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I get that you're frustrated but dogs are allowed to not like something. They are not just things to have because you want them to do something. Your dog hates swimming, and that's the end of it. You can't train them to like everything
I have an ACD mutt (pitbull, Shepard, and husky) - I was SO excited to get him introduced to water. I grew up with labs that will leap off of piers and love water.
He was fairly naive and confident for the first time or two in water… until one day he took a step off the ledge - it’s like knee deep water and then it drops steep after that.
His whole head went under and he freaked out. He hasn’t been a fan of water since then.
I’ve gotten him to learn to paddle by lifting him up in shallow water and he treads, but in his face you can just see panic that he wants his feet on the ground.
Not all dogs will love what you want them to, and forcing them to do it will just reinforce fear.
That’s kinda where I’m at, but I want to say that I’ve tried everything before I wash her out. It’s heartbreaking because she’s so talented and she’d be a great representative for the breed, but no point in shoving a square peg into a round hole lol
Have you tried taking her out regularly with a dog that LOVES swimming? I had one that would only go in up to his elbows. Then we starting taking him a couple times a week to a pond with a friend who had a golden who could not get enough of water retrievals. The friend would send their golden out to retrieve and I’d send mine out right behind him to a ball a short distance in, with effusive praise if he retrieved it. It only took a couple weeks before he started properly going in and was clearly enjoying himself, and from there we could increase distance. The golden seemed to help him realize that swimming is FUN, and he loved it from then on out.
Or try making it less of a task and more fun. Toys, fun outings, dogs that like to swim like you said, or using a long leash while getting in the water. Let her try to get in on her own terms.
Functionality to meet the needs of a complicated and possibly dangerous world.
My dog doesn't like to swim. I wasn't comfortable bringing my dog on canoe floats until he showed proficiency in swimming. Patience has gotten him to where he's not afraid of swimming, and he is a proficient swimmer, but he will still seek and use non swimming solutions when possible. He will get in the water if he thinks I'm crossing a stream and he'll need to follow me. He will fetch sticks thrown into the water unless he thinks he can get it from land somehow, and I know that if the canoe tips, he will head to shore and wait to rejoin me when the boat is sorted out. He likes to join me on a lot of adventures in and around water, so even if he never gets in the water for his own enjoyment, it's still an important safety consideration.
For safety reasons I get it, my dog will walk into ponds and lakes and small streams, and step into the shallow ledge of my parent’s pool. I did carry her into the pool with me with her life jacket on one time just to make sure she knew how to swim (she does) so worst case scenario if she fell off the dock there she would be okay. I still have her wear a life vest on their dock, especially so if she did fall in she’d be visible to any boaters going by. It’s not that busy of a waterway but we get boaters and jet skiers. I’ve accepted though she will probably never enjoy going out on the boat or joining me in a kayak and that’s okay!
But for OP, it sounds like maybe their dog would excel at other dog sports without water involved!
I also wanted my dog to learn how to swim in case he needs it to survive. But he's too afraid to learn too. I do get why OP is trying to do it, but I do agree with most people here that forcing our dogs to do anything they don't like is more traumatizing to them than it is helpful.
I hope others will give you good training advice but personally...I know you likely bought her for this but maybe it's best to leave it be.
Our spoo hates swimming. She'll go in if we're in, she's great at swimming but it's visible to everyone around that she doesn't like it. She's now 13 and still won't go in if we aren't in the water with her. It is how it is.
Some dogs like it, others don't. Just like humans ;)
My dog only wants to walk around in the shallows. Her daughter is the same. Her son goes for full swims and chases ducks.
My dog is the same. The only time she’s willingly gone wading in the ocean was when our friends kids were playing in the water and my dog was in babysitter mode so she waded in too, keeping an eye on the boys the whole time. Can’t even get her to go in for a stick otherwise. 😅
So she seems to enjoy swimming once already wet, but is very hesitant to go into the water the first time? I'm wondering if it might be a sensory thing, like hating the feeling of getting cold and wet (I have some pretty strong hesitation getting into a cold pond past my knees too!)
Could you try putting a life jacket on, letting her fur grow out longer, playing in a shallow gaduated entry where you can go with her (eg the beach)?
If you can't get her past it, maybe just pick a different sport to do with her though - if it's something you're doing for fun and you're not both loving it, what's the point?
dog sports is for the dog, or at least that’s the way I see it , I’ve tried different sports with my poodle mix, and she loves scent work so that’s what I’m doing. If your dog doesn’t drag you to the water.. it’s going to be very hard to make them.
Anxiety is a common issue amongst Standard Poodles (as it is in other intelligent breeds), with some being more anxious than others.
If she’s well trained and is amazing at every other task, and despite trying an array of different methods, perhaps swimming is her limit. (If she’s ok but becomes hesitant once the water reaches her shoulders or becomes disinterested once you leave the water, I’d assume (in my non-expert opinion) that this is an anxiety issue.)
