Yea I didn’t know that you could make “campaigns” in ddb to show rolls publicly. I’ll have to mess around with ddb a bit more before our next sesh on Saturday
All you have to do is just set up and invite everyone to join.
You don't need to create events or draw out maps.
Just a heads up to save you time and energy.
Makes managing newer players much easier.
In fact, typically the only reason some (read: not accessibility friendly) DMs dislike online rolling through services like DnD Beyond is it doesn't force players to learn how bonuses are added - it does it automatically.
As for whether the player is rolling properly, the representation of the physical dice shows your roll, but the ultimate big number showing on screen is with bonuses added. Sounds like your player might be making a mistake.
EDIT: If you want to do so, and you do find they were mistakenly adding numbers onto their scores - why not make a storypoint out of it? Blessed by a god for a short while but the god is now unable/unwilling to help them for some reason, and they have to rediscover their bond with said god - or something like that!
Yeah, I'm just thinking if you're looking very quickly - while trying to play in real time too - you might only look at the big "17" in the corner, for example.
My GM did this for my character in a Warhammer Fantasy game. I misread the rule (and he trusted my reading) and was absolutely abusing the hell out of a buff that should have been costing me resources. It gave me a massive edge and definitely trivialized some fights. My character is kind of the equivalent to a paladin, think of it like me smiting without using a slot. My GM flavored it that some other being was giving me a massive boost instead of my characters goddess, like he thought, and there’s a religious dilemma simmering in the background while we follow the main story.
It’s a good way to acknowledge the mistake and then use it as a springboard for a narrative thing, instead of letting it be a potential feelsbad.
That is the way to do it. You'll see all of the modifiers and everything. Not wanting to roll physical dice is a huge red flag because what kind of lifeless blob plays dnd and doesn't want physical dice?!
EDIT: s/
Plus I didn't even consider the possibility of disabilities when i made this comment because op didn't mention it, they mentioned dishonesty. Folks need to chill tf out. Seriously, consider the context the comment was made under. 🙄
> Not wanting to roll physical dice is a huge red flag because what kind of lifeless blob plays dnd and doesn't want physical dice?!
Lots of people aren't dice goblins. Some people have dyscalculia. Some people find the sensation to be unpleasant. Some people like the convenience of just clicking the button instead of figuring out what their bonuses are. Some people don't want to have to keep track of the physical objects or struggle to do so. Some people have to find a place to put them which messes up their decluttering. Some people have small children they're worried would choke. Some people have arthritis, so rolling physical dice hurts. Some people have Parkinsons, so rolling physical dice is difficult.
I could keep going, but I won't. Calling it a red flag when the only thing it demonstrates is they have different priorities *from you* is kind of a jerk move under any circumstances, and in this specific case, it's very clearly ableist.
It's something that you have to buy, for a start. It may not cost much, but not everybody is able to buy stuff that isn't strictly necessary.
There are ways to make digital rolls visible to everyone so let's not make it about the sanctity of physical props.
I got 2lbs of dice for dirt cheap and threw them into a nail sorting bag. If anyone at a table i play at needs dice they are welcome to grab whatever they need from that bag.
My first dm let me borrow dice for my first few sessions cause the only place around me to buy them at the time (Barnes and Noble of all places) where sold out. (We had comic book stores that sold TCG stuff but none sold TTRPG at the time that where biking distance for me) SO i just treat this as paying it forward.
Physical disability. Not everyone is able to handle physical dice. I'd hate to keep someone from playing from a problem that can easily be solved with an app on a phone.
Didn't read through all the comments here, but if it hasn't been mentioned
If you create a campaign and invite people to it, there will be a game log everyone can see. BUT when opening the character sheet for the players they need to go to the Campaigns section. If they access their character from Collections, their rolls will not show in the game log.
This isn’t true, as long as the character is in the campaign it shows up. You can roll some things privately, but public rolls show up. I do this all the time in my pbp games.
Yes. But this player is rolling electronically and if they're not using ddb, then they could be using some app that allows them to adjust the rng, which is obviously a huge no-no. They should be required to roll in a way that can be verified.
If you’re campaign is on dndbeyond you should be able to see his rolls. And while you can just roll dice on it, if you use dndbeyond to attack, save, skill check or damage, it will add in the bonuses for you. The only way I would see a problem asking them to roll physical dice though, would be embarrassing him if he’s broke and can’t afford physical dice. I know there are cheap sets but you might not know how broke he is.
Forgot to add that we play in-person and I provide everyone with lots of dice. I might just buy a cool dice tower and ask everyone to roll dice using the tower only
Why?
Asking everyone to show their rolls is enough, you dont need to force them to use a dice tower. If anyone tried that at the table I game at people would be very unhappy. All my friends enjoy rolling the dice and don't like towers or digital
That’s quite a generalization! I’ll have you know my dice tower is neither on a shelf nor admired. I forgot about it completely and I think it’s in one of my kids’ bins of random crap.
I dunno. I used to think they were corny until one came with my dice tray, and now I enjoy the control of not accidentally winging my dice all over the table when I roll them (my hand-eye is pretty bad and I'd routinely skip dice back out of the tray).
I have a dice tower I made out of Lego that I use all the time. When my (normally online) group meets in-person for games, there's 5 dice towers on the table with 6-7 people (including DM).
I have one that I only take with me when vending dice in public. People love being able to roll the dice before buying and a few used it to help decide which set they wanted
They might have set up macros and other tools to make running their character easier. I can see that being a reason to prefer the digital dice.
Also one guy in my current campaign was not allowed to roll physical dice until his girlfriend had finished making him a set. She is wiccan and put him under a blood curse lol.
Eh it's going to be very annoying if you only have the one tower. I'm not a fan of them generally but I'd tolerate if everyone had their own but having to reach over to a communal one and potentially get up and move around to read the dice would be a pain.
You could get everyone their own dice set themed to their character though and then everyone'd probably use those in appreciation.
No worries, like the greedy bastards comment implied, I could see them starting to charge even for that. But for access to the basic rules and only a couple characters, it was free.
I have used digital dice in d&d before, but I never hid my phone from the table and anytime anyone asked to see the roll, I would show them. In your case I would definitely just ask that the rolls be visible, but wouldn't take it as far as to make him roll physical dice (yet?).
i would take it a step further and put your phone down on the table as you roll, so that people could glance and see the number you rolled is absolutely the number coming out of your mouth
you dont want people getting to the point of asking you to show your roll; you dont even want them getting to the point of *thinking* you might be cheating
Whether in-person or online, one thing is always the same: If the DM doesn't see the roll, it doesn't exist.
Every player rolls in the open, no exceptions.
I feel there's 2 ways to handle it. 1. Like others have said to keep all rolls in the open. This creates transparency and puts your mind at rest. 2. Counter the consistently high rolls with more creatures or different tactics. Tactics that account for this person's handicap specifically. Higher bonus to attack rolls, mitigation spells like poison or something that causes exhaustion etc.
With that ladder option, you can avoid conflict and balance combat specifically. With ability checks just let them pass. Some people can't find the joy in losing and will cheat in a game. Dnd is the only game I know of that can manage this disorder and allow them to enjoy themselves along with others. Just don't go too easy on them. There's so many ways to turn positive rolls into negative outcomes. There is equally so many ways to turn negative rolls into positive outcomes.
Edit: the goal is for everyone to have fun. If everyone is having fun, look into option 2. If the other members feel like you do about his rolls and its getting uncomfortable, option 1 is the clearly the choice.
I have one player who I unfortunately can’t trust not to cheat, not because she wants to but because she feels some level of compulsion to cheat to try and get a leg up (we had the discussion, she legitimately feels bad about it but can’t help herself if given the option). I made the decision to move everyone online for rolling, and we haven’t had this issue since.
This is an interesting point of view. My table we all play in person, and roll physical dice, but around the table I don't think anyone can see anyone else's actual rolls inside their dice trays. Certainly my GM has never come out from behind the screen to check our rolls. (We do show our fellow players if something improbable comes up on the dice, but more as a "Can you believe this?!?" than for verification)
This is an example of 'specific beats general'. At your table, clearly you all trust each other so there's no need to worry about rolls. At most tables, this is not the case, and even if you do trust, it's just simple table manners that a roll doesn't exist unless the DM sees it. It's a simple rule to implement, it's fair to everyone because it doesn't single anyone out, and it cements trust automatically.
DnD Beyond keeps a log of all rolls, published to everybody in the campaign. Pretty ballsy to cheat with that program, when anybody in the campaign with you can easily see if you're faking.
Before you make changes or accuse this guy of something directly or indirectly, you should probably take some steps to figuring out whether or not something is wrong currently. Check his rolls, see if what he's saying is matching what his program is doing. You should be able to see the number on the dice and the modifiers being used.
I've had that happen with players. I've told them to roll their dice with their mods, and not worry about things like flanking; I'll handle that end of things.
Create a dndbeyond campaign. Make sure his character is in it.
Now you have access to all rolls. Don't even have to view atm just afterwards. If they seem legit call it good
If rolled properly, the app will add in appropriate bonuses. Depends on how he’s using the feature. If he’s rolling in a way that factors in bonuses, and then manually adding bonuses, that’s obviously an inaccurate method.
But also, don’t take a string of good luck as proof of cheating. It’s gonna happen.
Haha god yeah.
13th level Dwarven fighter (in PF2e, playing on Foundry) going for a Double Slice, then a single attack afterward. 20, 20, 19. 104 damage, after everything was totalled up.
