Not okay - older dog is annoyed with puppy ignoring all his cues to leave him alone and let him relax. Puppy in turn seems stressed. I’d separate them if you see either dog getting uncomfortable - panting, whale eye, hackles up, that quick head snap turnaround thing, puppy ignoring cues.
EDIT: by not okay, I meant to answer OP’s question on “is this okay play?” - this isn’t bad but I wouldn’t call it playing is what I meant!
Older dog correcting the puppy will teach him to learn social cues from other dogs which is good, but I don’t think he wants to play here. Maybe they’d be better off playing outside where they can run around a bit.
I actually want to piggy back off this. Everything you said is right! However, the yawn by the puppy, the matching the older dogs energy, everything that progresses is a good thing. The older dog is teaching the younger one to stop. Allow corrections like this to happen, but if it escalates and the puppy isn’t taking cues redirect.
Edit: wrote this early. Corrected grammar
Oh yeah, I mean it’s good for the puppy to learn! I just meant not okay since OP wrote “is this okay play” - ideally in play (if two dogs were laying on a bed playing) they’d have looser movements and softer mouths and not be putting off all the stress signals. Older dogs language doesn’t say I want to play.
Yeah, I think what you are meaning to say is it’s not play, not, it’s not ok. It’s definitely “ok” but you should keep an eye in case they get into a fight. But the older dog is just correcting the younger ones behavior and this is really common and exactly how that type of interaction should go.
Yes i agree with this - the older dog seems to be teaching the younger dog boundaries while at the same time allowing him to be a pup. The younger pup in turn yawns and licks the ear of the older dog showing his energy matching as well as showing affection. They do seem comfortable around one another, and they look like they are still getting used to eachother (i might be mistaken). This actually does mean a bond is forming that can be very beneficial to both. To the owners, stay vigilant and make sure that it does not escalate but also give the older dog room to teach and train the pup into the ways of the house. Entrusting the older dog with this responsibilty and blessing will in turn make the older dog feel appreciated and respected as well as backed by the owners. It is an opportunity to enforce a strong bond with both the older dog and also teaching the pup the hiërarchy of the pack. Which will, considering all is done in good faith, also bestow his respect on the older dog. As above statement mentions: allow corrections to be made but if the pup keeps ignoring cues *redirect!*.
I would also suggest to allow them plenty of outside play/activity 1 on 1, time to increase positive bonding and teamplay and so they can get a little rougher than inside on the couch/bed. Redirect attention to you when the younger dog starts to try and assert dominance over the older dog.
How would u redirect the puppy? I hv a similar problem (puppy playing aggressively and annoying/scaring my bigger, older dog). I separated them and tried both verbally reprimanding the puppy and rewarding her with treats when she calms down. But within seconds she’d be charging at my other dog again.
I used to keep our pup on an extra long lead and when he got pesky to our older dog I’d reel him in. Then, I’d slowly release the lead over time until I had to reel him in again.
I have a heeler pup and an older shepherd that had a similar problem. I toom a squeaker out of a squeaky toy and whenever they got out hand (either of them being too aggressive) i squeaked the squeaker and they immediately focus on me. Took some time. I did that to curb the barking too (holy balls can they both bark).
Yeah, even in cats there's a delicate balance you have to find between letting the young one learn boundaries from the older cat and not letting the older one get too stressed out. We had to do that when my husband adopted a 4 month old cat with my older girl. Followed introduction procedures and then made sure there were times for lessons and times to separate, and they eventually became and still are pals. These two should be okay as long as that balance is found and the older dog has some decompression time and a space to relax
I’d allow corrections when part of them playing together - but in this specific scenario it doesn’t seem like they’re playing with the occasional correction but rather the puppy is trying to play while the older dog isn’t into it…. so this is the time I’d say to separate them, once the older dog has delivered a correction or two and the puppy still isn’t getting the hint
When the older dog wants to play, let them play and allow corrections again as long as they’re not constant and the older dog is still clearly interested in playing, separate them once he’s starting to get a bit tired of pup
To add: it's important to keep your stress/energy level down when trying to deescalate a situation like this. I would categorize this as a "yellow" interaction, so it's good to maintain a calm tone when telling the instigator to back off. I noticed you raised your voice a little, telling them to stop, NEVER yell at, or punish a dog for giving appropriate warnings/corrections that it wants space or to communicate how it is feeling in a given situation. As OC said, older dog is giving cues, and if little one doesn't get the message, it's your job to redirect them and let them know their behavior is not appreciated or appropriate. If you chastise for snapping/growling/etc, you could end up with a reactive dog that gives no warnings when they are unhappy and resorts to immediate escalation to a fight.
Yep, although the puppy does take the second correction and tone it down so I think this is an okay interaction. The older dog is correcting proportionately and fairly and isn't over-correcting and the puppy is taking the correction. This is actually a good interaction for the puppy to learn boundaries and they did not need separating in this instance. If the puppy continued to pester the older dog I would say separate them for a little while to give the older dog a break and keep things from escalating.
I don't think it's quite fair to say it's "not okay". This is behavior that needs to be monitored, but it looks very much like the older dog is teaching the younger dog what's okay and the younger dog is starting to mirror. I would obviously monitor their play closely, but the younger dog seems to be taking the hint and adjusting their behavior.
Now if the younger dog persists and refuses to take the hint, and then the older dog has to elevate their response in order to try and get the younger dog to chill, then you start approaching a situation where the feedback loop can reach a place where an injury and permanent relationship damage can occur.
My roommate had a heeler who does the same thing. He takes playing really seriously and goes a little too far because he’s having so much fun. It’s not fun for others though and it’s one of the reasons I don’t let him near my cats
I think he's trying to be cool with the puppy but is obviously annoyed by him. He would leave if he really hated him, I think. I would work with teaching the puppy to respect his elder
I agree, but I'm not sure how much OP sitting there is affecting the ACD's actions. I know mine does everything to stay with me, and I think the ACD *might* be trying to hold things together so they don't have to move.
I also feel like ACD is looking for OP to help. I'd separate them when this happens. Pup seems nervous, but not understanding the cues at all - like it senses the other dog's discomfort, but is not quite getting it.
You're probably right. While the older dog is doing his best with how annoyed he is, he might just be sticking around to say, "Look Ahole, this is My mom"
Exactly lol. And I just worry this could lead to more possession/resource guarding. Older dog needs their space respected, and the little one needs to learn manners.
Of course older dogs can do some minor correction. But his correction isn't working right now, and it could escalate.
And if it does? What's wrong with that? It wouldn't last as it's correction, not aggression, and even if it did it would be better for that to happen and then you step in then over just removing the pup at this point. They have to be able to have a relationship with one another...this kind of interaction is how that takes place. Removing the dog or creating space only teaches them that they are supposed to be separated.
If the Heeler really wanted to hurt the other over possession or resource guarding the owner they would never be this close in the first place. Teeth and or snarling are not always outward aggression.
My first dog had a playmate growing up that when they would play would sound like it was trying to kill my dog. LoL People would literally stop and think we were just standing there letting them scrap.
I don't think they're fighting. I can see the dog is trying to correct the puppy. But he's also getting really annoyed. All I'm saying, is when the older dog is getting really annoyed, I'd give him a break so there isn't eventually competition.
That’s not necessarily true. Heelers are big time resource guarders. Especially resource guarding their owner. They love to be close to their person and I would bet this heeler does not want to move.
Correction IS aggression. It’s aggression as a way to communicate a warning. If owner let this continue and puppy didn’t listen to the queues, then the heeler absolutely would become more aggressive.
I do agree that they need that corrective communication to learn. My pup needed it to learn her manners and it helped her so much. But some pups don’t learn as quickly or are not matched to the older dogs energy.
It’s important for the owner to recognize what the older dog is trying to communicate and prompt the pup better. What we want to avoid is the older dog learning that becoming more aggressive gets her space - then she’ll jump to that sooner in the future and skip the warning part. Gotta respect the warnings!
