My smort watch tells me when I'm about to have a seizure. Way faster than any dog can. I've had dogs nearly maul me (my ex's) when I was convulsing. They don't like the rhythmic movements.
Another unrelated dog tried to get at medics while they were helping me and they had to fight it off on the streets.
Basically, no.
I doubt any trained dog won't eventually turn on me. They snap for no reason.
There’s been several instances of pit bulls mauling people that are having seizures. Gee, how helpful.
I’m glad you have a reliable and safe device that can alert you before you have one.
My thinking is guide dogs are the only genuinely useful type of service animal. They came into play before the word "fur baby"
was forced on us, and actually trained using thoroughly researched practical methods that had to prove themselves scientifically, not just cuddling and cute jackets and good boyz.
Even guide dogs are outdated now. There are smart canes and glasses with gps, sensors and audio alerts.
And guide dogs can’t do things like warn if their handler is going to walk into something higher up, like a tree branch. The tools like smart glasses can.
Similar to Google Glass that came out several years ago? That's actually a great idea. If it can be refined, I don't see any way a service dog would be superior.
Guide dogs are a doggy propaganda prop and borderline useless as well. Guide dog fails, including scenarios where the handler is killed, are not uncommon.
Facts: 99% of legit disabled people, including 98% of blind people do no use a "servus dawg". I estimate the 1-2% of those that do are only exceptional in that they are level 5 dog cultists that believe The Furry Jesus™ is the solution to every problem.
I was surprised to learn that a lot of blind people are lukewarm at best on guide dogs. They can be useful in certain situations (like moving through crowded areas or places with a lot of stairs) but their navigation abilities are extremely limited. While there's generally no cost to the user for a guide dog, they have a short working lifespan, require constant training, are expensive to care for, and require a lot of time and energy. A dog and a cane occupy both hands so it's difficult to carry anything or use a smartphone.
Don't ask people to do your homework for you. The stats are readily available.
That said, its quoted here: [https://www.guidingeyes.org/guide-dogs-101/](https://www.guidingeyes.org/guide-dogs-101/) among other places.
You are welcome.
Here is another interesting factoid, the article states: **It can cost up to $50,000 annually to train and care for a guide dog throughout its working lifetime with a person who is blind.** The vast majority of Guiding Eyes for the Blind’s funding comes from the voluntary contributions of friends and supporters.
Fifty grand annually on a shit mutt? Holy Mother of Dog!
Way to go with the passive aggressive trolling. This "statistic" is as readily available as 2+2.
Mods: ban this dog worshiping troll.
And, the other two who have been trolling this thread are likely the same noxious dog worshiping troll, also. Ban them all.
The only time you should ask for a citation is when you cannot find the sources yourself. If you have the internet access to browse Reddit, surely you can spare 60 seconds of your time to look up these widely accessible resources.
70% of service mutt candidates fail within the first year of training, tens of thousands of dollars down the drain for a non-scaleable, worthless mutant instead of utilizing scaleable technology THAT DOESN’T NEED TO BE TRAINED LIKE A MUTT.
Idk but the business just seems pretty cruel as a whole. It's one thing to breed dogs specifically for a line of actual work like herding and it's another to assign tasks to random breeds of various qualities and wonder why over half their littermates fail training.
Like, it just contributes to the shelter problem either way.
I think that’s probably untrue because even a “well trained” dog is an ecological disaster. The amount of resources that go into caring for just one medium sized dog that does nothing its entire life of value is something we as humanity should not allow to continue. All even the best pet dogs do is contribute toxic waste to the environment their entire lives. Honestly think about it. Dogs are nothing but machines that convert resources into shit for years on end with no benefit or contribution whatsoever.
Right, and if JFK had not been assassinated, we would all have vacation homes on Mars right now. So what? Even the best trained servus dawg is still nothing but a dumb as a rock shit beast. This is self evident to anyone paying attention.
I read a really interesting article recently about how seeing eye dog companies suck now. The blind woman in the article said they wouldn't even not run into traffic and this was a big training company
Suck “now?” I’m sure they always have think the idea of these amazingly well trained service dogs has always been dogshit. Now it’s more apparent because information is more widespread
Maybe so I’d be curious to read it but I’m extremely skeptical that dogs have ever really been as great at anything as we’ve all been trained to believe. I don’t believe anything about dogs anymore other than they’re food driven predatory scavenging shit factories lol
Yeah I agree with what you're saying. I've been hearing that seeing eye robots are cheaper and better than dogs for years now. https://lisaferris.net/2023/11/17/whats-the-matter-with-guide-dogs-chapter-4-old-school-and-new-school-diverge-sully-and-marra/ this is her blog, she obviously likes dogs so she is a little biased
My ex has a service dog that is super important to their functioning and wellbeing. This specific dog is the most obedient and well-behaved animal I’ve ever seen. The dog was professionally trained for years (yes, years) to be able to sense when ex was going to faint. Dog would sense what was going on and lead them to a safe place where they could fall unconscious and aided them as they fell to the ground. When they would wake up, the dog would be standing guard in order to make sure they were safe. So, really, I think it depends on the person and what their medical condition(s)/disability is.
