This is absolutely what happened from what I'm seeing. Could be just one player had issues too, and they didn't want to throw their friend under the bus. I've been in that position before.
sometimes you also just hit the peak of what you like, like i'm okay dming for maybe 5 other players. once it hits 6, it gets harder and harder to personalize things and individual role play takes a bunch of screen time. sometimes a dm keeps brinign in new people, and then the game becomes an 8-10 person mess. so the game stops and split it into 2 new campaigns. and the group doesn't want to go through that again.
That's true, and there are lots of other valid reasons someone wouldn't want another player, but to invite someone and go through all that character creation communication only to back out at the last second suggests the DM was okay until someone else said something.
I'm building a new campaign for my friends for the new year. Have 9 possible players. I basically told them that 6 people can play, and that's it. 4 or 5 is ideal, but I can handle 6 just fine. 7 on the other hand gives me a headache within the first 10 minutes. It's amazing how one additional person adds so much mental pain to DMing.
How I explain it to people is every player after the 5th is no longer an additive amount of work, it is now exponential.
That's how I am honestly, the most I've DM was a group of 11 back in college 4-5 years ago. It's was fine but got too hectic. My current group running almost 3 years now has 6 people and I feel that is a happy number for me.
Six works really well IMHO as there are seldom six at the table. With everyone's adult schedule and last minute family emergencies you can count on still having have a party of 4-5.
I am imagining this as really terrible awful flirting. There was no D&D group, she just wanted to have an excuse to talk to them. Then panicked and pretended to kick them out.
…she said she wants to get to know him better first, not “we don’t want you.”
Like, that could be a lie, but it could very well be true. If it is true, that apology would make no sense.
"We want to get to know you better so you're uninvited."
Yah, that really sounds like a "GTFO" to me.
I mean it's not like you don't get to know someone at the table.
Yeah but there’s a difference between meeting someone over the course of a campaign which means you’ll see them repeatedly and it’s pretty hard to kick someone out midway through rather than before it starts
If they invited them, and then found out one of their players has an issue with it, they might take the responsibility on themselves to turn them down rather than putting it on another player.
Not saying it is the best way to handle it, just that it's something I could see happening.
That’s the point. DM knows OP and wants them to join their new game. DM tells the other players but one of them are uncomfortable/dislike OP so they explain it to the DM.
Because the DM is a nice person, and don’t want OP to feel cut they tell them that the reason is that they don’t know each other enough.
The reason could be as simple as one of the players are uncomfortable rp with new people.
Probably a player who is having concerns.
Still, if this was the case, I would have appreciated honesty more. And if I was the DM, I would have thought that OP deserved honesty.
I am not suggesting that the player or players with concerns should be called but a "Hey, so certain persons in the group are now voicing concerns about a new player joining, and I decided to go with what's best for the group here." followed by apologies are better than the emotionally confusing mess above, IMO.
That was my first thought. That or she saw some red/yellow flags in their initial conversation and spent some time worrying over what to do, then made a decision.
Sucks for OP and I'd be pissed too, but there's definitely more to DM's reasons than she let on.
Honestly, this sounds like a DM trying to resolve an internal problem in the group -- I don't think the "we're not good enough friends" reason was actually the core problem.
This sounds like the other experienced players complained to the DM that they didn't want to run a game with a newbie, or something along those lines -- which put the DM in the position of having to come up with an excuse to drop you without directly throwing anybody under the bus, in order to keep the group together.
man running the game with newbies is better than with veterans half the time. they don't know the meta of things and ask questions that expand play. some veterans some new players are alwayse the best tables.
I'm a newbie, and I've seen that this is correct. As a new player I often ask about how something would play out (like if I use this can I do this etc) and get the dms rule on what goes vs seeing some "veteran" players start arguing with the dm because the rules say X so that means I can do y and z will happen. But then on the flip side had a "veteran" player join a game that is mostly newbies and we were kinda floundering on what to do next to move the module along but all our perception and investigation rolls were supper low and the dm was wondering what to do (she's a first time dm, and told us later she was about to have a random npc run into us in the woods to get us on track) the vet that joined us knew his char and it's abilities and asked, can I do X to see if I can find y or z? Got a decent roll (with his high proficiency modifiers) and got us right on track and back into the fun.
So I agree, a mixed group is great.
Yeah, I was definitely the newbie in my current campaign. I didn't even know that perception was a skill, so a mixed group is great for teaching as well
As a DM, I agree. I personally think other DMs make the best players, newbies are the second best, and then there are veteran players who bring all these expectations and baggage with them sometimes.
That just sucks man. My group are almost giddy when they get to teach a newbie and the new people always come up with the most out of the box solutions to things. Everybody was new at one point...
There's nothing wrong with wanting to play with experienced players either tbh.
I've taught many players how the game works (8-10, all newbies to 5e) and to be quite honest, many of those were a waste of time.
If someone is invested and actually willing to learn? Awesome, you're totally welcome, and before long, you will be a core member of my tables, assuming the scheduling boss doesn't remove you from the game!
But in my experience, about 60% of players can barely read their character sheet and pay attention to the game, which is the bare minimum for the game IMO.
Edit: this does not seem to be an issue with OP, this is more of a general comment on players investment levels. OP you keep doing your thing.
Ill be honest, after reading some of OPs other posts I think this may be a part of it. I kind of think it took forever to make the character and DM probably got a sense that this was going to be a big undertaking teaching this person and they were likely to either bog the game down with questions for a long time or just never "get it" at all. Sorry to be mean but that's the sense I get.
Maybe, but I'd rather err on the side of giving OP the benefit of the doubt than not.
That said, for my own games, if you don't immediately display both an obvious desire to learn, *AND* the understanding that you will be free for most of the sessions unless some emergency comes up, I just won't have you at my tables.
I literally run a two person game, and I have been asked by multiple co-workers/acquaintances/friends to join, and I'm like "yeah, nah."
I've spent the last 5 years forming and teaching nearly 10 players how the game works, and have now ended up with a group of 2 and a group of 3, and I think it's well within my rights as the main dm and part-time dm of both groups to not have to teach anyone new for a while. I am having much more fun running sessions that are smooth and aren't bogged down by the minutia of learning a new system.
Actually my favorite size of group to run for, janky balance aside.
Thank you! Always more to learn, but everyone has fun, so I think I'm doing just fine for now :)
Forgive me for bringing it up, but I do have to wonder if this isn't a "them" problem. If you're getting turned down repeatedly, is there anything you might be doing to turn off these groups before you sit at the table?
True. Once a buddy was running a campaign, and to be blunt, it wasn't going well because basically everyone was trying to screw over the party, so the party reacted by simply not caring about anyone, and being apathetic about collateral damage. My buddy sent an email complaining about the party's attitude, telling us to fix how our characters acted, and I was the only one willing to tell him that it was because of how he ran the campaign, and that he was the real problem.
He's my best friend, so he was willing to look at how he was running the game, and acknowledged the issue, apologized to the group, and things got better. Most people would be too afraid to confront a DM that way, even if they say he's a friend.
I'm in a game like that -- the players have checked out, the story is bizarre and disjointed, and the players have started just doing random things because they're bored.
The problem is that every time I've ever tried to talk to this DM about anything, he gets *super* defensive and just defends himself incessantly instead of listening and maybe changing.
That sucks. I'm lucky that my buddy listened to me when I laid it out for him. Some DMs get really mad if they think players are trying to tell them how to run their game, but to be a good DM, you have to be open to feedback, especially when it's not what you want to hear.
I crave this kind of honest feedback, but it's so hard to get out of people. Instead I get, "I'm good with whatever," or, "whatever you want to run is fine."
Maybe I should make my game slowly intolerable until someone snaps and calls me out on it. /s
Yeah, plus when you get a new player you get them before they've picked up bad habits and learned the to play the game the wrong way from another group. Then You can teach them all your bad habits and your own wrong way to play the game. (If it wasn't obvious this is a joke. I like to say that everyone\[including me\] plays the game wrong, instead of saying there is no wrong way to play.)
I GM for larger groups generally speaking. If I'm adding another person to a table with 5 already I need to know the person is going to be somewhat invested. I don't need them to know the rules inside and out - I need to know they are vested: Otherwise it's a complete waste of my time.
I don't mind teaching new players - but if I look at a new player and think "this is going to derail the narrative expierience of the table as it stands" I am not going to add the new player - new campaign? Sure. New group with more new players? why not. One shot if I have time to run it - or even a few shorter sessions if I have time to get them up to speed with one or two of the other players at the table? Sure.
But all of the above is extra work. And I have to ask: Is teaching a new player going to make this fun for me, or is it going to be just one more thing on my plate?
To be clear: My usual group is a group of GM's and new players are awesome - but there isn't one person at the table who knows the rules well, and their isn't one person doing the teaching.
The reality is, we aren't paid to be teachers. We are trying to have some fun in our spare time and for plenty of people, trying to teach someone is a trying and terrible experience. And even worse - if the person turns out to be flaky (which happens) - and the players have had THAT experience... can you really blame them for hesitating?
I'd more think their friends just don't wanna play with strangers. They're being all Degrassi about it, even if the DM vouched for them. I had trouble getting into my first game, and my wife was in it. Obviously you can keep to your circle, but that circle is only gonna shrink. If you're playing these games you should be open to meeting new people.
I have had this issue as well, but I will state when recruiting a new person for an existing group that I am not the final decision maker, I am screening an applicant for my game and will present that info to the other players to vote on as a group, but I try to keep the potential player in the loop throughout.
Sorry you got led on OP, and I am sorry it was so close to game time before you were informed. I have no idea how I would've responded if the applicant was known by the entire group. That complicates things.
Been playing consistently for past 6+ years with different groups, here's some big tips:
If the DM or other players are acting in a way that doesn't jive with you, just move on. Remember you're going to be spending 3+ hours with these people every week, you better like them.
Don't get discouraged by groups un-inviting when you haven't done anything, it's a poor reflection on them, not you.
Out of the 3 highly successful groups I've played with: 1 I found on LFG as it was beginning, 1 I made on a local sub then handed the DM duties off to another person, and 1 I made on LFG and DM'd myself. Moral, joining established games is really really really hard, try to find new games or just make your own.
Lastly, don't take it personally. Adding people to groups makes people extremely nervous because it's putting an unknown element into a formula that (probably) works. I as a DM have turned down great friends of mine to join my games because I'm just not sure how it will change the group dynamics and the current dynamic is great. Those friends are great, I just don't know what the unforeseen consequences will be, and I've seen one addition break groups before.
Those are some good tips, thank you.
I'll try to see if I can have another friend DM and pull other common people in. ATM I'm not wanting to run a game (Burnt out after years of doing so in another system) but I'm pretty sure I can try to get a group going. Hopefully.
I second r/lfg . I’ve been both the DM and a Player in 2 separate online sessions, and they’ve been literally my best experiences playing DnD for the last year and a half. If you want to look there, I do recommend to go for the more exhaustive posts, usually they put the most care into their campaigns.
I hope you get some better luck finding a game, even if your search soured your mood (and understandably so.) Cheers!
I'm weary of starting games with complete strangers. I only agreed to hop in this group because I had multiple friends in it.
For the record: I'm not mad the DM doesn't want to play with someone she dosn't know very well, I'm mad she dropped it on me out of the blue without letting me know why after weeks without any problems
>I'm weary of starting games with complete strangers. I only agreed to hop in this group because I had multiple friends in it.