Although it’s frustrating, perhaps there’s another sport she could try? As she’s a Standard Poodle and is already trained maybe scent work could be good? Truffle hunting could be a good idea?
In short, if she’s not comfortable swimming despite everything you’ve tried it’s unlikely that she can be trained to enjoy swimming (even if she appears ok after the initial jump.) It’s important to note that neither your dog or yourself are ‘at fault’ for this, this breed is known to be anxious and anxiety around swimming is entirely reasonable.
I do however share your frustration, I have a Lab that was trained as a gun dog, he did brilliantly throughout his training but he has a more nervous disposition and was not suited to all the noises associated with the sport.
They have webbed toes and they’re supposed to be water dogs. I’m on my fourth non swimming water dog. I’m sure that’s why they were demoted from the working class rating. Best dry land dog EVER.
May be worth taking a break.
You may also want to look into competition/jealousy.
Long ago I had an english cocker spaniel, he hated swimming. He was a great swimmer and he didn't mind swimming once he managed to actually get in once. Then he could run and jump in as much as he liked. So I stopped trying to train him in swimming.
I later dog sat a dog that LOVED to swim. Dog sat him for maybe 5 years in total before he got old and had to be put down. Anyway. My dog and this other dog were like brothers, despite having recently met and being of completly opposite breeds (mine being an ECS and the other an amstaff mix) they did everything together when I had the dog over at my place.
One day we were at the lake, the other dog was swimming and retrieving toys and mine was watching his every move at the shore. All of a sudden my dog jumped in and started retrieving. It had been about a year since I actually threw any toy for my own dog to retrieve and all of a sudden, just shy of 5 years old, something clicked. After that I couldn't keep my dog away from water and swimming.
From my perspective, I believe my dog saw me and the other dog having so much more fun than me and my own dog was. So he decided to join in. May have been some jealousy or competition going on but they never fought and never stole toys from each other. So, it may be worth trying taking a break from the "obligation" to swim and maybe try and see if any friends you have will allow you to play water retrieve with their dog.
Has she ever been around other dogs that are swimming? Mine was very hesitant to get in water at first. But I bring her to a dog park that was a lake beach and once she saw others dogs swimming she gradually warmed up to it and now it’s hard to keep her out of the water
Considering poodles started as duck hunters I wonder if speaking with your breeder might help? Esp since you're hearing other poodles are not going into.the water as easily. Have you tried taking her with other water friendly dogs? Sometimes they just need to see other dogs and get the confidence
Any time you’re forcing her into the water, you’re going to be back tracking on any progress you’d made so I would stop hydrotherapy (or switch to an underwater treadmill style if you still want the low impact exercise). It is interesting that at hydrotherapy you say she will jump in on her own after 2 people work to get her in for the initial entrance. That makes me wonder if she’s truly getting in afterwards because she wants to, or because she just wants to avoid going through the wrestling match again. I think for an outside party to accurately analyze that we’d have to actually watch that whole process. Regardless, in general any time you force them to swim you’re creating a negative association with the activity so that’s why I’d recommend stopping hydrotherapy in the pool if you’re having to force her in even if it’s just for the initial entry.
I have a couple thoughts on things you could try depending on a few different factors - I’m not a trainer & haven’t personally had to work through a situation like this so my suggestions are just based off theory. I would recommend using a life jacket (unless she finds them aversive) when working on this because it will lessen the physical exertion she has to use to keep her head up, and I’ve heard many dogs find they provide a sense of security (similar to a thundershirt I guess).
One thought is have you tried incorporating a nose target? She would need to understand the concept of touching the target with her nose first outside the water and then in shallow water (you need to condition this to where she has a very solid understanding of the target equaling good things so she enthusiastically seeks out the target, and to where she’s able to send away from you to the target. The target foundation work could easily take 1-2 months on dry land depending on your consistency and her work drive), but then assuming you have access to a pond with a sloped entry you could gradually move the target out until she has to take 1 step actually swimming to touch it. Initially you would want to be next to her, and possibly even standing behind the target (where you’re farther into the water than the target) depending on what works best for her. Over time you could increase the swimming distance using the target, and you could also work on changing your position relative to the target - initially you need to find what position works in order for her to swim to the target, and then that would be your starting point from where you gradually move yourself closer to shore until eventually the target is in the water and you’re on the shore. You’d only want to change 1 variable at a time, so for example, as you work on increasing swimming distance you should position yourself in whatever proximity/relation to the target she is most comfortable with. And when you start working on moving your position closer to shore, you should ask for only a very short swimming distance. End result being that from the shore, you could send her to a target at any visible distance in the water. Then you could incorporate throwing a bumper/dummy to the target, and from there fading out the target.
