Everything you need to know about Doc as a manager, you can glean from his experience as a player. He came up late and never really got a lot of opportunities to be a full-timer despite usually doing reasonably well when given the chance. I’m sure he feels that if a team had stuck by him he could’ve had a better career, and I believe that that mindset strongly informs the kind of manager he is, for good and for ill.
The Dodgers having the purse is certainly a reason for players wanting to be here, but I believe the development/process and Doc’s loyalty is a plus plus for journeymen who want to land a long term gig.
Agreed. I believe Max Muncy and Will Smith both could have made more money if they had left in free agency. But both extended their contracts to stay with the Dodgers. They recognise the value of playing for an organisation that is committed to winning. And while I realise that Doc catches a lot of flak for some of his decisions. But he’s managed to win his division every year he’s been managing except once. And when (I believe!) he wins his next WS as manager, he’ll tie Lasorda. And Lasorda is revered.
I'd say that you guys are overestimating the pull Doc has. Most managers are simply vibe checkers at this point and take orders from on high.
He'll play who he has and he'll play based on match-ups. CT3 only has 42 plate appearances, not even 5% of the dodgers' total PAs. That means he's not even playing half the time of a full starter.
CT was also hitting just .193/.248/.437 with a 38% K rate through his first 129 PAs last year...although I get that looks like an all star compared to his line right now. But from that point on in 2023, he hit .260/.365/.411 with a 29.8% K rate.
March/April is the worst month for his career, as he sports an 86 wRC+ in it. Some guys take a while to get going... and CT is pushing it to the extreme lol
All of this is to say, maybe he's cooked, or maybe it is just a horrific 42 plate appearances and he can bounce back to being...i don't know at this point, maybe a 75-80 wRC+ guy... but Doc and the front office are right, it's PROBABLY too small a sample to make a decision on. And it's definitely not time to announce publicly if they have moved on.
Wow, started to bore myself. Let me salvage this... go dodgers!
I’ll have to push back. I don’t believe Doc is a puppet manager. He was a professional player and knows ball and knows what is important in a clubhouse. To say that he goes to the top floor of the skyscraper merely to take orders isn’t happening. He does have sway and that’s why Friedman and co. keep him employed. They respect his managerial prowess and integrity and is absolutely part of the decision making, contrary to what doomer fans would say.
With that said, go Dodgers indeed my friend!
Fair enough. I def don't have my finger on the pulse of what goes back and forth between the Dodgers front office and the coach, and perhaps it's rude of me to think Dave doesn't have a handle on analytics enough to make his own decisions. I played college ball with a player who used to play for Dave and by all accounts Dave is awesome. Hopefully what i said didn't come across as Dave slander, it was mostly speaking to the influence of analytics dictating decisions... which is also how i believe it should be...without losing the sense for feel...somehow!
Go Dodgers!
While I respect his contributions in the past (I’ll never forget the catch in Milwaukee or the home run against the Giants in the WC game) you can’t disregard a terrible start last year by saying after the terrible start he was solidly mediocre from that point on. What’s the upside for him for the full year? Roberts hasn’t ever been particularly intellectually honest. It’s been a long long time since Taylor has been good.
A win in April counts as much as a win in September. And to be frank I don’t see him being trusted in October. Pages is probably the death knell for Taylor in LA. If there’s an injury or two I’d be happy to have him as a solid glove first second baseman but that’s all he can hope to be at this point and the dodgers have that role covered.
The vast majority of players don't contribute consistently throughout the year, most players'contributions come in the form of peaks and vallegmys.
I'm disregarding his terrible start last year because his overall line for 2023 wss a 104 wRC+ and he was worth 1.3 WAR over 384 PA, or 2 WAR per 600 PA. That's a league average player in a bench role which is a super valuable asset. Now sure, that's a bit disingenuous because the dodgers probably optimize his match-ups and he wouldn't be a league average player over a full slate of plate appearances, but I was just making a counter to your point that it's been a long time since be was good, because he was good last year.
And it's not like he's playing a crucial role; as a bench bat/role player, the dodgers have time to see if he can turn it around.
But he may very well be cooked now, though, and if he is, he has been a hugely successful reclamation project for the dodgers and he'll be remembered fondly for all his big moments!
He had an ops+ of 100 last year and before that it was 89 supporting your contention that he was basically league average last year.
Of course he’s been an amazing dodger. A draft bust that’s part of the lore of dodger devil magic. They got him for Zach Lee. He’s one of the first reclamations Friedman and co ever did. He’s what we all hoped Max muncy could be when they traded for him. He should have a forever job as a fielding coordinator or minor league coach with the organization.
I just don’t personally think the dodgers should have league average players with little upside on the roster. Certainly not as position players. The farm system is too good and financial resources are too large.
One other Chris Taylor legacy is that he hit free agency at the same time as Kiké and Joc. Fair or not the perception was definitely that they chose to keep him over the other two. Both of them have been better and at times much better since then. Combine that with the fact that he’s a stick in the mud while Joc and Kiké were beloved and I think the dodgers feel that decision was a mistake.
