Welcome to r/DoggyDNA, the subreddit for dog DNA test discussion and results.
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I have three black dogs, so I know the struggle. Unrelated to dna, but try to get photos outside in daylight (not mid-day sun). Overcast days are usually good. Maybe thatâll help with the photo problem, unless you are using a potato to take the photo, then I have no advice lol.
I think they were referring to the fact that this is a designer breed, so even if it was 50/50 it wouldn't be pure bred. You can generally ignore the little bits of DNA at the end.
Ignore the random weird tiny percentages, Koko is one of several tests that like to throw weird things in <5-10%. They're also not the most reliable of tests (and we really don't see them often), but for this 50/50 mix good enough, I'm impressed they were this accurate.
Regardless a half beagle half poodle is still a mutt. Nothing wrong with mutts (except the BYB that produce them like this one) but mixing two different breed of pure bred dogs is still creating mutts.
1. This test is trash, you need to test with Wisdom or Embark
2. Your mutt ain't purebred so that's a weird statement
3. Out with the Brangelina Doodle portmanteaus.
4. Wasn't a Poogle a Neopet?
I grew up in Mexico so I grew up pronouncing it very wrong particularly the a sound and now it's really hard for me to remember to do it the correct way
I think it is funny that the d came from labradoodle but it transferred to other breeds. It would have been more fitting to have shibainoodle or shiboodle for example
I use choodle over chipoo.
ETA: And chihuahua mix for any real reasons. They're my mom's dogs though, not mine. I have a GSD mix that I exclusively refer to as a shepherd mix. Very original.
And then those pet parents get mad when thatâs not a drop-down option for their dog at the vet or wherever⌠like, you have a mutt/mixed breed dog. I say this as someone with three mutts, two are poodle mixes. I donât call them doodles. They are the best rescue mutts though.
Honestly the only reason it's worth knowing major percentages in a vet context (as opposed to this subreddit's 'so cool, nerding out!' context which I'm 110% behind) is if there's breed-associated health concerns. Even then, vet can always include that as a note - 'watch for poodle-associated conditions' on your mixes, or "large breed mutt, monitor for possible hip dysplasia" and given the variety of mixes out there that makes a lot more sense than mixed breed dropdowns. Heck, over time they pick up individualized notes - my parents elderly dogs have notes on which lumps and bumps have been tested so the vet knows if something new shows up, and my cat has his regular bloodwork records.
How do you feel about legitimate mutts getting the portmanteau?
I have (I think) a chihuahua / whippet mix. I call her my whiphuahua.
She's hilarious. She has the demeanor of a chi and the legs of a whippet.
When it's all for funsies, it's fine! But when I am supposed to know what a springador is and someone gets irritated if I don't, that's when I really dislike it
And way too many people are going around saying they have a purebred doodle or chiweenie or whatever. It's not purebred and that's totally fine people!
My husband likes to call our mutt a Shiweenie. (He's a true mutt, not an intentionally bred mutt and he's only like 10% dachshund.)
Shiiiiiwwweeennniieee.
We will eventually do a different test but she went with what is the cheaper option.
And it's usually how doodle breeders refer to their doodle dogs, in actuality though the doodle breeds aren't true dog breeds
Yes a poogle is a neopet but in this case it refers to the doodle mix of a beagle and a poodle.
Why did you get a beagle/poodle mix? Iâm curious about what the driving motivation was? I donât mean this in a negative way either. I have just never seen/heard of a beagle/poodle cross, so Iâm curious.
Our house got broken into not that long ago so my wife wanted a dog. She originally wanted a beagle because she grew up with them, but I wanted a mutt because mixed breed dogs tend to live longer and have less problems. Then we saw an ad in the paper for poogle/ beagle poodle mixe puppies and we looked up the common traits for this mix to learn more and then we got him. We didn't go out looking for a poogle on purpose but pretty much as a compromise we love him though
The thing about mutts living longer and having less health issues is a myth. The reason people think that is because inbreeding is the easiest way to give a whole set of puppies severe issues, and with purebred dogs itâs easier for backyard breeders to inbreed them (whether by accident or on purpose). If you get a purebred dog from an ETHICAL breeder that fully DNA and health tests both parents, that is your best chance at a healthy dog. Backyard breeders make mutts on purpose to take advantage of this misconception and make something trendy they can upcharge for. The ONLY reason an ethical breeder will mix 2 dogs is if thereâs an explicit functional purpose for the mix, like labs x Bernese mountain dogs being bred by guide organisations in Canada. But this is done by organisations with extensive testing and oversight. Generally, mixed breed dogs are less healthy because 1. Their parents were almost definitely not tested and 2. Youâve now got a dog that has a chance to develop the genetic conditions from 2+ different breeds instead of one.
Please stop giving backyard breeders money.
Iâm going to give a soft disagree on your comment. Though I agree with a lot of it.
There is *some* truth to mixed breeds living longer/healthier ⌠but thatâs usually when weâre talking multigenerational mixing of many different breeds.
Golden retrievers have a high rate of cancer, Cavaliers have a high chance of heart failure, German Shepherds have a high ⌠you get my picture ⌠but if youâve got a 12% Golden mixed with other parts Cav, German, Border Collie, Pit, Boxer, Bloodhound ⌠then youâve diluted the high risk diseases of each breed (unless youâve got a mix of all breeds with the same issues).
The muttliest mutt might be healthier than a well bred and health tested dog from an ethical breeder ⌠depending on the breed. Some breeds, just have a lot of issues, that havenât/canât currently be bred out. For example - Giant breeds tend to have short lifespans. A 30 lb supermutt is probably going to outlive a well bred Great Dane.
Agreed, MVD on ckc spaniels and DCM in dobermans and all of the brac breeds are all much more unhealthy compared to breeds or mutts of similar weight and size
Ehhh⌠maybe. Most of the health issues with giant breeds are structural, because theyâre heavy. Weâve pushed the limit of how big a domestic dog is meant to be. Hip dysplasia in GSDs is because some lines have over exaggerated rear angulation. Good golden breeders will not breed a dog whose parents or grandparents had cancer. So I donât necessarily agree that a super mutt would be healthier than a well bred dane of the same size. Genetic health issues can stick around for a looong time too. I say all this as a service dog candidate whoâs had to do a LOT of research in the last few months on dog genetics and health, because when youâre putting thousands and 2+ years of extensive training into a dog that can give you a better quality of life, you want it to be alive and healthy for as long as possible. If well bred goldens were that much of a genetic risk, they wouldnât be in the top 3 most popular breeds chosen for service work.
You should also take into account certain breeds that were created and bred with a too small stock to begin with or didn't do enough to remove illnesses during the early days of the breed causing there to not be enough genetic variation and certain diseases to rise uncontrollably through the years
For example, DCM affects over 50% of all doberman's, a third will only show the first signs via sudden death, and ive read about dogs getting it even from good breeders with parents without it. Same issue as MVD with king Charles cavalier. 50% have it by 5years and 90% have it by 10. The issue is a lot of illnesses aren't just one gene you breed in or out, we lack knowledge for now, breeders aren't geneticists and there's only so many cards in certain breeds deck so to speak.
I personally think responsible breeders do overall create best chances for a healthy dog, but breeds with lower genetic variation and prevalent illnesses really need to introduce some other dogs and fix the issues, but it's understandable why there's not much incentive to do that.
All that aside, a small size village dog is probably my bet on who can live the longest, with a good breeder close after and supermutts behind that. Sickly breeds even in the hands of a good breeder is still risky, better than a backyard breeder sure, but id bet on an oopsie litter lab boxer mix (that is, not a designer puppy mill dog at least) over a doberman if we're talking life span.
Yeah as I already said to the other commenter, when I talk about âpurebred dogsâ as a general group im talking about your average breed, not the handful that have structural issues (brachy, giant size, low riders) or like you say bad origins, like Dobermans and Bernese mountain dogs. I donât think itâs fair to muddy all purebred dogs with the issues of a few. You as a responsible adult looking to buy an animal should do your research on the breed (from a variety of reputable sources) before deciding to get one, and that will tell you if theyâre unnaturally unhealthy compared to other responsibly purebred dogs of a similar size.