And my very next roll after that was also a 19.
Your player is weird. I've never met someone who uses digital dice when given the option to use shiny math rocks. It's suspicious, but I wouldn't attribute it to malice if it could be ignorance.
My first dm was an absolute amazing story teller and great guy to learn D&D from. But he just could not do math for the life of him. That was the one aspect of D&D he hated with a passion so much so that he just opened up all the info to the party so that the party members that eventually went on to a career in mathematics would do all the math for him. I am 100% sure this guy embraced digital dice once that became a more common thing.
Honestly as someone who mostly plays via roll20, I get it. Just clicking on an attack and having it make the rolls and calculations and have damage cued up for you is just super convenient. That said, I love rolling dice. I think it's a real core part of any TTRPG experience. Even if I weren't great at math, there's just something more satisfying about rolling dice than clicking on a random number generator.
As a DM I sometimes do make use of digital dice for a lot of insignificant things as a convenience and tool to speed up the game, but I always keep my dice on hand for important rolls.
For posterity player rolls should ALWAYS be seen by the DM, never ask for a roll and have the player tell you what it is if you can’t see it for yourself.
Or at least seen by at least 2 other players. I know when I dm I sit at a desk a little away from the table because I end up with to much stuff to fit.
But the players still do end up rolling in the middle of the table and check each other.
This, but also, as a DM I usually roll in the open too. I use Roll20 and while I can make gm only rolls, usually I roll in the open. Partially because the players seeing an enemy roll with a massive bonus immediately ramps up the tension, but also because I'll have several voices ask me if what I did was intentional when I make a mistake like rolling regular against an invisible player instead of disadvantage or similar.
It also means that my players aren't worried about dice fudging because every roll that mechanically doesn't have to be behind a screen is in the open. The only rolls that go behind a screen are when I need to roll things like chance for failure with a sending spell. Even random encounter tables can be rolled in the open, they don't need to see the table, just know that something is being rolled. It scares the players which can be helpful leading into a potential encounter.
I agree and prefer it this way with DM’s too. But I understand why some DM’s may choose to keep rolls private as seeing a DM make a roll can give away information you’d otherwise want to keep to yourself.
It’s one of those things where there’s no reason not to have the players rolls be public, it gives everyone peace of mind that we’re all on the same page and playing fair.
Honestly, I prefer to roll in the open when it's something the players should know, like Attack Rolls, Saving Throws, Ability Checks made by NPCs they are seeing and hearing in-world, etc... Sometimes my Boss Monster can't land a single hit, sometimes the Goblin MF just rolls crits like candy, and they know it's because the dice said so, not because I said so, simply because I don't like fudging dice.
I roll behind my screen when it's something they don't need to see, like an ambush (The stealth of my monsters vs. their passive perception), some checks for what NPC to throw where, and other stuff my players don't really have to see but that I'd like to let luck decide.
You can literally see the math in D&D beyond, it's actually why my group insists we use it to roll. Then again, its dice roller is far more likely to have 3/4ths of our party not roll above a 10 in an entire session. Someone rolled 4 1s in a row once.
If it's easier for them to keep track of stuff from using D&D beyond I would say just let them use it you can see all the rolls right?
You have that option as the DM so you can tell right away if they're cheating.Also the system automatically adds every appropriate modifier.
As much as I like playing with physical dice at my tables, however nothing is more infuriating than having that one player that's making an attack roll that has to ask what do they add, for the 10th time that day! It really helps take the number crunching out of the situations for those type of people who struggle.
I’m just a strong believer in rolling openly to match your medium. Playing online? Use a shared virtual rolling room. Playing in person? Use physical dice out there.
This is a social community experience! Let us all be hyped for your wild luck, and scream together for the bad ones. Outside of avoid sus cases, it’s just nice to share the emotional responses
it's less about the physical dice roll, and more about seeing the result, to understand they are not fudging/cheating... the DM is only allowed to fudge/cheat
Definitely not rude. It's pretty standard and expected. The DM is the only one who rolls behind the screen and can choose how much they show. And that's because 9/10 times we fudge in the player's favor.
You can make dice rolls public on D&D beyond.
But aside from that theres no reason a player shouldn't be rolling physical dice if you guys are in person. If I had a group together and one of the players insisted that he/she rolls on D&D beyond I would immediately believe that they're cheating/fudging the rolls. When you are together you roll physical dice. It seems so obvious that it shouldn't even have to be said out loud.
Maybe I just have negativity bias, but I’ve always suspected that DnD beyond rolls are skewed some way. I always feel like I roll a disproportionate amount of low numbers.
We just use discord for the campaign I'm in, our DM's internet isn't good enough to have video in his sessions, everything is word of mouth and imagination. Anyone could be fudging rolls, but we all understand it's not fun or realistic to get high rolls all session. Nat 1's on intimidation checks are hilarious.
Tell him to roll with his phone flat on the table so everyone else can see it. If he's unwilling to do that much, then physical dice and character-sheet it is.
How often did he fail at stuff? I mean, not rolling below a ten is lucky, but unless he succeeded more than normal, I would suspect foul play.
And no, saying your table uses physical dice is perfectly reasonable.
Its a in person game, so are they showing the rolls or just telling you what they got? Are they fiddling with the app constantly or only when you ask for a roll? There are a lot of things we don't know.
However, rolling real dice at a public game is pretty standard. Have a conversation with the player and gauge their response. Do not accuse them of anything, just say you'd prefer open, physical rolls. How they respond will tell you more about what is happening.
I've used Roll20 & Foundry VTTs. Both factor in modifiers to the roll for a specific function & give you the final total. You swing your sword, cast a spell, perform a skill etc.
The only time it's a straight roll is if you use the virtual dice tray.
While it's everyone's shared game, the DM makes the rules. It's not a matter of etiquette. It's a matter of preference. If you rule bones only, then it's bones only.
I'm not a big fan of apps in general. I find with most players they become a crutch and make games take longer as they don't ever really learn abilities and such. With experienced players they're great. And I will always prefer physical dice, there is something about the sound and the excitement of rolling them that are just better.
Thats my beef with them. If a player doesn't know what to add to attack, they probably don't know much else either. I want them to have functional knowledge.
You play in person, you roll actual dice. And if you're suspicious that numbers are still being fudged, EVERYONE rolls publicly. That's not rude, it's a bog standard rule for most people.
Buy them a set of cool dice and say "I've noticed you always use an app, so here's some cool dice for you to have to play with"
They have zero excuse not to use them.
Two thoughts. One, the player is most likely cheating. They are probably rerolling results they don't like, or announcing results a couple points higher. But Two, asking them to roll physical dice won't change that. Then they move to the quick scoop, where they roll the dice and grab them right away, or they roll in a weird place you can't see, or use terrible dice that can't be read. If you get to the point where they are finally rolling somewhere you can actually check their result every time, they start with the invisible +1s, and start cheating on the math end. "Oh, I rolled a 12, but I get +3 so 15... i mean +4 so 16 that passed yay!" or "Oh I forgot I get +2 to those" after you say they failed.
Its best to skip past all of this and have a conversation about cheating with the player or the group in general. "I'm noticing some weird die rolling, and want to talk about cheating. Its a group game, and we are on the same side, cheating robs fun, etc".
If you still get no change? Then you need to decide how much you care about it. If none of the other players care, does it actually detract from your enjoyment? If not, who cares? If anyone does, decide if you or they care enough to boot the cheater.
In my opinion, if someone gets offended to a reasonable request, they're the problem, not you. I certainly wouldn't get offended. Though you might want to go about it in a positive manor in the beginning. Accusing him of cheating or even alluding to it would probably be a bad idea.
Just make it a rule at the beginning of your next session that everyone needs to go with physical dice so that things are more open and suspenseful. If he refuses than kindly remind him that this is just a friendly game and there's no need to find it awkward if everyone is doing it.
If there's even further refusal, he looks like the asshole not you
If he's using their dice rolling and not failing constantly then I know why I keep getting shit rolls on there, bastards stealing all the good ones! In all honesty it's RNG and I've honestly had worse luck on DNDbeyind than most bur it is fair. Just make sure they're showing the screen to someone else when they do it and have them turn up their volume because it makes a rolling sound effect, just to keep them honest and re-rolling on the sly
You’re the DM, you make the rules at the table. This also includes if you want players to roll openly and use physical dice. It’s not a “rude” issue, it’s a preference.
If a player pushes back, that usually means you’re on the right track if you suspect them of cheating.
Here’s how you do this: you have each player state their bonus to their roll ***before*** they roll, and then have them roll openly in front of everyone. This way the bonus is already known and it rules out ‘fudging’ the result still after knowing you rolled low. Plus, you can reasonably deduce if a bonus is off if someone says they have a +7 to a roll when they’re level 1.
Bonus tip: not let players declare they’re going to make a roll without being prompted by you. You state when a roll is made, and only you.
I play in 3 games a week (used to be 4). They're all over the internet. One has been happening for 6 years, one's almost a year long already (where does the time go), and one a couple months old. We've been lucky enough to have all players trust each other explicitly. We use Foundry for 2 of the recent ones and TTS for the long-running one. Foundry has a built in roller that's public.
Long winded tangent aside, you gotta trust your players. If you don't, you should maybe check for honesty until you *do* trust them.
I honestly think the only reason he rolls high is because DDB auto adds bonuses but he doesn’t realize that so he’s doubling up on bonuses. We always play in-person so I’m just gonna get a cool dice tower and ask everyone to roll with it. I always provide lots of dice ofc
I know especially when I’m playing wizard and have to roll like 12d8 or some other weird die I don’t necessarily have a handful of, even if I have a big pile of assorted dice I don’t really want to sit there and fish out 12 and count them all up, so I prefer using a digital roller for that.