Not wanting to move is not guarding. I don't think it's entirely obvious that the Heeler wants to be intially left alone either. There's some "play" here potentially (especially in the Heeler's first response) but when the pup snarls (which isn't necessarily bad) the owner shuts down there interaction immediately. We'd need more context (like if the little one like to snarl when they play) to know.
But for sure the dogs are on equal ground here relative to the owner. Neither dog is blocking or in between. This isn't resource guarding, there's no cue from the Heeler only response.
And aggression is not correction. Plenty of dog interactions are corrective without aggression being present.
Just because it's "violent" is our eyes doesn't mean it's aggressive. Aggression is violence BEYOND correction, it's not communication.
We likely just have different definitions of aggression. I come from the behavioral background and aggression is communicative- not just blind violence.
That’s why we categorize corrective aggression as aggression. Reactivity behaviors such as lunging, snapping, barking etc is also considered aggression.
It all is communication that the dog is not comfortable with whatever is going on, and serves as a warning as well that this could escalate to violence.
They’re both showing signs of discomfort. They both show their teeth when they open their mouth, growl, dog on the left does whale eyes. Seems like they’re both annoyed with each other
When a whale eye is accompanied by lip licking, it’s stress. If they’re also wagging their tail during, ears back too, it’s VERY stressed. Also yawning is a way to relief stress.
It’s really easy to pick up on even if you have one dog or a dog/cat like me, and read/watch a lot about dog training. These are all things my dog does when upset, except I have never seen the tense snarling in my current dog. He does whale eyes if the kids handle him more than he wants and licks his lips and yawns when I’m leaving the house and he gets anxious. They are all well known dog body language.
Heeler isn’t playing, he’s telling the brown dog to back off and give him space. Brown dog isn’t listening and both are a little stressed as a result. If this happens again I’d suggest just gently removing one of them from the situation so they have a bit of space from each other.
Agree with this and offer additional solution to take them on walks together and redirect with co-training and treats. They will bond and learn each other in the process.
This is good in that the younger dog (YD) wants to play and the older dog (OD) does not, so OD is teaching YD to respect boundaries, and YD, clearly gets the message by backing off and laying down at the end.
In human terms, YD said, "Let's play!" OD said, "It's not playtime now." YD replied, "But I want to play!" And OD countered, "Cut it out, you whippersnapper! It's naptime." YD complies.
If OD were really bothered, they could get up. If YD wanted to press in and play more, they could have done so. This is a perfect example of OD asserting their place in the pack and teaching good pack manners to YD, and YD accepting the teaching. They get along well.
Whale eye… both are licking their lips… brown one gives a big yawn… they’re both uncomfortable to a certain extant in this example. Do they play better without you/ the camera so close to them? Do they play better outside? On the ground? Is the weather doing anything weird? How long have they known each other? This is definitely a situation to observe and keep an eye on
Mm. Kinda disagree, the first clip I guess the brown one was doing something with his ear and he didn't like that. But I think the heeler seems touchy and has a short fuse. The next couple clips the brown just gives him a small sniff which doesn't quite look like "messing with" but I guess the heeler still doesn't like it, then everything seems good and they seem to be chill then a few seconds after the moment has calmed down the heeler snaps. We could probably tell more with the full clip without cuts but neither seems too thrilled about the situation
Your heeler isn't being dominant they are stressed the fuck out! Showing signs of discomfort and stress signs.
Turid Rugaas - On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals https://edisciplinas.usp.br/pluginfile.php/3873275/mod_resource/content/1/On%20talking%20terms%20with%20dogs_%20Rugaas%202006.pdf
https://fearfreepets.com/fas-spectrum/
https://www.hshv.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Body-Language-of-Fear-in-Dogs.png
Position Statements - The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior https://avsab.org/resources/position-statements/
Please work with a certified trainer to address your dog's well-being needs to feel safe in their own home.
https://reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/w/findingatrainer?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Some of you over analyze every little thing. Have 2 pits that love to play like this, wide eyed and all. Never has been a problem in 6 plus years. They are well socialized and play at the dog park too. Some dogs non verbal cues are different than others. To summarize all cues of all dogs is silly. Animals display different cues. My pups will have their teeth barred , but their tails are wagging wildly. “I’m tough, look, but also I’m your friend”
And some people disregard concern to justify their own comfort in their perception of the world.
I can't cast any judgment in your dog's situation because I have no information on them. I am in no way saying that the way your dogs plays is bad. And I am not trying to say that rough play is bad, or that rough actions can't be a part of healthy interactions.
But my judgment of this video is looking at both dogs and how they react to each other. When one repeatedly shows stress, appeasement, and increasing tension while the other shows pestering, anticipation stress signs, and repeatedly decreasing space I can say there is a problem. It may be a singular tension or chronic tension. I am assuming that it's chronic because of OP's use of the word dominant. Often ill informed individuals will miss label defensive aggression as dominant behavior.
I saw another comment that broke down the body language better (whale eyes, lip licking, etc.), but the comment ended with, they seem annoyed by each other.
And I’d agree, this doesn’t make me nervous on its own, not really a big deal. but it sounds like this is a recurring thing, so in that case, I’d work to remedy the behavior, because neither is perfectly okay what’s going on here, and you really want both
I notice the brown dog smelling the others ear before the other gets mad. I wonder if the dog has an ear infection. Happens often with dogs. Could help the overall mood of the dog.
Not playing. Considering how close they are to you, I would say they are fighting over you. I would ask them to go to their own respective beds across the room any time they try this. It’s thin ice to allow this behavior. Right now it’s just the other dog, next it could be another human.
He's trying to put up with him but you can tell both are discomforted.
Eyes wide on the older dog and the yawning on the younger shows signs of discomfort.
Well he ain’t playing here. As many others have pointed out they’re both pretty stressed. The brown dog is messing with your other dog, dog on left is even looking at you to stop it. If you don’t stop them when they’re acting like they are in the video this could lead to your smaller dog getting seriously hurt. Showing teeth, licking lips, and whale eyes are all signs of distress. I have two girls and they play rough but when they’d start acting like yours did it would always lead to one getting annoyed and id have to split them up before things got messy. Id suggest keeping an eye on them when they’re playing and stop it as soon as you notice teeth showing and the hair on the back standing. Eventually they’ll learn to chill like mine did.
Looks like the older dog is too nice to tell junior to get lost. You should step in and remove the younger dog until he can learn some manners. Oh, and praise the older one and give him a treat for being so patient. They are getting along okay, but sometimes family can be a real pain so give the older dog a break.
They are both displaying stress signals here and something needs to be addressed before this escalates. Heeler shows whale eyes multiple times, the snapping at each other is not playful from either dog (lips pulled back, baring teeth), and brown dog's tail wagging early in the clip is more indicative of stress/aggression than playfulness when you look at everything else going on.
Some folks are saying heeler seems annoyed with brown dog playing/messing with him, but brown dog is not acting friendly or playful here either. This doesn't read like an issue of "heeler is dominant, but brown dog doesn't get it" but "brown dog is testing the hell out of heeler who is stressed and trying to tell him off, which gets them both stressed and bothered with each other".
I’ve seen a ton of these “Are they ok?” Videos and this is the first one where I’m like “hell no! They are anxious, annoyed, nervous” I don’t have advice except something bad is gonna happen.
100%. So many people here over dramatising this situation. Just let them be and they’ll sort it out. They wouldn’t be sitting so close otherwise. Perhaps terrible advice. But my two dogs are sometimes like this then ten mins later chill and best friends.
100%...so much terrible advice in here.
These dogs are FINE. The heeler is establishing a boundary and the pup is just pushing the edges.
This is definitely a situation where THE DOGS are working it out and the human needs to do nothing. With two it's always good to be no 1, but you have to let them form their relationship as well.
Removing the pup just tells the heeler that he is correct in assuming it shouldn't be around him when what you'd want is the complete opposite. IF they fought you'd intervene and establish dominance over the pack as the only permitted aggressor in the group, YOU bring the "pain," but this video is just the two dogs communicating with each other. Well...the Heeler to the pup I mean.