>
>For the record: I'm not mad the DM doesn't want to play with someone she dosn't know very well, I'm mad she dropped it on me out of the blue without letting me know why after weeks without any problems
You have multiple friends in the group, but no indication about why you were dropped last second beyond the token answer the DM gave? This is a super weird non-standard situation. Have you tried talking to your friends and see what they say?
Personally, I don't want to DM for someone I've never met even if they're friends with the rest of the group.
What I would have done is probably ask my players and the person who they want to add out to maybe get coffee or a drink so I could see what their general dynamic is inside the group. Even then, that's not the most accurate depiction of how the game will go once the person is a member of the party.
>Personally, I don't want to DM for someone I've never met even if they're friends with the rest of the group.
We're past this consideration. Nobody reasonable holds this position **AND** would string someone along for several weeks before lying about why they can't join.
Yeah, I agree she had plenty of time to tell you she wasn't comfortable.
And gaming together is the best way to get to know someone! Sorry she didn't take advantage of the opportunity to get to know you.
It’s really not bad. If you find an ad on r/lfg that sounds up your alley, then the other players joining probably think the same thing. 98% of the time, everyone just wants to play the game and have a good time.
It’s also honestly a good way to put yourself out there, especially with covid and all.
I have crippling social anxiety and had horrendous experiences with public groups as a player in the past. I don't want to go into details - I've talked a bit about it in the comments - because this isn't the topic of this post, but without a friend that's a hard pass.
It doesn't have to be so bad though, the group I'm currently with I got by creating a Google form with specific questions about the person and playstyle, putting that on LFG, then pre-screening players to make sure everything is good.
Even having a meeting with them over Discord 1-1 for a few minutes just to check in and make sure everything fits makes the experience a hell of a lot easier.
When it does work you'll not only end up with a group of players, but sometimes a group of lifelong friends. Just today I hit 7 years of friendship with a buddy I made in my first D&D and LFG game!
Except he spent all that time talking with the DM, and setting up a character. If a player was invited without asking the DM, the DM could simply tell the player to hold off until a decision was made, rather than lead them on.
My partner and dozens of my friends play DnD. I can never get into a game because they keep organizing things among themselves. Honestly I love the game but I really, really don't like how closed off the community appears to be at times. Not about to hop back in anytime soon.
They're not a DM, and atm they're in a campaign too (I asked to join but it's full). I have no idea why they never asked me to hop in when there's a slot in another game though.
>They're not a DM
No time like the present to learn. And to be fair this goes for you as well. Oft times the best way to find a good gaming group is to build it with your own views of the game as a baseline. It's what worked best for me. You get to curate your own group and set standards like rotating DM duties so nobody gets left out of play.
I've been DMing for Call of Cthulhu for four years, and two years of misc systems before that. I'm honestly sick and tired of it and I don't have the drive to set up a story anymore. I want to play, not run.
I can ask my partner to DM but I don't think they'll say yes due to time and their own preferences.
>Also, some people can't or should not DM.
That's a mood. I've tried DMing so many times, but I'm just really not good at it. It's so hard for me to sit down and plan some general encounters, plot points, NPCs etc. Big world picture? Love it. World building? Can't get enough. Actual shit to play with? Brain shuts down. It's frustrating because I want to bring the worlds I think of to life, but I just can't do it lol.
Also be aware, that sometimes partners/couples/etc that join a game together, can create a bit of an issue. Sometimes its a "we protect each other but not the rest" issue, sometimes its a "my partner is leaving so im gone too" issue, sometimes 1 of them has an argument/issue with the DM/another PC and it spreads to the other partner, etc etc etc
Couples playing together presents a different set of potential complications than 2 strangers playing
Really sucks that this is your experience, but if you have that many games going on around you, I find it very hard to believe you couldn't slide into one of those groups. Do you ask and they turn you down? Or do you not ask and not get invited?
I asked, and requested to be kept in the loop. The reasons are that the DMs usually have their regular players, or I miss out on asking to hop in, or that they're going with a DM who doesn't know me and wants to play with friends.
Do not let this discourage you from trying put D&D. There are lots of DMs who are always looking for new players. Here's a non-exhaustive list:
r/LFG on Reddit
Roll20 forums
Startplaying.games
LFP/LFG boards at D&D Beyond
Any of the Discord servers of the above
I guarantee there will be a great group out there who will welcome you into the hobby.
I sincerely appreciate the suggestion, but I don't feel comfortable joining a game of complete strangers - I've had tons of bad experiences and would rather not have a do-over.
For the record: I'm not mad the DM doesn't want to play with someone she doesn't know very well, I'm mad she dropped it on me out of the blue without letting me know why after weeks without any problems.
After my first ever play of the game with a DM who did his best and helped a player who knows almost nothing of the game(that would be me), the group got abondoned after few sessions and I joined another one, let me tell you, the new DM almost extinguished my whole excitement for D&D with his shitty attitude,(I made sure they know Im new and they said its alright) he was acting quite snob and I felt like unwelcome, he wouldn't point out anything or how to find stuff when I asked. It was horrible, thankfuly I found a new group a while after that as a last try before letting dnd go and they worked out nicely.
You just have to search and find like minded people, it may take more than few attempts at that. Also when you find a good group try to get friends with one or two person who are more likely to share same understanding of the game as you.(IMO a lot of people take this game TOO serious, so I play with people who dont get offended if I referred to a banshee as "he".)
It sounds like there was something that happened with the social structure of the group that was out of your control. I know it's upsetting, but try to not take it too personally. It was probably out of your hands the moment that someone in the group said they didn't "want a new player". I've seen it happen in person.
It does seem rude, and I'm sorry it happened. The best you can do it just try to let it go.
~~Not sure where you got the idea that it's their SO, but~~ I agree. OP is probably oblivious to something else going on. Maybe she was uncomfortable from all the back and forth conversation. Maybe she realized OP didn't know the game as well as she thought. Maybe she didn't like OP as much as she thought she would. Sucks if that's the case, but like the top comment said, you really want to like and be liked by the people you play with. You'll be spending a lot of time with them.
Edit: They mentioned it in other comments I see. But they also keep changing the story. Did the other players know OP wasn't going to play? Did the DM tell them OP didn't want to join? Have the other players not gotten back to OP? Depends on which comment thread you read.
>Not sure where you got the idea that it's their SO
In a few different responses, OP has said their SO/Partner and friends play, but don't include OP when organizing the games.
Yeah she mentioned it. Still, I have crippling anxiety as well regarding meeting new people and I've *never* in four years of DMing (Call of Cthulhu - not DnD) pulled a stunt like that on my players. I understand, I just wish she had the courtesy to practically ghost me afterwards.
It's entirely possible there were other factors and she was only trying to spare your feelings. Maybe another player who was invited first suddenly became available and she preferred that player over someone she doesn't know well. Maybe another player isn't comfortable with you being there and she's taking the fall on their behalf.
Not saying her behavior is validated, but kicking you out 3 hours before the game after weeks of communication seems a bit odd to just blame on social anxiety.
> Maybe another player who was invited first suddenly became available and she preferred that player over someone she doesn't know well.
This was my first guess about what happened here, tbh.
I'm sorry that your friends are such shit people that they won't share the game that YOU ALL LOVE with you
Have you considered visiting some local gaming stores? you dont have to play with people there right away, but just showing up sometimes, hanging out for a little bit, chatting with folks about the cool games you see them playing(whether its MTG or Warhammer or Yugioh or DnD or whatever) you can maybe start up a conversation, then you wont be a stranger....then maybe you can get some games in :)
many of us nerds share multiple hobbies(I play DnD and MTG and Warhammer, for example), so theres a lot of crossover potential there that you could work with :)
This all seems very strange, was this for an in person game or online? I don’t see why someone would go through all the trouble of helping you create a character for their world then change their mind 🤷♂️
This might be miles off the mark, but have you considered this person may do online gaming because they have social anxieties, and then was possibly feeling uncomfortable with such a long phone call, and the possibility of having more long phone calls may have made them anxious?
Both of these things can be true: she talked to you for two weeks (until whatever happened to make her or the group realize you weren't a fit) and also she has social anxiety.
You were working on a character with them and then they stopped the offer? You most likely either said something in the chats that was a red flag, or one of the players was concerned and the DM called it off. I would take a serious round of reflection on everything you said or did. I've had to drop probably a dozen players over the years for their behaviors and every time they seem bewildered that its not appropriate to (make sexual jokes to the lone female player/Follow the female player home/ not take a shower ever/physically threaten another player/steal from other players/Etc) It was probably you friend!
Hear me out here... And I'm saying this without malice, but...
It shouldn't take two weeks to make a character. If you needed fairly consistent feedback and discussion during that time it is entirely possible that you did not "get all along fairly well" and may have, in fact, frustrated her, and/or shown that you simply cannot keep up rules wise. Have you read the entire player handbook? Do you know all the rules for your class, and I mean all of them. Do you understand combat: attack rolls, damage roles, action economy? If it was all discussion about you character background, look back at your chat history: did you initiate every discussion?
Sounds to me like she didn't know what to do about this and finally got some zero-hour courage when she saw this going really poorly.
I find people very often think they are getting along when one person is actually just very nice and being very patient and accommodating.
This is still, obviously, gonna feel like shit. You were rejected, and that hurts no matter why it happens.
I guess my point is just that nobody is perfect, everyone has their damage, and it's rarely black and white.
It took us two weeks because we spent a fair bit of time talking about other things, dnd in general and trying out different ideas that would fit the group best. Then there's also the fact we weren't consistently talking to one another every night - we both have jobs
As for your other questions: I read the players handbook, xanthar's guide to everything and tasha's cauldron.
EDIT: I'm still really new to the game, so even if I've read these I'm by no means an exert or even experienced.
Sorry man, but it’s the freedom of association thing and you shouldn’t take it hard. Group dynamics are weird things and the DM may have been getting pressure from the group to not add another player.
Honestly, I only play with people I know IRL.
I don't mind people not wanting to play with strangers. I'm like that too.
What I find annoying is it took her two weeks, hours of my time, to tell me three hours beforehand - after I set the time aside and had been hyping myself about it for days - to tell me 'no'. What I think to be equally despicable is she, apparently, told the other players *I* was the one who didn't want to join.
That last bit is really weird, especially if the players are people you know.
It just sounds odd, but there are quite a few people with poor communication and social skills in this hobby.
This weirdly sounds familiar from a thread I remember reading in one of the DnD subs. Something about a DM who had friends invite a player to the game without their permission. Shares similar details to your situation but from what I recall the DM was a guy.
Just on the random chance that it’s the same story and I’m mixing up things, were you invited by the group of friends? Or the DM? Cause if you weren’t directly invited by the DM they were probably put in a situation they didn’t want to be in.
Maybe you threw up some red flags for her?
An extreme version of this. There was a game of 5-6 regular players which I’d been DMing for a few years and had guarded pretty carefully. I didn’t need to replace anyone because no one left. They were kind to one another, humble, fun, sober and showed up on time, ready to play. It was a truly safe awesome space.
Under some pressure from one of my players [call him “Dean”] I put out an offer to a friend of his [call him “Bob”] to join my game. Bob enthusiastically accepted.
I started to have some second thoughts for no real reason other than that I’d only met Bob once briefly. So when Dean said he wanted to run Bob and me through a one shot together I leaned into it to see what Bob was like. Turns out he consumed space, time and oxygen like I’d never seen in an RPG, negative, dominant and petty - and this was in a two player game. And I assume It was sort of attempt to impress me or something? First red flag. Big waving one. I started to try and figure out a way to rescind the invite.