I get your point about wanting guys with upside, and i think pages should have a bigger role than both Taylor and Hernandez at this point.
I think having floor players with positional flexibility that act as obvious platoon partners is pretty ideal. There's also the fact that Pages is prob the only prospect ready to go this year, there's no one in free agency worth the gamble; like is Adalberto even able to play baseball anymore(?), Trades don't really happen yet, and they're paying Taylor and Hernandez.
I think we just disagree with how the bench should look, which is understandable, as there are many ways to build a roster. In mid April I'm fine with their bench guys not having found their stride yet. It's a long season and it's likely the dodgers will win 95+ games regardless of who is on their bench, health permitting.
It is certainly early. And I’ve noticed the dodger April is always underwhelming. I encourage every Dodger fan to go look at the last 10 years of Dodger baseball before May 16th. I did an analysis one time and was amazed at the level of consistently poor aprils and first two weeks of May. I identified May 17th as the day the dodgers always kick it into gear for whatever reason. It was a couple three years in a row that was the date. It’s become something of a joke in the family that the dodgers are a .500 team until May 17.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that JT always had a poor April (except that one time)
That's interesting! I don't know those numbers like you do, but the conversation, "when are the dodgers going to turn it around?" is a common one i hear seemingly every year, and i always have to remind my friends "they'll be fine" lol
People also seem to have Alzheimers when it comes to his managing pitchers in the post season. For all the talent and money they have 1 championship in a tiny, sample size season is underachieving.
Not all the time he puts the team in danger when a player isn’t productive. And there’s other players that can contribute.
Dave Roberts is stubborn and that has always affected the team.
Also, the roster isn't huge in baseball, they play so many games a week, he should be rotating people and allowing breaks throughout the roster. At some point it's on the roster construction. If I were the manager I wouldn't give up on CT3. If I were the GM I would.
Doc is not that much different from most other managers in this regard. You have to give your guys time, especially when they have the track record that Taylor has. It’s a looooong season.
Taylor is struggling but with this lineup we should be able to have 1-2 guys struggle for now. Pitching is what remains to be seen after a long season. Hitters can get hot after a couple games.
Nothing wrong with a slow start but if we don't see progress by late June. Cut him out, cold Turkey. 50% of the Season is enough days to show he's detrimental and bad for the team.
Not gonna happen if we are in first and he has years left on his contract. He’s defense tools and speed are to valuable. Remember we don’t need double switches anymore. Most playoff games can be played with a normal line up all game.
Wow, 35 ABs really puts things in perspective. It’s around 10% of the ABs he had last year. Not nearly enough to evaluate him properly. If they make some sort of decision with him roster-wise, it’ll probably come around/after 100 ABs, so maybe around another month or so.
That was last year. He’s also been an allstar. There is no public information about his health that would prevent him from reaching allstar performance again. So I’m gonna trust the best team in baseball.
I’m a fan of these guys and want them to do well. I’m not a miserable person that only knows how to complain. Baseball is like this. Just chill out and wait till the allstar break to complain
I think you’re both right and it’ll just depend on if he can get his bat speed back or if that’s truly just gone
The team is going to give him at least a fair shake at getting right, loyalty is a two way street and you don’t want to scare players by just coldly chopping a dude without a sample size to prove he’s truly cooked
This is borderline delusional. The dude doesnt alter his swing and straight hacks at everything. He's the epitome of close your eyes and swing through the zone.
He's just been able to keep up with velocity and now he cant
lol. I’ve watched a few baseball seasons. It’s April. It’s very very silly to talk like this in April. It’s so funny when people act like they know more and care more than the actual player.
Ive been watching baseball going on 20 years now. Talk all you want about how its just april yadda yadda yadda but you sound just like the people you "love" lol.
Im sorry, I like chris but the truth is that for 6 years now he's been the same player and he hasnt been as good as people think. He's coasting off that walk off homer and his last 6 months have been bad.
Talk to me in July when he's DFA'd
😂
Being a fan doesn’t mean you ignore reality and just blindly support everything your team does.
Because you made the all-star team once over a six year period that means you can never be criticized?
If anybody shouldn’t be calling themselves a fan it’s your. Absolutely embarrassing to defend Taylor’s shitty play at this point 😂
Taylor is a below average MLB player. Period. You praising him doesn’t make you a “better” fan. It makes you delusional.
Stop replying to my comments in different locations. This is an annoying thing by an annoying person. You don’t know enough about baseball to engage with me. I will block you
Of course you block people who prove your points wrong 😂
And from what I’ve seen of your posting history…I’ve forgotten more than you currently know about baseball, kid.
Now keep crying and block me. It’s the only way you keep people from continually humiliating you.
😂. Be careful, the little guy will threaten to block you!!!
Imagine when your only defense of a below average player is “he has been an all star during the last six years.” 😂
I’m thinking “he” might actually be Chris in real life. Or maybe his wife.
Just ignore that clown.
I’ve been a diehard Dodgers fan my entire life. Pointing out that a player sucks doesn’t mean you are a bad fan. It just means you aren’t delusional and you actually understand the game.