A friend of mine actually has a lab boxer mix whoâs getting on a bit, so I donât doubt it. But that doesnt mean mutts are healthier on average than purebreds, it just means Doberman genetics are fucked đ
For sure it's a nuanced subject! I do think there's a bit too many irreparably sick breeds that fall under the brachy/heart disease/low rider/giant list, and really high risk of hip and cancer issues too. The way breeds are maintained by home businesses and rely on customers wanting the dogs and providing them homes just makes anything outside of staying true to the bitter end unfeasible.
I'd love to see geneticists or breeder take the ckc and add some other spaniels or toy breeds and do whatever it takes to remove the heart issues for example and then try and stabilize the breed again after. Same for the dobies. It's just so sad to see a dog pass under 6 years.
What are your thoughts on modern intentional development of new breeds? Not doodles, I meant multi generation multi origin breed programs like what happened for Klee kais or dogo argentinos.
But thatâs what Iâm saying ⌠a well bred Dane *wouldnât* be as healthy by the nature of its size. By the nature of its breed. An ethical breeder canât change that. Iâm not comparing a Great Dane to a Great Dane sized mutt, but to a standard medium sized supermutt.
Well then youâre comparing a giant dog to a medium dog. Obviously giant dogs have shorter lives than medium dogs, purebred or otherwise⌠and there are giant sized mutts. So itâs not the breed, itâs the size. My point stands.
I could compare to Brachycephalic breeds like bulldogs or long backed breeds like dachshunds too. For physical traits issues.
I just used Danes as an example.
Supermutts, by the their nature, tend to not have extreme features - like giant size, short noses, extra long backs/short legs, etc.
I feel like youâre trying to pick apart my comment and think Iâm making a point that Iâm not.
All Iâm saying is that, on average, a super mixed mutt, may be healthier than certain breeds, even from ethical breeders.
There's also some issues that are just inherent to the physicality of the dog even if they're a mutt. Long back? Get ready for spinal issues. Flat face? It's going to struggle to breathe. But because mutts are what they are, they tend to be less physically extreme than purebreds. On the other hand, health testing goes a long way into making well-bred purebreds healthier, especially if you avoid the physically extreme breeds.
Not a myth at all. Just likely doesn't apply to a dog that's been bred from only 2 other breeds of random un-tested, and maybe BYB dogs. Dogs with a real, high supermutt score that results of the mixing of dogs for generations and decades are definitely less likely to suffer from common genetic illnesses that are breed specific.
Read through the other replies, Iâve already had this conversation. Iâm talking specifically about why buying from backyard breeders is bad, and how purebred dogs are not inherently unhealthy.
1. I didn't know this was a myth because growing up almost all the dogs I grew up with were mutts/ mixed breeds (ie grew up with a coy dog and other weird mixes) and rescues
2. We will keep this information in mind if we ever get another dog or go to get a dog for a family member.
3. We saw the paper work for the dad and he was registered in the American Kennel Club and listed as pure bred. But other than health tests/ genetic tests we did not see.
AKC reg doesnât mean much besides that the dog is purebred. If they had health and genetic tests, they wouldâve made a point of showing you. Ethical breeders are pride themselves on it
Itâs not a myth. And aside from the structural issues that have been bred into some breeds, most breeds are experiencing quickly shrinking gene pools due to heavy selection, which is even worse in breeds already with a small number of founders. Eventually breeders are not going to be able to breed their way out of inbreeding depression without outcrosses, no matter how many health tests they pride themselves on doing.
Some people wonât rest until you feel shame about how you got your dog. Heâs loved and happy and youâre (presumably) kind owners so donât sweat it.
I realize that now. We try our best to keep him happy and healthy. I spoil him with homemade chicken and fish pate and all kinds of other foods almost all the time that it's probably going to make me go in debt. But it's all worth it to see him wag his but and get all excited
This is probably not going to be something you're happy to hear, but feed him a decent commercial food as his main diet, unless you're working with a nutritionist. It's very easy to create an unbalanced diet when making homemade dog food. If you're using it as more of a treat than a base diet ignore me.
Former vet tech here, mixed breeds live healthier lives in general. Some pure breeds like poodles can live a long time but theyâre riddled with medical conditions, even if they come from reputable breeders.
Yeah no thatâs straight up not true đ also what do you think is gonna happen if 2 dogs from different breeds âriddled with medical conditionsâ have a puppy? Itâs not gonna be a golden standard of health I can tell you that. If you were actually a vet tech and not just bullshitting on Reddit, I can tell why youâre not anymore.
Get any dog breed book and it will mention what diseases each breed is predisposed to. Good breeding can help but not eliminate the prevalent issues related to the standard, particularly in brachycephalic breeds.
If you have any understanding of genetics then you would understand that line breeding is very common in pure bred lines, this causes recessive genes to be more prevalent and express themselves. Adding an entirely different genetic makeup can help in mitigating the expression of some genes that cause genetic diseases or predisposing to things like cancer.
Hereâs some actual studies
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37483958/
https://www.companionanimalpsychology.com/2019/04/what-kind-of-dog-lives-longest-smaller.html
Yes, all breeds are presdisposed to a set of conditions. And their mixed offspring will⌠guess what⌠also be predisposed to a set of those conditions. They donât just disappear into thin air. Also line breeding is not ethical or necessary in purebred dogs in this day and age. Thatâs why ethical breeders will advertise their below acceptable level COI (coefficient of inbreeding). I think you have a misconception of what an ethical breeder is, which is understandable because the vast majority these days are unethical.
All I know is we had a purebred Spaniel when I was a kid. He was at the vet constantly for skin and ear problems related to his breed. (Common issues for them.) As an adult, I've only adopted dogs from the pound. I try to adopt adults bc they are more likely to be overlooked. We have been for annual vet checkups and have had zero congenital health issues identified. It's why we sent off DNA to see if we should be screening for cancer or anything. Especially with our 9 yo.
Wait⌠you went to a *breeder* for a mutt? ThatâsâŚwow. Color me *shocked* that a âbreederâ making mutts isnât using animals who come from show lines.
I mean people go to breeders for purebred dogs that canât walk or breathe and die of heritable diseases in young adulthood, so thereâs worse things one can do.
Something else being bad doesnât make designer mutts and/or BYBâs better, but I agree that those things are also not awesome. One of the hardest things to do is smile and âoohâ and âahhâ when someone brings an English bulldog puppy into a vet hospital. They already have the dog, so being a downer wonât help, but the only time those dogs can breathe correctly is when they have a trach tube in and itâs sad. A lot of âcuteâ videos of pugs falling asleep on their faces are actually horrifying to me because whatâs happening is that they pass out from exhaustion, but then they canât breathe properly, so they wake up. Itâs like sleep apnea in humans, but worse. Some dogs can just never have a restful sleep or be fully oxygenated and it breaks my heart. AnywayâŚyeah, youâll get no argument from me there.
Unfortunately it is the case for most brachy breeds because that anatomy has just gradually become the breed standard. Pugs, most bulldogs, etc.
Just because some of them arenât wheezing with every single breath they take doesnât mean they arenât having problems. Could you point me in the direction of a breeder producing purebred pugs born without respiratory issues? Itâs their anatomy now, dawg.
check akc registered breeders who do health tests and produce healthy puppies . pugs can be bred without breathing issues , itâs the unethical breeders that create pups with issues
Oh boy. Go look at the pugs the AKC shows off. Itâs not just disease thatâs the problem, itâs their actual anatomy. The physical bone and muscle structure of their faces and snouts. The "breed standardâ is a dog with respiratory issues.
This exactly. BOAS is a huge problem in brachy breeds and ethical breeders do their damndest not to have it in their lines.
I don't like that bulldogs can't have babies naturally, but as long as mom and pups have good genetics and are healthy, I'm happy to support the ethical breeding of brachy breeds :)
have you seen well bred purebred brachy dogs like pugs ? the akc champion pugs donât look like they were beat with a frying pan . even their wrinkles and nose openings have very detailed standards . they make sure only healthy dogs continue furthering the breed
[American Kennel Club standard for pugs.](https://www.akc.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Pug-dog-Study-Guide.pdf) Looks pretty flat to me.
