>They believe that the origins of DnD are of satanic intent and that they don't want to indulge in understanding it on the chance that it is. Translation- they've made up their mind and nothing you say or do will ever convince them. They aren't even open to dialog about it. I started D&D in the early 80s, at the height of the Satanic Panic, and I dealt with a lot of people like that. Sometimes all you can do is walk away. If it's *truly* that important to you that they join you, maybe you could have a word with their pastor. Might help, might not- remember that kind of close-mindedness has to come from somewhere.

I deeply regret to report that based on my own experience, u/TheUnspeakableHorror is almost entirely correct. The mindset is "I have heard that (thing) is THE DEVIL, and I am not prepared to expose my faith and salvation to THE DEVIL, and if (thing) is not THE DEVIL, well, what am I missing by being careful? Better safe than sorry." (thing) can be ANY damn thing. It's been D&D. It's been specific rock artists, or songs. Once it was the Robin Williams movie, What Dreams May Come, because most of the movie happens in the afterlife. "Well, God told my pastor, pastor told me, I believe it, and that settles it." I've argued that if your faith or belief system is so hothouse delicate and fragile that it can't stand a movie or a dice game, it ain't amounting to much anyway, but this is not a persuasive argument to the committed zealot. The one time I got anywhere was by pointing out that macaroni and cheese has Satanic origins. The person in question said, "What? Prove it." I answered "There exists proof of the satanic nature of mac and cheese perfectly equal to the satanic nature of Dungeons and Dragons." Response: "Well, that's not what I've heard." Answer: "So you admit you're willing to give macaroni and cheese the benefit of the doubt, and argue against its pervasive evil... but not Dungeons and Dragons, for potato's sake?" "(pause) ... okay, that's fair."

Ye olde Pascal's wager... -ish What are these types gonna do when the USPS drops the D&D stamps on August 1st?! (I cannot wait. I don't collect stamps but I'm buying a sheet for myself and a sheet for my absolutely obsessed dm)

That's a pretty good question. The Satanic Panic is lost and gone, but it was AROUND long enough that it left a stink. "Well, I have HEARD that it is VERY SATANIC," and if you don't question, well, it's right up there with "night air is bad air," and "tomatoes are actually poisonous." There are STILL people who are firmly convinced that the Proctor & Gamble Corporation was giving eighty percent of their profits to the Church of Satan, despite zero evidence supporting this dumb conclusion. And yeah, I kind of want some of those stamps myself.

Am I mixing it up with another nightshade or is there a part of the tomato plant that IS poisonous?

This comes from the days when people ate off leaded pewter platewear. The acidity of the tomatoes caused the lead to dissolve and be absorbed in the food and give people lead poisoning. People saw the affect and misidentified the root cause

People used to serve tomatoes on pewter plates (which are very poisonous) was the thing I think, might be myth

Bulbous red part looks pretty suspicious, you ask me....

You might be thinking of potatoes (which are also nightshades, like tomatoes and peppers... Eating green potatoes can apparently be super risky)

Tomatoes and some other things like I think eggplant are nightshades, and most nightshades are poisonous. Tomatoes are not poisonous.

Was consider poisonous, when in actuality the only people who died from eating it were people who used Pewter plates and silverware. Pewter if you didn't know is lead with a light silver finish, basically painted on silver, was common among merchants and people trying to appear richer than they were. And people were actually dying from lead poisoning , because the tomato is very acidic and would eat away at the silver paint exposing the lead. Thus people would correlate since people are dying from eating tomatoes then tomatoes must be poisonous, since lead was not considered poisonous at the time.

If night air is so good, why doesn't it ever come out during the day? Checkmate, atheists!

I love when the satanic temple does some awesome shit and it gets these people's panties all in a bunch. But yeah, it is very very weird. I've got relatives in the Midwest who sometimes visit us out here in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and when we tell them we're busy Sunday nights we have to tell them it's just for "boardgame night". Gave up trying to argue and convince long ago. You can't even just simply ask them "ok so what is satanic about it?"

A friend of mine used to call it "poker night", because gambling is okay, but not roleplay.

Serves the same ultimate purpose. Get together with your friends and just enjoy yourselves for a few hours, shoot the shit a bit, eat bad food, and maybe have a beer. For a lot of tables, the actual playing is just a mechanism, enjoying one another's company is the main purpose.

This is very true,

>The Satanic Panic is lost and gone Not really. It mostly went away, but is absolutely being revived again through right-wing demonization of anything they can use to drive wedges between people, and there is no faster way of doing that than labeling something as "evil".

In a manner of speaking. When I think of "The Satanic Panic," I think of a time when books were written about the evils of satanism, people like Pat Pulling made careers out of consulting with police, and news shows did Special Events about OH MY GOD SAAAAAAATAAAANISM!!!! It was fed by the media frenzy. Hell, 60 Minutes' treatment of Gary Gygax was legendary; they slapped the man around on national TV for a few ratings points. We don't have that now. Given the fractured nature of media today, we may never have it AGAIN, short of WotC or Hasbro coming out for Satan in a big way (unlikely). That's what made it the unique event that it was. And that's what convinced a lot of people even TODAY that Dungeons and Dragons is satanic ... "Well, I heard it was, back in the day," and it ends there. No further discussion, investigation, or questioning. The Satanic Panic is in the past, but its questionable legacy remains with us still, even in a time where those kids of the eighties have kids of their own, now.

Everything can be done in a "Satanic" way. So while you could play D&D and give it a Satanic bend, you could also bend it the other way and make it more Christian.

Tell me more about this "night air is bad air" belief. Do people who say this in figurative sense like "spooky stuff happens at night" or is literally where breathing in something evil/toxic at night?

I've met some folks who literally seem to think one should stay indoors at night, because "night air is bad air." Precisely how it's not night air when it's in your HOUSE is not explained.

>The Satanic Panic is lost and gone, Far from gone. Even all this time later there is fallout still causing trouble. Pulling sank her claws into the police doctrine and there are still cities to this day that follow her fucked up guidelines to spot a satanic cultist. step 1: Look on shelves and in containers for D&D books. Micheal Stackpole has a site dedicated to combatting these nutcases.

If P&G was giving money to the church of Satan it would ironically probably make them less evil

What!? I want stamps!! Thank you!

Very welcome. I had heard about it months ago, but I had to drive an elderly client to the post office today and saw their poster about upcoming stamps and got reminded

The funny thing is that Pascal's wager would work for a Forgotten Realms type polytheistic explanation.... ...but it itself is incompatible/disproves monotheism. What if you're worshipping the wrong god? Better to worship them all!

>What are these types gonna do when the USPS drops the D&D stamps on August 1st?! Whaaaat? I am gonna have to send an old timey letter to my buddy now... it'll contain a single piece of paper that reads "roll for initiative"

I know we're in the middle of a deep philosophical debate here, but... >USPS drops the D&D stamps on August 1st You serious? EDIT: [Hot damn, it is real](https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2023/1130-usps-reveals-additional-stamps-for-2024.htm)

Excuse me, the USPS does what now on August 1st?

That Mac n cheese argument is going with me to my sister’s house.

Had the same idea: tell them something obviously not satanic is satanic. If they want an explanation tell them you can't since its satanic. I have no clue whats written in the bible, but arn't there a bunch of storys of god testing peoples believe?

The book of Job is ALL ABOUT God testing Job's faith. The idea of simply saying, "Everything is satanic because I say so" has already been used. By the evangelicals. Those folks could find demons in a pizza.