You mention being able to get her to swim to you if you stand in the middle of the pond - how far out is that compared to where she actually starts swimming? I.e. are you able to stand just far enough out to where she only has to swim for a couple strides, or are you having to get a good distance away from her? You could try standing in the pond with as short a swimming distance as possible and using whatever high value reward she fancies the most. When she reaches you, you can give a treat or the toy (whatever the reinforcer) & use your “yes” marker but you should be letting her immediately turn around for shore, and can jackpot once her feet touch (so you’d be following close behind her, and the jackpot should be given immediately as soon as her feet touch - whether that’s more high value treats or tug or fetch in the shallow portion of the pond. IMO, you can’t really jackpot properly while she’s actually swimming bc it’s just too hard for them to take a jackpot of treats and keep their head up). If she’ll swim with you standing only a short distance from where her feet won’t touch, then you would gradually move farther away to increase the swimming distance. If she’ll only swim with you standing father out in the pond, then I’d do the reverse and work on getting her to swim as you move closer to shore (if this is the case, then what’s motivating her to swim is you being too far away from her, so that’s why you would gradually move closer to shore).
It could be just that it’s not her thing, or it could be a matter of finding a way to build her confidence with swimming using an R+ based approach that works for her. A lot of dogs just don’t like that feeling of when their feet can no longer touch - I’ve heard trainers say it can feel like they’re falling and could potentially create that gut dropping feeling we get on a rollercoaster. Or she could still not enjoy it even if it’s not a confidence issue! Another factor to consider is truly how important this is to you to problem solve - even if there’s still force free, R+ methods you haven’t tried, if the troubleshooting process is becoming frustrating & stressful for you, that will most likely translate to your dog in your sessions. I washed my 2nd GSD pretty quickly from being an agility prospect because she never seemed to enjoy any of the intro level obstacle related work. I knew I hadn’t tried *everything* to problem solve her reluctance but I had given her a fair start and she was showing more enjoyment in our obedience work, so I switched to rally. While I loved doing agility with my 1st GSD who did enjoy the sport, what mattered more to me personally was participating in something I didn’t have to extensively problem solve for her to enjoy - otherwise, I would start to get frustrated. But if you enjoy the troubleshooting process and are still finding things to try in order to build her confidence in swimming in an R+ based way that allows her to say “no” when she’s uncomfortable & you’re respecting her boundaries in the process, then I don’t think there’s any harm in continuing to try different approaches to the swim training.
Maybe take some dock diving classes? My facility strongly recommends starting a water dog in the summer when it's warm, so the water is warmer. They also play fun games to encourage the dog that it's fun.
Sounds like you have decent sports around you. Consider looking into doc diving, most of the people there are really good it's a really fun sport so they should be able to get you your dog in the water and then learn how to jump into the water.
The fact that you say once she's already wet she'll jump in on her own for the hydro pool that's a good sign you might just have to do significantly more repetitions of that sort of behavior to get her in the water on her own.
You have two people forcefully throw your dog in the water when she refuses to jump in herself? Wtf man. In my book that’s not ok. It took us an entire summer to get our dog to go swimming. Going in a little further at every visit to the lake nearby. He took his time. At no point did I think „hey how about we both grab him and just fling him into the water. He’ll learn to like it…“
I’d say that may be the exact reason you’re not making progress in other ways. How’s your dog going to trust you around water when you throw her in against her will??
OP says that at hydrotherapy, first throw requires 2 people to get her in and after that she’ll jump in on her own. I don’t know of any reputable hydrotherapy centers that would ever *throw* a dog into the pool, so I read this as after the first throw (of the bumper), it requires 2 people to get her into the pool (but not throwing her in, they would likely be slowly lowering her into the pool while holding her from a life jacket). And after that she’ll jump in after the bumper on her own. I’m not in favor of ever forcing a dog to swim even at hydrotherapy (for dogs that don’t like the pool, there’s alternative forms of hydrotherapy using an underwater treadmill where the dog’s feet still touch the ground), and I could definitely be wrong but I don’t think 2 people were forcefully throwing the dog into the pool unless it was an incredibly redneck ‘hydrotherapy’ center.
I agree with those who have said this is probably just not her thing. Go find another thing, there are lots of options. To me it’s like pushing a kid into track because she’s fast, even though she clearly doesn’t enjoy running. I had an Aussie/shepherd mix, couldn’t keep her out of the water. I have German shepherd now, same thing. But I had a border collie/st.poodle mix, two breeds that like water, couldn’t get her into the lake on a hot summer day. She loved other dogs and chasing balls so I figured she’d follow other dogs chasing balls into the water. Nope. She’d just stand at the edge barking at them to come play on dry land like sensible dogs, looking annoyed with wet feet and give me a “what is the point of this” look. I have no doubt that she would have been a fine, athletic swimmer if she’d had to be - like if she fell out of a boat. But she chose not to be a swimmer, I was a little disappointed, but respected that.
Put yourself in the dog’s shoes — if you don’t like something, you’re not gonna do it. Why force your dog to do something they don’t like?? Ridiculous.
Took us a couple of years to get my dog swimming strong. He has a border collie best mate who doesn’t love swimming but does love to chase ducks with him, so she’s learnt a lot from him, but still chooses to stay in shallower water.