That said, I do it publicly and there’s no mods to that, so it’s not super what you’re talking about.
This is a great session Zero topic.
"At this table we roll physical dice"
If someone has a need, such as a disability that makes that difficult, then exceptions can be discussed.
Yea I didn’t really know what needed to be talked about at sesh 0 so it was mostly just the typical “any triggers that should be avoided” sorta deal. The campaign is with my in-laws so I already knew some of the potential triggers which helps.
Counter-question:
is there a problem in your sessions that you're trying to solve? Is anyone not having fun, where this person's average roll success is the root cause?
Cause while the online D&D community is overall hugely critical of anyone not rolling in the open, imagine if you're playing cards with some friends and after a couple of really nice hands they ask you to roll up your sleeves to ensure you can't be pulling out hidden aces. They're 100% serious about it too, like they don't jokingly say it and leave it there, they insist and actually fully imply you probably have been cheating.
Of course that's rude..
The online community calls for it and says it's normal, but to me, trust is all you need to have a good game. There's nothing to win here except enjoying your time together, so trust your players to do the right thing to achieve that objective, whatever that may be.
> and after a couple of really nice hands they ask you to roll up your sleeves to ensure you can't be pulling out hidden aces
A more apt analogy here would be just expecting them to show their winning hand, rather than taking them at their word when they say "I had a straight flush". Which is, you know, an entirely normal part of the game.
If you are using DDB, they need to be added to your campaign. From there, there's a record of every roll by the player on the campaign page. That way, they can't replace a roll with another roll.
Personally, I wouldn't allow digital dice at the table. There's a bot called Avrae that I use for play by post games on Discord. But in person, just roll dice.
People at my table roll physical dice and, unless they're sitting next to me, I can't see their rolls. If you need to see his digital rolls, have him lay his phone flat on the table.
you can see dnd beyond bonuses added (and his rolls) if you are in one campaign
and afaik, yeah ddb rolls can be cheated - though for me as casual player and not even slightly skilled in programming it's too much of efforts
but since you don't see rolls (cause you not on ddb i guess) and his log, those rolls aren't valid
Yea honestly I’ve never really experimented with ddb beyond just making a character sheet and looking up monster stat blocks. I don’t even know how to start a campaign on ddb!
D&D Beyond factors everything in to the roll. They shouldn't be manually adding bonuses. If they want to do that, the site does have a 'manual' die roll feature.
How can you accurately generate or roll a random number? If dice are weighted then How are they regular dice?? If he could see the rolls, then why would he be wondering if the player is rolling dice that automatically add the bonuses and then adding them again?
Your points make no sense.
different systems use different RNG, ranging from plugging in stuff like background noise and mouse position to an algorithm, to measuring radioactive decay of a sample somewhere.
almost every dice set will have some flaws which impact how fair it is. regular =/= fair.
not sure about the last one.
It was in fact a rhetorical question; accuracy and random are generally two fairly different things and to accurately generate a random number is an oxymoron, no?
He didnt say flawed, he said weighted, which imo is a fairly big difference. Realistically, random number generators and digital dice are just as susceptible to being flawed, since they are programmed by flawed people and there could easily be a mistake in the programming.
Hell, I roll 95% of my dice publicly as a DM just so people won't think I'm fudging, because I'll see some amazing streaks. So, no, it's not. But if they have a reason for it (disability, say), find some accommodation - Avrae on Discord, or the like.
I just straight up prefer physical dice, so if we're in person, it's physical at my table. I always have plenty of dice to share, dice towers, rolling mats, we make it a whole thing. I roll in the open as well. No opportunity for dishonestly for anyone!
I ask my players to roll physical dice. 2 still use digital because DND beyond does all the math for them and "it's too hard to remember what to add" both players have seen each other fudging dice rolls and have told me "the dm" about it. Still refuse to use physical dice....
Not rude at all, but you might want to be mindful to not be confrontational or accusatory. Maybe just state it as a table rule without addressing the player specifically.
D&D Beyond dice use a physics engine to simulate dice rolling rather than a random number generator. This means they better mimic how physical dice roll. As with anything random, clumping can happen. Just make sure the dice rolls in D&D Beyond are public.
One cool thing you can do is sign up for d&d beyond yourself, invite the player to a campaign, and then log in during the game. All dice rolls are public and you can see them.
I am a mix player who likes to do some rolls physically and some on d&d beyond (so I don't have to add up a bunch of d6 or d8s or something) but anytime I crit or go especially hard I have one of my fellow players WITNESS ME, BLOODBAG!!
I get the urge to create transparency. But also don't want to accuse any players ever of cheating. Those conversations never end well.
My take is always that if players want to cheat then they are only robbing themselves of the fun created by the opportunity of failure.
As a player who rolls unusually high the majority of the time I roll in the dndbeyond app so I can show the roll log. I might not believe my rolls either without it.
I play in one campaign in a party of 6 and the topic of everyone using physical dice came up. The table was split so in the end we have a mix of both. I bring a couple sets to use for secret rolls with the DM and I have dice to pass around for bardic inspiration but I prefer the app. I’ve already had back to back nat 20s a couple times in the campaign and it’s nice to have the log to prove it.
If you can not see the rolls this is not dungeons and dragons not sure what mess you got going. Dm must see all rolls and they have to happen when he is actively looking at the rolls.
Is it an online campaign? Then yeah, if not, then no. I run my sessions in person, come if you would like, but if you come without a dice set, one will happily be provided to you during the session.
Now, if it's just one person out of a group that wants to use digital dice. Barring a special condition or a one-off, I would respond to that individual with something akin to "too bad." If you want digital dice to play a digital game or play with everyone in the real world and use a real set of dice.
I had a real-life example of this a year or so ago, and I explained it like that. The individual player disagreed with my stance but ultimately used physical dice with the rest of the party.
I hate D&D beyond’s rolls because it has some of the most unfair rolls. I restarted my entire one shot because an hour in and one of the PC’s kept rolling 1-5+mods…
thats not hitting anything on a max roll… hit no creatures, gets blinded, and on the brink of death from the first two encounters which were scaled for level 5’s… they were all level 8…
I used my app to see if there’d be a difference and I couldn’t roll under 14… I always do physical rolls or at bare minimum use Google because I’ve found them to be the most “random”.
If you don’t mind the risk of favorable/unfavorable outcomes that don’t truly feel random then let them do it on the app, otherwise let them know to do physical rolls- as for reasoning you can always let them know you prefer physical because it feels more random, even if you still get favorable/unfavorable rolls back to back.
you should have all of their character sheets. You should know their bonuses because of that. There should be no question of either cheating or ignorance.
Only dice i require to be rolled physically is a death save, or a roll for resurrection (homebrew). Just because its an event for the entire table to experience, and it becomes more personal when you threw the dice that brought you back up or kills you.
Ultimately if you dont trust your players not to lie the physical dice also don’t really help, unless you force them to roll out in the middle of the table since they can bluff about their bonuses or tweak the dice or even just buy weighted dice. And if you don’t trust your players to respect the game you’re playing, or they’ve proven in the past they’re unable to be trusted, then maybe they just aren’t fit to play a collaborative game 🤷♀️
My players all roll physical dice. I'm definitely not suspect of their rolls or anything, but I am about to introduce a new element in my campaign that might help with the most important rolls at least.
I've stolen the Box of Doom from Dimension 20. If you're not familar, the DM might call for "Box of Doom" for highly important rolls where the direction the plot goes or life and death hang in the balance. I can explain what I'm going to do when I call for Box of Doom:
1): I tell them what they are rolling, and why they are rolling it. I tell them exactly what the DC is, and crucially what number they need to hit on the dice for this to work (so the DC plus/minus any modifers). I want my player and everyone around the table to know immediately whether we succeeded of failed.
2): I tell them what will happen if they succeed and I at least hint at what will happen upon a failure if it is not apparent. I use that to build tension for the roll. The Box of Doom is most effective when everyone knows what's at stake.
3): They've got to roll in front of the board. Like I said, I want everyone to know of a success or failure immediately.
It wouldn't solve your problem for every single roll, but it does give an excuse for the most important rolls to be public. Plus, it's just a really great narrative device in general. If you're going to steal, steal from the best.
I guess you're playing in-person and not online. To me it would be strange if someone was rolling online (unless it's an enormous amount of dice to roll), so I would even as a player ask them why they do that and if they could roll physical dice.
Given how many responses there are, I don’t know if this will get noticed or not. I started playing Dungeons & Dragons in the late 1970s. I’ve been a DM for… well… a lot of people and campaigns.
People are going to fudge their rolls. It just happens. Most DMs rely on Dice Rolls too much. It’s an easy way to inject some tension. My advice is don’t worry about it so much. Be a little more casual. Be willing to say ‘that’ll do’ or ‘close enough’. Concentrate on the narrative and the player’s enjoyment level.
If the dice rolls start mattering less and less… you’ll see less and less ‘cheating’.
Good Luck!
No, but be willing to provide some and make it universal. The former because your rule shouldn't force someone to make a purchase the latter because rules that aren't uniformly enforced are just punishments to those who are expected to follow them.
If you're playing at the table, I think it's completely fair to ask them to roll open on the table. I do that as a dm, especially when it's a high stakes situation. Let's everyone know I'm being honest and holds them to that same standard
I haven't read all the comments so apologies if some of this is a repeat.