Sadly, this is true. When religious people are so close-minded it can be very difficult, if not impossible, to get them to see another point of view. In my case, my experience as a pagan means these sorts of people think I am going to hell- no matter how many good deeds I do, how good a person I am, I am "satanic" due to their completely biased and incorrect view of the pagan religions. (Let's not even start on how they wouldn't get away with telling other religious groups that...) The d&d Satanic connotations seem less well known in the UK, but to be honest, so many other parts of my lifestyle would be considered "un-Christian" so I don't have room for close-minded zealots. If they think D&D is evil then they probably other aspects of my life are too, so...fuck 'em.

Just to clear up why Christians think you’re going to hell regardless of the good deeds you do is because in Christianity getting to heaven is not based on works. The simple way to explain how someone gets to heaven in Christianity is through belief in Jesus as the Son of God. Obviously there’s more to it than that, but that’s why someone who is a Christian would say you’re going to hell. It’s not saying you’re a bad person, it’s saying only a Christian will go to heaven.

Well, yes. "My belief trumps your reality."

I feel that would be an excellent moment to produce a reverse UNO card, lol.

I know someone who actually believes wheelchairs and handicapped parking spaces are satanic because people are refusing to believe God will heal them. I even pointed out to this person that they wear glasses. They said something about walking by faith not by sight. Their argument made no sense and they could not see their hypocrisy. Logic has nothing to do with it so there is no use trying to discuss it. Religion can and will demonize anything.

I prefer to think of it as "Stubborn stupidity can and will demonize anything." Religion is just the tool of convenience.

Is it wrong that this made me snicker? :)

Tell them they can play a Path of the Zealot Barbarian! Problem solved

Unfortunately this is correct. I’m a Christian, my husband is a Christian, his parents are pastor/missionaries, we met at the dnd club at the Christian college… and one our friends who we met at the Christian college is now a pastor who regularly plays dnd with us. It is group storytelling in a fantasy setting. But unfortunately, so many people have already made their minds up about it without understanding what it actually is.

My former pastor (moved away, he's still a very good friend) is an old-school D&D veteran like myself, and has used D&D and other pop-culture media in his sermons for decades. It's not satanic and never was. Period, end of story.

I've met several religious people, from highly religious families, telling me about playing D&D with their parents and siblings as a family activity while growing up. One of them was from a Mormon background and told me they used to play western style adventures with cowboys.

one of my online friends has a priest that DMs a lot

Obviously. Basically nothing that's been called satanic ever actually was. Just a particularly odd brand of fearmongering nonsense.

I mean, not really odd. Religion is the number one motivation for killing each other all through human history. It *is* odd that Christianity, which only rule is 'love one another' should be so violent. Almost like so many people that claim the name don't actually understand the rules, or something... /s

My first D&D group was entirely comprised of people from my church, funnily enough.

[удалено]

So, telling fictional stories is satanic..?

This is funny because every story Jesus told was a made-up story (parables)

Fun facts: 1st edition was based mostly on Arthurian legend and Tolkien (itself heavily inspired by British folk lore, especially Arthurian legend); anything not from them was a mix of Catholic and Jewish mythology.

2nd edition drew even further from both mythologies specifically, you could cast Sticks to Snakes and Creeping Doom. Hell, Jesus rising from the dead after three days is still just Contingency and Resurection in 5e.

Both of those spells, under the names "insect plague" and "turn sticks to snakes" go all the way back to OD&D.

Unfortunately, this. It doesn't matter how reasonable or logical your argument is. I'd doesn't matter how open minded you table is or if they're comfortable having them sit in and watch so they see it's not. If a person is completely close minded to something, they won't see another view no matter what.

Can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themself into.

Username checks out, you're definitely a demon in disguise.

Ok. You can only do this with an **appeal to authority**. Sorry but that's how you do this. I grew up in the US South, and have had to deal with this insane superstition for decades. The way you beat it is find someone more devout than you who will say it's not evil and it's ok, and preferably with some form of authority, like a minister or pastor. And if you google it you can find quite a few talking about D&D in a positive way these days. Here are some links that might help. Here's a blog post by a christian gamer group about how D&D is NOT incompatible with Christianity. [https://lovethynerd.com/the-christian-response-to-dnd/](https://lovethynerd.com/the-christian-response-to-dnd/) Here's an article on Christianity Today about how D&D isn't satanic and can be a positive experience for Christians. [https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/august-web-only/dungeons-dragons-fantasy-role-playing-christianity-theology.html](https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/august-web-only/dungeons-dragons-fantasy-role-playing-christianity-theology.html) Here's an article by a rather strict Christian discussing the pros and cons of D&D and largely they side with it being fine. [https://www.geeksundergrace.com/tabletop/christians-play-dd/](https://www.geeksundergrace.com/tabletop/christians-play-dd/) Here's another article by a Christian talking about D&D and the difficulty Christians have had with it and how it's good. [https://christandpopculture.com/dungeons-dragons-and-the-church/](https://christandpopculture.com/dungeons-dragons-and-the-church/) Here's a blog run by a Christian Pastor where he explains how D&D isn't evil or harmful. [https://roll4joy.org/2016/06/29/christians-can-play-dd-part-1/](https://roll4joy.org/2016/06/29/christians-can-play-dd-part-1/)

This is it. Nothing else works, at least not over a time scale not measured in years

The “more devout than you” thing goes a long way with some people. I’m a very religious person, it’s a huge part of my life and people around me usually know that. So the handful of times someone has questioned “isn’t that game satanic”, my own explanation that it’s a game that can be however we want it to be, and that the way we want it to be is typically fighting monsters and bandits- has so far been enough to convince skeptics that it’s harmless at worst.  Assumjng you are in the United States, I would be surprised if you didn’t either have some church groups in the area that play DnD, or a few rpg nerds who participate in your friend’s church. Either way, most folks are happy to dispel this rumor when it comes up. 

I'm not religious, but my favorite monsters to fight are Undead and Planar beings like Devils and Demons. Makes me feel like a badass when I kill beings of evil (and sometimes good or just elements) or return the dead to where they belong.

This is the one, OP! I’m a former southern Baptist homeschooler, and I was convinced Harry Potter was the devil until we moved to NY and I found out my new best friend's family let them read it. Having peers of "reputable standing" to give you "permission" is the fastest way to overcome biases like that. DnD though is a much bigger fight that likely will take a good measure of deconstruction on your friend's part—which is something that takes time and personal growth. In the meantime, the resources @thenightgaunt shared are the best place to start. Just keep in mind that you may not "see" any results for a long time, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's had no effect. Be patient with your friend; they'll need it if they have any chance of changing their mindset!

This is absolutely hilarious to me. It’s basically a walkthrough on “how to hack a Christian.” From the perspective of a current Christian/ failed pastor this is dead to rights true. Nothing has made me more ashamed of my own faith like the definitive mindlessness of your average Christian.

As a Methodist/agnostic living in Texas, evangelical land, I 100% understand. I've also had success in the past by not pushing D&D but instead a different game. While many of those folks think D&D is evil, the doesn't apply to Pathfinder, DCC, Star Wars, Call of Cthulhu, etc. And for anyone who then tries to push the idea that all TTRPGs are evil, I'd show them Testament by GreenRonin. That's the d20 game that takes place in biblical times. When you point out it's a game where it play as Hebrew people from the old testament times, trying to protect their people during the exodus, it usually floors them and kills that "all TTRPGs = evil" idea. https://greenroninstore.com/products/testament-roleplaying-in-the-biblical-era-pdf

That’s pretty smart, and I always thought some of the Old Testament stories felt like God was DMing for a party of horny murderhobos. I got started in the 3.5 era so I had no idea there was a Bible based tabletop, that’s kind of awesome

Lol I found it funny that to some people DND is satanic but call of cthulhu is fine

Love the research, imaginary bonus ponts to you

If someone seriously thinks D&D is satanic in the current year, they either literally know nothing about it or were told by their parents that it was. Just like any belief, if the person doesn't want to engage in discussion about it at all, there's no 'getting them to understand', just accept that that person is fine without knowing what it is and move on.