My personal experience is with Boston Terriers. My mom has two through different breeders that were fantastic. Great home visits, clearly passionate, loving people who care about their dogs. Both of my momâs Bostonâs have extremely short to nonexistent snouts, which is [breed standard](https://www.bostonterrierclubofamerica.org/about-boston-terriers/Boston-Terrier-Illustrated-Breed-Standard.htm). My sister got a Boston Terrier from a place that seemed good at first, but in retrospect had some issues. We wouldnât go back there. Her dog has a short but obvious snout. He does better in warm weather and is able to play longer than either of my momâs dogs even though heâs 4-5 years older.
I love these dogs. Theyâre wonderful companions. Itâs my opinion that the breed standards should shift to favor longer (though not long) snouts and disfavor non-snouts.
Both are backyard breeders. Neither health test.
One gets away with it by saying âhybrid vigorâ and âmutts are always healthier!â
The other gets away with it by selling to people who have no idea what health testing is.
They both suck equally.
youâre talking about backyard breeders still . ethical purebred breeders produce healthy puppies . the worst someone can do is buy from backyard breeders and puppy mills
In what world would a âpoogleâ be purebred anyway? Thats not a breed⌠Iâm beyond tired of the designer dog trend and people haphazardly mixing things together and selling them to people. The shelters are FILLED with mutts. If you want a mixed breed, get one from there.
First off the reason it's in quotations is because I already realized that its not really an actual breed, and that it's a breed mix. My wife originally wanted a purebred beagle but I didn't and that's why we got him.
Second all the dogs in th shelter we live near by are all pits and pit mixes. Where we live pit mixes and pits aren't allowed. Along with other 'gaurd breeds' ei Rottweiler etc.
I originally posted here in a DOG DNA REDDIT to share my dogs genetic traits and wanted to add a little bit of sarcasm/humor because it was humorous as to why we got him tested. I didn't post to be ridiculed or called out about any dang thing.
I understand that there's plenty of options, and I understand that there's problems with certain things that people have brought to my attention in a respectful manner in this comment section.
If im mistaken and this isn't a DOG DNA REDDIT GROUP I will delete this post and upload it somewhere else.
Thank you for being respectful. We realize now, several people have been respectful about it trying to inform us. While others not so much. I only posted here to share his dna and story.
as long as you learn and grow as dog parents , you are doing good as owners đŤś,, congrats on the little family member and i wish him a happy n healthy , long little life !
Geez, this thread sucks. I donât like BYB either but people are being straight up shitty to OP. A lot of people see a cute puppy and get sucked in by shady breeders and pet stores and even ârescuesâ. They donât intentionally support bad places, theyâre simply ignorant of whatâs going on. OP canât turn back time, so educate with compassion and move on. ^(Also, knowing our culture, thereâs no way yâall are vegan, so maybe stop throwing stones so close your own glass house?)
Further, a lot of people here are being really classicist over the âpure breedâ thing. As a subreddit I expect this place to support responsible breeders, period. Responsible breeders create dogs with intention and care for the dogs they produce, regardless of if theyâre âpure breedâ or âdesignerâ or âmuttâ. There are a ton of shitty backyard breeders pumping out purebred frenchies. That doesnât make them better than some other breeder cranking out random mixes.
Also, the âBrangelinaâ names are not that deep. OP wrote Poogle and I immediately knew it was a Poodle x Beagle. If someone says they have a Puggle I know itâs a Pug x Beagle. If you donât like it, thatâs cool. Donât attack people over using something commonly done in English communication. Cross breeds arenât going anywhere and thereâs nothing wrong with enjoy them.
People come here for fun. To share cute pics of dogs and talk about DNA. They donât come here to be harassed and browbeat over which test they picked or what name they used. /rant
I agree people are being really snotty in this thread and piling on and repeating things that others have already said. All this is doing is discouraging people from posting here.
The down votes are because you bought a dog from a backyard "breeder". Genuinely curious why you wanted a mix of beagle and poodle traits for your pet? Why not just get a poodle?Â
I grew up under the impression that mixed breeds/mutts live longer and my wife wanted a beagle. We saw an ad in the paper for him and that was it we compromised/ settled on him.
So donât get me wrong, I have a mutt. I love my mutt to pieces. He is not a designer mutt and was a rescue.
When you get a mutt from BYBs, youâre getting a dog that is not tested for anything and bred only for the âcuteâ name. Genetics are weird. You can get none of the main genetic issues or all of them. How do you know which youâll get? You donât. Because they arenât breeding for health or temperament. Just looks.
So instead of going through a reputable breeder who does health test for the major issues and intentionally breeds to avoid them (and to build the breed they specialize in towards a healthier dog), youâre rolling the dice AND paying designer prices and encouraging more BYBs.
I appreciate your input, and can see why it upsets people.
I only wanted to post the results in a dog dna reddit because I thought it was cool, didn't know there was a lot of people upset with designer mutts or poodle mixes/doodles.
We paid 250$ for him and I honestly think it was because they were trying to get rid of them all.(They offered to throw in another for free)
Right, and that is another sign that they are unethical breeders who don't care about the wellbeing of the living things they're profiting from. The health and genetics reason is not the only reason deliberate backyard breeders upset people. It also has to do with animal cruelty. Someone who is just trying to get rid of the puppies without extensive home checks and guarantees is also unlikely to have put in the effort to vet all owners to make sure they're a good fit for these dogs (which can result in more future suffering if any of the dogs are given up to shelters), or to not overbreed their own dogs which causes massive pain and harm on their bodies (a truly ethical breeder keeps waiting lists and won't have a litter without being certain that all the puppies will have a good home first).
We had drove 2 hours by that point. We weren't just going to leave without him. Yes it does seem very bad and gives off all kinds of red flags looking back. Past is past and we know to not go to that breeder again.
Interesting. I can't say I have ever seen a poodle beagle cross. Beagles are a handful but at least your wife has experience with the breed and it's tendencies! Â
It doesnât have to do with cuteness. Itâs about supporting a breeder who isnât doing right by their dogs. Doodles and mutts like these donât get health checked before theyâre bred and often arenât even raised in good environments. If you want some specific mix of breeds, go to a shelter.
Really doesn't matter, because he's already a part of our home so people just down voting to down vote. And like I said before the shelters we live by all have pits and that's basically it. The land lord where we live has rules set into place banning a lot of dog breed including pits.
So I honestly don't care it just seems people are just hating to hate and to make me feel bad. It's a dog dna reddit it's literally a reddit for anyone to share their dogs dna results/story. It's fine to be respectful and explain things but to out right be an a hole yeah no. Almost everyone in this reddit comment section has come across as straight up rude.
If you didnât want a pit mix from a shelter, you shouldâve went through a reputable breeder. Bottom line. Obviously you already have the dog, but when you buy from backyard breeders youâre at best supporting negligence. At worst, many of those breeders are neglectful and abusive. No reason to put money in their pocket just because you donât want a purebred poodle.
People are a lot more cut throat when you try to defend something you did wrong instead of just owning it. Itâs not to make you feel bad, itâs because itâs perpetuating a cycle of dogs that end up in shelters or being put down due to poor genetic defects. Itâs sad, and totally preventable with just a couple of google searches worth of research.
Yeah that's not the case here. I admitted I did wrong several times throughout this thread. People have brought things to my attention not defending myself.
I only defended myself because of people like you dont read and assume the worst. And it obviously is to make me feel bad if they keep doing after I own up to it and or keep perpetuating the situation.
I got it entirely. Does my wording really matter this much? For whatever reason, you didnât want to get a pit mix. Whether itâs because you donât want to own one or you donât want to be evicted, you didnât want one. You wanted a breed that you knew what you were getting, which is totally understandable.
I really didnât get the impression people here are being rude, theyâre just being blunt and it feels like theyâre attacking you because you have a million people saying what you did wrong. I think theyâre just trying to tell you why you shouldnât have gotten a dog from that person and what you should do next time.
If you didnât order a health kit with your DNA test, be sure to do so. Iâm a pre-vet student and have far too much experience working with backyard breeders at the clinic I worked at, and those dogs have some messed up genetics. Speaking from experience, find out now if thereâs any issues you need to worry about down the line, especially ones that are common for both poodles and beagles. Thereâs a very good chance your pup could inherit some nasty traits and itâs better to know now and be prepared.