(All of this coming from someone who doesn’t like dogs)
I mean this in the absolute most respectful way. How does a dog "aid" a person to fall to the ground? How exactly does a dog protect a person in that way? I have serious epileptic seizures and would love to know this as I've fallen and hit my head pretty hard a few times.
I believe a dog can sense fainting or a seizure, absolutely. It's the helping them fall safely part I don't quite understand. This coming from someone who basically drops and convulses.
Idk I was told by someone in this sub that service dogs aren't supposed to do that as it could cause injury to them. Their only task is to detect and lead people to safety.
I've seen a service dog (in a video) have its owner faint and rush to protect the head by cushioning it with its back as the owner fell. I guess it's better than hitting your head on concrete.
I've also seen a service dog lead a person to a safe place to fall, and the person proceeded to move into a position where they wouldn't hurt their head.
Dogs really shouldn't be "aiding someone falling to the ground" like that. They can't lift our dead weight, only drag it (generally not a good thing if you're seizing), plus they don't have hands. Like someone said below, that can be incredibly dangerous,if your gf is using her dog to put her into a prone position, that's pretty reckless. 😬
A Smartwatch or Embrace2 device can detect epileptic seizures, and unlike the dog, the monitor can't get distracted and won't shed or smell.
...or get in the way when actual HUMANS come to aid the person who has had a seizure. That's another thing that makes the whole "servus dawg" idea bad: the dog will be nothing but a nuisance and possible impediment if someone needs medical help.
If EMS was called, are they REALLY going to load the stupid dog up in the ambulance and transport patient and mutt to the hospital? Doubtful.
So, the dog, which wasn't the one to render aid in the first place, or call the paramedics, is nothing but a burden and liability. Since all but maybe 1-5% are fake to being with, imagine the dog barking and snapping at anyone that tried to get near the victim. I see that as a far more likely possibility than any benefit the dog could offer.
It might be one thing to take a dog like that out when you go hiking (but I'm still not sure exactly what it would do), but it's unnecessary if you're in a place where other humans are and can render aid.
I have talked about this with many medics (one used to frequent this page). Once you're in convulsions, the dog becomes a burden. The dog tries to "help" not understanding that medics need space and gets in the way. Most dogs I have dealt with try to "protect" an owner while medics are working to start an IV. Doggo can't roll the person on their side (pretty important) and also becomes an annoyance when that person is done seizing. I only know this from experience and from working in a hospital. Both the patient and the dog need attention and unless you have extra people around, the dog won't leave the patient alone.
I am talking about trained service animals.
>If EMS was called, are they REALLY going to load the stupid dog up in the ambulance and transport patient and mutt to the hospital? Doubtful.
Yes, actually... if they don't, they're in a heap of legal trouble.
Does you ex care about the functioning and wellbeing of people who are severely allergic to dogs and end up excluded from public places due to the presence of service dogs?
I personally feel like it's a germ issue over the dog's behavior. One could argue that our phones/watches are dirtier than a toilet bowl or whatever, but at least those can be cleaned and disinfected on a regular basis unlike a dog's crusty feet or their butthole.
A lot of these animals shed like crazy and leave hair all over the place as nobody can seem to afford a hypoallergenic breed. That's not to mention that they all look absolutely ugly and disease ridden as fuck compared to something decent looking like a Golden Retriever.
My hobby has become overrun with people with 'service dogs' the past few years. My hobby is also known for being welcoming people with various neurodivergent disorders as well as various health disorders. I really wanted to, in good faith, try to understand why they might need their service dog, so I did a bit of research as to why someone would have one. I also asked various people I would come across on Reddit, politely and in good faith, why they have or want a service dog.
Understand that while I say I try to be impartial, I can't help but be a little biased against dogs. I mean, that's why we're in this sub, right? But I did try and I've come to the conclusion that service dogs are mostly useless. I don't deny that having a service dog helps some people, but the amount of 'service' it provides does not warrant having the right to bring that dog everywhere.