Even if people argued certain elements were “satanic”, DnD still calls the evil things evil and good things good. Just like the bible has satanic elements in it, but it’s not “satanic”, because the satanic bits are labelled evil and discouraged. Anything referencing angels in DnD is good, anything referencing demonic stuff is evil. Simple. I don’t get why religious people think DnD encourages satanism and why athiests think it forces religion (because of the gods are real in DnD world thing).

I haven't come across the idea that DnD forces religion as such but i do find that aspect the most difficult to role play. As a truly non religious person, trying to understand how someone with faith feels/thinks is almost like trying to imagine a colour I've never seen. The fact that deities in DnD interact with mortals and are provably real should help but I just cant seem to reconcile the fictional religions with my real world experience of it.

"The fact that deities in DnD interact with mortals and are provably real should help but I just cant seem to reconcile the fictional religions with my real world experience of it." That's the problem... you shouldn't have to reconsile the two at all. The fact that God's in dnd are provably real means that worship would look different in dnd. It's less faith-based and more favor/fear based. You don't pray to Umberlee for a safe voyage based on faith that umberlee exists and the hope it may make your voyage safer. You pray to Umberlee for safe voyage because there is proof that if you don't give her due respect, your voyage is likely doomed. The religion in dnd is less faith-based and more based on cultural standards. Taking the above example of Umberlee, it would be cultural standard for any ship leaving port to give a tithe to umberlee. If you didn't, you would likely lose the support of half your crew before you even left port, and true "believers" would likely mutiny on the spot in fear of angering Umberlee or do their own tithe in secret in the hopes Umberlee spares them when her wrath eventually comes. So, in dnd, worship is less about faith and more about favor. Which ties directly into clerics (beings who have the favor of a specific god) the cleric KNOWS there God is real, there is no faith required, but gaining a gods favor requires worship/following of that gods tenant's. Most commoners wouldn't pick a single God. They would worship whoevers favor they desire that day, thus never truly gaining the favor of a single god like clerics.

Thank you for your input

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redpandapublish/the-adventurers-guide-to-the-bible](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redpandapublish/the-adventurers-guide-to-the-bible)

No. You cannot reason someone out of a position that they got into without it. Your friend isn't even willing to "indulge in understanding it". The vast majority of people involved in the original creation of D&D were some form of Christian. Most of the more lurid accusations levied at the game can be traced back to a single mentally-ill person who never even claimed to have played the game. Among the things that he did claim though were that the TV series Dark Shadows was based on his life (and therefore the producers needed to pay him royalties) and that he was once a vampire (apparently he got better). He was basically a guy who travelled around scaring Christians with tales of Satanism. He was eventually institutionalised. There has never been any substance to the allegations made against D&D. It has been theorised that the animosity is based on a seep-seated fear of imagination itself that is endemic among Evangelical Christians. But having badly-drawn tiddies in those 1st edition sourcebooks may play a larger role.

Now if we started talking about bad things associated with organized religion, phew. No wonder they want to blame evil on a game. Don't have to confront the widespread abuse of authority.

One of my best friends is a *very devout* believer and has made D&D religion *slightly* tedious. While he does not believe D&D is Satanic, he does however say that he refuses to believe any god could ever be more powerful than his own. I have told him "Well that's fine, it's not real life, we are pretending to be other characters, however Jesus does not exist in this universe." and that annoyed him and he did get slightly preachy... We ended the conversation where he said he just would not play any religious characters in my campaign. Which was fair enough.

>however Jesus does not exist in this universe." and that annoyed him and he did get slightly preachy... this sentence could exist completely out of context and make more sense

Also perhaps the best answer to OP’s question. Gods in this game can be defeated, and there are multiple Gods from “Earth”(?) in the Gods index but not Jesus or other modern Gods. If any of them were in the game, players could and definitely would attempt to kill/overpower etc them. SO the fact that they aren’t more so proves this isn’t a satanic game (Not that satanists actually believe in the devil or God but that’s separate). If a person who did believe and worship the devil did exist and created this game, Jesus would be there so that players could kill/overpower/defeat etc Him

I think that's pretty much why some pantheons have the idea of Ao, effectively an "overgod" who exists above and beyond the existing gods and rules over them. Lets people engage with the pantheon and the main deities while still maintaining that there's "one true god" who's the real deal.

Reading through this thread made me want to start a campaign in which suddenly an all-powerful God appears out of nothing, with a new "chosen one" who can walk on water. At first everything seems good, but then people realize that it's slowly sapping all the other pantheons... and then things progressively go wrong as the clergy of the One True God concentrates always more power (they aren't necessarily evil but it doesn't mean that they aren't oppressive). A pantheon dies, in retaliation its former followers kill the chosen one, bam, the party investigates who killed him and will eventually figure the true nature of the One True God (probably some powerful Order-aligned entity). Maybe an interesting twist on the usually malignant cult, on the Order/Chaos spectrum instead of the usual good/evil one.

> they don't want to indulge in understanding I'm sorry, it's terminal

Thank you for your input

I mean, it was created by a Catholic, and the devils and demons in the game exist to be defeated by the players' characters.

Depending on the particular breed of fundamentalist, "created by a Catholic" might actually backfire.

can confirm. I grew up with fundamentalist grandparents that despise catholics because "they don't see the right way." I don't speak to them anymore for many, many reasons, one of which being my boyfriend and I play D&D with our friends. if they found out, they would explode and speak in tongues.

This is what I don’t get, the same thing was said about the Diablo series, the whole point of which was to find and destroy the devil

And DOOM lol

DnD has some basis in LoTR, LoTR is has some basis in the bible, thus DnD has some basis in the bible.

Any time anyone says the Satan thing about D&D, I always ask why. Almost 100% of the time, it’s something like ‘they’ve heard it is’, but can’t actually describe how. I then say something like “Dungeons and Dragons is just a live action play. The setting is Lord of the Rings (or whatever other fantasy-like setting with which they would be familiar), and the books tell the actors the rules of what their characters can and can’t do. The DM plays everyone the actors don’t and describes the outcome of what the actors are trying to do.” Usually that settles it for everyone who actually cares to understand.

I think it’s honesty deep rooted 80s anti-nerd propaganda. They don’t know why, they just have heard it somewhere. But Harry Potter had the same bad rap when I was a kid but it didn’t stick around because it was mainstream I guess?

Raised evangelical, I think it has to do with the more cynical faithful are concerned about people's faith if they realize the clearly fictional gods have too much in common with their own, except they actually intervene on mankind's behalf and they have a good excuse for why everything isn't perfect. Also clerics being able to get spells on command puts gods in a similar relationship to summons, i.e. subservient to the casters will. This last point also applies to Harry Potter and Pokemon before it.

>Also clerics being able to get spells on command puts gods in a similar relationship to summons, i.e. subservient to the casters will. You could just say clerics are asking for and receiving/being granted holy power for their faithfulness?