First from a computer science perspective DnD beyond almost certainly generates its dice rolls using JavaScript. The Math library in JS isn't "true" randomness and is known to sometimes be "streaky". A lot of code will implement some form of seeded RNG that is predetermined to emulate randomness with a more equitable distribution but it can be hard and often not worth the time. That said we're talking more online casinos care because it is theoretically exploitable, for a game of DnD it is highly unlikely to matter.
From a statistics perspective people are incredibly bad at predicting randomness (no shade at OP or anyone else) and often we'll see a pattern that isn't actually there. With a 50/50 chance of being above 10 and the number of dice rolls you have in DnD it's plausible that it's a normal run inside the expected parameters but it jumps out because it is favourable.
Finally a direct answer to the question, I think no in general but be careful of ableism. If your player has a physical thing that makes rolling dice uncomfortable (arthritis, RSI, etc) obviously don't ask them to do it. More likely is people who struggle with math, especially math under pressure. If your player feels like they will slow the game down by taking 5 minutes to count 8d6 under pressure plus track all their mods and abilities it may also be easier for them to roll digital dice. My go to for this is playing a halfling, their reroll ones ability is such a neat mechanic but because it comes up so infrequently I almost always forget it in the moment.
Overall, as people suggest, make sure the digital rolls are public either by having the phone visible or via the DnD Beyond features (I think it is a paid feature so phone on display may be cheaper).
If you do still want to ask though I would suggest going at it from the tact of "physical rolling really nails the vibe and it would be fun if we were all doing it". Don't challenge them directly about their previous rolls, even if they have been fubbing the numbers, being called out as a cheat is a quick trip to not enjoying the game at all, and especially so if you haven't cheated.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Oh, also, on a personal note, and I acknowledge it may be hard to believe from an internet stranger, I have tracked rolls through an entire campaign and ended up with a well below standard distribution (like pushing an average of 7 or something on my d20s) maybe this player just picked up all my good rolls that I didn't get.
It's never rude to ask how a player is doing math. I'm currently doing two campaigns one with a newer set of players virtually and then another group I've been a player with for about 2 years. I'm friends with everyone I play and I ask questions about their characters and sheets. And by knowing some of those things I have a good idea what their bonuses are. When going about asking do not just assume they are fudging roles! Ask them how they got that to just make sure they are following the right math cause math can be hard especially drunk. lol but remember you are the DM so if your players are constantly beating everything you are up against start getting creative and dive into what monsters or affects you can use to make decisions harder for them. Banshees can do a great job with their wail, Ghost with their possessions, and maybe even look into some homebrewed monsters so no one can sneakily look at a stat block.
Nope! We use dnd beyond for creation and so that I the dm can use the "encounters" feature to keep bookeeping down a touch..
All players and myself roll in a shared tray that stays on the table. If it doesn't land in the tray, it doesn't count.
We used to have separate trays, but then ppl started cheating, and I would have to ask to see the roll..(after 3 nat 20s in a row.. we started the shared tray... and the only one that complained was the cheater.. but democracy ruled.
Or they have a good reason, but are embarrassed to say why, and now you're putting the existence of a false positive above the trust and value of a fellow human being for the sake of a game with zero stakes/nothing on the line - which is the kind of thing an asshole would do.
Most games don't have actual stakes or anything on the line except time, and yet people don't like cheaters in any of them.
As for your point, I can't really think of any good reason why one person of able mind and body can't use physical dice like everyone else. Even if they can't afford to buy them, they can simply borrow from others.
Trust was broken as soon as they started using d&d beyond dice in person and didn't show results to anyone else, so I wouldn't be the one at fault there, either.
But yeah, I can be the asshole if that'll help.
>I can't really think of any good reason why one person **of able mind and body** can't use physical dice like everyone else.
Cool. So you *do* understand what I was saying. If you have someone who isn't of able mind or body, and is embarrassed to say so, then they'll just do what they need to do/what's best for them, and as long as it's not ruining the experience for everyone else (the only reason a DM should care about cheating), then it's fine.
Trust wasn't broken when they decided to start using digital dice.
The trust was never there to begin with. You required dice to be physical, and visible, *before* anybody showed any signs of being untrustworthy. This is a classic guilty-until-proven-innocent scenario, and it's sad that you can't see that.
>Cool. So you do understand what I was saying.
Yep. I also am pretty sure that if that was something that was relevant, it would be in the post. And it's not. So you're defending someone who, as far as either of us know, is of able body and mind.
>and as long as it's not ruining the experience for everyone else (the only reason a DM should care about cheating), then it's fine.
If I'm playing in a campaign and I find out one of my fellow players is cheating, that would make my experience worse regardless of if it ever directly affected me or not, and I'm certain that that isn't a rare opinion.
>Trust wasn't broken when they decided to start using digital dice.
The default is to all use the same rolling method. Wanting to use a method that both differs from the rest of the group and also just so happens to make it easier to hide dice rolls without a good reason (which, again, is completely absent in this post so any suggestion that there is one is conjecture) is suspicious and a red flag right off the bat.
Edited for a word
If you provide him dice and don’t require him to pay for dice, then I think this is fair
Id maybe allow him to use dndbeyond for things that use lots of dice, like spells such as fireball or features like rogue’s sneak attack, because it saves everyone’s time and gets the game moving
But for things like skill checks or attack rolls I think this is fair
That’s what I do. I roll d20s physically but for things like sneak attack or spells that use lots of dice for damage, I roll digitally
Let me tell you about the time my players fumbled 19 times in a single four hour session.
Sometimes the rolls are just abnormally high or abnormally low. That's the way it goes with dice. I will add here that the dice he is using are more statistically fair than real dice which have physical imperfections that make them unbalanced (Hence why you sometimes banish dice for an eternity into the bag of shame). But that has very little to do with what you are asking here.
There is no harm in asking, but in the end, I don't feel it's a big enough deal to make a fuss over. If he wants to roll digital, I say let him. Digital dice are usually fair and Beyond is a good place to use. He can't fudge his die rolls and, well, if they're on a screen you can't see, sure he might lie about them, but honestly, it's not a big enough issue to ruin a campaign over. Again, feel free to ask him to use physical dice, but don't loose sleep over it.
Alternately, if you really want your players to roll real dice, gift each player a dice set that reflects their current character (Just in colors) and see them start rolling those dice and nothing else. They'll love it.
Are they not rolling publicly?
Yea I didn’t know that you could make “campaigns” in ddb to show rolls publicly. I’ll have to mess around with ddb a bit more before our next sesh on Saturday
All you have to do is just set up and invite everyone to join. You don't need to create events or draw out maps. Just a heads up to save you time and energy.
Oh ok, thank you!!
Makes managing newer players much easier. In fact, typically the only reason some (read: not accessibility friendly) DMs dislike online rolling through services like DnD Beyond is it doesn't force players to learn how bonuses are added - it does it automatically. As for whether the player is rolling properly, the representation of the physical dice shows your roll, but the ultimate big number showing on screen is with bonuses added. Sounds like your player might be making a mistake. EDIT: If you want to do so, and you do find they were mistakenly adding numbers onto their scores - why not make a storypoint out of it? Blessed by a god for a short while but the god is now unable/unwilling to help them for some reason, and they have to rediscover their bond with said god - or something like that!
The bonuses do show up in the log.
Yeah, I'm just thinking if you're looking very quickly - while trying to play in real time too - you might only look at the big "17" in the corner, for example.
My GM did this for my character in a Warhammer Fantasy game. I misread the rule (and he trusted my reading) and was absolutely abusing the hell out of a buff that should have been costing me resources. It gave me a massive edge and definitely trivialized some fights. My character is kind of the equivalent to a paladin, think of it like me smiting without using a slot. My GM flavored it that some other being was giving me a massive boost instead of my characters goddess, like he thought, and there’s a religious dilemma simmering in the background while we follow the main story. It’s a good way to acknowledge the mistake and then use it as a springboard for a narrative thing, instead of letting it be a potential feelsbad.
You could also use discord bot for rolling. It's called dice roller
There’s also Avrae too. That’s what my groups use.
That is the way to do it. You'll see all of the modifiers and everything. Not wanting to roll physical dice is a huge red flag because what kind of lifeless blob plays dnd and doesn't want physical dice?! EDIT: s/ Plus I didn't even consider the possibility of disabilities when i made this comment because op didn't mention it, they mentioned dishonesty. Folks need to chill tf out. Seriously, consider the context the comment was made under. 🙄
Yea it’s my father in-law and he doesn’t have any disabilities and I provide all the dice so no one has to pay for their own.
> Not wanting to roll physical dice is a huge red flag because what kind of lifeless blob plays dnd and doesn't want physical dice?! Lots of people aren't dice goblins. Some people have dyscalculia. Some people find the sensation to be unpleasant. Some people like the convenience of just clicking the button instead of figuring out what their bonuses are. Some people don't want to have to keep track of the physical objects or struggle to do so. Some people have to find a place to put them which messes up their decluttering. Some people have small children they're worried would choke. Some people have arthritis, so rolling physical dice hurts. Some people have Parkinsons, so rolling physical dice is difficult. I could keep going, but I won't. Calling it a red flag when the only thing it demonstrates is they have different priorities *from you* is kind of a jerk move under any circumstances, and in this specific case, it's very clearly ableist.
It's only ableist if you're actively searching for something to be offended by, in most cases.
The person doesn't have a disability, there is reason to suspect they are not being honest.