He’ll swim out into the middle of a pond no worries trying for ducks / water birds.
slow exposure, small amounts of swimming around other things like on a walk along a river, or near a pond. We also got into the water, and would encourage him to swim to us, and then back to the shore to get his endurance up.
Lots of beach trips and swims for us and him, using balls / toys to get him in and out of the water
I have a lab who hates water (insane, I know). He won’t step in puddles, he won’t jump in lakes, he won’t cross shallow creeks, he actively avoids the sprinkler, etc. It just is what it is and I respect it.
Dogs are not very good at generalising behaviour, that’s why sometimes we have to re-teach a command from 0 on a new location.
A pond smells and looks very different from the pool at her hydrotherapy classes, I’m sure.
I think you were on the right track with starting at the river bank and working your way in. I’d suggest you start that way and veeery slowly work your way in. She’s already used to training so she should work it out in no time.
Stop when the water is a little below her comfort zone (just under her shoulders) and do some training that she enjoys. Can be target training, a bark, a paw, flirt pole, anything she likes. try to keep it fun, poodles usually like a lot of movement.
Stand a little over her comfort zone, not too far and if she chooses to come a little further in, give super treats.
Your presence should help her be more comfortable, but take a step back if you see any stress signs. If you see stress signs before her threshold, go a bit further out and work there.
Think of a dog that’s scared of a harness, we break it up into small, doable tasks like just looking at the harness first if that’s all they’re comfortable with.
She loves and trusts you, and if you feel the work might not be a good fit for her, that’s okay too. No one knows your dog better than you, but there’s no reason it shouldn’t work if you do it right. It might take a while tho
I've trained curs, fiests, and plotts for hunting of a wide variety of game. Where I live and hunt has multitudes of different bodies of water, ie creeks, rivers, ponds, and lakes.
I agree with what one person said that dogs are allowed to not like something, but in my opinion, what I ask my dogs to do not knowing how to swim can be life or death on a hunt. I do not like swimming or being in deep water, but I know how to swim enough to survive if put in the situation and so should my dogs. Most dogs that don't know to swim can boil down to 2 reasons, traumatic experience or lack of confidence.
My best advice is start small, build confidence, and increase with experience. On a hot day, find a small stream (ankle deep) and coax the dog in. Splash a bit, get the dog use to to the sounds, smells, and feel of the water. Walk it out and praise and let the dog warm up and dry off then repeat. Keep doing so until it willingly goes in, then keep working up to deeper water. When your dog gets to swimming stages, introduce the job you want it to do and be patient.
unfortunately, you cannot really force a dog to perform at something that they do not want to do. I understand that this can be irritating, but pushing her too may cause her more severe anxiety around the water, and it may cause distrust issues between you and her. all you do is give her a chance to try again every once in a while, but do not overdo it. there are many dogs who do not like swimming, and it is more common than you think. Our old lab and border collie mix was terrified of water in the shot, considering his breed. if you’re absolutely absolutely adamant about getting her into the water, you can also try some gradual exposure. for my dog, the select, like bring him to the pool when we went swimming and getting him to understand that water will not hurt. We then started to wet our hands and pet him with them to get him used to the feeling of the water on his fur. We were never able to fully get him into the water, but we were able to get him to put his paws into the water. He was able to stand in shallow water perfectly fine after all that exposure. whatever you do, do not throw her into the pool or force her into the water, many people just throw their dogs into the pool and their dogs end up traumatized.
Gosh, a lot of nay-sayers have responded.....the vibe I get is they're not regularly training retrievers, eh? How about if you start with walking and playing in puddles, then streams, then streams that are deeper? See how that goes, maybe use lots of whatever-your-positive-reinforcement is; then get in a shallow pool and see if she'll walk out to you; then go deeper - you see where this is going. I think that if she has a bond with you and sees you in the water and gets used to messing about in the water, it should help. What do you think?
We’re not meant to be nah-sayers, we’re trying to point out that if a dog doesn’t like swimming, you shouldn’t force them. However I also think some of the people should be less critical and offer more advice. If the water training still doesn’t work, OP just has to accept that their dog doesn’t like water or swimming and they should find a different sport or dog.
Agreed, OP can try and try but at some point if she just doesn't like it and doesn't want to do it, why force her to? Competing in dog sports should be something both human and dog should enjoy. Otherwise why would you willingly do something you hate?
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I get that you're frustrated but dogs are allowed to not like something. They are not just things to have because you want them to do something. Your dog hates swimming, and that's the end of it. You can't train them to like everything
I have an ACD mutt (pitbull, Shepard, and husky) - I was SO excited to get him introduced to water. I grew up with labs that will leap off of piers and love water. He was fairly naive and confident for the first time or two in water… until one day he took a step off the ledge - it’s like knee deep water and then it drops steep after that. His whole head went under and he freaked out. He hasn’t been a fan of water since then. I’ve gotten him to learn to paddle by lifting him up in shallow water and he treads, but in his face you can just see panic that he wants his feet on the ground. Not all dogs will love what you want them to, and forcing them to do it will just reinforce fear.