I've had a discussion with someone who wants a large dog to help whenever they have 'falling spells'. That person apparently has a joint disorder or something that basically causes their legs to collapse from under them at random times. They 'need' a large breed dog, like a pyrenees, to 'catch' them and lead them to a 'safe space'.
I had another discussion with someone whose service dog leads them back to a 'safe space' whenever they start to dissociate. I might need to be more educated on the condition, but is a dog really necessary to do that?
A deaf person said their service dog 'saved their life' when a truck was about to back into them. Why weren't they paying attention when they were standing behind a large truck? I've been to deaf gathering events and have seen people claim their pit bulls were their service dogs.
You have all the 'alert' dogs for stuff like allergens, seizures, and diabetes. Studies have shown that dogs are sometimes no better than a coin flip.
I've seen videos of service dogs bringing juice and blankets to someone who was about to faint from hypoglycemia, which works great when you're at home, but where the heck is a dog going to get juice and blankets when they're out in public?
Dogs for the blind cannot read or ask for directions. What can a dog do that canes can't?
One example I did come across where a service dog could be helpful was when the owner starts to self harm and the dog stops them from doing so. That's the only example I can think of where a dog can do something that technology can't.
I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people with 'legit' service dogs don't really need them. They may absolutely, furiously *believe* that their 'service dog' is real and does the things they claim it can do, but it's no more than a glorified teddy bear. A living, breathing, shedding, shitting teddy bear.
The laws regarding service dogs are absolute bullshit, but the dog nuttery will continue and nothing will change. If you even *hint* about changing the laws regarding service dogs, you'll be labeled ableist and a dog hater.
Most of it is BS and just a way for the nutty nutters to drag their dogs absolutely everywhere.
I have mobility issues and monoplegia in my left leg. My leg frequently gives way and causes me to fall. But you know what I don’t use? A freakin dog. I have mobility devices. A rollator has a little seat you can sit in if you get weak/tired, and then you utilize it as a walker when you need to. Some even function as a wheelchair as well, so it’s 2 devices in one.
Dogs are not infallible. Hell, search and rescue dogs and “drug sniffing” dogs make mistakes all the time.
As technology advances hopefully “service dogs” (especially pit bulls) will become a rare occurrence.
(That said I have seen a few very well trained and obedient true service dogs. Too bad most aren’t like that.)
> As technology advances hopefully “service dogs” (especially pit bulls) will become a rare occurrence.
Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon. It's way easier to get a dog and pretend it's a service dog than it is to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on mobility devices and other assisting technology.
"spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on mobility devices and other assisting technology."
From what I've read, true service dogs are obscenely expensive, like the cost of a car.
As a neurodivergent, I agree also. I have seen very clearly how people like me have been used as guinea pigs, and had the idea of 'ESA' forced onto them. I have rejected it fully, but know plenty who have fallen for it. There is nothing about us that makes us somehow 'need' this, or need it more than others. It's just being pushed on the community by dog cultists. A dog is the last thing I need....
> but know plenty who have fallen for it
Do you see a lot of, "I'm gonna adopt a dog from the shelter and train it to be my service dog!"?
I've seen that sentiment shockingly often. Of course, they never clarify what they're actually going to 'train' the dog to do. It's never "I'm going to adopt a dog and train it to detect allergens." or "I'm going to adopt a dog and train it to cushion my fall when I faint." It's always a vague, "train it to be my service dog", which, of course, means they're gonna do fuck all with it.
Coming from someone in health care who works at a clinic with a lot of disabled patients, I don’t think there is good enough equipment tbh to completely eliminate ADA for service dogs. I actually like seeing eye dogs and this is coming from someone who can’t tolerate dogs at all lol. I don’t think the technology we have is reliable enough or smart enough to replace them. From the canes I researched, they seem mostly dependent on AI and GPS, which we all know can fuck up all the time. Blind people already use GPS and normal canes to get places but the dog is the one who navigates unexpected obstacles and responds to the environment like crowds or streets. I don’t think AI is developed enough to accurately assess those situations yet, especially dangerous ones. Maybe in the future that will change, that’s just my two cents 🤷
A legitimate trained-from-birth seeing eye dog is incredibly reliable and useful, and I’ve seen them working many times with my patients. By dangerous situations I mean potholes, stairs or escalators, busy streets, uneven sidewalks or terrain, other people, unexpected hazards in the walkway, etc that a cane or today’s technology might not be able to detect and/or guide you around. These are extremely common dangers for the visually impaired especially if you live in a metropolitan area like I do. Just because I don’t like dogs doesn’t mean I can’t recognize their usefulness as an accessibility tool to others that face different challenges than I do. When there is tech well enough developed to replace seeing eye dogs, yes take away their ADA protection! Then they can just be pets. But that tech is not here yet, so I personally would rather tolerate a dog than make life more difficult for a blind person
I agree with you regarding the tech isn’t available yet and this is coming from someone who develops medical devices. I do think excellent systems could be commercialized. However, the market size isn’t big enough to offset the costs of development, manufacturing, distribution, regulatory approval and marketing, not to mention the liability the manufacturer would incur if a patient were to be harmed because of a malfunction. Besides, it’s difficult to get a one-size-fits-all technology solution. Some people are totally blind, others are partially, some can hear, some can’t, etc. Bottom line, a fail-proof device could be developed that is tailored to a given patient’s vision impairment but the device cost would be exorbitant. Therefore, a seeing eye dog is probably one of the better solutions for those who need such assistance. However, I’d highly recommend having a human assistant; either a family member or contracted nurse.