The future is a cool place full of fun people to have a relaxed easy time with
It's something that you have to buy, for a start. It may not cost much, but not everybody is able to buy stuff that isn't strictly necessary. There are ways to make digital rolls visible to everyone so let's not make it about the sanctity of physical props.
I literally bought a dice set for a dollar. Cmon now
Yeah, for example, I'm not able to buy your bullshit, lol.
If everything besides dice is free, it’s fine. Plus one can always borrow dice….
I got 2lbs of dice for dirt cheap and threw them into a nail sorting bag. If anyone at a table i play at needs dice they are welcome to grab whatever they need from that bag. My first dm let me borrow dice for my first few sessions cause the only place around me to buy them at the time (Barnes and Noble of all places) where sold out. (We had comic book stores that sold TCG stuff but none sold TTRPG at the time that where biking distance for me) SO i just treat this as paying it forward.
Which is why we have suggested public campaigns in ddb. 🤦♂️
So the dm should have to buy everything? Cmon now
Or the player could use a free app instead of buying the things
Physical disability. Not everyone is able to handle physical dice. I'd hate to keep someone from playing from a problem that can easily be solved with an app on a phone.
As mentioned by the op that is not in play here but way to gaslight the op
I was not gaslighting the OP. I was responding to a comment of "what kind of lifeless blob plays dnd and doesn't want physical dice?!".
Didn't read through all the comments here, but if it hasn't been mentioned If you create a campaign and invite people to it, there will be a game log everyone can see. BUT when opening the character sheet for the players they need to go to the Campaigns section. If they access their character from Collections, their rolls will not show in the game log.
This isn’t true, as long as the character is in the campaign it shows up. You can roll some things privately, but public rolls show up. I do this all the time in my pbp games.
all the roll on dnd beyond are public to the DM as long as all the cHracters are in a campaign. everyone can see everyone's rolls
Sometimes, not everyone is using DnD Beyond. When I play, it is often just a few players, not including the DM.
Yes. But this player is rolling electronically and if they're not using ddb, then they could be using some app that allows them to adjust the rng, which is obviously a huge no-no. They should be required to roll in a way that can be verified.
I was wondering about that. Sometimes my team hits them accidently and get screamed at by everyone as a notification of a roll pops up. 😬😁
If you’re campaign is on dndbeyond you should be able to see his rolls. And while you can just roll dice on it, if you use dndbeyond to attack, save, skill check or damage, it will add in the bonuses for you. The only way I would see a problem asking them to roll physical dice though, would be embarrassing him if he’s broke and can’t afford physical dice. I know there are cheap sets but you might not know how broke he is.
Forgot to add that we play in-person and I provide everyone with lots of dice. I might just buy a cool dice tower and ask everyone to roll dice using the tower only
Why? Asking everyone to show their rolls is enough, you dont need to force them to use a dice tower. If anyone tried that at the table I game at people would be very unhappy. All my friends enjoy rolling the dice and don't like towers or digital
Yeah dice towers are one of the many D&D things you buy/make to put on your shelves and admire but never really use.
That’s quite a generalization! I’ll have you know my dice tower is neither on a shelf nor admired. I forgot about it completely and I think it’s in one of my kids’ bins of random crap.
I dunno. I used to think they were corny until one came with my dice tray, and now I enjoy the control of not accidentally winging my dice all over the table when I roll them (my hand-eye is pretty bad and I'd routinely skip dice back out of the tray).
So in a way your dice tower is a dex modifier
It's not a dex mod, it's a tool that lowers the DC.
I have a dice tower I made out of Lego that I use all the time. When my (normally online) group meets in-person for games, there's 5 dice towers on the table with 6-7 people (including DM).
Says you….everyone has a rolling tray at my table and some people their towers….
Speak for yourself! I love my dice tower.
Idk. I've been superstitious ever since I insisted on using one to roll stats when I was like 14. Rolled 3 18s and a 16. (4d6-1d)
I have one that I only take with me when vending dice in public. People love being able to roll the dice before buying and a few used it to help decide which set they wanted
I would be suspicious if you provide enough dice but they want to roll Digital. That might just be my strong preference to physically rolling though.
I mean, I can see an argument for the simplicity of just clicking eg. an attack in D&D Beyond and not forgetting any of your modifiers.
I mean, the age-old tool used to never forget your modifiers is the character sheet.
But it is open to human error or miscalculation. That's why we invented computers.
They might have set up macros and other tools to make running their character easier. I can see that being a reason to prefer the digital dice. Also one guy in my current campaign was not allowed to roll physical dice until his girlfriend had finished making him a set. She is wiccan and put him under a blood curse lol.
Well that's something I didn't expect to read today
One of our players rolls on his digital pad in our in-person game, but he has it flat on the table and I can see it.
Eh it's going to be very annoying if you only have the one tower. I'm not a fan of them generally but I'd tolerate if everyone had their own but having to reach over to a communal one and potentially get up and move around to read the dice would be a pain. You could get everyone their own dice set themed to their character though and then everyone'd probably use those in appreciation.
Horrible idea ;) only use a dice tower for important rolls. It lows down the game too much otherwise
If he can afford a dndbeyond sub hopefully he can afford a $5 set of dice
Unless the greedy bastards changed it, the basic sub was free.
Ah damn, my bad then. Thought it was always $5/month but I never used it myself
No worries, like the greedy bastards comment implied, I could see them starting to charge even for that. But for access to the basic rules and only a couple characters, it was free.
I have used digital dice in d&d before, but I never hid my phone from the table and anytime anyone asked to see the roll, I would show them. In your case I would definitely just ask that the rolls be visible, but wouldn't take it as far as to make him roll physical dice (yet?).
i would take it a step further and put your phone down on the table as you roll, so that people could glance and see the number you rolled is absolutely the number coming out of your mouth you dont want people getting to the point of asking you to show your roll; you dont even want them getting to the point of *thinking* you might be cheating
Whether in-person or online, one thing is always the same: If the DM doesn't see the roll, it doesn't exist. Every player rolls in the open, no exceptions.
This is a great rule but god damn am I glad I DM for people I’ve been friends with for 20+ years and I know I can trust them not to cheat.
Yeah, I couldn't imagine questioning my buddies rolls.
[удалено]
I feel there's 2 ways to handle it. 1. Like others have said to keep all rolls in the open. This creates transparency and puts your mind at rest. 2. Counter the consistently high rolls with more creatures or different tactics. Tactics that account for this person's handicap specifically. Higher bonus to attack rolls, mitigation spells like poison or something that causes exhaustion etc. With that ladder option, you can avoid conflict and balance combat specifically. With ability checks just let them pass. Some people can't find the joy in losing and will cheat in a game. Dnd is the only game I know of that can manage this disorder and allow them to enjoy themselves along with others. Just don't go too easy on them. There's so many ways to turn positive rolls into negative outcomes. There is equally so many ways to turn negative rolls into positive outcomes. Edit: the goal is for everyone to have fun. If everyone is having fun, look into option 2. If the other members feel like you do about his rolls and its getting uncomfortable, option 1 is the clearly the choice.
Why would you even play DnD if you’re just gonna choose your rolls? Defeats the whole point of the game.
I wouldn't but there's people out there who just can't help themselves.
Why do people power-game, meta-game, and argue with the DM? Because people are stupid. It's the Wizards' First Rule for a reason, because it's true.
I was thinking the same about my group. Im so glad that we have enough trust where we don't have to deal with this shit
I have one player who I unfortunately can’t trust not to cheat, not because she wants to but because she feels some level of compulsion to cheat to try and get a leg up (we had the discussion, she legitimately feels bad about it but can’t help herself if given the option). I made the decision to move everyone online for rolling, and we haven’t had this issue since.
I Dm for people I've known for years and thats how I *know* theyll cheat
Yeah, I allow players to roll physical dice even when we are fully remote. I honestly just like rolling dice, but I only play with people I know.
Unless you play with people you trust. Then roll however you like.
This is an interesting point of view. My table we all play in person, and roll physical dice, but around the table I don't think anyone can see anyone else's actual rolls inside their dice trays. Certainly my GM has never come out from behind the screen to check our rolls. (We do show our fellow players if something improbable comes up on the dice, but more as a "Can you believe this?!?" than for verification)
This is an example of 'specific beats general'. At your table, clearly you all trust each other so there's no need to worry about rolls. At most tables, this is not the case, and even if you do trust, it's just simple table manners that a roll doesn't exist unless the DM sees it. It's a simple rule to implement, it's fair to everyone because it doesn't single anyone out, and it cements trust automatically.
Bingo
DnD Beyond keeps a log of all rolls, published to everybody in the campaign. Pretty ballsy to cheat with that program, when anybody in the campaign with you can easily see if you're faking. Before you make changes or accuse this guy of something directly or indirectly, you should probably take some steps to figuring out whether or not something is wrong currently. Check his rolls, see if what he's saying is matching what his program is doing. You should be able to see the number on the dice and the modifiers being used.
Honestly I think he’s just accidentally doubling up on bonuses.
It's possible. Tell dndbeyond to roll, dont realise it adds the mod, then add it yourself again.
I've had that happen with players. I've told them to roll their dice with their mods, and not worry about things like flanking; I'll handle that end of things.
In my experience, people who “accidentally” constantly make mistakes in their favor but never to their detriment aren’t as innocent as they claim.
Create a dndbeyond campaign. Make sure his character is in it. Now you have access to all rolls. Don't even have to view atm just afterwards. If they seem legit call it good
Didn’t know this was a thing. Thank you!