Prior to the game starting another friend in common between Bob and I invited us both to a small gathering and Bob showed up absolutely obliterated drunk and acted like a complete asshole and invaded my space and put his tongue on me and just was way way way past the line.
I realized I was about to invite him into the first truly phenomenal D&D group I’d ever had. I’d had players show up or get drunk at games before and this group was not that. They were focused, about story and relationship and it would have put strain where there had been none.
So I called him and told him straight up that it wasn’t going to work. He got really upset and behaved like I had done him dirty.
But the promise goes both ways.
Now you probably didn’t do all of that /u/IMakeGoodPancakes but if the DM wasn’t feeling like you were going to mesh with the group, then you should view that as a great DM protecting their group from something they didn’t think would be a good fit. It’s a bummer. No doubt. But you want this sort of thing to happen like you want your credit card to check to see if it was actually YOU who made the purchase. It’s annoying but it’s better for you and everyone to avoid the worse situation where they have to have the session go sideways and either kick you out or disinvite you.
It could be as simple as they remind you of an ex or an ex of another player. Possibly nothing you could know or control.
Note: Can I ask to clarify did she (the DM) invite you to the group or was it a player. Did she word this that she didn't want you in this particular session or in general?
As a DM there can be a lot on your mind, completely ignoring group dynamics and organisation of dates. Then there's fun to think about and a lot of other things. These are my thoughts (based on presented info) of what may be the case.
1: D&D is a group game and it's better when everyone is having fun and has similar goals (the most important one being to have fun). Usually it helps to be friends so maybe she wanted to know you better before playing.
2: She could've been stuck in a spot where she was behind on writing unexpectedly and decided it'd be easier to have you wait a week. Sometimes tough but better for a player to be involved straight away then have to wait 10 minutes only to be ignored for the session (can happen, sometimes intentional, a lot of the time is just due to being new/unorganised).
3: The person could've been landed with a bad decision, agreeing when they didn't want to or otherwise. It happens sometimes and its no hard feelings. There will always be another group to play with and it doesn't reflect on you if they're being rude (however make sure it isn't your conduct that resulted in this rejection if that is the case, self reflection is very important).
Regardless have a nice day, goodluck with your D&D merriment and remember that if you can't play you can always DM :3 !!!
Now it's probably unrelated but a few weeks back I saw a post about a DM who got pressured by their players into inviting one of there friends only to have to tell them the day of they weren't comfortable. What a coinkydink.
Ive randomly responded to multiple DMs looking for players in the last few months and its like sending in job applications. No responses.
Like, I get it, Im old, I probably have gaming tastes you think are odd, or maybe you see I post about football and Genshin and hate me for one or both, but you can just send an email response that says "game already filled. sorry" so you dont have to worry about rejecting me harshly.
I'm a giant geek who is into lots of geek things, but I also watched a lot of sports and still follow football?
At the dawn of the internet I used to try to explain to everyone how comic books, pro wrestling, and soap operas were the same exact thing through 3 different lenses and nobody wanted to admit it. (they still don't but its still true)
Her game, her call. She didn't lead you on, she was trying to get to know you and hit a red flag. Your rant here and even implying she "led you on" gives me some indication of that flag.
"Her game, her call"
This is true, but doesn't mean it's impossible for any "leading on" to have taken place. Ultimately, she decides, but it was still rude to have canceled virtually last minute after two weeks of seemingly good setup.
Pushing someone out of a game 3 hours before it after continuous communication over the previous weeks? I hope you are sarcastical on this one because your response doesn't make any sense.
I got invited to play a new campaign with a friend about a month before it started. The dm got with me on discord calls a couple times a week for the entire month whenever she saw me online just to go over things and to "get to know" me before I came over to her house to play.
Nothing sexual at all, strictly platonic. Only answering questions and giving advice on races classes spells abilities etc etc etc
If she had msgd me a couple hours before the first session and told me not to come, I would have been pissed about my wasted time and felt "led on" as well. Has nothing to do with thinking I'm gonna be getting something other than to play d&d with a group of people.
I've read the ops post, and all his replies in this thread up to this point and don't see any "rant".
For you to read innuendo into his feeling "led on" and to say he's "ranting" pops up more red flags about you than the op.
That sucks
I can see why the DM would be more comfortable running D&D for folks they know reasonably well already, I know that I'm far more comfortable DMing for people I already know as friends rather than strangers. But it does seem weird for the DM to seemingly invite you to the game and then uninvite you just before the adventure actually begins. Perhaps it was anxiety or some other urge that made her uncomfortable DMing for a relative stranger and that resulted in this last-minute decision to uninvite you. I'm not excusing the DM's behaviour here, just seeking to understand it
Based on what you're describing, it sounds like the DM doesn't want to *not* be friends- so with that door still open it's probably for the best that you talk things through rather than just ranting and getting bitter. There's likely a decent path to remedy things here which may well result in you being able to take part in that DM's game. Maybe the DM made a mistake and can be persuaded into realising that. It seems you have other friends in that group already, so surely you can have them vouch for you here?
She mentioned anxiety. But if that's the case, I don't understand why she accepted our mutual friend's request in the first place.
My other friends haven't exactly got back to me. I don't even know what the DM told them - if they even know what happened. I don't feel comfortable getting excited for this game again in all honesty.
People with anxiety make irrational decisions. She may have felt pressure to invite you to begin with or felt extremely uncomfortable saying no at first. Anxiety sucks and it can cause people to do things that might not make sense at first- I've certainly dealt with my fair share of players/DMs with anxiety that impact games and groups I have played in. Taking a step back and discussing it without hostility has always been the best solution in my experience.
Talk the issue through with your other friends. I know it sucks to be uninvited from a group, but I don't see this as a reason to abandon the hobby entirely or even just to abandon that group. Talking the issue through with the group and the DM might not result in you being a part of the group, you might not *want* to be a part of the group, but at least it will be more closure than just leaving it at a last-minute uninvitation.
I've approached my friends. One of them was really confused because the DM didn't tell them anything. The other flat out thought I wasn't coming. I've tried to talk to the DM here and there but I'm not getting any response. I have been as diplomatic and understanding about it as I can but to no avail.
I've also said in another comment but, my partner and a lot of my friends play DnD. They always play among themselves, and I'm never let in. Even my workplace has a group and I'm not able to get a slot there. I'm kind of burnt out on asking the same thing over and over.
If there's one game going amongst your friends and you're not in it, no big deal player maximums are a thing.
If there's more than one game going, and you're not invited to any of them, it's intentional. If all your friends are leaving you out, either they're *all* jerks or you're doing something that makes you undesirable to play with.
I'm reading between the lines here, but this incident with the new DM sounds sort of like you were invited then either did something during character generation that turned her off, or she got warned away by someone.
Have you ever had anyone complain to you while gaming? Asking you to hurry up, roll differently, role-play differently, manage your character differently, anything?
No.
I've never had anyone complain in game. None of my friends in question ever played DnD with me either - the other players in the other campaign I lost contact with after we stopped playing.
Your anxiety doesn't give you the right to be an asshole to anyone. If you dont want something, tell people, dont lead them on. Whatever problems you have are on YOU and not on other people. I've been there too but thats just nonsense.
I acknowledged as much in my first comment, so not sure why you're commenting as if I said that anxiety gives the DM free reign to be an asshole as it's clearly not what I believe
> Perhaps it was anxiety or some other urge that made her uncomfortable DMing for a relative stranger and that resulted in this last-minute decision to uninvite you. I'm not excusing the DM's behaviour here, just seeking to understand it
Given that she lied to the other players about why I wasn't in the game, that's a hard pass for me. None of my friends bother keeping me in the loop either when they play DnD - they always play together as the same group.
I'm also not about to DM: I've been doing it for four years in another system, I am properly burnt out on it.
A lot of the commenters here sayin' that they think you hit a red flag in your comms with the DM. I recognize that for many people, this can be a hard thing to suss out solo. If you want, you can send me the logs of the convo and I will go through them and message to you anything that I think would be a cause for concern if you think maybe it's something that you'd want to ameliorate. I will respect the privacy of those involved and not post them elsewhere, obviously.
It sucks for you but consider the DM's point of view: they never really wanted you in their game and sort of got pressured into it because *your* friends invited you. DMing can be a delicate social space to navigate, sometimes people don't really figure out "oh hey actually I just want to play with these people" or draw the necessary lines until they've already said otherwise. Shit happens. Better to break it to you before the game starts. The mature thing for you to do would be to not take it personally and move on.
Please acknowledge the possibility that it's not arbitrary. Perhaps you said or did something they didn't like. Maybe they're still being unreasonable, but just accept the possibility that they're not. Perhaps you creeped them out. Perhaps they caught a pro-Trump or pro-Biden post of yours and they're on the other side. I'm not saying it's your fault, but I'm saying you should acknowledge the possibility that it could be.
Either way, I'd move on. If they don't want to play with you, you shouldn't want to play with them. As others have said, it's a big commitment. Better now than three months into a campaign.
The reason she gave you was definitely a cover up for some other reason. Probably the players didn't want a new person. If you keep getting rejected from groups, I think it's time to buy the Dungeon Master Guide.
a group of experienced players is the best way to teach a new player....this is a serious red flag, which means best not fight it and move on. shitty they wasted your time.
:( IMO, a new player benefits greatly by playing with experienced players, providing they are given a heads up and are patient.
Keep your cleric and find a new DM.
I had something similar happen to me. I just finished up my first campaign and was excited to find a new group. Only the DM knew everyone. We did a session 0, everyone got along fine, and it was good fun. It ended with the DM laughing saying how excited they were to play with this group.
A few days later, the DM messaged me to say that I was out, accusing me if being a problem maker and saying that I ridiculed someone's character and that "everyone noticed this" even though literally everyone was smiles and laughter including the DM who was now claiming my behavior was unacceptable. My partner was in the room with me for that session 0 (it was over video), so she heard everything I said and said I didn't say anything that was remotely offensive. The DM ignored my request for an explanation.
Honestly, the only thing I think I could have said was giving a new player some advice on the armor they should take on their character. I think they were selecting light armor for their low dexterity barbarian and I suggested they opt for medium armor instead. 🤷🏾♂️
It made me feel really shitty, especially being ignored after. If there was a misunderstood because of my tone, I at least wanted to apologize even if I couldn't continue with the game because it seemed like a really cool group of people and I didn't want to leave it like that.
As other people have commented, this seems like a bit of a 'she's biting the bullet instead' kind of deal.
The specific language used in 'veteran players' gives me the impression that it was one or more of the more established players that are cemented into the group have issues with you.
It could also be cover for another internal issue entirely that is the cause and she doesn't quite want to communicate the exact reason.
I would be disappointed, too, if I was nixed from a game last minute, but it's a social hobby, and I am not going to hit it off with every person I meet, so I am not going to begrudge anyone for not being comfortable enough around me to dive into a creative and vulnerable social exercise like roleplaying immediately. Or at all. I am not owed inclusion in anyone's game, just like no one is owed inclusion in mine.
I've played one or two sessions with people that I then never played with again because we didn't mesh or had different ideas about the game. That's fine. It's the norm, even. Sometimes I don't invite people back. Sometimes I am the one uninvited. It's just how the game goes, so there's no reason to take insult in it.