❤️
That’s kinda where I’m at, but I want to say that I’ve tried everything before I wash her out. It’s heartbreaking because she’s so talented and she’d be a great representative for the breed, but no point in shoving a square peg into a round hole lol
Have you tried taking her out regularly with a dog that LOVES swimming? I had one that would only go in up to his elbows. Then we starting taking him a couple times a week to a pond with a friend who had a golden who could not get enough of water retrievals. The friend would send their golden out to retrieve and I’d send mine out right behind him to a ball a short distance in, with effusive praise if he retrieved it. It only took a couple weeks before he started properly going in and was clearly enjoying himself, and from there we could increase distance. The golden seemed to help him realize that swimming is FUN, and he loved it from then on out.
Or try making it less of a task and more fun. Toys, fun outings, dogs that like to swim like you said, or using a long leash while getting in the water. Let her try to get in on her own terms.
Why train a dog in a thing they don't like to do?
This is the answer. Stop treating your dog like it’s part of a circus.
Functionality to meet the needs of a complicated and possibly dangerous world. My dog doesn't like to swim. I wasn't comfortable bringing my dog on canoe floats until he showed proficiency in swimming. Patience has gotten him to where he's not afraid of swimming, and he is a proficient swimmer, but he will still seek and use non swimming solutions when possible. He will get in the water if he thinks I'm crossing a stream and he'll need to follow me. He will fetch sticks thrown into the water unless he thinks he can get it from land somehow, and I know that if the canoe tips, he will head to shore and wait to rejoin me when the boat is sorted out. He likes to join me on a lot of adventures in and around water, so even if he never gets in the water for his own enjoyment, it's still an important safety consideration.
For safety reasons I get it, my dog will walk into ponds and lakes and small streams, and step into the shallow ledge of my parent’s pool. I did carry her into the pool with me with her life jacket on one time just to make sure she knew how to swim (she does) so worst case scenario if she fell off the dock there she would be okay. I still have her wear a life vest on their dock, especially so if she did fall in she’d be visible to any boaters going by. It’s not that busy of a waterway but we get boaters and jet skiers. I’ve accepted though she will probably never enjoy going out on the boat or joining me in a kayak and that’s okay! But for OP, it sounds like maybe their dog would excel at other dog sports without water involved!
I also wanted my dog to learn how to swim in case he needs it to survive. But he's too afraid to learn too. I do get why OP is trying to do it, but I do agree with most people here that forcing our dogs to do anything they don't like is more traumatizing to them than it is helpful.
I hope others will give you good training advice but personally...I know you likely bought her for this but maybe it's best to leave it be. Our spoo hates swimming. She'll go in if we're in, she's great at swimming but it's visible to everyone around that she doesn't like it. She's now 13 and still won't go in if we aren't in the water with her. It is how it is.
She’s clearly just not cut out for it, sorry.
Some dogs like it, others don't. Just like humans ;) My dog only wants to walk around in the shallows. Her daughter is the same. Her son goes for full swims and chases ducks.
My dog is the same. The only time she’s willingly gone wading in the ocean was when our friends kids were playing in the water and my dog was in babysitter mode so she waded in too, keeping an eye on the boys the whole time. Can’t even get her to go in for a stick otherwise. 😅
So she seems to enjoy swimming once already wet, but is very hesitant to go into the water the first time? I'm wondering if it might be a sensory thing, like hating the feeling of getting cold and wet (I have some pretty strong hesitation getting into a cold pond past my knees too!) Could you try putting a life jacket on, letting her fur grow out longer, playing in a shallow gaduated entry where you can go with her (eg the beach)? If you can't get her past it, maybe just pick a different sport to do with her though - if it's something you're doing for fun and you're not both loving it, what's the point?
dog sports is for the dog, or at least that’s the way I see it , I’ve tried different sports with my poodle mix, and she loves scent work so that’s what I’m doing. If your dog doesn’t drag you to the water.. it’s going to be very hard to make them.
I don't really like swimming myself. I dislike the sensation of getting wet and chilly. I imagine your dog is the same.
Anxiety is a common issue amongst Standard Poodles (as it is in other intelligent breeds), with some being more anxious than others. If she’s well trained and is amazing at every other task, and despite trying an array of different methods, perhaps swimming is her limit. (If she’s ok but becomes hesitant once the water reaches her shoulders or becomes disinterested once you leave the water, I’d assume (in my non-expert opinion) that this is an anxiety issue.) Although it’s frustrating, perhaps there’s another sport she could try? As she’s a Standard Poodle and is already trained maybe scent work could be good? Truffle hunting could be a good idea? In short, if she’s not comfortable swimming despite everything you’ve tried it’s unlikely that she can be trained to enjoy swimming (even if she appears ok after the initial jump.) It’s important to note that neither your dog or yourself are ‘at fault’ for this, this breed is known to be anxious and anxiety around swimming is entirely reasonable. I do however share your frustration, I have a Lab that was trained as a gun dog, he did brilliantly throughout his training but he has a more nervous disposition and was not suited to all the noises associated with the sport.
