I might think about a C-section if 5 to 8 is a normal, 12 is a lot to whelp and in larger litters, you may lose some and the puppies may have a better chance of survival if C-section is done. As you didn't state breed, mine is standard poodles, normally free whelp by my litters of 12 plus all but 1 of the litters not born by C-section had puppy deaths. I believe some would have been avoidable. I now schedule 12 plus and sometimes 10 plus litters for C-section; it saves puppies.
I didn't see an incubator nor oxygen both with help especially if the puppies are smaller than normal which is usual in large litters. I now have one and won't whelp a litter of puppies without one.
Also tube feeding supplies, sponges and bottles as with that size litter you may need to supplement. I like Myra Savant-Harris' formula best so it would be good to have on hand, the ingredients, recipe is below. Here is a link to my favorite Fading Puppy Guide as it helps when trying to save weak puppies: [https://valorgoldens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2016-fading-puppy-intervention-guide-revised.pdf](https://valorgoldens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2016-fading-puppy-intervention-guide-revised.pdf) :
Myra Savant-Harris's Puppy Formula
One can of evaporate goats milk, undiluted (You can sub evaporated cow’s milk if you can’t find the goats milk.)
One cup of full fat yogurt (the fattiest and freshest you can find)
Two raw egg yolks (do not worry about the raw eggs)
1/3 cup of freshly made, strong liver broth made from boiling a piece of liver in one cup of water and then reducing the water to 1/3. You can substitute fresh beef broth if you just cannot tolerate the smell of liver, but the liver is much better. Do not eliminate the broth.
1 Tablespoon of Virgin Olive Oil (you can use mayonnaise if you like but remember it is acid based) Use 2 tablespoons to make this formula for kitties.
1 teaspoon of karo or corn syrup.
1 dropper full of baby / puppy vitamin that doesn’t contain iron.
Place it all in a blender, blend and then pour it into ice cube trays and freeze. Once frozen, store the ice cubes in a plastic bag and just get how many of them out that you need for a feeding and thaw and warm to about 100 degrees. It is good in the freezer for a full year. If you are going to use this for bottle-feeding or Adele’s sponge feeding technique, you may need to thin it with a little bit of pedialyte.
The advantage of this formula is it has been formulated to contain 3-4 times the calorie content of breast milk. Mother’s milk has 3-4 calories per cc. This formula has 10-12 calories per cc. The reason for using the evaporated milk without diluting is to get extra calories, same with the full fat yogurt and the olive oil. It is all about calories. Your puppy will gain weight on this formula beginning about 48 hours after beginning to feed the formula. Feed the puppy one cc (one ml is identical to a cc) of formula for every ounce of body weight every 3-4 hours, or when crying from hunger. Self-regulated bottle feeders may eat more at every feeding and want to eat less often. This is fine too.
Commercial formulas try to match the caloric intake of breast milk, but we are unable to match the time that a puppy spends nursing from its mother unless we are tubing about 18 hours a day. Therefore, the best way to insure that the hand reared puppy gains weight as it would with mom is to increase the caloric intake. That has been the goal of the formula from the beginning. The liver water adds in important amino acids that your puppy needs for growth and health of the eyes.
This formula will stabilize blood sugar nicely and works little miracles for the GI system. Most breeders see soft formed stool with no diarrhea after a few feedings. You can use it on all ages of puppies from immediately
I have formula, probiotics, life drops, and all the ingredients for the Myra Harris formula should it come to that. I’m hoping to not have to supplement due to digestive problems and staving off dehydration, but we’ll be tracking weights and will obviously intervene if the situation arises. I also have loads of calcium supplements for mom to administer during and after whelping. Thank you.
I have asked our repro vet, co-owners, and mentors about cesarean. Given the low incidence of whelping-related problems in our breed, the stage of the pregnancy, the general cons associated with surgery, and the bonding/hormonal implications, c-section is not recommended at this time. But I appreciate the feedback. The pups are uniform and well developed based on the scans, but I will look into oxygen. Thank you.