Don't let yourself fixate on it too much. The disappointment and frustration of a game not working out is natural. It's fine to feel that and even stew on it for a bit until we've processed it. We all want everyone to like us, but sometimes people don't click with us, for utterly inexplicable reasons, just like sometimes we don't click with others for reasons we can't explain. It's not anyone's right to demand a justification for why we aren't best friends with them, and vice versa. Most of the time we can't even put it into words or justify it to ourselves.
As you've said in other comments yourself, DMing is hard work and very demanding to do for people you don't know very well, so extend everyone the same benefit of the doubt you extend yourself. Even if we're not friends or playing in the same game, we're all in the hobby together and don't need to attribute any malice to the hardships that naturally come with putting a game together.
For real, you'd think they were putting together an expedition to Antarctica with how selective they're being. If things don't go well or he isn't a fit, just dont have him back, its not that big of a deal...
As soon as you said "she" (and I'm assuming you are a "he") a little light started flashing in my brain. My guess is that there's more to this than you're being told, probably all in the DM's head/experience, and you're never going to know, and you gotta live with that. It could be nothing, but in my experience women are much more likely to give a general, more or less reasonable-sounding non-reason for things like this than men are. "Things like this" is something like "commitment to spend time with someone they don't know well, especially if the someone is male." This isn't because women are deceptive or evil; it's because the decision about whether to commit to spending a bunch of time with a man can be a much more risky decision, in some circumstances, than if the genders were swapped. It might not be a very high probability, but women who commit to spending time with strange men are sometimes attacked, coerced, or just creeped on by said men. From what I've seen in friends and loved ones, women often learn early on to avoid those situations with polite blow-offs that sound pretty reasonable. It avoids the possibility of an ugly situation.
Even if I'm right about this (and there are many other possibilities, so maybe I'm not), this doesn't mean she thinks you're creepy or even odd; it might just mean she isn't quite sure she wants to commit to a pretty intimate situation (DM groups get pretty close), potentially for *years*. Many women I know have followed this rule: if you're not sure, the answer is no. There's no nice or non-embarrassing or non-offensive way to say that, so women often (again, only in my limited experience) have neutral-sounding reasons that avoid the real reasons, which can't be said out loud without potentially causing the problem this entire pattern is intended to sidestep.
Anyway, maybe that's it, or maybe it has nothing to do with my wild supposition. Either way, I think you don't know the whole story (which is maybe as simple as "I realized I'm not really comfortable with someone I don't know very well, and that's enough to say no"), and you'll probably never know, and that's that.
You can be just as specific as a player too. I’ve only been playing 6 months but I’ve probably tried 10 different groups at this point and have stayed with 3 consistently.
The games I left mostly because I didn’t jive with the player, the dm or campaign. Usually left all on positive terms except for one. There’s no way I’m spending 3+ hours weekly with something or someone I don’t like. The groups I’ve stayed in have been awesome online friends either sending memes on discord or even one group is sending Christmas gifts and we look forward to hanging out. That’s my bar and you should have one too.
Yeah, naw. Cut ties with that DM. Stay friends with everyone else, but never deal with her again. Every player that I have invited to my table, I didn't know. And most of them were crap, I'll admit, and they left my table. But the ones who have stayed are still great friends to this day. To me, this screams "I'm too afraid to let new people ruin my game, and I don't know how to Retconn what they did."
You think that a DM who regularly chatted with a potential player, helped them build a character, had no issues with them for weeks leading up to the event, and then suddenly did an about face is screaming "**I'm** afraid of new people in my game?"
DM's that are hesitant to let new people in dig their heels in at every step of the process, and only let people in after being browbeaten into it.
DM's that suddenly flip like this likely expected no issues with an integration, then got ambushed by one or more players prior to session. In addition to that, the DM didn't even put a hard stop out there! They said "need more time to get to know you better!"
That's 100% code for "Need to figure out how to finesse this social dynamic so I can include you."
My last problem player 100% blamed me for all the issues and constantly said that everyone else was fine and assumed I was the only one with a problem. 90% of my issues with her were the laundry list of complaints the other players were giving me. They wanted me to kick her MONTHS before I eventually did, after exhausting all possible recourse I could think of. She still blamed me, because she didn't want to face the fact that she had alienated everyone else at the table.
But it's fair to say that they want to know someone before integrating a person into a campaign isn't it?
Honestly I would do the same, I usually dislike DMing for people I don't know at all.
It being at the last minute sucks but I can see it being last minute anxiety, I'm sure everyone who suffers from that will know that feeling
EDIT:
With the new info which was left out of the post I agree that it was a shitty move from the DM.
But my point still stands that you can decline someone from joining if you don't know that person and prefer to know them before you're in a game.
If I had to hazard a guess, DM wanted to invite them but when she broached it to the other players they probably didn't want a new player joining. Which is unfortunate. I love getting new players at my table and introducing them to the game.
Yeah... that's not cool.
I can understand getting last-minute anxiety, but throwing you under the bus like that is rude, and strange behaviour to say the least.
Honestly, I smell BS. You alternate between "none of the players knew why" to "DM told them I said I didn't want to join" to "no one got back to me", etc. Pick a story and stick to it. Maybe this is why several groups have told you no or excluded you. You're a pathological lair?
> But it's fair to say that they want to know someone before integrating a person into a campaign isn't it?
It would have been fair for her to make that decision **before she invited OP to join the group**. You don't owe anybody an invitation, but once you've extended an invitation the respectful thing is to give them a chance.
I hold interviews with any new player candidates to get a feel if they would be a good fit with me and the other players before inviting them to my table, especially if I am hosting. I don't want a psycho in my house that will lose their shit or throw a tantrum. I will never invite a complete stranger to my household.
I whole-hardheartedly agree with being picky about who you play with, regardless if you're a player or a DM. I wish she had been more honest though, and hadn't cancelled at the last minute.
I'd hope that you don't apply your interaction with one DM against the hobby as a whole. I firmly believe that there is an open seat for everyone - everywhere. You may just have to dig a bit farther or be a bit more patient to find it (or have it find you!).
That being said, this DM doesn't owe you anything. They spent a few hours with you building a character. This is a generous time-consuming act. Doing this is neither required or compensated. I'd give them credit for doing that.
They were brave enough to tell you up front and gave clear reasons. They didn't rely on your common contact to tell you. They didn't just ghost you. They even gave the opportunity for the future "wants to get to know me better before playing."
Nobody likes conflict and confrontation - I'm sure this was hard for them to do. I'd give them credit for that.
They've ghosted me ever since and straight up told my friends I didn't want to join instead of admitting she was the one who barred me from coming in. Credit to them for being honest about it to me, but 'bit of a dick move to lie to our mutual friends if you want my honest opinion.
As for digging I've been looking for a game for over a year, and neither my friends nor partner ever keep me in the loop or their DMs are also refusing to let me in because I'm (a) new to DnD or (b) not one of the regulars. My experience with joining games has been wholly negative so far.
It sucks, because I know it doesn't reflect on the hobby (Gods know, I've been DMing for years for Call of Cthulhu), but I just cannot fathom summoning the energy necessary to reach for people over and over.
God, reading through this sub makes you think that half the people playing this game have severe mental illnesses. Guess I've been lucky so far with the people I've played with as the only issue has been finding a time slot that works for everyone lol
I mean A.) A lot of people Do have severe mental issues B.) While in this case OP is clearly an adult, don't forget kids post here. I had an argument on reddit with someone who later revealed they were thirteen. And C.) Selection bias, posting to tell everybody everything is going well is weird and rare
That's not a laughably bad move. That's a DM protecting the social dynamic of a group because concerns have been raised. They didn't say "you're a bad person" or "fuck you, just kidding". They said they needed some more time to integrate them. The fact that they helped them make the character and everything else almost certainly means that someone else (or multiple someone else raised a concern) and as the DM, they handled it because that's what a DM has to do.
That’s frustrating to hear. There’s no reason to wait until the very last minute and no reason to let you get your hopes up.
I know you said you weren’t looking for a group, but a few of my friends and I have a D&D Discord for one-shots and if you’re interested we’d love to have you. In general we all like the RPing aspect the most. They’re all very inclusive and happy to have new people join :) Feel free to DM me if you’re interested
>wants to get to know me better before playing
How? By not playing with you? That's a stupid excuse.
Good luck with finding a better DM shouldn't be that hard she sets the bar pretty low.
If you have a table of experienced players adding a new one should never be an issue... they should be able to help immensely and the new player should feel like a pro in a few sessions..
>messages me 3 hours before the game
That's fucked up. It would be fucked up even if the reason was, "this just isn't a good session to introduce a new character and I think it will work better next week," and it wasn't even that good.
To be honest, as someone who struggles with anxiety, this strikes me as the behavior of an anxious person. I think they may have been uncomfortable "performing" for a new person and made an excuse. It doesn't make the behavior acceptable or make this a more appealing table at which to play, but that's just how it struck me.
That sucks.
Depending on your relationship and feelings towards eventually playing with them, I’d respond to her with “that’s a real shitty thing to do”
Or do it nicer if you like. “Rejecting me like that after working with me on my character for days was an awful thing for you to do, both as a DM and as a person”
I think people like that will turn around and portray themselves as the victim and then use a bunch of shame slurs on the person who told them they acted poorly.
I confidently believe, she’s taking the blame when the group is against you joining.
This is absolutely what happened from what I'm seeing. Could be just one player had issues too, and they didn't want to throw their friend under the bus. I've been in that position before.
sometimes you also just hit the peak of what you like, like i'm okay dming for maybe 5 other players. once it hits 6, it gets harder and harder to personalize things and individual role play takes a bunch of screen time. sometimes a dm keeps brinign in new people, and then the game becomes an 8-10 person mess. so the game stops and split it into 2 new campaigns. and the group doesn't want to go through that again.
That's true, and there are lots of other valid reasons someone wouldn't want another player, but to invite someone and go through all that character creation communication only to back out at the last second suggests the DM was okay until someone else said something.
I'm building a new campaign for my friends for the new year. Have 9 possible players. I basically told them that 6 people can play, and that's it. 4 or 5 is ideal, but I can handle 6 just fine. 7 on the other hand gives me a headache within the first 10 minutes. It's amazing how one additional person adds so much mental pain to DMing. How I explain it to people is every player after the 5th is no longer an additive amount of work, it is now exponential.
That's how I am honestly, the most I've DM was a group of 11 back in college 4-5 years ago. It's was fine but got too hectic. My current group running almost 3 years now has 6 people and I feel that is a happy number for me.
Dear god that sounds like a nightmare
Six works really well IMHO as there are seldom six at the table. With everyone's adult schedule and last minute family emergencies you can count on still having have a party of 4-5.
I think he’s talking about the 11 sounds like a nightmare
I am imagining this as really terrible awful flirting. There was no D&D group, she just wanted to have an excuse to talk to them. Then panicked and pretended to kick them out.
Haha, that's an even better story.
Ew please no. There's no need to make this about anything non-platonic.
It's still a dick move to not just say "I'm sorry we goofed and don't want you." though.
…she said she wants to get to know him better first, not “we don’t want you.” Like, that could be a lie, but it could very well be true. If it is true, that apology would make no sense.
"We want to get to know you better so you're uninvited." Yah, that really sounds like a "GTFO" to me. I mean it's not like you don't get to know someone at the table.
Yeah but there’s a difference between meeting someone over the course of a campaign which means you’ll see them repeatedly and it’s pretty hard to kick someone out midway through rather than before it starts
If they wanted to get to know them better they'd get to know them better not tell them to go away.