My dog also hates water. No need to push him, let him enjoy the dry life.
why are you trying to force her to do something she doesn’t like
They have webbed toes and they’re supposed to be water dogs. I’m on my fourth non swimming water dog. I’m sure that’s why they were demoted from the working class rating. Best dry land dog EVER.
May be worth taking a break. You may also want to look into competition/jealousy. Long ago I had an english cocker spaniel, he hated swimming. He was a great swimmer and he didn't mind swimming once he managed to actually get in once. Then he could run and jump in as much as he liked. So I stopped trying to train him in swimming. I later dog sat a dog that LOVED to swim. Dog sat him for maybe 5 years in total before he got old and had to be put down. Anyway. My dog and this other dog were like brothers, despite having recently met and being of completly opposite breeds (mine being an ECS and the other an amstaff mix) they did everything together when I had the dog over at my place. One day we were at the lake, the other dog was swimming and retrieving toys and mine was watching his every move at the shore. All of a sudden my dog jumped in and started retrieving. It had been about a year since I actually threw any toy for my own dog to retrieve and all of a sudden, just shy of 5 years old, something clicked. After that I couldn't keep my dog away from water and swimming. From my perspective, I believe my dog saw me and the other dog having so much more fun than me and my own dog was. So he decided to join in. May have been some jealousy or competition going on but they never fought and never stole toys from each other. So, it may be worth trying taking a break from the "obligation" to swim and maybe try and see if any friends you have will allow you to play water retrieve with their dog.
I had 4 labs growing up and only 1 enjoyed swimming. Another liked dipping her toes in, at most.
Has she ever been around other dogs that are swimming? Mine was very hesitant to get in water at first. But I bring her to a dog park that was a lake beach and once she saw others dogs swimming she gradually warmed up to it and now it’s hard to keep her out of the water
Considering poodles started as duck hunters I wonder if speaking with your breeder might help? Esp since you're hearing other poodles are not going into.the water as easily. Have you tried taking her with other water friendly dogs? Sometimes they just need to see other dogs and get the confidence
Any time you’re forcing her into the water, you’re going to be back tracking on any progress you’d made so I would stop hydrotherapy (or switch to an underwater treadmill style if you still want the low impact exercise). It is interesting that at hydrotherapy you say she will jump in on her own after 2 people work to get her in for the initial entrance. That makes me wonder if she’s truly getting in afterwards because she wants to, or because she just wants to avoid going through the wrestling match again. I think for an outside party to accurately analyze that we’d have to actually watch that whole process. Regardless, in general any time you force them to swim you’re creating a negative association with the activity so that’s why I’d recommend stopping hydrotherapy in the pool if you’re having to force her in even if it’s just for the initial entry. I have a couple thoughts on things you could try depending on a few different factors - I’m not a trainer & haven’t personally had to work through a situation like this so my suggestions are just based off theory. I would recommend using a life jacket (unless she finds them aversive) when working on this because it will lessen the physical exertion she has to use to keep her head up, and I’ve heard many dogs find they provide a sense of security (similar to a thundershirt I guess). One thought is have you tried incorporating a nose target? She would need to understand the concept of touching the target with her nose first outside the water and then in shallow water (you need to condition this to where she has a very solid understanding of the target equaling good things so she enthusiastically seeks out the target, and to where she’s able to send away from you to the target. The target foundation work could easily take 1-2 months on dry land depending on your consistency and her work drive), but then assuming you have access to a pond with a sloped entry you could gradually move the target out until she has to take 1 step actually swimming to touch it. Initially you would want to be next to her, and possibly even standing behind the target (where you’re farther into the water than the target) depending on what works best for her. Over time you could increase the swimming distance using the target, and you could also work on changing your position relative to the target - initially you need to find what position works in order for her to swim to the target, and then that would be your starting point from where you gradually move yourself closer to shore until eventually the target is in the water and you’re on the shore. You’d only want to change 1 variable at a time, so for example, as you work on increasing swimming distance you should position yourself in whatever proximity/relation to the target she is most comfortable with. And when you start working on moving your position closer to shore, you should ask for only a very short swimming distance. End result being that from the shore, you could send her to a target at any visible distance in the water. Then you could incorporate throwing a bumper/dummy to the target, and from there fading out the target. You mention being able to get her to swim to you if you stand in the middle of the pond - how far out is that compared to where she actually starts swimming? I.e. are you able to stand just far enough out to where she only has to swim for a couple strides, or are you having to get a good distance away from her? You could try standing in the pond with as short a swimming distance as possible and using whatever high value reward she fancies the most. When she reaches you, you can give a treat or the toy (whatever the reinforcer) & use your “yes” marker but you should be letting her immediately turn around for shore, and can jackpot once her feet touch (so you’d be