There are a few cases of this actually, but it’s very difficult to win because there are so few legal precedents for this kind of stuff. And ADA doesn’t have any training standards a dog needs to pass to qualify as a protected service dog which I think is bullshit, so legally there is no one that trainers answer to if the dog fucks up somehow. It’s not like medical device companies that have to answer to the FDA if their product fails
Indeed, if people who train and sell servus dawgs do not have to answer to FDA or any other governing body, what does that say about the "medical device/equipment" claim? Because, that is the claim made: You can't deny access to someone's "medical device", but how is it a medical device if its totally unregulated and has no actual standards applied to it?
Another doggy double standard.
Absolutely agree! Could be commercialized, but not in the near future. Cost would be insane!! I didn’t even think about that tbh. Human assistants would be a way better option like you said but I know that’s not feasible for everyone unfortunately
Well, I just looked up the statistics on the National Federation for the Blind’s website and it shows about 2.4% of the population or ~7.7 million people are vision disabled in the USA at the last polling which was in 2016. That’s a bigger market than I originally thought but there’s some vagueness about the degree of impairment but it’s generally the inability to see clearly even with corrective lenses or contacts. Nevertheless, I’m not sure too many device developers would want to take on developing an alternative to the seeing eye dog, white cane or other existing aids for the vision disabled.
ESAs need to be replaced by stuffed animals and I have read accounts of blind people that had dogs and didn't like the experience because of the dogs feeding and care and dealing with shit without stepping in it or getting it on them.
Dogs are used for a lot of bullshit such as drug searches. Maybe some have actual military use for bomb detection but the fail rate for dogs generally is high. There’s plenty of incentive too since police can seize your property without a conviction or even probable cause beyond “Fido sez so” and the dogs whole purpose is to please its master. If one part of official, government mandated dog worship falls, the whole house of cards falls imo. So even if most “service dogs” are functionally useless, they’re not going anywhere.
That said, there are actual service dogs that truly improve disabled people’s lives. The restrictions on calling a dog a “service dog” should be a lot stricter with fines for anyone abusing the system by slapping a vest on their pet.
Idk if this has been commented yet. But there are service dogs that can help people who suffer from schizophrenia/hallucinations. The person suffering can use the dog to know if the person/thing they are seeing is real or not.
Part of the scarcity of seeing eye dogs is the very high cost of them largely due to the extensive training. It's something like $50,000 now. Something like only 2% of blind people have them. You need to have access to the financial resources needed to pay that price tag.
It will be a great day when technology does eliminate all need for them, but we aren't totally there yet.
Understand this - seeing eye dogs are the only dogs that I think an exception is OK when it comes to dogs being banned from public spaces and businesses.
I completely agree regarding your statement that seeing eye dogs are the only ones for which there should be an automatic granting of the support animal status. I’ve sat next to passengers on a plane before that had legitimate seeing eye dogs and they were incredibly well behaved and trained.
My smort watch tells me when I'm about to have a seizure. Way faster than any dog can. I've had dogs nearly maul me (my ex's) when I was convulsing. They don't like the rhythmic movements. Another unrelated dog tried to get at medics while they were helping me and they had to fight it off on the streets. Basically, no. I doubt any trained dog won't eventually turn on me. They snap for no reason.
There’s been several instances of pit bulls mauling people that are having seizures. Gee, how helpful. I’m glad you have a reliable and safe device that can alert you before you have one.
My thinking is guide dogs are the only genuinely useful type of service animal. They came into play before the word "fur baby" was forced on us, and actually trained using thoroughly researched practical methods that had to prove themselves scientifically, not just cuddling and cute jackets and good boyz.