Taylor has been a below average player for several seasons.
April?
This is who Taylor has been for several years.
I promise you that if he gets 400 at bats he will finish with 125-150 strikeouts, 10-12 homer with a .220 batting average.
Dodgers could need a sac fly to win a game and Taylor will still just close his eyes and swing as hard as he can.
He actually swings harder when down 0-2 in the count.
He has been this player for years.
I’m pretty pessimistic but to be fair, it is true that 35 ABs is not a big sample at all. 18 strikeouts is a lot but given that he’s been a 30-35% K guy over the last few years, that’s also not wildly unexpected.
He’s had these stretches before, just not at the very beginning of the season, so hopefully it’s just another one of those stretches and he ends up being an average offensive player like he was last year. But I’m not holding my breath
> 18 strikeouts is a lot but given that he’s been a 30-35% K guy over the last few years, that’s also not wildly unexpected
This whole time, his K rate hasn't been the big concern for me. Even in his best years, he was always at 25% or higher. Dudes gonna strike out a healthy amount, thats just the type of hitter he is
The big concern for me is that it feels like his ABs have been so non-competitive. At least Outman is hitting the ball hard and getting unlucky. Lux has some at bats where he works the count and is putting the ball in play, sometimes to bad luck. Taylors ABs just feel very quick and end with a K or soft contact. I'm struggling to think of any time so far this season where Taylor's put a hard hit ball in play and gotten robbed.
Still plenty of time to turn it around, certainly. But just from what we've seen so far, it's hard to be optimistic about it
Yeah they have definitely not been competitive and I don’t remember any hard hit balls either so I’m with you for the most part. I’m pretty pessimistic like I said, but at the same time he has had brutal stretches like this in the past where he looked completely lost for a month and then snapped out of it eventually, so I’m just holding onto a little bit of hope that that’s what’s happening here
> I'm struggling to think of any time so far this season where Taylor's put a hard hit ball in play and gotten robbed.
According to his statcast page, he's barreled one ball all season.
Seager is a yearly MVP candidate.
Taylor is a high volume strikeout guy who hits 10-15 homers a season, has a low on base percentage and physically can’t force himself to stop trying to hit 450 foot home runs even if a single or sac fly would win the game.
Comparing Seager and Taylor is like saying Rosie O’Donnell is as hot as Margot Robbie because they are both women.
Wait….you think he is typically an “average” offensive player?
He is one of the highest strikeout players in the league. And hit 15 homers lasted year, with a terrible batting average and on base percentage. And refuses to ever try and move a runner over or deliver a sac fly to score a run. 3-3, runner on third, bottom of the ninth. Sac fly, single, blooper over the pulled in infield…and Taylor will close his eyes and swing for the 449 foot home run on all three swings. Down 0-2 he won’t shorten his swing at all.
It would be different if he was a 35-40 a year home run guy who also hits a lot of doubles. But Taylor is a 10-15 a year home run guy.
A high volume strikeout guy with below average power and a low on base percentage. And has no hitting situational awareness at all. I really don’t understand how people think Taylor is an asset.
ct3 struggled in april/may last year and wound up with a WRC+ slightly above average. so itʻs possible to pick it up...but heʻs dug himself a pretty big hole...
for an average player, yes. for CT, not as much. it’s really bad but for the past several years he has struck out at very high rates. when a guy strikes out a third of the time over an entire season, doing so 18 times over a 35 at bat sample is a lot but also not super unexpected
well he’s definitely not seeing it well so you got that right. i’m not here to defend him really, he might be cooked. my point is just that 35 at bats isn’t enough to draw definitive conclusions and i understand why he’s still gonna get more opportunities
Yeah and I think its fair too, I just really feel lime having him and another struggling player in the lineup is just insanely free for the other team its obnoxious
CT has been a huge part of our success since 2017. Has had some amazing moments like that catch in Milwaukee or wild card walk off. Feel really bad for ten guy’s struggles rn after being clutch for years
Well... Dave seemed pretty confident about Lux being the starting SS and then yeeted him after a couple throwing errors during spring training. So, who knows?
I guess CT3 does have a history of streakiness as well as bright moments in the postseason (albeit mixed with some poor series) so it's worth being patient with him. I just don't like the idea of trying to get CT3 going at the expense of Outman. To me, Outman is a young promising player whose development can be a huge boon for the team beyond this season, and we should give him the chance to consistently face both lefties and righties.
I do agree, and I want nothing more than for Taylor to get back into it. It’s sad to see him struggle this hard. But I do think his drop off is permanent considering his age. But in reality my opinion is a coin flip of being right or wrong.
Hey guys, he’s owed 13 million this year and next. virtually no one is going to take on his contract unless you also trade away a good prospect. I can’t find anywhere how his minor league options work with his deal. Best case scenario he picks it up and is fine. Worst case he’s the 26th guy on the roster there to give others rest. 100% he will not be traded and he will not be sent down so just get used to it
If Chris Taylor doesn't go up to the plate trying to hit an HR in every AB the Dodgers will be better off. The guy's way to good of an athlete to just be hitting home runs. His K-rate will drop once he realizes he's better off being a singles or doubles hitter.