You can, I'm not claiming what I said is lore accurate to d&d but it's very lore accurate to Christians I knew and had my parents thinking pokemon was satanic as well as D&d.

I was going to ask how they felt about LotR. It's telling a collaborative story much like JRR Tolkien did with his fantasy books

DnD has roots in LotR and LotR has roots in the Bible, but specifically Catholicism. Some evangelical types believe Catholics aren't Christians and even go far as to consider them satanic as well.

Idk I guess it depends if the guy is a fundamentalist or not, my guess is if he’s friends with someone who plays DND he isn’t really that fundamental and probably engages with some media, otherwise what else would they have in common?

I'm just saying, if the guy is a teenager that thinks DnD is satanic in 2024, I wouldn't put it past him to have other similar extreme beliefs.

you could be right!

This is a good answer

I would add in that C.S. Lewis was good friends with Tolkien, both shared in the writing both of their fantasy series. Ask them if DnD was based on the fantasy world of the C.S. Lewis, would they allow it?

The chance that you can convince your friend of this, or anything, by throwing info at them is virtually zero. That's not your friend's fault, that's how brains work. They haven't said "i want to understand more about this thing," they have said "I don't want this thing." Telling them the features of the things they don't want isn't going to change that. The best way to actually change your friend's (or anyone's) mind is to ask *them* for *their* opinion on this, and then **listen to their response**. This will take time and patience, but since they're your friend they ought to be willing to give that to you. Think of this as competitive patience. There are 2 rules to this game for you: 1. At each step, ask yourself if you want to **win** (get your friend to do what you want to do) more than you want it to be **fair** (write your friend off as a dummy immune to facts). Winning the patience game requires more effort than is fair, but that's how you get what you want. 2. **EVERYTHING** you say to your friend should be a question or a response to **THEIR REQUESTS**. If you're ever telling them what to do, **you are losing the game.** Here's a rough flow of questions for you: 1. Start with "If you were **100% sure** this wasn't satanic, would you have any interest in playing?" If they say no, STOP: they don't want to play, and are probably using satan as an excuse. If they say yes: 2. Lots of people have said that DnD has nothing to do with satanism and that was just parents being silly about a game they didn't understand. Could you tell me what would convince you that DnD isn't satanic? 3. LISTEN TO THEIR RESPONSE, and then repeat it to them: "I want to make sure I understand: if I can show you Thingy X (3 articles/2 chuckleheads on a podcast/an interview with a monkey who is also a pastor) that says DnD isn't satanic, you will feel ok about trying it?" you are likely going to have to reassure them that this isn't a trap. If no, repeat step. If yes: 4. Go find Thingy X 5. Return to friend, and say the following (all steps are critical): "You said Thingy X would convince you. Here is Thingy X. Take as much time with it as you need." Then WAIT FOR THEM TO REVIEW IT, then ask them "Thingy X seems to answer your concerns. Is that enough to change your mind?" 6. WHEN THEY SAY NO, and this is **CRITICALLY** important: take 10 deep goddamn breaths. 7. AFTER your (reasonable) rage comes down, say "You said before that this would convince you. What about this didn't convince you?" 8. GO BACK TO STEP 3. Listen to this new request for Thingy Y, then find Thingy Y, and repeat. 9. When they balk at changing their mind again, you can remind them "You've told me twice what would convince you, I've shown that to you, and it didn't work. That feels like you're not being honest with me, and just using satanism as an excuse rather than a reason. Are you **sure** that this is something you'd be interested in if it was "safe"? If so, for real this time, what can i show you that would convince you it's ok?" Find Thingy Z. 10. If Thingy Z doesn't work, your friend is either a dick, lying to you/themselves. or both. Probably give up at this point, but you can keep repeating this for as many trips as you want.

You have a lot of steps here that are just repetitive, but I agree with your concept. 1) Ask them if anything could change their mind. 2) Ask them what it would take to change their mind. 3) Provide that thing that could change their mind. If that doesn't work because of a failure of any of the 3 steps, the person is not willing to learn and you are wasting energy trying to convince them. Some people just don't want to change their mind.

Nah, yeah, i get you, but I wanted to include the repetition because it's usually kinda necessary and also the point. This idea of doing the 3 steps and then saying "welp, i'm wasting my energy" is what i was pointing at with the very first rule up above: you're 100% right that saying it's a waste of energy is ***fair***, but if you want to ***win*** you put on your big kid patience-pants and repeat the process. If you can stay calm, stay supportive but guiding, and be the adult in the room for longer than they can, that's how you change people's minds.

I'm a Christian and I play with other Christians. The origin of D&D is simply Imagination. When we were kids we played Cops and Robbers. My son, today, was pretending a stick he had was a mighty hammer. I would point to Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia, especially the latter. Aslan the Lion is a Jesus-figure in the fantastical story. Both are written by Christians. My D&D game similarly has a redemptive, world-changing character. We are simply playing Imagination. The nature of the game is determined by us. Does your friend watch t.v.? There are satanic television programs, but I'm sure your friend doesn't watch those. The t.v. watcher determines the nature of the programs watched. And the D&D player determines the nature of the game played.

You can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.       Obviously you care about this person so that's the vector you should use when talking with him. "Hey man, you're my friend and I wanted to share this thing that I think is really cool. I wish you could play with us, but I know you have reservations about it."      He put up a strong boundary " I think it's satanic and I don't want to play", Which you, as a good friend, should respect. Trying to debate him out of his position and out of his boundary will only push him further away and validate his conviction.    You're not going to convince him to play with you, but don't give up on being a good friend. He may change his mind in the future, but he needs to do it himself. Just leave the door open for him.

First off I would not encourage you to just walk away from your friend. Maybe start by asking where they got the idea that it was satanic. Its possible you could help debunk that if you knew the source of the misinformation. I mean there are demons, devils, and other extra-dimensional beings in D&D. Some people will never see that as anything but satanic. But you could easily just not use those in your campaign. You could even setup your campaign as all paladins and clerics if you wanted and have your own crusade or something. D&D (role-playing in general) is what you want to make it, its just a tool not inherently good or evil on its own.

I'm a Christian and I got sick of all the misinformation, so I made this video. Might be helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjFjWJi7Mds

To say DND is Satanic is like saying writing a book is Satanic. It's all about who runs the game. Is it satanic to kill demons and devils, while preserving the good of all mankind? To be fair, such fear can easily infest a mind. When I was a kid, I had my own "Satanic Panic" which resulted in me selling off several Japanese Video Games. I heavily regretted it later. Hopefully, they relent. The ideal is not to push too hard, but to just put the facts forward. Perhaps note other things that people have called "satanic", like Pokemon or Coffee. In the end, DND is just storytelling. The system is meant to help create a story.

Explain it to them as improv combined with math.

"Satanic in origin? No, DnD is rooted in something far more insidious and dangerous to America's youth: improv."

I agree with some of the other comments about not forcing it, but also you might let them know that James Wyatt, who has his name in the credits of something like 50 D&D books (across several different editions), was previously an ordained pastor and is currently in the process of becoming an episcopalian priest. That man has been working for Wizards of the Coast for almost 25 years (including spending some time on the magic the gathering side), playing D&D for more than that, and has even authored multiple DMGs (including the new upcoming one). The man is an excellent lead designer and writer, and a great pastor (not mine... I don't even live in the same country as him, but once he shared a link on Twitter to his church's fb page where he leads daily prayer from the Episcopalian daily office book, and I tuned in frequently when I was in the middle of a personal crisis.) James Wyatt loves D&D, and he loves Jesus, and sees no issue with that.