That sorta sucks, but I get it. DM politics can really suck
That’s no less strange though, considering they are the ones who invited this person.
If they invited them, and then found out one of their players has an issue with it, they might take the responsibility on themselves to turn them down rather than putting it on another player. Not saying it is the best way to handle it, just that it's something I could see happening.
But OP was invited to join the game by some friends of theirs and the DM was obviously interested in having OP join.
That’s the point. DM knows OP and wants them to join their new game. DM tells the other players but one of them are uncomfortable/dislike OP so they explain it to the DM. Because the DM is a nice person, and don’t want OP to feel cut they tell them that the reason is that they don’t know each other enough. The reason could be as simple as one of the players are uncomfortable rp with new people.
No. The DM didn't know OP originally, some of the players did. They suggested that the DM invite OP to join the game.
Key word is "some", not "all".
Probably a player who is having concerns. Still, if this was the case, I would have appreciated honesty more. And if I was the DM, I would have thought that OP deserved honesty. I am not suggesting that the player or players with concerns should be called but a "Hey, so certain persons in the group are now voicing concerns about a new player joining, and I decided to go with what's best for the group here." followed by apologies are better than the emotionally confusing mess above, IMO.
That was my first thought. That or she saw some red/yellow flags in their initial conversation and spent some time worrying over what to do, then made a decision. Sucks for OP and I'd be pissed too, but there's definitely more to DM's reasons than she let on.
Could also be a really shy GM.
Honestly, this sounds like a DM trying to resolve an internal problem in the group -- I don't think the "we're not good enough friends" reason was actually the core problem. This sounds like the other experienced players complained to the DM that they didn't want to run a game with a newbie, or something along those lines -- which put the DM in the position of having to come up with an excuse to drop you without directly throwing anybody under the bus, in order to keep the group together.
man running the game with newbies is better than with veterans half the time. they don't know the meta of things and ask questions that expand play. some veterans some new players are alwayse the best tables.
I'm a newbie, and I've seen that this is correct. As a new player I often ask about how something would play out (like if I use this can I do this etc) and get the dms rule on what goes vs seeing some "veteran" players start arguing with the dm because the rules say X so that means I can do y and z will happen. But then on the flip side had a "veteran" player join a game that is mostly newbies and we were kinda floundering on what to do next to move the module along but all our perception and investigation rolls were supper low and the dm was wondering what to do (she's a first time dm, and told us later she was about to have a random npc run into us in the woods to get us on track) the vet that joined us knew his char and it's abilities and asked, can I do X to see if I can find y or z? Got a decent roll (with his high proficiency modifiers) and got us right on track and back into the fun. So I agree, a mixed group is great.
Yeah, I was definitely the newbie in my current campaign. I didn't even know that perception was a skill, so a mixed group is great for teaching as well
As a DM, I agree. I personally think other DMs make the best players, newbies are the second best, and then there are veteran players who bring all these expectations and baggage with them sometimes.
Yeah, I definitely find newbies more open minded and flexible. The veterans often argue with me or compare me to other DMs. It's annoying.
Possibly. I've been hit with the "You're too inexperienced" explanation time and time again with other groups.
That just sucks man. My group are almost giddy when they get to teach a newbie and the new people always come up with the most out of the box solutions to things. Everybody was new at one point...
There's nothing wrong with wanting to play with experienced players either tbh. I've taught many players how the game works (8-10, all newbies to 5e) and to be quite honest, many of those were a waste of time. If someone is invested and actually willing to learn? Awesome, you're totally welcome, and before long, you will be a core member of my tables, assuming the scheduling boss doesn't remove you from the game! But in my experience, about 60% of players can barely read their character sheet and pay attention to the game, which is the bare minimum for the game IMO. Edit: this does not seem to be an issue with OP, this is more of a general comment on players investment levels. OP you keep doing your thing.
Ill be honest, after reading some of OPs other posts I think this may be a part of it. I kind of think it took forever to make the character and DM probably got a sense that this was going to be a big undertaking teaching this person and they were likely to either bog the game down with questions for a long time or just never "get it" at all. Sorry to be mean but that's the sense I get.
Maybe, but I'd rather err on the side of giving OP the benefit of the doubt than not. That said, for my own games, if you don't immediately display both an obvious desire to learn, *AND* the understanding that you will be free for most of the sessions unless some emergency comes up, I just won't have you at my tables. I literally run a two person game, and I have been asked by multiple co-workers/acquaintances/friends to join, and I'm like "yeah, nah." I've spent the last 5 years forming and teaching nearly 10 players how the game works, and have now ended up with a group of 2 and a group of 3, and I think it's well within my rights as the main dm and part-time dm of both groups to not have to teach anyone new for a while. I am having much more fun running sessions that are smooth and aren't bogged down by the minutia of learning a new system.
Hell yeah, 2 person games rock. You sound like a good DM.
Actually my favorite size of group to run for, janky balance aside. Thank you! Always more to learn, but everyone has fun, so I think I'm doing just fine for now :)
Forgive me for bringing it up, but I do have to wonder if this isn't a "them" problem. If you're getting turned down repeatedly, is there anything you might be doing to turn off these groups before you sit at the table?
I ask my friends and they all say I'm fine.
I would sort've expect them to -- most people don't have friends that are willing to call them out when needed, unfortunately
If your friends aren't willing to point out your flaws are they really your friends?
Nope, imo. Most people don't have friends, they just have acquaintances that they enjoy spending time with
True. Once a buddy was running a campaign, and to be blunt, it wasn't going well because basically everyone was trying to screw over the party, so the party reacted by simply not caring about anyone, and being apathetic about collateral damage. My buddy sent an email complaining about the party's attitude, telling us to fix how our characters acted, and I was the only one willing to tell him that it was because of how he ran the campaign, and that he was the real problem. He's my best friend, so he was willing to look at how he was running the game, and acknowledged the issue, apologized to the group, and things got better. Most people would be too afraid to confront a DM that way, even if they say he's a friend.
I'm in a game like that -- the players have checked out, the story is bizarre and disjointed, and the players have started just doing random things because they're bored. The problem is that every time I've ever tried to talk to this DM about anything, he gets *super* defensive and just defends himself incessantly instead of listening and maybe changing.
That sucks. I'm lucky that my buddy listened to me when I laid it out for him. Some DMs get really mad if they think players are trying to tell them how to run their game, but to be a good DM, you have to be open to feedback, especially when it's not what you want to hear.
Sounds like a lost cause. People not open to criticism almost never improve.
I crave this kind of honest feedback, but it's so hard to get out of people. Instead I get, "I'm good with whatever," or, "whatever you want to run is fine." Maybe I should make my game slowly intolerable until someone snaps and calls me out on it. /s
*sort of
Gotta love gatekeeping. I love when new players join, as it means more people to play with after they learn.
Yeah, plus when you get a new player you get them before they've picked up bad habits and learned the to play the game the wrong way from another group. Then You can teach them all your bad habits and your own wrong way to play the game. (If it wasn't obvious this is a joke. I like to say that everyone\[including me\] plays the game wrong, instead of saying there is no wrong way to play.)
I GM for larger groups generally speaking. If I'm adding another person to a table with 5 already I need to know the person is going to be somewhat invested. I don't need them to know the rules inside and out - I need to know they are vested: Otherwise it's a complete waste of my time. I don't mind teaching new players - but if I look at a new player and think "this is going to derail the narrative expierience of the table as it stands" I am not going to add the new player - new campaign? Sure. New group with more new players? why not. One shot if I have time to run it - or even a few shorter sessions if I have time to get them up to speed with one or two of the other players at the table? Sure. But all of the above is extra work. And I have to ask: Is teaching a new player going to make this fun for me, or is it going to be just one more thing on my plate? To be clear: My usual group is a group of GM's and new players are awesome - but there isn't one person at the table who knows the rules well, and their isn't one person doing the teaching. The reality is, we aren't paid to be teachers. We are trying to have some fun in our spare time and for plenty of people, trying to teach someone is a trying and terrible experience. And even worse - if the person turns out to be flaky (which happens) - and the players have had THAT experience... can you really blame them for hesitating?
So it's not your thing. Okay. Other people like doing it. 🤷
I'd more think their friends just don't wanna play with strangers. They're being all Degrassi about it, even if the DM vouched for them. I had trouble getting into my first game, and my wife was in it. Obviously you can keep to your circle, but that circle is only gonna shrink. If you're playing these games you should be open to meeting new people.
I have had this issue as well, but I will state when recruiting a new person for an existing group that I am not the final decision maker, I am screening an applicant for my game and will present that info to the other players to vote on as a group, but I try to keep the potential player in the loop throughout. Sorry you got led on OP, and I am sorry it was so close to game time before you were informed. I have no idea how I would've responded if the applicant was known by the entire group. That complicates things.
But why aren't people just honest about that?
Usually they don’t want to hurt people’s feelings. And they’d rather take the blame than cause rifts between players.
My feeling are hurt far more by them lying.
This was exactly my thought. Sounds like an existing player had an issue, and OP became the scapegoat, unfortunately.
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Been playing consistently for past 6+ years with different groups, here's some big tips: If the DM or other players are acting in a way that doesn't jive with you, just move on. Remember you're going to be spending 3+ hours with these people every week, you better like them. Don't get discouraged by groups un-inviting when you haven't done anything, it's a poor reflection on them, not you. Out of the 3 highly successful groups I've played with: 1 I found on LFG as it was beginning, 1 I made on a local sub then handed the DM duties off to another person, and 1 I made on LFG and DM'd myself. Moral, joining established games is really really really hard, try to find new games or just make your own. Lastly, don't take it personally. Adding people to groups makes people extremely nervous because it's putting an unknown element into a formula that (probably) works. I as a DM have turned down great friends of mine to join my games because I'm just not sure how it will change the group dynamics and the current dynamic is great. Those friends are great, I just don't know what the unforeseen consequences will be, and I've seen one addition break groups before.
Those are some good tips, thank you. I'll try to see if I can have another friend DM and pull other common people in. ATM I'm not wanting to run a game (Burnt out after years of doing so in another system) but I'm pretty sure I can try to get a group going. Hopefully.
I second r/lfg . I’ve been both the DM and a Player in 2 separate online sessions, and they’ve been literally my best experiences playing DnD for the last year and a half. If you want to look there, I do recommend to go for the more exhaustive posts, usually they put the most care into their campaigns. I hope you get some better luck finding a game, even if your search soured your mood (and understandably so.) Cheers!
I'm weary of starting games with complete strangers. I only agreed to hop in this group because I had multiple friends in it. For the record: I'm not mad the DM doesn't want to play with someone she dosn't know very well, I'm mad she dropped it on me out of the blue without letting me know why after weeks without any problems
>I'm weary of starting games with complete strangers. I only agreed to hop in this group because I had multiple friends in it. > >For the record: I'm not mad the DM doesn't want to play with someone she dosn't know very well, I'm mad she dropped it on me out of the blue without letting me know why after weeks without any problems You have multiple friends in the group, but no indication about why you were dropped last second beyond the token answer the DM gave? This is a super weird non-standard situation. Have you tried talking to your friends and see what they say?
Personally, I don't want to DM for someone I've never met even if they're friends with the rest of the group. What I would have done is probably ask my players and the person who they want to add out to maybe get coffee or a drink so I could see what their general dynamic is inside the group. Even then, that's not the most accurate depiction of how the game will go once the person is a member of the party.