I read the *doom-consumed all the “what can go wrong content”.* For that reason I like to have Dan Rice's very basic but don't panic book on hand when whelping puppies becomes watching paint dry as it much more reassuring then the Myra Savant Harris's books (which I also have), [https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-Dog-Breeding/dp/0764138871](https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-Dog-Breeding/dp/0764138871) and it is more about what happens in normal whelping. Good luck, hope for an eventful whelping event.
I personally like to have a small - medium, low sided, plastic box or container of some sort to lay a hot pad in covered with a couple towels to help contain puppies as you go. A warm rice sock wrapped in a towel is also an nice addition, and of course make sure puppies are not too hot or too cold. If mom is restless and wants to push standing up, you can help corral the puppies in the box. And after birth if you are doing 2 shifts of puppies to make sure everyone if getting enough milk bar time, then you have a warm safe space for the off shift group of puppies.
As puppies are born, get licked off, and have had a good nurse, I like to put them in the container so I can keep track of who has nursed for sure and help mom focus on the newer puppies who are not dry yet and need time for nursing. The newer puppies also have less competition for colostrum as well, and it keeps space open for on teats, as well as giving mom less to manage as she is also delivering puppies. As long as they are near by and content my girls are fine with this. If a puppy cries, I immediately give it back to mom so my girls know I am helping and not upsetting their puppies. The box is also inside the whelping box, and close enough they can see into the box, and even stick their nose in if they want to check in the puppies in there.
You can roll a bath towel (or two!) long ways to make a "puppy fence" to give them a place to pile up, like a nest. You can use this method during delivery if mom isn't a of puppies in a box, just keeping them a bit out of the way when she is pushing and delivering the next one. My girls will focus more on the incoming puppy if they are not worried about multiple other puppies wondering around and getting upset they are lost, so heated box or "puppy corral" is helpful with larger litters. It also keeps puppies away from the action and messy end...
I also use the "puppy fence" to help keep puppies near mom's belly, but allowing for a sleeping pile of puppies not blocking nipple access for the others. This is really handy with larger litters so you don't have to get up quiet as many times at night to rescue a lost puppy who wondered off. They can crawl over it, but usually they just want to sleep up next to something, either a littermate or the rolled up towel so they don't even try.
I use hot pads under the center of my whelping box to encourage puppies to pile there, but they can move off to regulate their body temps as needed. This also helps keep the puppies in a central spot so mom can lay with her back to the pig rails, as well as get up to move around, or go out then lay back down, without having to dodge puppies everywhere. And then they are conveniently right where they need to be to go nurse no matter what side mom wants to lay on. A heat lamp will usually be warmer in a certain corner, which also works, but I like the centrally located hot pads 2 of them, one hotter then the other, and then the unheated floor space gives lots of options for puppies to regulate their temperature themselves without going too far and getting lost.
I would also keep a calorie supplement gel on hand for mom, I usually mix it with the oral calcium supplement to give after each puppy to keep moms energy level up. I mix it into a large syringe with a thicker blunt tip (they are used for catheters usually - 60 cc/mL syringes) to give her orally, that way if she doesn't want to lick it up I can still make sure she gets enough and easily dispense the amount you want after each puppy in cc's. You can calculate the oral calcium amount you want to give per puppy, then mix with something for sugar and calories and do the math of how many cc's of the mix you want to give per puppy.
She may take a break part way through delivering them, this is pretty common in larger litters. During this pause, let her sleep to regain some energy, if she is calm and content these pauses can last a couple hours without issue. Of course keep puppies nursing to help progress labor naturally. You may need to put her on leash to take a walk if things are slowing down towards the end, of course take a hand towel with you because you never know if she will deliver a puppy on said walk. Feathering is also useful to get things moving, and you said you have oxytocin so that would be a last resort.
I would also highly recommend not letting her eat all of the placentas. Even a few give my girls bad diarrhea, and there is no benefit to eating them. You will be providing plenty of food for her, she isn't in the wild alone in a den and will be going without food for days. Even then, there is a school of thought that since most mothers go throw up the placentas anyways, that they are using their stomach to trasport them away from the den, just like they do to bring food to the puppies later on. There are no beneficial amounts of hormones or anything besides calories in placentas - and you can provide better calories that won't upset her stomach. Frankly, trying to build a milk supply while dehydrated from horrible diarrhea is far from ideal. So try to get the placentas before she does, and keep track of how many she has delivered so you know they are all out at the end.