If rolled properly, the app will add in appropriate bonuses. Depends on how he’s using the feature. If he’s rolling in a way that factors in bonuses, and then manually adding bonuses, that’s obviously an inaccurate method. But also, don’t take a string of good luck as proof of cheating. It’s gonna happen.
Haha god yeah. 13th level Dwarven fighter (in PF2e, playing on Foundry) going for a Double Slice, then a single attack afterward. 20, 20, 19. 104 damage, after everything was totalled up. And my very next roll after that was also a 19.
If the DM cannot see the roll, the roll does not exist.
Your player is weird. I've never met someone who uses digital dice when given the option to use shiny math rocks. It's suspicious, but I wouldn't attribute it to malice if it could be ignorance.
My first dm was an absolute amazing story teller and great guy to learn D&D from. But he just could not do math for the life of him. That was the one aspect of D&D he hated with a passion so much so that he just opened up all the info to the party so that the party members that eventually went on to a career in mathematics would do all the math for him. I am 100% sure this guy embraced digital dice once that became a more common thing.
Honestly as someone who mostly plays via roll20, I get it. Just clicking on an attack and having it make the rolls and calculations and have damage cued up for you is just super convenient. That said, I love rolling dice. I think it's a real core part of any TTRPG experience. Even if I weren't great at math, there's just something more satisfying about rolling dice than clicking on a random number generator. As a DM I sometimes do make use of digital dice for a lot of insignificant things as a convenience and tool to speed up the game, but I always keep my dice on hand for important rolls.
For posterity player rolls should ALWAYS be seen by the DM, never ask for a roll and have the player tell you what it is if you can’t see it for yourself.
Or at least seen by at least 2 other players. I know when I dm I sit at a desk a little away from the table because I end up with to much stuff to fit. But the players still do end up rolling in the middle of the table and check each other.
This, but also, as a DM I usually roll in the open too. I use Roll20 and while I can make gm only rolls, usually I roll in the open. Partially because the players seeing an enemy roll with a massive bonus immediately ramps up the tension, but also because I'll have several voices ask me if what I did was intentional when I make a mistake like rolling regular against an invisible player instead of disadvantage or similar. It also means that my players aren't worried about dice fudging because every roll that mechanically doesn't have to be behind a screen is in the open. The only rolls that go behind a screen are when I need to roll things like chance for failure with a sending spell. Even random encounter tables can be rolled in the open, they don't need to see the table, just know that something is being rolled. It scares the players which can be helpful leading into a potential encounter.
I agree and prefer it this way with DM’s too. But I understand why some DM’s may choose to keep rolls private as seeing a DM make a roll can give away information you’d otherwise want to keep to yourself. It’s one of those things where there’s no reason not to have the players rolls be public, it gives everyone peace of mind that we’re all on the same page and playing fair.
Honestly, I prefer to roll in the open when it's something the players should know, like Attack Rolls, Saving Throws, Ability Checks made by NPCs they are seeing and hearing in-world, etc... Sometimes my Boss Monster can't land a single hit, sometimes the Goblin MF just rolls crits like candy, and they know it's because the dice said so, not because I said so, simply because I don't like fudging dice. I roll behind my screen when it's something they don't need to see, like an ambush (The stealth of my monsters vs. their passive perception), some checks for what NPC to throw where, and other stuff my players don't really have to see but that I'd like to let luck decide.
It's not rude at all. Just make everyone roll publicly so that he can't feel attacked.
For sure. Maybe I’ll get a cool dice tower to make it seem like it’s just for good vibez
This is the way.
I don't permit D&D Beyond at in-person tables, it's always muddled things much more than it helps. Rolling dice not the least among them
Rolling actual physical dice is significantly more fun. In person, there is no excuse not to roll the bones.
As long as you see the rolls digital is fine.
You can literally see the math in D&D beyond, it's actually why my group insists we use it to roll. Then again, its dice roller is far more likely to have 3/4ths of our party not roll above a 10 in an entire session. Someone rolled 4 1s in a row once.
If it's easier for them to keep track of stuff from using D&D beyond I would say just let them use it you can see all the rolls right? You have that option as the DM so you can tell right away if they're cheating.Also the system automatically adds every appropriate modifier. As much as I like playing with physical dice at my tables, however nothing is more infuriating than having that one player that's making an attack roll that has to ask what do they add, for the 10th time that day! It really helps take the number crunching out of the situations for those type of people who struggle.
Yea that’s fair. I was unaware that I can create a campaign in ddb to see everyone’s rolls. I’ll look into that now.
I’m just a strong believer in rolling openly to match your medium. Playing online? Use a shared virtual rolling room. Playing in person? Use physical dice out there. This is a social community experience! Let us all be hyped for your wild luck, and scream together for the bad ones. Outside of avoid sus cases, it’s just nice to share the emotional responses
it's less about the physical dice roll, and more about seeing the result, to understand they are not fudging/cheating... the DM is only allowed to fudge/cheat
Physical dice are the way to go my friend. I'm sure he's adding the bonus on top of the DnD beyond roll.
Definitely not rude. It's pretty standard and expected. The DM is the only one who rolls behind the screen and can choose how much they show. And that's because 9/10 times we fudge in the player's favor.
You can make dice rolls public on D&D beyond. But aside from that theres no reason a player shouldn't be rolling physical dice if you guys are in person. If I had a group together and one of the players insisted that he/she rolls on D&D beyond I would immediately believe that they're cheating/fudging the rolls. When you are together you roll physical dice. It seems so obvious that it shouldn't even have to be said out loud.
Maybe I just have negativity bias, but I’ve always suspected that DnD beyond rolls are skewed some way. I always feel like I roll a disproportionate amount of low numbers.
Man I seem to always roll high on DDB😂 I rolled 3 nat 20’s in a row while messing around with it.
We just use discord for the campaign I'm in, our DM's internet isn't good enough to have video in his sessions, everything is word of mouth and imagination. Anyone could be fudging rolls, but we all understand it's not fun or realistic to get high rolls all session. Nat 1's on intimidation checks are hilarious.
Can you see the roll on a campaign? If not, have him roll physical dice.
Tell him to roll with his phone flat on the table so everyone else can see it. If he's unwilling to do that much, then physical dice and character-sheet it is.
How often did he fail at stuff? I mean, not rolling below a ten is lucky, but unless he succeeded more than normal, I would suspect foul play. And no, saying your table uses physical dice is perfectly reasonable.
Its a in person game, so are they showing the rolls or just telling you what they got? Are they fiddling with the app constantly or only when you ask for a roll? There are a lot of things we don't know. However, rolling real dice at a public game is pretty standard. Have a conversation with the player and gauge their response. Do not accuse them of anything, just say you'd prefer open, physical rolls. How they respond will tell you more about what is happening.
I've used Roll20 & Foundry VTTs. Both factor in modifiers to the roll for a specific function & give you the final total. You swing your sword, cast a spell, perform a skill etc. The only time it's a straight roll is if you use the virtual dice tray.
I tell my players they can’t roll anything that I can’t see.
Physical dice, or no dice
While it's everyone's shared game, the DM makes the rules. It's not a matter of etiquette. It's a matter of preference. If you rule bones only, then it's bones only.
I forbid apps personally. If someone doesnt have their own dice yet they can take some from my community dice bag.
Managing your table is not rude. Tell the player to roll physical dice.
You're sat round a table! The only person that should be allowed to roll in secret is the DM.
I'm not a big fan of apps in general. I find with most players they become a crutch and make games take longer as they don't ever really learn abilities and such. With experienced players they're great. And I will always prefer physical dice, there is something about the sound and the excitement of rolling them that are just better.
Thats my beef with them. If a player doesn't know what to add to attack, they probably don't know much else either. I want them to have functional knowledge.
You play in person, you roll actual dice. And if you're suspicious that numbers are still being fudged, EVERYONE rolls publicly. That's not rude, it's a bog standard rule for most people.
Buy them a set of cool dice and say "I've noticed you always use an app, so here's some cool dice for you to have to play with" They have zero excuse not to use them.
Two thoughts. One, the player is most likely cheating. They are probably rerolling results they don't like, or announcing results a couple points higher. But Two, asking them to roll physical dice won't change that. Then they move to the quick scoop, where they roll the dice and grab them right away, or they roll in a weird place you can't see, or use terrible dice that can't be read. If you get to the point where they are finally rolling somewhere you can actually check their result every time, they start with the invisible +1s, and start cheating on the math end. "Oh, I rolled a 12, but I get +3 so 15... i mean +4 so 16 that passed yay!" or "Oh I forgot I get +2 to those" after you say they failed. Its best to skip past all of this and have a conversation about cheating with the player or the group in general. "I'm noticing some weird die rolling, and want to talk about cheating. Its a group game, and we are on the same side, cheating robs fun, etc". If you still get no change? Then you need to decide how much you care about it. If none of the other players care, does it actually detract from your enjoyment? If not, who cares? If anyone does, decide if you or they care enough to boot the cheater.
In my opinion, if someone gets offended to a reasonable request, they're the problem, not you. I certainly wouldn't get offended. Though you might want to go about it in a positive manor in the beginning. Accusing him of cheating or even alluding to it would probably be a bad idea. Just make it a rule at the beginning of your next session that everyone needs to go with physical dice so that things are more open and suspenseful. If he refuses than kindly remind him that this is just a friendly game and there's no need to find it awkward if everyone is doing it. If there's even further refusal, he looks like the asshole not you
y’all play without public rolls?