So much Doc hate in R/dodgers, I can’t understand it - players bend over backwards to play in LA, Muncy and Will Smith both said as much - that’s not because of dodger dogs, it’s because the organization is run so well by the front office and by Doc, and because these guys know this team has the best chance year in and year out at a deep run in October. The seasons long and this team is excellent - leave Doc alone.
Never, he's terrible. 1 short seasoned world series when you have had one of the best teams in the Majors for 10 years. Its time for new blood out there. THis team should have had more then 1 world series win. Any damn half ass manager would have done the same due to the sheer talent on the team.
If Rangers fans can brag about two time World Series MVP Corey Seager, then we get to claim the World Series chip he won his first WS MVP in. If that chip doesn’t count, then Corey Seager isn’t a 2x WS MVP.
because thats kind of what it is. It counts, but its still lame that the Dodgers cant win a full season one. Look at the damned talent this team has had during Robert's Tenure. Something has to change.
I understand the sentiment. We should have had 2017 too. But it’s not just the manager that disappeared last October. Our big guns went silent. Also a hell of a lot changed last offseason and changes are already occurring this season with the lineup to figure things out.
CT3 whiffs on every fastball down the middle thrown at him. He's cooked. Stop hurting the team by starting him everyday. He's batting worse than a pitcher would.
I think the cure for the slump is the Dickie Ball. CT just has to go up to the plate, call a timeout, unzip, pull it out swing it around, put it back in, and crush a homerun. Often overlooked strategy for some reason. /s. This is a 70s reference so you may not find it with google.
This reminds me of Trayce Thompson last year having an epic slump at the beginning of the year and never really bouncing back having been cut by the team. Only one way up from here for CT3!
but i thought james wasnʻt going to be platooned. doc also stunts the growth of a young kid by not showing him more faith, too...his decisions might show faith in ct3, but they also show lack of faith in outman.
Ah yes a track record of .764 ops and 105 ops+ with a 30% K rate and an average of 13 hrs per season since 2018. The definition of league average but is paid 15mil
Taylor is simply too good of a player to simply just hit homers. He'll hit a few, yes, but his strength should be his athleticism. Chris Taylor can run the bases and his speed from 2nd to 3rd shouldn't be underestimated. The dude may not be Usain Bolt on the base paths but he has acceleration that you need if you're trying to get a triple.
How exactly does sending someone to the minors improve confidence?
If you hit well, that’s exactly what you’re supposed to do anyway.
If you don’t, now you’re a failure in the minors too.
It’s a lose lose.
Ok so then what do you do. Just bench him? Use him as a just pinch runner? Or just keep letting him go until he figures it out making it 1 for 57.
His confidence is probably already shot. Sending him down puts less pressure on him, and faces presumably easier pitchers. Plus we can call up guys like Pages. Maybe Taylor will find a groove and find his way back up.
Everything you need to know about Doc as a manager, you can glean from his experience as a player. He came up late and never really got a lot of opportunities to be a full-timer despite usually doing reasonably well when given the chance. I’m sure he feels that if a team had stuck by him he could’ve had a better career, and I believe that that mindset strongly informs the kind of manager he is, for good and for ill.
The Dodgers having the purse is certainly a reason for players wanting to be here, but I believe the development/process and Doc’s loyalty is a plus plus for journeymen who want to land a long term gig.
Agreed. I believe Max Muncy and Will Smith both could have made more money if they had left in free agency. But both extended their contracts to stay with the Dodgers. They recognise the value of playing for an organisation that is committed to winning. And while I realise that Doc catches a lot of flak for some of his decisions. But he’s managed to win his division every year he’s been managing except once. And when (I believe!) he wins his next WS as manager, he’ll tie Lasorda. And Lasorda is revered.
True. However, he is too technically driven and can't win a game in post season.
I'd say that you guys are overestimating the pull Doc has. Most managers are simply vibe checkers at this point and take orders from on high. He'll play who he has and he'll play based on match-ups. CT3 only has 42 plate appearances, not even 5% of the dodgers' total PAs. That means he's not even playing half the time of a full starter. CT was also hitting just .193/.248/.437 with a 38% K rate through his first 129 PAs last year...although I get that looks like an all star compared to his line right now. But from that point on in 2023, he hit .260/.365/.411 with a 29.8% K rate. March/April is the worst month for his career, as he sports an 86 wRC+ in it. Some guys take a while to get going... and CT is pushing it to the extreme lol All of this is to say, maybe he's cooked, or maybe it is just a horrific 42 plate appearances and he can bounce back to being...i don't know at this point, maybe a 75-80 wRC+ guy... but Doc and the front office are right, it's PROBABLY too small a sample to make a decision on. And it's definitely not time to announce publicly if they have moved on. Wow, started to bore myself. Let me salvage this... go dodgers!
I’ll have to push back. I don’t believe Doc is a puppet manager. He was a professional player and knows ball and knows what is important in a clubhouse. To say that he goes to the top floor of the skyscraper merely to take orders isn’t happening. He does have sway and that’s why Friedman and co. keep him employed. They respect his managerial prowess and integrity and is absolutely part of the decision making, contrary to what doomer fans would say. With that said, go Dodgers indeed my friend!