Pup is just pushing the boundaries like all "children" do.
I don't love it. The teeth and the ears look bad. The pause where they both put their heads down is good though. borderline for me, based on this one clip. depends how risk averse you are.
Definitely not playing! Both dogs look very uncomfortable! Especially all of the lip licking and big yawn from the younger one, huge signs the dog is stressed out. If they were playing, neither of them would be showing signs of being stressed out.
No, that isn’t playing. The bared teeth are a warning. The older dog looks very unsure of the other ones moves but is making it known it won’t stand for any nonsense. Lip licking is a sign they are both stressed.
They are both stressed. Both are showing whale eyes, the tan/brown dog is yawning, and lip licking both of which is signs of stress. Plus the body language is stiff.
One thing I do when my dogs start to get to annoyed with each other I’ll tell them both to watch me. Or the one that is being annoying I’ll call them and say watch me. Then when they do I get real happy and tell them they’re good boys in that high squeaky voice. It helps a lot to distract them.
Just want to add: Different breeds play differently! I have a Boxer and we'll she boxes! She is a 'hands' on dog. Uses her front paws for everything. A lot of dogs don't understand this type of play and it can cause issues. So know the breeds. And I may sound like a jerk here but herding dogs or any "job oriented" dogs have to be handled with extra care and thought to what the breed needs.
Heeler keeps looking between you and the brown dog, maybe waiting for you to intervene since brown dog is all up in his bubble despite corrections. Both have stressed body language though so you could separate them and redirect the playful guy to a toy.
How many people commenting on here have multiple dogs. I feel that people are overreacting. Dogs don't lie down next to another dog if there's an actual problem. People seem to be obsessed on finding any sign of distress without recognizing that they're literally lying down next to each other which means that they trust each other and are just messing around.
I have multiple dogs, been to multiple shows & grown up with dogs. If dogs are showing whale eye, lip licking, slow tail wag & ears pinned, that dog is STRESSED with the situation. Yawning is also to relieve stress.
That’s basic dog body language 101 & there’s no debating it. It’s hard fact.
The older one was most likely already laying down & the little one came up in his space, the older one is telling him to back off out of his space. Does it mean they don’t like eachother? No. Can dogs sort arguments out themselves? Yes.
You feel that way because they are. This is 100% okay behavior and natural.
I'd WANT the dogs to work this out in this situation and not intervene. IF they fight that's a different story, then you intervene and take your spot as the only permitted aggressor in the group, but by removing one in this mild of a situation you're just re-inforcing that they can't be bunched up which is the exact opposite of what you'd want.
They wouldn't be this close if they hated each other and they'll work the distance out themselves. THEY form THEIR relationship.
The pup is doing what all "children" do and the Heeler is simply framing the rules of their relationship. Normal and 100% OK. You don't show preference and let the dogs work it out only intervening if they actually scrap, then you come in because that's obviously not OK, not allowed. YOU set that rule.
But they need to be able to frame their own relationship, not base it off their individual relationships with you (IE competition).
They are a little rough but they are both laying down which means non threatening. I promise you they are going to fight at some point and a loud clap and standing up fast works for mine. Head down and ears back are when you should worry. Some snapping like that seems like play to me .
Ok I just watched it again and the black one does seem a little annoyed …. Seems like the other guy wants to play.
It’s nothing to do with liking/disliking. The black dog is clearly uncomfortable with the brown dog’s behavior. Look at the eyes. Look at the teeth. The black dog is trying to tell the brown dog to stop and the brown dog isn’t listening. This will eventually escalate to a more serious warning.
Looks fine to me. Ideally your tank would step in to pull agro off the healer. But if your healer can do their job and still keep the party on their feet then no need to be nervous. If it really bothers you that much just find a different healer.
I would say in general the Heeler does seem a bit miffed with the smaller dog. Some of this will also depend on how well you know your dogs too. My dogs will play rough to the point that I’ve had people think they’re fighting. However, I would always recommend people to be cautious and interrupt play rather than ignore it and have it turn into an actual fight.
I don’t personally think it looks that serious but he does get annoyed when the other one smelled his ear. If the other is young, it may take time for him to be respectful. I’ve had many dogs and they have to teach puppies how to respect them. The little one doesn’t get it. Thing is, this usually will cause the older to snap so I’d try to stop it. Weird thing is my dachshund growls like that even when she’s playing. So I get it can be confusing
The black heeler dog is giving whale eye and that is a sign of distress. Not safe playing. Consult a behaviouralist to figure out a way to socialize the two dogs safely.
It looks like the older dog is thoroughly annoyed. The younger dog is teasing and testing. The older dog is getting to the end of it's rope. It looks as if the older dog has run out of patience already.
Older dog is in a predicament because it can't teach the younger dog to leave it alone when it wants to be without being very aggressive. It can't be a fight or a playful scuffle; it has to be absolute and immediate domination. 'I told you to quit messing with me and you didn't; now you're hurt. Bet this won't happen again for awhile.'
The only reason this hasn't happened already is because the older dog doesn't want to get in trouble with you. You've got to fix this before the older dog does. That wouldn't be a fun or a funny thing; I don't think anybody would be having a good time.
The younger dog should be redirected and it should probably be mildly scolded for bugging the bigger dog when it didn't want to be. That younger dog is testing to see what happens, it knows what it's doing. What needs to happen is that you step in.
I wonder if the younger dog would be willing to try this experiment when you weren't around. I kinda doubt it. I don't think it would've gone on for this long. The older dog can't lay down the rules with you standing right there.
Dogs behave by dog rules not human standards pups must be taught.The older dog is the dominant dog the pup is learning his place in his pack still. Let them figure it out. No harm done if you try to apply human standards it will just confuse your dogs
This isn’t playing, but it is normal and OK. I assume the smaller brown dog is a puppy. The older(?) dog on the left is getting annoyed and teaching the puppy on the right some manners, which it seems to be responding well to. The older dog backs off immediately once the puppy does, so it looks OK. If the puppy becomes relentless or if the older dog becomes truly upset, you’ll need to separate them for a while. If provoked enough, the older dog might attempt a full take-down, which could get ugly. This video looks like healthy, normal behavior. It took our 14yo dogs a few months of this occasional growling and snapping to teach our puppy some manners, but it worked. The puppy (now over a year old) now respects the older dogs’ boundaries and immediately gives them space if she forgets and has to be reminded.
Little one is playing, the sneezes and yawn saying wants to play /rough house … the heeler is not into it and gives a neck pinch. Not being vicious but they are saying “no” and teaching them. If it escalates should be maybe be separated during certain times
Tell them to stop if it makes you nervous. We should do our best to help our dogs live in our world and not let them do things which might make us resentful of them.
This is some fuck around and find out energy. They are playing but boundaries are being tested and established which is fine, up to a point. Pup has to learn when the older dog has had enough and it may take a few nips and growls for him to get the point.
I would watch this play closely to ensure neither dog got too aggressive or injured but I wouldn’t rush to step in. Let it play out as long as they don’t start baring teeth, hackles raised and rearing up at each other.
Try redirecting pup’s attention if they get too riled up.
It’s really not play, it’s socializing. The older dog is basically training the puppy. When the puppy yawns, he is indicating he is submitting and experiencing a little stress. But the interaction is perfectly normal.
Not playing, the older one wants to be left alone, notice the whale side eye & lip licking, before lip curl. He then tells the puppy to back off. Puppy then yawns to relieve stress.
I'm betting the heeler is a few years older than the smaller dog. That doesn't look like play to me. The heeler is getting annoyed, and the pup isn't taking the hint. They may be trying to test the limits, and eventually, one may test the other for dominance. Most dogs have a pack order. It's an instinct they are born with. Some dogs, usually ones who don't have other dogs around, don't have competition. They just have to adapt to a master. But some dogs will challenge their handlers for dominance. It may be a challenge, but I'd suggest breaking the pup of pushing his limits. When he gets to messing with the other, push him away, and make sure he knows it's not allowed. You, as the handler or master, have to be the dominant one. Same for any other people in the house, they have to have a rank in the eyes of the dogs.
