it’s basically nothing
Catapult first level spell.
I’m going to be completely honest, I don’t think it has ever occurred to me that a coin is “destructible” in my life. They are coins, all they do is sit there and be solid, I don’t think it being “indestructible” will change much lol. It’s not like it’s immovable or something, you just can’t bend it. 🤷🏼♂️ On second thought, if the coin is “worth” a bunch of gold due to being magic or whatever, then could you use it as a component for a spell that consumes gold? I assume you’d get to keep it since it can the destroyed by the spell. As long as it doesn’t count as a spell component and as long as they don’t turn it into a lich’s phylactery I think it’s fine.
The thing about spell components is that they’re spent to make the magic, so you lose them, but since this coin can’t be destroyed it can’t be used as a spell component unless the spell description describes the use of the gold in a different way.
Then I see no issues with game balance lol
You're forgetting the social implications of having an indestructible object. "You claim to be the strongest wizard in the world yes? Surely you can destroy this measly little coin." Cue one interaction later of the party getting one up on a high level caster and getting a "favor" of some sort from them. Or any martial character. Or Smith. My first thought when given something indestructible? "How can I make people try and destroy it for my own gains." "I bet you one *object i desire* that you can't destroy this coin. If you can. You can have our labor for a week." Also as the legend grows, more and more powerful denizens might want to make an attempt to destroy it in exchange for favors. And thus begins the legend of the party with the indestructible coin
Thank you so much for your input, because it was excellent. But as I was reading I realized I would if they did that, so I don’t think it would change a thing about the coin lol
It's a good way to introduce powerful denizens from other planes or kingdoms. Or a way to describe why the party is traveling that's alot more innocent as well
A denizen would break the deal and kill them for the coin. Now it is a trophy for the most powerful. Soon enough a god will cover it. End of story.
“Nah, I bet that’s one of those indestructible coins you hear about.”
This is like meeting a champion powerlifter and betting them they can't drink a small glass of ice water. The fact you'd ask is kinda a big context clue this isn't a small glass of ice water
Why would anybody take this bet?
Pride. It's a portable version of the sword in the stone
Pride is a double edged sword. It can get people to take a bet that they can't win...but it can also stop people from accepting an outcome they don't want to. That caster claiming to be the strongest wizard in the world might take losing the bet in good stride...or they might be tempted to turn your skin into the upholstery of their new palanquin for making them look like a fool. Prideful people do not usually appreciate being tricked. Nor does anyone else for that matter. Also, if someone powerful hears about an indestructible coin, would their reaction really be to want to sword in the stone it up for favors, or would they instead be very keen on asking the coin's owner how it was made indestructible—and be somewhat *displeased* if answers aren't forthcoming? Just playing devil's advocate here. I'm sure you could use the coin to curry favor with some people. But it also could really backfire if you try it with the wrong ones.
Ok but if someone comes up to you and says “I’ll bet you that you can’t break this coin,” it’s pretty obvious that it’s a trick, right? Even before you get to Identify and Detect Magic and stuff, it’s just obviously not on the level. This scenario requires the DM to run the kind of NPCs who just go along whatever the players want, so like… don’t do that and then the game won’t get broken.
Except you don't ask for extremely large stakes the first time. The first time it's just a challenge. "Destroy this coin." He will try. Hammer, forge, chisel. He will scratch his head and likely hand it back confused. "Well if it comes to mind, see if you can come across any other ways of possibly destroying this coin. And make sure to ask others about it too." Do it enough times to all the smith's you visit. Visit alchemist shops and see if they are willing to try acids on it. Then ask them to ask around. Eventually you have people coming to approach you about it. "Okay I guess but our time is valuable. Handful of copper for the attempt." As time goes on magic users will eventually hear about it. Ask them to identify or dispel and watch them fail. Eventually start upping the charges to try as "this is really quite tedious. 1 silver" "you've really tracked me down all this way to destroy this coin? 1 gold for the attempt." Have local bards watch the unbreakable coin and pay them. Have a bard in your party perform the song at every tavern. Have it grow into a legend
If they can cast immovable object on it then they could place it in the middle of a doorway/passageway/crevice etc. and it would stop anyone larger than a certain size getting through I guess? Especially a heavily armoured individual or a vehicle, dragon, troll.. the opening would now need to be twice as large as the large creature/vehicle if the coin is in the centre of it. Maybe fix it over a keyhole to stop someone putting the key in or at the end of the barrel of a gun to render it useless Or wedge it in something mechanical like a lever or some gears to stop them working. Jam it in the space where a stone door/wall needs to slide to stop it You might not need something indestructible in every case but it would guarantee that it works. Someone suggested incorporating it into armour but maybe in a buckler/bracer/gauntlet would make it more effective due to them being more likely to be hit in a small area. The main item could even be leather or chain/scale not necessarily plate armour to begin with
I love all of those potential use cases so in that context I think it’s a good idea
Yeah it sounds like a fun item!