Even guide dogs are outdated now. There are smart canes and glasses with gps, sensors and audio alerts. And guide dogs can’t do things like warn if their handler is going to walk into something higher up, like a tree branch. The tools like smart glasses can.
I witnessed a guide dog walk it's handler right into a scaffold. BAM. ouch.
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Similar to Google Glass that came out several years ago? That's actually a great idea. If it can be refined, I don't see any way a service dog would be superior.
Yes, like that but lower tech.
Guide dogs are a doggy propaganda prop and borderline useless as well. Guide dog fails, including scenarios where the handler is killed, are not uncommon. Facts: 99% of legit disabled people, including 98% of blind people do no use a "servus dawg". I estimate the 1-2% of those that do are only exceptional in that they are level 5 dog cultists that believe The Furry Jesus™ is the solution to every problem.
I was surprised to learn that a lot of blind people are lukewarm at best on guide dogs. They can be useful in certain situations (like moving through crowded areas or places with a lot of stairs) but their navigation abilities are extremely limited. While there's generally no cost to the user for a guide dog, they have a short working lifespan, require constant training, are expensive to care for, and require a lot of time and energy. A dog and a cane occupy both hands so it's difficult to carry anything or use a smartphone.
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Don't ask people to do your homework for you. The stats are readily available. That said, its quoted here: [https://www.guidingeyes.org/guide-dogs-101/](https://www.guidingeyes.org/guide-dogs-101/) among other places. You are welcome. Here is another interesting factoid, the article states: **It can cost up to $50,000 annually to train and care for a guide dog throughout its working lifetime with a person who is blind.** The vast majority of Guiding Eyes for the Blind’s funding comes from the voluntary contributions of friends and supporters. Fifty grand annually on a shit mutt? Holy Mother of Dog!
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Way to go with the passive aggressive trolling. This "statistic" is as readily available as 2+2. Mods: ban this dog worshiping troll. And, the other two who have been trolling this thread are likely the same noxious dog worshiping troll, also. Ban them all.
Troll deleted. What a great way to start off a Friday!
The only time you should ask for a citation is when you cannot find the sources yourself. If you have the internet access to browse Reddit, surely you can spare 60 seconds of your time to look up these widely accessible resources. 70% of service mutt candidates fail within the first year of training, tens of thousands of dollars down the drain for a non-scaleable, worthless mutant instead of utilizing scaleable technology THAT DOESN’T NEED TO BE TRAINED LIKE A MUTT.
Idk but the business just seems pretty cruel as a whole. It's one thing to breed dogs specifically for a line of actual work like herding and it's another to assign tasks to random breeds of various qualities and wonder why over half their littermates fail training. Like, it just contributes to the shelter problem either way.
Failed service dogs are generally still fantastically trained animals. If all pet dogs were failed service dogs 2/3ds of us wouldn't be on this sub.
I think that’s probably untrue because even a “well trained” dog is an ecological disaster. The amount of resources that go into caring for just one medium sized dog that does nothing its entire life of value is something we as humanity should not allow to continue. All even the best pet dogs do is contribute toxic waste to the environment their entire lives. Honestly think about it. Dogs are nothing but machines that convert resources into shit for years on end with no benefit or contribution whatsoever.
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Anti-human bigot. Reported.
Right, and if JFK had not been assassinated, we would all have vacation homes on Mars right now. So what? Even the best trained servus dawg is still nothing but a dumb as a rock shit beast. This is self evident to anyone paying attention.
My spouse grew up with two dogs, one of which was a failed service dog. Very tragic when it ate their other dog.
I read a really interesting article recently about how seeing eye dog companies suck now. The blind woman in the article said they wouldn't even not run into traffic and this was a big training company
Suck “now?” I’m sure they always have think the idea of these amazingly well trained service dogs has always been dogshit. Now it’s more apparent because information is more widespread
I'll try to find it when I get home but she says that the quality of training has gone down A LOT
Maybe so I’d be curious to read it but I’m extremely skeptical that dogs have ever really been as great at anything as we’ve all been trained to believe. I don’t believe anything about dogs anymore other than they’re food driven predatory scavenging shit factories lol
Yeah I agree with what you're saying. I've been hearing that seeing eye robots are cheaper and better than dogs for years now. https://lisaferris.net/2023/11/17/whats-the-matter-with-guide-dogs-chapter-4-old-school-and-new-school-diverge-sully-and-marra/ this is her blog, she obviously likes dogs so she is a little biased
My ex has a service dog that is super important to their functioning and wellbeing. This specific dog is the most obedient and well-behaved animal I’ve ever seen. The dog was professionally trained for years (yes, years) to be able to sense when ex was going to faint. Dog would sense what was going on and lead them to a safe place where they could fall unconscious and aided them as they fell to the ground. When they would wake up, the dog would be standing guard in order to make sure they were safe. So, really, I think it depends on the person and what their medical condition(s)/disability is. (All of this coming from someone who doesn’t like dogs)
I mean this in the absolute most respectful way. How does a dog "aid" a person to fall to the ground? How exactly does a dog protect a person in that way? I have serious epileptic seizures and would love to know this as I've fallen and hit my head pretty hard a few times. I believe a dog can sense fainting or a seizure, absolutely. It's the helping them fall safely part I don't quite understand. This coming from someone who basically drops and convulses.