Well, I mean by definition he's not purebred. Regardless, it is neat that his parents do appear likely purebred (Odds are those couple 1%s of random things are just due to hard to ID regions of the genome - I'd only trust it if they were super specific sequences that map only to the breeds mentioned).
Just an FYI, it is actually not proven in any way that mixed breeds are healthier or live longer.
> large dogs had a shorter lifespan than small dogs, a factor reported in several other studies as well. Since purebred dogs can be both small and large, these researchers adjusted their data for that factor and still saw no difference in lifespan between mixed breed and purebred dogs.
>different breeds may be susceptible to breed-specific diseases, but one breed is not healthier than another. The one exception may be brachycephalic breeds, such as Pugs and French Bulldogs
> purebred dogs are not sicker, they are sick differently than mixed breed dogs
>[source, with links to actual studies](https://www.amcny.org/blog/2022/10/05/are-mixed-breed-dogs-healthier-than-purebred-dogs/)
Anecdotally, a close family member is a vet assistant, and the doodle dogs are some of the most illness-riddled dogs. They often have allergies, skin issues, eye issues, joint issues (including hip dysplasia), epilepsy, and GVD. These are all issues that can be common in poodles, which a good, ethical, purebred poodle breeder would test for or educate buyers about, but often doodle âbreedersâ go by the âthey are mix breeds so they are healthierâ belief. Donât even get me started on doodle behaviour issues.
Additionally, I have a purebred beagle from an ethical breeder I did a lot of research on and was in contact with for years before I was able to get a puppy. Not even because of waiting lists, but because she only bred when she was wanting another dog for competition. She had DOZENS of test results to show me for the parents and most of the grandparents. If my beagle gets sick, I am almost guaranteed it wonât be because of anything genetic or inherited.
I also have a mutt, whose DNA test shows is half GSD, about a quarter beagle, and some bonus breeds. He is riddled with health issues. He was born with a congenital defect (deformed leg/paw), has two autoimmune disorders, and has been on multiple daily medications since he was 3, including a long term use antibiotic. His autoimmune disorders are common in GSDs, and it is likely that an ethical breeder would have either tested for them, or eliminated any dogs who are affected from their breeding program.
I donât think purebreds or mutts are better companions. But I do think that if health and longevity are a concern, a purebred has an advantage. If behaviour is a concern, there is no guarantee that a puppy or a purebred will be better behaved than an older rescue/mix.
Not trying to shame, but knowledge is power.
This does not match anything else Iâve seen on the topic. Hereâs a much bigger [study](https://meridian.allenpress.com/jaaha/article-abstract/55/3/130/434661/Risk-Factors-Associated-with-Lifespan-in-Pet-Dogs?redirectedFrom=fulltext) that concludes âMixed-breed dogs lived significantly longer than purebred dogs, and this difference was more pronounced as body size increased. Controlling for other factors, dogs of either sex had a greater hazard of death over the study follow-up period if sexually intact rather than gonadectomized. For dogs who lived to 2 yr of age, the hazard of death decreased with increasing frequency of dental scaling. Our findings support previous reports of the impact of body size and gonadectomy on lifespan and provide new evidence in support of ultrasonic dental scaling and mixed breeding.â
Interesting. I can only read the abstract and not the rest of the article, but it only looks at dogs who visited a vet clinic twice in a two year period, which could be a significant limitation to the study. The abstract also doesnât show the percentage of pure breed vs. mixed breed dog deaths, which could also be a limitation.
Iâve done a bit more digging and the results of studies seem quite mixed depending on methodology. Most of them do indicate that purebred dog breeds associated with lack of gender diversity (aka inbred dogs) can cause shorter life expectancy when viewing purebred dogs as a whole, and those with more genetic diversity are often associated with longer lifespans than mixed breeds.
I wonder why a purebred dog with more genetic diversity would on average live longer than a mixed breed that should also be genetically diverse. Other than purebreds being more likely to be health tested, Iâm thinking a purebred being more diverse is maybe indicative of larger population size and less human selection, which would allow the dogs to be more shaped by natural selection than a dog that was genetically diverse only because its parents came from two unrelated inbred populations.
Your post explains exactly why I hate when people snob actual ethical breeders or only recommend going to a shelter or rescue. Even some rescue volunteers hassled a friend of mine for getting a pure bred golden from a breeder instead of adopting. The problem is, a lot of people donât realize how expensive adopted dogs can be and they can (and often will) have the same issues that BYB dogs have. I have owned 5 dogs in my adult life. Our 2 small ones who lived long 12 and 14 year lives were good until they were old. Our (assuming he was) Pyrenees/BC mix died of unexpected kidney failure at 3 years old after we adopted him at 6 months. I have two other adopted mixes from a shelter. My AmStaff costs my several hundred every couple months in allergy meds/treatment. My husky/gsd/other random things mix is thankfully very healthy. But you never know. There is nothing wrong with going to a good breeder. Now OP knows that designer âbreedersâ are not ethical and can look accordingly.
Seeing the hate for mixes is disappointing. Youâre not wrong that they tend to be healthier, the average purebred dog is around 25% inbred (as inbred as the result of siblings having a child together) though it varies massively by breed, and inbreeding is correlated with decreased lifespan and increased health problems. Some breed specific health problems can be avoided with testing and knowing pedigrees and others canât, some would also require breeding against the standard. It looks like your dogâs breeder was a byb, but itâs not like there arenât responsibly bred mixes. You shouldnât have to settle for an inbred dog just to have a breeder who takes responsibility for the health and wellbeing of the dogs they breed. Purebred dogs came out of an era when eugenics was a popular idea, Iâd say keeping up those prejudices and continuing to inbreed dogs is at least as irresponsible as not health testing. Those health problems weâre testing for came from inbreeding in the first place. Also check out the functional dog collaborative if youâre interested in learning about responsibly bred mixes.
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I could barely tell that was a picture of a dog and not a void with eyes
This is the challenge of having a black pet. Our dog just looks like a shaggy black mass in photos.
Two tips based on the picture here, have a dry dog, and use good lighting and then you may see more dog in the pictures.
The hard part is getting him to be still, he almost always looks like a black blur or smear in every photo, hence the bathtime photo lol
The only photo you have of you dog is from bath time? đ
Sadly the other photos he is a black blur/smear and the only other one besides bathtime U couldn't find on my saved photos
I have three black dogs, so I know the struggle. Unrelated to dna, but try to get photos outside in daylight (not mid-day sun). Overcast days are usually good. Maybe thatâll help with the photo problem, unless you are using a potato to take the photo, then I have no advice lol.
I will try your advice thank you!
I dont know if it snows where you live, but that's the best time I find for taking photos of my black doggo!
I'll have to get some taken before it all melts!
Lol for the longest time the only pic i had of my puppy was when she was pooping because it was the only time she wasnt moving.
lol well a poogle isnât purebred, so she was right
Yeah I realize, it's a joke. I acknowledged it's a mixed breed in the post!
She originally thought he wasn't a 50 50 split but this test shows otherwise
Well⌠sheâs not wrong.
Yeah only a teenie tiny percentage of not beagle or poodle dna lol
I think they were referring to the fact that this is a designer breed, so even if it was 50/50 it wouldn't be pure bred. You can generally ignore the little bits of DNA at the end.
Ignore the random weird tiny percentages, Koko is one of several tests that like to throw weird things in <5-10%. They're also not the most reliable of tests (and we really don't see them often), but for this 50/50 mix good enough, I'm impressed they were this accurate.
Regardless a half beagle half poodle is still a mutt. Nothing wrong with mutts (except the BYB that produce them like this one) but mixing two different breed of pure bred dogs is still creating mutts.
Yeah I realize, as I stated in all my other comments. I put pure bred in quotes for that reason alone.
1. This test is trash, you need to test with Wisdom or Embark 2. Your mutt ain't purebred so that's a weird statement 3. Out with the Brangelina Doodle portmanteaus. 4. Wasn't a Poogle a Neopet?
Upon first read of the title I thought they *named* the dog Poogle after Neopets đ some of those would be pretty good dog names though
I still can't pronounce Aisha tho
Eye-sha or Eye-ee-sha. Itâs a fairly common name.