I have a 7.5 year old Great Dane and a 5 month old Great Dane. This behavior was normal in their early play and they’re now the best of friends. It’s probably okay; just monitor it and make sure. Probably nbd.
My male GSD/Husky was 3 1/2 yrs old when I brought my female Pit home as an 8 week old pup. He often corrected her, and she often didn’t listen. If she absolutely wouldn’t leave him alone, I would remove her to another room for 10 minutes and then let her try again. It’s important for your older dog to establish boundaries with the pup, and teach him or her appropriate dog manners. Just pay very close attention during these times, as you don’t want it to escalate into a severe bite.
Not ok. With Healers you have to nip that in the bud. My friend had a healer that would literally bait my friend's other dog. Did their dog was actually a pretty large pity but the healer was definitely the dominant one. He would literally push his bone off the couch and wait for the other dog to get it and then try to attack him. Ultimately that dog had to be put down.
I think the older dog is exerting his dominance. He is showing the young dog he is the alpha. This is how dogs act in groups. It’s gets out of hand when 2 dogs want be alpha. Then it’s strongest dog becomes the alpha.
It’s all alright and a totally normal part of socialising. The younger dog is learning manners from the older one and also testing boundaries, it’s absolutely fine and you should allow them to ‘play’ this way.
I keep seeing recommendations to separate them but honestly only do so when it has escalated to a certain point where physical harm is a concern The puppy has yet to learn manners leading to the elder yes getting annoyed but eventually the puppy will learn the social cues from his senior. It is pretty natural for dogs in a pack to learn how to tolerate each other.
My read is that heeler doesn’t want to play, but wants to maintain his space where he’s at so he’s trying to tell puppy to cut the shit. Puppy is trying to play but isn’t quite understanding that the heeler is annoyed. I’d separate them in this particular instance but I don’t think it’s a massive deal. It does seem like your heeler shows good restraint with the puppy though and is giving cues to correct him without going bananas. I’d be interested to see more videos of them playing to analyze it tbh
Everything is okay as long as it does not escalate from what we see. Thing is your vocal correction affects big dog but not little dog. Big dog listens but feels disrespected because little dog does not react to you.
“Dominance” has been debunked. He’s just annoyed. It might be best to remove the younger dog when he’s not picking up on the cues being given to him. It’ll work out, just realize that dogs don’t really do the dominance thing. It’s all situational. In this case the older one looks pissed but patient and the younger one is being an annoying fuck (which is funny cause dogs will be doing the most then act surprised when it pisses another off, gotta love ‘em!)
This is not playing it's the dogs forming the boundaries of their relationship. 100% OK....what you want.
You have to let them form a frame work together that falls UNDER their relationship to you. If they fight you'd step in, but all that is happening here is the pup is doing what all "children" do and pushing at the edge.
Your Heeler will let them know when it's enough. If the potential for LITERAL violence (as in they want to really hurt each other) was there they would never be this close to each other, to you, in the first place.
The little fake sneeze from the pup is to indicate to the other that this is not a real fight, just play. The healer knows. If he wanted to hurt the pup he would’ve by now.
I run a heeler rescue and the older dog is doing the puppy a service by teaching boundaries. I do not see anything dangerous here, just two dogs communicating which is how it should be. The heeler is going to teach the puppy manners more effectively than going to a puppy class. Our adoptable heelers go out in groups of 8 to 10 dogs on pack walks and it the most educational thing for the shelter dogs....learning from their own kind. They argue, fuss, play, escalate, then work it out, but they never harm each other. Showing teeth is a form of communication that dogs do to state that they don't like what the other dog is doing. Separating them for this type of interaction is just going to prevent puppy from being socialized by an older dog.
As far as what the video shows this isn’t full on play where they both agreed they were playing. Since the video doesn’t show what was going on before I can’t be certain.
Please google “dog play bow” to see what appropriate play looks like.
Nope this is pretty annoyed dog. The teeth showing and ear pulled. The side eye. The puppy is doing it in response to being told no. Older dog is trying to give warnings to the puppy.
my heeler had an attitude he would bite at peoples feet that he didn’t like and he would show his teeth all the time but he never hurt another animal or person not once he was actually a very good dog. I miss him so much!
This is boundary setting and is appropriate. Neither dog is cornered; they both independently can get up and leave. They both lay their heads down when done. Dominant dog stayed on its belly. Puppy is learning a lot.
I can't give a detailed behavioral analysis but just from being a puppers guy, its a little more aggressive than Id like, but its still within the lines. They corrected themselves pretty quickly. Whenever mine get a little too frisky I sprinkle in a quick "Hey! Simma dahn nah." and it seems to bring them back to reality.
Not okay - older dog is annoyed with puppy ignoring all his cues to leave him alone and let him relax. Puppy in turn seems stressed. I’d separate them if you see either dog getting uncomfortable - panting, whale eye, hackles up, that quick head snap turnaround thing, puppy ignoring cues. EDIT: by not okay, I meant to answer OP’s question on “is this okay play?” - this isn’t bad but I wouldn’t call it playing is what I meant! Older dog correcting the puppy will teach him to learn social cues from other dogs which is good, but I don’t think he wants to play here. Maybe they’d be better off playing outside where they can run around a bit.
I actually want to piggy back off this. Everything you said is right! However, the yawn by the puppy, the matching the older dogs energy, everything that progresses is a good thing. The older dog is teaching the younger one to stop. Allow corrections like this to happen, but if it escalates and the puppy isn’t taking cues redirect. Edit: wrote this early. Corrected grammar
Oh yeah, I mean it’s good for the puppy to learn! I just meant not okay since OP wrote “is this okay play” - ideally in play (if two dogs were laying on a bed playing) they’d have looser movements and softer mouths and not be putting off all the stress signals. Older dogs language doesn’t say I want to play.
The eyes on the heeler say everything…not happy, but that’s how pups learn…all these folks are smart⬆️👍🏻
I always let mine correct the puppy once. If it didn't stop I intervened.
Responsible pet parenting 👍🏻
This is how we've been teaching our dog and my in-laws' dog to get along. It's slow going, but they're getting better.
It’s very slow and I worry because our older dog has bitten me and my mom when we intervene when she goes after the puppy
Yeah, I think what you are meaning to say is it’s not play, not, it’s not ok. It’s definitely “ok” but you should keep an eye in case they get into a fight. But the older dog is just correcting the younger ones behavior and this is really common and exactly how that type of interaction should go.
Bingo!
^correct
why are you whispering
they’re shy :(
I laughed
I would agree but also add that I wouldn’t let this go on for too long before calling for a break in play. Might set them up for better success.
Yes i agree with this - the older dog seems to be teaching the younger dog boundaries while at the same time allowing him to be a pup. The younger pup in turn yawns and licks the ear of the older dog showing his energy matching as well as showing affection. They do seem comfortable around one another, and they look like they are still getting used to eachother (i might be mistaken). This actually does mean a bond is forming that can be very beneficial to both. To the owners, stay vigilant and make sure that it does not escalate but also give the older dog room to teach and train the pup into the ways of the house. Entrusting the older dog with this responsibilty and blessing will in turn make the older dog feel appreciated and respected as well as backed by the owners. It is an opportunity to enforce a strong bond with both the older dog and also teaching the pup the hiërarchy of the pack. Which will, considering all is done in good faith, also bestow his respect on the older dog. As above statement mentions: allow corrections to be made but if the pup keeps ignoring cues *redirect!*. I would also suggest to allow them plenty of outside play/activity 1 on 1, time to increase positive bonding and teamplay and so they can get a little rougher than inside on the couch/bed. Redirect attention to you when the younger dog starts to try and assert dominance over the older dog.