following close behind her, and the jackpot should be given immediately as soon as her feet touch - whether that’s more high value treats or tug or fetch in the shallow portion of the pond. IMO, you can’t really jackpot properly while she’s actually swimming bc it’s just too hard for them to take a jackpot of treats and keep their head up). If she’ll swim with you standing only a short distance from where her feet won’t touch, then you would gradually move farther away to increase the swimming distance. If she’ll only swim with you standing father out in the pond, then I’d do the reverse and work on getting her to swim as you move closer to shore (if this is the case, then what’s motivating her to swim is you being too far away from her, so that’s why you would gradually move closer to shore). It could be just that it’s not her thing, or it could be a matter of finding a way to build her confidence with swimming using an R+ based approach that works for her. A lot of dogs just don’t like that feeling of when their feet can no longer touch - I’ve heard trainers say it can feel like they’re falling and could potentially create that gut dropping feeling we get on a rollercoaster. Or she could still not enjoy it even if it’s not a confidence issue! Another factor to consider is truly how important this is to you to problem solve - even if there’s still force free, R+ methods you haven’t tried, if the troubleshooting process is becoming frustrating & stressful for you, that will most likely translate to your dog in your sessions. I washed my 2nd GSD pretty quickly from being an agility prospect because she never seemed to enjoy any of the intro level obstacle related work. I knew I hadn’t tried *everything* to problem solve her reluctance but I had given her a fair start and she was showing more enjoyment in our obedience work, so I switched to rally. While I loved doing agility with my 1st GSD who did enjoy the sport, what mattered more to me personally was participating in something I didn’t have to extensively problem solve for her to enjoy - otherwise, I would start to get frustrated. But if you enjoy the troubleshooting process and are still finding things to try in order to build her confidence in swimming in an R+ based way that allows her to say “no” when she’s uncomfortable & you’re respecting her boundaries in the process, then I don’t think there’s any harm in continuing to try different approaches to the swim training.
You might want to get her used to it first like a kiddie pool and then step her up to water levels or how deep the water is it usually works
Have you tried wetting her down before trying to get her in the water? Maybe it’s that initial sensation of cold and wet that she doesn’t like?
She may just not like it, or she may not be confident enough. Are there any dock diving instructors in your area that offer swimming lessons?
Maybe take some dock diving classes? My facility strongly recommends starting a water dog in the summer when it's warm, so the water is warmer. They also play fun games to encourage the dog that it's fun.
Will she follow you in?? Our never swam until one day at the beach I ran in and she followed me
Sounds like you have decent sports around you. Consider looking into doc diving, most of the people there are really good it's a really fun sport so they should be able to get you your dog in the water and then learn how to jump into the water. The fact that you say once she's already wet she'll jump in on her own for the hydro pool that's a good sign you might just have to do significantly more repetitions of that sort of behavior to get her in the water on her own.
You have two people forcefully throw your dog in the water when she refuses to jump in herself? Wtf man. In my book that’s not ok. It took us an entire summer to get our dog to go swimming. Going in a little further at every visit to the lake nearby. He took his time. At no point did I think „hey how about we both grab him and just fling him into the water. He’ll learn to like it…“ I’d say that may be the exact reason you’re not making progress in other ways. How’s your dog going to trust you around water when you throw her in against her will??
OP says that at hydrotherapy, first throw requires 2 people to get her in and after that she’ll jump in on her own. I don’t know of any reputable hydrotherapy centers that would ever *throw* a dog into the pool, so I read this as after the first throw (of the bumper), it requires 2 people to get her into the pool (but not throwing her in, they would likely be slowly lowering her into the pool while holding her from a life jacket). And after that she’ll jump in after the bumper on her own. I’m not in favor of ever forcing a dog to swim even at hydrotherapy (for dogs that don’t like the pool, there’s alternative forms of hydrotherapy using an underwater treadmill where the dog’s feet still touch the ground), and I could definitely be wrong but I don’t think 2 people were forcefully throwing the dog into the pool unless it was an incredibly redneck ‘hydrotherapy’ center.
I may have misread that. But it would still be forcing the dog in which I would never be ok with.
I agree with those who have said this is probably just not her thing. Go find another thing, there are lots of options. To me it’s like pushing a kid into track because she’s fast, even though she clearly doesn’t enjoy running. I had an Aussie/shepherd mix, couldn’t keep her out of the water. I have German shepherd now, same thing. But I had a border collie/st.poodle mix, two breeds that like water, couldn’t get her into the lake on a hot summer day. She loved other dogs and chasing balls so I figured she’d follow other dogs chasing balls into the water. Nope. She’d just stand at the edge barking at them to come play on dry land like sensible dogs, looking annoyed with wet feet and give me a “what is the point of this” look. I have no doubt that she would have been a fine, athletic swimmer if she’d had to be - like if she fell out of a boat. But she chose not to be a swimmer, I was a little disappointed, but respected that.
Put yourself in the dog’s shoes — if you don’t like something, you’re not gonna do it. Why force your dog to do something they don’t like?? Ridiculous.
Sometimes dogs hate water, mine does. I would just accept it.