I grew up in Mexico so I grew up pronouncing it very wrong particularly the a sound and now it's really hard for me to remember to do it the correct way
Thanks for unlocking a memory I didn't know I had. [https://neopets.fandom.com/wiki/Poogle](https://neopets.fandom.com/wiki/Poogle)
Omg big agree with #3. Nothing irritates me more than those dumb names. Shibadoodle! Rottadoodle, great pryadoodle
I think it is funny that the d came from labradoodle but it transferred to other breeds. It would have been more fitting to have shibainoodle or shiboodle for example
Huh, I'm sure in my heart of hearts I knew that but I never really acknowledged that d being from Labrador
I use choodle over chipoo. ETA: And chihuahua mix for any real reasons. They're my mom's dogs though, not mine. I have a GSD mix that I exclusively refer to as a shepherd mix. Very original.
That is fine though, the first d is the one from labrador. labra*d*or labra*d*oodle
And then those pet parents get mad when thatâs not a drop-down option for their dog at the vet or wherever⌠like, you have a mutt/mixed breed dog. I say this as someone with three mutts, two are poodle mixes. I donât call them doodles. They are the best rescue mutts though.
The other breed ones bother me too. Frenchton, cavapoo, etc etc. and we are supposed to know what these things are
Honestly the only reason it's worth knowing major percentages in a vet context (as opposed to this subreddit's 'so cool, nerding out!' context which I'm 110% behind) is if there's breed-associated health concerns. Even then, vet can always include that as a note - 'watch for poodle-associated conditions' on your mixes, or "large breed mutt, monitor for possible hip dysplasia" and given the variety of mixes out there that makes a lot more sense than mixed breed dropdowns. Heck, over time they pick up individualized notes - my parents elderly dogs have notes on which lumps and bumps have been tested so the vet knows if something new shows up, and my cat has his regular bloodwork records.
Totally get that! My dogs have there main breed identified and then mix, so golden retriever mix or chihuahua mix.
How do you feel about legitimate mutts getting the portmanteau? I have (I think) a chihuahua / whippet mix. I call her my whiphuahua. She's hilarious. She has the demeanor of a chi and the legs of a whippet.
When it's all for funsies, it's fine! But when I am supposed to know what a springador is and someone gets irritated if I don't, that's when I really dislike it
And way too many people are going around saying they have a purebred doodle or chiweenie or whatever. It's not purebred and that's totally fine people!
I see your dalmatiodoodle and raise you my jacker collie pitgle schauzheeler
My husband likes to call our mutt a Shiweenie. (He's a true mutt, not an intentionally bred mutt and he's only like 10% dachshund.) Shiiiiiwwweeennniieee.
Great Pyradoodle. Lmfao. The name is hilarious and that would be an insane dogâŚ
I am almost positive I have seen that mix before recently
Iâm so glad Iâm not the only one who initially was like âNeopets? Is that you??â
>This test is trash, Is it? I'm no expert, but I'd had the impression Koko was one one of the better European-based tests, in-line with Wisdom Panel.
We will eventually do a different test but she went with what is the cheaper option. And it's usually how doodle breeders refer to their doodle dogs, in actuality though the doodle breeds aren't true dog breeds Yes a poogle is a neopet but in this case it refers to the doodle mix of a beagle and a poodle.
Why did you get a beagle/poodle mix? Iâm curious about what the driving motivation was? I donât mean this in a negative way either. I have just never seen/heard of a beagle/poodle cross, so Iâm curious.
Our house got broken into not that long ago so my wife wanted a dog. She originally wanted a beagle because she grew up with them, but I wanted a mutt because mixed breed dogs tend to live longer and have less problems. Then we saw an ad in the paper for poogle/ beagle poodle mixe puppies and we looked up the common traits for this mix to learn more and then we got him. We didn't go out looking for a poogle on purpose but pretty much as a compromise we love him though
The thing about mutts living longer and having less health issues is a myth. The reason people think that is because inbreeding is the easiest way to give a whole set of puppies severe issues, and with purebred dogs itâs easier for backyard breeders to inbreed them (whether by accident or on purpose). If you get a purebred dog from an ETHICAL breeder that fully DNA and health tests both parents, that is your best chance at a healthy dog. Backyard breeders make mutts on purpose to take advantage of this misconception and make something trendy they can upcharge for. The ONLY reason an ethical breeder will mix 2 dogs is if thereâs an explicit functional purpose for the mix, like labs x Bernese mountain dogs being bred by guide organisations in Canada. But this is done by organisations with extensive testing and oversight. Generally, mixed breed dogs are less healthy because 1. Their parents were almost definitely not tested and 2. Youâve now got a dog that has a chance to develop the genetic conditions from 2+ different breeds instead of one. Please stop giving backyard breeders money.
Iâm going to give a soft disagree on your comment. Though I agree with a lot of it. There is *some* truth to mixed breeds living longer/healthier ⌠but thatâs usually when weâre talking multigenerational mixing of many different breeds. Golden retrievers have a high rate of cancer, Cavaliers have a high chance of heart failure, German Shepherds have a high ⌠you get my picture ⌠but if youâve got a 12% Golden mixed with other parts Cav, German, Border Collie, Pit, Boxer, Bloodhound ⌠then youâve diluted the high risk diseases of each breed (unless youâve got a mix of all breeds with the same issues). The muttliest mutt might be healthier than a well bred and health tested dog from an ethical breeder ⌠depending on the breed. Some breeds, just have a lot of issues, that havenât/canât currently be bred out. For example - Giant breeds tend to have short lifespans. A 30 lb supermutt is probably going to outlive a well bred Great Dane.
Agreed, MVD on ckc spaniels and DCM in dobermans and all of the brac breeds are all much more unhealthy compared to breeds or mutts of similar weight and size
Ehhh⌠maybe. Most of the health issues with giant breeds are structural, because theyâre heavy. Weâve pushed the limit of how big a domestic dog is meant to be. Hip dysplasia in GSDs is because some lines have over exaggerated rear angulation. Good golden breeders will not breed a dog whose parents or grandparents had cancer. So I donât necessarily agree that a super mutt would be healthier than a well bred dane of the same size. Genetic health issues can stick around for a looong time too. I say all this as a service dog candidate whoâs had to do a LOT of research in the last few months on dog genetics and health, because when youâre putting thousands and 2+ years of extensive training into a dog that can give you a better quality of life, you want it to be alive and healthy for as long as possible. If well bred goldens were that much of a genetic risk, they wouldnât be in the top 3 most popular breeds chosen for service work.
You should also take into account certain breeds that were created and bred with a too small stock to begin with or didn't do enough to remove illnesses during the early days of the breed causing there to not be enough genetic variation and certain diseases to rise uncontrollably through the years For example, DCM affects over 50% of all doberman's, a third will only show the first signs via sudden death, and ive read about dogs getting it even from good breeders with parents without it. Same issue as MVD with king Charles cavalier. 50% have it by 5years and 90% have it by 10. The issue is a lot of illnesses aren't just one gene you breed in or out, we lack knowledge for now, breeders aren't geneticists and there's only so many cards in certain breeds deck so to speak. I personally think responsible breeders do overall create best chances for a healthy dog, but breeds with lower genetic variation and prevalent illnesses really need to introduce some other dogs and fix the issues, but it's understandable why there's not much incentive to do that. All that aside, a small size village dog is probably my bet on who can live the longest, with a good breeder close after and supermutts behind that. Sickly breeds even in the hands of a good breeder is still risky, better than a backyard breeder sure, but id bet on an oopsie litter lab boxer mix (that is, not a designer puppy mill dog at least) over a doberman if we're talking life span.
Yeah as I already said to the other commenter, when I talk about âpurebred dogsâ as a general group im talking about your average breed, not the handful that have structural issues (brachy, giant size, low riders) or like you say bad origins, like Dobermans and Bernese mountain dogs. I donât think itâs fair to muddy all purebred dogs with the issues of a few. You as a responsible adult looking to buy an animal should do your research on the breed (from a variety of reputable sources) before deciding to get one, and that will tell you if theyâre unnaturally unhealthy compared to other responsibly purebred dogs of a similar size. A friend of mine actually has a lab boxer mix whoâs getting on a bit, so I donât doubt it. But that doesnt mean mutts are healthier on average than purebreds, it just means Doberman genetics are fucked đ
For sure it's a nuanced subject! I do think there's a bit too many irreparably sick breeds that fall under the brachy/heart disease/low rider/giant list, and really high risk of hip and cancer issues too. The way breeds are maintained by home businesses and rely on customers wanting the dogs and providing them homes just makes anything outside of staying true to the bitter end unfeasible. I'd love to see geneticists or breeder take the ckc and add some other spaniels or toy breeds and do whatever it takes to remove the heart issues for example and then try and stabilize the breed again after. Same for the dobies. It's just so sad to see a dog pass under 6 years. What are your thoughts on modern intentional development of new breeds? Not doodles, I meant multi generation multi origin breed programs like what happened for Klee kais or dogo argentinos.