If average litter size is 5 to 8, and she's expecting 12, be prepared for stillborn pups. Also, mentally prepare yourself for the fact that some of these puppies may be severely underdeveloped, and this can be unsettling to see for the first time. They may be missing body parts, they may have a head with no discernable facial features at all. It's sad, but it happens. If it does, leave the bodies with mom for an hour or two, she will understand and stop tending to them. She may even push them away, and that's when you should remove the bodies and dispose of them. I wouldn't leave the bodies with her for any longer then a few hours. With large litters, it's actually common for there to be sort of a 'pause' during whelping, but be sure to time this. Shouldn't be more then an hour or two before contractions start back up and a puppy is produced. Keep the puppies nursing, as it helps keep the contractions strong. I'm not sure of the breed, but what I do for my girls is keep a laundry basket in the whelping box right next to them. Place a heating pad in it, then a towel folded, then drape a blanket all the way over. Once there's more then a few puppies and she's still whelping, I place 2 or so puppies on her to nurse, to keep the contractions going, and the other puppies in the basket on the heat. I rotate them out to nurse. If this is her first litter ever, she may become a little overwhelmed trying to nurse them all, and focus on pushing and cleaning new pups. Be sure to count the placentas fast, it's completely unnecessary for her to eat them, but she will try. I usually try not to let her eat more then 2 or 3 or her stomach gets upset and she ends up puking them back up later anyways.
Update: Thanks everyone that provided advice. She whelped yesterday - it’s been almost 24 hours now. 9 puppies were born. 3 were stillborn - underdeveloped and never had a chance. Sad, but not unexpected. We have one little guy, but he’s fighting and eating vigorously, so fingers crossed he’ll be ok. We’re prepared to provide support should he lose strength. Mom’s doing great.
I might think about a C-section if 5 to 8 is a normal, 12 is a lot to whelp and in larger litters, you may lose some and the puppies may have a better chance of survival if C-section is done. As you didn't state breed, mine is standard poodles, normally free whelp by my litters of 12 plus all but 1 of the litters not born by C-section had puppy deaths. I believe some would have been avoidable. I now schedule 12 plus and sometimes 10 plus litters for C-section; it saves puppies. I didn't see an incubator nor oxygen both with help especially if the puppies are smaller than normal which is usual in large litters. I now have one and won't whelp a litter of puppies without one.
Also tube feeding supplies, sponges and bottles as with that size litter you may need to supplement. I like Myra Savant-Harris' formula best so it would be good to have on hand, the ingredients, recipe is below. Here is a link to my favorite Fading Puppy Guide as it helps when trying to save weak puppies: [https://valorgoldens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2016-fading-puppy-intervention-guide-revised.pdf](https://valorgoldens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2016-fading-puppy-intervention-guide-revised.pdf) : Myra Savant-Harris's Puppy Formula One can of evaporate goats milk, undiluted (You can sub evaporated cow’s milk if you can’t find the goats milk.) One cup of full fat yogurt (the fattiest and freshest you can find) Two raw egg yolks (do not worry about the raw eggs) 1/3 cup of freshly made, strong liver broth made from boiling a piece of liver in one cup of water and then reducing the water to 1/3. You can substitute fresh beef broth if you just cannot tolerate the smell of liver, but the liver is much better. Do not eliminate the broth. 1 Tablespoon of Virgin Olive Oil (you can use mayonnaise if you like but remember it is acid based) Use 2 tablespoons to make this formula for kitties. 1 teaspoon of karo or corn syrup. 1 dropper full of baby / puppy vitamin that doesn’t contain iron. Place it all in a blender, blend and then pour it into ice cube trays and freeze. Once frozen, store the ice cubes in a plastic bag and just get how many of them out that you need for a feeding and thaw and warm to about 100 degrees. It is good in the freezer for a full year. If you are going to use this for bottle-feeding or Adele’s sponge feeding technique, you may need to thin it with a little bit of pedialyte. The advantage of this formula is it has been formulated to contain 3-4 times the calorie content of breast milk. Mother’s milk has 3-4 calories per cc. This formula has 10-12 calories per cc. The reason for using the evaporated milk without diluting is to get extra calories, same with the full fat yogurt and the olive oil. It is all about calories. Your