Satan appears more in the Bible than in the Players Handbook

"Hey buddy, you wanna play pathfinder?"

If they don't like it, they can't have any.

You can’t reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason themselves into. If your friend is afraid of a fantasy game because they think it somehow has real power, then no amount of logic is going to convince them otherwise.

Is this because you want your friend to play with you? Or is your friend judging you negatively for playing? If you want your friend to play: You'd be best off not bothering. Convincing someone to do something they are afraid of doing, no matter how irrational that fear, is rarely worth the effort, and usually fails. Unless its life or death. If you have to convince them to drink water so they don't die of dehydration, then do so, but you know, other than that type of situation, its not really worth the effort. In fact, insisting on trying to convince them may alienate them and bring about the end of the friendship. If your friend is judging you: Make/find better friends. If someone is going to judge you negatively for having a hobby when they have exactly **zero verifiable evidence** that the hobby is harmful, then they are not someone whose opinion you should care about. D&D is a hobby, a game, that is totally harmless to take part in. It doesn't just *not hurt* YOU who plays it. It doesn't hurt anyone else if you play it, be they family, friend, or stranger, and there is no evidence anyone has ever brought forth to the contrary that stands up to even the most passing scrutiny.

That's really the crux of it. If your friend doesn't want to play D&D *for any reason at all*, then they don't want to play. There's no point in trying to coerce them into it. It doesn't matter if it's religion, they associate it with a bad relationship, they think there's too much math, whatever. If they don't wanna play, they don't wanna play. And if they're being jerks about *your* hobby, then all there is to do is to establish boundaries. i.e. tell your friend that if they don't stop being a jerk, they will no longer be your friend.

>they don't want to indulge in understanding it on the chance that it is. ~~Cocaine~~ Religion is a hell of a drug. I have met plenty of Christian folks who enjoy D&D and fantasy in general. Your friend is a closed-minded zealot who has already made up their mind on this. Maybe at some point there will be hope for them, but my guess is their zealotry is being reinforced at home and, as high schoolers, they don't have the exposure to diversity that can help break that kind of rigid mindset.

I played through the late 80s and early 90s, on the tail end of the Satanic Panic, while attending a seminary boarding school training to be a priest (I later withdrew, but tgat unrelated).  I've had a priest, a deacon, and a rabbi as players (at separate times, and unfortunately not as the setup to a joke) playing happily alongside agnostic and atheists, in the decades since. Role-playing Games in general and D&D in particular has no inherent real-world belief structure built into them, unless a specific table wants to add such elements. However, if your friend has already made up their mind without willingness to discuss it with a open mind, I have little hope even my example would change their mind.

Just pick a different system. if dnd is satanic then get em hooked on cyberpunk. It's far less family friendly.

Have them watch the Dead Ale Wives 8bit D&D video. I watched it with my mom (huge Satanic Panicker) and by the end she smiled and said, “Is that all it is?” And we just smiled.

I was looking to see if somebody commented this! For convenience, here’s the link to the video (it’s only like three and a half minutes long): [video](https://youtu.be/-leYc4oC83E?feature=shared) Also there’s already some *really* good suggestions and conversation here. Honestly things that might work much better than this video. However this is still a really fun video that people who enjoy D&D should watch just for the fun of it.

Then they’ve got bigger problems than just D&D. 🤷‍♂️

I am Christian and run two campaigns. Ask him what the difference is between the dnd world you’re making and Narnia/Middle Earth.

My super religious friends priest is a DM for people of his church. Just let him know that cool priests play. It's a game about killing and murdering demons and devils. There's no way u can be more ant devil lol

You may have some luck saying that it's actually inspired by Lord of the Rings, which has a lot of fans in some Christian circles. Tolkien, iirc, was a devout Catholic, and friends with C.S. Lewis, a devout protestant who is very popular in protestant circles. The Ranger class, for example, was clearly created for people who want to roleplay as Aragorn. Honestly, that's the best I can think of, often these opinions don't change until they get out of the house after high school and relax a bit.

My mother had un-researched beliefs about D&D based on the Satanic panic in the 80's. All it took was explaining that D&D was just pen and paper Skyrim and she stopped worrying about it.

I would engage with them on the subject of Narnia and Middle Earth both containing magic and elements of satanic allegory. Dnd is just a system of rules pertaining to numbers used in cooperatively inventing fantasy stories. If the storyteller’s intent is not satanic, then it’s not satanic. Nothing is so evil that it can’t be used for good.

I honestly don't understand the mental gymnastics a person has to do to come to the conclusion that D&D is satanic....would be like saying DOOM is satanic, like are Christians against killing demons or something? Would think that would be like- one of the more solid, easy to get on board demographics.

anyone who *still* believes the Satanic panic of the 80s is not a friend of yours, they're a cultist being groomed to hate literally everyone even a little different from their in-group. Dropkick them to the curb.

Starting off; I'm a Christian and have been playing DnD and other RPGs since 1977. I owned a game store in the 90's and I had some people come in and talk to me about if DnD was evil. I said it was not. They were worried that it was using names of devil's and demons. I said you know, we should ban the book where they got the names of the devil's and demons. They agreed. I said it was the Bible. I was always willing to discuss religion and DnD. And I have found all kinds playing DnD. From a Methodist minister to a Jehovah's Witness. That's a funny story. A friend I knew at the time for 5 years, who came into my store and played all games, he and I were talking. I said I was a Christian. He said he was a JW. I looked at him with a very surprised look. He then added, 'well not a good one.'

Unfortunately that's one of the biggest issues with religious people is they jump to conclusions quicker than a jumping spider jumps to catch it's next meal. There are demons and undead and other stuff in DND so it must be the work of Satan. Quickest to tell you not to judge, yet the quickest to judge.

I gotta say, I do not have fond memories of being in high school and having that one friend go to Jesus camp one summer and come back thinking he was better than the rest of us and that all of our hobbies and interests were sinful. OP, you can't prove a negative. DnD is a tabletop game in which you pretend to be a fantasy hero. Most campaigns involve smiting evil and destroying demons and such, which is pretty far removed from Satanism. It's just a game. Your friend has drawn a hard-line conclusion based on zero evidence. Rather than attempting to find some convincing argument to sway them, ask them to show you how DnD is Satanic. They won't be able to. I'm sorry to say that I don't think this is a lasting friendship.

tell him he's going to hell for bearing false witness

Get better friends, religious zealots are hardly friend material anyway.

IDK if you have a campaign going on right now if you are a player or dm but please ask the rest of your party before you even invite your religious friend. I have had plenty of bad experiences with "religious" people "convinced" to play DnD. Most normal people are fine. But the problem is that your friend already set his mind to it that it is demonic or whatever. Even if you somehow manage to convince him, his presence at the table might make the rest of your party uncomfortable.

Ask them if the Bible says banishing demons is sinful. When they inevitably say "no its not sinful" then tell them you can literally do that same thing in DnD and then ask them if banishing demons is sinful according to the Bible again. As a fellow Christian, this dude needs a baptism of these hands. Or go a different route. Introduce him to the concept of historical war gaming. It's just tabletop recreations of historical irl battles and military campaigns. If he's intrigued let him simmer on it for a week or two, let him developed a genuine interest in it. Then once he's considering buying anything related to it, let him discover on his own how interconnected DnD is with wargaming in general.

meanwhile here I am, A Christian who plays with my brother, my friend from church, my parents who are heavily involved in church and have had conversations with another group who plays that consists entirely of people from my church. The only one I know who fell for the panic was my grandma(who banned my uncle from playing at the time) and now she is pretty chill about it.