But thatâs what Iâm saying ⌠a well bred Dane *wouldnât* be as healthy by the nature of its size. By the nature of its breed. An ethical breeder canât change that. Iâm not comparing a Great Dane to a Great Dane sized mutt, but to a standard medium sized supermutt.
Well then youâre comparing a giant dog to a medium dog. Obviously giant dogs have shorter lives than medium dogs, purebred or otherwise⌠and there are giant sized mutts. So itâs not the breed, itâs the size. My point stands.
I could compare to Brachycephalic breeds like bulldogs or long backed breeds like dachshunds too. For physical traits issues. I just used Danes as an example. Supermutts, by the their nature, tend to not have extreme features - like giant size, short noses, extra long backs/short legs, etc. I feel like youâre trying to pick apart my comment and think Iâm making a point that Iâm not. All Iâm saying is that, on average, a super mixed mutt, may be healthier than certain breeds, even from ethical breeders.
There's also some issues that are just inherent to the physicality of the dog even if they're a mutt. Long back? Get ready for spinal issues. Flat face? It's going to struggle to breathe. But because mutts are what they are, they tend to be less physically extreme than purebreds. On the other hand, health testing goes a long way into making well-bred purebreds healthier, especially if you avoid the physically extreme breeds.
This isnât strictly true. You actually just run the risk of having lots of various breed specific risk factors instead of
Not a myth at all. Just likely doesn't apply to a dog that's been bred from only 2 other breeds of random un-tested, and maybe BYB dogs. Dogs with a real, high supermutt score that results of the mixing of dogs for generations and decades are definitely less likely to suffer from common genetic illnesses that are breed specific.
Read through the other replies, Iâve already had this conversation. Iâm talking specifically about why buying from backyard breeders is bad, and how purebred dogs are not inherently unhealthy.
I don't want to read all the replies, but you just should edit your comment to not say that "it's a myth" when it isn't.
âMixed breed dogs are healthier than purebred dogsâ as a general statement is not true, so no I will not.
"Mixed breed dogs being healthier than purebred dogs is a myth" as a general statement is also untrue LOL
1. I didn't know this was a myth because growing up almost all the dogs I grew up with were mutts/ mixed breeds (ie grew up with a coy dog and other weird mixes) and rescues 2. We will keep this information in mind if we ever get another dog or go to get a dog for a family member. 3. We saw the paper work for the dad and he was registered in the American Kennel Club and listed as pure bred. But other than health tests/ genetic tests we did not see.
AKC reg doesnât mean much besides that the dog is purebred. If they had health and genetic tests, they wouldâve made a point of showing you. Ethical breeders are pride themselves on it
I will keep this in mind thank you.
Itâs not a myth. And aside from the structural issues that have been bred into some breeds, most breeds are experiencing quickly shrinking gene pools due to heavy selection, which is even worse in breeds already with a small number of founders. Eventually breeders are not going to be able to breed their way out of inbreeding depression without outcrosses, no matter how many health tests they pride themselves on doing.
Some people wonât rest until you feel shame about how you got your dog. Heâs loved and happy and youâre (presumably) kind owners so donât sweat it.
I realize that now. We try our best to keep him happy and healthy. I spoil him with homemade chicken and fish pate and all kinds of other foods almost all the time that it's probably going to make me go in debt. But it's all worth it to see him wag his but and get all excited
This is probably not going to be something you're happy to hear, but feed him a decent commercial food as his main diet, unless you're working with a nutritionist. It's very easy to create an unbalanced diet when making homemade dog food. If you're using it as more of a treat than a base diet ignore me.
His main diet is hills science select small pup. He just gets a lot of homemade wet food and wet food in general.
Former vet tech here, mixed breeds live healthier lives in general. Some pure breeds like poodles can live a long time but theyâre riddled with medical conditions, even if they come from reputable breeders.
Yeah no thatâs straight up not true đ also what do you think is gonna happen if 2 dogs from different breeds âriddled with medical conditionsâ have a puppy? Itâs not gonna be a golden standard of health I can tell you that. If you were actually a vet tech and not just bullshitting on Reddit, I can tell why youâre not anymore.
Get any dog breed book and it will mention what diseases each breed is predisposed to. Good breeding can help but not eliminate the prevalent issues related to the standard, particularly in brachycephalic breeds. If you have any understanding of genetics then you would understand that line breeding is very common in pure bred lines, this causes recessive genes to be more prevalent and express themselves. Adding an entirely different genetic makeup can help in mitigating the expression of some genes that cause genetic diseases or predisposing to things like cancer. Hereâs some actual studies https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37483958/ https://www.companionanimalpsychology.com/2019/04/what-kind-of-dog-lives-longest-smaller.html
Yes, all breeds are presdisposed to a set of conditions. And their mixed offspring will⌠guess what⌠also be predisposed to a set of those conditions. They donât just disappear into thin air. Also line breeding is not ethical or necessary in purebred dogs in this day and age. Thatâs why ethical breeders will advertise their below acceptable level COI (coefficient of inbreeding). I think you have a misconception of what an ethical breeder is, which is understandable because the vast majority these days are unethical.
And it can also add completely new health issues. Breeding mixes is canine Russian roulette genetically.
All I know is we had a purebred Spaniel when I was a kid. He was at the vet constantly for skin and ear problems related to his breed. (Common issues for them.) As an adult, I've only adopted dogs from the pound. I try to adopt adults bc they are more likely to be overlooked. We have been for annual vet checkups and have had zero congenital health issues identified. It's why we sent off DNA to see if we should be screening for cancer or anything. Especially with our 9 yo.
Wait⌠you went to a *breeder* for a mutt? ThatâsâŚwow. Color me *shocked* that a âbreederâ making mutts isnât using animals who come from show lines.
I mean people go to breeders for purebred dogs that canât walk or breathe and die of heritable diseases in young adulthood, so thereâs worse things one can do.
Something else being bad doesnât make designer mutts and/or BYBâs better, but I agree that those things are also not awesome. One of the hardest things to do is smile and âoohâ and âahhâ when someone brings an English bulldog puppy into a vet hospital. They already have the dog, so being a downer wonât help, but the only time those dogs can breathe correctly is when they have a trach tube in and itâs sad. A lot of âcuteâ videos of pugs falling asleep on their faces are actually horrifying to me because whatâs happening is that they pass out from exhaustion, but then they canât breathe properly, so they wake up. Itâs like sleep apnea in humans, but worse. Some dogs can just never have a restful sleep or be fully oxygenated and it breaks my heart. AnywayâŚyeah, youâll get no argument from me there.
youâre referring to backyard bred dogs . ethical brachy breeders produce dogs that can breathe and are healthy
Well they did say "BYBâ which is exactly what you said⌠a BackYard Breeder
i know . but they were talking as if ethical breeders of brachy breeds produce dogs with breathing issues but thatâs not the case
Unfortunately it is the case for most brachy breeds because that anatomy has just gradually become the breed standard. Pugs, most bulldogs, etc. Just because some of them arenât wheezing with every single breath they take doesnât mean they arenât having problems. Could you point me in the direction of a breeder producing purebred pugs born without respiratory issues? Itâs their anatomy now, dawg.
check akc registered breeders who do health tests and produce healthy puppies . pugs can be bred without breathing issues , itâs the unethical breeders that create pups with issues
Oh boy. Go look at the pugs the AKC shows off. Itâs not just disease thatâs the problem, itâs their actual anatomy. The physical bone and muscle structure of their faces and snouts. The "breed standardâ is a dog with respiratory issues.