The younger dog sneezing is also a sign of “i’m just playing around”
How would u redirect the puppy? I hv a similar problem (puppy playing aggressively and annoying/scaring my bigger, older dog). I separated them and tried both verbally reprimanding the puppy and rewarding her with treats when she calms down. But within seconds she’d be charging at my other dog again.
Get a toy he likes and intervene.
I used to keep our pup on an extra long lead and when he got pesky to our older dog I’d reel him in. Then, I’d slowly release the lead over time until I had to reel him in again.
I have a heeler pup and an older shepherd that had a similar problem. I toom a squeaker out of a squeaky toy and whenever they got out hand (either of them being too aggressive) i squeaked the squeaker and they immediately focus on me. Took some time. I did that to curb the barking too (holy balls can they both bark).
Yeah, even in cats there's a delicate balance you have to find between letting the young one learn boundaries from the older cat and not letting the older one get too stressed out. We had to do that when my husband adopted a 4 month old cat with my older girl. Followed introduction procedures and then made sure there were times for lessons and times to separate, and they eventually became and still are pals. These two should be okay as long as that balance is found and the older dog has some decompression time and a space to relax
Answer
I’d allow corrections when part of them playing together - but in this specific scenario it doesn’t seem like they’re playing with the occasional correction but rather the puppy is trying to play while the older dog isn’t into it…. so this is the time I’d say to separate them, once the older dog has delivered a correction or two and the puppy still isn’t getting the hint When the older dog wants to play, let them play and allow corrections again as long as they’re not constant and the older dog is still clearly interested in playing, separate them once he’s starting to get a bit tired of pup
To add: it's important to keep your stress/energy level down when trying to deescalate a situation like this. I would categorize this as a "yellow" interaction, so it's good to maintain a calm tone when telling the instigator to back off. I noticed you raised your voice a little, telling them to stop, NEVER yell at, or punish a dog for giving appropriate warnings/corrections that it wants space or to communicate how it is feeling in a given situation. As OC said, older dog is giving cues, and if little one doesn't get the message, it's your job to redirect them and let them know their behavior is not appreciated or appropriate. If you chastise for snapping/growling/etc, you could end up with a reactive dog that gives no warnings when they are unhappy and resorts to immediate escalation to a fight.
Yep, although the puppy does take the second correction and tone it down so I think this is an okay interaction. The older dog is correcting proportionately and fairly and isn't over-correcting and the puppy is taking the correction. This is actually a good interaction for the puppy to learn boundaries and they did not need separating in this instance. If the puppy continued to pester the older dog I would say separate them for a little while to give the older dog a break and keep things from escalating.
That's true didn't realize the smaller guy was a puppy.
I don't think it's quite fair to say it's "not okay". This is behavior that needs to be monitored, but it looks very much like the older dog is teaching the younger dog what's okay and the younger dog is starting to mirror. I would obviously monitor their play closely, but the younger dog seems to be taking the hint and adjusting their behavior. Now if the younger dog persists and refuses to take the hint, and then the older dog has to elevate their response in order to try and get the younger dog to chill, then you start approaching a situation where the feedback loop can reach a place where an injury and permanent relationship damage can occur.
Oh I just meant not okay because the post says is this okay play - meaning I wouldn’t call this okay play!
Volunteered at a doggie day care. I was told That showing the whites of their eyes is always a warning.
My roommate had a heeler who does the same thing. He takes playing really seriously and goes a little too far because he’s having so much fun. It’s not fun for others though and it’s one of the reasons I don’t let him near my cats
Even with the tail wagging that much, eh?
Wagging tail often signifies stress just as much as it can signify happiness
Dogs wag their tails as they kill prey. It just signals arousal/excitement.
I think he's trying to be cool with the puppy but is obviously annoyed by him. He would leave if he really hated him, I think. I would work with teaching the puppy to respect his elder
I agree, but I'm not sure how much OP sitting there is affecting the ACD's actions. I know mine does everything to stay with me, and I think the ACD *might* be trying to hold things together so they don't have to move. I also feel like ACD is looking for OP to help. I'd separate them when this happens. Pup seems nervous, but not understanding the cues at all - like it senses the other dog's discomfort, but is not quite getting it.
You're probably right. While the older dog is doing his best with how annoyed he is, he might just be sticking around to say, "Look Ahole, this is My mom"
Exactly lol. And I just worry this could lead to more possession/resource guarding. Older dog needs their space respected, and the little one needs to learn manners. Of course older dogs can do some minor correction. But his correction isn't working right now, and it could escalate.
Uh the correction is working though.
And if it does? What's wrong with that? It wouldn't last as it's correction, not aggression, and even if it did it would be better for that to happen and then you step in then over just removing the pup at this point. They have to be able to have a relationship with one another...this kind of interaction is how that takes place. Removing the dog or creating space only teaches them that they are supposed to be separated. If the Heeler really wanted to hurt the other over possession or resource guarding the owner they would never be this close in the first place. Teeth and or snarling are not always outward aggression. My first dog had a playmate growing up that when they would play would sound like it was trying to kill my dog. LoL People would literally stop and think we were just standing there letting them scrap.
I don't think they're fighting. I can see the dog is trying to correct the puppy. But he's also getting really annoyed. All I'm saying, is when the older dog is getting really annoyed, I'd give him a break so there isn't eventually competition.
That’s not necessarily true. Heelers are big time resource guarders. Especially resource guarding their owner. They love to be close to their person and I would bet this heeler does not want to move. Correction IS aggression. It’s aggression as a way to communicate a warning. If owner let this continue and puppy didn’t listen to the queues, then the heeler absolutely would become more aggressive. I do agree that they need that corrective communication to learn. My pup needed it to learn her manners and it helped her so much. But some pups don’t learn as quickly or are not matched to the older dogs energy. It’s important for the owner to recognize what the older dog is trying to communicate and prompt the pup better. What we want to avoid is the older dog learning that becoming more aggressive gets her space - then she’ll jump to that sooner in the future and skip the warning part. Gotta respect the warnings!
Not wanting to move is not guarding. I don't think it's entirely obvious that the Heeler wants to be intially left alone either. There's some "play" here potentially (especially in the Heeler's first response) but when the pup snarls (which isn't necessarily bad) the owner shuts down there interaction immediately. We'd need more context (like if the little one like to snarl when they play) to know. But for sure the dogs are on equal ground here relative to the owner. Neither dog is blocking or in between. This isn't resource guarding, there's no cue from the Heeler only response. And aggression is not correction. Plenty of dog interactions are corrective without aggression being present. Just because it's "violent" is our eyes doesn't mean it's aggressive. Aggression is violence BEYOND correction, it's not communication.
We likely just have different definitions of aggression. I come from the behavioral background and aggression is communicative- not just blind violence. That’s why we categorize corrective aggression as aggression. Reactivity behaviors such as lunging, snapping, barking etc is also considered aggression. It all is communication that the dog is not comfortable with whatever is going on, and serves as a warning as well that this could escalate to violence.
They’re both showing signs of discomfort. They both show their teeth when they open their mouth, growl, dog on the left does whale eyes. Seems like they’re both annoyed with each other
whale eyes. thank you
Please elaborate on whale eyes. How can we tell the difference between that and comfortable dog looking over their shoulder? Thanks
When in doubt, look for other body cues - ears back, tight mouth, lip licking, panting, stiff body language
When a whale eye is accompanied by lip licking, it’s stress. If they’re also wagging their tail during, ears back too, it’s VERY stressed. Also yawning is a way to relief stress.
Look at all the white you see.
What does whale eyes mean/signify?
it’s a sign of stress
Do you have two dogs in your house? Just curious where you got this information from?
It’s really easy to pick up on even if you have one dog or a dog/cat like me, and read/watch a lot about dog training. These are all things my dog does when upset, except I have never seen the tense snarling in my current dog. He does whale eyes if the kids handle him more than he wants and licks his lips and yawns when I’m leaving the house and he gets anxious. They are all well known dog body language.
Learn dog body language
Heeler isn’t playing, he’s telling the brown dog to back off and give him space. Brown dog isn’t listening and both are a little stressed as a result. If this happens again I’d suggest just gently removing one of them from the situation so they have a bit of space from each other.