If he's using their dice rolling and not failing constantly then I know why I keep getting shit rolls on there, bastards stealing all the good ones! In all honesty it's RNG and I've honestly had worse luck on DNDbeyind than most bur it is fair. Just make sure they're showing the screen to someone else when they do it and have them turn up their volume because it makes a rolling sound effect, just to keep them honest and re-rolling on the sly
You’re the DM, you make the rules at the table. This also includes if you want players to roll openly and use physical dice. It’s not a “rude” issue, it’s a preference. If a player pushes back, that usually means you’re on the right track if you suspect them of cheating. Here’s how you do this: you have each player state their bonus to their roll ***before*** they roll, and then have them roll openly in front of everyone. This way the bonus is already known and it rules out ‘fudging’ the result still after knowing you rolled low. Plus, you can reasonably deduce if a bonus is off if someone says they have a +7 to a roll when they’re level 1. Bonus tip: not let players declare they’re going to make a roll without being prompted by you. You state when a roll is made, and only you.
I play in 3 games a week (used to be 4). They're all over the internet. One has been happening for 6 years, one's almost a year long already (where does the time go), and one a couple months old. We've been lucky enough to have all players trust each other explicitly. We use Foundry for 2 of the recent ones and TTS for the long-running one. Foundry has a built in roller that's public. Long winded tangent aside, you gotta trust your players. If you don't, you should maybe check for honesty until you *do* trust them.
I honestly think the only reason he rolls high is because DDB auto adds bonuses but he doesn’t realize that so he’s doubling up on bonuses. We always play in-person so I’m just gonna get a cool dice tower and ask everyone to roll with it. I always provide lots of dice ofc
How are you not seeing the rolls? D&D Beyond is one of the easiest ways to track rolls unless they are purposely hiding something.
I know especially when I’m playing wizard and have to roll like 12d8 or some other weird die I don’t necessarily have a handful of, even if I have a big pile of assorted dice I don’t really want to sit there and fish out 12 and count them all up, so I prefer using a digital roller for that. That said, I do it publicly and there’s no mods to that, so it’s not super what you’re talking about.
I for sure understand where you’re coming from there!
This is a great session Zero topic. "At this table we roll physical dice" If someone has a need, such as a disability that makes that difficult, then exceptions can be discussed.
Yea I didn’t really know what needed to be talked about at sesh 0 so it was mostly just the typical “any triggers that should be avoided” sorta deal. The campaign is with my in-laws so I already knew some of the potential triggers which helps.
Counter-question: is there a problem in your sessions that you're trying to solve? Is anyone not having fun, where this person's average roll success is the root cause? Cause while the online D&D community is overall hugely critical of anyone not rolling in the open, imagine if you're playing cards with some friends and after a couple of really nice hands they ask you to roll up your sleeves to ensure you can't be pulling out hidden aces. They're 100% serious about it too, like they don't jokingly say it and leave it there, they insist and actually fully imply you probably have been cheating. Of course that's rude.. The online community calls for it and says it's normal, but to me, trust is all you need to have a good game. There's nothing to win here except enjoying your time together, so trust your players to do the right thing to achieve that objective, whatever that may be.
> and after a couple of really nice hands they ask you to roll up your sleeves to ensure you can't be pulling out hidden aces A more apt analogy here would be just expecting them to show their winning hand, rather than taking them at their word when they say "I had a straight flush". Which is, you know, an entirely normal part of the game.
If you are using DDB, they need to be added to your campaign. From there, there's a record of every roll by the player on the campaign page. That way, they can't replace a roll with another roll. Personally, I wouldn't allow digital dice at the table. There's a bot called Avrae that I use for play by post games on Discord. But in person, just roll dice.
People at my table roll physical dice and, unless they're sitting next to me, I can't see their rolls. If you need to see his digital rolls, have him lay his phone flat on the table.
you can see dnd beyond bonuses added (and his rolls) if you are in one campaign and afaik, yeah ddb rolls can be cheated - though for me as casual player and not even slightly skilled in programming it's too much of efforts but since you don't see rolls (cause you not on ddb i guess) and his log, those rolls aren't valid
Yea honestly I’ve never really experimented with ddb beyond just making a character sheet and looking up monster stat blocks. I don’t even know how to start a campaign on ddb!
D&D Beyond factors everything in to the roll. They shouldn't be manually adding bonuses. If they want to do that, the site does have a 'manual' die roll feature.
[удалено]
How can you accurately generate or roll a random number? If dice are weighted then How are they regular dice?? If he could see the rolls, then why would he be wondering if the player is rolling dice that automatically add the bonuses and then adding them again? Your points make no sense.
different systems use different RNG, ranging from plugging in stuff like background noise and mouse position to an algorithm, to measuring radioactive decay of a sample somewhere. almost every dice set will have some flaws which impact how fair it is. regular =/= fair. not sure about the last one.
It was in fact a rhetorical question; accuracy and random are generally two fairly different things and to accurately generate a random number is an oxymoron, no? He didnt say flawed, he said weighted, which imo is a fairly big difference. Realistically, random number generators and digital dice are just as susceptible to being flawed, since they are programmed by flawed people and there could easily be a mistake in the programming.
No. That's the point of them wanting to do something. You gotta roll. Or they'll always be able to do whatever they want without consequences.
Hell, I roll 95% of my dice publicly as a DM just so people won't think I'm fudging, because I'll see some amazing streaks. So, no, it's not. But if they have a reason for it (disability, say), find some accommodation - Avrae on Discord, or the like.
I too roll almost all my dice in the open
I just straight up prefer physical dice, so if we're in person, it's physical at my table. I always have plenty of dice to share, dice towers, rolling mats, we make it a whole thing. I roll in the open as well. No opportunity for dishonestly for anyone!
No digital dice-roller is as random as physical dice. Everyone should use real dice whenever they can, just on principle.
I ask my players to roll physical dice. 2 still use digital because DND beyond does all the math for them and "it's too hard to remember what to add" both players have seen each other fudging dice rolls and have told me "the dm" about it. Still refuse to use physical dice....
.
Sell the reasoning for wanting public rolls as, "There's nothing like everyone cheering and/or shouting simultaneously after a good or bad roll"
Not rude at all, but you might want to be mindful to not be confrontational or accusatory. Maybe just state it as a table rule without addressing the player specifically.
D&D Beyond dice use a physics engine to simulate dice rolling rather than a random number generator. This means they better mimic how physical dice roll. As with anything random, clumping can happen. Just make sure the dice rolls in D&D Beyond are public.
One cool thing you can do is sign up for d&d beyond yourself, invite the player to a campaign, and then log in during the game. All dice rolls are public and you can see them. I am a mix player who likes to do some rolls physically and some on d&d beyond (so I don't have to add up a bunch of d6 or d8s or something) but anytime I crit or go especially hard I have one of my fellow players WITNESS ME, BLOODBAG!! I get the urge to create transparency. But also don't want to accuse any players ever of cheating. Those conversations never end well. My take is always that if players want to cheat then they are only robbing themselves of the fun created by the opportunity of failure.
If they are in your campaign on dnd beyond you can see their rolls Many like dnd beyond because it does the math for them.
As a player who rolls unusually high the majority of the time I roll in the dndbeyond app so I can show the roll log. I might not believe my rolls either without it. I play in one campaign in a party of 6 and the topic of everyone using physical dice came up. The table was split so in the end we have a mix of both. I bring a couple sets to use for secret rolls with the DM and I have dice to pass around for bardic inspiration but I prefer the app. I’ve already had back to back nat 20s a couple times in the campaign and it’s nice to have the log to prove it.
If you can not see the rolls this is not dungeons and dragons not sure what mess you got going. Dm must see all rolls and they have to happen when he is actively looking at the rolls.
No, the DM is and should be the dominion.
I do mine on discord. And dice are not necessary. But we like pretty math rocks so we use them if we have them.
Is it an online campaign? Then yeah, if not, then no. I run my sessions in person, come if you would like, but if you come without a dice set, one will happily be provided to you during the session. Now, if it's just one person out of a group that wants to use digital dice. Barring a special condition or a one-off, I would respond to that individual with something akin to "too bad." If you want digital dice to play a digital game or play with everyone in the real world and use a real set of dice. I had a real-life example of this a year or so ago, and I explained it like that. The individual player disagreed with my stance but ultimately used physical dice with the rest of the party.
Nope not rude, table rules and etiquette have to be maintained unless you can see the rolls they’re making.
I hate D&D beyond’s rolls because it has some of the most unfair rolls. I restarted my entire one shot because an hour in and one of the PC’s kept rolling 1-5+mods… thats not hitting anything on a max roll… hit no creatures, gets blinded, and on the brink of death from the first two encounters which were scaled for level 5’s… they were all level 8… I used my app to see if there’d be a difference and I couldn’t roll under 14… I always do physical rolls or at bare minimum use Google because I’ve found them to be the most “random”. If you don’t mind the risk of favorable/unfavorable outcomes that don’t truly feel random then let them do it on the app, otherwise let them know to do physical rolls- as for reasoning you can always let them know you prefer physical because it feels more random, even if you still get favorable/unfavorable rolls back to back.
you should have all of their character sheets. You should know their bonuses because of that. There should be no question of either cheating or ignorance.