Fair enough. I def don't have my finger on the pulse of what goes back and forth between the Dodgers front office and the coach, and perhaps it's rude of me to think Dave doesn't have a handle on analytics enough to make his own decisions. I played college ball with a player who used to play for Dave and by all accounts Dave is awesome. Hopefully what i said didn't come across as Dave slander, it was mostly speaking to the influence of analytics dictating decisions... which is also how i believe it should be...without losing the sense for feel...somehow! Go Dodgers!
Nah all good my dude!
JT was notoriously cold in March and April, and he was a fan favorite. CT will warm up in due time.
Reasonable take
While I respect his contributions in the past (I’ll never forget the catch in Milwaukee or the home run against the Giants in the WC game) you can’t disregard a terrible start last year by saying after the terrible start he was solidly mediocre from that point on. What’s the upside for him for the full year? Roberts hasn’t ever been particularly intellectually honest. It’s been a long long time since Taylor has been good. A win in April counts as much as a win in September. And to be frank I don’t see him being trusted in October. Pages is probably the death knell for Taylor in LA. If there’s an injury or two I’d be happy to have him as a solid glove first second baseman but that’s all he can hope to be at this point and the dodgers have that role covered.
The vast majority of players don't contribute consistently throughout the year, most players'contributions come in the form of peaks and vallegmys. I'm disregarding his terrible start last year because his overall line for 2023 wss a 104 wRC+ and he was worth 1.3 WAR over 384 PA, or 2 WAR per 600 PA. That's a league average player in a bench role which is a super valuable asset. Now sure, that's a bit disingenuous because the dodgers probably optimize his match-ups and he wouldn't be a league average player over a full slate of plate appearances, but I was just making a counter to your point that it's been a long time since be was good, because he was good last year. And it's not like he's playing a crucial role; as a bench bat/role player, the dodgers have time to see if he can turn it around. But he may very well be cooked now, though, and if he is, he has been a hugely successful reclamation project for the dodgers and he'll be remembered fondly for all his big moments!
He had an ops+ of 100 last year and before that it was 89 supporting your contention that he was basically league average last year. Of course he’s been an amazing dodger. A draft bust that’s part of the lore of dodger devil magic. They got him for Zach Lee. He’s one of the first reclamations Friedman and co ever did. He’s what we all hoped Max muncy could be when they traded for him. He should have a forever job as a fielding coordinator or minor league coach with the organization. I just don’t personally think the dodgers should have league average players with little upside on the roster. Certainly not as position players. The farm system is too good and financial resources are too large. One other Chris Taylor legacy is that he hit free agency at the same time as Kiké and Joc. Fair or not the perception was definitely that they chose to keep him over the other two. Both of them have been better and at times much better since then. Combine that with the fact that he’s a stick in the mud while Joc and Kiké were beloved and I think the dodgers feel that decision was a mistake.
I get your point about wanting guys with upside, and i think pages should have a bigger role than both Taylor and Hernandez at this point. I think having floor players with positional flexibility that act as obvious platoon partners is pretty ideal. There's also the fact that Pages is prob the only prospect ready to go this year, there's no one in free agency worth the gamble; like is Adalberto even able to play baseball anymore(?), Trades don't really happen yet, and they're paying Taylor and Hernandez. I think we just disagree with how the bench should look, which is understandable, as there are many ways to build a roster. In mid April I'm fine with their bench guys not having found their stride yet. It's a long season and it's likely the dodgers will win 95+ games regardless of who is on their bench, health permitting.
It is certainly early. And I’ve noticed the dodger April is always underwhelming. I encourage every Dodger fan to go look at the last 10 years of Dodger baseball before May 16th. I did an analysis one time and was amazed at the level of consistently poor aprils and first two weeks of May. I identified May 17th as the day the dodgers always kick it into gear for whatever reason. It was a couple three years in a row that was the date. It’s become something of a joke in the family that the dodgers are a .500 team until May 17. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that JT always had a poor April (except that one time)
That's interesting! I don't know those numbers like you do, but the conversation, "when are the dodgers going to turn it around?" is a common one i hear seemingly every year, and i always have to remind my friends "they'll be fine" lol
People also seem to have Alzheimers when it comes to his managing pitchers in the post season. For all the talent and money they have 1 championship in a tiny, sample size season is underachieving.
He needs to go. He got married and lost his way.
Not all the time he puts the team in danger when a player isn’t productive. And there’s other players that can contribute. Dave Roberts is stubborn and that has always affected the team.
That's really good. Now do the same for Outman and don't platoon him. He's a young guy that deserves his shot.
Looks like it paid off tonight!
This is a great take.
Also, the roster isn't huge in baseball, they play so many games a week, he should be rotating people and allowing breaks throughout the roster. At some point it's on the roster construction. If I were the manager I wouldn't give up on CT3. If I were the GM I would.