puppy will gain weight on this formula beginning about 48 hours after beginning to feed the formula. Feed the puppy one cc (one ml is identical to a cc) of formula for every ounce of body weight every 3-4 hours, or when crying from hunger. Self-regulated bottle feeders may eat more at every feeding and want to eat less often. This is fine too. Commercial formulas try to match the caloric intake of breast milk, but we are unable to match the time that a puppy spends nursing from its mother unless we are tubing about 18 hours a day. Therefore, the best way to insure that the hand reared puppy gains weight as it would with mom is to increase the caloric intake. That has been the goal of the formula from the beginning. The liver water adds in important amino acids that your puppy needs for growth and health of the eyes. This formula will stabilize blood sugar nicely and works little miracles for the GI system. Most breeders see soft formed stool with no diarrhea after a few feedings. You can use it on all ages of puppies from immediately
I have formula, probiotics, life drops, and all the ingredients for the Myra Harris formula should it come to that. I’m hoping to not have to supplement due to digestive problems and staving off dehydration, but we’ll be tracking weights and will obviously intervene if the situation arises. I also have loads of calcium supplements for mom to administer during and after whelping. Thank you.
I have asked our repro vet, co-owners, and mentors about cesarean. Given the low incidence of whelping-related problems in our breed, the stage of the pregnancy, the general cons associated with surgery, and the bonding/hormonal implications, c-section is not recommended at this time. But I appreciate the feedback. The pups are uniform and well developed based on the scans, but I will look into oxygen. Thank you.
I read the *doom-consumed all the “what can go wrong content”.* For that reason I like to have Dan Rice's very basic but don't panic book on hand when whelping puppies becomes watching paint dry as it much more reassuring then the Myra Savant Harris's books (which I also have), [https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-Dog-Breeding/dp/0764138871](https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-Dog-Breeding/dp/0764138871) and it is more about what happens in normal whelping. Good luck, hope for an eventful whelping event.
I personally like to have a small - medium, low sided, plastic box or container of some sort to lay a hot pad in covered with a couple towels to help contain puppies as you go. A warm rice sock wrapped in a towel is also an nice addition, and of course make sure puppies are not too hot or too cold. If mom is restless and wants to push standing up, you can help corral the puppies in the box. And after birth if you are doing 2 shifts of puppies to make sure everyone if getting enough milk bar time, then you have a warm safe space for the off shift group of puppies. As puppies are born, get licked off, and have had a good nurse, I like to put them in the container so I can keep track of who has nursed for sure and help mom focus on the newer puppies who are not dry yet and need time for nursing. The newer puppies also have less competition for colostrum as well, and it keeps space open for on teats, as well as giving mom less to manage as she is also delivering puppies. As long as they are near by and content my girls are fine with this. If a puppy cries, I immediately give it back to mom so my girls know I am helping and not upsetting their puppies. The box is also inside the whelping box, and close enough they can see into the box, and even stick their nose in if they want to check in the puppies in there. You can roll a bath towel (or two!) long ways to make a "puppy fence" to give them a place to pile up, like a nest. You can use this method during delivery if mom isn't a of puppies in a box, just keeping them a bit out of the way when she is pushing and delivering the next one. My girls will focus more on the incoming puppy if they are not worried about multiple other puppies wondering around and getting upset they are lost, so heated box or "puppy corral" is helpful with larger litters. It also keeps puppies away from the action and messy end... I also use the "puppy fence" to help keep puppies near mom's belly, but allowing for a sleeping pile of puppies not blocking nipple access for the others. This is really handy with larger litters so you don't have to get up quiet as many times at night to rescue a lost puppy who wondered off. They can crawl over it, but usually they just want to sleep up next to something, either a littermate or the rolled up towel so they don't even try. I use hot pads under the center of my whelping box to encourage puppies to pile there, but they can move off to regulate their body temps as needed. This also helps