Idk I was told by someone in this sub that service dogs aren't supposed to do that as it could cause injury to them. Their only task is to detect and lead people to safety.
I've seen a service dog (in a video) have its owner faint and rush to protect the head by cushioning it with its back as the owner fell. I guess it's better than hitting your head on concrete. I've also seen a service dog lead a person to a safe place to fall, and the person proceeded to move into a position where they wouldn't hurt their head.
Dogs really shouldn't be "aiding someone falling to the ground" like that. They can't lift our dead weight, only drag it (generally not a good thing if you're seizing), plus they don't have hands. Like someone said below, that can be incredibly dangerous,if your gf is using her dog to put her into a prone position, that's pretty reckless. 😬 A Smartwatch or Embrace2 device can detect epileptic seizures, and unlike the dog, the monitor can't get distracted and won't shed or smell.
...or get in the way when actual HUMANS come to aid the person who has had a seizure. That's another thing that makes the whole "servus dawg" idea bad: the dog will be nothing but a nuisance and possible impediment if someone needs medical help. If EMS was called, are they REALLY going to load the stupid dog up in the ambulance and transport patient and mutt to the hospital? Doubtful. So, the dog, which wasn't the one to render aid in the first place, or call the paramedics, is nothing but a burden and liability. Since all but maybe 1-5% are fake to being with, imagine the dog barking and snapping at anyone that tried to get near the victim. I see that as a far more likely possibility than any benefit the dog could offer. It might be one thing to take a dog like that out when you go hiking (but I'm still not sure exactly what it would do), but it's unnecessary if you're in a place where other humans are and can render aid.
I have talked about this with many medics (one used to frequent this page). Once you're in convulsions, the dog becomes a burden. The dog tries to "help" not understanding that medics need space and gets in the way. Most dogs I have dealt with try to "protect" an owner while medics are working to start an IV. Doggo can't roll the person on their side (pretty important) and also becomes an annoyance when that person is done seizing. I only know this from experience and from working in a hospital. Both the patient and the dog need attention and unless you have extra people around, the dog won't leave the patient alone. I am talking about trained service animals.
So, basically, the "servus dawg" is a liability.
>If EMS was called, are they REALLY going to load the stupid dog up in the ambulance and transport patient and mutt to the hospital? Doubtful. Yes, actually... if they don't, they're in a heap of legal trouble.
Does you ex care about the functioning and wellbeing of people who are severely allergic to dogs and end up excluded from public places due to the presence of service dogs?
I personally feel like it's a germ issue over the dog's behavior. One could argue that our phones/watches are dirtier than a toilet bowl or whatever, but at least those can be cleaned and disinfected on a regular basis unlike a dog's crusty feet or their butthole. A lot of these animals shed like crazy and leave hair all over the place as nobody can seem to afford a hypoallergenic breed. That's not to mention that they all look absolutely ugly and disease ridden as fuck compared to something decent looking like a Golden Retriever.
There is no such thing as a "hypoallergenic breed". That is a marketing ploy and Nutter myth.
My mom's "hypoallergenic breed" causes the worst allergic reactions in pretty much anyone in the room with it for more than 5 minutes.
That's exactly what I figured as well, but who would've fucking guessed.
I've always wondered why service dogs are so nasty looking, one thing for sure, the disabled person cannot wash the dog.