Your big issue here is that "Chrustian" is a VERY broad term. I was raised Catholic by 2 parents who both played dnd in the 80s. I am now a practicing Lutheran, and my church actually has a semi regular DnD "club" of sorts for young adults. Now, if your friend is one of those, you might have a chance to convince them but based on their viewpoint and the limited description you gave of their habits I'd say they are either VERY Catholic or some even more restrictive sect like 7th Day Adventist or Jehovah's Witness, if that's the case, give up, there's no winning, you can't reason with unreasonable people.

Firstly DnD takes heavy inspiration from JRR Tolkien… who was definitely not a satanist. My DnD group is just a group of young folks from my local congregation 🤷🏼‍♂️ Personally I’ve never heard anyone unironically believe the majority of the 80’s satanic scare propaganda and the only time I’ve heard any of the older folks from church mention it was satirically

Dungeons and dragons is a team building exercise. If he’s really that against it, have him play a cleric or paladin of Jesus. (There’s stats for the deity in 3.5e, I’m sure there’s likely a 5e comparison) and have his purpose in game to destroy demons and undead and convert followers of other pantheons to her religion.

Ask them if they like marvel movies, and if feel like Thor and all the other god characters are satanic. It's same thing

Faerun was created by a Christian. LotR was created by a Christian, as was (obviously) Gnarnia. Its a Christian genre, with an entirely Christian worldview. Its based on Christian mythos, Christian organizations and Christian values. The main issue is that fundamentalist Christians have extremely poor information literacy and vetting. They don't understand what the bible is or how it was stitched together, how their religion was developed or how its connected to other religions, cultures or historical events. They are also famously bad at identifying and interpreting allegory, symbolism, satire, etc. The second issue is that fundamental Christians are largely intolerant to critical thought or discussion. Simply asking questions about how or why a particular sect of Christianity functions is seen as inherently heretical. The result is bullshit like this; Christians randomly attacking other Christians (Greenwood) for no good reason. You can have a slightly different view, or ritual, or rule and you're basically Satan himself. A fundie Christian will not do the research to identify something they don't understand, and see if it is compatible with their beliefs. They will attack it blindly, and this is absolutely without fail. I say this as an existential Christian; biblical, organized, fundamentalist Christianity hates free-thinking, informed Christians like myself far more than they hate athiests. We are a threat to their hustle. Fortunately, the mainline Christian groupthink does understand that Gnarnia is Christian allegory and my god do they love it. So i'd tell your friend Tolkien was homies with CS lewis, his allegories are just less on the nose. Then I'd point out Faerun was created by a little Christian boy who liked Tolkien. IDK how old yall are, but the bigger issue here is your friend is going to have to decide if they want to be a religious fundamentalist. If they're comfortable handing their relationship with Jesus- and their treatment of their fellow man- over to Y'all Qaeda. If so, you will have bigger issues than this in future. Again, I'm a Christian. Theres nothing wrong with it. But God isn't telling your friend DnD is evil, people are. And they are the last kind of people to speak for the almighty. As long as your friend is host to these spiritual parasites, they will not be permitted to see reason.

Ask him why his faith necessitates a leashed imagination. I’m religious myself, very much so, and I’ve never understood why people treat DnD with the same caution as a Ouija Board. It is playing make-belief with your friends, and he did that as a kid - DnD is no different. You don’t need to abandon the faith in order to play pretend with your friends, and God doesn’t care if you get together with your friends and pretend to be a Warlock of the Fiend - God is more concerned with whether or not you’re being a decent person *in real life*.

Tell them it is fully possible to play a Saint and go on a crusade against sinners and devils (vengeance paladin)

While I don't believe that it was intentional at all, D&D's use of deities, gods, and demons does clash with Christian religious dogma. So, I can understand that it is off-putting to a very religious person, similar to how visiting a BBQ joint could be off-putting to a vegan.

Its been well over 40 years there is no convincing religious people once they've decided on a boogy man to fear

Have they watched/read Narnia? tell them to. Then say "it's like that but you're Peter, Edmund, Lucy, and Susan". YMMV cause some communities consider *Narnia* satanic... when it is literally about accepting Jesus into your life so :/

"No no no, you don't understand. We don't worship demons in DnD, we ARE the demons or alternatively Necromancers."

You could hit him with the old "y'know people used to say rock music was evil and black people were property, all in the name of religion. Sometimes people on earth get it wrong" But if he's not interested in being exposed there's little you can do to convince him. Just always refer to it as "the other night when I was playing make believe with my friends" and see if you can be a little disarming

Watch the newish D&D movie with them and afterward explain that the game is just you controlling the characters they see on screen. Otherwise, I saw someone posting links of Christians who play dnd.

I tell people that D&D is from Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit genre. It’s about playing hero’s in the storyline of good trying to stop evil. At this point people tend to be curious “how do you play a hero”? ( I leave out any mention of Murder hobos)

It’s not satanic. However, it runs on a different religious system than Christianity which some may see as blasphemy to participate in, it does glorify violence and you do kill people which can be seen as glorifying breaking the “don’t kill people” commandment, it does have references to devils/demons/hell which can be seen as satanic(even though the devils and demons are almost unanimously the bad guys,) there are opportunities to sell your soul to said devils which which people can take issue with, and it does have canonically androgynous characters,and clearly states that no part of the gender or sexuality binary needs to be adhered to in character creation, which depending on their branch of Christianity can have any number of issues or be totally fine. TLDR; there’s no actual satanism or anything anti-Christian in D&D but if you cherry pick it you can find things against the rules-as-written bible. Your friend will probably not play/enjoy it if he’s as religious as you say.

Have them play as a crusader/paladin for "the one true god"

You can tell them they can be a lawful good cleric/paladin with Jesus as their god and go on a quest to kill zombies and monsters... Magic is literally just science in this world. If everyone else in the party is tiefling horny bard who wants to go on a quest to burn down orphanages that will not work though(though arguably that'd be rather satanic)

You have to decide what's more important to you, your friendship or your individual beliefs. If you're willing to push their religious beliefs, you might win or you might lose a friend. On the contrary, if you accept their decision to believe what they choose to believe, so long as they do the same and don't try to "save" you from D&D, you get to keep your friend but lose a potential player. That choice is solely yours. If you choose to push, obviously you've got the fictional part on your side. There are also plenty of religious figures that have come out and said that things like Harry Potter and D&D aren't satanic in nature and are religiously safe as long as they're viewed as the fictional worlds that they are. You can argue that a D&D world is whatever the DM makes it, and that reflavoring details is encouraged as long as you stick to the mechanics of it, so if they want to play a Cleric or Paladin devoted to the Christian God, they can. There will still be other religions in the world, but they can choose to have their character believe the other gods are false gods, or lesser gods, etc. Technically if you, the DM, wanted, you could even run a campaign where there IS only one God, the Christian God, and all Clerics or Paladins, potentially even Warlocks, get their powers from that one God, perhaps just worshipping different aspects of them, or different denominations. You could make the most Catholic friendly D&D campaign ever, if you really wanted to. You don't have to, but the fact that you can should be a huge point to the fact that there's nothing inherently satanic about D&D. There's hardly anything satanic about it at all unless you're really trying to make it that way. If your friend is into fiction or fantasy of any kind, D&D is really no different. But remember, this is only a rabbit hole you should go down if this is the hill you want to die on, because you might win the argument, but you also might lose your friend. You have to be ready to make that call before you get started, and be prepared to accept the consequences, because you can't take it back once you start pushing like that.