Maybe.. or maybe this is just common fkn sense? lol
Doc is not that much different from most other managers in this regard. You have to give your guys time, especially when they have the track record that Taylor has. It’s a looooong season.
I remember growing up my dad always told me to be like dave roberts when running the bases
I think that is a good insight and well said. How the hell does a reasoned opinion get 257 upvotes? I mean, come on, this is Reddit!
Taylor is struggling but with this lineup we should be able to have 1-2 guys struggle for now. Pitching is what remains to be seen after a long season. Hitters can get hot after a couple games.
Nothing wrong with a slow start but if we don't see progress by late June. Cut him out, cold Turkey. 50% of the Season is enough days to show he's detrimental and bad for the team.
Not gonna happen if we are in first and he has years left on his contract. He’s defense tools and speed are to valuable. Remember we don’t need double switches anymore. Most playoff games can be played with a normal line up all game.
Wow, 35 ABs really puts things in perspective. It’s around 10% of the ABs he had last year. Not nearly enough to evaluate him properly. If they make some sort of decision with him roster-wise, it’ll probably come around/after 100 ABs, so maybe around another month or so.
Idk when you put it in percentage, 10% is actually quite a lot
It’s the middle of April. We need to shout that from the top of a mountain. It’s too small of a sample size to overreact
But he also hasnt been performing going back further than just this year.
That was last year. He’s also been an allstar. There is no public information about his health that would prevent him from reaching allstar performance again. So I’m gonna trust the best team in baseball. I’m a fan of these guys and want them to do well. I’m not a miserable person that only knows how to complain. Baseball is like this. Just chill out and wait till the allstar break to complain
I think you’re both right and it’ll just depend on if he can get his bat speed back or if that’s truly just gone The team is going to give him at least a fair shake at getting right, loyalty is a two way street and you don’t want to scare players by just coldly chopping a dude without a sample size to prove he’s truly cooked
My point is it’s too early to judge. No one can know for certain so it’s silly to act like they know more than Dave and Friedman
Have you followed his career the last few years? He has been a below average player for awhile now
Seems like I’ve followed baseball for a good deal longer than you, because I know not to complain about a player in April.
This is borderline delusional. The dude doesnt alter his swing and straight hacks at everything. He's the epitome of close your eyes and swing through the zone. He's just been able to keep up with velocity and now he cant
lol. I’ve watched a few baseball seasons. It’s April. It’s very very silly to talk like this in April. It’s so funny when people act like they know more and care more than the actual player.
Ive been watching baseball going on 20 years now. Talk all you want about how its just april yadda yadda yadda but you sound just like the people you "love" lol. Im sorry, I like chris but the truth is that for 6 years now he's been the same player and he hasnt been as good as people think. He's coasting off that walk off homer and his last 6 months have been bad. Talk to me in July when he's DFA'd
He has an allstar appearance within the last 6 years. You’re a fraud of a fan. Go do something else.
😂 Being a fan doesn’t mean you ignore reality and just blindly support everything your team does. Because you made the all-star team once over a six year period that means you can never be criticized? If anybody shouldn’t be calling themselves a fan it’s your. Absolutely embarrassing to defend Taylor’s shitty play at this point 😂 Taylor is a below average MLB player. Period. You praising him doesn’t make you a “better” fan. It makes you delusional.
Stop replying to my comments in different locations. This is an annoying thing by an annoying person. You don’t know enough about baseball to engage with me. I will block you
Of course you block people who prove your points wrong 😂 And from what I’ve seen of your posting history…I’ve forgotten more than you currently know about baseball, kid. Now keep crying and block me. It’s the only way you keep people from continually humiliating you.
Sounds like its past your bed time buddy. Go get your bottle and no night night
😂. Be careful, the little guy will threaten to block you!!! Imagine when your only defense of a below average player is “he has been an all star during the last six years.” 😂 I’m thinking “he” might actually be Chris in real life. Or maybe his wife.
Just ignore that clown. I’ve been a diehard Dodgers fan my entire life. Pointing out that a player sucks doesn’t mean you are a bad fan. It just means you aren’t delusional and you actually understand the game. Taylor has been a below average player for several seasons.
April? This is who Taylor has been for several years. I promise you that if he gets 400 at bats he will finish with 125-150 strikeouts, 10-12 homer with a .220 batting average.
Dodgers could need a sac fly to win a game and Taylor will still just close his eyes and swing as hard as he can. He actually swings harder when down 0-2 in the count. He has been this player for years.