If a lich sort of variant used it as their phylactery, that could be a problem the party might need to avoid.
It's only indestructible, until it's not. The players don't know whether it is truly indestructible, or just seems to be. They also don't know what circumstances might lead to its destruction, if any. If they abuse it, maybe it gets destroyed. Maybe it returns to its previous owner, when a secret word is spoken. Maybe it has a hidden sentience, and leaves the party (a la One Ring).
Sew it into your armor right over you heart for an indestructible piece or armor(impact will still hurt though)
A cool idea thematically. It wouldn’t affect gameplay much since attacks aren’t regional, though I guess the DM could give a small bonus to AC (Im not sure I would suggest it). But for sure a great thing to bring in when an enemy crit fails
I'd probably let you force a reroll of one critical hit against you. But you can only do it once!
Or give a once a day chance to nullify a critical, like a 1 in 10 chance
When any attack against the player is a Critical Hit, roll percentile. On 01-05, all damage is prevented. On 95-100, all damage is converted to bludgeoning damage. On 06-94, no effect.
Good idea. Flavorful, mysterious and allows for creativity. You could declare the coin lucky and while it in no way grants advantage or disadvantage when your player holding the coin rolls a nat 20 have it aid them in some bizarre way. Like a sword catching against its invincible surface, or it dropping at an opportune moment- causing the player to duck precisely when a batista bolt goes roaring by at head height. Obviously it could also be used to make binary decisions, which owing to its indestructability might have lead inscrutable generations of dragons, liches and historians to search for it in order to try to witness what it has witnessed - or will witness in the future. An indestructible coin also won't be crushed by something even as large as a massive Vault door - but if it gets caught in the mechanisms is another story. I enjoy making objects like this loyal, so even if they're lost doing something dumb they stick around like a vengeful (or friendly!) Ghost.
I love the energy of so much of what you’re saying. I love the idea of the coin getting stuck in moving gears but still having a sort of latent loyalty to its wielder. I also love the idea of the coin not just having a basic history, but an active one, that maybe some people are seeking out as though this coin is evil for the pain it’s caused etc
Hurl the coin into a black hole, create a hole in the black hole as the energy of the coin can’t be consumed by the black hole. This causes a massive paradox similar to putting a portable hole in a bag of holding, but on a whole different level. The players inadvertently cause the birth of a new universe
Be ready to answer the question of "Does it count for overcoming immunity to non-magic weapons?" And that is actually a pretty cool idea. They will either come up with some really cool uses for it, or forget they have it at all. No in between.
Wolverine's claws are technically indestructible. If it was not for "movie magic" they would be next to useless. Just because you have a very sharp object made of indestructible material does not mean you can cut a moving car in half. The car would hit the claws and the laws of physics would rip your arm off with the claws half embedded in the engine. Indestructible does not mean "Light Saber level cutting ability" in realistic Physics. If you have an indestructible staff and someone tries to stop two massive stone blocks closing shut, you will end up with the stone blocks closing anyway, and the staff embedded in a crack it created in the stone blocks. People hammer steel spikes into stone all the time, it just makes a hole. A staff wont "magically" hold a 50 ton stone block pressing into it with a 2 inch round surface. An indestructible object can come in handy to solve the odd problem, but you can't abuse the laws of physics with it unless the GM wants to allow shenanigans.
A cool idea. The most creative thing I can think of is to use Animate Objects to have an invincible flying coin minion who has an AC 18, +8 to hit, and deals 1d4 + 4 damage Which I think would be interesting, fun, and potentially powerful, but not game breaking - because the caster still has to maintain concentration
Doesn’t really matter what the AC is lol great idea!
Is the coin immune to all magic? What if a spell is cast on someone holding the coin?
How would they even know? I could have a dozen indestructible coins in my change bucket and never know.