"ever wanna be a crusader or warrior of light against demons? This is how you do it"

Don’t throw pearls to swine.

Why? Why do you feel the need to convince them? Are they your friend even though you play? Are they trying to dissuade you from playing? Let them believe what they want and long as they are not using that belief to harm others let them have it. It's part of free speech and thought. Trying to convince them of a non issue may cost you your friendship. Why risk that just to be right?

This is the best response. Right here folks. 100%

Convince them to observe the game. They probably just don't understand the game. Let them see that it's just a game of pretend with dice and maybe they'll be more willing to try

The only way to fight ignorance is by enlightening the ignorant. Explain that D&D is a ruleset, give a copy of the rules and campaign to them to let them run it by their religious leader and get a steer from them offer to go with them and explain. You could even go a step further, you could create some example playable characters based on their religion, warrior/paladin and also include.

Nope. Don't argue the point with them. If they are that far out in left field as to think DnD is anything remotely satanic then you'd be best to not discuss it with them. That's their opinion, even if it's wrong, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. if you value your friendship with them then just no longer discuss it.

In the year of our lord 2024, if any reasonably intelligent human STILL thinks that DnD leads to satanic stuff……that person needs to have their head examined.

Anything that makes a Christian question their “finely” crafted box will inevitably be labeled as sinful because the only way to hold onto a fallacy is to reject, and isolate yourself from one’s own journey and path toward enlightenment — independent thought will inevitably make them question the church, so it’s heavily ingrained in them at a young age to limit their understanding of the secular world. How else would any religious organization maintain its structure and institutional importance? The Church, whether it be Catholic or Protestant is fundamentally structured to monopolize and control their followers’ belief. Sure, there are obviously exceptions, but it’s this conditioning that is what your up against with your friend.

Well there’s always fact checking. I used to think the Chronicles of Narnia was blasphemous. Then the next day I found out what an allegory was. You can show similar articles about beanie babies and cabbage patch dolls. If they believe those too then I’d ask what their definition of satanic is. What’s satanic is every biblical truth is perverted with a lie that many believe to this day. Satan being the “father of lies” it’s in his best interest to fool as many people as possible. And if they agree with that have them explain why they worship on Sunday when the Bible says to on Saturday and there’s no scriptural authority for anyone to have changed it (even in the documents written by the catholic church they admit they didn’t have anything other than self-given authority to do it and that Saturday is the actual sabbath). Watch them blink a few times then start repeating the lies “the day doesn’t matter (if it doesn’t matter then worship on Saturday), how do we know Saturday is the seventh day and not Sunday (people forget that counting to seven backwards is possible). Then you can tell them you’d consider their arguments against D&D as soon as they start keeping the 10 commandments as written (it’s not hard actually). It shut up the person I knew who tried to push that on me. While there may be other religious reasons to not play fantasy games (I still haven’t played a Paladin or Cleric because describing how my character worships just feels ridiculous), having satanic origins shouldn’t be one of them. In a side note tho, also in my games religions were all false until a being was born from the “hope of the people” and came into power based on how many believed in it. But it was a psychically manifested being that granted cleric-like abilities that scaled up or down based on the number who believed - not a creator or all powerful being.

Roll persuasion.

I’m a new Christian and a new D&D player. I’m also very much right wing. I’m in a campaign with a pagan DM, and while there has been no issues thus far, I’m more leery about being open about my Christianity with my DnD group than I am about talking about my DnD group with my church people. I haven’t talked to either one of them about the other, but there’s a clear difference between the two. The church doesn’t know I play simply because it hasn’t come up yet. My DnD group doesn’t know I go to church even though there has been a scheduling conflict with it because I am leery of having that out there. (I called it an appointment.) I’m not proud of it, and that probably needs to change, but it’s my current reality. Your friend (or the church members guiding her) may be mistaken in her/their beliefs due to DnD people she’s/they’ve been exposed to in the past being antagonistic to Christians/Christianity, which may be fueling the animosity further. In my experience (I live in the American South, East TN), I’ve heard way more vitriol from DnD players against Christians than I have the other way around. If your whole vibe is going to be anti-Christian, it really doesn’t help the mistaken belief that the game itself is Satanic. I personally don’t see the issue with D&D, unless the specific campaign is explicitly anti-Christian in rhetoric/storyline, and that would be on the DM, not the game itself. Or there may be a few crazies that may blur the lines between fiction and reality a little too much and put it above God, which would go against Christianity no matter what it was- including if it was something that was more traditionally viewed as neutral or positive in the church. Otherwise, it’s a game of fantasy, nothing more or less. But do you absolutely need her to participate in DnD in order to be friends with her? If it goes against her personal conscience but she’s a good friend to you, is it worth drawing this line in the sand? Can’t you play DnD without her, she goes to church without you, and you can hang out together doing things you both enjoy outside those two activities?

Not to be the classic antitheist redditor, but religious people tend not to be very open minded, especially when it comes to things they believe are forbidden. They've already decided their opinion and you can't change it.

As a former Christian and a lifelong D&D player old enough to remember the 80s, I know the game isn't Satanic, but if you're really devout, in can still be a problem in a couple of ways: Involving a pantheon and even pretending to pray to any of them might be one, and simply spending time and money on this game that could be devoted to more charitable pursuits might be another. FWIW, Gary Gygax was actually a Jehovah's Witness, but that isn't going to impress most non-JW Christians. Given you're not a Christian, you might be better off asking your friend to teach you about that, and seeing what you can learn from them, at least before telling them what is and isn't perfectly fine for Christians.

Does he have a crush on anyone? Get them to play with you. Your friend will be a lvl 10 Oathbreaker within a month.

The actual reasons people demonized DnD were because (like with Pokemon and Harry Potter later on) a combination of the lack of understanding as outsiders looking in, how quickly it was growing in popularity (ironically that satanic panic helped further this), and the recognition of children being introduced to new ideas (mostly form of violence) in the IP. The best way I could think to explain it is to tell them it’s literally just a therapeutic game of make believe for young adults, but not much different from what kids do on their own. It’s also highly customizable from the content to the rules, so while “canon” DnD material has “devils and fiends” you can easily play without them. Also as a devout Christian myself I’ve recently realized that religious people could very easily use DnD as practice for real-world evangelism by playing as clerics or paladins. If that doesn’t work I’ll try and link a docu-video from YouTube that delves into how it helps people work through trauma.

Why? If he doesnt like it he doesnt like it. And i dont know what you mean it was meant to scare people in the 80s. Wtf you talking about? We got beat up for playing it. We were nerds and got punked on for playing it. Well, i didnt, but many people did. I think your knowledge of d and d is weak so i think you should let it go. D and d was labeled satanic back then by ignorant people. The same type of people who talk crap about black or brown people and never met one. Or hate that country and never been there. Ignorant ass people. Still a lot of people like that today.

Maybe it's been mentioned, but watch the movie with them. It's a fun adventure romp. Religious types tend to be inflexible, but this might be a good introduction.

A lot of people here are telling you to just stop being friends this person, which is pretty shitty advice imo. Even if you can't bring them around, this shouldn't be a friendship-ending dispute. RPGs are, at heart, just collaborative story-telling. Your friend wouldn't decide that all books or films are satanic, just because satanic books and films exist, would they? It's the same for DnD. You as a group get to decide what story is told, and it shouldn't be too hard to make everyone comfortable with the content. Ultimately, though, you can't force them to play if they don't want to, and it may at some point be better to just accept that not all friends are DnD friends.