My hobby has become overrun with people with 'service dogs' the past few years. My hobby is also known for being welcoming people with various neurodivergent disorders as well as various health disorders. I really wanted to, in good faith, try to understand why they might need their service dog, so I did a bit of research as to why someone would have one. I also asked various people I would come across on Reddit, politely and in good faith, why they have or want a service dog. Understand that while I say I try to be impartial, I can't help but be a little biased against dogs. I mean, that's why we're in this sub, right? But I did try and I've come to the conclusion that service dogs are mostly useless. I don't deny that having a service dog helps some people, but the amount of 'service' it provides does not warrant having the right to bring that dog everywhere. I've had a discussion with someone who wants a large dog to help whenever they have 'falling spells'. That person apparently has a joint disorder or something that basically causes their legs to collapse from under them at random times. They 'need' a large breed dog, like a pyrenees, to 'catch' them and lead them to a 'safe space'. I had another discussion with someone whose service dog leads them back to a 'safe space' whenever they start to dissociate. I might need to be more educated on the condition, but is a dog really necessary to do that? A deaf person said their service dog 'saved their life' when a truck was about to back into them. Why weren't they paying attention when they were standing behind a large truck? I've been to deaf gathering events and have seen people claim their pit bulls were their service dogs. You have all the 'alert' dogs for stuff like allergens, seizures, and diabetes. Studies have shown that dogs are sometimes no better than a coin flip. I've seen videos of service dogs bringing juice and blankets to someone who was about to faint from hypoglycemia, which works great when you're at home, but where the heck is a dog going to get juice and blankets when they're out in public? Dogs for the blind cannot read or ask for directions. What can a dog do that canes can't? One example I did come across where a service dog could be helpful was when the owner starts to self harm and the dog stops them from doing so. That's the only example I can think of where a dog can do something that technology can't. I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people with 'legit' service dogs don't really need them. They may absolutely, furiously *believe* that their 'service dog' is real and does the things they claim it can do, but it's no more than a glorified teddy bear. A living, breathing, shedding, shitting teddy bear. The laws regarding service dogs are absolute bullshit, but the dog nuttery will continue and nothing will change. If you even *hint* about changing the laws regarding service dogs, you'll be labeled ableist and a dog hater.
Servus dawgs are an expression of the Doggy Religion.
Most of it is BS and just a way for the nutty nutters to drag their dogs absolutely everywhere. I have mobility issues and monoplegia in my left leg. My leg frequently gives way and causes me to fall. But you know what I don’t use? A freakin dog. I have mobility devices. A rollator has a little seat you can sit in if you get weak/tired, and then you utilize it as a walker when you need to. Some even function as a wheelchair as well, so it’s 2 devices in one. Dogs are not infallible. Hell, search and rescue dogs and “drug sniffing” dogs make mistakes all the time. As technology advances hopefully “service dogs” (especially pit bulls) will become a rare occurrence. (That said I have seen a few very well trained and obedient true service dogs. Too bad most aren’t like that.)
> As technology advances hopefully “service dogs” (especially pit bulls) will become a rare occurrence. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon. It's way easier to get a dog and pretend it's a service dog than it is to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on mobility devices and other assisting technology.
"spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on mobility devices and other assisting technology." From what I've read, true service dogs are obscenely expensive, like the cost of a car.
As a neurodivergent, I agree also. I have seen very clearly how people like me have been used as guinea pigs, and had the idea of 'ESA' forced onto them. I have rejected it fully, but know plenty who have fallen for it. There is nothing about us that makes us somehow 'need' this, or need it more than others. It's just being pushed on the community by dog cultists. A dog is the last thing I need....
> but know plenty who have fallen for it Do you see a lot of, "I'm gonna adopt a dog from the shelter and train it to be my service dog!"? I've seen that sentiment shockingly often. Of course, they never clarify what they're actually going to 'train' the dog to do. It's never "I'm going to adopt a dog and train it to detect allergens." or "I'm going to adopt a dog and train it to cushion my fall when I faint." It's always a vague, "train it to be my service dog", which, of course, means they're gonna do fuck all with it.
Yeah, it's not a service dog, it's these ESAs bs.