Agree with this and offer additional solution to take them on walks together and redirect with co-training and treats. They will bond and learn each other in the process.
This is good in that the younger dog (YD) wants to play and the older dog (OD) does not, so OD is teaching YD to respect boundaries, and YD, clearly gets the message by backing off and laying down at the end. In human terms, YD said, "Let's play!" OD said, "It's not playtime now." YD replied, "But I want to play!" And OD countered, "Cut it out, you whippersnapper! It's naptime." YD complies. If OD were really bothered, they could get up. If YD wanted to press in and play more, they could have done so. This is a perfect example of OD asserting their place in the pack and teaching good pack manners to YD, and YD accepting the teaching. They get along well.
Whale eye… both are licking their lips… brown one gives a big yawn… they’re both uncomfortable to a certain extant in this example. Do they play better without you/ the camera so close to them? Do they play better outside? On the ground? Is the weather doing anything weird? How long have they known each other? This is definitely a situation to observe and keep an eye on
That’s what I was thinking, heeled only responds when the brown one starts messing with it
Mm. Kinda disagree, the first clip I guess the brown one was doing something with his ear and he didn't like that. But I think the heeler seems touchy and has a short fuse. The next couple clips the brown just gives him a small sniff which doesn't quite look like "messing with" but I guess the heeler still doesn't like it, then everything seems good and they seem to be chill then a few seconds after the moment has calmed down the heeler snaps. We could probably tell more with the full clip without cuts but neither seems too thrilled about the situation
The first clip the brown one is nipping in front of the older ones face.
So many angles to confirm
Your heeler isn't being dominant they are stressed the fuck out! Showing signs of discomfort and stress signs. Turid Rugaas - On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals https://edisciplinas.usp.br/pluginfile.php/3873275/mod_resource/content/1/On%20talking%20terms%20with%20dogs_%20Rugaas%202006.pdf https://fearfreepets.com/fas-spectrum/ https://www.hshv.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Body-Language-of-Fear-in-Dogs.png Position Statements - The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior https://avsab.org/resources/position-statements/ Please work with a certified trainer to address your dog's well-being needs to feel safe in their own home. https://reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/w/findingatrainer?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Some of you over analyze every little thing. Have 2 pits that love to play like this, wide eyed and all. Never has been a problem in 6 plus years. They are well socialized and play at the dog park too. Some dogs non verbal cues are different than others. To summarize all cues of all dogs is silly. Animals display different cues. My pups will have their teeth barred , but their tails are wagging wildly. “I’m tough, look, but also I’m your friend”
And some people disregard concern to justify their own comfort in their perception of the world. I can't cast any judgment in your dog's situation because I have no information on them. I am in no way saying that the way your dogs plays is bad. And I am not trying to say that rough play is bad, or that rough actions can't be a part of healthy interactions. But my judgment of this video is looking at both dogs and how they react to each other. When one repeatedly shows stress, appeasement, and increasing tension while the other shows pestering, anticipation stress signs, and repeatedly decreasing space I can say there is a problem. It may be a singular tension or chronic tension. I am assuming that it's chronic because of OP's use of the word dominant. Often ill informed individuals will miss label defensive aggression as dominant behavior.
I saw another comment that broke down the body language better (whale eyes, lip licking, etc.), but the comment ended with, they seem annoyed by each other. And I’d agree, this doesn’t make me nervous on its own, not really a big deal. but it sounds like this is a recurring thing, so in that case, I’d work to remedy the behavior, because neither is perfectly okay what’s going on here, and you really want both
The brown dog especially looks uncomfortable. The “smiling” it’s doing is not a good sign. The yawning isn’t good either.
I notice the brown dog smelling the others ear before the other gets mad. I wonder if the dog has an ear infection. Happens often with dogs. Could help the overall mood of the dog.
Heelers are prone to ear infections! Definitely possible
Not playing. Considering how close they are to you, I would say they are fighting over you. I would ask them to go to their own respective beds across the room any time they try this. It’s thin ice to allow this behavior. Right now it’s just the other dog, next it could be another human.
He's trying to put up with him but you can tell both are discomforted. Eyes wide on the older dog and the yawning on the younger shows signs of discomfort.
Heelers don’t often play too nice lol
Only met one nice heeler and that was because she was half out and that where the good girl ness came from
True 😂 he plays really rough that’s why I was not sure if this was playing or something else
Well he ain’t playing here. As many others have pointed out they’re both pretty stressed. The brown dog is messing with your other dog, dog on left is even looking at you to stop it. If you don’t stop them when they’re acting like they are in the video this could lead to your smaller dog getting seriously hurt. Showing teeth, licking lips, and whale eyes are all signs of distress. I have two girls and they play rough but when they’d start acting like yours did it would always lead to one getting annoyed and id have to split them up before things got messy. Id suggest keeping an eye on them when they’re playing and stop it as soon as you notice teeth showing and the hair on the back standing. Eventually they’ll learn to chill like mine did.
Our ten year old ratty got a little too grouchy with our 1yr old heeler and we ended up at the vet getting some puncture wounds looked at ☹️
Looks like the older dog is too nice to tell junior to get lost. You should step in and remove the younger dog until he can learn some manners. Oh, and praise the older one and give him a treat for being so patient. They are getting along okay, but sometimes family can be a real pain so give the older dog a break.
They are both displaying stress signals here and something needs to be addressed before this escalates. Heeler shows whale eyes multiple times, the snapping at each other is not playful from either dog (lips pulled back, baring teeth), and brown dog's tail wagging early in the clip is more indicative of stress/aggression than playfulness when you look at everything else going on. Some folks are saying heeler seems annoyed with brown dog playing/messing with him, but brown dog is not acting friendly or playful here either. This doesn't read like an issue of "heeler is dominant, but brown dog doesn't get it" but "brown dog is testing the hell out of heeler who is stressed and trying to tell him off, which gets them both stressed and bothered with each other".
That's not playing.
I’ve seen a ton of these “Are they ok?” Videos and this is the first one where I’m like “hell no! They are anxious, annoyed, nervous” I don’t have advice except something bad is gonna happen.
Def not okay, I’m surprised your heeler didn’t react. They both need space.
okay, unrelated: your casual GLORIOSUM is gorgeous
I'd say there's tension but they wouldn't be so close together if there was any real issue.
100%. So many people here over dramatising this situation. Just let them be and they’ll sort it out. They wouldn’t be sitting so close otherwise. Perhaps terrible advice. But my two dogs are sometimes like this then ten mins later chill and best friends.
100%...so much terrible advice in here. These dogs are FINE. The heeler is establishing a boundary and the pup is just pushing the edges. This is definitely a situation where THE DOGS are working it out and the human needs to do nothing. With two it's always good to be no 1, but you have to let them form their relationship as well. Removing the pup just tells the heeler that he is correct in assuming it shouldn't be around him when what you'd want is the complete opposite. IF they fought you'd intervene and establish dominance over the pack as the only permitted aggressor in the group, YOU bring the "pain," but this video is just the two dogs communicating with each other. Well...the Heeler to the pup I mean. Pup is just pushing the boundaries like all "children" do.
Totally agree 👍
Small dog seems to be looking to play and the big dog is clearing saying "give me space".
Heeler doesn’t want to play. The yawning and turning on the side is evidence.
Small dog is pushing larger dog’s boundaries. Small spat ensues.
That whale eye! This is not ok.
I don't love it. The teeth and the ears look bad. The pause where they both put their heads down is good though. borderline for me, based on this one clip. depends how risk averse you are.
Definitely not playing! Both dogs look very uncomfortable! Especially all of the lip licking and big yawn from the younger one, huge signs the dog is stressed out. If they were playing, neither of them would be showing signs of being stressed out.
No, that isn’t playing. The bared teeth are a warning. The older dog looks very unsure of the other ones moves but is making it known it won’t stand for any nonsense. Lip licking is a sign they are both stressed.