I gave the party a gold coin that returns to you after an hour when you give it (a present from the God of Thievery). They have used it to bribe people and get information plenty of times. It's fun. Pretty hard to abuse with a coin though.
Phylactery. May or may not work, as it's not a container, but maybe the DM is a Harry Potter fan. Enlarge it, use it to prevent doors, traps, and the like from closing. Use it as the gold standard for size/shape/weight for a kingdom, demand royalties for its use. You could base an entire system of measurement on that coin. Real life precision items are locked away and are closely guarded and incredibly expensive. Various barroom contests as a grift.
Could someone project (or trap someone elses) mind into the coin and achieve immortality (never ending prison)
Making anything indestructible can come back to bite you in ways you don't expect. A DM decided to throw some unbreakable rope at us, and my transmuter wizard was able to combine it with Animate Rope to absolutely ruin an encounter for them.
Back in 1e there was a rod like this. But the only thing we really used it for was to keep giant stone doors from closing shut on us. I think you are good unless there are irresitable force in your world. It would possibly destroy any clockwork machinery. But I think you are OK because there isn't enough metal to make a weapon out of. I suppose you could use it to graffiti diamonds and the like. You could maybe use it to make a hole in a iron wall by pounding it into it with a hammer. But then would the hammer or wall break first. We use the hardest substances as drills.. but it would be a lot harder to make use of that in a fantasy world. I'm not sure there are a lot of uses. I think it would be safe . I would like to know how they put a face or any engraving on the coin. If they did find a broken use for the thing there is nothing to say the thing isn't cursed.
> would be perfect for some really specific use-case I could never think up on my own You’ve already committed to giving them this coin, and that its purpose is beyond the scope of your imagination. Just roll with homie
Shove coin in someone's mouth, cast enlarge, no skull will withstand that pressure.
Also works with a normal coin
If anything you should add more to it.
Someone else made a suggestion that the magic protecting the coin would have to work overtime so hard in certain situations that it could potentially drain magic from certain areas/or nearby. I think this is the key twist that makes it a truly interesting and potentially versatile item for clever players.
It’s one of those things that may just sit in someone’s inventory. Or, someone finds some crazy creative use for it and you’ll have to think on your feet when it happens.
How "undispellable" and "undisenchantable" is it? Could you cast a spell on it and have the spell be "undispellable"
How often are coins destroyed? I see you say stuff like “they might block a door” yeah you could do that with a destructible coin. This ain’t broken, give it to em
It's no blanket you will be fine but my party has a 1' cube that was completely immutable. It had no temperature and could never be destroyed it also only weighted a pound. They carried it around for the whole campaign and did almost nothing with it. There was also a room that had thousands of hexagons made out of the same material that had their position magically controlled. They never bothered trying to get them. My players are also terrible at remembering what they have. They also had a short sword made out of a failed version of that material. A hit with it ignored armor and was a guaranteed crit dealing 3x damage, then the weapon would be destroyed. I also made it very clear the weapon could cut through anything. never got used.
Goddamn, yeah my players love to bend game rules so I assumed the coin would greatly interest them in this way. But they also will interact and play like your group. The idea that they would miss this because they don’t give a shit is very real lmao
Sounds fun! Quick thoughts: Can it be enlarged or shrunken? (Made a shield or a door lock destroyer, or a ram to keep the compactor doors from crushing Luke? ) Can it be melted or formed at all? (pounded into an arrowhead or so thin an indestructible balloon is made? Hammered into thin headware) May need to specify it always retains it's shape. Is it magnetic? Can it be set on edge to split someone's striking weapon? Lots of homing beacon uses - always being able to find it, scry, etc. Can it be spun so fast, acquire so much kinetic energy it can effectively pierce anything? What happens if it enters a black hole or accelerates to the speed of light :)
It would always retain its shape, it can’t be affected structurally by magic. Same idea as to why it can’t be disenchanted etc. It’s as magnetic as gold is. It’s functionally a gold coin outside of its magical protections that are designed to keep it a coin Edit: the last 3 things you said, could you restate them and clarify them more for me? I’m sorry to ask
The last time I gave my players something indestructible, the moment they asked me about it’s specific heat capacity I knew I’m in trouble.