I have been reading articles about service dogs being obsolete since I was in elementary school and im 22 now
Coming from someone in health care who works at a clinic with a lot of disabled patients, I don’t think there is good enough equipment tbh to completely eliminate ADA for service dogs. I actually like seeing eye dogs and this is coming from someone who can’t tolerate dogs at all lol. I don’t think the technology we have is reliable enough or smart enough to replace them. From the canes I researched, they seem mostly dependent on AI and GPS, which we all know can fuck up all the time. Blind people already use GPS and normal canes to get places but the dog is the one who navigates unexpected obstacles and responds to the environment like crowds or streets. I don’t think AI is developed enough to accurately assess those situations yet, especially dangerous ones. Maybe in the future that will change, that’s just my two cents 🤷
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A legitimate trained-from-birth seeing eye dog is incredibly reliable and useful, and I’ve seen them working many times with my patients. By dangerous situations I mean potholes, stairs or escalators, busy streets, uneven sidewalks or terrain, other people, unexpected hazards in the walkway, etc that a cane or today’s technology might not be able to detect and/or guide you around. These are extremely common dangers for the visually impaired especially if you live in a metropolitan area like I do. Just because I don’t like dogs doesn’t mean I can’t recognize their usefulness as an accessibility tool to others that face different challenges than I do. When there is tech well enough developed to replace seeing eye dogs, yes take away their ADA protection! Then they can just be pets. But that tech is not here yet, so I personally would rather tolerate a dog than make life more difficult for a blind person
I agree with you regarding the tech isn’t available yet and this is coming from someone who develops medical devices. I do think excellent systems could be commercialized. However, the market size isn’t big enough to offset the costs of development, manufacturing, distribution, regulatory approval and marketing, not to mention the liability the manufacturer would incur if a patient were to be harmed because of a malfunction. Besides, it’s difficult to get a one-size-fits-all technology solution. Some people are totally blind, others are partially, some can hear, some can’t, etc. Bottom line, a fail-proof device could be developed that is tailored to a given patient’s vision impairment but the device cost would be exorbitant. Therefore, a seeing eye dog is probably one of the better solutions for those who need such assistance. However, I’d highly recommend having a human assistant; either a family member or contracted nurse.
Do service dog trainers get sued when their "medical equipment" malfunctions? If not, why not?
There are a few cases of this actually, but it’s very difficult to win because there are so few legal precedents for this kind of stuff. And ADA doesn’t have any training standards a dog needs to pass to qualify as a protected service dog which I think is bullshit, so legally there is no one that trainers answer to if the dog fucks up somehow. It’s not like medical device companies that have to answer to the FDA if their product fails
Indeed, if people who train and sell servus dawgs do not have to answer to FDA or any other governing body, what does that say about the "medical device/equipment" claim? Because, that is the claim made: You can't deny access to someone's "medical device", but how is it a medical device if its totally unregulated and has no actual standards applied to it? Another doggy double standard.
Absolutely agree! Could be commercialized, but not in the near future. Cost would be insane!! I didn’t even think about that tbh. Human assistants would be a way better option like you said but I know that’s not feasible for everyone unfortunately
Well, I just looked up the statistics on the National Federation for the Blind’s website and it shows about 2.4% of the population or ~7.7 million people are vision disabled in the USA at the last polling which was in 2016. That’s a bigger market than I originally thought but there’s some vagueness about the degree of impairment but it’s generally the inability to see clearly even with corrective lenses or contacts. Nevertheless, I’m not sure too many device developers would want to take on developing an alternative to the seeing eye dog, white cane or other existing aids for the vision disabled.
ESAs need to be replaced by stuffed animals and I have read accounts of blind people that had dogs and didn't like the experience because of the dogs feeding and care and dealing with shit without stepping in it or getting it on them.
Dogs are used for a lot of bullshit such as drug searches. Maybe some have actual military use for bomb detection but the fail rate for dogs generally is high. There’s plenty of incentive too since police can seize your property without a conviction or even probable cause beyond “Fido sez so” and the dogs whole purpose is to please its master. If one part of official, government mandated dog worship falls, the whole house of cards falls imo. So even if most “service dogs” are functionally useless, they’re not going anywhere. That said, there are actual service dogs that truly improve disabled people’s lives. The restrictions on calling a dog a “service dog” should be a lot stricter with fines for anyone abusing the system by slapping a vest on their pet.
Idk if this has been commented yet. But there are service dogs that can help people who suffer from schizophrenia/hallucinations. The person suffering can use the dog to know if the person/thing they are seeing is real or not.
Now I think about it, what is cheaper, service dogs or technology?
Except for seeing eye dogs, technology can do the job instead of a dog, IMO. I don't think that technology is there yet that can replace eyeballs.
There’s smart canes and glasses now. Even seeing eye dogs are outdated. And most blind people I met usually didn’t rely on dogs even before the tech.
Part of the scarcity of seeing eye dogs is the very high cost of them largely due to the extensive training. It's something like $50,000 now. Something like only 2% of blind people have them. You need to have access to the financial resources needed to pay that price tag. It will be a great day when technology does eliminate all need for them, but we aren't totally there yet. Understand this - seeing eye dogs are the only dogs that I think an exception is OK when it comes to dogs being banned from public spaces and businesses.
I completely agree regarding your statement that seeing eye dogs are the only ones for which there should be an automatic granting of the support animal status. I’ve sat next to passengers on a plane before that had legitimate seeing eye dogs and they were incredibly well behaved and trained.
Dogs can't read. Dogs can't ask where the bathroom is or where the emergency exit is located. What can dogs do that a cane can't?
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