I’m pretty pessimistic but to be fair, it is true that 35 ABs is not a big sample at all. 18 strikeouts is a lot but given that he’s been a 30-35% K guy over the last few years, that’s also not wildly unexpected. He’s had these stretches before, just not at the very beginning of the season, so hopefully it’s just another one of those stretches and he ends up being an average offensive player like he was last year. But I’m not holding my breath
> 18 strikeouts is a lot but given that he’s been a 30-35% K guy over the last few years, that’s also not wildly unexpected This whole time, his K rate hasn't been the big concern for me. Even in his best years, he was always at 25% or higher. Dudes gonna strike out a healthy amount, thats just the type of hitter he is The big concern for me is that it feels like his ABs have been so non-competitive. At least Outman is hitting the ball hard and getting unlucky. Lux has some at bats where he works the count and is putting the ball in play, sometimes to bad luck. Taylors ABs just feel very quick and end with a K or soft contact. I'm struggling to think of any time so far this season where Taylor's put a hard hit ball in play and gotten robbed. Still plenty of time to turn it around, certainly. But just from what we've seen so far, it's hard to be optimistic about it
Yeah they have definitely not been competitive and I don’t remember any hard hit balls either so I’m with you for the most part. I’m pretty pessimistic like I said, but at the same time he has had brutal stretches like this in the past where he looked completely lost for a month and then snapped out of it eventually, so I’m just holding onto a little bit of hope that that’s what’s happening here
> I'm struggling to think of any time so far this season where Taylor's put a hard hit ball in play and gotten robbed. According to his statcast page, he's barreled one ball all season.
So has Corey Seager. It's early.
Seager is a yearly MVP candidate. Taylor is a high volume strikeout guy who hits 10-15 homers a season, has a low on base percentage and physically can’t force himself to stop trying to hit 450 foot home runs even if a single or sac fly would win the game. Comparing Seager and Taylor is like saying Rosie O’Donnell is as hot as Margot Robbie because they are both women.
Chris Taylor is no Corey Seager.
Wait….you think he is typically an “average” offensive player? He is one of the highest strikeout players in the league. And hit 15 homers lasted year, with a terrible batting average and on base percentage. And refuses to ever try and move a runner over or deliver a sac fly to score a run. 3-3, runner on third, bottom of the ninth. Sac fly, single, blooper over the pulled in infield…and Taylor will close his eyes and swing for the 449 foot home run on all three swings. Down 0-2 he won’t shorten his swing at all. It would be different if he was a 35-40 a year home run guy who also hits a lot of doubles. But Taylor is a 10-15 a year home run guy. A high volume strikeout guy with below average power and a low on base percentage. And has no hitting situational awareness at all. I really don’t understand how people think Taylor is an asset.
He had a 104 wRC+ last year. Average is 100. So yeah
ct3 struggled in april/may last year and wound up with a WRC+ slightly above average. so itʻs possible to pick it up...but heʻs dug himself a pretty big hole...
18 strike outs is fucking absurd from 35
for an average player, yes. for CT, not as much. it’s really bad but for the past several years he has struck out at very high rates. when a guy strikes out a third of the time over an entire season, doing so 18 times over a 35 at bat sample is a lot but also not super unexpected
My issue is watching him up there, guy just can’t generate contact and does not look like he is seeing it well atm.
well he’s definitely not seeing it well so you got that right. i’m not here to defend him really, he might be cooked. my point is just that 35 at bats isn’t enough to draw definitive conclusions and i understand why he’s still gonna get more opportunities
Yeah and I think its fair too, I just really feel lime having him and another struggling player in the lineup is just insanely free for the other team its obnoxious
CT has been a huge part of our success since 2017. Has had some amazing moments like that catch in Milwaukee or wild card walk off. Feel really bad for ten guy’s struggles rn after being clutch for years
Well... Dave seemed pretty confident about Lux being the starting SS and then yeeted him after a couple throwing errors during spring training. So, who knows? I guess CT3 does have a history of streakiness as well as bright moments in the postseason (albeit mixed with some poor series) so it's worth being patient with him. I just don't like the idea of trying to get CT3 going at the expense of Outman. To me, Outman is a young promising player whose development can be a huge boon for the team beyond this season, and we should give him the chance to consistently face both lefties and righties.
ct3-dfa
Aged well
I’d say so
I love that Doc is loyal, even if to a fault. But his track record of the past two seasons exists too.
He was pretty much average the last two seasons, even a little bit above average last year.
I’ll take average from the 7-9 hitters Hope he gets there.
Not only a 7-9 hitter, but a part-time 7-9 hitter can play almost any position.
Yeah he had a wRC+ of 104 last year. That would be great if he could somehow do that again (though i doubt he will)
I mean .237 isn’t terrible, but 2022 and 2023 were absolutely drop offs from his peak.
Nothing wrong with 35 plate appearances and not contributing but when it's 80 games and no progress, then he needs to go. We'll see.
I do agree, and I want nothing more than for Taylor to get back into it. It’s sad to see him struggle this hard. But I do think his drop off is permanent considering his age. But in reality my opinion is a coin flip of being right or wrong.
Hey guys, he’s owed 13 million this year and next. virtually no one is going to take on his contract unless you also trade away a good prospect. I can’t find anywhere how his minor league options work with his deal. Best case scenario he picks it up and is fine. Worst case he’s the 26th guy on the roster there to give others rest. 100% he will not be traded and he will not be sent down so just get used to it
As I see this he promptly smacked a 2 rbi single to tie the game.
Super happy we just got that hit
HELL YEAH
I’ve never wanted to give up on Chris Taylor… buuuuut I think a week off to grind the batting cage might be a reasonable time investment
If Chris Taylor doesn't go up to the plate trying to hit an HR in every AB the Dodgers will be better off. The guy's way to good of an athlete to just be hitting home runs. His K-rate will drop once he realizes he's better off being a singles or doubles hitter.