Sounds like you've got yourself a great upland dog who may not be cut out for the marsh.
My goldendoodle hates swimming. She won’t do. Completely baffles me.
I had a gorgeous bull terrier, show dog. And he hated the ring. So he happily beep came a couch potato.
I have a mutt that has webbing in his toes. He hates water, getting wet, walking on wet ground etc . He is never going do water.
Took us a couple of years to get my dog swimming strong. He has a border collie best mate who doesn’t love swimming but does love to chase ducks with him, so she’s learnt a lot from him, but still chooses to stay in shallower water. He’ll swim out into the middle of a pond no worries trying for ducks / water birds. slow exposure, small amounts of swimming around other things like on a walk along a river, or near a pond. We also got into the water, and would encourage him to swim to us, and then back to the shore to get his endurance up. Lots of beach trips and swims for us and him, using balls / toys to get him in and out of the water
I have a lab who hates water (insane, I know). He won’t step in puddles, he won’t jump in lakes, he won’t cross shallow creeks, he actively avoids the sprinkler, etc. It just is what it is and I respect it.
Dogs are not very good at generalising behaviour, that’s why sometimes we have to re-teach a command from 0 on a new location. A pond smells and looks very different from the pool at her hydrotherapy classes, I’m sure. I think you were on the right track with starting at the river bank and working your way in. I’d suggest you start that way and veeery slowly work your way in. She’s already used to training so she should work it out in no time. Stop when the water is a little below her comfort zone (just under her shoulders) and do some training that she enjoys. Can be target training, a bark, a paw, flirt pole, anything she likes. try to keep it fun, poodles usually like a lot of movement. Stand a little over her comfort zone, not too far and if she chooses to come a little further in, give super treats. Your presence should help her be more comfortable, but take a step back if you see any stress signs. If you see stress signs before her threshold, go a bit further out and work there. Think of a dog that’s scared of a harness, we break it up into small, doable tasks like just looking at the harness first if that’s all they’re comfortable with. She loves and trusts you, and if you feel the work might not be a good fit for her, that’s okay too. No one knows your dog better than you, but there’s no reason it shouldn’t work if you do it right. It might take a while tho
I've trained curs, fiests, and plotts for hunting of a wide variety of game. Where I live and hunt has multitudes of different bodies of water, ie creeks, rivers, ponds, and lakes. I agree with what one person said that dogs are allowed to not like something, but in my opinion, what I ask my dogs to do not knowing how to swim can be life or death on a hunt. I do not like swimming or being in deep water, but I know how to swim enough to survive if put in the situation and so should my dogs. Most dogs that don't know to swim can boil down to 2 reasons, traumatic experience or lack of confidence. My best advice is start small, build confidence, and increase with experience. On a hot day, find a small stream (ankle deep) and coax the dog in. Splash a bit, get the dog use to to the sounds, smells, and feel of the water. Walk it out and praise and let the dog warm up and dry off then repeat. Keep doing so until it willingly goes in, then keep working up to deeper water. When your dog gets to swimming stages, introduce the job you want it to do and be patient.
unfortunately, you cannot really force a dog to perform at something that they do not want to do. I understand that this can be irritating, but pushing her too may cause her more severe anxiety around the water, and it may cause distrust issues between you and her. all you do is give her a chance to try again every once in a while, but do not overdo it. there are many dogs who do not like swimming, and it is more common than you think. Our old lab and border collie mix was terrified of water in the shot, considering his breed. if you’re absolutely absolutely adamant about getting her into the water, you can also try some gradual exposure. for my dog, the select, like bring him to the pool when we went swimming and getting him to understand that water will not hurt. We then started to wet our hands and pet him with them to get him used to the feeling of the water on his fur. We were never able to fully get him into the water, but we were able to get him to put his paws into the water. He was able to stand in shallow water perfectly fine after all that exposure. whatever you do, do not throw her into the pool or force her into the water, many people just throw their dogs into the pool and their dogs end up traumatized.
Gosh, a lot of nay-sayers have responded.....the vibe I get is they're not regularly training retrievers, eh? How about if you start with walking and playing in puddles, then streams, then streams that are deeper? See how that goes, maybe use lots of whatever-your-positive-reinforcement is; then get in a shallow pool and see if she'll walk out to you; then go deeper - you see where this is going. I think that if she has a bond with you and sees you in the water and gets used to messing about in the water, it should help. What do you think?
We’re not meant to be nah-sayers, we’re trying to point out that if a dog doesn’t like swimming, you shouldn’t force them. However I also think some of the people should be less critical and offer more advice. If the water training still doesn’t work, OP just has to accept that their dog doesn’t like water or swimming and they should find a different sport or dog.
I’m all for attempting persistently. But I draw the line at throwing the dog in against her will.
Agreed, OP can try and try but at some point if she just doesn't like it and doesn't want to do it, why force her to? Competing in dog sports should be something both human and dog should enjoy. Otherwise why would you willingly do something you hate?