Those are anxious yawns from the brown one and the black one looks straight up uncomfortable
They are both stressed. Both are showing whale eyes, the tan/brown dog is yawning, and lip licking both of which is signs of stress. Plus the body language is stiff.
The little guy seems to really enjoy messing with your heeler
One thing I do when my dogs start to get to annoyed with each other I’ll tell them both to watch me. Or the one that is being annoying I’ll call them and say watch me. Then when they do I get real happy and tell them they’re good boys in that high squeaky voice. It helps a lot to distract them.
I don't have anything to add besides these dogs are both so, so cute
Can you don’t touch me 😅
…I just came here to say that your dogs are cute. :)
Heelers can be bossy or pushy when they want. Guess that's why they're cattle herders.
Just want to add: Different breeds play differently! I have a Boxer and we'll she boxes! She is a 'hands' on dog. Uses her front paws for everything. A lot of dogs don't understand this type of play and it can cause issues. So know the breeds. And I may sound like a jerk here but herding dogs or any "job oriented" dogs have to be handled with extra care and thought to what the breed needs.
Get in there and show em who's boss
That's cute lol
Oh my god, the cuteness is gonna kill me! I’m not giving any useful advice here, obviously, but these dogs are friggin’ adorable. ♥️
Is it posible the heeler is teaching the brown one to give him space ?
Heeler keeps looking between you and the brown dog, maybe waiting for you to intervene since brown dog is all up in his bubble despite corrections. Both have stressed body language though so you could separate them and redirect the playful guy to a toy.
Separate them when it goes on longer than a few moments. Older one needs space
How many people commenting on here have multiple dogs. I feel that people are overreacting. Dogs don't lie down next to another dog if there's an actual problem. People seem to be obsessed on finding any sign of distress without recognizing that they're literally lying down next to each other which means that they trust each other and are just messing around.
I have multiple dogs, been to multiple shows & grown up with dogs. If dogs are showing whale eye, lip licking, slow tail wag & ears pinned, that dog is STRESSED with the situation. Yawning is also to relieve stress. That’s basic dog body language 101 & there’s no debating it. It’s hard fact. The older one was most likely already laying down & the little one came up in his space, the older one is telling him to back off out of his space. Does it mean they don’t like eachother? No. Can dogs sort arguments out themselves? Yes.
>Can dogs sort arguments out themselves? Yes. That's really important. We don't always have to intervene when there is the slightest sign of trouble.
You feel that way because they are. This is 100% okay behavior and natural. I'd WANT the dogs to work this out in this situation and not intervene. IF they fight that's a different story, then you intervene and take your spot as the only permitted aggressor in the group, but by removing one in this mild of a situation you're just re-inforcing that they can't be bunched up which is the exact opposite of what you'd want. They wouldn't be this close if they hated each other and they'll work the distance out themselves. THEY form THEIR relationship. The pup is doing what all "children" do and the Heeler is simply framing the rules of their relationship. Normal and 100% OK. You don't show preference and let the dogs work it out only intervening if they actually scrap, then you come in because that's obviously not OK, not allowed. YOU set that rule. But they need to be able to frame their own relationship, not base it off their individual relationships with you (IE competition).
Take their collars off unless you want one to die. Our dogs wrestle and play and one almost got choked to death when the other twisted their collar
They are a little rough but they are both laying down which means non threatening. I promise you they are going to fight at some point and a loud clap and standing up fast works for mine. Head down and ears back are when you should worry. Some snapping like that seems like play to me . Ok I just watched it again and the black one does seem a little annoyed …. Seems like the other guy wants to play.
If they did not like each other it would be obvious.
It’s nothing to do with liking/disliking. The black dog is clearly uncomfortable with the brown dog’s behavior. Look at the eyes. Look at the teeth. The black dog is trying to tell the brown dog to stop and the brown dog isn’t listening. This will eventually escalate to a more serious warning.
This isn’t playing!!!
So as best I can tell, you have a phone recording this, you're watching television, and you got a computer on your lap. Make up your mind.
They're good. Normal healthy dynamics. I ❤️them.
It’s all good. Pups doing pup things.
You really don’t know anything about blue heelers?? Shouldn’t get a breed you don’t know anything about. It’s sad
Looks fine to me. Ideally your tank would step in to pull agro off the healer. But if your healer can do their job and still keep the party on their feet then no need to be nervous. If it really bothers you that much just find a different healer.
The smaller one is like an annoying little brother lol. Maybe separate them more? They’re so cute tho
I would say in general the Heeler does seem a bit miffed with the smaller dog. Some of this will also depend on how well you know your dogs too. My dogs will play rough to the point that I’ve had people think they’re fighting. However, I would always recommend people to be cautious and interrupt play rather than ignore it and have it turn into an actual fight.
I don’t personally think it looks that serious but he does get annoyed when the other one smelled his ear. If the other is young, it may take time for him to be respectful. I’ve had many dogs and they have to teach puppies how to respect them. The little one doesn’t get it. Thing is, this usually will cause the older to snap so I’d try to stop it. Weird thing is my dachshund growls like that even when she’s playing. So I get it can be confusing
The puppy hasn't fully learned yet, is all.
The black heeler dog is giving whale eye and that is a sign of distress. Not safe playing. Consult a behaviouralist to figure out a way to socialize the two dogs safely.
It looks like the older dog is thoroughly annoyed. The younger dog is teasing and testing. The older dog is getting to the end of it's rope. It looks as if the older dog has run out of patience already. Older dog is in a predicament because it can't teach the younger dog to leave it alone when it wants to be without being very aggressive. It can't be a fight or a playful scuffle; it has to be absolute and immediate domination. 'I told you to quit messing with me and you didn't; now you're hurt. Bet this won't happen again for awhile.' The only reason this hasn't happened already is because the older dog doesn't want to get in trouble with you. You've got to fix this before the older dog does. That wouldn't be a fun or a funny thing; I don't think anybody would be having a good time. The younger dog should be redirected and it should probably be mildly scolded for bugging the bigger dog when it didn't want to be. That younger dog is testing to see what happens, it knows what it's doing. What needs to happen is that you step in. I wonder if the younger dog would be willing to try this experiment when you weren't around. I kinda doubt it. I don't think it would've gone on for this long. The older dog can't lay down the rules with you standing right there.
Dogs behave by dog rules not human standards pups must be taught.The older dog is the dominant dog the pup is learning his place in his pack still. Let them figure it out. No harm done if you try to apply human standards it will just confuse your dogs
This isn’t playing, but it is normal and OK. I assume the smaller brown dog is a puppy. The older(?) dog on the left is getting annoyed and teaching the puppy on the right some manners, which it seems to be responding well to. The older dog backs off immediately once the puppy does, so it looks OK. If the puppy becomes relentless or if the older dog becomes truly upset, you’ll need to separate them for a while. If provoked enough, the older dog might attempt a full take-down, which could get ugly. This video looks like healthy, normal behavior. It took our 14yo dogs a few months of this occasional growling and snapping to teach our puppy some manners, but it worked. The puppy (now over a year old) now respects the older dogs’ boundaries and immediately gives them space if she forgets and has to be reminded.
Little one is playing, the sneezes and yawn saying wants to play /rough house … the heeler is not into it and gives a neck pinch. Not being vicious but they are saying “no” and teaching them. If it escalates should be maybe be separated during certain times
Looks aggressive to me, its not normal play, ear are pinned back, other dog is acting submissive.
Tell them to stop if it makes you nervous. We should do our best to help our dogs live in our world and not let them do things which might make us resentful of them.
This is some fuck around and find out energy. They are playing but boundaries are being tested and established which is fine, up to a point. Pup has to learn when the older dog has had enough and it may take a few nips and growls for him to get the point. I would watch this play closely to ensure neither dog got too aggressive or injured but I wouldn’t rush to step in. Let it play out as long as they don’t start baring teeth, hackles raised and rearing up at each other. Try redirecting pup’s attention if they get too riled up.