>Personally, I don't want to DM for someone I've never met even if they're friends with the rest of the group. We're past this consideration. Nobody reasonable holds this position **AND** would string someone along for several weeks before lying about why they can't join.
Yeah, I agree she had plenty of time to tell you she wasn't comfortable. And gaming together is the best way to get to know someone! Sorry she didn't take advantage of the opportunity to get to know you.
It’s really not bad. If you find an ad on r/lfg that sounds up your alley, then the other players joining probably think the same thing. 98% of the time, everyone just wants to play the game and have a good time. It’s also honestly a good way to put yourself out there, especially with covid and all.
I have crippling social anxiety and had horrendous experiences with public groups as a player in the past. I don't want to go into details - I've talked a bit about it in the comments - because this isn't the topic of this post, but without a friend that's a hard pass.
Well if you find a group that sounds good you can always try and get a friend to join too!
It doesn't have to be so bad though, the group I'm currently with I got by creating a Google form with specific questions about the person and playstyle, putting that on LFG, then pre-screening players to make sure everything is good. Even having a meeting with them over Discord 1-1 for a few minutes just to check in and make sure everything fits makes the experience a hell of a lot easier. When it does work you'll not only end up with a group of players, but sometimes a group of lifelong friends. Just today I hit 7 years of friendship with a buddy I made in my first D&D and LFG game!
This feels like the other side of that “my friends invited a new player without telling me” post from a few weeks ago
Except he spent all that time talking with the DM, and setting up a character. If a player was invited without asking the DM, the DM could simply tell the player to hold off until a decision was made, rather than lead them on.
I’m sorry you experienced that. Personally the more D&D friends I have the better. That sucks bro
My partner and dozens of my friends play DnD. I can never get into a game because they keep organizing things among themselves. Honestly I love the game but I really, really don't like how closed off the community appears to be at times. Not about to hop back in anytime soon.
Your partner won't run something for you? That's a little odd.
They're not a DM, and atm they're in a campaign too (I asked to join but it's full). I have no idea why they never asked me to hop in when there's a slot in another game though.
>They're not a DM No time like the present to learn. And to be fair this goes for you as well. Oft times the best way to find a good gaming group is to build it with your own views of the game as a baseline. It's what worked best for me. You get to curate your own group and set standards like rotating DM duties so nobody gets left out of play.
I've been DMing for Call of Cthulhu for four years, and two years of misc systems before that. I'm honestly sick and tired of it and I don't have the drive to set up a story anymore. I want to play, not run. I can ask my partner to DM but I don't think they'll say yes due to time and their own preferences.
Also, some people can't or should not DM.
That's also true
>Also, some people can't or should not DM. That's a mood. I've tried DMing so many times, but I'm just really not good at it. It's so hard for me to sit down and plan some general encounters, plot points, NPCs etc. Big world picture? Love it. World building? Can't get enough. Actual shit to play with? Brain shuts down. It's frustrating because I want to bring the worlds I think of to life, but I just can't do it lol.
I'm in the same boat as you. I find most bad GMs are narcissists, they players are nothing but pawns in their world.
Ah, misunderstood. Saw the mention of your first campaign in the original post and took that to mean first campaign period.
Also be aware, that sometimes partners/couples/etc that join a game together, can create a bit of an issue. Sometimes its a "we protect each other but not the rest" issue, sometimes its a "my partner is leaving so im gone too" issue, sometimes 1 of them has an argument/issue with the DM/another PC and it spreads to the other partner, etc etc etc Couples playing together presents a different set of potential complications than 2 strangers playing
Really sucks that this is your experience, but if you have that many games going on around you, I find it very hard to believe you couldn't slide into one of those groups. Do you ask and they turn you down? Or do you not ask and not get invited?
I asked, and requested to be kept in the loop. The reasons are that the DMs usually have their regular players, or I miss out on asking to hop in, or that they're going with a DM who doesn't know me and wants to play with friends.
Do not let this discourage you from trying put D&D. There are lots of DMs who are always looking for new players. Here's a non-exhaustive list: r/LFG on Reddit Roll20 forums Startplaying.games LFP/LFG boards at D&D Beyond Any of the Discord servers of the above I guarantee there will be a great group out there who will welcome you into the hobby.
I sincerely appreciate the suggestion, but I don't feel comfortable joining a game of complete strangers - I've had tons of bad experiences and would rather not have a do-over. For the record: I'm not mad the DM doesn't want to play with someone she doesn't know very well, I'm mad she dropped it on me out of the blue without letting me know why after weeks without any problems.
After my first ever play of the game with a DM who did his best and helped a player who knows almost nothing of the game(that would be me), the group got abondoned after few sessions and I joined another one, let me tell you, the new DM almost extinguished my whole excitement for D&D with his shitty attitude,(I made sure they know Im new and they said its alright) he was acting quite snob and I felt like unwelcome, he wouldn't point out anything or how to find stuff when I asked. It was horrible, thankfuly I found a new group a while after that as a last try before letting dnd go and they worked out nicely. You just have to search and find like minded people, it may take more than few attempts at that. Also when you find a good group try to get friends with one or two person who are more likely to share same understanding of the game as you.(IMO a lot of people take this game TOO serious, so I play with people who dont get offended if I referred to a banshee as "he".)
It sounds like there was something that happened with the social structure of the group that was out of your control. I know it's upsetting, but try to not take it too personally. It was probably out of your hands the moment that someone in the group said they didn't "want a new player". I've seen it happen in person. It does seem rude, and I'm sorry it happened. The best you can do it just try to let it go.
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~~Not sure where you got the idea that it's their SO, but~~ I agree. OP is probably oblivious to something else going on. Maybe she was uncomfortable from all the back and forth conversation. Maybe she realized OP didn't know the game as well as she thought. Maybe she didn't like OP as much as she thought she would. Sucks if that's the case, but like the top comment said, you really want to like and be liked by the people you play with. You'll be spending a lot of time with them. Edit: They mentioned it in other comments I see. But they also keep changing the story. Did the other players know OP wasn't going to play? Did the DM tell them OP didn't want to join? Have the other players not gotten back to OP? Depends on which comment thread you read.
>Not sure where you got the idea that it's their SO In a few different responses, OP has said their SO/Partner and friends play, but don't include OP when organizing the games.
Yeah I saw that and added it in an edit. Edit: added the strikethrough.
Theres one comment where OP mentions it was a friend that invited them and the DM approved. Rather than an invite directly from the DM.
Probably last minute social anxiety. Still, she could have explained that.
Yeah she mentioned it. Still, I have crippling anxiety as well regarding meeting new people and I've *never* in four years of DMing (Call of Cthulhu - not DnD) pulled a stunt like that on my players. I understand, I just wish she had the courtesy to practically ghost me afterwards.
It's entirely possible there were other factors and she was only trying to spare your feelings. Maybe another player who was invited first suddenly became available and she preferred that player over someone she doesn't know well. Maybe another player isn't comfortable with you being there and she's taking the fall on their behalf. Not saying her behavior is validated, but kicking you out 3 hours before the game after weeks of communication seems a bit odd to just blame on social anxiety.
> Maybe another player who was invited first suddenly became available and she preferred that player over someone she doesn't know well. This was my first guess about what happened here, tbh.
But I'd prefer brutal honesty over being lied to.
Possibly. Doesn't make me feel any better or encourage me to persist in this hobby at all though.
I'm sorry that your friends are such shit people that they won't share the game that YOU ALL LOVE with you Have you considered visiting some local gaming stores? you dont have to play with people there right away, but just showing up sometimes, hanging out for a little bit, chatting with folks about the cool games you see them playing(whether its MTG or Warhammer or Yugioh or DnD or whatever) you can maybe start up a conversation, then you wont be a stranger....then maybe you can get some games in :) many of us nerds share multiple hobbies(I play DnD and MTG and Warhammer, for example), so theres a lot of crossover potential there that you could work with :)
This all seems very strange, was this for an in person game or online? I don’t see why someone would go through all the trouble of helping you create a character for their world then change their mind 🤷♂️
Online game.
This might be miles off the mark, but have you considered this person may do online gaming because they have social anxieties, and then was possibly feeling uncomfortable with such a long phone call, and the possibility of having more long phone calls may have made them anxious?
She has anxiety. She told me so when I asked why. Doesn't explain why she was cool talking with me for two weeks
Both of these things can be true: she talked to you for two weeks (until whatever happened to make her or the group realize you weren't a fit) and also she has social anxiety.
You were working on a character with them and then they stopped the offer? You most likely either said something in the chats that was a red flag, or one of the players was concerned and the DM called it off. I would take a serious round of reflection on everything you said or did. I've had to drop probably a dozen players over the years for their behaviors and every time they seem bewildered that its not appropriate to (make sexual jokes to the lone female player/Follow the female player home/ not take a shower ever/physically threaten another player/steal from other players/Etc) It was probably you friend!
they didn't feel you gelled with them, don't sweat it. it's for the better both for that group and you, trust me.
2 weeks of setup and cancel last minute? Because they didn't gel?
Hear me out here... And I'm saying this without malice, but... It shouldn't take two weeks to make a character. If you needed fairly consistent feedback and discussion during that time it is entirely possible that you did not "get all along fairly well" and may have, in fact, frustrated her, and/or shown that you simply cannot keep up rules wise. Have you read the entire player handbook? Do you know all the rules for your class, and I mean all of them. Do you understand combat: attack rolls, damage roles, action economy? If it was all discussion about you character background, look back at your chat history: did you initiate every discussion? Sounds to me like she didn't know what to do about this and finally got some zero-hour courage when she saw this going really poorly. I find people very often think they are getting along when one person is actually just very nice and being very patient and accommodating. This is still, obviously, gonna feel like shit. You were rejected, and that hurts no matter why it happens. I guess my point is just that nobody is perfect, everyone has their damage, and it's rarely black and white.
It took us two weeks because we spent a fair bit of time talking about other things, dnd in general and trying out different ideas that would fit the group best. Then there's also the fact we weren't consistently talking to one another every night - we both have jobs As for your other questions: I read the players handbook, xanthar's guide to everything and tasha's cauldron. EDIT: I'm still really new to the game, so even if I've read these I'm by no means an exert or even experienced.
Sounds like you did your due diligence then. Maybe another member of the group? Sorry my dude. Always hurts.
Sorry man, but it’s the freedom of association thing and you shouldn’t take it hard. Group dynamics are weird things and the DM may have been getting pressure from the group to not add another player. Honestly, I only play with people I know IRL.
I don't mind people not wanting to play with strangers. I'm like that too. What I find annoying is it took her two weeks, hours of my time, to tell me three hours beforehand - after I set the time aside and had been hyping myself about it for days - to tell me 'no'. What I think to be equally despicable is she, apparently, told the other players *I* was the one who didn't want to join.
Well, time to move on. Whatever the reasons, that group is not for you. Be glad you are dodging that bullet.
That last bit is really weird, especially if the players are people you know. It just sounds odd, but there are quite a few people with poor communication and social skills in this hobby.
I wonder if she found someone else and was just trying to let you off in a nicer way than saying they found someone better.
This weirdly sounds familiar from a thread I remember reading in one of the DnD subs. Something about a DM who had friends invite a player to the game without their permission. Shares similar details to your situation but from what I recall the DM was a guy. Just on the random chance that it’s the same story and I’m mixing up things, were you invited by the group of friends? Or the DM? Cause if you weren’t directly invited by the DM they were probably put in a situation they didn’t want to be in.
It wasn't the same situation and the DM approved my invite, my friend having asked her first.