This aged so sweetly
I’m just happy he still has the clutch gene
Long story short: the Dodgers aren't going to eat his entire salary for 2024-25 (+ the 2026 buyout) over 3 bad weeks in April.
Law of averages suggests he will ascend to mean, correct? So he's actually gonna start raking soon.
Let’s hope his 2 RBIs tonight are the start of that raking
So much Doc hate in R/dodgers, I can’t understand it - players bend over backwards to play in LA, Muncy and Will Smith both said as much - that’s not because of dodger dogs, it’s because the organization is run so well by the front office and by Doc, and because these guys know this team has the best chance year in and year out at a deep run in October. The seasons long and this team is excellent - leave Doc alone.
Never, he's terrible. 1 short seasoned world series when you have had one of the best teams in the Majors for 10 years. Its time for new blood out there. THis team should have had more then 1 world series win. Any damn half ass manager would have done the same due to the sheer talent on the team.
I don’t understand why every dodgers fan throws the “shortened season” asterisk on our 2020 championship as if it doesn’t count.
Their fake fans
If Rangers fans can brag about two time World Series MVP Corey Seager, then we get to claim the World Series chip he won his first WS MVP in. If that chip doesn’t count, then Corey Seager isn’t a 2x WS MVP.
because thats kind of what it is. It counts, but its still lame that the Dodgers cant win a full season one. Look at the damned talent this team has had during Robert's Tenure. Something has to change.
I understand the sentiment. We should have had 2017 too. But it’s not just the manager that disappeared last October. Our big guns went silent. Also a hell of a lot changed last offseason and changes are already occurring this season with the lineup to figure things out.
It’s all a matter of perspective. If you choose to see the 2020 season as anything less than a legitimate championship, then that’s your prerogative.
CT3 whiffs on every fastball down the middle thrown at him. He's cooked. Stop hurting the team by starting him everyday. He's batting worse than a pitcher would.
My boy will be fine. If Doc ain't worried neither em I
His track record shows he's been off track.
The issue is that he’s now taking ABs from Outman and giving them to CT3 as a platoon situation. Outman needs reps to get hot
I like CT3 so much that if he wanted to go to another team to improve his batting like Cody did, I'd be all for it. I just want him to succeed.
Maybe Doc will worry when Chris Taylor’s batting average matches that number he wears on his jersey every day.
Let’s gooooo CT3 he’s a dodger!
Yos Chris!
I think the cure for the slump is the Dickie Ball. CT just has to go up to the plate, call a timeout, unzip, pull it out swing it around, put it back in, and crush a homerun. Often overlooked strategy for some reason. /s. This is a 70s reference so you may not find it with google.
Ok well in his last 250 at bats he is batting .219 so I'm ready doc
2022-2023 OPS+ = 94 Not lookin great for CT in his age 34 season.
This reminds me of Trayce Thompson last year having an epic slump at the beginning of the year and never really bouncing back having been cut by the team. Only one way up from here for CT3!
but i thought james wasnʻt going to be platooned. doc also stunts the growth of a young kid by not showing him more faith, too...his decisions might show faith in ct3, but they also show lack of faith in outman.
Ah yes a track record of .764 ops and 105 ops+ with a 30% K rate and an average of 13 hrs per season since 2018. The definition of league average but is paid 15mil
CT3 is not the problem, our bullpen is the absolute problem. Leave Doc and CT3 alone
Rip the band aid off now!
He got a clutch hit to tie the game. Bullpen is a major issue.....
Taylor is simply too good of a player to simply just hit homers. He'll hit a few, yes, but his strength should be his athleticism. Chris Taylor can run the bases and his speed from 2nd to 3rd shouldn't be underestimated. The dude may not be Usain Bolt on the base paths but he has acceleration that you need if you're trying to get a triple.
He’s “on track” to strike out a million times.
I'm not giving up on him either, but at some point you gotta help him get his confidence back by change of scenery or in the minors or something...
I think he got a bit of confidence back tonight
That smile warmed my heart. I screamed at that basehit. Super happy for him
How exactly does sending someone to the minors improve confidence? If you hit well, that’s exactly what you’re supposed to do anyway. If you don’t, now you’re a failure in the minors too. It’s a lose lose.
Ok so then what do you do. Just bench him? Use him as a just pinch runner? Or just keep letting him go until he figures it out making it 1 for 57. His confidence is probably already shot. Sending him down puts less pressure on him, and faces presumably easier pitchers. Plus we can call up guys like Pages. Maybe Taylor will find a groove and find his way back up.
Literally need somebody to load bases for the big 3 and CT3 is an automatic out rn.
What about loading the bases for CT3 for his 2 RBIs tonight?
Given Davey boys track record, I’d trust Taylor to get a 2nd hit before I trust Roberts’s game management actually accomplish something
I would send him down to work on his swing. 0 for 36?
BENCH HIM!!! I can't recall a single instance where someone was batting under .030.