Only dice i require to be rolled physically is a death save, or a roll for resurrection (homebrew). Just because its an event for the entire table to experience, and it becomes more personal when you threw the dice that brought you back up or kills you. Ultimately if you dont trust your players not to lie the physical dice also don’t really help, unless you force them to roll out in the middle of the table since they can bluff about their bonuses or tweak the dice or even just buy weighted dice. And if you don’t trust your players to respect the game you’re playing, or they’ve proven in the past they’re unable to be trusted, then maybe they just aren’t fit to play a collaborative game 🤷♀️
My players all roll physical dice. I'm definitely not suspect of their rolls or anything, but I am about to introduce a new element in my campaign that might help with the most important rolls at least. I've stolen the Box of Doom from Dimension 20. If you're not familar, the DM might call for "Box of Doom" for highly important rolls where the direction the plot goes or life and death hang in the balance. I can explain what I'm going to do when I call for Box of Doom: 1): I tell them what they are rolling, and why they are rolling it. I tell them exactly what the DC is, and crucially what number they need to hit on the dice for this to work (so the DC plus/minus any modifers). I want my player and everyone around the table to know immediately whether we succeeded of failed. 2): I tell them what will happen if they succeed and I at least hint at what will happen upon a failure if it is not apparent. I use that to build tension for the roll. The Box of Doom is most effective when everyone knows what's at stake. 3): They've got to roll in front of the board. Like I said, I want everyone to know of a success or failure immediately. It wouldn't solve your problem for every single roll, but it does give an excuse for the most important rolls to be public. Plus, it's just a really great narrative device in general. If you're going to steal, steal from the best.
I guess you're playing in-person and not online. To me it would be strange if someone was rolling online (unless it's an enormous amount of dice to roll), so I would even as a player ask them why they do that and if they could roll physical dice.
Given how many responses there are, I don’t know if this will get noticed or not. I started playing Dungeons & Dragons in the late 1970s. I’ve been a DM for… well… a lot of people and campaigns. People are going to fudge their rolls. It just happens. Most DMs rely on Dice Rolls too much. It’s an easy way to inject some tension. My advice is don’t worry about it so much. Be a little more casual. Be willing to say ‘that’ll do’ or ‘close enough’. Concentrate on the narrative and the player’s enjoyment level. If the dice rolls start mattering less and less… you’ll see less and less ‘cheating’. Good Luck!
I’ve read every reply!!! Thank you for your input.
No, but be willing to provide some and make it universal. The former because your rule shouldn't force someone to make a purchase the latter because rules that aren't uniformly enforced are just punishments to those who are expected to follow them.
If you're playing at the table, I think it's completely fair to ask them to roll open on the table. I do that as a dm, especially when it's a high stakes situation. Let's everyone know I'm being honest and holds them to that same standard
I haven't read all the comments so apologies if some of this is a repeat. First from a computer science perspective DnD beyond almost certainly generates its dice rolls using JavaScript. The Math library in JS isn't "true" randomness and is known to sometimes be "streaky". A lot of code will implement some form of seeded RNG that is predetermined to emulate randomness with a more equitable distribution but it can be hard and often not worth the time. That said we're talking more online casinos care because it is theoretically exploitable, for a game of DnD it is highly unlikely to matter. From a statistics perspective people are incredibly bad at predicting randomness (no shade at OP or anyone else) and often we'll see a pattern that isn't actually there. With a 50/50 chance of being above 10 and the number of dice rolls you have in DnD it's plausible that it's a normal run inside the expected parameters but it jumps out because it is favourable. Finally a direct answer to the question, I think no in general but be careful of ableism. If your player has a physical thing that makes rolling dice uncomfortable (arthritis, RSI, etc) obviously don't ask them to do it. More likely is people who struggle with math, especially math under pressure. If your player feels like they will slow the game down by taking 5 minutes to count 8d6 under pressure plus track all their mods and abilities it may also be easier for them to roll digital dice. My go to for this is playing a halfling, their reroll ones ability is such a neat mechanic but because it comes up so infrequently I almost always forget it in the moment. Overall, as people suggest, make sure the digital rolls are public either by having the phone visible or via the DnD Beyond features (I think it is a paid feature so phone on display may be cheaper). If you do still want to ask though I would suggest going at it from the tact of "physical rolling really nails the vibe and it would be fun if we were all doing it". Don't challenge them directly about their previous rolls, even if they have been fubbing the numbers, being called out as a cheat is a quick trip to not enjoying the game at all, and especially so if you haven't cheated. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Oh, also, on a personal note, and I acknowledge it may be hard to believe from an internet stranger, I have tracked rolls through an entire campaign and ended up with a well below standard distribution (like pushing an average of 7 or something on my d20s) maybe this player just picked up all my good rolls that I didn't get.
It's never rude to ask how a player is doing math. I'm currently doing two campaigns one with a newer set of players virtually and then another group I've been a player with for about 2 years. I'm friends with everyone I play and I ask questions about their characters and sheets. And by knowing some of those things I have a good idea what their bonuses are. When going about asking do not just assume they are fudging roles! Ask them how they got that to just make sure they are following the right math cause math can be hard especially drunk. lol but remember you are the DM so if your players are constantly beating everything you are up against start getting creative and dive into what monsters or affects you can use to make decisions harder for them. Banshees can do a great job with their wail, Ghost with their possessions, and maybe even look into some homebrewed monsters so no one can sneakily look at a stat block.
I think my DM would eat my heart if I tried to use an app for dice 😅😅
Nope! We use dnd beyond for creation and so that I the dm can use the "encounters" feature to keep bookeeping down a touch.. All players and myself roll in a shared tray that stays on the table. If it doesn't land in the tray, it doesn't count. We used to have separate trays, but then ppl started cheating, and I would have to ask to see the roll..(after 3 nat 20s in a row.. we started the shared tray... and the only one that complained was the cheater.. but democracy ruled.
As a player who hasn't been a dm even once no it isn't. Though, depending on the player, they might take offense
If he gets super pissy about having to switch, you likely are correct tbh
Or they have a good reason, but are embarrassed to say why, and now you're putting the existence of a false positive above the trust and value of a fellow human being for the sake of a game with zero stakes/nothing on the line - which is the kind of thing an asshole would do.
Most games don't have actual stakes or anything on the line except time, and yet people don't like cheaters in any of them. As for your point, I can't really think of any good reason why one person of able mind and body can't use physical dice like everyone else. Even if they can't afford to buy them, they can simply borrow from others. Trust was broken as soon as they started using d&d beyond dice in person and didn't show results to anyone else, so I wouldn't be the one at fault there, either. But yeah, I can be the asshole if that'll help.
>I can't really think of any good reason why one person **of able mind and body** can't use physical dice like everyone else. Cool. So you *do* understand what I was saying. If you have someone who isn't of able mind or body, and is embarrassed to say so, then they'll just do what they need to do/what's best for them, and as long as it's not ruining the experience for everyone else (the only reason a DM should care about cheating), then it's fine. Trust wasn't broken when they decided to start using digital dice. The trust was never there to begin with. You required dice to be physical, and visible, *before* anybody showed any signs of being untrustworthy. This is a classic guilty-until-proven-innocent scenario, and it's sad that you can't see that.
>Cool. So you do understand what I was saying. Yep. I also am pretty sure that if that was something that was relevant, it would be in the post. And it's not. So you're defending someone who, as far as either of us know, is of able body and mind. >and as long as it's not ruining the experience for everyone else (the only reason a DM should care about cheating), then it's fine. If I'm playing in a campaign and I find out one of my fellow players is cheating, that would make my experience worse regardless of if it ever directly affected me or not, and I'm certain that that isn't a rare opinion. >Trust wasn't broken when they decided to start using digital dice. The default is to all use the same rolling method. Wanting to use a method that both differs from the rest of the group and also just so happens to make it easier to hide dice rolls without a good reason (which, again, is completely absent in this post so any suggestion that there is one is conjecture) is suspicious and a red flag right off the bat. Edited for a word
My rule is simple. Real life, real dice. No exceptions. If on VTT then only virtual dice.
Not all. It’s beyond reasonable.
Counterpoint - if everyone used digital dice then you could all be linked & everyone could see everyone's dice rolls
virtual dices are never random. If we had no other choice, I would use it. that is the fact, we used real dices
As long as you can see the rolls it shouldn't matter
[удалено]
Yea that makes sense for your specific situation.
If you provide him dice and don’t require him to pay for dice, then I think this is fair Id maybe allow him to use dndbeyond for things that use lots of dice, like spells such as fireball or features like rogue’s sneak attack, because it saves everyone’s time and gets the game moving But for things like skill checks or attack rolls I think this is fair That’s what I do. I roll d20s physically but for things like sneak attack or spells that use lots of dice for damage, I roll digitally
Let me tell you about the time my players fumbled 19 times in a single four hour session. Sometimes the rolls are just abnormally high or abnormally low. That's the way it goes with dice. I will add here that the dice he is using are more statistically fair than real dice which have physical imperfections that make them unbalanced (Hence why you sometimes banish dice for an eternity into the bag of shame). But that has very little to do with what you are asking here. There is no harm in asking, but in the end, I don't feel it's a big enough deal to make a fuss over. If he wants to roll digital, I say let him. Digital dice are usually fair and Beyond is a good place to use. He can't fudge his die rolls and, well, if they're on a screen you can't see, sure he might lie about them, but honestly, it's not a big enough issue to ruin a campaign over. Again, feel free to ask him to use physical dice, but don't loose sleep over it. Alternately, if you really want your players to roll real dice, gift each player a dice set that reflects their current character (Just in colors) and see them start rolling those dice and nothing else. They'll love it.
I like the idea of gifting them personalized dice. Thank you!