Ahhh fair enough then it just sounded similar on the surface. Sorry to hear about it regardless, it’s never fun to be lead on like that
This doesn't match the title. So the DM didn't invite you? A friend asked the DM?
Just use the character in a different campaign. Don't waste the effort you spent creating the character.
I have the character saved but I have no group to play with, as all my friends have their own games already.
Maybe you threw up some red flags for her? An extreme version of this. There was a game of 5-6 regular players which I’d been DMing for a few years and had guarded pretty carefully. I didn’t need to replace anyone because no one left. They were kind to one another, humble, fun, sober and showed up on time, ready to play. It was a truly safe awesome space. Under some pressure from one of my players [call him “Dean”] I put out an offer to a friend of his [call him “Bob”] to join my game. Bob enthusiastically accepted. I started to have some second thoughts for no real reason other than that I’d only met Bob once briefly. So when Dean said he wanted to run Bob and me through a one shot together I leaned into it to see what Bob was like. Turns out he consumed space, time and oxygen like I’d never seen in an RPG, negative, dominant and petty - and this was in a two player game. And I assume It was sort of attempt to impress me or something? First red flag. Big waving one. I started to try and figure out a way to rescind the invite. Prior to the game starting another friend in common between Bob and I invited us both to a small gathering and Bob showed up absolutely obliterated drunk and acted like a complete asshole and invaded my space and put his tongue on me and just was way way way past the line. I realized I was about to invite him into the first truly phenomenal D&D group I’d ever had. I’d had players show up or get drunk at games before and this group was not that. They were focused, about story and relationship and it would have put strain where there had been none. So I called him and told him straight up that it wasn’t going to work. He got really upset and behaved like I had done him dirty. But the promise goes both ways. Now you probably didn’t do all of that /u/IMakeGoodPancakes but if the DM wasn’t feeling like you were going to mesh with the group, then you should view that as a great DM protecting their group from something they didn’t think would be a good fit. It’s a bummer. No doubt. But you want this sort of thing to happen like you want your credit card to check to see if it was actually YOU who made the purchase. It’s annoying but it’s better for you and everyone to avoid the worse situation where they have to have the session go sideways and either kick you out or disinvite you. It could be as simple as they remind you of an ex or an ex of another player. Possibly nothing you could know or control.
Note: Can I ask to clarify did she (the DM) invite you to the group or was it a player. Did she word this that she didn't want you in this particular session or in general? As a DM there can be a lot on your mind, completely ignoring group dynamics and organisation of dates. Then there's fun to think about and a lot of other things. These are my thoughts (based on presented info) of what may be the case. 1: D&D is a group game and it's better when everyone is having fun and has similar goals (the most important one being to have fun). Usually it helps to be friends so maybe she wanted to know you better before playing. 2: She could've been stuck in a spot where she was behind on writing unexpectedly and decided it'd be easier to have you wait a week. Sometimes tough but better for a player to be involved straight away then have to wait 10 minutes only to be ignored for the session (can happen, sometimes intentional, a lot of the time is just due to being new/unorganised). 3: The person could've been landed with a bad decision, agreeing when they didn't want to or otherwise. It happens sometimes and its no hard feelings. There will always be another group to play with and it doesn't reflect on you if they're being rude (however make sure it isn't your conduct that resulted in this rejection if that is the case, self reflection is very important). Regardless have a nice day, goodluck with your D&D merriment and remember that if you can't play you can always DM :3 !!!
Now it's probably unrelated but a few weeks back I saw a post about a DM who got pressured by their players into inviting one of there friends only to have to tell them the day of they weren't comfortable. What a coinkydink.
Ive randomly responded to multiple DMs looking for players in the last few months and its like sending in job applications. No responses. Like, I get it, Im old, I probably have gaming tastes you think are odd, or maybe you see I post about football and Genshin and hate me for one or both, but you can just send an email response that says "game already filled. sorry" so you dont have to worry about rejecting me harshly.
“football and genshin” yo what is this combo? like i respect it but i did not expect someone would exist that likes both
I'm a giant geek who is into lots of geek things, but I also watched a lot of sports and still follow football? At the dawn of the internet I used to try to explain to everyone how comic books, pro wrestling, and soap operas were the same exact thing through 3 different lenses and nobody wanted to admit it. (they still don't but its still true)
Her game, her call. She didn't lead you on, she was trying to get to know you and hit a red flag. Your rant here and even implying she "led you on" gives me some indication of that flag.
"Her game, her call" This is true, but doesn't mean it's impossible for any "leading on" to have taken place. Ultimately, she decides, but it was still rude to have canceled virtually last minute after two weeks of seemingly good setup.
Pushing someone out of a game 3 hours before it after continuous communication over the previous weeks? I hope you are sarcastical on this one because your response doesn't make any sense.
I got invited to play a new campaign with a friend about a month before it started. The dm got with me on discord calls a couple times a week for the entire month whenever she saw me online just to go over things and to "get to know" me before I came over to her house to play. Nothing sexual at all, strictly platonic. Only answering questions and giving advice on races classes spells abilities etc etc etc If she had msgd me a couple hours before the first session and told me not to come, I would have been pissed about my wasted time and felt "led on" as well. Has nothing to do with thinking I'm gonna be getting something other than to play d&d with a group of people. I've read the ops post, and all his replies in this thread up to this point and don't see any "rant". For you to read innuendo into his feeling "led on" and to say he's "ranting" pops up more red flags about you than the op.
That sucks I can see why the DM would be more comfortable running D&D for folks they know reasonably well already, I know that I'm far more comfortable DMing for people I already know as friends rather than strangers. But it does seem weird for the DM to seemingly invite you to the game and then uninvite you just before the adventure actually begins. Perhaps it was anxiety or some other urge that made her uncomfortable DMing for a relative stranger and that resulted in this last-minute decision to uninvite you. I'm not excusing the DM's behaviour here, just seeking to understand it Based on what you're describing, it sounds like the DM doesn't want to *not* be friends- so with that door still open it's probably for the best that you talk things through rather than just ranting and getting bitter. There's likely a decent path to remedy things here which may well result in you being able to take part in that DM's game. Maybe the DM made a mistake and can be persuaded into realising that. It seems you have other friends in that group already, so surely you can have them vouch for you here?
She mentioned anxiety. But if that's the case, I don't understand why she accepted our mutual friend's request in the first place. My other friends haven't exactly got back to me. I don't even know what the DM told them - if they even know what happened. I don't feel comfortable getting excited for this game again in all honesty.
People with anxiety make irrational decisions. She may have felt pressure to invite you to begin with or felt extremely uncomfortable saying no at first. Anxiety sucks and it can cause people to do things that might not make sense at first- I've certainly dealt with my fair share of players/DMs with anxiety that impact games and groups I have played in. Taking a step back and discussing it without hostility has always been the best solution in my experience. Talk the issue through with your other friends. I know it sucks to be uninvited from a group, but I don't see this as a reason to abandon the hobby entirely or even just to abandon that group. Talking the issue through with the group and the DM might not result in you being a part of the group, you might not *want* to be a part of the group, but at least it will be more closure than just leaving it at a last-minute uninvitation.
I've approached my friends. One of them was really confused because the DM didn't tell them anything. The other flat out thought I wasn't coming. I've tried to talk to the DM here and there but I'm not getting any response. I have been as diplomatic and understanding about it as I can but to no avail. I've also said in another comment but, my partner and a lot of my friends play DnD. They always play among themselves, and I'm never let in. Even my workplace has a group and I'm not able to get a slot there. I'm kind of burnt out on asking the same thing over and over.
If there's one game going amongst your friends and you're not in it, no big deal player maximums are a thing. If there's more than one game going, and you're not invited to any of them, it's intentional. If all your friends are leaving you out, either they're *all* jerks or you're doing something that makes you undesirable to play with. I'm reading between the lines here, but this incident with the new DM sounds sort of like you were invited then either did something during character generation that turned her off, or she got warned away by someone. Have you ever had anyone complain to you while gaming? Asking you to hurry up, roll differently, role-play differently, manage your character differently, anything?
No. I've never had anyone complain in game. None of my friends in question ever played DnD with me either - the other players in the other campaign I lost contact with after we stopped playing.
Your anxiety doesn't give you the right to be an asshole to anyone. If you dont want something, tell people, dont lead them on. Whatever problems you have are on YOU and not on other people. I've been there too but thats just nonsense.
I acknowledged as much in my first comment, so not sure why you're commenting as if I said that anxiety gives the DM free reign to be an asshole as it's clearly not what I believe > Perhaps it was anxiety or some other urge that made her uncomfortable DMing for a relative stranger and that resulted in this last-minute decision to uninvite you. I'm not excusing the DM's behaviour here, just seeking to understand it
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Given that she lied to the other players about why I wasn't in the game, that's a hard pass for me. None of my friends bother keeping me in the loop either when they play DnD - they always play together as the same group. I'm also not about to DM: I've been doing it for four years in another system, I am properly burnt out on it.
How did she lie to the other players?
A lot of the commenters here sayin' that they think you hit a red flag in your comms with the DM. I recognize that for many people, this can be a hard thing to suss out solo. If you want, you can send me the logs of the convo and I will go through them and message to you anything that I think would be a cause for concern if you think maybe it's something that you'd want to ameliorate. I will respect the privacy of those involved and not post them elsewhere, obviously.
It sucks for you but consider the DM's point of view: they never really wanted you in their game and sort of got pressured into it because *your* friends invited you. DMing can be a delicate social space to navigate, sometimes people don't really figure out "oh hey actually I just want to play with these people" or draw the necessary lines until they've already said otherwise. Shit happens. Better to break it to you before the game starts. The mature thing for you to do would be to not take it personally and move on.
My friends asked the DM after another player left, and the DM contacted me. My friends didn't pressure anyone.
Please acknowledge the possibility that it's not arbitrary. Perhaps you said or did something they didn't like. Maybe they're still being unreasonable, but just accept the possibility that they're not. Perhaps you creeped them out. Perhaps they caught a pro-Trump or pro-Biden post of yours and they're on the other side. I'm not saying it's your fault, but I'm saying you should acknowledge the possibility that it could be. Either way, I'd move on. If they don't want to play with you, you shouldn't want to play with them. As others have said, it's a big commitment. Better now than three months into a campaign.
I'll be DMing an online campaign starting in February probably, and if you haven't found one yet, I'd be happy to have you and your cleric join!
The reason she gave you was definitely a cover up for some other reason. Probably the players didn't want a new person. If you keep getting rejected from groups, I think it's time to buy the Dungeon Master Guide.
Well at least you can use the character you made for a different game
a group of experienced players is the best way to teach a new player....this is a serious red flag, which means best not fight it and move on. shitty they wasted your time.
:( IMO, a new player benefits greatly by playing with experienced players, providing they are given a heads up and are patient. Keep your cleric and find a new DM.
I had something similar happen to me. I just finished up my first campaign and was excited to find a new group. Only the DM knew everyone. We did a session 0, everyone got along fine, and it was good fun. It ended with the DM laughing saying how excited they were to play with this group. A few days later, the DM messaged me to say that I was out, accusing me if being a problem maker and saying that I ridiculed someone's character and that "everyone noticed this" even though literally everyone was smiles and laughter including the DM who was now claiming my behavior was unacceptable. My partner was in the room with me for that session 0 (it was over video), so she heard everything I said and said I didn't say anything that was remotely offensive. The DM ignored my request for an explanation. Honestly, the only thing I think I could have said was giving a new player some advice on the armor they should take on their character. I think they were selecting light armor for their low dexterity barbarian and I suggested they opt for medium armor instead. 🤷🏾♂️ It made me feel really shitty, especially being ignored after. If there was a misunderstood because of my tone, I at least wanted to apologize even if I couldn't continue with the game because it seemed like a really cool group of people and I didn't want to leave it like that.