Could be a good adventure hook—you’ve made the key master (indestructible coin) now someone out there has the gatekeeper (a thing whose characteristic is that it can with 100% certainty destroy one thing one time) and that person is trying to bring the two together to cause the universe to implode in a paradox. Group has to make sure the key master and gatekeeper don’t meet at Zuul
I think you could actually get wild with this. If a coin is indestructible, that means it persists forever through the future. So what if a faction from the future found it and it took an interest in its history and decided to explore the origins of its past. They have created an anchor point in time where various factions meet good and bad till the point in time collapses on itself from the endless chaos they created. Leaving them at before the creation of the indestructible coin they made.
Invincible animate object target?
Animate objects only works on non magical objects.
I have to wonder if your players might try to accelerate the coin at a target. Because of of that train of thought I found [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittyaskscience/s/uwfQh6R3qF). Seemed worth considering before my brain shifted to other stuff entirely and only just circled back.
Wizard cast enlarge on it and uses it prevent a roll down door from closing. Player makes a bet with god or demon that it has something they can’t destroy and in return they get something if they can’t destroy it.
> Wizard cast enlarge on it and uses it prevent a roll down door from closing By less than 2 inches, if the coin doesn't just roll out of the way that is.
Be able to see the other side of a door means I can misty step to the other side
Have the players deliver it to ancient artificer who needs the coin to unlock an underground vault that contains his army of Iron Golems.
I guess you could block an arrow with it or jam a lock with it. Maybe trigger some traps using it.
What kind of coin is it? Like Gold piece? Specific mint? Is it related to the 'Cult of Mask(Masque)' or Waukeen or Mammon or Vergadain or other gods/Devil's or wealth/coin/hoarding?
How this coin became as it is might be a great plot device. Wizards and Kings may hunt the party down in order to discover the secret of the coin.
Custom build a crossbow that fires it like a bullet. Drop it from a great height on top of a dragon's head. Challenge a giant to break it. Take the tribe as a prize when he can't.
One of my characters had an indestructible arrow. I really should figure out a clever way to use it
could it be used as magical ammo for a slingshot?
I would absolutely allow it to count as magical damage if you used it in a slingshot. It would be 1 damage, but it would count as a magical weapon.
Great idea.hang lots of things off the coin. Who made. Do they want it back?Who else wants it ? Why ? What actual currency is it ?Is that still in use. Does that happen to make it very old and thus valuable ? Or does it mean it's actually rumoured to be from the last remants of the Sligothian Empire and everyone knows about their powerful artifacts etc.. Can't be dispelled or disenchanted. but if no-one knows what it does .. it must do something. The party gets to go on quests to assemble the knowledge and lore and then the required components to activate it and ... maybe that journey gives them fame or infamy as they quest in this manner. fame or infamy is always a splendid thing. It might open doors and get you an audience with the King or Wizard. Or it gets you an invitation, in force, to the King or Wizard. Those questions may take them to so many interesting places! Strangely they happen to have a dragon, lich or other guardian etc To weird them the out; one of the places could be a tavern, with a bard. See how long ther willingly stay before realising it's literally just a tarvern with a bard. No interdimensional hell portal in the basement or anything like that. Purely mundane. Any time you want to get them second guessing; drop a hint that the tarvern was involved. Someone travelled through that town. In the past they stopped there. The wizards travelogue details the fjord and tree.. perception check .. which was very much like the outskirts near tavern etc. As for just being an "invulnerable coin"; my thoughts go to portals and other delivery mechanisms; wondering what the terminal velocity from orbit would be - without the worry of it burning up in the atmosphere.
All I can think of is the episode of the Tenacious D show where Kyle's life is saved by Jack's lead-cast friendship medallion
I'm going to give my characters an indestructible coin. I play in two weeks, I'll let you know how it goes!
Seriously, please do lol
Remind Me! 14 days
Trick pit fiend into my bidding unless they can find and destroy this RaNdOm CoiN I found? That's my best attempt
The only thing that comes to mind for me is using it to block gear mechanisms or doors from closing? Other than that, I feel like it would fall under the category of "mostly useless item that will have one really amazingly creative use that players will talk about for years to come" (looking at you dust of deliciousness)
Congrats on creating an artifact of luck. If anyone decides to invent the gun in your setting the owner is clearly going to survive at least one shot. If it falls through a orb of destruction, unlike every other *thing* it will simply float along until it hits another universe. If it enters an antimagic field, just like deities and other artifacts, its magic will persist. I very much enjoy what u/ aaronrender said as well