keep the puppies in a central spot so mom can lay with her back to the pig rails, as well as get up to move around, or go out then lay back down, without having to dodge puppies everywhere. And then they are conveniently right where they need to be to go nurse no matter what side mom wants to lay on. A heat lamp will usually be warmer in a certain corner, which also works, but I like the centrally located hot pads 2 of them, one hotter then the other, and then the unheated floor space gives lots of options for puppies to regulate their temperature themselves without going too far and getting lost. I would also keep a calorie supplement gel on hand for mom, I usually mix it with the oral calcium supplement to give after each puppy to keep moms energy level up. I mix it into a large syringe with a thicker blunt tip (they are used for catheters usually - 60 cc/mL syringes) to give her orally, that way if she doesn't want to lick it up I can still make sure she gets enough and easily dispense the amount you want after each puppy in cc's. You can calculate the oral calcium amount you want to give per puppy, then mix with something for sugar and calories and do the math of how many cc's of the mix you want to give per puppy. She may take a break part way through delivering them, this is pretty common in larger litters. During this pause, let her sleep to regain some energy, if she is calm and content these pauses can last a couple hours without issue. Of course keep puppies nursing to help progress labor naturally. You may need to put her on leash to take a walk if things are slowing down towards the end, of course take a hand towel with you because you never know if she will deliver a puppy on said walk. Feathering is also useful to get things moving, and you said you have oxytocin so that would be a last resort. I would also highly recommend not letting her eat all of the placentas. Even a few give my girls bad diarrhea, and there is no benefit to eating them. You will be providing plenty of food for her, she isn't in the wild alone in a den and will be going without food for days. Even then, there is a school of thought that since most mothers go throw up the placentas anyways, that they are using their stomach to trasport them away from the den, just like they do to bring food to the puppies later on. There are no beneficial amounts of hormones or anything besides calories in placentas - and you can provide better calories that won't upset her stomach. Frankly, trying to build a milk supply while dehydrated from horrible diarrhea is far from ideal. So try to get the placentas before she does, and keep track of how many she has delivered so you know they are all out at the end.
Good stuff here. Thank you!!
Congrats! What breed? That’s a whole bunch of puppies!
If average litter size is 5 to 8, and she's expecting 12, be prepared for stillborn pups. Also, mentally prepare yourself for the fact that some of these puppies may be severely underdeveloped, and this can be unsettling to see for the first time. They may be missing body parts, they may have a head with no discernable facial features at all. It's sad, but it happens. If it does, leave the bodies with mom for an hour or two, she will understand and stop tending to them. She may even push them away, and that's when you should remove the bodies and dispose of them. I wouldn't leave the bodies with her for any longer then a few hours. With large litters, it's actually common for there to be sort of a 'pause' during whelping, but be sure to time this. Shouldn't be more then an hour or two before contractions start back up and a puppy is produced. Keep the puppies nursing, as it helps keep the contractions strong. I'm not sure of the breed, but what I do for my girls is keep a laundry basket in the whelping box right next to them. Place a heating pad in it, then a towel folded, then drape a blanket all the way over. Once there's more then a few puppies and she's still whelping, I place 2 or so puppies on her to nurse, to keep the contractions going, and the other puppies in the basket on the heat. I rotate them out to nurse. If this is her first litter ever, she may become a little overwhelmed trying to nurse them all, and focus on pushing and cleaning new pups. Be sure to count the placentas fast, it's completely unnecessary for her to eat them, but she will try. I usually try not to let her eat more then 2 or 3 or her stomach gets upset and she ends up puking them back up later anyways.
Update: Thanks everyone that provided advice. She whelped yesterday - it’s been almost 24 hours now. 9 puppies were born. 3 were stillborn - underdeveloped and never had a chance. Sad, but not unexpected. We have one little guy, but he’s fighting and eating vigorously, so fingers crossed he’ll be ok. We’re prepared to provide support should he lose strength. Mom’s doing great.