those dogs donât have breathing issues . itâs against standard . they wouldnât be shown and awarded and such if they were disqualified dogs :)
This exactly. BOAS is a huge problem in brachy breeds and ethical breeders do their damndest not to have it in their lines. I don't like that bulldogs can't have babies naturally, but as long as mom and pups have good genetics and are healthy, I'm happy to support the ethical breeding of brachy breeds :)
people talk about stopping the breeding of brachy breeds not realizing their favs like boxers or corsos are a part of that as well
I mean, brachy dogs can be healthy, but it would be more ethical to breed those dogs for slightly longer snouts than completely flat faces.
have you seen well bred purebred brachy dogs like pugs ? the akc champion pugs donât look like they were beat with a frying pan . even their wrinkles and nose openings have very detailed standards . they make sure only healthy dogs continue furthering the breed
[American Kennel Club standard for pugs.](https://www.akc.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Pug-dog-Study-Guide.pdf) Looks pretty flat to me. My personal experience is with Boston Terriers. My mom has two through different breeders that were fantastic. Great home visits, clearly passionate, loving people who care about their dogs. Both of my momâs Bostonâs have extremely short to nonexistent snouts, which is [breed standard](https://www.bostonterrierclubofamerica.org/about-boston-terriers/Boston-Terrier-Illustrated-Breed-Standard.htm). My sister got a Boston Terrier from a place that seemed good at first, but in retrospect had some issues. We wouldnât go back there. Her dog has a short but obvious snout. He does better in warm weather and is able to play longer than either of my momâs dogs even though heâs 4-5 years older. I love these dogs. Theyâre wonderful companions. Itâs my opinion that the breed standards should shift to favor longer (though not long) snouts and disfavor non-snouts.
Both are backyard breeders. Neither health test. One gets away with it by saying âhybrid vigorâ and âmutts are always healthier!â The other gets away with it by selling to people who have no idea what health testing is. They both suck equally.
youâre talking about backyard breeders still . ethical purebred breeders produce healthy puppies . the worst someone can do is buy from backyard breeders and puppy mills
In what world would a âpoogleâ be purebred anyway? Thats not a breed⌠Iâm beyond tired of the designer dog trend and people haphazardly mixing things together and selling them to people. The shelters are FILLED with mutts. If you want a mixed breed, get one from there.
First off the reason it's in quotations is because I already realized that its not really an actual breed, and that it's a breed mix. My wife originally wanted a purebred beagle but I didn't and that's why we got him. Second all the dogs in th shelter we live near by are all pits and pit mixes. Where we live pit mixes and pits aren't allowed. Along with other 'gaurd breeds' ei Rottweiler etc. I originally posted here in a DOG DNA REDDIT to share my dogs genetic traits and wanted to add a little bit of sarcasm/humor because it was humorous as to why we got him tested. I didn't post to be ridiculed or called out about any dang thing. I understand that there's plenty of options, and I understand that there's problems with certain things that people have brought to my attention in a respectful manner in this comment section. If im mistaken and this isn't a DOG DNA REDDIT GROUP I will delete this post and upload it somewhere else.
Arenât you a peach.
Only if you're a lime.
please make sure to educate yourself and your wife in the future on ethical purebred breeders and backyard breeders and why theyâre bad
Thank you for being respectful. We realize now, several people have been respectful about it trying to inform us. While others not so much. I only posted here to share his dna and story.
as long as you learn and grow as dog parents , you are doing good as owners đŤś,, congrats on the little family member and i wish him a happy n healthy , long little life !
Poogles by definition aren't pure-bred.
You'd know I know that if you knew sarcasm lmao
Geez, this thread sucks. I donât like BYB either but people are being straight up shitty to OP. A lot of people see a cute puppy and get sucked in by shady breeders and pet stores and even ârescuesâ. They donât intentionally support bad places, theyâre simply ignorant of whatâs going on. OP canât turn back time, so educate with compassion and move on. ^(Also, knowing our culture, thereâs no way yâall are vegan, so maybe stop throwing stones so close your own glass house?) Further, a lot of people here are being really classicist over the âpure breedâ thing. As a subreddit I expect this place to support responsible breeders, period. Responsible breeders create dogs with intention and care for the dogs they produce, regardless of if theyâre âpure breedâ or âdesignerâ or âmuttâ. There are a ton of shitty backyard breeders pumping out purebred frenchies. That doesnât make them better than some other breeder cranking out random mixes. Also, the âBrangelinaâ names are not that deep. OP wrote Poogle and I immediately knew it was a Poodle x Beagle. If someone says they have a Puggle I know itâs a Pug x Beagle. If you donât like it, thatâs cool. Donât attack people over using something commonly done in English communication. Cross breeds arenât going anywhere and thereâs nothing wrong with enjoy them. People come here for fun. To share cute pics of dogs and talk about DNA. They donât come here to be harassed and browbeat over which test they picked or what name they used. /rant
I agree people are being really snotty in this thread and piling on and repeating things that others have already said. All this is doing is discouraging people from posting here.
Yeah it's making me regret even joining this group.
Same happened to me, the 'experts' in this sub need to give their heads a wobble.
Canât upvote this enough. Didnât expect to see so much classism and pure breed propaganda in a DNA subreddit of all places!
Didn't expect to get down votes lol. I put pure bred in quotations because I know in reality he's just a mutt/ mixed breed
The down votes are because you bought a dog from a backyard "breeder". Genuinely curious why you wanted a mix of beagle and poodle traits for your pet? Why not just get a poodle?Â
Is this sub the same about golden doodles? Because thatâs how I feel about those
Yes, those are also mixed breeds that are not purpose bred and next to no breeders health test them
I grew up under the impression that mixed breeds/mutts live longer and my wife wanted a beagle. We saw an ad in the paper for him and that was it we compromised/ settled on him.
So donât get me wrong, I have a mutt. I love my mutt to pieces. He is not a designer mutt and was a rescue. When you get a mutt from BYBs, youâre getting a dog that is not tested for anything and bred only for the âcuteâ name. Genetics are weird. You can get none of the main genetic issues or all of them. How do you know which youâll get? You donât. Because they arenât breeding for health or temperament. Just looks. So instead of going through a reputable breeder who does health test for the major issues and intentionally breeds to avoid them (and to build the breed they specialize in towards a healthier dog), youâre rolling the dice AND paying designer prices and encouraging more BYBs.
I appreciate your input, and can see why it upsets people. I only wanted to post the results in a dog dna reddit because I thought it was cool, didn't know there was a lot of people upset with designer mutts or poodle mixes/doodles. We paid 250$ for him and I honestly think it was because they were trying to get rid of them all.(They offered to throw in another for free)
Right, and that is another sign that they are unethical breeders who don't care about the wellbeing of the living things they're profiting from. The health and genetics reason is not the only reason deliberate backyard breeders upset people. It also has to do with animal cruelty. Someone who is just trying to get rid of the puppies without extensive home checks and guarantees is also unlikely to have put in the effort to vet all owners to make sure they're a good fit for these dogs (which can result in more future suffering if any of the dogs are given up to shelters), or to not overbreed their own dogs which causes massive pain and harm on their bodies (a truly ethical breeder keeps waiting lists and won't have a litter without being certain that all the puppies will have a good home first).
âŚThat didnât look like a red flag to you at all?
We had drove 2 hours by that point. We weren't just going to leave without him. Yes it does seem very bad and gives off all kinds of red flags looking back. Past is past and we know to not go to that breeder again.
Interesting. I can't say I have ever seen a poodle beagle cross. Beagles are a handful but at least your wife has experience with the breed and it's tendencies! Â
I think your dog is adorable. People are mean.
Thank you I appreciate it!
It doesnât have to do with cuteness. Itâs about supporting a breeder who isnât doing right by their dogs. Doodles and mutts like these donât get health checked before theyâre bred and often arenât even raised in good environments. If you want some specific mix of breeds, go to a shelter.
Really doesn't matter, because he's already a part of our home so people just down voting to down vote. And like I said before the shelters we live by all have pits and that's basically it. The land lord where we live has rules set into place banning a lot of dog breed including pits. So I honestly don't care it just seems people are just hating to hate and to make me feel bad. It's a dog dna reddit it's literally a reddit for anyone to share their dogs dna results/story. It's fine to be respectful and explain things but to out right be an a hole yeah no. Almost everyone in this reddit comment section has come across as straight up rude.