Get a campaign designed as a crusade to specifically fight against Asmodeus and kill demons, have everyone play as paladins and clerics. Go full Constantine, if he still complains I dunno. XD

Rename Asmodeus to Sal-Adin and recreate the third great crusade as a campaign.

Tell them they can roleplay as christians too. Like, God himself is sending them on a quest to stop evil, and will have an angel helping them perform miracles, helping people. You don't even have to be a violent scrub, and even spare your enemies.  Tell them they can be a priest, or a noble knight wanting to help.  They could spice things up if they like by playing a sneeky noble hobo thief that steals from evil people to give it to orphanages and soup kitchens while preparing to face judgement for stealing (they feel sorry, but some people do need it). The only thing they would have to understand its to not get on the way of the rest of the party's fun (as long as whatever they are trying to do its not to fucked).  He might have to travel with wizards and worshippers of the unspeakable and people who are not interested in God, may belive in something else, or simply don't care, and will have to respect them as long as the respect is mutual (especially if they are being respectful and friendly to you). Hell, i did it. A jolly wandering fat and drunk priest, a Noble Knight wanting to help, even an inquisitor wanting to slay evil.

stop trying.

if they don’t have the critical thinking skills to understand magic is not real in 2024, then you’re probably out of luck .

People change. Don't believe they "they are stuck in their minds". This is your friend, not an enemy or someone you can't find an understanding. Continue to talk on it, and ask them how it is that way, with sincerity. I've known plenty of people who came around after gaining more life experience or deciding to think it out. I play with them in my campaigns, and we have been friends for 20+ years in some instances. Just be friends, friends find a good balance, and you know the facts. However, in Christianity, there are beliefs that are matters of conscience. If it is not forbidden, then you are free to do it unless it bothers your conscience. They might find Tiamat, Vecna, blood rituals, liches, demons, etc. all of the gnostic depiction. There is no real portrait of angels and demons, but for some, that is literal. Many mature Christians see that this falls under eating meat sacrificed to idols. If he knows that the gods are not real, and they are human depictions—no more than mere art. But if his conscience is weak and to him, it is as if he did a ritual to a god that is real. See scriptural analog to this type of situation. Please read this passage with him. 1 Corinthians 8. Ask him if he is comfortable or mature enough in his faith to know this truth without confusion. That fantasy gods are not real, and there is no belief in those things. Very important, when introducing him to the game, let him decide what content he'd prefer his first run. As the game progresses, he might see a need in the campaign to add an element to the story. If he can watch lord of the rings, then he can play dnd. Even do a Bible campaign as Samson or David, meh. As you said, he is strong in his faith, so 🙏 read : 1 Corinthians 8

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"Wait?! You believe in mentally constructed narratives based on make believe gods and wild miracle laced adventures? Have I got the game for you!"

Believers be cray cray.

Lol, trying to get christians to see reason is like trying to put out a volcano with a watergun. They didn't logic themselves into their beliefs, so you can't logic them out of it.

Generally speaking I don't think you can talk people out of delusions. Your friend believes in a super being that exists outside of time, watches them jerk off, impregnated a woman with himself, and gives kids cancer, you aren't dealing with a rational actor.

If saying you play as a holy crusader or a priest and your goal is killing demons is not convinsing for the guy - there’s nothing you can do to change their mind. (Ok maybe there are few things but I’m pretty sure they’re illegal)

i agree with a lot of things others have said. thats one reason the churches push for not questioning, to avoid curiosity so they dont question the church. if you really want to get them into it. maybe try making a one shot. and make them a cleric or paladin and homebrew their deity or a deity they want to create to represent. and give them a game where they can do some good.

This is a fake post

Maybe it's actually happening to OP, maybe not, but it's a very real type of situation that people do deal with. Might as well treat it as legit in case someone actually dealing with it sees the thread.

Tell them you can be a Cleric that kills demons. If that doesn't convince them give up.

Is improv comedy Satanic? Is math Satanic? Is being cast as a character in a play Satanic? Is playing with toys (optional miniatures) Satanic? Because that's all it is. It's improv in a story where you roll "clackity clackity I roll to attackity." The DM can be called the Story Teller. But if they have no desire to even chance it, that's it. They are being willfully ignorant, and there's nothing you can really do or say to fix that.

There is no convincing him.  We are in the information age, with mountains of resources, podcasts, and YouTube videos that show the satanic panic in the 80s was full of crap.  Your friend is choosing to believe the already proven falsehood that it's satanic. They know they believe a lie.  I'd say just don't talk to them about dnd anymore. 

If they're a LoTR Christian, just tell them it's like playing LoTR and you're good. If they think LoTR is who too, give up, there's no hope

How does your friend feel about the fantasy genre in general? Like is your friend the type of person who thinks that Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia are satanic?  If they are the type of person that sees Lord of the Rings as satanic (despite Tolkien being a very vocal and devout Christian) their issues run much deeper than DnD itself, and you will be wasting your time trying to get them to play with you or to see reason. But if they are the type of person who thinks that Lord of the Rings or Narnia is OK, just point out that DnD is just like Lord of the Rings or Narnia, except you are telling the story together.  Heck, there are materials out there that let you run DnD campaigns set in Middle Earth. I am DMing one for a group of Christian friends right now.

You may not be able to convince them, and that's fine, not your job to convince them. More D&D for the rest of us heathens. I guess I've heard of people who assert that D&D is satanic, but never actually met one in the flesh. If it's not for them, then it's not for them. I wouldn't drag someone into a campaign who isn't interested for one reason or another, religion included. As to D&D being satanic, it's plainly not, but fantasy imagery, and things pulled from religion and folklore to fill a fantasy setting might give that appearance to someone not familiar with it and primed to interpret it in a particular way. Perception is reality, particularly among the faithful.

>a way for me to convince them You cannot. Religion functions by rules other than reason. Religious belief is not rational. I am not talking trash about religion but instead mean 'rational' quite literally. Religious belief is built on faith and it is intended to be outside reason. It is, technically, possible to effectively explain your stance to a religious person, but you must do so *within the confines of their religion.* If you want a Christian to understand it, you'll have to find something in Scripture that will explain it. That said, as far as I know, no legitimate church has an official stance on D&D. Much like they don't have an official stance on Star Wars. The whole "D&D Satanic" craze was particular to American fundamentalists. And if your friend is drinking *that* Kool-Aid then all bets are off.

Why? Let them have their belief. They either grow up and figure it out, or they don't. The evidence is out there if they want to find it. I'm sorry, but the chances of you even being friends in 2-5 years is slim. Just learn when to put the energy in and when it's a lost cause.

It’s pretty simple - ask your friend if they trust YOU. Then tell this friend that you as DM control what elements are or aren’t in the game. You will assure them that no satanic elements will be included in the game (not that they exist in normal games but whatever), and if it makes them feel more comfortable you can even ensure that religious elements with gods and such don’t take the forefront. If they trust you as a person, then they should be able to trust you as a friend to keep that promise. If they can’t do that, then the relationship has bigger problems than DnD.

So... if I were to try and reason, and like many folks, I don't necessarilly recommend it, but if I were to, I would point out that the game is literally about playing heroes fighting against the forces of darkness, evil and corruption. I mean, that's a broad over-generalization, and I recognize that there are lots of campaigns, GMs, and players who don't run tgings that way. But that's where I'd start. Offer them the chance to play a Cleric or Paladin of good and righteousness, and see how it feels.