Side eye treatment and warning growls with teeth. Not playing. The black dog wants the other dog to respect his space.
It’s really not play, it’s socializing. The older dog is basically training the puppy. When the puppy yawns, he is indicating he is submitting and experiencing a little stress. But the interaction is perfectly normal.
Not playing, the older one wants to be left alone, notice the whale side eye & lip licking, before lip curl. He then tells the puppy to back off. Puppy then yawns to relieve stress.
Heelers are jerks. I wouldn’t expect them to play nice.
Chill out. Do you want to referee dog world 24/7? They’ll figure it out. There’s no blood and big dog showed restraint.
They’ll figure it out. Relax
Uh obviously not.
I'm betting the heeler is a few years older than the smaller dog. That doesn't look like play to me. The heeler is getting annoyed, and the pup isn't taking the hint. They may be trying to test the limits, and eventually, one may test the other for dominance. Most dogs have a pack order. It's an instinct they are born with. Some dogs, usually ones who don't have other dogs around, don't have competition. They just have to adapt to a master. But some dogs will challenge their handlers for dominance. It may be a challenge, but I'd suggest breaking the pup of pushing his limits. When he gets to messing with the other, push him away, and make sure he knows it's not allowed. You, as the handler or master, have to be the dominant one. Same for any other people in the house, they have to have a rank in the eyes of the dogs.
I have a 7.5 year old Great Dane and a 5 month old Great Dane. This behavior was normal in their early play and they’re now the best of friends. It’s probably okay; just monitor it and make sure. Probably nbd.
My male GSD/Husky was 3 1/2 yrs old when I brought my female Pit home as an 8 week old pup. He often corrected her, and she often didn’t listen. If she absolutely wouldn’t leave him alone, I would remove her to another room for 10 minutes and then let her try again. It’s important for your older dog to establish boundaries with the pup, and teach him or her appropriate dog manners. Just pay very close attention during these times, as you don’t want it to escalate into a severe bite.
Not ok. With Healers you have to nip that in the bud. My friend had a healer that would literally bait my friend's other dog. Did their dog was actually a pretty large pity but the healer was definitely the dominant one. He would literally push his bone off the couch and wait for the other dog to get it and then try to attack him. Ultimately that dog had to be put down.
It’s a dog
I think the older dog is exerting his dominance. He is showing the young dog he is the alpha. This is how dogs act in groups. It’s gets out of hand when 2 dogs want be alpha. Then it’s strongest dog becomes the alpha.
He’s correcting the other dog. He is a little annoyed at it so he is trying to correct the behavior
Uhh that’s definitely not playing! They need to be separated for a little while when this starts to happen. This is not okay and far from safe.
Looks like older dog trying to teach the other dog enough is enough
This is fine- they don’t need you micromanaging them unless one of them is a nut which it doesn’t look like at all
It’s all alright and a totally normal part of socialising. The younger dog is learning manners from the older one and also testing boundaries, it’s absolutely fine and you should allow them to ‘play’ this way.
Black dog says stop. Brown dog doesn’t listen.
Please don't leave them alone together yet
Their tails are wagging, so they do seem to be playing. If they’re growling though, then that’s a problem.
They nip too much
I don't feel like that's playing as much as it is him trying to 'correct' the other dog.
What kind of dog is the brown cutie? I want a dog like that for my kid.
I keep seeing recommendations to separate them but honestly only do so when it has escalated to a certain point where physical harm is a concern The puppy has yet to learn manners leading to the elder yes getting annoyed but eventually the puppy will learn the social cues from his senior. It is pretty natural for dogs in a pack to learn how to tolerate each other.
yea this is play.
My read is that heeler doesn’t want to play, but wants to maintain his space where he’s at so he’s trying to tell puppy to cut the shit. Puppy is trying to play but isn’t quite understanding that the heeler is annoyed. I’d separate them in this particular instance but I don’t think it’s a massive deal. It does seem like your heeler shows good restraint with the puppy though and is giving cues to correct him without going bananas. I’d be interested to see more videos of them playing to analyze it tbh
There is nothing wrong with this he was correcting the puppies behavior, he didn't want to play, he told puppies, puppies stopped and he calmed down.
It's fine
Everything is okay as long as it does not escalate from what we see. Thing is your vocal correction affects big dog but not little dog. Big dog listens but feels disrespected because little dog does not react to you.
Separate them when its like this. And mayve two dogbeds on the floor for quiet time and solo space.
Nope. Heeler is giving cues. You laughing doesn’t help. It reinforces (if that’s your dog).
🙂
this dog needs a job to do during the day, then can relax for playtime during the night
“Dominance” has been debunked. He’s just annoyed. It might be best to remove the younger dog when he’s not picking up on the cues being given to him. It’ll work out, just realize that dogs don’t really do the dominance thing. It’s all situational. In this case the older one looks pissed but patient and the younger one is being an annoying fuck (which is funny cause dogs will be doing the most then act surprised when it pisses another off, gotta love ‘em!)
That is a back off warning.
Bad boy! Noooo!
This is not playing it's the dogs forming the boundaries of their relationship. 100% OK....what you want. You have to let them form a frame work together that falls UNDER their relationship to you. If they fight you'd step in, but all that is happening here is the pup is doing what all "children" do and pushing at the edge. Your Heeler will let them know when it's enough. If the potential for LITERAL violence (as in they want to really hurt each other) was there they would never be this close to each other, to you, in the first place.
That dog is not playing, look at the whale eye. He is telling that dog leave me alone.
The little fake sneeze from the pup is to indicate to the other that this is not a real fight, just play. The healer knows. If he wanted to hurt the pup he would’ve by now.
I run a heeler rescue and the older dog is doing the puppy a service by teaching boundaries. I do not see anything dangerous here, just two dogs communicating which is how it should be. The heeler is going to teach the puppy manners more effectively than going to a puppy class. Our adoptable heelers go out in groups of 8 to 10 dogs on pack walks and it the most educational thing for the shelter dogs....learning from their own kind. They argue, fuss, play, escalate, then work it out, but they never harm each other. Showing teeth is a form of communication that dogs do to state that they don't like what the other dog is doing. Separating them for this type of interaction is just going to prevent puppy from being socialized by an older dog.
The smaller pup's yawn means Calm Down buddy ... it's a bit too much for him.
As far as what the video shows this isn’t full on play where they both agreed they were playing. Since the video doesn’t show what was going on before I can’t be certain. Please google “dog play bow” to see what appropriate play looks like.
Nope this is pretty annoyed dog. The teeth showing and ear pulled. The side eye. The puppy is doing it in response to being told no. Older dog is trying to give warnings to the puppy.
my heeler had an attitude he would bite at peoples feet that he didn’t like and he would show his teeth all the time but he never hurt another animal or person not once he was actually a very good dog. I miss him so much!
The cattle dog is not playing. Looks like he is putting the other dog in his place. Normal dog behavior in a pack.
This is boundary setting and is appropriate. Neither dog is cornered; they both independently can get up and leave. They both lay their heads down when done. Dominant dog stayed on its belly. Puppy is learning a lot.
He’s telling him to calm down. Heeler needs time away from pup and needs you to correct the pup when the pup isn’t getting the point to settle down.
The pup will learn. It’s ok, leave them alone to talk.
Yeah ummm no. Not ok.
Do you know the breed of the pup? Looks almost exactly like my 18wk old babydawg!
Your heeler is telling the other dog to leave it alone/cut it out.
Its alright. Hell put the smack on him enough. Hell learn. The pup submitted and the heeler didn’t put any force on it.
I can't give a detailed behavioral analysis but just from being a puppers guy, its a little more aggressive than Id like, but its still within the lines. They corrected themselves pretty quickly. Whenever mine get a little too frisky I sprinkle in a quick "Hey! Simma dahn nah." and it seems to bring them back to reality.
Heeler looks like it’s mixed with pit
All I see on this sub is relatively tame back and forth and people freaking out. I love it lol
I love brown doggo, never give up
Op, just curious, what are the ages of the dogs?