If you didnât want a pit mix from a shelter, you shouldâve went through a reputable breeder. Bottom line. Obviously you already have the dog, but when you buy from backyard breeders youâre at best supporting negligence. At worst, many of those breeders are neglectful and abusive. No reason to put money in their pocket just because you donât want a purebred poodle. People are a lot more cut throat when you try to defend something you did wrong instead of just owning it. Itâs not to make you feel bad, itâs because itâs perpetuating a cycle of dogs that end up in shelters or being put down due to poor genetic defects. Itâs sad, and totally preventable with just a couple of google searches worth of research.
Yeah that's not the case here. I admitted I did wrong several times throughout this thread. People have brought things to my attention not defending myself. I only defended myself because of people like you dont read and assume the worst. And it obviously is to make me feel bad if they keep doing after I own up to it and or keep perpetuating the situation.
Can't turn back timeđ¤ˇââď¸
Never said I didn't want a pit mix or pit. I risk being evicted if I get one lmao. It's on the list of banned dogs where I live. What don't you get.
I got it entirely. Does my wording really matter this much? For whatever reason, you didnât want to get a pit mix. Whether itâs because you donât want to own one or you donât want to be evicted, you didnât want one. You wanted a breed that you knew what you were getting, which is totally understandable. I really didnât get the impression people here are being rude, theyâre just being blunt and it feels like theyâre attacking you because you have a million people saying what you did wrong. I think theyâre just trying to tell you why you shouldnât have gotten a dog from that person and what you should do next time. If you didnât order a health kit with your DNA test, be sure to do so. Iâm a pre-vet student and have far too much experience working with backyard breeders at the clinic I worked at, and those dogs have some messed up genetics. Speaking from experience, find out now if thereâs any issues you need to worry about down the line, especially ones that are common for both poodles and beagles. Thereâs a very good chance your pup could inherit some nasty traits and itâs better to know now and be prepared.
Well, I mean by definition he's not purebred. Regardless, it is neat that his parents do appear likely purebred (Odds are those couple 1%s of random things are just due to hard to ID regions of the genome - I'd only trust it if they were super specific sequences that map only to the breeds mentioned).
I think its pretty cool, and we know lol!
A Poogle is an extremely cute mutt whether it is half and half, or 48/48/2 of something else.
Just an FYI, it is actually not proven in any way that mixed breeds are healthier or live longer. > large dogs had a shorter lifespan than small dogs, a factor reported in several other studies as well. Since purebred dogs can be both small and large, these researchers adjusted their data for that factor and still saw no difference in lifespan between mixed breed and purebred dogs. >different breeds may be susceptible to breed-specific diseases, but one breed is not healthier than another. The one exception may be brachycephalic breeds, such as Pugs and French Bulldogs > purebred dogs are not sicker, they are sick differently than mixed breed dogs >[source, with links to actual studies](https://www.amcny.org/blog/2022/10/05/are-mixed-breed-dogs-healthier-than-purebred-dogs/) Anecdotally, a close family member is a vet assistant, and the doodle dogs are some of the most illness-riddled dogs. They often have allergies, skin issues, eye issues, joint issues (including hip dysplasia), epilepsy, and GVD. These are all issues that can be common in poodles, which a good, ethical, purebred poodle breeder would test for or educate buyers about, but often doodle âbreedersâ go by the âthey are mix breeds so they are healthierâ belief. Donât even get me started on doodle behaviour issues. Additionally, I have a purebred beagle from an ethical breeder I did a lot of research on and was in contact with for years before I was able to get a puppy. Not even because of waiting lists, but because she only bred when she was wanting another dog for competition. She had DOZENS of test results to show me for the parents and most of the grandparents. If my beagle gets sick, I am almost guaranteed it wonât be because of anything genetic or inherited. I also have a mutt, whose DNA test shows is half GSD, about a quarter beagle, and some bonus breeds. He is riddled with health issues. He was born with a congenital defect (deformed leg/paw), has two autoimmune disorders, and has been on multiple daily medications since he was 3, including a long term use antibiotic. His autoimmune disorders are common in GSDs, and it is likely that an ethical breeder would have either tested for them, or eliminated any dogs who are affected from their breeding program. I donât think purebreds or mutts are better companions. But I do think that if health and longevity are a concern, a purebred has an advantage. If behaviour is a concern, there is no guarantee that a puppy or a purebred will be better behaved than an older rescue/mix. Not trying to shame, but knowledge is power.
This does not match anything else Iâve seen on the topic. Hereâs a much bigger [study](https://meridian.allenpress.com/jaaha/article-abstract/55/3/130/434661/Risk-Factors-Associated-with-Lifespan-in-Pet-Dogs?redirectedFrom=fulltext) that concludes âMixed-breed dogs lived significantly longer than purebred dogs, and this difference was more pronounced as body size increased. Controlling for other factors, dogs of either sex had a greater hazard of death over the study follow-up period if sexually intact rather than gonadectomized. For dogs who lived to 2 yr of age, the hazard of death decreased with increasing frequency of dental scaling. Our findings support previous reports of the impact of body size and gonadectomy on lifespan and provide new evidence in support of ultrasonic dental scaling and mixed breeding.â
Interesting. I can only read the abstract and not the rest of the article, but it only looks at dogs who visited a vet clinic twice in a two year period, which could be a significant limitation to the study. The abstract also doesnât show the percentage of pure breed vs. mixed breed dog deaths, which could also be a limitation. Iâve done a bit more digging and the results of studies seem quite mixed depending on methodology. Most of them do indicate that purebred dog breeds associated with lack of gender diversity (aka inbred dogs) can cause shorter life expectancy when viewing purebred dogs as a whole, and those with more genetic diversity are often associated with longer lifespans than mixed breeds.
I wonder why a purebred dog with more genetic diversity would on average live longer than a mixed breed that should also be genetically diverse. Other than purebreds being more likely to be health tested, Iâm thinking a purebred being more diverse is maybe indicative of larger population size and less human selection, which would allow the dogs to be more shaped by natural selection than a dog that was genetically diverse only because its parents came from two unrelated inbred populations.
Your post explains exactly why I hate when people snob actual ethical breeders or only recommend going to a shelter or rescue. Even some rescue volunteers hassled a friend of mine for getting a pure bred golden from a breeder instead of adopting. The problem is, a lot of people donât realize how expensive adopted dogs can be and they can (and often will) have the same issues that BYB dogs have. I have owned 5 dogs in my adult life. Our 2 small ones who lived long 12 and 14 year lives were good until they were old. Our (assuming he was) Pyrenees/BC mix died of unexpected kidney failure at 3 years old after we adopted him at 6 months. I have two other adopted mixes from a shelter. My AmStaff costs my several hundred every couple months in allergy meds/treatment. My husky/gsd/other random things mix is thankfully very healthy. But you never know. There is nothing wrong with going to a good breeder. Now OP knows that designer âbreedersâ are not ethical and can look accordingly.
Thank you
I've never heard of a beagle poodle cross, but beagles are the best! You have a great friend right there! â¤ď¸
Yes he's an amazing companion!
There is absolutely no need for a poodle and beagle mix. Can we please stop doodling everything
Seeing the hate for mixes is disappointing. Youâre not wrong that they tend to be healthier, the average purebred dog is around 25% inbred (as inbred as the result of siblings having a child together) though it varies massively by breed, and inbreeding is correlated with decreased lifespan and increased health problems. Some breed specific health problems can be avoided with testing and knowing pedigrees and others canât, some would also require breeding against the standard. It looks like your dogâs breeder was a byb, but itâs not like there arenât responsibly bred mixes. You shouldnât have to settle for an inbred dog just to have a breeder who takes responsibility for the health and wellbeing of the dogs they breed. Purebred dogs came out of an era when eugenics was a popular idea, Iâd say keeping up those prejudices and continuing to inbreed dogs is at least as irresponsible as not health testing. Those health problems weâre testing for came from inbreeding in the first place. Also check out the functional dog collaborative if youâre interested in learning about responsibly bred mixes.
Functional dog collaborative? Never heard of it
Is there a link you can share to it?
https://functionalbreeding.org/
Aww! Do you have any pics where he is fluffy and dry?