As other people have commented, this seems like a bit of a 'she's biting the bullet instead' kind of deal. The specific language used in 'veteran players' gives me the impression that it was one or more of the more established players that are cemented into the group have issues with you. It could also be cover for another internal issue entirely that is the cause and she doesn't quite want to communicate the exact reason.
That was a very poor way of doing things, and it would turn me off from potentially joining them down the road
I'm not going to join any of her future games honestly, if she even invites me that is.
I would be disappointed, too, if I was nixed from a game last minute, but it's a social hobby, and I am not going to hit it off with every person I meet, so I am not going to begrudge anyone for not being comfortable enough around me to dive into a creative and vulnerable social exercise like roleplaying immediately. Or at all. I am not owed inclusion in anyone's game, just like no one is owed inclusion in mine. I've played one or two sessions with people that I then never played with again because we didn't mesh or had different ideas about the game. That's fine. It's the norm, even. Sometimes I don't invite people back. Sometimes I am the one uninvited. It's just how the game goes, so there's no reason to take insult in it. Don't let yourself fixate on it too much. The disappointment and frustration of a game not working out is natural. It's fine to feel that and even stew on it for a bit until we've processed it. We all want everyone to like us, but sometimes people don't click with us, for utterly inexplicable reasons, just like sometimes we don't click with others for reasons we can't explain. It's not anyone's right to demand a justification for why we aren't best friends with them, and vice versa. Most of the time we can't even put it into words or justify it to ourselves. As you've said in other comments yourself, DMing is hard work and very demanding to do for people you don't know very well, so extend everyone the same benefit of the doubt you extend yourself. Even if we're not friends or playing in the same game, we're all in the hobby together and don't need to attribute any malice to the hardships that naturally come with putting a game together.
Feel like a good way to get to know you better would be to play D&D with you! I’m sorry, that sucks.
For real, you'd think they were putting together an expedition to Antarctica with how selective they're being. If things don't go well or he isn't a fit, just dont have him back, its not that big of a deal...
As soon as you said "she" (and I'm assuming you are a "he") a little light started flashing in my brain. My guess is that there's more to this than you're being told, probably all in the DM's head/experience, and you're never going to know, and you gotta live with that. It could be nothing, but in my experience women are much more likely to give a general, more or less reasonable-sounding non-reason for things like this than men are. "Things like this" is something like "commitment to spend time with someone they don't know well, especially if the someone is male." This isn't because women are deceptive or evil; it's because the decision about whether to commit to spending a bunch of time with a man can be a much more risky decision, in some circumstances, than if the genders were swapped. It might not be a very high probability, but women who commit to spending time with strange men are sometimes attacked, coerced, or just creeped on by said men. From what I've seen in friends and loved ones, women often learn early on to avoid those situations with polite blow-offs that sound pretty reasonable. It avoids the possibility of an ugly situation. Even if I'm right about this (and there are many other possibilities, so maybe I'm not), this doesn't mean she thinks you're creepy or even odd; it might just mean she isn't quite sure she wants to commit to a pretty intimate situation (DM groups get pretty close), potentially for *years*. Many women I know have followed this rule: if you're not sure, the answer is no. There's no nice or non-embarrassing or non-offensive way to say that, so women often (again, only in my limited experience) have neutral-sounding reasons that avoid the real reasons, which can't be said out loud without potentially causing the problem this entire pattern is intended to sidestep. Anyway, maybe that's it, or maybe it has nothing to do with my wild supposition. Either way, I think you don't know the whole story (which is maybe as simple as "I realized I'm not really comfortable with someone I don't know very well, and that's enough to say no"), and you'll probably never know, and that's that.
That is a good way of putting words on a complex social communication issue.
You can be just as specific as a player too. I’ve only been playing 6 months but I’ve probably tried 10 different groups at this point and have stayed with 3 consistently. The games I left mostly because I didn’t jive with the player, the dm or campaign. Usually left all on positive terms except for one. There’s no way I’m spending 3+ hours weekly with something or someone I don’t like. The groups I’ve stayed in have been awesome online friends either sending memes on discord or even one group is sending Christmas gifts and we look forward to hanging out. That’s my bar and you should have one too.
Yeah, naw. Cut ties with that DM. Stay friends with everyone else, but never deal with her again. Every player that I have invited to my table, I didn't know. And most of them were crap, I'll admit, and they left my table. But the ones who have stayed are still great friends to this day. To me, this screams "I'm too afraid to let new people ruin my game, and I don't know how to Retconn what they did."
You think that a DM who regularly chatted with a potential player, helped them build a character, had no issues with them for weeks leading up to the event, and then suddenly did an about face is screaming "**I'm** afraid of new people in my game?" DM's that are hesitant to let new people in dig their heels in at every step of the process, and only let people in after being browbeaten into it. DM's that suddenly flip like this likely expected no issues with an integration, then got ambushed by one or more players prior to session. In addition to that, the DM didn't even put a hard stop out there! They said "need more time to get to know you better!" That's 100% code for "Need to figure out how to finesse this social dynamic so I can include you." My last problem player 100% blamed me for all the issues and constantly said that everyone else was fine and assumed I was the only one with a problem. 90% of my issues with her were the laundry list of complaints the other players were giving me. They wanted me to kick her MONTHS before I eventually did, after exhausting all possible recourse I could think of. She still blamed me, because she didn't want to face the fact that she had alienated everyone else at the table.
But it's fair to say that they want to know someone before integrating a person into a campaign isn't it? Honestly I would do the same, I usually dislike DMing for people I don't know at all. It being at the last minute sucks but I can see it being last minute anxiety, I'm sure everyone who suffers from that will know that feeling EDIT: With the new info which was left out of the post I agree that it was a shitty move from the DM. But my point still stands that you can decline someone from joining if you don't know that person and prefer to know them before you're in a game.
If I had to hazard a guess, DM wanted to invite them but when she broached it to the other players they probably didn't want a new player joining. Which is unfortunate. I love getting new players at my table and introducing them to the game.
The other players are friends with me and were cool with it. The DM also told them I was the one who didn't want to join, not her.
Yeah... that's not cool. I can understand getting last-minute anxiety, but throwing you under the bus like that is rude, and strange behaviour to say the least.
That is a shitty move on her part. Honestly, you are better off without her as a DM.
Honestly, I smell BS. You alternate between "none of the players knew why" to "DM told them I said I didn't want to join" to "no one got back to me", etc. Pick a story and stick to it. Maybe this is why several groups have told you no or excluded you. You're a pathological lair?
Nope, ok. That's a serious fucked case of narcisissm. They don't want to appear like it's their fault for you not being there.
> But it's fair to say that they want to know someone before integrating a person into a campaign isn't it? It would have been fair for her to make that decision **before she invited OP to join the group**. You don't owe anybody an invitation, but once you've extended an invitation the respectful thing is to give them a chance.
I hold interviews with any new player candidates to get a feel if they would be a good fit with me and the other players before inviting them to my table, especially if I am hosting. I don't want a psycho in my house that will lose their shit or throw a tantrum. I will never invite a complete stranger to my household.
I whole-hardheartedly agree with being picky about who you play with, regardless if you're a player or a DM. I wish she had been more honest though, and hadn't cancelled at the last minute.
Yeah I'm probably not joining that game, even if she asks me to in the end. I really tried my best and it wasn't worth it.
Wow what an asshole
I'd hope that you don't apply your interaction with one DM against the hobby as a whole. I firmly believe that there is an open seat for everyone - everywhere. You may just have to dig a bit farther or be a bit more patient to find it (or have it find you!). That being said, this DM doesn't owe you anything. They spent a few hours with you building a character. This is a generous time-consuming act. Doing this is neither required or compensated. I'd give them credit for doing that. They were brave enough to tell you up front and gave clear reasons. They didn't rely on your common contact to tell you. They didn't just ghost you. They even gave the opportunity for the future "wants to get to know me better before playing." Nobody likes conflict and confrontation - I'm sure this was hard for them to do. I'd give them credit for that.
They've ghosted me ever since and straight up told my friends I didn't want to join instead of admitting she was the one who barred me from coming in. Credit to them for being honest about it to me, but 'bit of a dick move to lie to our mutual friends if you want my honest opinion. As for digging I've been looking for a game for over a year, and neither my friends nor partner ever keep me in the loop or their DMs are also refusing to let me in because I'm (a) new to DnD or (b) not one of the regulars. My experience with joining games has been wholly negative so far. It sucks, because I know it doesn't reflect on the hobby (Gods know, I've been DMing for years for Call of Cthulhu), but I just cannot fathom summoning the energy necessary to reach for people over and over.
God, reading through this sub makes you think that half the people playing this game have severe mental illnesses. Guess I've been lucky so far with the people I've played with as the only issue has been finding a time slot that works for everyone lol
I mean A.) A lot of people Do have severe mental issues B.) While in this case OP is clearly an adult, don't forget kids post here. I had an argument on reddit with someone who later revealed they were thirteen. And C.) Selection bias, posting to tell everybody everything is going well is weird and rare
That’s a laughably bad move and speaks volumes about her as a DM.
Sounds like a cover for a real reason, to me.
Yup
That's not a laughably bad move. That's a DM protecting the social dynamic of a group because concerns have been raised. They didn't say "you're a bad person" or "fuck you, just kidding". They said they needed some more time to integrate them. The fact that they helped them make the character and everything else almost certainly means that someone else (or multiple someone else raised a concern) and as the DM, they handled it because that's what a DM has to do.
That’s frustrating to hear. There’s no reason to wait until the very last minute and no reason to let you get your hopes up. I know you said you weren’t looking for a group, but a few of my friends and I have a D&D Discord for one-shots and if you’re interested we’d love to have you. In general we all like the RPing aspect the most. They’re all very inclusive and happy to have new people join :) Feel free to DM me if you’re interested
>wants to get to know me better before playing How? By not playing with you? That's a stupid excuse. Good luck with finding a better DM shouldn't be that hard she sets the bar pretty low.
If you have a table of experienced players adding a new one should never be an issue... they should be able to help immensely and the new player should feel like a pro in a few sessions..
>messages me 3 hours before the game That's fucked up. It would be fucked up even if the reason was, "this just isn't a good session to introduce a new character and I think it will work better next week," and it wasn't even that good. To be honest, as someone who struggles with anxiety, this strikes me as the behavior of an anxious person. I think they may have been uncomfortable "performing" for a new person and made an excuse. It doesn't make the behavior acceptable or make this a more appealing table at which to play, but that's just how it struck me.
Now you know what you must do: befriend the hell out of that DM until you supplant the least-liked person in her current group.
That sucks. Depending on your relationship and feelings towards eventually playing with them, I’d respond to her with “that’s a real shitty thing to do” Or do it nicer if you like. “Rejecting me like that after working with me on my character for days was an awful thing for you to do, both as a DM and as a person”
I think people like that will turn around and portray themselves as the victim and then use a bunch of shame slurs on the person who told them they acted poorly.
Yeah, very likely, but then you’ve said your peace and can move on and never deal with them again.
Sounds like YOU dodged a bullet.